Hell. I Suck It Dating with Dengler and Dared Haven Heart Radio Podcast. Hello, everybody, welcome to help by Suck at Dating. This is like week five of quarantine. I think four or five six. I've lost track of days, weeks, months. Really, I'm Jared, joined by Dean and Tori via zoom. Dean, how you doing, Bud? Great? Jared, thanks for asking. Um, Yeah, you know, nothing really exchanged since last week. I wish I had a great compelling story to share. I went to the grocery store yesterday. That was my motorcycle got stolen. That's about that the hell. So did anybody find the guy because you posted the I follow a police report. No, no leads, nothing like that yet. But other than that, um, just doing some household chores. Made some benches, that's some kitchen work on the back splash, made some floating shells. You get some housework done. Get some house done. How has that been going? Housework with Kaylin? You guys are like a real married couple, uh wearing rings, you're making cabinets together, as opposed to a fake married couple. Yes. Anyways, who do we got this week? We got our great friend from Bachelor Nation Taylor Nolan, she's gonna come on and talk about sex in quarantine. We're all thinking it. She's gonna start talking about it. And we have Frankie from Too Hot to Handle who is going to come on as well, and we're gonna mails and had like the biggest it's the biggest show right now. It's a show. It's gonna be a show. It's the biggest show, isn't it like number one trending on Netflix right now? Oh? I think he'salking about this show. Well, this show is obviously the best show. It's the best podcast. This is uh, this is a show. This is a great show. So we're the host of let's talk about it with Taylor Nolan. Of course it is Taylor Nolan. Ladies and gentlemen, let's give her a round of applause. Dean, come on, now, this is quite the welcoming. Thank you, thank you. That's what we're all about here. I help my second dating Taylor. How are you? This is not your first time on this podcast? Yeah, I've been on once twice before. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm really doing well. I'm taking it day by day and focusing on what's in my immediate control and just hanging out with my plants and my cat and vibrators and books and lots of hydration. It's been good. Speaking of vibrators, let's jump right into it. You are a sex therapist, correct. I'm in training as a sex therapist, yes, And so how long is training for a sex therapist? So it'll take about two years. It's essentially getting another masters. So I have a few clients that I work with specifically around sex therapy right now, and it's been going really well. Uh, that's pretty awesome. I'm not gonna lie. What made you want to become a sex therapist? Well, when I took human sexuality and my undergrad i'mber like idolizing my professor and thinking it was so cool what she did. But I didn't want to pigeonhole myself or feel like I was trapped in one category, so I just went for my master's and overall counseling. But I mean, sex has always been a topic I light up around. I've always loved discussing it, and I think more throughout my early twenties, you know, six now, and I feel like I've gotten more in touch with my own sexuality. That's made me much more curious, both personally and professionally as to what you know, how we experience sex, how we go about sex in our dating life. Um, it's such a huge part of just being a human, So to me, it just made a lot of sense to get this extra training in it. Are you currently dating right now in the quarantine? Uh? Somewhat somewhat because I know, uh that you had a breakup last last year at some point last fall. I believe I was reading about it. Um. Yeah, And so now that we're in quarantine, I'm very curious, being a married man, what it's like being single during this time. So are you on dating apps and talking to people? So I was on one dating app and was talking to lots of people, Like pre quarantine, I feel like I was talking to like ten different people. It was a lot. Yeah, it was. It was a lot. Um. And granted all those are long distance, so it's not like I was constantly going on dates. But I was always on the phone, always having FaceTime calls. And yeah, now it's I've just gotten way more intentional about where I'm putting my emotional energy. So, um, there's really only one person now that I kind of talked to. It's the same person from September to January. Um, you I think met him Jared Ah. Does his name rhyme with H terrick death. I'm sorry I had to ask. Come on, now, come on, I had to bring it up too soon. I forgot. I just get it out of the way, Get it out of the way. Well, Taylor, because you've always talked about on your instagram's your sex cations. Yeah, yeah, so I had it. We're not having any sex cations during all this, No, I miss I miss sex stations as sex caation is basically a vacation for sex. Um, basically, when you're long distance, I consider every visit to be a sex cation. Um. So I had a partner that I was seen from September to January pretty consistently about at least once a month. We saw each other and he's in Toronto. Um but yeah, now it's like no sex cations and not really dating anyone more, taking this time to focus on my own personal growth. And I love your openness and candidness about It's very refreshing. Thanks. Yeah, it's I mean, I love having these conversations that I love talking about this stuff anyway, and I feel like so much shame around it that I'm like, if I don't care and I can just openly share, then I know it will at least help some people feel less shameful and more open and empowered to explore their own sexuality. Are you getting um uh therapy in the quarantine as well? Like virtually? Yep. Yeah. Part of why I won't be on the second half of this episode because I have a client at two thirty so yeah, yeah, yeah, just doing everything virtually with clients. Um. I've before I was only saying clients one day a week, and with everything happening in Quarantine, I've opened my schedule up a bit, so now I am working with some new clients and take in some some new cases on. So do a lot of the clients you have, are they bashful at first? Do they feel a little bit pure coming to you because of me or just because because topics that they're bringing of course the topics that they're bringing. Yeah, so it depends. Some people are super comfortable and they're just like, yeah, like I shouldn't talk about this stuff, like I'm struggling with this, and others definitely are shy. Some for some people it's their first time in therapy where we go really slow. I assure clients that, you know, the first session, the first months even doesn't have to be you telling me your entire life story. That you know, this is a relationship like any other that's gonna take time to build that trust and build that rapport and for to feel like a safe place that they can talk about these really deep, insecure, shameful things that they haven't felt comfortable to discuss outside of that space. So there's definitely parts of that and we work through it. Why do you think sex is such a taboo topic? Why do I think it's such a taboo topic? Become a part of society. Yeah, uh, not to be anti religion here, but a lot of it does also have to do with how the church has told us to view sex and view pleasure within our bodies. That is a large part of it. UM. A large part of it is also our patriarchal society, UM in terms of women's sexuality being hyper sexualized yet experiencing shame if we actually express our sexuality. UM, you know, we we received so many confusing messages around sex. Even this new show which have to handle on Netflix represents that very well, where it's this thing that we all want, but then we're also going to judge each other for and try to shame ourselves out of. Um, it's we just received so many different messages around it, and um, you know, we don't have any proper education around it when we grow up, so automatically we're left feeling like this thing that's supposed to be this end all, be all, this amazing, pleasurable experience that like if you really want to be cool and you really want to be happy, then like you gotta be having good sex. Yet if we actually ask questions about it, we talked about it, everyone gets uncomfortable because it's supposed to be this private thing that you say for marriage. That you know, our whole concept in our society around virginity, even this kind of innocent purity concept that we try so hard to instill in women. Um, there's a whole lot of reasons and who we feel stame around this. It's weird because we don't talk about it. That's such a until we're older, because it's such an uncomfortable conversation and so like, I'm not afraid to admit this. A lot of things that I learned about sex or from porn, and I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think that's a good thing at all, because well, I don't know, maybe Dean, you have a different I mean, I expect I think that as a young man, I think our first experience with sex is through watching porn. Like you know, I would imagine that most young boys get that before they are being sexually active. Um m, yeah, and that is probably breeds pretty unhealthy habits too, I think within people, and if they're unable to break that later on in life too, it's probably not the healthiest thing. But if for our listeners, then what advice would you have for them, whether they're single or in a relationship in the quarantine? Um, I guess because it's like everything is so different now where you know, if you're if you don't normally live with your signific another, now you're spending all this time with him because you're quarantine together. Or let's say you're single and then you're not having the casual sex that are able to have before. What advice would you have for the listeners, either on one side or the other. Yeah, Well, first I want to answer this discussion around porn quickly, no worries I might need you to like re ask me that question after this. But UM, I do want to touch on the porn piece because yes, it has served as our education UM and unfortunately has taught us a lot of really toxic, unhealthy UH concepts around sex and how we interact with each other. I will recommend Eric Colust. She is a ethical feminist UH in the adult film director and producer UM. She has several different platforms at which she hosts her adult films. One is ex Confessions and the other is Left Cinema. UM. As a woman, porn was not something a I saw myself in. B was relatable, c