Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her with Amina Brown. And y'all know, I get so excited about bringing people into our living room, so I want you to welcome nonprofit thought leader and chief executive Officer of Mercy Corps, Jada McKenna.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her with Amina Brown. And y'all know, I get so excited about bringing people into our living room, so I want you to welcome nonprofit thought leader and chief executive Officer of Mercy Corps, Jada McKenna.

Thank you. It's so much fun to be here. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.

Thank you. It's so much fun to be here. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.

Jada. I just I have a lot that I want to dive into with you today because I had a long time in my career that I worked in nonprofit space from the artist end, if that makes sense. So a lot of partnering with organizations and different nonprofit brands, and so there is so much about your work that I think will be really valuable to our listeners and especially to the women of color in this community. But as always, Jada, we got to start with snackt. The premise of Her with Amina Brown comes from the way that I have gathered in my own living room with my girlfriends. And it depends on our schedules, it depends on our budgets how we gather. But a lot of times the most free place is your home, and sometimes you have things you want to discuss that maybe the restaurant is not the thing. Maybe for sure the coffee shop is not the place you want to be. And so a girlfriend might call me and said, girl, I need to come over, and I'm like, I got you and she's like, what kind of things you got to there? I'm like, I got some hummus I opened up five days ago. I got some popcorn we can pop and she'll be like, I got a couple of bell peppers. See you then. So we kind of bring our little snacks together. When you gather with your friends, what is your favorite snack to bring or are you a person who likes to make a snack. What are the vibes?

Jada. I just I have a lot that I want to dive into with you today because I had a long time in my career that I worked in nonprofit space from the artist end, if that makes sense. So a lot of partnering with organizations and different nonprofit brands, and so there is so much about your work that I think will be really valuable to our listeners and especially to the women of color in this community. But as always, Jada, we got to start with snackt. The premise of Her with Amina Brown comes from the way that I have gathered in my own living room with my girlfriends. And it depends on our schedules, it depends on our budgets how we gather. But a lot of times the most free place is your home, and sometimes you have things you want to discuss that maybe the restaurant is not the thing. Maybe for sure the coffee shop is not the place you want to be. And so a girlfriend might call me and said, girl, I need to come over, and I'm like, I got you and she's like, what kind of things you got to there? I'm like, I got some hummus I opened up five days ago. I got some popcorn we can pop and she'll be like, I got a couple of bell peppers. See you then. So we kind of bring our little snacks together. When you gather with your friends, what is your favorite snack to bring or are you a person who likes to make a snack. What are the vibes?

So, unfortunately, I'm not very gifted in the kitchen, and that is a source of a lot of stress. So I am one to go to a store. So depending on the type of gathering it is. If it's really casual, just an afternoon and we're gonna eat a little junk food, I will bring Swedish fish, which is a childhood favorite and something that I may not get to indulge in all the time.

So, unfortunately, I'm not very gifted in the kitchen, and that is a source of a lot of stress. So I am one to go to a store. So depending on the type of gathering it is. If it's really casual, just an afternoon and we're gonna eat a little junk food, I will bring Swedish fish, which is a childhood favorite and something that I may not get to indulge in all the time.

If it is something closer to.

If it is something closer to.

A meal or a little heavier, I might go find some chicken wings or chicken drum MutS or some small pieces of fried chicken where that I can indulge and use this comfort food for our girls, Chap.

A meal or a little heavier, I might go find some chicken wings or chicken drum MutS or some small pieces of fried chicken where that I can indulge and use this comfort food for our girls, Chap.

I really respect these choices. I first of all want to just speak out loud that bot snacks are delicious, you know, like big respect to the people who are able to make a snack, but that's what the store is there for, and.

I really respect these choices. I first of all want to just speak out loud that bot snacks are delicious, you know, like big respect to the people who are able to make a snack, but that's what the store is there for, and.

Kudos to them.

Kudos to them.

And I'm jealous, and I wish I knew my way around to do it, but the amount of stress that would cause me would have me not going to the home.

And I'm jealous, and I wish I knew my way around to do it, but the amount of stress that would cause me would have me not going to the home.

So I just I just use the store.

So I just I just use the store.

I mean, I've had a girlfriend really bring like granola bars to my house because she was just like I had this left over from something my kid had. I'm just here and I think we just we want to welcome each other in these times.

I mean, I've had a girlfriend really bring like granola bars to my house because she was just like I had this left over from something my kid had. I'm just here and I think we just we want to welcome each other in these times.

We have to welcome that, we have to celebrate. Not everything has to be a production. We put way too much pressure on ourselves as it is in our day to day lives, and sometimes we just need the friendship and the company more than the accoutrements.

We have to welcome that, we have to celebrate. Not everything has to be a production. We put way too much pressure on ourselves as it is in our day to day lives, and sometimes we just need the friendship and the company more than the accoutrements.

Is that part. And I want to thank you for bringing up the Swedish fish because there are those kind of childhood snacks, candies type of thing that like, you wouldn't normally, I mean, unless I was having a really bad day, I wouldn't normally like I'm gonna walk in a store and buy these, and exactly you got to again.

Is that part. And I want to thank you for bringing up the Swedish fish because there are those kind of childhood snacks, candies type of thing that like, you wouldn't normally, I mean, unless I was having a really bad day, I wouldn't normally like I'm gonna walk in a store and buy these, and exactly you got to again.

They made me smile every time I have them.

They made me smile every time I have them.

I'm sure every gathering you brought them to there have been people who were like, yes.

I'm sure every gathering you brought them to there have been people who were like, yes.

It is definitely not the typical thing.

It is definitely not the typical thing.

I really respect that, Jada. I want to thank you for doing that. Okay, I want to talk to you. Oh y'all. I have so many things I'm trying to ask, Jada and like, and we cannot be having a three hour interview today, so I'm trying to like get my life together. But I want to talk about your career in nonprofit field. I know that we have a lot of people in our community who also work in nonprofit field. So when you graduated from college initially, though, did you imagine that your career would end up where it is now? What was what was young Jada's vision for what you thought you'd be doing in life compared to like where you ended up.

I really respect that, Jada. I want to thank you for doing that. Okay, I want to talk to you. Oh y'all. I have so many things I'm trying to ask, Jada and like, and we cannot be having a three hour interview today, so I'm trying to like get my life together. But I want to talk about your career in nonprofit field. I know that we have a lot of people in our community who also work in nonprofit field. So when you graduated from college initially, though, did you imagine that your career would end up where it is now? What was what was young Jada's vision for what you thought you'd be doing in life compared to like where you ended up.

Yeah, so I am in the perfect place where I was always meant to be. I had no idea what that looked like, and I certainly didn't expect it to be this. So I went to college. I did a program called Inroads out of high school. I don't know if everyone's spilled in Roads. It's a program. I still remember the mission TELP Talented Minority Youth Interfields in Business. So I had my little business internships. Both of my parents were public servants, and so I was very taken by this world of corporate America and like these big companies that owned all this stuff.

