Andrew Luck and Dwight Gooden

Published Feb 17, 2014, 5:00 AM

In 2012, Andrew Luck was in his final year at Stanford University when he learned he was the top NFL draft pick. Luck, a self-proclaimed nerd, talks with Alec about going from being an unknown high school football hero to replacing his childhood idol, Peyton Manning. Off the field, Luck is passionate about travel, architecture and movies.

Former MLB pitcher Dwight Gooden earned the Rookie of the Year Award in 1984. He was 19 years old with a blistering fastball and a notoriously deceptive curve ball. His outstanding first three years in Major League Baseball were soon replaced by very public battles with alcohol and cocaine which continued for much of his professional career. At 40, Gooden served ten months in a state prison for drug-related charges. That was a decade ago. More recently he published a book, Doc: A Memoir. Gooden watches football now and hasn't touched a baseball or a drink in years. 

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I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing, Peyton Manny Love. Peyton's still a big fan of Peyton. Uh, Steve McNair. My mom was very strict, you know, very directly stuff when my dad kind of getting a pass with a lot of things along as I was playing baseball. A few of us can do what professional athletes do, and even fewer athletes begin their pro careers with the immediate success of my guests. Today, I'll talk with former pitcher Dwight Gooden to hear about his historic rookie season in and how his major league career was affected by his struggles with drugs and alcohol. But first, Andrew Luck, currently enjoying his second season in the National Football League. We're the first pick in the two thousand and twelve NFL drafts the Indianapolis could select Andrew Luck. Luck was hired to replaced one of his heroes, Peyton Manning, as quarterback of the Indianapolis Colts. Many doubted that the Stanford graduate could live up to the enormous hype generated by that first round pick, but Luck delivered, setting a new NFL record for most passing yards by a rookie Andrew Luck, a self described nerd, is nothing if not level headed when he talks about navigating the transitions from high school to college to pro football. They're definitely large differences along the way. But but I also know a lot of the challenges are the same. I think, fresh on my mind still, you know, finishing a rookie year, you know what what what what was similar about rookie year to being a sophomore in high school and starting on varsity, you know, wants to to being in college and started as a sophomore as well. I think you know the same things presents of how as a young kid. You know, how is a fifteen year old kid do you play with? Eighteen year old? How is it? How is the nineteen year o kid do you play with? Is that what you did? And? Yeah, how was it? It's weird? You know, you want to remember what do you remember about high school ball? So I just wanted to keep my mouth shut. You in Houston, in Houston, which they do have like a somewhat of a religious cult following, you know of high school football entype, it truly is, and you know it's sensationalized a bit with the movies, in the in the books, but people get into I mean we had we had fifteen thousand people watching games, you know, for for for a bunch of high school kids. Yeah, but but I do remember, you know, being a rookie, thinking back to you know, being a sophomone, how how do you how do you earn the respect to the guys older than you? You know, how do you how do you go in there? And so would you see that each step of the way if he was proving yourself to people who when you show up the vets are there, or the guys who have a few more seasons under their belt and you want to show them you belong there. No, absolutely, I think describe it was like when you went from Houston to Stanford the same thing, you know, one it's it's it was. It was fun for me to be out in California and you were a scholar. You did very well in school. I did all right. I managed to get by. I studied architecture, which was fun for me and which I enjoyed, which I don't much better I think on projects than writing papers, you know. So so I'm glad I studied something I enjoyed. But do you think that that kind of pursued academically, like something that involves geometry and math and so forth, and measurements help you as a quarterback. I don't know. People have asked me to compare the to it. I you know, it can't hurt, but you know, realistically, how much could could solid a bath problem help a football game? It might be just intrinsic. How you just see things. You know, when that guy's going deep over the middle, maybe you something this looks like the Louve to me. And then when you went to Stanford, what was that like? You showed up there? When you talk about that idea of showing up and proving yourself, what was it like for you? First year was great? Didn't play? Red shirt? And which was which was? Which was difficult describe for people exactly how red shirting works. So red shirting is a process work. You know, you go to school and everybody has four years of eligibility to play. Uh, but you can red shirt a year. You still practice with the team, you still do everything with the team. You're just not allowed to play in a game. So it's theoretically you can another year. Yeah, and then you go to school for you know, being school for five years, so it gives you a year too, and you red shooted your first year. I recruited my first year. I wasn't ready to play and I needed to get bigger, faster, stronger, you know, physically wise and also mentally just catch up today. So when you come to a school like that, when they take you there and they and they recruited you, correct and when they recruit you to come, they recruit you. The red shirt thing was something they had in mind. So at that level, at the Stanford level, they have you come and they say we're gonna bring you here and we're going to develop you for the first year. Yeah, you know, and some guys in my class, we're we're good enough to play, you know as freshman. But but I know in my recruiting process that that was a thought that came up. They want muscle up and get stronger, and and and mentally too, I think mentally catch up to the playbook. Having to learn that and it definitely helped and I enjoyed it. And what was that experience like because someone said that to me once, They said that, you know, you go from high school and you're a dominant player in high school. Then you go to college and you're in a room full of high school dominant players. It's humbling. I'll say that. You get knocked off your high horse very very quickly. Everybody's in all so you go from being in you know, the top dogs probably starting on every you're the king. Yeah, everything you've ever played in. The cheerleaders want a date you. You know, everybody. You go to college and you're just you're carrying somebody else is bad exactly. So you read shirt that year and then you come back the second year and I'm assuming you were stronger and you had development, and did you and you felt better? You felt strong? No, I think I put on like pounds, you know, and my mind was working much quicker when you know, on the football side of things, we're getting ready, getting ready. And what happens in that second year coach hardball, who's who's Who's coach game Jim, he gave me a shot. I got got to play in all their games. I got hurt the last game of the season. And did you get smacked around a lot? I mean, you're playing football at Stanford. What was that like for you? That that threat every day and it's a pure adrenaline when you say to yourself, I can't think about that. I can't afford to think about that or every minute you're out there. Do you think these guys, man, they really if they hit me, it's really gonna hurt. Like no, I think that. You can't. You can't let yourself think about you have to. I think as soon as you start getting skittish about about being hit, then then your play is gonna plummet. There's a little bit