always felt safe and d that never really actually looked enjoyable for the females in the films, UM, I wouldn't even call them films in your mainstream porn. But yeah, but from Erica Lust, UH, it really is cinema. It is you know, it's very relatable. You see real bodies in there. She is like docuseries around sex where you do actually see real couples, UM from all sizes, all ages. They she has transporn on there, she has pregnancy porn on their Um, it is just a fantastic resource. I highly recommend UM. I posted about it last week actually, and it sparked this whole conversation about porn being this cheating website and extrafficking and all this stuff which do does just represent and kind of mirror back to me all the issues that porn has created in our society. But Um, from lots of research, Air Collest is doing fantastic work in this space because sex workers do deserve to be paid properly. Sex workers do deserve the right to be able to do their work in a safe environment that is pleasurable and is enjoyable for them. Um. And she's really producing all of that. So I'll give that as a as a resource that is fantastic. UM. And Dean, what was your your follow up question there? What advice would you have for the people that are currently quarantined, uh, you know that are having to change their sexual habits because of everything. M hmm. Yeah. So one thing I'm finding is that Fouler either going to one extreme or the other. They're either really getting into sex and they're having a lot of sex right now, or they're masturbating a lot, or they are so stressed and paralyzed by that stress and anxiety, or are super busy, constantly connected to technology and not feeling sexual at all. Um. One piece of advice that I would definitely give during this time is to just be gentle with yourself. Uh, if you are not feeling in the mood, give yourself some compassion. Don't put that pressure on yourself because it will only make it worse. So don't put pressure on yourself. We're talking about pressure that you mentioned the Netflix show Uh Too Hot to Handle. So being a sex therapist and training, what are your thoughts about that show? Yeah, so I've actually had this week we'll have Kell's and Matthew on my podcast, and I gotta say I the show obviously was very entertaining, but I do think it's if I put on my therapist hat. Had a lot of really confusing messages around sex and wasn't super sex positive. Well, they were just sexually charged. They couldn't keep their hands off each other for money. Yes, I'm so curious to see where they found these people because they all seemed so sexually motivated, more so than anyone I've ever seen on the reality show before. Yeah, and you know, I got to say, I feel like a lot of it was exaggerated in terms of how like sexually liberated they really are, because in in the description at least that we're given, it sounds like they are having meaningless sex. Now I'm not saying casual sex, because casual sex can be meaningful, casual sex can have emotional depth to it, but it sounded like what these contestants were having pre show were these drunken hookups that basically they were forgetting the next day right or just throwing themselves out there trying to find love through sex, which isn't always. I mean, sometimes the work, sometimes it doesn't. But unfortunately, I think they were lacking a lot of intention around their sex lives. So I get that the point of the show for them was to you know, take a step back, to allow themselves to be emotionally vulnerable. I think it does reflect our hook up culture in our society, um, but it just it definitely objectified the women. It definitely seemed like, you know, oh, can we can we use our sexuality to get these guys to like spend money, um. And it wasn't the the sexual liberation quote unquote of contestants didn't necessarily feel uh overall sex positive to me. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that it was just such a weird focus for the show to have. I'm not weird, but um and charged with sexual energy. It was just so was I mean, I thought it was a good show, is entertaining at least as far as goes um, but I can definitely see that it doesn't necessarily build the healthiest uh yeah, and especially the part where they're not even allowed to masturbate, Like so what does that have to do with their ability to have a deeper emotional connection with another person? Like, if anything, that's going to help it? And I think most of what we saw were the guys being like, what like that means we can't masturbate, we can't jerk off? What like, how are we going to survive? I've never not gone, you know, a few days without masturbating. You can really see anything from the girls around that standpoint. So I almost would have loved them to been like, you know, okay, everyone is free to masturbate, but like, you know, wait until something I don't even know even putting the pressure to like wait to have sex. It's more like when you actually have been vulnerable and you connect to that person or you're intentional about you know what you want out of that sexual experien rance with them, then go for it. But yeah, that the masturbation piece. I was like, I mean, I'm a sex therapist, but wouldn't the ability to masturbate on that show make it easier to not have sex with other people? In some ways yes, but in other ways not necessarily, because masturbation can be used to increase your sex drive. The more sex are having, the more sex you want. Huh. Interesting, Yeah, buyer beware they're on that one before you go. Um, to change the subject a little bit, we had some news in the dating world that I wanted to get your two cents on and Dean, of course your thoughts on this as well. A celebrity couple guys broke up this week, very sad Christen Cavalery and j Cutler all over ten years of marriage, all done. They're getting divorced. Uh and they have obviously their show. Uh, they have their family, their kids. I think they have three three kids. Um, so what are your what are your thoughts? Ten years of marriage no more christiancabulary and J color what are your thoughts? On a guest. Yeah, I mean, I'll just share here. I think whether it's quarantine times or not, UM, you know, it's obviously unfortunate, but also not necessarily. I mean, if they're not happy in that relationship, then good for them for making the best decision for the both of them. Uh. Divorce and separation is not always a um sad negative thing. Um, certainly you can have whatever feelings you want around it. But for them this might be a really positive step UM in their lives with each other, transitioning out of this relationship. UM. I do think quarantine is kind of putting people in a position where they're forced to really look at their lives and how they're living on a day to day basis, and what kind of energy they have in their lives and what their relationships look like. And you know, who knows, this could have been a kind of environment that pushed them to that and that brought things to light that they were avoiding or that we're kind of swept underneath the rug that now no longer could could be tolerated. UM. I'm not sure, but definitely hoping the best for both of them. Do you have any thoughts? Did they have a statement or anything. I just this is how I'm finding out about it. Like I knew coming into the episode that they were broken up, but it was the I mean, their statement is with great sadness. After ten years together, we have come to a loving conclusion to get a divorce. We have nothing but love and respect for one another and are deeply grateful for the years shared memories made and the children we are so proud of. This is just a situation of two people growing apart. We ask everyone to respect our privacy as we navigate this difficult time within our family. Well, um, have you ever watched their show? I have not, but this really gives you, I feel like, gives you the open door you and calin here we go your own show on. Eh. Yeah, that's perfect. I've never seen the show, but as a Broncho Span I had Cutler as our quarterback for probably six or seven years, and I gotta say I'm impressed that they made it ten years. I think that he's you know, he doesn't seem like he's the easiest got to get along with. He's got a short fuse, if you will, It seems like interesting. I never watched the show either, but yeah, I was never a big Jay Cutler guy for football. I don't know him personally obviously, but yeah, I'm with Taylor as well. I just wishing the best. Uh. I hope that they're making the right decision. It's always difficult, Um, you know, going through these situations with the family. I think three three, Well you have it, Um what else do you want to talk about? Well, you have Taylor because we gotta let her go in a minute. I had questions for you now we've got so deep into it. All right, So you're single right now? I have about another like ten minutes, so perfect. We'll run down some quick questions. One, So you're single right now? Would you ever consider coming back to the Bachelor franchise? Um? I don't know. I'm never someone that's like, you know, I'm going to say no right off the bat, or like try not to be close minded about things. I honestly would be very terrified to do anything in Bachelor World again. UM, I would consider it. What makes you so terrified? Well, I think answer as you will. There's no pressure here. We're just talking. Yeah, yeah, just just a friendly conversation. UM No, I mean I think it's scary just to put yourself out there in general, you know, and going on the show, you never know what's going to happen. You never know who else is going to be there, you never know what kind of situation you're going to find yourself in. You never know what's going to be shown and what's not going to be shown. So it would definitely be a risk to go back on. It might be worth it, it it might not be would probably be like a last minute, like well, fuck it decision if I did do it. I think that's how we all make the decision, isn't it. As soon as we signed the contract, we're like yep. That's how going on Paradise was the first time for me. I was like, well, it can't get much worse than it already was, so might as well try. No, I mean, you were fine X went back on the show, So now it's kind of your opportunity to you know, yeah, maybe maybe I don't know that door is at least openly available to be opened. I guess that's it's not crapt. It's there, but it's not what it's It's just a quick twist the knobs. All you gotta do. Well, you were back on