Yeah, so I am in the perfect place where I was always meant to be. I had no idea what that looked like, and I certainly didn't expect it to be this. So I went to college. I did a program called Inroads out of high school. I don't know if everyone's spilled in Roads. It's a program. I still remember the mission TELP Talented Minority Youth Interfields in Business. So I had my little business internships. Both of my parents were public servants, and so I was very taken by this world of corporate America and like these big companies that owned all this stuff.

So I when.

So I when.

I left college, I really felt like I was headed for a business career in corporate America. I wanted to go as high as I could go, and then in my free time, I wanted to be able to do things that impacted Africa.

I left college, I really felt like I was headed for a business career in corporate America. I wanted to go as high as I could go, and then in my free time, I wanted to be able to do things that impacted Africa.

And the community.

And the community.

I never dreamed of pulling that all together in my career, but I thought I for sure was.

I never dreamed of pulling that all together in my career, but I thought I for sure was.

Headed up a very steep corporate ladder.

Headed up a very steep corporate ladder.

Wow. I love this part of your story too, because I think the the person we are when we are young and starting out our career, it's sort of like can be a twofold experience. On the one hand, sometimes we do have some ideas germinating with us about what we think we'd want to do, and we may think is that realistic? Is that like a thing? And then sometimes we have like a thought of what that is, and then our actual journey takes us on these winding roads that sort of lead us down this path that we wouldn't have imagined, but to your point, places us exactly where we need it to be. In your bio, it says you are the only African American woman at the helm of a major international aid and development organization. This is a really powerful thing, and on this podcast we talk a lot about the pluses and also the hardships of being first, of being only. In some ways it is it is absolutely an important moment to kudos to you for all of the path that had to be carved out, all of the trail you had to blaze. In a sense that will mean a lot to a lot of black folks coming behind you, to a lot of people of color coming behind you. And we know that that's not easy. It's not easy to be only generally, and especially to be only when you are in a leadership position. There are a lot of black women and women of color who are struggling in the problematic structure of a lot of international aid organizations. What would you say? I mean, I know if we could talk about this for days and days, but what would you say, are some beginning things that need to be done to change that problematic structure that is sort of having some barriers as to why there are not more folks of color that are at the helm of these organizations.

Wow. I love this part of your story too, because I think the the person we are when we are young and starting out our career, it's sort of like can be a twofold experience. On the one hand, sometimes we do have some ideas germinating with us about what we think we'd want to do, and we may think is that realistic? Is that like a thing? And then sometimes we have like a thought of what that is, and then our actual journey takes us on these winding roads that sort of lead us down this path that we wouldn't have imagined, but to your point, places us exactly where we need it to be. In your bio, it says you are the only African American woman at the helm of a major international aid and development organization. This is a really powerful thing, and on this podcast we talk a lot about the pluses and also the hardships of being first, of being only. In some ways it is it is absolutely an important moment to kudos to you for all of the path that had to be carved out, all of the trail you had to blaze. In a sense that will mean a lot to a lot of black folks coming behind you, to a lot of people of color coming behind you. And we know that that's not easy. It's not easy to be only generally, and especially to be only when you are in a leadership position. There are a lot of black women and women of color who are struggling in the problematic structure of a lot of international aid organizations. What would you say? I mean, I know if we could talk about this for days and days, but what would you say, are some beginning things that need to be done to change that problematic structure that is sort of having some barriers as to why there are not more folks of color that are at the helm of these organizations.

Is it okay if I do this in ti parts?

Is it okay if I do this in ti parts?

Because I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the trauma.

Because I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the trauma.

Of being the only or the first in a lot of different situations and how that's manifested.

Of being the only or the first in a lot of different situations and how that's manifested.

So I'd like to talk about that a little bit, And then I want to talk about in my industry specifically. I am proud to say that I'm the only one serving right now. I'm not the first. The first is our wonderful six sister, doctor Helene Gail, who is where you are in Atlanta as the president of Spellman and.

So I'd like to talk about that a little bit, And then I want to talk about in my industry specifically. I am proud to say that I'm the only one serving right now. I'm not the first. The first is our wonderful six sister, doctor Helene Gail, who is where you are in Atlanta as the president of Spellman and.

College now just my alma mater, so shout out to doctor Gale yes.

College now just my alma mater, so shout out to doctor Gale yes.

And my mother's alma mater as well.

And my mother's alma mater as well.

And Helene Gail was the CEO of Care, which is also based in Atlanta for about a decade starting probably in around two thousand and six or two thousand and seven. And I have to say that when I took this job, when it was announced, one of the first calls I got was from Helene Gail, and she checked up on me regularly during my first year. So very grateful for people that showed it was possible, really disappointed that I'm the only now and since Helene, there really hasn't been another one at the helm of a large international development organization like Mercy Cord. And the reason I want to talk a little bit about the Choum I think there have been a lot of times in my life that I've been the only There are parts of elementary school in this space now, and as I get deeper in my leadership journey, you know, sometimes I realize the things that that does to me mentally that that may not do to my peers, and and at times I'm I can be a little resentful of that. Right So, especially now you know, we're a few years after George Floyd's still in the midst of defending why Black Lives Matter. I've had to address racial issues at work, and it bothers me that I have to stop and think, are people going to see this as me just being self absorbed, but that these are like real conversations that have to be had. Just because I have this lived experience should make me more hesitant to speak about them than other people, And in fact, I feel like it's my duty to do that. But on the other hand, that is like the tax and the burden that so many of us have as one of few in these situations. So it's this layer of responsibility and an opportunity that our non people of color colleagues don't have to contend with. And there's always been this extra tax in addition to just being a black one, and there's always been this extra tax on my life of being that like, oh, gosh, I need to make sure I mentor people.

And Helene Gail was the CEO of Care, which is also based in Atlanta for about a decade starting probably in around two thousand and six or two thousand and seven. And I have to say that when I took this job, when it was announced, one of the first calls I got was from Helene Gail, and she checked up on me regularly during my first year. So very grateful for people that showed it was possible, really disappointed that I'm the only now and since Helene, there really hasn't been another one at the helm of a large international development organization like Mercy Cord. And the reason I want to talk a little bit about the Choum I think there have been a lot of times in my life that I've been the only There are parts of elementary school in this space now, and as I get deeper in my leadership journey, you know, sometimes I realize the things that that does to me mentally that that may not do to my peers, and and at times I'm I can be a little resentful of that. Right So, especially now you know, we're a few years after George Floyd's still in the midst of defending why Black Lives Matter. I've had to address racial issues at work, and it bothers me that I have to stop and think, are people going to see this as me just being self absorbed, but that these are like real conversations that have to be had. Just because I have this lived experience should make me more hesitant to speak about them than other people, And in fact, I feel like it's my duty to do that. But on the other hand, that is like the tax and the burden that so many of us have as one of few in these situations. So it's this layer of responsibility and an opportunity that our non people of color colleagues don't have to contend with. And there's always been this extra tax in addition to just being a black one, and there's always been this extra tax on my life of being that like, oh, gosh, I need to make sure I mentor people.