of pride involved in it too. I think as a football player, at least at least in my mind, I sort of enjoy getting hit every now and then and being able to stand back up and say, Okay, you hit me whatever. Man, you know I'm getting back off, not downright. You didn't get me down right, So so that I think, I think for a lot of players there's a bit of that. What did Hardball give you was a coach? What would you say distinguished him as a coach? I think he builds great relationships with players, everybody on the staff and he and he's he's an unbelievable motivator. On game day, you always felt like you know the guy was gonna you know, run through hell and back with you if you had to, you felt like you had your back, if you wanted to be in a brawl in an alley you wanted, you want to coach hardball with you? What's it like when you leave SAIM because you you you red shirted your first year and then played and you finished the standpord. Yeah, I didn't leave three years. So I graduated. I had one year of eligibility left, but and you didn't and it was time to go. It was time to How did you know it was time to go? Uh? You know my degree? I got my degree, which really didn't make any sense to stay. Yeah, it didn't. I had I had enough fun. And then what happened? And then tell me where you're sitting when when you find out what's going on for you? NFL was how does that develop? Yeah, it's it's a it's it's actually sort of long process. And I was drafted before I graduated from school. So you finish your college season. I took a we were on the quarter system at Stanford, so I took the winter quarter off to go train and prepare that they have a combine uh where in Indianapolis, which you know it was funny enough was where I ended up. The combine is it a really interesting weird sort of dynamic where they fly all these players and they have all the coaches, they have all the team doctors and it's three days and you're there pick and you can Okay, this is before So this is a chance for all the teams to meet the players that to see the combines NFL one. It's not just Indie, it's it's his team, it's it's league. It's all the teams flying in with all their personnel. And I'll stay and then the players sort of cycle through. It's were like cattle in a meat market. Yeah. I remember, you know, walking up on stage with nothing but my little skimp he's on and they announced, you know, and Victoria's Secret runway Shop. You're on a stage with strength coaches, head coaches and all these coaches sitting and bleachers around you that that you walk up in the middle and it's you know, Andrew Luck Stanford University, you know, six four, two thirty five, and guys are there with ads going I don't like the ratio of USS to his rib cage. I don't like that they don't let that rib ratio. God knows what they're saying that God, and then you turn around, you and you walk off. That's just one of the you know guys where you're getting a hundred X rays on every part of your body. They move your your knee this way, but which which makes sense because there's so much money invested if I teams and the money. Yeah, so so that was an interesting experience. Then you sort of then to leave the comment. And I had I had a fairly good sense that I would be drafted number one by Indianapolis just from the signals I was getting from the team and other things, and I it's you know, how did you feel? I mean, you knew it was gonna happen kind of would everybody let you know that in advance? Everybody put the cats out of the bag. But when it happens, at the moment it happened, did you just feel great you would number one in the draft that year? Man? Yeah, I felt on top of the world. I'm not gonna lie now as soon as you are you the draft is over. I would assume there's a euphoria, but you snapped right out of it because like it's down to business now. Yeah, there wasn't you four? And then I wish it would would have been down to business. I had to go back to school and finish up. And you try sitting in a lecture. You know, after you've been you've been drafted by a team, you have a job, you know where you're going. I honestly, I honestly don't feel sorry for you, because I would. I can't think of anything I'd like more than to go back to Stanford having been the number one tracking. So you go back? How long you're back there? Back for maybe a couple more months to finish that last So now when do your report? Uh? So we report late July? Was when training camp starts? When you know the actual that's the formal training, formal training. You show up for your first pro training cap. Now you are in the center ring in a high school, in college and named Big ten and it's professional football. What's that like? I mean, does your ass tightened just a little bit? These guys are huge, they are they are the apex of physical freaks. You know, there are some guys that that are three hundred pounds, that are running faster than you know, running than your high school running back, that are just that are just absolutely physical, and you know, some of the guys you're walking along a room, you're you're playing with thirty five year olds, thirty six year old with with you know, with three kids in it in the house, and you know, a bunch of rookies are three years old that I don't know right from left. So so it's it's it's a different dynamic than college, where you're sort of, well, everybody's appear, yeah, with you with your your buddies, you're going back to the dorm, you know, you're hanging out. And the NFL it's different, which makes it fun when you win and come together as a team, you know, because you really do have so many different types of guys. And I would imagine that your teammates. I mean, on one hand, people in the pro like if you go to college, it's assumed under ordinary circumstances, certainly things can change, but under ordinary circumstances, you're going to be there for the four years. This is your team, this is your this is your family. But in the pros where people move on, where the teams have only their loyalty to the players only extends so far do you walk in there and people feel you out and you earn your way into that family or do they treat you like family and everybody coheses right away. No, it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in the first day. I will say that people gotta get to know you. Yeah, you gotta get you know, especially during training camp where you're gonna have you know, a hundred guys that are in training camp and then one day you wake up and look and there's only fifty three guys left. You know, those cut days are very sad days because you see buddies go, You see guys, you feel relationships, you know, guys you admired maybe yeah, absolutely, guys you looked up to, guys that helped you out, you know when you first walked in the door, and then they're gone and that fifty three players, that's when everything starts to cohes. Yeah, I think I think that's when that's when you come together a little more. But but still, you know, even guys are traded in the middle of the season, you know, guys are cut, Still guys are picked up. So it's it is it's a lot different, you know, just to what you said that than the the you know, you know you're gonna be in college for four years. You know who's in your class, you know who's you know, you know the guys on the team. Familiarity, Yes, absolutely. Now one thing I think about when I think about the NFL is this idea of the biggest, strongest, fastest men hitting each other in this very violent game. And the rules have been changed in order to protect players. The equipment has evolved. Obviously, there's a lot of discussion about concussions and so forth, over a lot of brain injury research and issues, and people donating the brains of their deceased suicide victims, a little a lot of heavy duty stuff. But I want to ask you when you go out there. I mean, it's a competitive game and people want to win. But at the same time, guys don't necessarily want to hurt each other the way they wouldn't want to get hurt either. Do you find it's a weird balance of those