Paradise with Christina on there as well. Right, My thing is like, if I go on, they're probably going to be like plant seed here he is um might be liked. Had you been on that season of Paradise, this most recent one, it would have basically been season four all over again. Yeah, did they ask you basically I was in a relationship. Yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, well that's obviously a good reason not to go. I mean, I probably still could have gone on, but unfortunately not everybody abides by those decisions, those rules, but goes on Netflix like Too Hot to Handle in Love is Blind? Would you do show it that? Or see see? Both of those shows are like so void of sexuality that I like, if I was in the Pods, I would be like wanting to have like a dirty talk session and I would for sure be talking about sex and what their preferences are if we If I was on Too Hot to Handle, I for sure would have been like, wait, but no, I want to be able to masturbate if I want to, and like I want to know how it feels to kiss you, and like, I mean, I guess I would just spend three thousand dollars on it, but it the I'm not immediately interested just based on the concepts of those shows, you know, I would definitely want to show that is a lot more sex positive, but I also understand, like it's reality TV and sometimes we exaggerate things, and yeah, I don't know that. I think there's like great people that go on both shows, but I don't know that either one of those shows would be for me. Um, Well, who are going? I was gonna say, I feel like you're kind of, uh, in a minority group of the Bachelor of franchise at least just with uh, your ability to think like that, don't you sort of with your whole with like your sex positive approach to things. I feel like is uh, it's just unique in that sense within vachelination. Um, I guess, I guess I'm not. I don't. I mean I feel like I don't the people that I fall and like you're the only one that's talking about it, which I think is a great thing. I think it's good to have some representative station in that in that arena. I second that. Yeah, I think it's it's funny because you know, when you look at the franchise, like we talk about Colton being a virgin, and I think Becca so it was also a virgin, right, Like we talked about the virginity piece and Madison, right, we talked about the virginity so much. We talked about like the marriage and all that, But like, where are the conversations around sex and like the the importance of that and how we show up there and having a healthy relationship with sex within a relationship. Um, I definitely do think the representation of that shown on the show is lacking. I think I'm sure people have these conversations and whatnot, you know from the show that are like in their day to day life. But yeah, I feel like I'm the only person that's like selling vibrators on Instagram. So when do you think it's appropriate to When would you advocate someone having sex with someone they're interested in? Uh, first date, uh, second date? Whenever they think it's appropriate, Yeah, whenever they feel like it, When they feel like it's the right time for them, when they feel like they have enthusiastic consent, when they are like I want to do this, not like I can, I can maybe do that, Like I encourage and I hope that people have sex when they want to have sex. So what would you tell people who go on a first date with someone are really sexually attracted to them and like, man, I really want to have sex with this person right now, and they both feel the same way, should they wait or just go for it? I think they should talk about that. I've been on many dates where the first day I'll talk about it and I'll be like, I want to have sex sex with you, and and we'll talk through that and I'll be like, yeah, I want to have sex with you, but I don't want to have sex with tonight, but like I definitely feel like I want to have sex with you. Um, So I think that they should have a conversation about it if they both feel like if there, if they are clear with each other about what it is that they're looking for, right Like if this is a say, a tender day, and you're just like I just really want to be ravaged tonight. I just want to go all out and just have fun sexual experience and then I want to go back home to my cat and like watch Netflix and like chill by myself. Then communicate that and like go for it. I've got a question, all right, I've seen what love is blind. Remember that I can't remember their names. But the point of contention in their relations chip it was in the resort phase his sexual history was putting to question or something like that, and they broke up because Carlton and Diamond, what are your takes on that? Like, if you're meeting someone new and then because in my opinion, the sexual history should be kind of irrelevant to the sexual future, right, But I could see why someone would get upset about it. But what's your take, honest, because that's like, that's a unique situation to like, yeah, so there's so much to dissect from that relationship. First, I think she was very valid in feeling like he intentionally hid something from her. Uh. The point of the experiment before getting engaged was to you know, whether I agree with this or not, to fully put everything out there on the table, to fully be yourself and then engage to this person. And from her perspective, she felt like he had kept it from her and dropped it as a bomb to now be like, well, you're with me. I was worried you wouldn't want to be with me if you knew this. Now I'm telling you because you're already with me, from his perspective, very understandable. You know, not only is it's societally shamed upon men who are bisexual, but especially black men. To have that representation on reality TV and just in our society in general is very rare um and carries a lot of shame with it. So understandable that he would have that fear of telling her. Uh. I don't necessarily think that you need to disclose your entire sexual history to a partner before you have sex with them. Um. I do think that, you know, doing your own processing around whatever shame you are carrying sexually is important and I think if that person is so when you feel safe enough to have sex with, then hopefully you feel safe enough to have a conversation with them about where you're at within your sexuality. Um. You don't owe that person necessarily that whole history, right, but if there are big trigger points for you where you do feel shame, you know, then I think that is important to be open to that. I think he was still in the midst of, you know, battling shame around being bisexual, that he wasn't able to show up and be fully authentic with her because he wasn't accepting himself. Um So, yeah, I could keep going on all that, But so do you think that in relationships, Let's say you know you're in a committment monogamous relationship. You don't think it's important to with to share every sexual encounter your partner or whatever, but like just just the ones that you feel like you need to for the importance of it all. Like, so, I think if there's if there's like a specific sexual experience that you have struggled with, having shame with with with your body, with how you interact sexually, that that is likely going to come up within your intimate relationship. Right. So hopefully if this is a partner that you're in a long term, committed monogamous relationship with, hopefully that's something that you can share with them to have an honest conversation about so that they better understand where you're coming out sexually and so that you can show up fully where you're at. UM and also have that support too, because that's important. We could all use some support. Um. So, I do think that having those healthy open conversations around sex that include things like what turns you on, what doesn't turn you on, um, what you enjoyed from your past sexual experiences. You know, what things you enjoyed doing in in the past can be helpful to communicate to your partner. Um. You know, it's very dependent upon whatever their relationship is. But I think overall we would all be better off if we do encourage and increase the amount of these conversations around sex with our partners in an honest and vulnerable way. It's only going to lead to better sex, exactly. We're all striving that, or it's gonna be like, oh, this actually isn't a person that I connect with, and this isn't a person that I feel safe being sexually vulnerable with. And that's okay too, because there will be someone else. Well let me, I know you gotta go. Let me just ask you one quick question and then we'll we'll end the session. When you said that, do you think sex can get better with someone? Because I've heard that a lot with people who are really into someone and they have sex with them and it's just really not that good, and they're like, but I'm really happy with this person, but I just physically we're having troubles. Do you think that that's something you can actively work on to get better. So it's very dependent. But yes, um, I think definitely the first step in that is communication. Right, you've been having sex with this person. How much are you actually talking during sex? How much with you talking before sex? And how much are you talking after sex? Um? How well do you know your partner sexually? Um? There's a lot of work that definitely can be done within a relationship around sex. But then there are definitely those situations where there's just not that sexual compatibility there, and that is where you know, you do a lot of work and you look at what the relationship is, what it's fulfilling for you. You know, perhaps there's opportunities to transition the format of the relationship. UM. So there's lots of ways to work around it. I don't think you know, if you're struggling sexually with your partner that that means that you're doomed and that you need to break up of them immediately because you're never going to have better sex with them. I don't. I don't stand by that narrative. All. That's a nice little positive way to end it. Taylor Nolan, thank you so much for joining us on help I Second Dating. You are, of course you have your own podcast, which is called Let's Talk About It with Taylor Nolan. What Days? The new episodes come out Thursday's new episodes Thursdays, So everybody watch out for a brand new episode this Thursday with Taylor Nolan Let's Talk About It? And of course you can follow. Uh your Instagram is at tay Mocha. Yep, perfect, Does