So I'm not the only one.

So I'm not the only one.

Next gosh, I need to help these people prepare for interviews. We can get more black people in the next class. Like there's just always that extra that we are called to do or that we feel a sense of obligation to do because of.

Next gosh, I need to help these people prepare for interviews. We can get more black people in the next class. Like there's just always that extra that we are called to do or that we feel a sense of obligation to do because of.

Our history in our community.

Our history in our community.

So I think we should just acknowledge that and make space for ourselves and also knowledge that sometimes that's really frustrating and we get angry and it's not fair, and it's how we choose to live. In my sector in particular, it is it's a difficult space. So I work in international in the international development space.

So I think we should just acknowledge that and make space for ourselves and also knowledge that sometimes that's really frustrating and we get angry and it's not fair, and it's how we choose to live. In my sector in particular, it is it's a difficult space. So I work in international in the international development space.

And if you think of the history of this space, that.

And if you think of the history of this space, that.

The classic model was the white westerner, so like European British person going to quote unquote save some people who are often black or.

The classic model was the white westerner, so like European British person going to quote unquote save some people who are often black or.

Brown in another part of the world.

Brown in another part of the world.

And and even if you look at like missionary activity and all that, it's all from this. The optics of the framing have been around saving and generosity. So that's that's one problematic element of it. The second, too, is if you think of who in society has the opportunity to do that saving. So I'm really fortunate in my life I have I have my mother has.

And and even if you look at like missionary activity and all that, it's all from this. The optics of the framing have been around saving and generosity. So that's that's one problematic element of it. The second, too, is if you think of who in society has the opportunity to do that saving. So I'm really fortunate in my life I have I have my mother has.

A first cousin and her husband.

A first cousin and her husband.

They were in the second class of Peace Corps volunteers ever they served in northern Nigeria.

They were in the second class of Peace Corps volunteers ever they served in northern Nigeria.

They had that. When I came out of college, I have student loans.

They had that. When I came out of college, I have student loans.

I was not going into these courts I wanted I needed to go earn money.

I was not going into these courts I wanted I needed to go earn money.

I wanted to earn money.

I wanted to earn money.

And so just who has had these opportunities to travel internationally and to do this work, like who when you know, when we're applying for these jobs out of college, who are the people that say, oh, I spent a semester in this country or oh, my parents took me to live here. So there are there are those imbalances. And I think the third is just when it is a situation of providing something or thinking that you are it's the way that people that have been like the objects of those things have been received or taken. So there so there have been multiple layers, which unfortunately has led to oftentimes these organizations are being run or not run.

And so just who has had these opportunities to travel internationally and to do this work, like who when you know, when we're applying for these jobs out of college, who are the people that say, oh, I spent a semester in this country or oh, my parents took me to live here. So there are there are those imbalances. And I think the third is just when it is a situation of providing something or thinking that you are it's the way that people that have been like the objects of those things have been received or taken. So there so there have been multiple layers, which unfortunately has led to oftentimes these organizations are being run or not run.

By people of color.

By people of color.

We do see more women, but before you didn't see a lot of women historically either and sometimes not really taken into account or not seeing the people that we're serving as equals in this journey, or this sense of paternalism as though we know it's best and they don't. And it's really important now to really turn that upside down. And I'm really proud that at Mercy Core that's part of how we're trying to do it. But it's even the optics in the language. So for a while, we used to say that people were beneficiaries of our work. Right now and now now we taught we call them participants right and their participants and partners and creators and owners, and these are joint things.

We do see more women, but before you didn't see a lot of women historically either and sometimes not really taken into account or not seeing the people that we're serving as equals in this journey, or this sense of paternalism as though we know it's best and they don't. And it's really important now to really turn that upside down. And I'm really proud that at Mercy Core that's part of how we're trying to do it. But it's even the optics in the language. So for a while, we used to say that people were beneficiaries of our work. Right now and now now we taught we call them participants right and their participants and partners and creators and owners, and these are joint things.

Volunteerism is something.

Volunteerism is something.

So when I graduate from college, I did one of these programs that now I consider a bit problematic, where I was coming out of college an idiot and I volunteered in quotes in a really remote area of South Africa and we were building a school.

So when I graduate from college, I did one of these programs that now I consider a bit problematic, where I was coming out of college an idiot and I volunteered in quotes in a really remote area of South Africa and we were building a school.

I had never built a thing in the day of my life.

I had never built a thing in the day of my life.

So in hindsight, I mean, I think we should think of those things as like exchanges or cultural exchanges, because honestly I brought no skills to that, maybe was taking away work from a local person that should have been doing that work, and like, who the heck am I to show up as a savior? So you know, it's like the optics in the frame. So we've worked, we're working really hard to really strip that language and that way of thinking from our vocabulary. You know, I guess I had mentioned the participant thing earlier, you know, not like really conscious of like savior things, very conscious of the images.

So in hindsight, I mean, I think we should think of those things as like exchanges or cultural exchanges, because honestly I brought no skills to that, maybe was taking away work from a local person that should have been doing that work, and like, who the heck am I to show up as a savior? So you know, it's like the optics in the frame. So we've worked, we're working really hard to really strip that language and that way of thinking from our vocabulary. You know, I guess I had mentioned the participant thing earlier, you know, not like really conscious of like savior things, very conscious of the images.

So I came of age in the.

So I came of age in the.

Eighties where you'd see these ads with African ChIL with like flies in their eyes, right, like what we now call poverty porn.

Eighties where you'd see these ads with African ChIL with like flies in their eyes, right, like what we now call poverty porn.

We do not do that.

We do not do that.

You will see in images and images that we put out. It is people who have agency over their lives, who were in positions of strength, coming out of difficult situations, and just really conscious of not promoting that imagery, really conscious of making sure that we do have equity, that you know, more than eighty five percent of our teams from the communities where we work, trying to get people from the regions from those countries into leadership positions in those places, but also in the organization as a whole, and just being really thoughtful. Our largest groups of expats these days are not Americans or Europeans or aust Giants.

You will see in images and images that we put out. It is people who have agency over their lives, who were in positions of strength, coming out of difficult situations, and just really conscious of not promoting that imagery, really conscious of making sure that we do have equity, that you know, more than eighty five percent of our teams from the communities where we work, trying to get people from the regions from those countries into leadership positions in those places, but also in the organization as a whole, and just being really thoughtful. Our largest groups of expats these days are not Americans or Europeans or aust Giants.