two because football is as violent now on one hand as it was before, but because equipment changes and rule changes, it seemed more violent back then. You know, I don't think guys are any less aggressive when it when it comes to hitting. I no, No, it doesn't. And I think, you know, maybe there's a thought too that all these these equipment changes and and and you feel safer in it, so so you feel like you can hit harder. But there's also I think, you know, guys are are being taught, especially at a young age now too. You know how to tackle correctly, how to how to and I think there is a mutual respect between players where you know you're not going to try and take out someone's achilles or a cl You know, some guys maybe do you know, I don't. I don't know. Some guys play very aggressive and things happen. We understand, you know, we know what we sign up for. I think when you when you play football, and I like it and I love it. And as a quarterback, you know, I'm on the wrong side of the hit. You know, I don't ever get to dish it out per se, But you know that's fine with me. Right. Let's let's talk about quarterbacking. Yeah, let's talk about what it's like to have that job where I played touch football with my friends until I was forty years old. We played every weekend during a season in the fall in New York in Central Park. And then that game moved to Los Angeles because almost all those guys I played with were my UH colleagues and the entertainment business, and of course, the difference between a sandlot game, the difference between a flag game and a bunch of geezers playing football. The difference between high school and college is the speed and the velocity of the game. And you drop back to pass, and on average, how much time do you have to throw the ball? I think a little between three and four seconds. You have that much time if the play is going in the perfect world, so you have three to four seconds to to read the defense, to drop back and ascertain who you're going to throw the ball to, who's open, who's more likely going to be open, because sometimes you're throwing the ball to someone anticipating they're gonna be open. Once the ball gets there, you throw the ball to a spot very often, unless it's a broken play and they come back to it's a come back. And then someone's improvising. What percentage of plays would you say, do you throw the ball at a spot that's a preordained route, and how many plays is it more improvised? What's the ratio? Well, every place is called you know hopefully it's not to have him for ries. You know you're gonna then you're up against the pro defense. Yeah, it breaks down probably a third of the time, a third of the time, half of the time. Colts fans don't care about the ratio. They just want Andrew Luck to bring a championship back to Indianapolis, and he stands a good chance. People say he bears a strong resemblance to Peyton Manning, the quarterback for the Colts for fourteen seasons, and one of Andrew Luck's own role models, big command and everything, never quit, never quit, was like a general out there, three minutes left, we're down by eighteen points, so much and he seemed like he knew where everybody was going all the time. There's no surprises for him. In a minute, Andrew Luck talks about going to the Manning family training camp in Louisiana when he was fourteen. I'm Alec Baldwin and here's the thing. Take a listen to our archive more in depth and honest conversations with artists, policymakers and pundits like George will Sports and particularly not baseball. Then, because it's a rich sediment of numbers, it was one of the first things a young person could peg up with adults on. But as you could know as much about Jimmy Fox as your father did. I'm love jim you know I love I wanted to be a lifeguard. I wanted to be a gymnast. I wanted to work on the bars, ropes were I loved all that stuff. More from George Will and Debbie Reynolds at Here's the Thing, Dot Org. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Andrew Luck grew up in a football family. His father was an NFL quarterback for the Houston Oilers. But Luck isn't always hold up in a screening room studying films of his football heroes in action. At the end of last season, he headed to the Sundance Film Festival. Growing up, he lived in London and Frankfort, and he still travels overseas any chance he gets. But Andrew Luck knew early on that he wanted to play ball. He attended the Manning Passing Academy in lou Louisiana, run by NFL quarterbacks Peyton and Eli Manning and their father, Archie. So you know that the Manning family obviously sort of the first family of quarterbacks you know in the in this league. You know. So I was in eighth grade in Houston, and uh, I went to the camp as a as a camper, and this was this was hell. It's in Louisiana. It used to be Hammond. Louisiana is where I went as a camper. And then you stayed, stayed in these dorms. Looked like a Soviet era, like old Gray, you know, like like the summertime. It was so summer in Louisiana and you're in ye cinder blocks of your character exactly. But we had a blast, and I think I was on cloud nine when Archie Manning came up and said, how you Dylan Sign? I played with your dad. You know, I'm in heaven. Shoot me. Now I've lived. And then then you go to you go to college whatever, and then all these college quarterbacks to come down and be counselors, and I think it's a great thing. It's like it's a great way to meet, you know, thirty other quarterbacks around around you know, the n C A A, and then get to know them. So I went down to the past my last two years of college and you know, I got to know the Manning family obviously a little better through that and a bunch of bunch of quarterbacks from front from college. When you want to work on your passing skills, but I don't mean the timing and reading offenses, the mechanics of you throw. What's your primary set of exercises and work you Did you have a coach when you got to the pros? Did they come in as they often do and dissect your throwing motion and get into the mechanics if you're throwing again? Not not in the pros. Yeah, I think I think there's a thought that if you've made it this far, don't don't change your throw on motion. You've done millions, but not like Tebow where they're coming to you. You're not Tebow. But I'm saying people have the assumption then the pros they want to strip you down and say, okay, let's start all over again. But they didn't need to. They didn't feel they needed to re teach you how to throw the football now. Absolutely not, which I'm very full four because I don't think I would have handled it very well, And I think I think quarterbacks are are very particular about their own motion and a little bit anal. You know, stress is the way I throw, This is the way Because what muscles do you think you had to develop and if you wanted to improve when you were younger, when you added pounds, when you wanted to muscle up and strengthen. Not because I said that. Joe Montana once what I was doing a film and Montana came to visit the director on the set and I had the quickest, most fleeting conversation. It wasn't very real. I said to him, I go, what was your strength training? He said, I avoided weights as much as possible. I didn't want to get muscled up. He said. I took medical tubing like hose and I put a strap in a doorway and I just did the throwing motion over and over, you know, like a thousand times with this tension thing, just to strengthen the rotation. What exercises do you think it to strengthen your legs in your back as much as your upper body. I think I think your core and your asses can shoot a cannon out of a canoe. There were so much powers generated it, uh, And I think that's that's a lot of leg training. A lot of leg training, a lot of training or run training. I hate running, but yeah, you have to do. But I think it's more weight and just rotation. It's almost like golfers. You know, you're VeryE boxing and boxing you're very one sided. It's almost like throwing a right cross, you know, because you throw that punch, you're