everybody go follow Taylor? Taylor, thank you so much. You get You're gonna have to come on the podcast because I feel like we can talk for hours. Yeah, I know. I was like, I feel like we're in a great conversation today. I was like, I feel like we could, like the three of us go back and forth on all these topics. Thanks, thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. Stay safe, Yeah you too. All right, welcome back to help. I second dating with a very special guest who was joining us via zoom right now. You know her from Too Hot to Handle, Francesca. Thank you so much, a k. Frankie. Yeah, hi guys, yeah, what do you what do you prefer Francesca or Frankie? Um? I guess Francesca is like the more well known name your puppies. So oh, if only Pappy could speak. But because I always I always called you Francesca on the show, so I didn't know that Frankie was even a nickname until we saw like one time someone called you Frankie. Yeah, close friends call me Frankie and then nice. And so you are zooming in from where exactly? Vancouver? Um okay, so that's where you're like quarantining. Then that's where you live right right now? Right doesn't your doesn't your boyfriend live in Los Angeles? He's in l A right now? Yeah, Harry. The thing with two out to handle that I was that I wish we saw more of, was the ending because it just kind of ended really quick. And I saw you guys talking about your what you're gonna do with your you know who moves where kind of thing, and sounds like you wanted him to come to Canada. So he came to visit and he liked it, but he wasn't really a fan of my friends. They didn't really get along, so he decided he was going to move to l A instead, And right when he moved to l A, we broke up for a bit. So we got back together and I was planning to move literally right before quarantine, and then quarantine happened, so it's everything's been put on hold. What do you mean even't like your friends? She's just like not a fan of my friends. I heard that, but I also heard him say that, like she got rid of them? Did you just stop being friends with them? I did? Yeah, over the friends. That's like completely the opposite of what Destiny's child like. They weren't like long term friends, like I was friends with him for like a year, and I don't know if they were my real friends that they wouldn't be like yelling at my boyfriend. So they were yelling at him. A good situation. But it's okay because I'm not friends with him anymore. So I supposed to be super nice. I thought all Canadians were supposed to be super nice. I can move there yelling. Yeah, I mean not this specific Canadian. She's very nice. But did I have anything to do with when you guys took that break? Because you guys, so the show stopped filming about a year a year ago, right, yeah, it was a year ago, and then you and Harry, you guys took a few months off. If I heard correctly, was it did the friends have some issues with what happened in between, like when you guys were broken up, so the friends, Um, the issue with the friends started before the break, and it was also another reasons why we needed the break because they were just like toxic and not really good for the relationship. So before we got back together is when I cut the friends. Gotcha and now the friends out of the picture entirely nice, smart, It's good, a good choice I think in this case, UM, okay, cool. So for the listeners, obviously we kind of filled them in already. You know, you went on too hot to handle and you have become an overnight creaking sensation. I was just saying, I can't believe you're three million followers on Instagram three million today. Yeah, hey, congratulations, that's freaking awesome. I'm very jealous. It's funny too, because we were talking about Jared and I were saying, and like the first episode or something, you said that Instagram was your job and you've been killing it or something, and Jared was like, well, I'm sure she's killing it even harder now. Well, my question is how excited are you right now because that you didn't need the money because you're baking it in from Instagram, which is awesome. Yeah, it's exciting, but it doesn't really feel it's Honestly, it's not as satisfying as you think. Like the verification, everyone was like yeah, and I was like, like, that's gonna sounds so stuck up. But it's just not as satisfying as you would think. I don't know why. I think it's because I would rather like be with Harry and be experiencing this with him, and because I'm here and he's there and we're like having this crazy life stuff happening, but we're a part just like not as fun not being with him. No, well that's really sweet. I think that's a good sign. Yeah, do you guys have plans to see each other? Because I guess it must be challenging not being with your boyfriend during the quarantine, right, Yeah, so we have Obviously, when quarantine's up is when I'm gonna just like move in with him. So that's right now. Nice, It seems like the better choice than going to Canada. Canada is great? What hell? I mean? That disrespected Canada. But you know you guys are you guys are huge celebrities now basically, so you gotta be in l A for that right, Yeah, reality TV? But um, hey, I have a question, why did you decide to go on the show? Um? The production actually reached out to me on Instagram and was like, we think you'd be great on this reality show. It's on Netflix, like la la la. So I was like, might as well, Like that sounds fun. So I just kind of went for it. And I didn't really know the premise, Like it could have been a show like you guys were on, or it could have been like Survivor, Like I really didn't know. So I was just like taking a leap of faith. Like I was single, so I was like, might as well, you know what you was a dating show, but you didn't kind of know all of the rules going into out. I didn't know before I got to Mexico. I didn't really know it was a dating show. I just kind of knew I had to be single and that it was going to be in the sun. So it could have been like literally anything like Influencer Island or like anything. I really didn't know. But before filming, like before we got onto the retreat, we had a few days in Mexico in the hotel room to just like kind of Chell, and that's when we signed papers. And then I saw untitled dating show on the on like the contracts, So then I was like, okay, dating Chelle, here we go. Ah And then how long were you guys on there at the resort for We're filming for a month? Okay, okay, Because I feel like it just flew by when I was watching, I gues because I probably binge it all on in a day. That's kind of happens best, right, Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that happened that wasn't showing, Like I think it should have been more than eight episodes, But I mean, who knows if there's gonna be a reunion, who knows they're they're gonna be what do you what do you wish they had shown that they didn't have time to put in. There was some challenges and some like fun stuff that happened, and a little bit more drama that would have kind of made more sense if it was added into the reason that things were happening. It kind of would have explained it more to the viewers why things were happening in certain ways. But they can do you do you wish they showed more of Harry's personality because to a lot of people, like of the time, he kind of sucked, which is sad, Oh my god, really not a bad way, but like he for the he lied to you right off the bat, you know what I mean, And so like, do you wish that they showed more Obviously you see, you know, we saw a really soft side of him when you went on the date with I think it was Corey. Yeah, and you know we saw how upset he was and how much he really cared for you in that moment. And do you wish they kind of showed more of that about him? Um? Yeah, Like he was doing sweet things throughout the month, like he would put like snacks in my locker, He would always make sure my bikinis were out to dry. He would leave me towels, like he would make sure my shampoo was always there because the girls would shower and everything to get moved. So he was just very very considerate. But obviously, like they didn't show any of that, but he definitely I feel like me, Haley and him, we're shown in positive and negative lights, but everyone else was shown in like a very positive lights. So we definitely got the brunt of the drama. But I mean, but I like that if it's also gave you them on screen time, So I mean, yeah, and it just shows that you're per and you have both good and and and you're flawed in some areas, which is awesome. Are you still close friends with a lot of the cast members? I was, I'm friends with Haley, I was fat friends with most of them. But there's there was some drama that happened this morning that I was like, I unfollowed Chloe, what's the dramas happened? So I don't even know if I have to talk about this. There was a video that we had to film with Lana the Cone asking us questions and stuff like that. So we were asked, okay, so who do you want to be quarantine with? And what was your favorite moment filming? Her answers that she posted on her Instagram today where I would want to be quarantined with Harry and my favorite moment was kissing Harry. So all right, you the entire month of filming, we were there for a month. You're gonna tell me. You're going to tell the world that your favorite moment out of this entire month, I was kissing my boyfriend. I got we were friends. I wouldn't say that. Imagine if Kells was like, oh, my favorite moment was the shower scene, you know, he would never say that. So I was just like and she was like, baby, you okay, And I'm like, Mmmm, that's not like we filmed this like a week ago. It's not like we filmed this like after filming. That would make more sense. But we filmed this question like a week ago. So she willingly decided that that was her answer after knowing me and Harry have been together for like a year. So, yeah, I have a question, Um, you and Haley kissed right? Yeah? Did you do? You? You know, you're just a really close friends. I when I was watching it, I got the impression that Haley had a crush on you. Yeah, is there any truth to that? You think? I don't. I didn't know that she was saying in her reel at the beginning that she was into girls. I had no idea. So I don't think it was like like a like a romantic love. I think it was more like she had my back and she was like, you know, just like my sibling in the house. I don't think if there is anything I mean, I don't know. I