It is Kenyans.

It is Kenyans.

It's it's Kenyans and Ethiopians and people from Nepal and people from India. So really trying to evolve that and then also really evolving, like really paying attention to the power structures in our work and making sure that we are approaching things in very humble ways and working with local organizations and local leadership, and that it is something where that community has more of a voice than we do, and all kinds of mechanisms for people to speak up when they feel like that's not happening. None of this is perfect. This is all evolving. It's still under a dynamic where you do have mostly money flowing from the global north to the global South. But that are just ways to do that vastly better than our sector has done in the past, and that's where we're very committed to doing.

It's it's Kenyans and Ethiopians and people from Nepal and people from India. So really trying to evolve that and then also really evolving, like really paying attention to the power structures in our work and making sure that we are approaching things in very humble ways and working with local organizations and local leadership, and that it is something where that community has more of a voice than we do, and all kinds of mechanisms for people to speak up when they feel like that's not happening. None of this is perfect. This is all evolving. It's still under a dynamic where you do have mostly money flowing from the global north to the global South. But that are just ways to do that vastly better than our sector has done in the past, and that's where we're very committed to doing.

I love hearing this. I mean, first of all, it gives me a lot of hopeful feelings and hopeful thoughts that change is possible. You know, it's possible for us in our various fields to recognize while the way we've been doing that is a problem and we don't have to say, ah, it was just the times we can actually say and we're going to stop, and here's the new ways we can learn, how to partner with others, how to use language in more equitable ways, how to use our imaging and photography in more equitable ways. I think that is so powerful, Jada, Because I am a kid who grew up in church, I have been on more missions trips than I can count. I actually thought to myself, almost all, if not all, of my international travel was related to sort of volunteerism in a way. And as I got older, I just started to think like I didn't get to see those countries or those communities from a more holistic view, because all I'm seeing is what I'm coming there to help to fix to whatever those things are. And there is a more especially I feel for many of us who are American, there is a humility that we need when we are going into these spaces. It is not to assume that the people there don't know the things. We have arrived and we know the things. It's really to find yourself if you are in this position to arrive to say I'm here to learn from you, I'm here to partner with you in the ways that are helpful to you. But I have had more experiences of the other side of that, where you look back and you're like, yikes, I don't know.

I love hearing this. I mean, first of all, it gives me a lot of hopeful feelings and hopeful thoughts that change is possible. You know, it's possible for us in our various fields to recognize while the way we've been doing that is a problem and we don't have to say, ah, it was just the times we can actually say and we're going to stop, and here's the new ways we can learn, how to partner with others, how to use language in more equitable ways, how to use our imaging and photography in more equitable ways. I think that is so powerful, Jada, Because I am a kid who grew up in church, I have been on more missions trips than I can count. I actually thought to myself, almost all, if not all, of my international travel was related to sort of volunteerism in a way. And as I got older, I just started to think like I didn't get to see those countries or those communities from a more holistic view, because all I'm seeing is what I'm coming there to help to fix to whatever those things are. And there is a more especially I feel for many of us who are American, there is a humility that we need when we are going into these spaces. It is not to assume that the people there don't know the things. We have arrived and we know the things. It's really to find yourself if you are in this position to arrive to say I'm here to learn from you, I'm here to partner with you in the ways that are helpful to you. But I have had more experiences of the other side of that, where you look back and you're like, yikes, I don't know.

You look at the pictures that you took and you're like, oh, maybe look great. And that's why I love the term exchange, because you know, it's it's not just it's like what are we learning from them? Like, we're going through these places to learn as well. And I think a lot of times in those situations it's like no we're taking this great thing and you know, we're learning, and they have a lot of amazing things to teach and to share, and just because something's different doesn't make it bad or wrong. And I think sometimes that gets really missed on these trips.

You look at the pictures that you took and you're like, oh, maybe look great. And that's why I love the term exchange, because you know, it's it's not just it's like what are we learning from them? Like, we're going through these places to learn as well. And I think a lot of times in those situations it's like no we're taking this great thing and you know, we're learning, and they have a lot of amazing things to teach and to share, and just because something's different doesn't make it bad or wrong. And I think sometimes that gets really missed on these trips.

So I do I encourage.

So I do I encourage.

On the other hand, they're great ways for people to get out and to learn things they would learn. So I do just encourage people to be to really investigate the organizations that they're going with and and make sure that the values of that organization align with their reasons and what they hope to get.

On the other hand, they're great ways for people to get out and to learn things they would learn. So I do just encourage people to be to really investigate the organizations that they're going with and and make sure that the values of that organization align with their reasons and what they hope to get.

Out of it.

Out of it.

Yeah, that's really important. I want to talk about black women and women of color who work in the international aid space, and I am very interested to hear your thoughts about this because I know that there are people in our community listening who are working in these spaces, even some of them as volunteers as well, you know, in some of these spaces, right, And I think sometimes there is this element. I'll say, for me, having done some work in nonprofit world, having had nonprofit clients, worked with nonprofit events, I think sometimes it's a part of it when we are entering a space where we're working with an organization that is you know, you know air quotes here doing good. A part of why we do that sometimes is coming from this good place in our heart.

Yeah, that's really important. I want to talk about black women and women of color who work in the international aid space, and I am very interested to hear your thoughts about this because I know that there are people in our community listening who are working in these spaces, even some of them as volunteers as well, you know, in some of these spaces, right, And I think sometimes there is this element. I'll say, for me, having done some work in nonprofit world, having had nonprofit clients, worked with nonprofit events, I think sometimes it's a part of it when we are entering a space where we're working with an organization that is you know, you know air quotes here doing good. A part of why we do that sometimes is coming from this good place in our heart.

You know.

You know.

We want to affect change. We want to see people who are under resource have the resources that they deserve, you know. So we sort of enter the space with our hearts open and our hands open, and we're here to do these things. And I think because we're in a do good environment, we are thinking and hoping that everyone else there is also here to be open hearted. It is also here to sort of gather communally while we try to do all these things. Whereas some of the black women and women of color I know, for example, who work in corporate America, there are certain bottom lines and certain types of things we expect in corporate America because it's pretty clear a lot of us that have worked in corporate that this is about making money. You know, this is about making money. This is about I'm you know, maybe I'm here trying to make money. We know, the CEO here trying to make money, you know, the c suite, everybody is here, from the C suite down to the entry level position because we're here trying to make money. So I think there are certain things when we're in corporate that we just sort of expect to be cutthroat, and sometimes we expect a certain environment. And I think some of us walked into international aid, walked into nonprofit space thinking in some ways maybe we were entering a bit of a utopia, maybe it wasn't like corporate America, and then we got inside and we're like, yikes, some things I needed to think a bit differently, right, So I would love to hear from your experience. What are some tips you would give to black women and women of color who may be in nonprofit space, they may be working in an international aid space, they may be considering work in these areas. What are the tips and things you would say? You know now, like if you could look back at yourself starting that, you would say to your young self, Hey, think about this, do these things? What are some thoughts you.