gonna punch absolutely and and you become very one sided. You're always torking in the same direction, so making sure your left so making sure you're evening out, you know, your right side of the body per se. But but I I and that's something that I that I learned more you know of in college and then the least you know how important your lower body is to throwing. I would play in sand a lot pickup games with my friends, and of course when you play for fun with guys when you're when I'm in my thirties and forties, just for fun. Half the guys bring their own favorite ball and the ball is deflated or inflated to the level they prefer, the ball is scuffed to the level they prefer. And when you pick up a ball in the NFL, forget about weather conditions. Is the ball always a Crisp Waxy brand new ball or do they allow you to treat the ball the way you want to for your preference. I hate the Crisp Waxy. I can't. I can't stand it. There's a our. Our equipment managers for the Colts, Frog Tea, and Danny, the three great guys that work with their quarterbacks, they have it. They have a top secret protocol for for for them to treat the ball. Treating the balls, it's secret. They won't tell me. I don't think they tell Peyton when he like, I know what it is by the women to tell you they pee on it. It's their own urine. They use their own urine to strip the waxy film off. Who is the baseball player that used to pee on his hands to avoid Callous's There was a Cubs player like yeah, but I know I've seen that they have a patented top secret like the one of the Coca Cola, and then the football is treated. But you do treat the ball, you do, and you sat out of the box. It's not out of the box. I've seen different stages of it, Like I know, I know they put the balls in the the sauna for like a couple of minutes that they're allowing to do something about that allows them to treat the ball. They did. Every team get to use their own ball, Like when when you come out on offense, we go get the box, we go open the crate of your opponents balls. Everyone brings their own ball on the field as long as it's the approved ball. Yes, and and for what I understand, it used to not be that way. It used to be like there's a certain you know, all the balls for Dame Day were open an hour before and each team use the same ball. But I think, uh, I think Peyton and and Tom Brady sort of this was before my time. I was let it, let a coalition against that and got it change where teams can use you know, what about the inflation level of the ball. Does the ball have to be inflated to a certain pount. I think it does, and referees check it and they mark the balls off before the balls that we approved in one way, but you're allowed to treat the exterior of the ball. That's amazing. So when you're there and you're throwing the ball, is it completely unconscious when you throw the ball and you think you're ineffective. Do you sometimes say to yourself, even at the pro level, that you've got to go back to a basic You gotta remember you're bringing the ball in behind your ear. What are you gonna do? What's the firing sequence in your mind of throwing a pass? I think you don't want to think about you know, you don't, And that's what I shouldn't say. Ever, when when you if you if you're going on a string and balls are dying on you and you see why what if you're having a shitty day and you're not throwing the ball? But yeah, and I think that that's when you when you when you maybe not during the day, you have the refresh button, you look at the film and you say, what am I doing different than than than you see? Sometimes you did? Yeah, I think you do differently. I think I look, you know, you're dropping the ball too low. It's and it's elong dating your whole wind up. You know, it's almost like a picture now instead of a quarterback, you know, instead of throwing a football. And that's what's causing you to be late on all your routes. You know, makes you know so so that that we can practice you're gonna work on keeping that ball, you know, higher and and and maybe shortening that that motion. Uh So I think it's you're still tweak it every now and then if if it's not working out, if you feel like, you know, it's inhibiting you from being better. Um. For fans like myself, when we watch you play pro football and you're doing your job and you're just and that ball out there, you're you're you're you're hitting that ball first downs, whatever, and the other guy drops the ball. Did he come back and apologize to you every now and then? Different guys are different. Uh you know, I I probably apologize too much for throwing interceptions to the guys on the line because I know they get fed up when they're blocking their butts off against some werewolf of a defensive end and they're doing a great job. I know, yeah, their quarterback throws an interception, Good job, QB. But you know, some guys apologize, some guys don't. It's just the nature of the game that we're humans. You know, human errors occur. Being only human did not get in the way of Andrew lux record breaking first NFL season. My next guest also had an extraordinary first season, twenty nine years ago. Dwight Gooden is known to baseball fans as the once brilliant nineteen year old pitching phenom from Tampa, Florida. He had a blinding fastball and a notoriously deceptive curve ball. Those two pitches earned him the Rookie of the Year award in four In five, he won the Cy Young as best pitcher in the National League. In eight six, he led the Mets to one of their best seasons ever, ending with the World Series championship. Gooden still had some winning seasons after that, but nothing matched those first three years. Instead, his public battles with alcohol and cocaine became the dominant story of his career, leading sports historians to write about what might have been rather than what was. At the very least, Dwight Gooden's addiction ruined what should have been the greatest day of his life, the eight six World Series win. After the game was over, I'm celebrating the clubhouse with my teammates. Then i going to bike in a trainer's room. I called my dad. We talked about the game, and he's happy and with celebrating. And then a night call went right to my friend who know the diller when my friend was the go to guy, told him I was coming by the later and my goal was to go by there, get some drugs, and meet my teammates at local bar after that. But unfortunately, you know what happened. Don't don't allow that, right, So your friend, a friend that you knew, called the dealer for you to tee up the ball for you to go score. Well, what it was is, um, I wanted a lot of stuff. I wanted to party and celebrate. Unfortunately, go to the house and projects in Long Island with the dealer, with the dealer, so I'm in there, what about ten people I probably know too. That's a friend from Tampa and the dealer. So We're sitting there partying and having good time. And now I'm thinking I'll be here for maybe an hour of them and cut out. But once those rails hit the mirror, Yeah, once your started, Yeah, that was always my track record, and I'm just gonna do a little bit. Then three days later you're doing the same thing. Dwight Gooden has been sober since two thousand and eleven, when he went on celebrity rehab, and earlier this year he published a deeply personal book entitled doc a memoir, which chronicles everything from his complicated relationship with his father to his success on the field, to his drug abuse and the toll it took on him. You come from an error when uh, drugs predominate as much as alcohol or alcohol is one drug on a menu of drugs, because alcohol certainly is a drug. As you would you acknowledge that, yes, alcohol is definite drug. And the error I was in what like you said before me, was heavy drinking, you know in the seventies what have you, and probably pot from right here my errors basically, you know, cocaine and drinking. The alcohol is available and every club house you go to, whether it's on the road or at home, and even at home. And when you say alcohol was available, what