haven't really spoken her about it. I haven't been like, so you got a crush on that's weird. Um, but that's not weird because obviously Harry is your boyfriend and then Haley be your best friend from the Showthers. No like weirdness because you kissed her with him, you know what I mean. He's not He's yeah, he's not weird with stuff like that. Um, okay, cool. So on the last night or whatever night it was, you and Harry went into a room and you weren't allowed to touch each other, and you shocked the world by actually not touching each other. But I we need to know what happened in the room. Then we saw you guys like goofing around a bunch, So just walk us through that night to the best of your ability. So we knew going into it that if we started to have like romantic, deep the heartfelt conversations, that there probably would have been some money lost because we just get lost in the moment. So we kept it as like fun as we could, Like we were just like running around playing hide and seek, like I hid myself in a drawer. He was under the bed, like he was swimming in the bathtub for like half an hour, and I was like, what are you doing? And we just kept it very very very light hearted. Like there were sex toys that we were like whipping each other with, and I guess they showed him like kind of moaning at the end, but I think I was just like whipping him with sex toys or like I was like naked. We were just like having fun with it basically. So I just pooping around the entire night, mooving around. Yeah, there was nothing that wasn't shown in that scene. Was it hard to like to like abstain because obviously, so Jared and I being on the Bachelor, like you can just make out basically as much as you want. There's like like encourage you to go to these rooms to be like intimate with each other. Was it challenging to, uh, like abstain the entire time? I mean, obviously you could. You broke the rules a lot. Yeah. I think the the hardest part about that night was not being selfish and be like, Okay, like let's not do this, but we're not not doing this for us, We're doing this for the group. So we did it so we could prove to the group, like, Okay, well we won the money back, so everything we did was justified basically, So it was more of like an aha moment because realistically, if we wanted to lose the money and say everyone else, we could have. But that was more of like on the show was over too, so you had the you had have very much time. You want now to do whatever you wanted to do in there. Yeah, I mean, well not now because we're not in the same country. But what what did you spend your winnings on? Um? I don't I haven't really spent them yet. Like I started a clothing brand, so that I guess contributed, But I think Harry and I are just going to use it to go on a trip to Paris or something. Clothing line what is it? Pardon what plus clothing line? It's called fair Abul the label like nice little bikinis. Yes, and you said you're going to use the money to go on vacation Yeah with Harry, for sure? Nice, very nice. Do you guys know where you're going Paris? I think fancy. It's like a honeymoon of must The show is over. You guys are now publicly up public relationship, you guys, Yeah, gotta hide. You had to hide it for a year. Bachelor couples they have to hide it for two months, and that's hard enough. Yeah, tell us about how easier difficult it was to hide the relationship. I think it was easier because we don't have like the same follower base, Like mine was like America and his was like Australia. So when we were posting stuff like we're posting in the same cars when with kangaroos the same day, no one could really put two and two together because our fan bases were completely opposite. But other than that, it was actually easy because we could post doing this, like we could post on the same day, like eating the same meal. We just dag each other, so and now you can and then but it was like only a week after the show had to wait a week, So that was like the hardest week because we're like, all we wanted to do was post about it, but obviously we couldn't, so everyone was like, are you guys still together? Are you guys still together? And we just we're finally able to reveal it. So my Instagram is just like all him right now, it's right and you can finally start going in the photo album and start posting a cute pictures that you want to go. Yeah, we have so many photos it's just insane. So you guys are moving to l A together. Is he planning on getting a green card or anything? Because I know that working on it right now extraneous what you need one as well? Um, I think my plan would be because I can stay there for six months at a time, so I would just go and then like I would go back and forth in Canada because I visit my family like once every few months anyway, So I wouldn't like live there. I would just be like visiting and then if I need to apply for a visa to work on Instagram. I'm not sure how that exactly works. But what I see here that you guys got matching tattoos? What they What are the tattoos? Lightning bolt? Yeah, a lightning bolt. I think during the Yoni Challenge, I do a bunch of lightning bolts all over my cat depiction of my vagina, So that it kind of started with that, and then the whole show. There was like a cloud of negativity around us and everything we are doing, so we just tried to stay positive and focused on like all the good that was happening. So it's kind of just like our positivity gun just to like remind ourselves, like, no matter what happens, just like stay positive. And he has the same tattoo in the same place. Do you guys have other tattoos? Uh? Yeah, we have other tattoos, but not not for each other, right right right. I was gonna say, just because if you only had one tattoo and that was the only one, that would be a lot more well not a lot more meaningful. But he he literally covered his hand in tattoos. Now there's like knuckle tats, there's a tat he here, there's a tat here, Like he covered his hand. I was like, it's the most meaningful now, so full influencer. Now you can do whatever he wants. I guess. I guess. So when um end of February, beginning of March, so right right right, So I saw him and then I flew to Ontario to see my family for a bit. And then when I was in Ontario visiting my family is when all this Corona stuff happened. So I was debating on just flying to l A really quick and getting stuck there and being quarantined there. But then justin Trudeau, our Prime minister, was like, oh, healthcare, like if your Canadian come home, come home. So I was like, okay, Like I don't want to get Corona in l A and then be stuck at a hospital. Totally makes sense health care. So I just decided to come home. And so what's uh I mean? Obviously you said you guys are going to go to Paris. But in the relationship, in the scheme of the relationship, especially being from the Bachelor, we always talk about engagements, right, Is there ever going to be an engagement between you and Harry? Think? Yeah, like we have. I'll show you, guys, Harry said on an interview with one of our friends, Lauren Zimo, he's ready to get married to you. He wants to marry you. He knows this. This is our shared folder. Ignore the other. I don't know if you can see, uh for the listeners out there, she has a shared folder. It's a ring like yeah, there, we have one called wedding rings and it's like of like just engagement rings that I like. So he sends you guys are sending each other engagement rings? Yeah, but he is really young, so we just kind of have to take it, you know, day by day, like you're like two, he's twenty three. Next month, if you guys have a reunion show, it's going to go down at the reunion show, that's my guess. Yeah, I hope. Are you guys planning to have a reunion show before everything happened? Um? Yeah, so there was gonna be when we're all gonna fly in, But now with quarantine, I think if there were to be one, it would be similar to um, like Tiger King. I don't know if anyone watched that. I didn't watch it, but there's a reunion for Tiger King. Yeah, it was like a zoom call or something. I don't know. I didn't watch, but apparently it was like with all. Apparently it's juicy but interestedly similar on Netflix of a zoom. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how it works. What's it like dating someone who's a little bit younger than you? I feel like he keeps me young. I don't know. It's a definitely a different dynamic because we don't think the same at all. Like I'm definitely more grounded, I'm more calm, Like I'm just and kind of I have a puppy now, so I'm in like mom mode, and he's kind of in like he's very excited about certain things and stuff like that. But he tells me that he's ready to like settle down. I don't know if we're just gonna have to wait and see, you know what I mean. It's like hard because he's so young, but especially what you talked about it on the podcast. A lot is living in l A. There's a lot different than living in because you're in Montreal, Vancouver, Vancouver. Well, Vancouver's big city, but you know, l A is just like there's not going on all the times. There's a lot to do. There's a lot of sparkly things, you know, sparkly thing. Are you guys both in l A? Yes, you're married? Both of you are married? Right or no? Yeah, Dean, are we both married? Of course? You live with your girlfriend though, right? Yes, my girlfriend's apartment now yeah, yeah, good job. But for he wears a wedding ring, Dean, show her your left hand, uh this one? Oh, the one day you don't wear the band? You know, that's so cute. Harry and I were promised wearings for like the longest time. On our wedding finger. Yeah, Jared, that's all it is, is a promise ring. Man. All right, Well, the reason I'm bringing this on Francesco Dean has been telling us for the past six months earlier that he's married and I can't tell joking or not. Oh I'm sorry, I've been telling you that we've been married. You're the one that has always just assuming things. You're the one who says you're married. Maybe I don't know, maybe you're right, but wait to the Francesca. And here we were wearing promise rings though, Yeah, zooming in on the fingers and be like, oh, did they get married? Did they get married? But yeah, they were just like little promise rings that we had. Um and what was the purpose of the promise ring? Just just show that you, guys, what's the purpose of any promise ring? Yeah? Why do you have a promise ring? You promised to marry that person? Yeah? I like rings ring guy. Yeah. It