We want to affect change. We want to see people who are under resource have the resources that they deserve, you know. So we sort of enter the space with our hearts open and our hands open, and we're here to do these things. And I think because we're in a do good environment, we are thinking and hoping that everyone else there is also here to be open hearted. It is also here to sort of gather communally while we try to do all these things. Whereas some of the black women and women of color I know, for example, who work in corporate America, there are certain bottom lines and certain types of things we expect in corporate America because it's pretty clear a lot of us that have worked in corporate that this is about making money. You know, this is about making money. This is about I'm you know, maybe I'm here trying to make money. We know, the CEO here trying to make money, you know, the c suite, everybody is here, from the C suite down to the entry level position because we're here trying to make money. So I think there are certain things when we're in corporate that we just sort of expect to be cutthroat, and sometimes we expect a certain environment. And I think some of us walked into international aid, walked into nonprofit space thinking in some ways maybe we were entering a bit of a utopia, maybe it wasn't like corporate America, and then we got inside and we're like, yikes, some things I needed to think a bit differently, right, So I would love to hear from your experience. What are some tips you would give to black women and women of color who may be in nonprofit space, they may be working in an international aid space, they may be considering work in these areas. What are the tips and things you would say? You know now, like if you could look back at yourself starting that, you would say to your young self, Hey, think about this, do these things? What are some thoughts you.

Have on that you The way you preface this question is it gets to my number one piece of advice, right, because I think it's easier. You know, when you've walk into a corp, a profit making company, you're not expecting them to have all these values. You're not expecting a certain treatment and I think that's one of the first things I tell people is to protect their heart because all of these are organizations that suffer from the same societal things that every place I'll suffer, right, So people with their unconscious biases. People where there's going to be favoritism, sometimes people are going to disagree or not act in the most charitable way or the ways that are consistent with the values of the organization. So I think being prepared for that and not letting that because I think when your heart is hurt on that level, it becomes even it sends you down a much deeper spiral, right, and it's a lot harder to overcome, and that might be become the animating thing. So I always encourage people to walk in with that same sense of, for lack of a better word, defensiveness, right, walk in knowing what you're worth, what you're supposed to be doing, and expecting that kind of treatment, and if it doesn't come or things don't happen, to not be hurt by it, but to push back, right and also realize we're in an organization with these dynamics. One thing I absolutely hate about the nonprofit sector, or there's this mentality sometimes, and I think the public does it as well. The organizations that you should accept far less pay or you should not because this is good work.

Have on that you The way you preface this question is it gets to my number one piece of advice, right, because I think it's easier. You know, when you've walk into a corp, a profit making company, you're not expecting them to have all these values. You're not expecting a certain treatment and I think that's one of the first things I tell people is to protect their heart because all of these are organizations that suffer from the same societal things that every place I'll suffer, right, So people with their unconscious biases. People where there's going to be favoritism, sometimes people are going to disagree or not act in the most charitable way or the ways that are consistent with the values of the organization. So I think being prepared for that and not letting that because I think when your heart is hurt on that level, it becomes even it sends you down a much deeper spiral, right, and it's a lot harder to overcome, and that might be become the animating thing. So I always encourage people to walk in with that same sense of, for lack of a better word, defensiveness, right, walk in knowing what you're worth, what you're supposed to be doing, and expecting that kind of treatment, and if it doesn't come or things don't happen, to not be hurt by it, but to push back, right and also realize we're in an organization with these dynamics. One thing I absolutely hate about the nonprofit sector, or there's this mentality sometimes, and I think the public does it as well. The organizations that you should accept far less pay or you should not because this is good work.

Right.

Right.

I had a boss who used to brag about never taking pay raises.

I had a boss who used to brag about never taking pay raises.

Well, that man lived off of his trust fund. Okay, I do not need to have a trust.

Well, that man lived off of his trust fund. Okay, I do not need to have a trust.

Fund to work there, right, So it's like, pay me what I'm worth and what you know, pay me fairly. Yes, the pay skill is not going to be the same, but pay me fairly. Me being here and bringing my talents to this is not a gift to the world, like we're all here to do good. But if you and I'd say this for organizations too, if you're trying to do good work, if you're trying to be professional and be efficient, then that also means you need to have professionals who understand what they're doing. Otherwise you're kind of wasting people's money and energy. So I think, kind of know who you are, know what you're worth, and don't be scared to leave. If you can't resolve those issues within the culture, know that you need to go someplace else. And I think because nonprofits because there aren't bonuses to give away, or you know, because there aren't some of these other incentives. Sometimes people will put up with things that they shouldn't, and sometimes organizations will allow a certain level of toxicity to emerge kind of accidentally, either because of favoritism or just because it's like this assumption everyone's here to do good work.

Fund to work there, right, So it's like, pay me what I'm worth and what you know, pay me fairly. Yes, the pay skill is not going to be the same, but pay me fairly. Me being here and bringing my talents to this is not a gift to the world, like we're all here to do good. But if you and I'd say this for organizations too, if you're trying to do good work, if you're trying to be professional and be efficient, then that also means you need to have professionals who understand what they're doing. Otherwise you're kind of wasting people's money and energy. So I think, kind of know who you are, know what you're worth, and don't be scared to leave. If you can't resolve those issues within the culture, know that you need to go someplace else. And I think because nonprofits because there aren't bonuses to give away, or you know, because there aren't some of these other incentives. Sometimes people will put up with things that they shouldn't, and sometimes organizations will allow a certain level of toxicity to emerge kind of accidentally, either because of favoritism or just because it's like this assumption everyone's here to do good work.

So I don't want to tell people when they're not.

So I don't want to tell people when they're not.

And so I think just us maintaining our standards, especially because when we leave, like we need to still be competitive and do things outside as well. Right, So, but but walking being strong and knowing who you are and and you know and and be prepared to walk if it's not if it's not treating you in.

And so I think just us maintaining our standards, especially because when we leave, like we need to still be competitive and do things outside as well. Right, So, but but walking being strong and knowing who you are and and you know and and be prepared to walk if it's not if it's not treating you in.

That way, Come on, Jada, don't be scared to leave is the part that really touched me. That's the part that really touched me. Because I am a person who enjoys work connected to my values, for better or for worse. In my career, that's been true of me. So when I've been in work situations where I'm like, oh, this doesn't really connect with me, I have a hard time sort of like disconnecting from that.