was the kind of culture of that meaning when the game was over all professional ball players and management and coaching kind of acknowledged that when the game is over, we we we gave it our best for Pro Bowl players and we've earned a drink and everybody has a drink. So they had a full bar there. Yeah, pretty much it as normal like you go into the lounge where you have the food, you have the water, and drinks, and you got the beer and then the private stats and the bike with the hard stuff, especially like at the day game, was staying because you want to way to put the traffic that down and we just sit around talking baseball, talking about the games, and just drinking. You started your professional career when you were how old my professional drafted at seventeen, played a year in the half in the monitors. It's amazing at nineteen. And what was amazing was at the game. If we're on the road, there was always one of the veteran players say, Doc, you pitching tomorrow. If I said no, it's okay, you're out with us. And I remembers one time I did a commercial Pepsi commercial with Catfish Hunter and when Chicago at the day game, we go to this bar and the commercial comes on and the bartower look at commercially looking at me looking at the commercial. I think it goes. I don't think you don't have to be in here, you know, so you could hang around here, but I can't start any more. Ohol, what are the traps of famous? Everybody knows who you are, and then they know who you are in every level, But so how many games did you pitch the first season when you win the first season, I think I had about thirty two starts. You had thirty two starts. Yes, so they were all in on you. They wanted you. It was there, Yes, definitely, you were. You were in the rotation. Yeah, I was in the rotation. I got a seventeen wins, seventeen and nine, made the All Star team my first year, led the league in strikeouts, and it was amazing because, as you mentioned, when when I first got there, it wasn't too much of expectations. But after the All Star break, there was a lot of expectations. It was more seats, I mean more fans in the seats two days I would pitch. It was more media. Did you feel How did you feel at that time? I felt great, you know, because I felt get you high. It did, and then when you're off, you want to maintain that high. How do you do that? Well? My first year, it was definitely a drawing rush. Having all the fans they're teering for you, and you're striking out that you're winning, and you're winning. It was no better feeling than that pitch against a lot of guys you analyzed just a year prior to that, and then in the next year, I have an even better year. I have a career year, and you know, do you go out there, it's almost like, be did you do differently? The second year, We're just more confident. It was more confident reed, more like I had another year experience on my belt. And Garrett Carter came over that year. He was the all star catcher for me, which is a big plus for me. What did Carter bring for you as a catcher that helped you? I think the way he communicated with me, he didn't want to just win. He want to dominate and me even though I wanted to dominate. But like say, if I was winning a game to nothing and then or fifteen nothing and I started just messing around with pitches, he will come out there and get in my face that you know I don't like. No, let's just stick these guys. Think what you know, Let's totally dominate these guys. So when you're facing a batter, have you pre assessed before a game every single battery you're gonna face in that game? You know what I used to do. Um, We'll have the scouting reports saying it like the way to pace certain guys, but they was I only had two pitches, fastball and curbs. A lot of times they're like, this guy is a great fastball hitter and came through the guy curball for strikes, and I'm thinking, why shouldn't be pitching. I'm done, you know, but basically always pitched to my strength and make the hitter suggests. So if you have I'm not a baseball player. I love going to the to the ball game. I love watching a baseball game live. It's a great treat. So you're standing there and you're at the top of your game, and you look at in your mind that imaginary strikes on the knees to the shoulders. You've got the home plate there in those four corners high and tight, high and outside, low and tight low and outside. Could you basically throw the ball the festival anywhere you want. You can make it go where you wanted to go. Five without doubt. Five, it was like from the first game to the last, your spot I was just right there, and they have to think about it. Everything just came and basically go right there. I would saying I wasn't even where from to ninety who's the fastest picture in baseball that you know right now, who who was over the time was any time? Who's been the fastest? I think Nolan Ryan. What do you supposedly they say topped out of one on three. Now you see these guys still on a hundred ninety nine. But also you have to remember all the new stadium, they got the radar guns, and there they turned out like three or four miles hour faster. It just for the fans, and unfortunately found out the hard way. I went to Cleveland towards the end of my career. The clock's got me at ninety seven. I'm thinking, wow, my fastballs, I'm back. Unfortunately three Did I have a breakfast? Did they write it down to fortune? Three innutes later? You know I have given him seven runs, four home runs, who knows how many hits? So now I get knocked out of game. I going room with the guy that keeps the video, and then I see like eight, seven, eighty nine, and actually, what is the numbers here? Is that's your philosophy? I say, out there, have me throwing ninety seven? He said no, No No, I was turned up for the fans. So I found out the heart weight. A little bit of show business, Yeah, so now when you see all of these guys throwing in the comedy, that was the feeling. Give me an example of a batter that always vexed you, that really just drove you crazy. Chili David's hands down when he was with the SEC Giant sells the mens. Yeah, it didn't matter if I was on top of my game or not. He would get hits off me. And what do you attribute that too? I think it was the way you're both built. I think he was built to hit your ball. Yeah, I think the way he was he wasn't like um intimidated by because a couple of times I threw in his head to try to terminate him. It didn't matter. He just was staying. If I didn't have my good stuff, he was hitting home runs. If I had good stuff, he was getting basis. So when you go high and type, you do it to intimidate them. Most time, it's just you're not doing brush them back right. You don't want to hurt nobody or hit him in the head, but just trying to think, to start thinking and keep them for getting comfortable. But Chilian didn't phase him. And is weird because some hitters, when you talk to him some pitches, they just see the ball a lot better than other pitches because it's like our number five starter, so he couldn't get a hit off from him. But I'm like the number one starter and he's just wearing me out. How old are you now? Now I'm forty forty and I'm fifty five, And now for you, I wonder have you been able to kind of revisit because you talk about your childhood and you talk about the contradiction, and you don't necessarily use that word I was. I read it very carefully when you talked about, you know, the kind of craziness in your household. Your uncle shot your aunt in front of you. Was my it was you. It was your brother in law. You call him uncle W, uncle GW. But he wasn't really your uncle. He was your brother from your much older sister. So you were six years old and your sister was twenty years old. It was like a fourteen more difference, if I correct. So you're you're in that scenario and this guy shoots your sister in the head right in front of you. You grabbed that baby and run into the bathroom, and you lock yourself in the bathroom and I'm wondering. You talk about how much your dad cared about you, and how much