was basically just because we're like long distance, so it was just like a little like token of our love. What have you learned about? What have you learned about being in a long distance relationship? Actually, this is like my fourth long distance relationship crazy. I'm just like, I don't know why. I just date people in different cities. Don't so you're pro Yeah, I think it just keeps communication lines open and FaceTime as much as you can and just talk all the time about the good things the bad things, like don't keep anything bottled in and don't ignore the person if you're upset. Because how many facetimes per day do you guys have? Every Oh my gosh, yeah, that sounds exha If I'm in the shower, I'll FaceTime. I'll just keep the FaceTime there and then I'll be on FaceTime I doing my makeup and FaceTime WHI I'm cooking, like FaceTime while I'm walking my dog. Like literally, it's kind of like this is That's exactly why I can never do long distance. Uh. There was a time Calin was in Bali and she FaceTime and I was like, okay, well, is there any point that you need to make in the phone call? And there was just like to talk and I was like, okay, well, I don't like I don't like Facebook. That's why I can ever do long distance. I guess it is really hard. It is really hard, especially not knowing like the end date when this is going to be all over and we can move in together hard. But we don't really have a choice right now. So it's not like like do so like see you after quarantine. You know what I mean, you mentioned this earlier, but you guys are moving in together and not seengte this like you're not just gonna move to l N lives separately, but you're gonna live. Yeah, it's like, you guys are back on the show. You're on the show you couldn't touch each other, and now the show aired, you guys are in quarantine and you can't touch each other. It's like the opposite. The temptation isn't even there though, because they're so far away from each other. Yeah. Well I'm sure there's you know, ways to keep the relationships spicy even if you're not in the same room together. Yeah, a lot of us a lot of news ago, you know, was everybody as sexually charged as it came off on the show, Because it seems like everybody, you know, like within five minutes of finding out that you're not supposed to have sex, they're like, oh my god, i I'm gonna lose it. Yeah. I think production did really good job of casting everyone. Like all of our questions were related to sex, like how often do you have sex? Like do you like what night stands? Like? What are your past relationships? Like do you have commitment issues? Like? Everyone put was put in that house for a reason, so they are They all all were really sexed up, but a lot of them, the majority of them didn't like each other, like the girls running into the guys and vice versa. So that's why they didn't have a hard time not losing money because they just like there was no temptation. Yeah, you know what I mean. It seemed like that. It seemed like there was only a couple of people that were like actually interested in other people. Yeah. Um, even the guy that you went on a date with the account and I can't remember his name, but he didn't even try to make a connection with anyone. I feel like you're saying that everyone. A lot of people were like that. Yeah mm, so why do you think that, I don't know, amazing because they knew the sex wasn't there, so they were like there was no point. I'm not sure. Do you think any of the cast members have had sex with each other after the filming? Definitely definitely. Oh can you say which one. Um, well, we're in Mexico together for a bit, and I'm assuming no Rhondo and tront didn't even in Mexico. Sorry. Yeah, we had like a few days and we all went clubbing and all this stuff in Mexico after without the cameras and stuff like that. And I don't even think that Rhonda and Trant did anything. Maybe they didn't, they must have, I'm not sure, but I think Corey and Chloe they all live in the same area, so I think there was a little razzle dazzle there. Um, Madison lives in the same city as Matt, so maybe they, Like I know, there was definitely some hanky panky going on. Yeah, well, it's a little bit different when you're not about to lose not on camera, and it's not on camera. It's a big Was it weird for you and Harry watching it back knowing it was on camera? Um, I'm just really glad that they didn't show anything from that night. It was very very aloof like you couldn't all you could tell. The only reason you could tell that we had sex was because I said it. So the shower scene was more cringe for me with Kels. We word, Um, did you guys watch the show together when it came out? I know. My question was how difficult was it to rewatch the show without each other? It was hard, but we just before it came out, like I just messaged him and I was like, no matter what happens, Um, you can't get grumpy with me. I can't get grumpy with you. It was a year ago. We can't take anything personally because we are where we are now. So it was difficult because I couldn't just like hug him and we were just like texting every like few like half an hour everisode. I was like, okay, all good. I was like, hey, all good, Okay, we're good, and we were just the first day I watched, I just got drunk. I was like, yeah, it's a lot different than Bachelor, because you guys obviously were on Netflix, where everybody could just watch all the season one day. We're Bachelor. It's you know, episode weekly. Yes, you have to prepare exact like it's okay, like this Monday, Okay, this happened, and that happened. And I'm sure you guys the same thing. You talked to a producer and producers like, okay, this, this is gonna be shown. That's going to be shown. Yeah, so yeah, that's got to be crazy because then you never know when it's gonna you know, when technically could hit the fan. You know. Well that's not funny, but more ironical. I guess that you guys were on a show that was so centered around sex, and now you and Harry might not ever have sex with anyone else for the rest of your lives. I'm okay with that. That's a good thing. Yeah, that's that's easy for me. Do you think that, um, the fact that you guys weren't supposed to you know, you couldn't have sex on the show made you and Harry connect more kind of like I don't know how to articulate it best, but like you know, you want what you can't have type thing. Do you think that had any factor? I think what connected us the most was, Yeah, just all the conversations we were able to have without our cell phones and being there for a month, Like yeah we did we did, um have sex, but we were there for an entire month and we were only able to kick I think we only kissed like three times and then got a little down and dirty like once or twice. So it did make us strong. And also everything that happened, so the date with Kels, the kiss with Chloe, the date with Corey, kiss with Haley, like everything made us really really strong. To the foundation that we built on the show was just with like just later, did that make it easier harder for you when you got back into the real world? You think it was extremely hard. That's why we broke up originally, because it was we went from being at the hip every day all day to not having that. So it was just like very emotional. We just didn't know what to do and we're like, Okaye, how long after you guys left did you break up? And then how long were you broken up? Four? We broke up for like three so the show filmed and then he came to see me, I came to see when to see him, and we already get there for like three months. We broke up at the end of summertime, and then we were broken up until like New Year's is when we started talking again. Do you think that made your relationship stronger? Definitely, because I was able to date other people and so was he and we realized that that's just not what we wanted, and it makes us like not take anything we have now for granted, I do think that being in a relationship after the show is a lot better situation to be into, like because everyone that's seen the show and all every three million Instagram followers want to see you with Harry and his with you, so it thinks everything a little bit. That's a little more pressure, I think, Yeah, pressure, yeah, because like if I we get into a foight, it's like, I don't know, Like it's just it's a lot more pressure to keep the relationship happy, I think. But just wait for it. There's gonna come a week where you just like forget to post about Harry, and then there's gonna be people like, oh my god, they must have broken up. They haven't posted to each other. Like that's where the pressure comes from. You're like Jesus, like that's right. Yeah, yeah, you're in this, like you know exactly what this is like because you guys have lived in But it's also really fun because, like Dean said, you also have so many people who were just rooting for the relationship and it h it's it's really endearing. Yeah, it's something I'll never take for granted. UM, So besides the clothing label, what else are you working on? Um? That's basically it right now because with the show out, there's a lot of stuff to do with like brand collapse and the merch and the swim and the interviews and Netflix and reunion stuff and like all of this crazy stuff that we're asked to do every single day. So I've just been like, I haven't even had a good time to breathe, you know, it's just been like crazy crazy. Did you think it was going to get this crazy? I didn't think that I was going to grow three million followers in like a week. That's definitely was not what I was thinking was gonna happen. I thought maybe like a million tops. And I thought it was gonna be the villain. I was prepared that everyone's gonna eat me. I'm like, all right, I'm the villain. It's fine. I can handle this. Come at me like you're fine. It's it's like you said, like this show like like with people like you and Harry, and they show more fast to your personality. The audience gets connect more with you because just like us, it's like, oh wow, they they're not perfect, neither am I this is cool. I like this person. Mhm um, well, Francesca, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Busy Gallley, even though you're quarantined up in where if you come on Vancouver. This guy and his Montreal has got Montreal in the mine. Francesca. Also, I have to say, was Montreal. That's why I am associating our former co host. She's very sweet. Um but anyway, also now, Vanessa, Francesca, my wife