That way, Come on, Jada, don't be scared to leave is the part that really touched me. That's the part that really touched me. Because I am a person who enjoys work connected to my values, for better or for worse. In my career, that's been true of me. So when I've been in work situations where I'm like, oh, this doesn't really connect with me, I have a hard time sort of like disconnecting from that.

Right, I had to accept there was a place I left that had some real race issues underlying things.

Right, I had to accept there was a place I left that had some real race issues underlying things.

And a lot of issues, and at some point I realized, wait, isn't this is just not for me? I am not the issue here, right Like who I am is very clear.

And a lot of issues, and at some point I realized, wait, isn't this is just not for me? I am not the issue here, right Like who I am is very clear.

This is not a space for me, and that's unfortunate because they're trying to do a lot of work for people that look like me, and I will call it out and I will try to get them to be better, but ultimately the best thing for my sanity and for a better use of my skills is to walk away. Yeah, And so sometimes I think too will take things personally. It's just hard when it's really close to your heart and the work, it's harder to let go. It's harder not to take it personally. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that some environments are just not for me and to try to move into spaces that hour that we can make ours.

This is not a space for me, and that's unfortunate because they're trying to do a lot of work for people that look like me, and I will call it out and I will try to get them to be better, but ultimately the best thing for my sanity and for a better use of my skills is to walk away. Yeah, And so sometimes I think too will take things personally. It's just hard when it's really close to your heart and the work, it's harder to let go. It's harder not to take it personally. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that some environments are just not for me and to try to move into spaces that hour that we can make ours.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I also feel that it's so powerful that you're speaking to the empowerment of saying this may not be for me, and in that case, it is okay for me to walk away, because I think there are a lot of folks of color, queer folks, disabled folks that end up working in these types of spaces that then are made to feel like, oh, well, you're there for a reason, you're supposed to fix it from the inside out. And then people who already have all this other stuff on them when they walk into the workplace are now being tasked with additional work and additional things that were not even a part of the job that they were hired to do. And I think there is such power in saying, first of all, it is not my job to come in here and fix your entire organization from the inside out. If you wanted that. There is a fee you can pay for consultants. There is a fee you can pay for people who do that type of infrastructural work with an organization. But you don't hire me for this position I've been hired. And then say, well, because you're black or because you're from a marginalized group, now it's also your job to help us learn how to be less racist, or help us learn how to be less homophobic.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I also feel that it's so powerful that you're speaking to the empowerment of saying this may not be for me, and in that case, it is okay for me to walk away, because I think there are a lot of folks of color, queer folks, disabled folks that end up working in these types of spaces that then are made to feel like, oh, well, you're there for a reason, you're supposed to fix it from the inside out. And then people who already have all this other stuff on them when they walk into the workplace are now being tasked with additional work and additional things that were not even a part of the job that they were hired to do. And I think there is such power in saying, first of all, it is not my job to come in here and fix your entire organization from the inside out. If you wanted that. There is a fee you can pay for consultants. There is a fee you can pay for people who do that type of infrastructural work with an organization. But you don't hire me for this position I've been hired. And then say, well, because you're black or because you're from a marginalized group, now it's also your job to help us learn how to be less racist, or help us learn how to be less homophobic.

You know, it's just and I warned people.

You know, it's just and I warned people.

I say, you know, I did all the things right I was on.

I say, you know, I did all the things right I was on.

Like the black employee things I volunteer.

Like the black employee things I volunteer.

But I also tell people like now, I know that I would not take a diversity, equity and inclusion job because it is too painful for me to see wrong. It's just too painful for me. And so there's an emotional toll that it will take on me that where I cannot do it, other people can. And that's something I warned people, even with these employee groups and other things, I'm like, this is volunteer labor. You know, people are not going make sure that you're doing really well at your own job first, because people are going to think this is like fun for you, right, or it's not the real extra thing when it is. And so when you can't negotiate that or just just know that and take into account where you are in your whole life and your whole being and if.

But I also tell people like now, I know that I would not take a diversity, equity and inclusion job because it is too painful for me to see wrong. It's just too painful for me. And so there's an emotional toll that it will take on me that where I cannot do it, other people can. And that's something I warned people, even with these employee groups and other things, I'm like, this is volunteer labor. You know, people are not going make sure that you're doing really well at your own job first, because people are going to think this is like fun for you, right, or it's not the real extra thing when it is. And so when you can't negotiate that or just just know that and take into account where you are in your whole life and your whole being and if.

That's what you want to be doing with yourself.

That's what you want to be doing with yourself.

And also and I also challenge the other employers to be like, hey, like at the end of the day, I think we've all learned, like black people, we're not the ones to fix racism benefit from it, Like we're.

And also and I also challenge the other employers to be like, hey, like at the end of the day, I think we've all learned, like black people, we're not the ones to fix racism benefit from it, Like we're.

Not the ones practicing it, you know. It's so you know, the people that are.

Not the ones practicing it, you know. It's so you know, the people that are.

Need to also need to take accountability and really own it. And so looking at ways to make sure others are facing that burner or accepting it. And if they're not, if people are just turning the work back on you, then you also have a sign that they're not serious.

Need to also need to take accountability and really own it. And so looking at ways to make sure others are facing that burner or accepting it. And if they're not, if people are just turning the work back on you, then you also have a sign that they're not serious.

Yeah, that they're not serious people. Jada A word that's yes, that's a word. I want to talk about Black women in leadership and how we care for ourselves. I have a lot of Black women in my sort of personal life that are my friends. And then of course I feel like all of us as a black women also have the Black women that I would say are our colleagues. Right, they're our friends, but they're also in our field too, so they know a bit about like the work we're doing. And this is this is a constant conversation I think as black women in leadership, we you know, anyone in leadership has like you have the things you know, you may have family things that you've got going on. You've got your own personal life to drink water and breathe and et cetera. But I find that a lot of the Black women in my life that I know personally and professionally, we have our jobs, we have our families, we have other community work that we have going. We may have family members or people in our lives that we are caring for, whether that's our children, parents.

Yeah, that they're not serious people. Jada A word that's yes, that's a word. I want to talk about Black women in leadership and how we care for ourselves. I have a lot of Black women in my sort of personal life that are my friends. And then of course I feel like all of us as a black women also have the Black women that I would say are our colleagues. Right, they're our friends, but they're also in our field too, so they know a bit about like the work we're doing. And this is this is a constant conversation I think as black women in leadership, we you know, anyone in leadership has like you have the things you know, you may have family things that you've got going on. You've got your own personal life to drink water and breathe and et cetera. But I find that a lot of the Black women in my life that I know personally and professionally, we have our jobs, we have our families, we have other community work that we have going. We may have family members or people in our lives that we are caring for, whether that's our children, parents.

Or interview and going to the hospital to figure out next steps for my mother's care.

Or interview and going to the hospital to figure out next steps for my mother's care.

Speak to speak on it.

Speak to speak on it.

You know, It's like we have all these things, which means when we are in leadership positions where our responsibilities are high at our jobs, it requires even more care from us for ourselves. What would you say, are some things in this season of life that are helping you care for yourself, you know, with all that you may carry in your life.

You know, It's like we have all these things, which means when we are in leadership positions where our responsibilities are high at our jobs, it requires even more care from us for ourselves. What would you say, are some things in this season of life that are helping you care for yourself, you know, with all that you may carry in your life.

Yeah, I think there are two things I really focus on, and obviously I'm always taking ideas because I think this self care element is critically important to us.

Yeah, I think there are two things I really focus on, and obviously I'm always taking ideas because I think this self care element is critically important to us.

But one is the relationships. So I am I'm in a already so skiway to my sores.

But one is the relationships. So I am I'm in a already so skiway to my sores.

I have.

I have.

There's a text tam with my line sisters that we are on all the time.

There's a text tam with my line sisters that we are on all the time.

A group of them are out in Alaska at this moment, So it's just like making sure to take those you know, to take the trips, to make the time to have that close network of girlfriends and we're all navigating our career journeys and supporting each other through it.

A group of them are out in Alaska at this moment, So it's just like making sure to take those you know, to take the trips, to make the time to have that close network of girlfriends and we're all navigating our career journeys and supporting each other through it.

Family support. I happen to have a very supportive.

Family support. I happen to have a very supportive.

Husband's who's he does a lot and absorbs a lot. But yeah, I really focus on keeping those relationships that keep me sane and those people that care about me strong. The other side, too, is I am forever telling people to put on your life jacket first. So I've gotten much better over the years at saying no, right because there are things I can't. I just acknowledge that I can't do everything at the same time, and I it's you know, And so there are times I just have to say no, like no, I can't be the school mom for this, No, I can't do this. And I've gotten really comfortable saying that because I just need the time and space to myself for my own to be the best that I need to be everywhere else, I have to say no to a lot of things.

Husband's who's he does a lot and absorbs a lot. But yeah, I really focus on keeping those relationships that keep me sane and those people that care about me strong. The other side, too, is I am forever telling people to put on your life jacket first. So I've gotten much better over the years at saying no, right because there are things I can't. I just acknowledge that I can't do everything at the same time, and I it's you know, And so there are times I just have to say no, like no, I can't be the school mom for this, No, I can't do this. And I've gotten really comfortable saying that because I just need the time and space to myself for my own to be the best that I need to be everywhere else, I have to say no to a lot of things.

Yeah, that's a really it's a really practical thing you said. And on one hand, sometimes it is just hard to say no. And on the other hand, the times I have, I'm like, whoo, that was freeing. I just don't have to go to that.

Yeah, that's a really it's a really practical thing you said. And on one hand, sometimes it is just hard to say no. And on the other hand, the times I have, I'm like, whoo, that was freeing. I just don't have to go to that.

I you don't have to do the things dreading it like why did I say yes? And it's just like, why am I putting that stress on myself?

I you don't have to do the things dreading it like why did I say yes? And it's just like, why am I putting that stress on myself?

Right? Yeah, but it all comes from the.

Right? Yeah, but it all comes from the.

Optic of really like putting yourself, making sure that you're putting yourself first and thinking of it, and that you have people around you who are pointing out when you are failing at that.

Optic of really like putting yourself, making sure that you're putting yourself first and thinking of it, and that you have people around you who are pointing out when you are failing at that.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think I've been a person and I would say this is true of many of us as black women. Is well, I think I've been a person who loves to sort of give love externally. It's like, I love to like support the people in my life. I love to give to them. I love to be nurturing to them. And my therapist was like, you know you your own best friend too, write like you know that energy you're giving to people like give It's not that it's bad that you want to do that, but give it to you too. You know, your girlfriend has surgery and you will go to her house and make soup for her and do these things. It's wonderful that you do it. Would you get the soup for you or would you let someone else make the soup for you? And so I think that also helps us in what you were saying too, of just building building community with people who care about who we are, not just what we do, that we matter to them in full that they're gonna look at you and say, if you don't go to sleep good night, I do not want to see you at no meetings, no events, no more go to eat a vegetable. People in your life that want that kind of care for you. It's just beautiful. So I love that you brought that up there.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think I've been a person and I would say this is true of many of us as black women. Is well, I think I've been a person who loves to sort of give love externally. It's like, I love to like support the people in my life. I love to give to them. I love to be nurturing to them. And my therapist was like, you know you your own best friend too, write like you know that energy you're giving to people like give It's not that it's bad that you want to do that, but give it to you too. You know, your girlfriend has surgery and you will go to her house and make soup for her and do these things. It's wonderful that you do it. Would you get the soup for you or would you let someone else make the soup for you? And so I think that also helps us in what you were saying too, of just building building community with people who care about who we are, not just what we do, that we matter to them in full that they're gonna look at you and say, if you don't go to sleep good night, I do not want to see you at no meetings, no events, no more go to eat a vegetable. People in your life that want that kind of care for you. It's just beautiful. So I love that you brought that up there.

No, it's it's it's I travel a lot for my work, obviously, and it's almost all international.

No, it's it's it's I travel a lot for my work, obviously, and it's almost all international.

One of my colleagues is really good.

One of my colleagues is really good.

It just like she'll build in the extra half day to go get the massage, to do the thing, and I'm always usually just rushing home. I need to get home, but you know, and she's encouraged me, and so sometimes I do build in the time, like look, I need this afternoon, or I need to do something nice, so I'm not just in and out of places and just you know, it could be anywhere in the world and not even paying attention. Right.

It just like she'll build in the extra half day to go get the massage, to do the thing, and I'm always usually just rushing home. I need to get home, but you know, and she's encouraged me, and so sometimes I do build in the time, like look, I need this afternoon, or I need to do something nice, so I'm not just in and out of places and just you know, it could be anywhere in the world and not even paying attention. Right.

Oh, I love that. Okay, I have two more questions because y'all know I could really talk to Jada for.

Oh, I love that. Okay, I have two more questions because y'all know I could really talk to Jada for.

We go to your living room.

We go to your living room.

It's so cal Oh, my gosh, okay, I want to talk about how we support international aid. Are we are, on the one hand, having been a person who sort of grew I've been around long enough now, Jada, that we grew up without the internet in part, right, okay, right, you know, before my Space and whatever that is, So what you knew needed support? There were some things you just didn't know because we didn't have as much access, especially here in America. We didn't have as much access to what was happening internationally all the time. Whereas now we have social media. You have all these things, and we talk a lot about, you know, compassion fatigue in a way that people are just like, what what what should I care about? What should I support? What would be you know, your thoughts you would give folks. That are just practical things we can think about as we are reading the news and watching our our I'm still going to say, Twitter, I'm sorry, y'all. That's just how it's gonna be. So watching our tweets. Sorry, whatever I may whatever I may say, ain't unapplying to me. Is still Twitter. So we're like reading our tweets, We're seeing the things that are coming across hashtags, you know, we're trying to think about what can we do, and sometimes in our feeling overwhelmed, then we either don't do anything, we're not sure how to take in what we're reading. What would be your thoughts about that as it relates to how we can be global citizens in the sins.

It's so cal Oh, my gosh, okay, I want to talk about how we support international aid. Are we are, on the one hand, having been a person who sort of grew I've been around long enough now, Jada, that we grew up without the internet in part, right, okay, right, you know, before my Space and whatever that is, So what you knew needed support? There were some things you just didn't know because we didn't have as much access, especially here in America. We didn't have as much access to what was happening internationally all the time. Whereas now we have social media. You have all these things, and we talk a lot about, you know, compassion fatigue in a way that people are just like, what what what should I care about? What should I support? What would be you know, your thoughts you would give folks. That are just practical things we can think about as we are reading the news and watching our our I'm still going to say, Twitter, I'm sorry, y'all. That's just how it's gonna be. So watching our tweets. Sorry, whatever I may whatever I may say, ain't unapplying to me. Is still Twitter. So we're like reading our tweets, We're seeing the things that are coming across hashtags, you know, we're trying to think about what can we do, and sometimes in our feeling overwhelmed, then we either don't do anything, we're not sure how to take in what we're reading. What would be your thoughts about that as it relates to how we can be global citizens in the sins.

Thank you.

Thank you.

There are a couple of things I will say about that. I think one really making sure that we are fighting the narrative in our hearts. So for an assistance, what we consider aid is less than one half of one percent of the US budget. For those who are Americans listening to this, it's really easy to get caught up and like, look at all the money that's going for this, or why are they giving all this money the Ukrainians. We have to start at home. There's a lot we do at home. Americans are very generous at home. We also have social safety nets that just may not exist in some other places. Right Like, virtually every single place my organization does work, there is not social security, there's not unemployment, there aren't medical facilities near them, you know people, So the level of safety net is different. And so we have very desperately poor places in the US that need support, and there are places in other countries that may be even more soft. So it's not an or, it's an and right. And I think especially when you go to these places and spend time these these people are you and me. A lot of times they look like us. They have the same dreams, they want better lives for their children, they care about their family. These are really and so I like to think of it as like, how do we just empower everyone to be able to self actualize and be their best self? So I would fight this narrative of only at home or we give too much to everyone else, because.

There are a couple of things I will say about that. I think one really making sure that we are fighting the narrative in our hearts. So for an assistance, what we consider aid is less than one half of one percent of the US budget. For those who are Americans listening to this, it's really easy to get caught up and like, look at all the money that's going for this, or why are they giving all this money the Ukrainians. We have to start at home. There's a lot we do at home. Americans are very generous at home. We also have social safety nets that just may not exist in some other places. Right Like, virtually every single place my organization does work, there is not social security, there's not unemployment, there aren't medical facilities near them, you know people, So the level of safety net is different. And so we have very desperately poor places in the US that need support, and there are places in other countries that may be even more soft. So it's not an or, it's an and right. And I think especially when you go to these places and spend time these these people are you and me. A lot of times they look like us. They have the same dreams, they want better lives for their children, they care about their family. These are really and so I like to think of it as like, how do we just empower everyone to be able to self actualize and be their best self? So I would fight this narrative of only at home or we give too much to everyone else, because.

You know, the numbers are very skewed. The second thing is look at the full picture of need.

You know, the numbers are very skewed. The second thing is look at the full picture of need.

Right. So there's a lot of attention right now to Ukraine, which Ukrainians definitely deserve the support. There are lots of crises around the world that everyone deserves that same attention that Theyinians are getting. There has been a crippling drought in the Horn of Africa, so people in Somalia, parts of Kenya and Ethiopia suffering and literally starving to death. Flooding and other parts of the world. So don't forget about those other places of help. And I would encourage you to support organizations, even if it's like five dollars a month or fifty dollars here and there, support organizations that are working in those places that share your values, because you know, at the end of the day, the money that we get, like, we're trying to allocate as much as we can to those forgotten crises. So for the people in Somalia, the people in Sudan who need support now the government's falling apart in these air and so there's a lot that's on the news, and of course there's we'll get funding for that, but we're also trying to get additional funds for all these other places that just aren't getting the level of attention they deserve. So stay open hearted, think of it as and not or and whatever you kind of contribute.

Right. So there's a lot of attention right now to Ukraine, which Ukrainians definitely deserve the support. There are lots of crises around the world that everyone deserves that same attention that Theyinians are getting. There has been a crippling drought in the Horn of Africa, so people in Somalia, parts of Kenya and Ethiopia suffering and literally starving to death. Flooding and other parts of the world. So don't forget about those other places of help. And I would encourage you to support organizations, even if it's like five dollars a month or fifty dollars here and there, support organizations that are working in those places that share your values, because you know, at the end of the day, the money that we get, like, we're trying to allocate as much as we can to those forgotten crises. So for the people in Somalia, the people in Sudan who need support now the government's falling apart in these air and so there's a lot that's on the news, and of course there's we'll get funding for that, but we're also trying to get additional funds for all these other places that just aren't getting the level of attention they deserve. So stay open hearted, think of it as and not or and whatever you kind of contribute.

Honestly, even five dollars a month is helpful.

Honestly, even five dollars a month is helpful.

Oh that's so yeah, so practical. Thank you so much for that, because I think there is a way that we just can kind of get like, Okay, well there's so many things. There's so many things. What do I do? And you can kind of look to the think your own value system, and as you were saying, you can find you know, ways. There are various ways that we can be supportive here, and sometimes for people you're like, what if I don't have the five dollars, there's a way you can spread the word. Mean, yeah, spread the.

Oh that's so yeah, so practical. Thank you so much for that, because I think there is a way that we just can kind of get like, Okay, well there's so many things. There's so many things. What do I do? And you can kind of look to the think your own value system, and as you were saying, you can find you know, ways. There are various ways that we can be supportive here, and sometimes for people you're like, what if I don't have the five dollars, there's a way you can spread the word. Mean, yeah, spread the.

Words like spread spread posts so that someone else like might oh, okay, maybe that I can't give right now, but maybe someone else can give, or just even spreading awareness of these other things that are not breaking into mainstream media and realizing like, these things don't have to be like this. There's so much you talked about the fatigue. There's so much coming at us that it just all seems hopeless. They're like, oh, there's always some drought over there.