your mom thought to hold onto your dad and put up with a lot of ship from him, and you watched all this, and you talk about the love you God and the support you got. But it sounds like your family like much of my family. There's love and supporting a lot of good things, but there's a lot of nuttiness going on as well. And did you feel that that's what you needed to medicate yourself against sex, drugs, alcohol, all these things? Can you put your finger on why were you doing those things? Was it just boredom? No? I think the situation of early on him. In my career, it was boredom. Like when I would come home. I will come home from playing my season. Most of my friends were still in school while I was working, so the boredom was there while I just ride around, you know, drinking in a car, trying to pick up women, the ones that wasn't working in school, or just hang on the stress. Three corners hanging out And you came down there with a pocket full of money, right, so we'll hang out. Everything was on dwight. Yes, everything, So then like after the seasons I started doing drugs in New York. For the first time, it was more of the proper pressure. It was more of the media pressure and me putting pressure on myself. For example, everything was compared to a D five. If I won a game three nothing complete game, shout out. But if I only had, you know, five strikeouts, the first question would be happy you don't have five striks. They're picking you apart. So that's when I started medicating myself. Then it became pretty meditated, where every game I pitch, I think game I was gonna get high. I was needing gonna get high to celebrate the win. Alls dinna get high because I didn't pitch that well, to forget about the game, to put the loss behind you, right. And then like as you mentioned earlier about me um with my sister being shot. She got shot six times and at one time she got shot in the head. The but is still actually in their head, which you have seizures from it. Like grabbed my nephew and went in the bathroom and got into a pull current thing, thinking he's gonna come in and get us neakes. The thing that was weird. I didn't find out until basically two thousand eleven. I was my last treatment. Every time I would get high, I always go to the bathroom, whether I was home by myself, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's whatever. That's what I'm talking about, to baths, ghosts and these echoes of what were up with. Definitely, so I totally relate to that. And I was going to bath and it was pointed to me that I never realized that I put it together. You know, for me, I remember when I started to work. Oddly, when I was thinking about your life and your book. It's similar because I did a daytime TV show, was soap opera here in New York for a couple of years, and I went to l A and you gelt called up into the big leagues, so to speak, and then you start to make big league money. I mean, you and I have more in common than I thought, because as I was reading the book, I realized that then I got called up to do other things and I started to make more money. And you know, when I was focused on that work, I mean the high that I I got high from the work, and when I would go home, there was this lull, you know. I mean, like my adrenaline. I was. I was. I was high all day from the energy of being a young working actor. I went from one studio to the next audition for this movie. I get a part in three to five. That period was my white hot period because I'm in l A. My dad died. My dad died of cancer. He was fifty five years old. April three, and I'm out there and I'm booked. Man, I'm I signed deals. I mean, I can't come back. I go to work, and when I were left work, I felt this tremendous kind of depression, like this kind of low, like I had to go do something else to get high. Did you feel that one? I had the same thing. My problem is trying to feel that void like you're talking about. A lot of times, the downtime of being bored is a dangerous spot for me to be in because I've never had a hobby. When baseball season be over, now you come home to Tampa. You know, it's not like in New York. You can go to concerts, you go to plays, you can go to movies and stuff to do with Tampa's total opously just come down and there's nothing going on. So I totally relate what you said. I would feel that time. We weren't taking photography classes down to Tampa at the Tampa Institute of Photography. So you come home, you got all this time. You got six months of um all season. Four months before you started training, I started hanging out at clubs, norm more drugs, you know, just basically trying to fill that voard and not No, are you thinking this is fun? Looking my dad, it wasn't fun. It caused more trouble than anything. Did Money caused your trouble to money calls me trouble too. I was saying, how much money did you make your first I mean, this is all public record. How much money did you make your first season throwing in professional base? But not not the Triple A, not not the farm I first got drafted, when you first got driving the first thing? For how long did that last? How many years? For a year and a half, because then I was in the major's right then he went to the majors. How much did they pay my rookie year? I think the minimum at that time was sixty thousand. But my rookie year was out to also bring I mean, more money off the field than I did my contry. How much your money did you make off the field that year? I probably made about one point five when they busted the minimum that was in the sixty When did they we negotiate your contract with the Mets. Well, I didn't get a long term deal to at that point. I got like I think it was five point five million for three years, and at that point is the highest paid player at that time. Dwight Gooden also earned a one foot mural in Manhattan which depicts did the ace mid pitch, arms outstretched just about to launch a fastball. The giant image of Gooden looked down onto Times Square for ten years. In a moment, Doc Gooden gets questionable advice from a doctor and takes it. This is Alec Baldwin. I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to here's the thing. Major League Baseball was hardly immune to the cultural excesses of the nineteen eighties and the eighties. Six Mets were known as a hard partying team. Even so, Dwight Gooden was able to set limits in a sense, I went from seven to ninety four. We're just drinking. How it did that? I have no idea without using I think part of me will help me do that because I was being tested right, and so to talk about what it was like back in the test policy, how did that work? The test policy was once you test poli something or if you're get in trouble some kind of with alcohol or drugs, and you did, then you get into the just testing programs. How do they know you were in trouble with drugs and alcohol? Why I went to rehab? And eighty seven describe that what happened obviously in eight six missing the parade and I go to spring train. I'm doing coke, you know, not obviously doing the games, but I'm doing coke. Like I said, that night in spring training, you have to be the ballpark really early, so I did. I'm coming in there. I'm sure it looked like I've been up, you know, all day, all night. So then they called me in and say, you know, well these rooms going, let's put the rooms risk. Can we test you? So sure you can test me because I know I hadn't did anything the night before, so obviously the tests come like positive. So they get my option. They say you go to rehab and we'll continue paying your salary or because suspending without pay, so I was easy. So I say, I'll go to rehab so I can continue being paid, even though still at that time I man treatment, but I'm still thinking I don't have a problem, so I'll just marking days off the calendar to the third days was up. Get out of rehab. Now I'm bike working out with the money teams. And then when get on the plane to join the team, right back to drinking. So from ninety four I didn't I didn't use the drugs, but I was still drinking. So testing kind of scared you. Tests scared me, and plus it helped me for a little bit of a a period of time, but it's just amount of time I was gonna go back because I was still drinking. And so when so when testing helped to keep you in line, and then after ninety four, didn't write where were you that season? What happened was ninety four the situation where like I said, it was already premeditated that I was definitely used again given opportunity. So ninety four, the first game of the season, I break my toe, so I get put on the deal. So now I'm rehabing, getting back in shape. And so when Do's given a clearance. The sort of planning. I go down to the mono leagues just to get some in and in and build my own scrint up. And the right away the disease tell me, hey, they're not testing you down here. I can get high while I'm down here, I've relapsed. And now when I joined the team in Cincinnati, there's a guy from any Baseball waiting to test me. He tested me, obviously, it's positive, gets suspended. Then I go to our Betty Ford. I get out of there. So they wanted me to come back to New York to the Major League Baseball doctors. Before I went to Tampa. All I had to hear was the one doctor says, why don't you just drink? I don't do drugs. So as he said that, I'm thinking, even though even though I know I shouldn't have been two treatments at that time, and I know I can't drink. So I said, wow, maybe I could do it different this time. And now I'm gonna plane and fly home to Tampa to see my family. I'm drinking the plane I got to that plane, I don't see my family for three days. You pick up right where you left off. Definitely definitely pick up right. What is what they say for me? I when I got sober, when I stopped drinking and I stopped taking drugs, which was many years ago when I was very young, it changed a lot of things from me. I made. It really changed my attitude work to what I do for a living. I began to see the potential. And I don't want to say that it made me overwhelmingly cynical. That may be true or less, but it definitely made me more thoughtful, and it made me more aware of where there was the unhealthiness and a lot of things we do relationships with people. You know what what was a healthy relationship? What was a healthy relationship with my family? And what was your relationship like with your parents? Uh, now that you're rich and famous and honored and you have all these awards and you're coming apart my mom she didn't care about that fame. And still they see she can come and see you. Did you spend time? She would come up like during the season and see me. But she whenn't. She maybe came to maybe two games. She came to one in Houston, my very first start. She came to also a game in and maybe two stories in New York. My mom is a real Southern girl. She's from Georgia where they grow their own vegetables and fruit and you know, working the cotton field all that stuff. So baseball she enjoyed it more when I was a kid than professionally because she don't like all the commotions, right. So for my dad, he kind of treat him in the same but at the same time, I mean he was enjoying all the stuff that was going on. I mean he liked that because when I started playing baseball, initially was his dream and then it became my dream. And as I mentioned a book where a lot of my parents like they had me at a later time in the stage, like I have five siblars, three brothers, and I'm the youngest by thirteen years, so I came later on. So obviously I was a spot kid. My mom was very strict, you know, very direct with stuff. When my dad kind of gave me a pass with a lot of things as long as I was playing baseball. Without naming names, obviously, would you say that drug usage, I mean alcohol, it's uh, that's always been the case throughout history. But would you say the drug usage and particularly cocaine usage. Well, what what was the cocaine and drug usage like among professional athletes during the from when you started to when you finally got sober in two thousand. Yeah, I think that. Um. Obviously, in the eighties it was. It was available pretty much any time you wanted it, and a lot of people you knew were doing it. There's a lot of people doing it, and unfortunately the eight six Mass got labeled as a party team at that time in early eighties old teams was a party but because we're successful and within New York, we got pointed out. Um, a lot of stuff they say was true. But other teams and the police were doing the same thing. I think, who was a person that didn't party, who was kind of a straight arrow. Who is the boy scout on the team, who would come up with you, if any and wag their fingers in their face and say, shame on you. Don't you do that with several guys that didn't drink and didn't party, but they never like pointing finger. I thought this better. So no one came to you like a like a patriarchal figure and put his hand in and said, hey man, you gotta slow down. No prime example, Gary Carter. Great guy, I mean obviously it was a great problem. Even a better person off the field. He never drink, he never hung out with is anything that like. He would go out to the eat with us. But once we were saying we'll go out on the strip and he's okay, if you guys need me or whatever, I'm in my room. But they say it would come in with the red eyes, you know you hungover. He never judged you. He just said, you know you're okay, everything's good, you had a good time. Good, okay, let's get back to work. And that was it. Yeah, Um, what do you say to your kids? Your kids are high old. My kids are from three to twenty seven. So you have kids that knew how your top three oldest or how old seven one that I have an eighteen and sixteen right, so from sixteen and above. Let's say, uh, what do you say to them when they because they know all about you what's in the book. They know all about me with the book. And even before the book came out, I would talk to my kids, um, when you drink whatever I said, look, use me as an example, Um, like older kids. When I got to the point and felt comfortable. I had to talk with them, and I said, basically to tell you how powerful drugs are called it is, I basically divorced you, guys and your mother for drugs. I said, So just picture that. I said, you guys know how I felt when I wasn't around insidious it is right. And when I wasn't into school activities, when I wanted to game or if I was there, I miss a lot of that. And I say, you just think what that did to me. I say, and you guys know my heart. You guys know the type of person as I said, but once you get involved with that, you're not the same. And not only did you hurt yourself, but you hurt your loved ones like they forgive you. Like you guys, Yes, that was one of the things they forgave me. I only wanted me to be as healthy and be accountable to them. I don't make any promises to them, obviously, but I'm always there. I talked to him daily. Now, what are you doing with yourself now? I um. I usually my eight year old son and he plays baseball and football in Inglewood clips. He's here when I have the opportunity to help to coach his team. I do work with the mess sine Yankees. Um. I couldn't do that when Mrs Simer was living. It was only Yankee or nothing. So now unfortunately he's passed, I get to work a little bit with both teams. Do that, do a lot of stuff with the youth program and my true passions anything with kids. Your dad died when he passed. For where were you when your dad died? Icually? Um? I was in Tampa when it happened. Um, I usually the last game. My dad told me pitch wasn't no hitter, and I talked about that in a book where he had He had been struggling for a while with his kidding failures on dallas Is for like fifteen years. His health was deteriorating and they felt he had to have emergency heart surgery. They felt if he didn't have the surgery, he probably would last a month or two. And even if he had the surgery, can guarantee he's gonna last a month or two. But he definitely had a surgery. The day that piched on hid, I was supposed to fly home to build him that day because of having a surgery. Next