also says that you are the prettiest girl in the world. According to her, A thank you that the best. I watched both of your seasons. Actually, oh, thank you when you and Harry moved to l A. Please, we'd love to grab you. Let's hang out that yeah? All right. For listeners, be sure to check her out on Instagram. You can get her to three point one million followers. Or check out her clothing label. It's Farrago the label. Right, you can join us. We appreciate it. Thank you. Congratulations by reality stars more than just like us. Oh you missed her, you've missed Francesca. Yeah, we recorded it. I told I said she Well, she knows who you are. She loves you, She she wants us all to go on a triple date. Yeah, when her and Harry moved to l A. She's a Bachelor fan. Yes, I now, she's a very big She said she's a fan of Ashley because I said, my wife thinks that you're the prettiest girl in the world. And she's like, well, tell Ashley, I love her. And she's like, I watched you know, your season. I know, so cool. Huh good bye. Uh. Francesco was amazing. She's the sweetest thing. I'm very happy for her Harry. I hope they work out moving to l A. I just that's a that's a tall task. But I hope everything works out for I think it will be just fine. I think so too, especially they're already looking at rings. Damn. I guess they've been dating for a while now. Though, when you think about it, the show stopped airing or stopped filming less summer. How's your teeth, Dean? Dean is showing me his teeth for some reason, as Yeah, that makes my teeth look so white. It's mind blowing. Yeah, they look great, they look really white. Congratulations. Um. Anyways, let's take a quick break and we can jump into some emails. Okay, so we're gonna jump into some emails. We have one from anonymous of the title is do I tell my Ex? She says, my X and I have been broken up for over a month now. Post breakup, I was still sleeping with him. While we were still seeing each other. We promised we wouldn't see other people during that time period. He told me he didn't want to be friends with benefits anymore because he wanted to move on. That same night, I began to snapchat another person. Before and after our friends with benefits phase, my ex would constantly accuse me of seeing or talking to other people, but I would tell him no, I wasn't. After he told me to move on, he still proceeded to accuse me of talking to other people, and I still said no because that person I snapchatted for an hour was no longer in contact with me. But we recently started to be on good terms with each other and he wants to start being friends with benefits again but does not want to date. My friends are telling me that because I treated him so badly, I should not tell him and I do not owe him anything. Should I tell him? I snapchatted another person for a little this is weird. So this guy says that he doesn't he's the one who says he doesn't want to be friends with benefit anymore. Right, Yeah, he told me he didn't want to be friends with benefits anymore, but now he wants to be friends with benefits again. But then he's getting piste off that she's talking to other people, right because she needs benefits, you know, and he wants to be friends with benefits again. So if he got jealous but then he says he doesn't want a date or he just wants to be friends with benefits, I think this dude needs to go see Taylor Nolan and really figure out his ship. I think this guy, uh, I think this guy needs to be cut out of your life for good. Probably if he's gonna if he can't be a friend because he gets jealous of the people you talk to, and the only way he wants you in your life his life is by friends with benefits, then just get it, I would say. Scared of the guy. Yeah, I mean, dude, relationships when you break up, We've talked about this a million times. They can get so messy, especially if you're sleeping with that person after you break up yeah, I'm sure you guys have had that experience. I'm sure we've all had that experience where you just it's comforting, right, you go back to your comfort, comforting little spot and you continue sleeping with someone that you broke up with, and you both feel like shit about it. You know. It's that awkwardness where like you you sleep together and it's like, Okay, are we bad together? Are we just friends with benefits? Are we seeing other people? Are we sleeping with other people? Do we need to talk about this? It's just a whole cavalcade of mess. Really, you have like a blanket statement to make the best sleeping with an ex just don't do it all together. I wouldn't say don't do it. You know, it's funny. This is off topic, But I was thinking about our conversation either last week or two weeks ago, but the text and next thing like how it was like USA today or whatever wrote that you should text your ex what you've always wanted to say, And I said, no, kind are we thinking it? No? Not me personally, but I was thinking about our conversation, and I was thinking about my ex, and then I also was thinking about the pandemic that was happening, and something happened to her family member that I was close to at the time. It's just like, should I reach out and just be like, Hey, I just hope everything's okay. I hope you're doing well. I don't want to think that, you know, just because you know I'm married and you moved on. We both moved on that we shouldn't. I don't know. I guess I had new perspective on it when I thought about, you know, the consequence of of of of of of dying one day. You know, No, my am I weird for thinking this way. I guess I don't really understand exactly. So you're saying, because of the definitive nature of death, well you're a considering texting an X. Well, what I mean by that is, I think when we were talking about it the other week, I was more of like, why would you text an X? You guys are ridiculous. It's so it's going to open up a can of worms. It's gonna be terrible, it's gonna end badly. But then I thought about what would happen if I reached out too late, so to speak, like, I know, this is really morbid way of thinking, and this kind of gives you an insight into my psyche and why. Actually it's very frustrated by me sometimes because I've always a pessimist and I always think the worst thing is going to happen. But like, if something tragic happened and I was almost I just felt like too late, kind of like I should have reached out earlier. Does that make sense? So then I thought about it in those terms, and I was like, should we be able to reach out and be like, hey, I just want you to know that I hope you're doing well. I'm happy you're happy, and that's it. How would you feel if actually texted the next That's the thing I don't know. I don't know. This is this is the problem with being Yeah, well as humans, we were, you know, we deal with conflict and jealousy and emotions and and nostalgia, and so you try to like, you know, make the best decision possible by just like narrowing, you know, you know, making your path through all these different thoughts. Uh. And that's the thing, Like I put myself in Ashley's shoes, and I'm like, man, how would Ashley feel if I texted the next How would I feel if Ashley texting the next just to say, like, if you're doing well, can I jump in? Tory, you never have to ask to jump and you just jump in. You're a part of this podcast, Well thank you. But Dean, you are close to all of your ex as. I wouldn't say all. I would say a large majority, like you could still pick up the phone and talk to them and have and you I don't think you would think it's necessarily weird, But how do you how do you navigate that being in a relationship now, because like your Colorado friends is what comes to my brain. M Well, for the record, I would never pick up the phone and call someone because I hate talking on the phone. Um, FaceTime, you could do a call. I would never FaceTime any anyone either. I ignore every FaceTime I ever get. I hate talking on the phone and it's getting worse and worse too. Um. But to your point, it's funny that Jared even brings up this topic because I texted an next actually after that podcast. Uh, she's that She said, she's a nurse. I just text her. I said, hey, thanks for being a nurse during these you know, insane times. And that was basically it. Uh, there's not really much more to the story to add to that, But well, did you tell Klin before? In? No? I I guess I never thought too, but I guess I could. I don't know. To see. That's where I like, if you text the next should you tell your significate on the first even though there's no malicious intent with your text, you're literally like, for you, you literally just texted the next because she's a nurse and you wanted to say thank you for all the heroque stuff you're doing right now, right, But should you have asked Calin or should you tell Calin? Be like, hey, just as f y, I this is what I did. Because does it make it more of a situation if you tell Kalin? I think I think yeah, I don't know. I think that that kind of makes it a little fishy. I don't know. You're right, it's weird. It's weird. Is there an answer? It doesn't sound like there is. It sounds like it's different shades of just uncertainty. Uh. I've been kind of thinking about, weirdly my high school X in this time, and I don't know why, because he was terrible, like he cheated on me with my best friend, but fast forward because I was sixteen. Then fast forward till now. He has dated other people far in between, but is now pregnant with the girl from high school that he cheated on me with your best friend, Yes, I'm assuming ex best friend. Yes, And for some weird reason, I'm like so irritated by it, and I don't know why. Could be kind of me being competitive, of being like damn, like she got the boy. But at the same time, I hate that I'm thinking that, and like I'm still weirdly hurt by it, and I think isolation is kind of making me feel it more. But I've been like so tempted to weirdly reach out, but I can't because there's no direction for me to take that, like graph on the baby, because I don't want to. What would you say exactly? Like I don't know I would say, but I'm so irritated, Like she posted a video. I don't know why I still follow her. She posted a video baby room, and I was like, I don't want that to be me because basically he Al was proposed to me when I was sixteen. He had the whole thing planned, but cheated on me two days before my birthday, what the proposal is supposed to happen. I can understand why you'd be a little agitated by this entire situation. You're