morning, I had my flight, reservation, everything. But uh, when I woke up that morning, you know, I remember taking a shower and brash my teeth, and I just started reminiscent of all the days we spent at the park. Him teaching me to drills, made him going through the spring training games, made him watching games on TV. From him. I learned from him, like how to pitch, basically knew everything I learned about baseballs from him. Um, And would you learn from him as a father? As a father is putting family first? Understanding you believe he did, yes, definitely understanding in his way. In his way, yeah, I mean he might have it, didn't live it, but just telling me, you know, family comes first, family values, setting a good example for your kids as well. So that day I felt he will. Probably in some ways he didn't set a good example for you, well with the woman I was in or whatever. But that's that's what I'm saying. I wonder if sometimes that's part of what happened. Was you trying to make peace with those two, because that's where I came to in my life once I got sober and I showed up to examine what was bothering me. When I began to realize was I did my parents were people? Yeah? Did you find that that was a part of what aid at you? No, the contradictions inside your dad with with him, No, I would say not at all. Um, he was there like a lot of things that he was doing. I thought you became a womanizer. Yeah, I became a womanizer. And the thing my dad's were doing with the drinking whatever, like I never actually saw him with the one whatever, so he kept it all the way from my parents never are going to find me. So I just thought it was you know, everything was great. So you're saying that song, daddy's got a girlfriend. You out he would getting water or something. You actually you accidentally threw him under the that's a thing you described in the book. That's really really cool. You you did the doctor Drew thing. What year that was two thousand eleven. So you went back because you went out again, Yes, and you went out when you were sober from when to win from the last time from two thousand and ten. I was very acting my addiction what I was going through this, But you were sober two thousand till when two thousand um to two, and then I went back out there and I was basically in and out of my addiction until so you eat and out for eight more years and you got busted. Uh two, yes, do something? You get busted where what what happened was in Franklin Lakes in New Jersey. I had got charged with child endangerment where I took ambien the night before I woke up to take my son to school. Obviously hit a car and they wanted to get me out into the field, sobriety tests, which as they're talking to him building off and Mr taken a couple of ambien. Yes, it sounds like you took well the one ambient. Right. So then you get charged child endangerment because you were in a vehicle with a child. Yes. How old was the child? My son at that time that was two thousand ten, you know he would have been five. You were married to your wife then? Yes? Newly married almost? Yes? And what happened? Did you go to prison? Did jail rather? No time? No time? Got probation and I went That's when I went to the dr. Juwe show what what what? What did you think was unique about that? What helped you about? Uh? Going to the doctor's room. I can help you definitely helped me. But I think the thing was I was ready to get help the times before with the treatment. I was just basically there during my time. As you know, in treatment, what you put in is what you get out. I was just ready. It was the time of my life where I knew I had been a you know, rehabs. I've been the institutions. I've been a jail. I've been a prison. The only thing waiting with the cemetery. When did you go to prison? I went The prison was six four for technical volation for it was a relapse. How long were you in there? Ten a half months? What was that like? Horrible? I mean horrible in Gainesville, Florida. That was horrible any time you get locked up across the fader Well facility. You were in a state prison, but going there at the age forty is horrible. State prison. Yes, you were in a state prison in Gainesville, Florida for ten months, and they all knew who you were and did all like the biggest time. I mean, I've been been making a joke here, but like the biggest, toughest guys in the prison who could probably beat the crap and even come up and tell you that they would protect you if you taught them the secret and how to throw the fastball. I didn't get into that. Did you take a ball, like show them how to things going with the laces? They leave you alone? You look at some guy, listen, ray, I'm gonna show this to you one time and then that's it. I want you to promise if you're gonna leave out and there you found out the first thing you're there, You're just a number. You're not even a name. It's horrible. Yes, who did you become friends with it? Did you any what kind of time? There's a couple of guys that I knew from as kids that I haven't seen since childhood and found him in are because they've been in and out their whole life. So but that it helped the time go by fast. It was just a horrible, horrible time harbor experience. When you got out of there, how did you feel it was different? And I totally agree, Um, guy, I was telling me when guys getting cross ready and you're there for basically ten months or longer, it takes that same amount of time when you get out to get back to your yourself. And I found that once I got out, I was still living like I was a prison. I wouldn't go anywhere. I was just stay in the house. I was just basically doing time on the streets. So it was a horrible harbor time too. I can get comfortable. Who helped you? I had all started going to the meetings after that. I got a sponsor, this guy Ron Do Now when you first went to meetings and to that, No, I went to meetings before, but I just got totally go back into the program. The program saved you. Yeah, they got me going and got me, you know, feeling good about myself again. How was your wife? Is she cool about it? No? Okay, that was tough time. Yeah, that was tough. Yeah that's a story for another day. But it was okay. It's a tough thing though, you know, it's very tough. That's that's the thing I'll tell my kids. It's tough not only on you, but it's tough on you all your loved ones. You've heard everybody else through it. Yes, you definitely A lot of stuff is on their times. You can't have them forgive you on your time because we're doing like right now. So they have to work through their things and get to a point where they accept what happened. We can't force him. That's the thing that I found out For all his years in baseball, Dwight Gooden says he's more of a football fan, and during football season, his Sundays are pretty routine. He goes to church, attends a meeting, and then spends the rest of the night watching the game. Was your team Giants, big giant fans. I a lot of heat from our friend Valing Tample. Take a listen to our archive more in depth conversations with artists, policymakers, and performers like opera singer Renee Fleming. People go to sports events and scream at you know, the other team or even there of the people they like and their horse. The next day, we can't do that. We're doing the same thing, but we're doing it in a trained way, and you know, it is a hard art form to get right, but when it's right, it's it's amazing. Here more from two celebrated singers, Renee Fleming and radioheads Tom Yorke at Here's the Thing dot Org. Here's the Thing is produced by Emily Botine and Kathy Russo with Chris Bannon, Jim Briggs, ed Herbstman, Melanie Hoops, Monica Hopkins, Trey k Sharon machehe, Zach McNeice, Canberra Monies, Edwards and Luo Kowski. Thanks to Larry Josephson and the Radio Foundation. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. M h m hm

Here's The Thing with Alec Baldwin

Award-winning actor Alec Baldwin takes listeners into the lives of artists, policy makers and perfor 
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