happy for him, obviously, but at the same time, it's like, yeah, this is the girl that he cheated on me with. I was kind of hoping that they would just start hating each other and break up and go their separate ways, And now they're having a baby. You're not You're not a horrible person for being a little annoyed by it. I just hate that feeling that like somebody still has that over you in like some weird way. Why are you laughing? I just think it's so funny that that could be you with a husband and kids on the way. If I stuck around Grass Valley, I would have four kids by Now. That's the thing is, you don't want that, So why would you be envious of something that disdrought by something that you don't even want. I don't know. If you guys, everythink about the first person you ever dated or had a real like boyfriend girlfriend relationship with, They kind of always hold a special part of your life. Yes, she ruined my life. She ruined me. That's that's why is this actually a real story. Well, I mean I talked about it at length on the podcast before. She just cheated on me a lot. It's led to some healthy habits. I'm sure you know your boyfriend as a high school or sixteen cheated on you with your best friend. Whether you're willing to admit it or not, whether you can pinpointed or not, I bet you there's still some lingering issues that you have because of that. I hate to admit it, but I think you're right. Yeah, it weirdly like makes me emotional. You guys, Like, why am I tearing up right now? Like I don't know what's going on. I'm like literally getting tear yat and I think that like I'm just like really struggling with the fact of like being in isolation, and like it's just it's like that weird situation of like you never really did anything in high school to deserve that pain and then you guys, I don't know why I'm crying. I think I need to get out of no. But and then like and then like he, I know they're not necessarily happy, and I don't want to say that they're not, but like he clearly has underlining issues. And I'm sure she does too, you know, I mean, I knew her really well, but like it's just weird where you're like, oh, like what did I do to deserve that? The age of sixteen? And you have to grow up so fast in those positions, you know what I mean? Well, I think the thing about being that age two. I feel like you can correct me if you guys think I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the way that you love someone when you're sixteen is so much more like passionate and fiery than you're able to later on. Like it's just a different feeling. It's a different love, and so you lack perspective, which means you're more passionate about that person totally right, right right, because you don't know as much. And so you're like you like, yeah, when I think back to how I felt when I was cheated on when I was six sixteen as well, it was like my whole body was like exploding, you know what I mean. And then later on in life when I got cheated on, it was like less of a big deal, but still a big deal, and you know, things just you have more of a world outside of your relationship I think is what it becomes, but you still like hold on to a lot of the things that you learned from those first relationships. So I think it's okay that you feel a little disgruntled about it. You're crying, letting it out. I hate tears. But it was weird, like hearing the conversation from the last podcast, and sure a lot of our listeners are thinking the same thing. It's just like being a self isolation, you really like have time to think about all of your past relationship have zero distractions. So yeah, and mm hmm, definitely. And I could definitely tell you that I grew up in a smaller town and so it felt like a bigger deal than what it is now. And I know that, but I think that I still carry a lot of that like her and pain of like am I even like worthy to be in a relationship with anyone, because clearly, if that's how somebody loved me in the past, like that's kind of like what It's just when it's like such a young age too, it's like you can't even really like let those fars feel. You just became more of like you had to push through and act like everything's fine, because at that young age, you're like, it's kind of a maturity thing. You're not really evaluating his brain versus yours, or his penis versus and horny nous, you know versus other penises. Yeah, we get it. I mean from I think Jared and I from small towns too, And it's always funny to like think about those places because a lot of people from those towns, you know, they graduate high school, they either stay in the town, go to college. A lot of people after graduating college go back to that town and just kind of continue on the same things that either their parents were doing or whatever they were doing before they left. Uh. And that's great. If that's what makes you happy, that's fantastic. That's not personally something that I would be interested. And it doesn't seem like either of you guys are either. Obviously, you know, you moved to Los Angeles and you're doing all these things. Um, it's just it's kind of hard. It's like apples to oranges, you know, you can't really compare those types of things. Is it a funny? Little Tori? Because you have this such emotional attachment to this guy that you dated in high school because of what happened, But picture yourself with him now, Yes, would you really even want to be with him? No? And that's why I can't tell if it's me being like competitive with the fact that like she got the boy now or no, I agree because I was thinking about this too. You know. It's it's like, well, you know, you think about like that first person that you loved and had so many memories with, and you know it's still brings back like pain and love and all these different things that you experienced together. But then in the present moment, I think about, you know, the person I am now being with the person they are now, Like it would never work. I don't even know if i'd want that relationship, And so why am I so why am I so impacted when I think back upon what we had when I know it wouldn't be the same right now. I think. What's also really hard, though, is that we've moved to a city that's very um like wasteful kind of with relationships or human connection, and so it's like sometimes I come I'm conflicted where I'm like I almost would rather be in more of an isolated place and maybe a little unhealth like that's like a little unhealthy, but still be with someone because then we move to l A where there's so much so there's like so many options unless uh, I don't I don't know, really know how to. I feel like I'm hitting that point with like living in l A where I'm not ready to settle down, but I'm almost like frightened on the fact that there's not even like someone out there that I could settle down with because but back in a smaller town there were a lot are options, but they weren't maybe as healthy. I don't know if by making sense, but it's like it was with l A. And then it's like what now you know, it's like that's not necessarily better or if anything, it's kind of harder to make a human connection. Well, it's sometimes it's just easier to make a choice when you have less options in front of you. You go to like a uh what are those things called it? Corral? Uh, the corral, bufe, grand kraal, golden kraal. If you go to a golden I was like, where's he going with? This? Was like crane barrel. You got a million options in front of you in terms of what you can eat. It's almost harder to make a decision and you kind of want to try everything. I mean, do what really need to look at the menu? If you have a menu of like three items, it's just so much easier to choose and get content with your choice. It's kind of like this is a weird analogy, but it's kind of like TV. Like how many times do you go on Netflix and you spend more time trying to choose an option than actually watching a movie or documentary TV show. It's just because there's so much and it's similar to dating now. We're we're exposed to so many pole, whether it be dating apps or cities or you know, computers and technology, social media, that you just there's so many options that you're like, well this person is that, but they're this person is actually better at this, But then that person has that, which I like too, and it's just so confusing and convoluted. Will you let us know if you end up texting him? Well, there's no way because after I respect their boundaries and the fact that I mean they're not married, but that they're having a kid together, and I do wish them the best obviously, and I want that kid to grow up in a healthy atmosphere. But he's not. He's not a great guy like at all, So how will they end up getting pregnant? I know it's very murky. Um. I'm not going to speak on maybe how murky it got, but I think that there definitely was some cheating, um, and that they kind of always fall back to each other. And then I think that this, and my assumption is that this is a way that she was able to tie him down, because nobody's been really able to tie him down. So I again, and I don't know, and I honestly genuinely believe that baby is going to grow up with I know his parents are amazing. I know she has a great dad um and family, but so I need to respect that. But there is just in the back of my head that I'm like, oh, like I hate that that still lingers in my head sometimes that I'm like, she literally got him, and like I didn't even get the chance to be like I don't want to be with you or whatever, you know, but it's it's it is what it is. I mean, it sucks now and I feel for you, but it won't last forever once this quarantine ends and you start act, you know, seeing other people and distracting yourself and working and going back to your normal life. Those feelings will subside. It's just tough everybody's going through right now. You're in quarantine. You've got nothing else to do but except just think about things. We're all we're all going a little a little crazier day by day. Um. We we're gonna answer another email, but I don't think we have time for that because this has been a long episode. So I'm just gonna go ahead and sign off, Tori hopefully if you better. Thank you, yeah, um, thank thank you to Taylor Nolan and Frankie from Too Hot to Handle for joining us today. Be sure to check Taylor's podcast out and all that good stuff, but be sure to tune in next week as well, because maybe we'll just suck a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast