Dean and Jared hang out with Bachelor fan and comedian Heather McDonald. And, as a die-hard Bachelor fan, Heather has some thoughts about Dean’s time on Paradise. (as well as Kim and Kanye's marriage...hmmmm)
And we talk to David & Annie from 90 Day Fiance! Their love story brought them together from completely different parts of the world and they’re ready to share how they make it work between their two cultures.
Plus Dean has a DIRTY confession.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Hell I Suck At Dating with Dean Vanessa and Jared and I Heart Radio Podcast. Hello Sucky daters, thank you for joining us on another episode of Help I Suck At Dating. My name is Dean. I am joined as always in studio by Jared Vanessa is out today with some family, um things going on. We won't talk about that too much. But Easton is here as well. Mark as always here, well not has always. You've been here a lot lately. We missed you for probably a good job. Yeah, well, we're we're glad to have you here. Packers are playing well, so you're talking to um. We have a very special episode for you guys today. We have David and Annie from ninety Day Fiance. They're going to come in and talk about their relationship a little bit, how it works, how it's a little unconventional about how they make that into great music with each other. Wow, that was a difficult sentence to music with each other. We're gonna have heathern McDonald in here as well as a stand up comedian. She has her own podcasts called Juicy Scoop. You can stick that out anywhere you want. But we'll get in that a little bit later. But Jared, how's everything in your life going? The life is good, the Patriots or six and things are good. Halloween's right around the corner. We've been to some Halloween stuff. Do you have your Halloween costumes planned out? No, I'm not a big Halloween costume guy. I like getting into the spirit of things. I'm really just fourteen years old at heart. But we went to the thirty one Knights of Halloween put on by free Form, which is pretty awesome. They recreated the Sanford Sister Cottage, which obviously is from hocus Pocus. Obviously guys, anybody Anybody Hello, Hello, which was really cool. And then they recreated a Nightmare before Christmas. Uh, And they did a lot of Halloween movies. It was really cool. So getting in the spirits that I wanted to talk about a tweet that you put out Dean, Uh, not too long ago, just about fourteen hours ago. Uh. It's an interesting one. First of all, your profile picture is still you with Nala for many years ago. Looks like your short hair, your tan, you look you're twenty three in this picture that's in Uh. Is that Nebraska Lake McConaughey. It's a great picture. You haven't aged a day. Thanks, It's really kind of you. I was a lot more ripped in that that time. This picture, my girlfriend took that picture of me. Yeah, that's not photoshop, don't know that's that's legit, No anything even either, no filters, that's just me be and me looking all hot. Damn. Anyway, what do you get at here? Jared? So you tweeted fourteen hours ago, it's been eight days since my last shower. I'm O m W, which for all you old people out there, including myself, that means on my way these millennials can't spell anything out of you on my way to Kalin's now. So I told her I'd stop off somewhere to clean myself before I get there. She told me not to because she wants to know what I smell like, and I think it's important people know this. I'd like to point out is that this tweet has thirty one thousand likes. Let me add one there you go there, one thousand and one leg So that means that thirty one people like that I'm smelly, or thirty one people like that I wanted to shower. I think people like that. Kalen's going to find out how you smell, to which she has updated us everybody. Yeah, I was excited about this. Yeah she did thirteen hours ago. It's really good that you know what your girlfriend's tett. So she retweeted yours and she goes update. He doesn't smell great, but he smells a lot better than I thought he would. I was. I will say it days is probably exaggerations, probably more like six, but you know, just I wanted to be over a week. Well, it's not that much of an exaggeration. Then. The last time I showered was when we left the hotel in Hawaii together. I flew from Hawaii to Denver, where I picked up my van and drove straight to Red Rock National Park in Las Vegas, where we rock climbed for every six day I did. I did the dishes today and I thought I was being productive. You know, the flight alone would get me in the shower. Yeah. People get pretty like weird out on flights and how dirty they are. And I don't disagree with that. Yeah, you just put dirty in quotes when talking about an airplane. It's pretty dirty, kids, diapers on the trail. I understand these things, but also I don't have access to a shower like all you other people do, where I can just jump in and clean myself off. What am I supposed to do? I landed in Denver, I got dinner with my brother, and then I basically took straight off for Las Vegas. Vegas. Well, that's National Park is just outside Las Vegas. So where where were you staying in Vegas? Well, we stay in my van. Don't you have the whole point? What about this gym membership thing that you were going to shower? I don't know. Here's my thing is. It's like I kind of enjoy being dirty. I think that I am very comfortable just being a little dirtier than the regular person. And I'm totally okay with that. I'm and I feel a little of uh what's the word credic like not judged, judged because of that, just because my basis for comfort is a little different than everyone else's. Well, listen and talking about my comfort. I remember the way your feet smelled in Vegas. Was wearing shoes with no socks all day, and then I put flip flops on and then it was like some residual aroma. I've never you've never smelled. I listen that was the only time it was your feet, and it wasn't because of the showering, was because the shoes. So the funny thing is about this tweet in particular, it's it was, you know, six to eight days without showering shore. But we were also like rock climbing pretty pretty heavily every single day, so we were like sweating and like getting dirty. It's a lot of sweat, and that's a lot of accumulation in some weird areas. But it gets worse because, uh so I picked up one of my best friends from high school who was in a fantastic rock climber and he like encouraged me to do all this stuff, and so I was like, yeah, let's like go on a mission somewhere. And we decided Red Rock Canyon and we were like, I was like, I have an extra bed, I'll just set that up up top for you, or we can set up the tent and one of us can sleep in the tent, one of us can sleep in the van. We like went out and got a bunch of groceries. Um, we ended up just both sleeping in the van together. So it was just too stinky dudes sleeping in a van for like four five consecutive nights in a row, and I can only imagine, like, to me, it's most normal in there, right because I've just like, come, my nose goes numb to the smell, become comfortable with it after a certain amount of time. But if someone were to get in the van now, I bet you they would like take one way and be like, wow, this is really bad because it's just too smelling. Dudes, in the entire time, it's like a whole new like atmosphere, and they're like a Patriots, just like you. The window of the van just green smoke comes out. It takes a little bit more momentum to move you through the air because it's a little thicker. I think, you know, it's not quite as crisp as the air that we typically walk. So you might know this. What is the What is the downside of not showering besides smelling? Is there some harmful bacteria? Actually I think they're positive to it. I think because showering strips you if your natural oils, it dries out your skin more. Not only that, but I also want to make the argument that uh, exposing your immune system to like micro for like two small amounts of like bacteria helps strengthen it and helps fight other bigger diseases. Why do I think that's a bunch of bs that you have no the way it was, the way he started it. I want to make the argument that this is true. I'm not saying that I'm basing this off of any scientific fact. I just think that it helps me find solace in the fact that I don't like to clean myself very off. And they say that with kids that are forming immune systems, you should let they should be less um meticulous about them washing their hands. You should let them go play in the dirt and then have a sandwich, you know, because it builds their immune system. I'm not sure it works when you're when you get a flu shot every year, they're injecting you with the minor strand of the flu viruses. When you become your immune system can fight it off. This is basically the same thing just in in everyday life. You're just basically introducing small bacteria into your immune system to that and help could fight something big your diseases. And I don't really get sick ever, Like I get sick maybe once a year. I think that's probably less than average. And so here my my philosophy with it is, if it's not broke, why would I fix it? Like things, things are working well for me, So why would I go about doing anything differently than I like doing them? You know what I mean? Do you ever sample your own smell? Like, you know, swipe a finger in a tender area and give it a wip and see what's going on. I will say, one thing I've learned by living in the van is my biggest ally is wet wipes. Wet wipes are phenomenal, and you basically and survive living in a van without them because you'll do you know, anybody listening living in a van, you'll get some chafing. But and and to Mark's question, like, sometimes I like reach above my head to grab something out of one of the cabinets or something like that, and I would smell myself and I'd be like, wow, it's pretty bad. Even by my standard, that's pretty bad. And yeah, I mean, yeah, you said you said you might stop off somewhere and shower on your way to Kitlin's. What was the plan there at the gym? Well, so when I said that we were going to camp in Vegas or at Red Rock National Park with while we were climbing. What we ended up doing, actually we was we were just sleeping in the parking lot at the casino every single night. So we would just like rock climb all day, going to the casino and like gamble for a couple of hours, maybe like oh we saw the Joker was really good. We would get dinner there. Um. And so my plan was, like I called, I was like, hey, like, I'm headed over there. I'll be over there in the five hours four and a half hour drive. Um, I can like rent a room or like find like a truck stop to shower in before I get there. If you want me to, just like to spare your nose. And at the tap of a finger so quickly she goes, no, don't shower. I was like, I won't shower. But why she was, I like, I want, I'm curious to know what you smell, like like I want to know how bad it is. And so when I showed up last night, I got there probably like eleven fifteen pm, she like, basically like I merely picked my arm up and smelled my arm and it was pretty good for her. She's a strong woman, I thought it was hilarious. It's just, you know, it was good on her for doing so. It wasn't as bad as we all thought it was going to be. Well, and Easton talks about this too. I'm not you know, sometimes I smell bad, but it's not really that bad. It was a smell. I'm pretty fortunate to be like a not like a good smelling guy, but not like a really bad smelling guy either. Um, I think, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to tell you, guys. I showered today, I showered last night. I used sampoo, conditioner, and body. So what's the longest you guys have gone without showering? Three months? Oh? Wait? No, was it really three months? But I was like twelve and I was like swimming every day. How do you remember these things? Because remember my memory that bad? Or is that is your memory that good? It was the best summer of my life I was. I think I was six or ago and seven. He literally didn't shower, like from the school let out until school began. Wow, the best time of my life. What about you guys? I don't know. Two days like I don't remember the three days? Maybe? Yeah, three days? I went camping when I was like sixteen that I've showed at least once every single day. I think. So although I don't wash my face, some people are weirded up by that. I think I just started watching water rends it off with the water. I don't use any soap on my face. Why I know. I read something once that said natural oils it will prevent miles. Like doing that again, you get your information correct. I'm going to go ahead and make the point to that Planet Earth probably likes me a little bit more because I'm showering less. Well, look, the human race survived for many millions of years without soap and shampoo and body washed life expected. He was a lot shorter. But we're from like sabertooth tigers and things like that, and we're living in homes, not caves. But to Mark's point, through the evolutionary span of a human of that we spent not showering every single day, if at all. So there's things that we adopt now and like as part of the humanoid lifespan. It's all very very very very new. That's all because of like the obviously like all these new inventions like showers and processed food, which is another thing that we could talk about, but that's not really important. It's very important, but it doesn't pertain to this podcast. But I agree with you, I don't really. It was funny because when we were overseas in Europe and eating um Italian and grease food um there, we never felt you know, if you eat a big meal here, you just feel gross and you're bloated, and you can tell that your body is just fighting it off because it doesn't know what it is because it's all processed over there. Never bloated, never felt like crap, and we would eat pasta and fish and you know, protein and whatever we wanted. And it's and we've come to learn because everything is processed over here in America everything we're not past side. Not only that, but the thought of breakfast, lunch, and dinner is still a relatively new idea within the past ten thousand years or so. Yeah, well it's yeah, I think that's like a class thing. I think it started off as a class thing. Didn't probably, but only within the past ten thousand years. That's my point is it's like we just get conditioned to do these things because we're just told what's right. I mean, yes, showering every day probably is the right thing to do in today's world, but at least every other day. Why to fight those traditions? Why fight them because you think they're fundamentally wrong or unnatural for humans to shower and eat three meals a day, morning, midday, and evening. Do you just want to go against the ground. I think that our brains are transforming faster than our bodies are, and our bodies can't adjust quick enough to this new style of living. Our our bodies on evolved over ten thousand years as much as our our way of living has, you know what I mean. So it's like we're changing all these things so drastically. I wouldn't even argue the last ten thousand years. I would argue I mean really the last fifty to sixty years if that. I mean, you think about technology and how fast that's moved. Think about I mean, the first iPhone was what created in two thousand and four, I think it started. It was it was made of that seven Maybe think about that and think about not living with your iPhone. We don't even know what this thing does to us. That's insane. Remember when cell phones first came out and they said, don't put it against your head because of the waves coming off and it'll give cancer and radiation. And then like, I still think there's something to that. There definitely is, but nobody knows the ramifications of cars. I false, there's nights I've fallen asleep with this thing next to my head, Like I'm curious how much how dangerous that is, and nobody knows because it's just everything happens so fast. You know something I think about a lot. Everyone I know that's that's having children right now is having problems doing it like I've never known. Some of people are using I v F and things like that, and I'm like, we got these nuclear reactors strapped to our freaking going ads all day long. I don't know. I don't know. That's two tinfoil hat, but that's something I don't think it is. They're making pants with lead interior pockets now, and bluetooth as well. Bluetooth seems scary to me. It's it's gonna be a culmination of things though, like the phone, the food that like the all these like work stress, Like everyone's probably more stressed at work than they've ever been. Extra sensitive this because my wife had a salivary gland tumor removed from the side of her head that she holds her phone on. And no doctor will tell you it's from cell phones because still gets sued. But if you look into this, there's but a dramatic increase in salivary gland tumors since the late nineties, which is when we all started using cellphones. Yeah, it's scary. I think it's very scary because I think within the next thirty to forty years, once this generation starts getting older and passing on, well, I think we're going to find out a lot more about what this thing does too. Well, it's like vaping. Vaping is just sped up, Like everyone started vaping and then people started dying from vaping. Oh crap. Everything else is bread up by years. Smoking took us thirty years to figure out that was killing us. Who knows what this stuff is doing. Headphones, Like I walk around with headphones in my ears all the time, not just around my ears, Like these headphones in my ears, Like when I really think about that, that's insane. And like you said, Blue Tooth, Hey, how does the music from my phone get sent over imaginary air? The air is not imaginary, but whatever waves they're using to get from my phone to the air. If you're beating something into your head and they're like in there, those are your pods, you know, I mean, and you can do it on planes. So I'm not only am I sending some sort of radio ways from my nuclear phone that's in my pocket to these these things in my head pretty much, but I'm doing it thirty five thousand feet in the air, which, by the way, I heard a stat I don't know how accurate this is that you are exposed to the most radiation while flying because closest to the sun. Let's all go live in vats here. I'm with the I mean, yeah, you guys always want to welcome to come. We've got a really great episode for you guys today. Thank you for sticking with us through all that. Uh, David, Annie, Heather, They're all going to join us later. But before we jump into having David and Nanny on, we are going to take one quick break. Welcome back to help, I secon dating myself, Dean, Mark Easton, Danielle, I don't know where Tory is. We're all here. Vanessa is not on the podcast this week. She'll be back next week. But we have some very special guests that are also in studio with us. You know them from the t LC hit show ninety Day Fiance. It is David and Annie Tobarowski. Actually, yeah, it's nervous Tobowski. I've been practicing in my head and I'm fifty one years old. My father says a little bit differently. You know. Look, they were brilliant. They came across from Ellis Island running from the programs and they shortened it from Topolowski to Tobarowski. It's a really great way to start our journey in America. Yeah, where are you from? My family originates on both sides of from Lithuania, Russia, in Poland. Where were you raised? A New Jersey Okay, I don't sound Jersey. Well, I mean my my my wife's families from Jersey. And congratulations to you on your wedding. Congratulations to you as well and your marriage and so the little wedding advice that we always give everybody is if the two of you stick together, nothing back going to happen. And always put your wife first, make her always come first. You can't go wrong with that. This is what we tell everybody I mean, these are words that I live by, and I also love how you said put your wife first. And then Andy, you're like, yea, put your wife first. But what about Jared's needs and wants? When does that? What doesn't matter? When she's happy, happy wife, Oh, happy life, happy husband, happy house, happy husband does If she's unhappy, you're miserable. If she's happy, you're content. So it's just the way you look at it. Now. We always you say you have to laugh together, love together, and most importantly, the things that keep a relationship going. That's it. And I always tell everybody our relationship is like fifty first dates and the one that's my age too. Every day I have to wake up make sure she falls in love with me again. So that's kind of my relationship advice anybody out there, So tell us you gonna give us like some insight on what you do to make your fall in love with you every day. I mean, obviously not like exactly what you do everything. It's just like, well, I mean, let's outside the bedroom, um, but go to the grocery store so she can cook in the bedroom, so we can just take care to go to the Asian market. There's nothing that makes a Thai woman happy. Then going to see chili spices, red curry, yellow curry, and fresh like you know, stream chicken fresh ingredient. But you know, honestly, David, he is really uh sweet man. You know, wake up every day he gave me a compliment. You know, you look so beautiful, you smell so good, even I don't shovel for days, and so good. Came and tell you that, Dean, that you smell so good in the morning. And if you haven't showered in eight days, pits what can I say? And that's why I carry Polo black by the bedside exactly. So what's it like for you to to be in an interracial uh marriage? Is there are things that you've learned about her culture and then uh An, the same thing is there are things that you learn about his culture that has been difficult to acclaimate to. Absolutely, yes, because you know where I come from it's very different than America. So I have to learn a lot, you know. Thank you for David's family. They open their hearts and they are you know for me, it's even No, it doesn't easy as far as but right now Via in the bad to press absolutely I think in any relationship. I think that's why is so popular. It's not just relationships, but now you're taking cultures. I mean you look at all the travel channels. Everybody loves when they go overseas. Nobody cares when they go to like you know, Pulaska County, Kentucky and eas Squirrel, nobody cares about it. But when you go and you see Asia and you see Europe, you see South Africa or South America and Africa, people like, wow, what are they eating? What are they? And that blending of culture plus relationship is why I think Fance and the franchises are so successful. Is because then you add the visa requirements and how to coexisting culture. And I lived in Thailand. I worked in Thailand and China, so it was easier to acclimate your culture. And there's still things that are different, even just the dietary things are very different. Can I ask you a two part question? So you guys met in Thailand, how did you meet? And then on top of that, how did you guys get involved in many day fance? Um I was working in China when we went, I was on holiday and it was the teacher in China, so we actually met through a mutual friend who had a travel agency next door. The way the bars are is if you know in Thailand, you know if you go to the tourists area that we have a tonch of a dozen of bar and yes like that, you know. And I'm waiting for but I think it to go back to my hometown because my end da didn't have a shop. And I wait at the agency friends and she wasn't open yet. So they were having a birthday party. Guys all bars have and they have like singing, They bring a band and they have karaoke here. But he just say so that's when I heard her sinking. It was like a voice of an angel. I said, can I buy you a drink? And she drinks? She but no, you can buy me a dink. Okay. Her English wasn't as good as it is now. We're getting better, you know, yea. And then we went out and our first date was actually we went to the Cambodian Yeah, which is right near Cambodian, Thailand. And I fell in love with her when I watched her because she wasn't buying stuff for herself so much. She was buying for her brothers and for her parents, and that's the kind of relationship you want is where it's family, and her family is a prevalent part of our lives. Our water buffalo they're doing well and so that whole dowering stuff. There really is a significant suets and it's respecting the culture. And I think that's why we get along so well. As you know we went, we were just there when we bring your mom as a gift, she was, Oh, let's pick up cal placenta so they can have a barbecue. So we're stopping at a farm picking up colpula center. I'm like, you know, that's not every day you travel. How about a diamond, you know, how about a gold bracelet? She doesn't. I've heard that people cook with placenta. That's actually a thing. It's very DeSUS. You have to try. And when the water buffalo is everybody will get around and night waiting for this so they can cook the placenta and um, because you know, eating people. Yeah, if they don't wait for the presenta, the water buffalo, they eat the presenta. So they have to fight for that. So everybody's just fighting for the placenta. Yeah, I thought that. I mean, I saw like I'm gonna get judged for this pretty harshly. I was watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians for a hot second once and Kim was talking about like eating the placenta from one of the bab not only human placenta, but also not that cannibalistic. Yeah, I would imagine probably that would be against that, but I could have sworn she talked about eating her baby's placenta or something like that. You know, nothing, anything is possible on and we won't talk about I'm not going to dry and keep up with anybody Thailand. And then how did the day fiance come about? Well, a friend of mine I saw the casting call for it and let me kind of te the genus. I was at a very bad point in my life when I went to Thailand. I had went through a divorce and lost everything. I went there, I lost a lot of weight. Coming back to America, I've refound out here. Well I've got to lose about eighty pounds, thank you, um. But I went over there and I started working, And then I went to China, and I was working first as an international teacher and sharing my stories because a lot of guys my age who went through divorce and I was forties. Some of that time after the economic crash took their own lives and it was been very easy to go that direction. And one isn't his friend right now. He's very you know, doubt and so trying to share that life to say you can start over at any time. There's never a finale. Taking your life as a finale and it's not a great outcome. Uh. And I restarted my life and I have never been happier. Um, how did you restarted? Walking? Um? Teaching over there? Just you know, I was raised Jewish, but I you know, wear a boot to and just from a spiritual standpoint, and then of course any coming into my life and then sharing that on ninety day has been It was hard. At the beginning. We had a lot of trials and tribulations that the drama is real. I mean it is. You know, we were not in a good place when I came back here. I wasn't prepared for it. I've been living in Asia working, had a two bedroom condo there, and it was hard with the kids and you know they're older, my children, and it was tough. Now we're in a better place where in Scottsdale. We love pillow Talk because we love watching the show. I mean, as I said, it's fascinating to talk about other cultures and you see whether it's in Nigeria or in South Africa and of course Thailand, which I've been to sixty three countries in my life, either work or travel, So it really for me is a passion and to see relationships, especially the interracial, which is kind of your going back to even your two parter in your original question. Um, Yeah, for those of listening who don't exactly know how ninety day fiance works, it's, uh, pretty much couples that are doing long distance, yes, some couple and exactly that they have they're doing long distance relationships pretty much, uh, and then they have to decide within ninety days whether the engagement is going to turn into a marriage or that they're going to go there because of the K one visa itself. So you must and this is not a you know, you must be married by ninety day. If not, I have to go back to your country. You can't do an adjustment of status if you're married on day nine two. Now, were you both in agreement that you guys would get married and moved to the States, or was there any inclination of possibly staying in Thailand. Well, no, I mean we when we came back here was just staying to make a better life. It always has been an option to go back to Asia because I miss it there. I missed the one and you're the one that wants to really stay in the day, Yes, but there it is the one who wont you know, he's ready every day, every every day when he wake up, I'm ready to go to Thailand. I'm ready to go to Thailand, you know. To me, I want to stay here roking hort steps some money and go back to you know, yes something sometimes. And we've been doing well with things, I mean Annie, and we've been doing tight cooking for dinner parties. We've been going around and you know, doing things. She loves to cook. I mean that is her passion, not clearly brand me because you you know, you sneak a food in the future. It's not even the one I cook, the one you gets from the fast food you like a rat at night. Um. You know she that's why she fell in love with me. She saw the way I eat Jack in the box tacos, which you can do that to me I'd love you forever. I will say chicken pat ties on my favorite meals of all time, it's um that is a good one, our favorite because we like spicy. I would say, is the yellow curry, the red curry um quaking, which is a Southern Ti dish. How so I know sometimes now I'm starving. Yes, that's what she does. What do you want today for breakfast? We don't just get up and have eggs. It's like, oh, let's make cal sooy, which is Northern Thie curry chi. Now you guys are also doing ninety fiance pillow Talk, Yeah, I feel like Fiance. There's like seventeen thoud different shows on making different informations, different aspects. So like living overseas, it is not easy for an American to go live abroad. And it's not that they don't have all the luxuries, because I wouldn't call America so luxurious. It's working over jess as hard if you don't have the great credentials and then adapting to the local culture. It is different than just going over there for a week, coming back and then you have before the nights but I haven't even really met and trying to decide if they even want to continue with a relationship. I'm sorry you're seeing a lot of these people on fiance haven't met each other until they go before nine because lots of people they just on the day thing app and then they go to to meet the field your you know, fiance or what they want to call it, and sometimes it's just you know the profile that's on, Oh you being a person. We didn't have a long distance because we lived in China together, so she would only have to go back to Thailand every month to get a new visa, be gone for three days and they come back. Where for some of them, like Rachel and John for previously before Night, it's hard. They're in a long distance, long term relationship and it's difficult, and a lot of people are in that situation. It's not easy where when they finally get the k one, the excitement of bringing them to America family And that's what's so hard is ninety days to plan anything because you don't know when you're gonna get the visa. They'll say, Okay, your interview is scheduled, and if you have a mistake, could be two more weeks. You don't know when that's gonna happen. So when they finally get here, it's like you hit the ground running and you have so much going on because you can't really plan to say, Okay, you're coming in September. It could be June. You could be planning for June and then all of a sudden, September. So it is just it's a nightmare. And we love to watch nightmares. I mean, that's part of it. So from pillow Talk, we get to talk crap about everybody else, including ourselves, and that's the fun parts. You're a lot of talk crap as long as you talk cra about yourself as well. Oh we are you know. So I put pillow Talk you recap the show. Uh, and then you also kind of get an insight to what you think is happening on the show. You have obviously experienced being on it, so you guys are kind of like experts. I could feel for Benjamin when he has to talk to So we'll see what happens next week. I can't wait to see what he negotiates. But um, you know, for us, we went through that. You know, that's what I looked because I end up having you know, and we said this the other night we did stand up. You know, um as a Jewish guy, had my wife negotiate for me. She got temper sent down interest free. And you gotta remember, I have a granddaughter that's thirteen, her brother's twelve. So I'm thinking ten years from now, I can get my dowry back plus interest. That's a pretty good that's amazing. That's actually knew she was going to Kentucky, but I was trying to get my granddaughter to marry my brother in law. Wait say that again. My granddaughter is thirteen, her brother is twelve, So if I can get them married, I can get my dowry back close interest. And I want to talk about the dowry for a second because that was a big part of your storyline on the show, because I didn't really know what dowry was until I was watching you guys. And the fact that this is going to really sound bad and I don't know how it's a phrase it, so please correct me. But you had to essentially pay Annie's parents for her hand in marriage. It is for cultural thing. Is one to show respect to the parents for raising their daughter. And that way, that's where the dowry is based upon. Is education. Have they been married before your status. Yeah, I was really there's an algorithm to this, and I was gonna work on one, maybe sell it as an app, and then all these things that can you take care of her? And a lot of times they take the dowry and they will buy land, so we have something we go back to. I think I look at the State Way in America and there's been a lot money on the party. I just went through that. Who paid, well, it was that's a personal question. And he was a collaborate. I mean her her parents really wanted to be traditional and help power as much as they could, and they really helped out in a big way. But Ashley and I paid for a lot as well. It was kind of a collaborator. I want to give her parents to the dollar did you spend on your wedding? I'll tell you after the show. I'll tell you this. I basically her parents about fifteen thousand and is hers because we're married. So if you think about it, and they paid for the party, okay, but at the time, you guys weren't married, so technically it was your money. But now down too, so the day that and there was like a loan, Well, yeah, I did an interest free. Are you joking? I can't tell her. I'm serious about that. I didn't have to pay at all at once, as long as we kept helping and we have in the dowry is paid off now and so everything after that point it's half her money. It is, you know how we look at it and like even so, that's why I can understand people say, oh, you're paying for your wife. No, you pay. You have to pay for your woman somehow somewhere. Yet you know, I didn't ask. I didn't care for a big diamond, you know. But just peace, follow my courture to pay this respect. You don't have to give me a damn, you know, but just business. Let's pait my friend. And absolutely, especially if the money is being invested, like you said, in the land that you guys are gonna use them and you know the water buffalo really brings value to the land. Yeah, it's more like investing in the family than paying for your wife. That's the way I kind of look at anybody that pays for their wife. That's you know. Look, people go out and pay for whatever they want to pay for. Every day. My mom gave her our one year anniversary. This was my great grandmother's wedding and engage ruins like goal speaking. Well, I swear to god, my that was my computer and my mom is calling. Wow, that is something you Yeah, my mom heard something about moms like I just got to call my son right now? Where does your mother get off calling you at work? Doesn't she know recording a podcast? Anyway? I'm so sorry too. This was my great grandmother's a hundred and twenty years old. It's white gold. It's about and be believe or not. He's great great grandmother had the same birth day as my mom, even going to the cemetery to put a stone on and we looked at the date and it was obviously different year. Hopefully that would be very interesting in the same year. We'd have to do some math on that one. Oh, I know that was some Yeah. So so, David, anywhere can we find pillow Talk? Pillow Talk you can find eleven o'clock on Sunday nights on TLC or you can stream live or download the TLC go app. You watching anytime you want. But you are also on YouTube, you right, Well, that's we do cooking on a YouTube channel that's separate. Um. But TLC has their own to watch that. And yes, we do cooking on YouTube and people can have any recipes, so we have that going. I mean, I don't really know ye travels. Um, so we're doing a lot of different things. Are doing stand up you were talking to morning. First of all, I have to do stand up. I'm too short to sit down. Do comman, you stand up? You know I can't see ye think I'm glad at the stage. I used to be six ft five and you know, when I went through my first divorce, I ran out of money. So when I went to mediation, she took half my eye. That story, like, um, so you're actually getting our bit we did from the other night. And we do a lot of our bid is kind of like the way we do our shoutouts cameos. We do a lot of shoutouts to fans birthdays, every reason, anniversaries and um you know, so like we always say happy birthday. I hope you get a jahoone family toilet because everybody wants to john you know jahoon family toilet that is. But I don't get out, well, it's the Asian to day. That way you can have good you know, all the waters next to the toilet that I always see, like you can just drink some water while you're doing your business. That's why we always say everybody you know. So it's because we love watching all the shows, so it's worth we use that in our Shoutous is a perfect couple for pillow Talk. Well, it's thank you, And we really try to interact with the fan base, and I try to respond to everybody on social media as I can, because without them, without the fans, none of us or anything. Drop your Instagram mands real quick. Uh. David Toborowski and any Suwan Toborowski great for the listeners. I said that want to watch to because maybe you guys can put a link if you have on your we probably could do that. Think you know everything? He tried to sell her every day to me. Yeah, David, if you're he's gonna absolutely know. When Corey came to stay with us, I said, I'm selling cameos and Corey today And I said, So you can find David and Annie on t l C ninety Day Fiance pillow Talk. Also you can go to their YouTube traveling and cooking show called David and Annie's Travels, and again you can follow them on Instagram, Twitter. Remember Sunday, so right now you have before ninety days at nine o'clock, pillow Talk comes on a liven but you can always download the TLC go app and watch it anywhere. We did that yesterday. Right now. I love you, We love TLC. Let me put you that way. They great to us. It's like to see a couple come from our reality dating show, obviously Dina and I as well. Um, and seeing you guys be a success story and really support the franchise and support the show as well, that's really nice. It really helped change my life in a positive way. Um. The fans have had such a positive impact. Even even during the most difficult days when you get those text messages from people who you don't know and just like we're thinking for you, we're praying for you, and it does have a significant and even the ones that the trolls that with one follower that say hateful things, you still feel bad for him. I was clad back a little bit just for fun, just like, oh right, good, got you back well, daving Andy, thank you guys so much for coming on. Congratulations on your marriage. Than hey, welcome back to help I suck it dating feeling good. You want to do our chant help I sucking dating, help, I suck it dating. Diana and I are both wearing beanies right now as well, so we're feeling really bonded, which makes sense because it's about ninety two degrees outside. Definitely, how are you? You snuck up right behind us, Heather McDonald. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you, Heather, thank you so much for joining us the podcast. You have your own podcast called Juicy Scoop. Yes, I've had it for over four years. I'd like to think of a pioneer as a female in the industry who cares. Um, it's very fun. I I love doing it. It's uh, it's you know, it's been great. I was did Chelsea Lately and wrote and produce that for so many years, so then I kind of I really liked doing the daily topics and what I found to bet juicy, so that started doing the show and it's been fun. It's been great. What's juicy that you like? Like you just like topical current events. It's like, yes, it's a little bit of everything. Um, I didn't want it to also always have to be funny, though most of the time it is so it's one of our findest juicy and pop culture. What's going on in some of my favorite reality shows? You know, real people stories like I love anything with infidelity, affairs, cheating on each other, a murder that involves killing a spouse and disposing other dead body for insurance money, all that stuff. Love it. So, what's your favorite reality TV show? There is a correct answer. Don't forget who you're sitting there. I have been watching The Bachelor since the inception when they had the guy from San Francisco that I still convinced his gay Who's the guy from San Francisco? The original whatever his name is, look it up. I would think that you guys could get on the show, Alex Michelle, Alex Michelle, but I would What would be really kind of fun is if like new people in The Bachelor had to take like a history lesson of The Bachelor, and based on your knowledge, did you start watching it in first grade or second? You know you have we That's what I would like to see from the new kids on the show. I strongly disagree with that. In fact that people on my season I always made fun of them whenever they knewhim so much about the Bachelor. Yes, they'd always be like, oh, season six, this guy took this girl on his day. I'm like looking at him, like, what are you saying right now? You know all of that? That was Tanner on our season. I the season I watched was Andy dor from season because that was the Bachelor, right who's going to be on our season? And then Tanner was like the biggest Bachelor fan. Who now is there to Jade has a couple of kids, and he just knew everything. So it's really funny when Nick because Nick by all, which is weird thinking back upon it, crashed our season headway through and Tanner just like had his moment because he's like, I know everything about this guy. Just like, everyone sit down, let me do all the questioning. I'll take it from here. It was like I had no idea that Tanner was a super fan at hilarious. Well, I mean, I think it makes for a better show if the people are not. No, I'm saying I agree with you if they're not, because you don't want someone coming in and playing the role like how that used to happen with um like Survivor or or Real World. It was like by the time, like the fifth or sixth season came in, the person's like, I'm the bisexual alcoholic and you're like, all right, Like they knew they all had to like play a role and so it's um but I mean, it's always entertaining watching. Do you think that's happening on The Bachelor right now? Everybody's coming in with a preconceived idea of what role they're going to be, and I think that role is selling t MT. But I mean, I think that's something that everyone But how can you not why why if you're gonna leave your job or lack of job to go and on this show or I can't believe they don't pay you. So you've got to be at a certain level of having like a nice enough family that will support you, because you can't come up with three thousand a month to like have your rent go while you do the show. It's going to be a certain type of person. That certain type of person, I think, you know, it's probably good looking and can sell some Instagram and go for it watch on Instagram. Yeah, I think some people. I'm actually wearing a movement. I love them, gorgeous, great watch I love movement. I think it's kind of I think there's a lot of people that do different things. I know for a fact there are some people that have off their job we're going on the show. I know for a fact that people have taken a hiatus from their job and then have gone back. I'm still in the middle of my hiatus from my job. It's been a while. Believe, what was your What was your job? I was a start up recruiter. That's cool. It helps small businesses, scaler companies in Los Angeles. Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's every look. Isn't everybody a little bit of an entrepreneur out of the day. So like, if you can like parlay and something, I think it's great. Why wouldn't you. I wanted my friend's brother to do it. I was like so into it. I was so excited and um, I don't know if you turned it down or maybe they thought. I don't know that he got picked. But he was a babe, he could serve. He came from a nice family that I think would have been really good for the hometown. It's like a juicy, interesting family. I think that makes it really fun. That may be the next time I get on TV as if one of my sons gets picked to be on the show. I'm like that hotown. I mean, at this point that might be my triumphant return to television. But also I do want to point something out real quick. So when Heather walked into the studio before hand, Jared and I were sitting like talking, working on the computers, um whatever we were doing. He just walks in on nonchalant, just sits down next to us as like, hi, guys, nice to meet you. As David and Annie were entering the studio just after that moment, she freaks out and it's like, I had to take a picture of you guys right now. I'm absolutely obsessed with you guys. You're the absolute best. So where has been Just based on my experience between you meeting us and you meeting them, you clearly like Nightti Day Fiance a lot more. Listen. When I walked up, I was like, I gotta get a picture with these hot pieces of ascids, which is know you guys, but I was like playing cool with them. It's like it's like seeing like a fairier. It's like seeing something it's just weird because they're just like it's they're like a comedic reality show couple that I've was into that I like talked about a lot of my podcast. And I also knew that if I didn't take a photo with them, that I would be taking something away from my fan base at Juicy Scoopers. And I'm like, even if I never see them again, I had to get that photo. And I didn't know they were coming to your show. I didn't know if they were leaving going what it was. But I I like, I like the Bachelor. I like Bachelor in Paradise. I talked about you. I liked your your seventies stash, and I liked that you were honest with your cutie girl that you're like, I'm not a good boyfriend and we probably won't be together after this somebody I should just let you go. And then you came back. So I liked your whole vibe. I didn't say anything bad about you when I talked about you out. That's really kind of you. What about two years ago when I was on Paradise then I think I might have missed it, or did you just don't look like this? I look very different. Yes, okay, so I may have just you know, not recognized. I just was like, oh, the Stash and the I want to go back and listen to your you talk about Jared me Vanessa. Uh, well, it depends on how long you're watching the show for I've been watching I've been watching it the whole time. But I have to admit there's times where I'm really into the season, and and then there's other times when Bachelor season, Oh, it's definitely Chojo Jojo when her now current fiance, I don't know when they're gonna get married. The're gonna have like four more engagements in milk Okay. I hope they're planning their wedding currently right now. Someone paying for it, I hope. So have no what news for you? Nobody paid for I don't know who. Nobody paid for our wedding. Well, I you should have gotten me involved. We spent a lot, a lot, partnerships whatever. You should definitely at this point utilize all that freaking I mean, you've got not only is you your social influencers, but then the whole everybody come to your wedding is going to post about it. That should be free. Man. I'm sorry if you stay to the company like look, not only do my wife and I combined have this amount of you know audience, our half of our you know, we've got sixty people coming that combined is twenty two million followers. Yeah. But like for us, we wanted to get married at a specific location, and it was just really like, well, we're going to sell out anyway, Like somebody's gonna get married here, whether it's you or somebody else. So it's like, all right, well of course we try to utilize it. Ye yeah, how can you not come to save some money? And then they were like yeah, no, right, like all right, well, well you still had the wedding of your dreams. That's all that matters. Like you do have a hard bargain, Okay, let's do it. Twist my arm, why don't you? Um. Yeah. It's an interesting world because I think when I first came into The Bachelor, nobody really they knew what Instagram was. I didn't have an Instagram before the show. And then my friend after leaving the show was like, you have to create an Instagram. And I remember looking at other Bachelor people's instagrams and like I remember they had like, you know, followers. I was like, oh my god, that's insane, fifty followers. I was like I remember thinking I was like, if I get twenty thou followers from this, that's an insanity. And then it just started blowing up, I think from really our season, because I think Caitlin season maybe Andy season two is like the first one that really all of a sudden they started gathering Instagram follows. And obviously the show has really kind of uh evolved since then into what it is now. But like, did you guys know growing up now you came on the show at how old you and you first time? Did you guys always know growing up that you were like extremely good looking guys? No? I was really heavy in high school and I was an offensive I was left tackle, and you know football at all my freshman sophomore year it's a fat position, okay, And I started slimming out and then I started coming into my own probably um college. Did you go to homecomings? Did you have prom dates? I had a prom date, but she was only a friend, and then I had I had a couple of dates homecoming. Yeah, But your point is you're saying that, like, were you guys kind of like late bloomers or were you like getting as SID twelve? I was a late bloomer Dean was not. Dean was totally not a late bloomer. I was getting as at fifteen. I don't think that really constitutes me being an early bloomer though I got assid at nineteen. That's what about just some innocent dry humping throughout like you know, study sessions. Oh okay, I don't think our promiscuity leads into our bachelor career though, right, Like, well, where were you going with this? I just think I just wonder, you know, sometimes people know they're good looking, like at a young age or or I remember, like you sometimes you remember like all of a sudden you're getting looks, you know. I just remember when I have a very attractive run still is today and her mom was a young mom, and she the mom told me she goes. I remember the first time that some men came up. A man came up to ask me for directions, but he was really checking out my daughter. Like weird things like that where all of a sudden you're like, oh, and you kind of discover like as a good looking person. Oh, I can get out of stuff. I can get you know, I can get free dry cleaning. I don't know we're going to before going on the Bachelorette, I was like, yeah, I'm a pretty good looking guy. But then I went to the Bachelor manasioned the first night and I was surrounded by all these people who were like successful, tall and handsome, and I was looking around. I was like, wow, I'm in way over my head here. So I think you can be like confident in yourself, but then you kind of get there and you kind of like withdraw a little bit because well, at least for me, this is my experience with that. I Withdrew and I was like, whoa, I'm one way of my head. I have packed like a like a small Duffel bag. I don't even have a colored shirt to wear. Yeah, I think I've become less confident after the show a little bit, because here's the thing, because you compare yourself, so I don't want to This is not like a boo who feel bad for me. If I'm being honest, there is a little bit of me that feels a little less confident, just because especially after being with Ashley, because you know, when people come up to us, they just love Ashley so much, and then I'm very much an afterthought, which is okay, but I think after it happened so many times you're like, hey, where this is a relationship. Okay, we're on equal footing, okay. Uh. And then also from my season, like I'm surrounded by guys who are like six four, you know, and they're just six ft so I'm not short, but people do you know how many times people come up to me and you're like, wow, you're taller in real life. And it's like, because Ben Higgins is six four, so when I stand next to him, he looks like six to in person and I look five nine, you know. And so but then it's just like you know, you take to take out a splinter in the middle of our interview, listen to this, like you you're you're that slammed that you can't wait until I'm going I fell in a cactus a couple of days ago, and I think it was poisonous and my hand is numb, and I'm trying to remove the poisonous this souls from my body and I have accessing difficulty moving his hand. Chris Harrison not provide healthcare, and I finally have access to hot water, so I'm trying to release the finally have access to hot water. You're like you know, he lives in a very world country. I guess. So that's right, you do live in avand no, you don't really live in a van anymore? Do you know? Outside? Where do you park it like that? So you don't get a ticket at night. I don't really live in l A anymore. Okay, Like if I'm in l A, stay at my girlfriend's house. If I'm not, then I look part in the campground. Oh yeah, now what's that? Like? It's fantastic. So is it real campers or is it like homeless people pretending to be campers? What do you mean? It's like I don't know. I mean, I just I mean I see tents all over the city. Now obviously those people aren't camping. Well, not to bring it down, but like I just want to know how this works. I'm not sleeping in the city. I'm sleeping in like parks and national parks and like okay, where like people like go it's like hike and camp and like fish and stuff like that. Okay, so that's like you're kind of around people like minded people that are camping and hiking and stuff. Got it? Not so much like skid row here? Yes? Okay, So I'm just gonna go back to pulling out the cactus from sure, sure go co poisonous cactus. Let's not forget that. Yes, yeah, I don't know what the hell we're talking about. Anyway. We're talking about how you Yes I did, I went to us. We're talking about how you feel that you're really at that you know what I think you are? You and Ashley are. She's She's the Kim Kardashian and now you're becoming the Kanye like you at one time you might have been a little bit. Now you've got to step back. Nobody got to Like. I just watched the show last night in a while, and there was there was a real juicy moment in there in there like I had watched it in a long time, and there was a juicy moment on keeping Up where she was getting ready to go to the met Ball and she's in that ridiculous outfit where her waist is like ten inches or something, and Kanye sez the outfit. It's the night before and you know, he's the god of fashion who only wears sweatpants, but whatever, so he comes in He's like, I don't know if I like my wife and of corset, like I'm a father of four, I'm I'm walking a path like that. I don't know if this goes with my path anymore. And she's like, you're gonna come in here the night before and stress me out like with that, now you don't like the outfit. You've made me this sexy thing, and now you say you don't like this outfit. And she's like, no, like you could go on you're a weird Jesus path. You didn't say that's like he could go on your path. Maybe that's not my path just yet, Like maybe I still want to dress slutty until like child six or seven. I'm not carrying them. I literally have a ten inch waist when my surrogate is about to give birth, like my life pretty jam and I'm not gonna have you screwed up with your weird Colton Wyamy, Wyoming or wherever. And then he goes, okay, he's getting missed that and he leaves, and I was like, that was the juiciest part of Kardashians I've seen in probably a decade. It was so real because finally, like you saw like a couple that's like, I mean, sometimes my hasbit will do that to me like all of a sudden, like I have a show in like an hour, like I'll do it to my kids all the time. I'm like, no, no, no, no, stop talking. I gotta be cheerful, I gotta talk, I gotta get on stage, like be funny, so like, don't upset me. And the fact that he came in an upset her, and that doesn't really compare to you guys, but I mean there was this moment where then it was she was like I was Kanye's plus one and now it's about me, and now Kanye is like, I'm not even gonna do music anymore. I'm gonna start a cult to waoming and been do like little homeless domes that look like Star Wars. I don't know. It's crazy. Dar's next stepisode starting in Cold. Would you ever start a cult just for like ex bachelor people. I think I would start a cold if I had some things that I believed in strong enough. You know, It's would be hard for me to start a cold with just an idea of like, yeah, it's okay, none of this is really like you know, like you have to really be convicted in something like I have an idea that you want people to buy into. And if you don't want you ever start at a cult? Is the point? My point, Like you just stepped into me, like, yeah, I think i'd like to start it. Well, I'm just saying I don't think I'll ever care so deeply about something as it's to where I want to start a cold. And I'm not saying Kanye's is a cult. I'm just saying it's like, I mean, it's just a little it's a little weird. It's a yeah. But I mean, I don't know if these people are really like when you see them, did they come off the street and they don't know him personally and they're going to these church things. Are they just all people that have like worked for him? I guess. I mean, we can dive deep in this. What was the exactly mad at Was he mad that he's becoming second fiddle? Or is he mad about her wearing sexy outfits when she's a mom out in public, which I'm not saying either one is right. I think I think I think he I think he had a right to say those things and address it and be like, as a family, maybe we want to like move in a different direction, Like, but I think it was wrong of him to bring it up at that time, and he wasn't thinking that, oh my god, this is the inappropriate time time to bring it up ten hours before you get in this this dress that you haven't been able to eat for a month to get in, Like, but I think what he was saying was kind of was sort of true. And I do think about that, like where she's doing so really amazing, you know, in with prison reform, which I think is so cool, and for that to be her legacy in the end, it's like great and genious and helpful to the world. And I think he's trying kind of being like, maybe we don't need to do this sexy stuff anymore. But she's at the same time like, well, let me be the one that decides that I don't want to be like naked anymore. That's probably their bread and butter too, not that her naked bread and butter. But you know, they've built a career, right and it's like, what are you gonna give it? And yeah, what are you going to give it up on? Kid four? Kid five? When you're forty, when you're fifty, when you're seventy, Probably never, like with plastic surgery and stuff, you probably never have to give up. It's kind of interesting that this is the straw that seems to have broken the camel's back. After all the things that Kim's done, it's broken the camera. No. I think they're fine, but I like that they had like a real, like that was a marriage argument that was like that I can relate to that. It's like, really, dude, like right now, like you're stressing me out, and he's like, Okay, everybody's around, and I better get the hell out of here, you know, before I like lose my steam. But maybe you're right and like I gotta chill. And I just thought it was kind of a cool moment to see like a real marriage like where and then the next day you gotta you gotta get over it. If you're gonna be married forever, you gotta get over it and just move on. Sounds like Kanye is insecure, and I don't know why. There's got to be some deep rooted feel like there's a lot of people and not saying Kanye is or is not insecure, but I feel like there's a lot of people in this entertainment industry that are very insecure, which is why they're here because they want validation, they want to build themselves up. Yeah, okay, I mean, I guess I don't know enough about Kanye and Kim, but it's like it's Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, like, yeah, probably the most powerful couple in the world, right, and I and I think they knew that, like coming together. I think that was a large part of the attraction of like why they matched up, like being the ultimate power couple. And you know, sometimes that doesn't always work forever, Like when two really big actors get together, it's rare that they can. I mean, even when you think about Paul Newman, right, he's the one that's been married forever? Is it Paul Newman that's been married for When he married his wife, she was an actress too, and they were like this power couple, and then she never like worked again, and he became huge and had a cell addressings and everybody was like, isn't he the greatest? That he stayed married to this one. I'm like, yeah, but she wasn't leaving for months on end making out with somebody, you know, and possibly having an affair. Like it's hard when you're she wasn't. But I mean that's what happens with with major stars. It's like you're separated from your spouse for three months, you're on set for twenty hours, you're making out with somebody new. A lot of people, a lot of people have like an open thing where they're like, you know what, what happens on the set stays on the set. I'm not gonna have a baby with this person. I'm not gonna bring them around, but like, let me have my fun. Hugh Jackman didn't interview about this because he's been married to his wife for many, many years before he became famous, and he said that that I don't want to speak for him, but I'm paraphrasing where he said that was a big reason why they're still together because before this whole stardom came about, like they had their their strong foundation their marriage, like they were going to do this together type thing. It's an interesting, uh, the idea to think about, and you met your wife in the peak of your stardom. Well it's just like a contrast, you know anyways, But I actually think a partnership like you guys have and like Joejoe and what's his name, Jordan's. I think that works through out really well. I think because it's sort of evil level, and you know what I mean, you like the same stuff, and and the the partnership works, and the branding works and all of that. I think I think that's why these these bachelor um, why the Bachelor couples. It seemed for so long they weren't working, But now it seems like there's quite a few that do. And I think it's because, you guys, because of the way it works, there are several businesses and endeavors that can continue with just enough of being in the limelight but where you can still have your own life. And so I kind of think it's um, like I guess, really good. Actually I like it. I would agree with that. I think I can only speak upon Ashley and myself, but I think with us, uh, sometimes the business aspect does hurt because at times it does feel like we work together, and so we spend so much time together that separation is good. You know, distance makes a heartcrew fonder. But I also think with our relationship, ours is a little different, just because we we really did start forming our relationship off camera, um, because it was really the friendship that turned into this love for me um, and then it was kind of like your age old dumb guy, just holding out, holding out, holding out. And then she started dating someone else, and then I got a glimpse into my life without her, and then that's when everything started happening. That was just weird because obviously the guy she started dating was on some dumb show that Dean was on. Who was that Batchelor? Wait, not dumb show. I'm somebody else because she did someone after she fell in love with you on the Bachelor, she was just like trying for you, and then she went on and then she went another season about paras and started to like someone else. She went on Winter Games basically Winter Games, and she had the Canadian or something. Right, Okay, it was me that dated actually instead of the other guy. Do you think we would still be friends? Oh? Yeah, absolutely not. Oh I would have. But what if it was like there was like it's like an amicable split, and I was like still fully supportive of your guy's relationship. I don't know. I never understand how people can do that when you know, like your friend's been inside your wife, Like I don't understand, and like that is some really evilved Yeah, really really evolved people, you know what I mean? Like that good for you? Like, I don't think I could deal with that. Yeah, that's ship. That is interesting to be friends with somebody who's had an intimate relationship because I'm like, quote unquote kind of like friendly with my exes. But there's definitely a big separation there. Yeah, it's more of like, you know, if we see each other, it would be like, m Well, let's wait, I want to ask about that. What what is your policy? Like what do you guys feel about Like when you've had a girlfriend and you know it was a serious girlfriend or whatever, and now you have a new serious girlfriend, are you able to still talk to that girl the phone, like or do you keep it a secret doesn't upset your current girlfriend? Do you have anything like that? I don't like keep in constant contact with any of my ex girlfriends. But we still like follow each other on Instagram. That's about the extent of it. But yeah, I'll give you an example when actually doesn't have many x is. But there was one guy when we got I don't know what he was thinking, but we got engaged in June of last year and then we're at Thanksgiving her family's house and he texted her something very friendly, but they haven't talked in like a year, and it was just like, you know, a friendly text, but it was like, why is he texting you? He knows you're engaged. You guys left off on bad terms. It was never a friendship. It was only a relationship, and it was just like a weird text to be like, why are you reaching out? She's engaged? And then she told me. She was very honest. She's like, hey, he texted me, And I was like, are you going to respond? And she goes no, and I was like that's the correct answer, um, And then that was it. You know. But it's just like moments like that where I'm sure if my ex texted me, she would want to know. She'd be like, is you know why is this person texting? I don't know? Do I know his person that texting me? Uh? No? I remember I was doing this show on MTV and I gotten engaged, and you know, this is when you had to call people on the phone and like was this Russia? Oh my god? And like you know, and you talk on the phone. And so he called me my old boyfriend and we've had some connections throughout the years, but he was just like, how are you doing? And I don't think you knew I was on this show or anything. And I'm asking He's like, so would you want to get together? And then I go, well, I'm engaged, and he's like okay, and he respected it. Goddamn it. I would have loved to have continued to hear from throughout the years. I really would have like I was like, oh, okay, Like that's it. I guess I'll never talk to you. That's what you should do. But at the same time, sometimes you're just like curious, and you know, we didn't have Instagram and stuff where I could just like be in my bed and just check out his life, not follow him, just check it out, move on like you just then you are like, oh, I really wonder what happened with that person? You know? I agree there. I have a hard time of letting go of things, and especially with someone who you just have. Yes, they're an ex, but also you have so many intimate moments with this person, so many important moments of your life that you spent with this one particular person, and then, like you said, you grow close to their family and their friends, and you kind of were, you know, not revolve your life around them, but you know, adapt to it, and then all of a sudden, one day it's just done and over. And I agree that's the way it should be, because whenever you're friends with it, it always goes I feel like it always goes bad. It's just yeah, it's just one of those things where you, I think it is the healthier choice to cut it, and it's sort of hard. Well, for the first time, my stepdaughter she had a boyfriend, and for the first the first time that happened to me as a mother. Um, I thought it was a real delight. I met him, who's cute some in San Francisco, wore a little peak coat out, nice crisp collar. Que hot dad. Hot divorced dad has already set up that dad with a couple of friends. I was happy with this relationship. I thought it was a healthy first relationship. They had a healthy breakup. It's over, you know. So she tells me they broke up. I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to deal with this. I guess I'm never going to see him again. I guess I'm never going to talk to him again both um, No, I I had no relationship with the dad, but I would just say yeah, like I guess you know, because they'd come to our house occasionally or whatever. And and then I was like, you know what, that is the right thing. I think sometimes with guys, I've noticed, you know, they get a girlfriend, and if they have sisters, then the sisters become friends with the girlfriend, and then they break up, but the sister still wants to stay friends with the ex girlfriend. And then all of a sudden this has happened for it. I think this is completely wrong. The son then is in love and brings his new girlfriend around and ex girlfriends still coming around because she's friends with the sister or whatever, and I think that really is wrong. So I would speak to the sisters and the mothers of sons, like when they break up with that girl, it's like, see, we had fun going to spend class, but it's got to end here. It does, and you care about that person, Don't get me wrong, you really do, Like even excess of mind, like I want to just know how they're doing, Like are they okay? Are they happy? How is your family doing? People that I've spent you know holidays with right, but it's you just can't you can't ever know because you can't reach out because you have to focus on your new life and move forward. And it's a really really difficult thing to handle. But I agree with you where I do think the best course of action is to cut it off. It's sad and it sucks. But when I was with um my husband, when we were just dating, and he like just left me alone to this condo, you know, and so I started found all the photos, you know, and really analyze like each girlfriend, you know, and I was like, I don't know, does he have a type? Like I'm going through. I brought a couple of the of the photos because back then they were printed out. I know, that's weird. And I brought a couple of photos to like brunch and was like, what do you guys think this girl Like she has a sense of style, but like, I don't know, not that great, this one's kind of hot, this one looks like a granola whatever. So when you say print out, do you mean like they were like from one hour photos from like yeah, So that's so I remember doing that. I haven't married nineteen years. Okay, So then um. And then one day, like when it got serious, I don't know if we'd been engaged yet or about to. I went over there and he had just thrown them all away, like he didn't discuss it, and he never knew that I had gone through his ship, which also I couldn't believe that it left me alone at his place something you don't know me anyway. But but then he just he was like and then somehow I came up and he's like, no, I threw them away. He's like, I only kept a couple of this one girl because we'd gone to check and like there was like you know, castle and there was like important things or whatever that he wanted. Just he didn't want to throw those like historical things away. But like the previous like serious girlfriend, all of those were gone. And I thought, that's like, wow, that's pretty healthy, that's pretty great. I wouldn't I wouldn't throw away. I didn't throw away through your significant other's apartment. Well, make sure that he throws away pictures of the ex girlfriend. And I don't care if there's castles in there or not. Those pictures gotta go. Well now, it's like, you know, that's also really hard with social media because I have friends that you can't help to be like it's crazy detective work that they do, and then they find out, like why did he like this person's photo? And this person suddenly is liking his photo and I went down this deep path of this. That type of work you know, takes hours and hours of someone's life, but it's so readily available with like no literally no fingerprints that you can that it can like go back to that. I can't blame the girls for doing that. If that was available, I think I'd be doing the same thing. And I got you guys do that too. Somebody made an analogy that going on your ex's profile is the two thin version of driving past yes stuff like yeah, like how people used to drive past their excess house to see if the car was there, see if the light was on, see if anybody else right there. Now you just kind of drive pilot me and let me look at their Facebook page. Let me see if they tagged on any new photos, if there's any other people in their lives. I need to know about interesting, how there's something world. Tell us what else you're working on, because you have your podcast, you're doing stand up now now I've been doing standup forever. I just take my second special that we're still editing it, and then, um, do you have a name for the special or you're not allowed to say. I'm calling it Juicy Scoop. I'm Bethany frankeline branding it because I'm like, why I call it like some little like you know, whatever expression I might say this year, hook or light whatever. I have all these funny expressions, and I'm like, I'm not going to name you light. It's an expression I've coined. I've not trademarked it yet, but it's like what I call kind of like a sugar baby, like where you're basically just going out with a guy for like a really great handbag, so you're like a hooker, but you're not a full blow. It's like a new version. Yeah. And so like I have all these funny things that I thought of, like I could call the tour that, you know, things I talked about, but then I just thought, well, you know, the podcast has been enough four years, It's going to be around for hopefully a really long time, so any kind of recognition I can bring there, so like behind me is like this big sign that says Juicy scoop and um and then yeah, and then I still go out, like travel not more than two weekends a month. So this weekend I'm in Thousand Oaks and I'm doing the Thousand Oaks Civic Arts Plaza Friday and Saturday. And then in November I'm in Detroit, Chicago, Nashville and St. Louis And that's October eighth, and yes, so please come, It'll be really fun. And then we're all going to go to Bogei's after and rip it or stone House. If you're familiar with the Canal Valley nightlife now, it does not, it does not, And I have such attractive attract of audience members, so people should just come because you might get lucky guys and girls both perfect. Just everybody's just cute. Everyone has like i'll put together outfit. Yeah, and if you don't, you're still welcome. If you have to have a mustache and living and you're totally so off, I'm mondy to pay for the ticket, come on in. Yes, well, thank you for joining us. Than what about your Instagram handle? Do you want to share that with us? Yes? No, I'd like to keep it down. I don't want anyone else following me, Uh, it's at HEATHERN McDonald's on Twitter and Instagram and Heather donald Comedy on Facebook. If people are showing that and I just joined TikTok, that's right. I joined TikTok and I'm verified, So get ready for some fun to be happening. I don't know, do you ever have Vine? I never did Vine. I never really got into Snapchat, so I was like, I was like, God, you have to join Snapchat. And then I was like, I just like Instagram Stories. So but with TikTok, everyone's you know, I said, all right, let me try to do this. So I forced my sons to do it. And they're like, mom, this is cringe worthy. This is white girl humor. We don't like it. And and I made them do it. So I won't use them all the time. I only exploit them, like once in a while. Some health when you gave birth to them, you're allowed to exploit them. I mean, I'm just like, what do you want? You know? You want? You look at the life you live, you know. I mean some people are exploiting their baby in utero, which I hope you guys do this. You saw that Malika. Actually her first post about her pregnancy was that the p stick what's the stick, the p T the whatever it was pregnancy pa stick. So she's like, hey, thanks, you know, hashtag E P T whatever whatever it is, um and I was like wow, like right from the start, like you should like yeah, right right. I mean, when you guys have a baby, that kid is gonna work work it. I'm so pissed that my kids are old. I can't like, I can't utilize out like a Gretchen Rossie where the kid has her own Instagram's account. It's like talking in a little voice that she wrote, like, you know, it's it's amazing some of our friends have. We'll heather on that note. You're a fantastic thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you on October eighteenth and nineteenth. That's your stand ups not special, but your stand up show thousand thousand Oaks. And we'll be on the lookout for your stand up special, which comes out in a couple of months probably yes, And we'll be sure to follow on Instagram definitely not TikTok, but everywhere else, no follow me and TikTok. I'm doing fun stuff. I have three videos up there if you started TikTok in the podcast Juicy Scoop, which you can find probably where you find yes everywhere. Thanks you guys are a real delight. Thank you for joining us. All right, welcome back. Can I just point out that Dean always does the intros coming back when we don't have guests here. I'll tell you there's a guest here, he's like Jared, take it. I'll tell you why. You're just off the cuff. You're a lot more personable, and you do your background due diligence a lot player, and do you prepare a lot better than I do. I was mad the other week when Amanda wasn't here in studio because she was supposed to be here in studio and then something happened where she wasn't and we're supposed to have like an hour with her, and I read her entire book getting prepared for that interview because I really wanted to dive into some of the Jos stuff, the nick stuff people we know, and it just didn't happen. Right, You're you're tuting my own hord people. That's exactly what you prepare very well. And because of that, I allow I give you the opportunity to introduce our guests to showcase it, because I'm not going to do as good a job as you do. That's that's just the fact of the matter. Anyways, that that'll do it for our guests. But we are we have an email to answer. Mark wants to give us a quick little just because I don't know how it works in your kind of rarefied air of Instagram like followers. So how diligently do you keep track of that? Jared? How many followers do you have? U? I have seven hundred exactly right? Please, he did say, it's not like you just see the number every time you gone there. I don't know the exact number, like, I don't know if it's I don't know how to find that out, to be honest, but I think I'm the only one. How many do you have? I have one million, three hundred fifty one thousand, seven nine follower I think you made up some of those numbers. I'm so curious how I come within a thousand? Hold on, can I can I go on your Instagram? Do you find that out? I only have one point three million? I got I got to give you the number again. One million, three hundred and fifty one thousand, seven hundred twenty nine. Well you've left to have five thousand since No, how do you have an exact number? One million, three four six six nine. No, no, no, no, it's a late number. I'll tell you right now. You're right there. Well, while you have the app open, I want to see how much time you guys spend on that each day. Oh my god. We go to your file. This is gonna be your lines in the upper right corner, and then hit your activity. What is your average time every it's actually a lot better. I thought it was gaily on Instagram it's gonna be bad. What's yours first? I'm scared. It's one hour and thirty two minutes. Oh that's a lot better than two hours and twenty minutes. All right, so you're a whole shawshank Redemption Instagram is definitely I don't know what that means. The movie it's like two and a a half hours long. It's the first movie that I can think of that had a long right. Spend a lot of time on like whenever I want my phone, and basically on Instagram it's just fun to like scroll through and like see places and puppies and cute animals. We did tany Is in the two and a half hour ranges were really it's also different because it's like kind of a business thing at time, A little bit it is. That's true because I think Tanya's two and a half. She thought, oh, I thought it was gonna be higher two hours and twenty. I thought it was gonna be like four or something like. I'm not only when I saw an hour and a half, I was like, all right, that's not the worst. And you had to compare it, and then you're talking, I mean, how many months of your life are you spending on Instagram? It's a lot. So are you saying it's not worth our time? I think it is worth your time. I don't know, it's probably not worth our time. I think it's worth Deans, here's the thing. If I make of my income on Instagram, I'm spending two and a half hours a day at work. That's pretty good. That's not bad. Is the other ten percent from this league? It was like coming from Julie. I emailed the question specifically for Jared, but Dean you can wait on in on her situation as well. Question for Jared were you secretly trying to give Ashley signs when the two of you weren't together. I asked because I'm very frustrated with one of my guy friends, and I want to see if he's doing the same things you were. We met in college. He was friends with my roommate. A crushed on him at first, and I told him I liked him, and he shut me down. We didn't talk for a few months. I got over it. Our paths crossed a few months later. We became great friends and have been ever since. But earlier this year, his demeanor changed and he got weirdly flirty, sending me houses and saying, run away from your job and live in the middle of nowhere with me. I started to catch feelings again, so I called him out at it. He did having feelings and asked that my best friend with single rude. A little bit past weekend, we're at a wedding and he got flirty again, and then he was pouty when I danced with other people. I just want to ask, Jared, did you do these things that actually, in any direction you guys could give would be helpful? And Ben, I'm gonna be honest, No run away from your job and live in the middle of nowhere with me, and then he's gonna follow that up with no, I don't have feelings. What do you had your mind? What are you crazy? That's so weird? I used to So what I did with Ashley is that I would always, uh, you know, I would kind of what I do well is I live with something being wrong and and make it seem okay. Does that make sense? You know? Like you guys, you know you like you know that, like you just like everything's okay. Like I always knew that I had more feelings towards Ashley than I was leading on, but I would always still push her to date other people because in my mind that was the right thing to do when and hindsight, the right thing to do was just to be honest and be like, hey, listen, I'm confused about my things, and yes, I do feel like there's something here, but I'm unsure because you're very different than anything I've ever dated before in my life. Um, and so hindsight and that's what I should have done, But at the time, I was like, no, no no, no, just go go day to the people. It's fine, you're crazy. No no, no, no, no no, not that she's crazy, but I would be like, you know, listen, we're just friends. Uh. And then of course, like I would you know, get her flowers for her birthday or do stuff like that, which was obviously mixed signals. Um, but this guy is just pretty much like, come run run away with me. But by the way, when we run away together, we're only going to run away as best friends. We're not going to be And maybe your best friend should come with you because she's kind of kind of cute. I liked her Instagram. And but would you flirt with her knowing she had feelings for you? Would you sometimes flirt with her just because you knew you'd get a good response, because I think that's something a lot of people do. No, but I would sub consciously flirt with her, and like looking back at it, just being like, that's basically what he's saying, whether it's conscious or subconscious, and it will be well received. I don't think I did it because I knew it would be well received. I did it because I liked it, because you know, it would be like flirting with that, uh. And so it was selfish and it wasn't like nothing ever crossed the line. There was no touching or there was no any like really sexual tension being built, but it was always like kind of like like fun, flirtatious kind of line between friendship but there's nothing else, so we're not really in a relationship. And you know, it was safe because like obviously you guys had like a good and in my head that was fine because it was always like, actually, go date other people. So I would play that line of being like, no, you should go date other people. I know that there's like something here, but I just won't admit to it. This is what was going in my head. Obviously I'll never vocalize it. And I think also what my situation is very different just because of the public aspect of it. Nothing was private between Ashley and I ever, and that was my choice because we signed up for the show. So it was always weird for me where everybody like it maybe I'm weak minded, but of course, like what other people are telling me or what other people are saying is going to affect my judgment in some way, like it's impossible for me to block out all the noise, and so I think that kind of escalated the issue with Ashley and myself as well, because everybody saw what happened and had their own um opinion about it or had their own idea of what they think was happening, and so I think that really clouded my judgment in a lot of ways. To well, let me ask you this, to compare it to this story as well. Did she ever ask you if you had feelings for her while you guys were like in this weird nebulous of flirtation and did What was your response? No? I I I said that I loved her as a person, and I you know, it's just friendship feelings, And so you denied having feelings for her. What you're saying even though in my head I knew that there was more there. I will say that remove the come moved to the middle of nowhere with me from this story. It sounds a lot like yours, an Ashley story. No, because I would never I would never ask Ashley to adjust her life, especially as just being friends to my needs in any way. How is he asking her to adjust her life by running away from her job in the middle of nowhere. That's not like a legitimate position, and that's just a flirtation thing like oh like like work sucks. Let's move to the middle. My flirting was then very different than this because my flirting was more of like, but I'm just saying, remove that from this story. It sounds very similar to your path with Actually not well this, because my flirty was compliments like that's how I would flirt with Ashley too, but like how incredible she was, like how much she means to me. And then of course that was mixed signals because she's like, he's saying I mean so much to him, but at the same time he's saying we're just friends. Where this is like from what we're gathering him saying run away from your job. That from this, and it sounds very similar. Removes that entire uh paragraph. Yes, okay, fine, but I also don't want to compare myself to someone who's asking a girl to run away from her life, right. But again, I don't think that that's a serious proposition. I think it's just a flirtatious like, oh, Tuesday was a grind, Let's move to Arkansas and forget about everything like that. That was just like a like life's difficult right now. So also he's flirting with her and she says, what's going on with the flirtiness because I'm into you, and he's like, oh no, no, it's nothing. Hey is your best friend's single. It's a dick move, actually said up with any of her friends. God, no, he actually is Lauren single? Oh my god, because that's respectful because you know she has feeling for you. You You would never do that. Yeah, and just because of our past in history, it's just one of those things that you just don't even die, you know, open the doors. I'm gonna go. I know we're gonna disagree on this, agree to disagree. I'm going to say that the situation is very similar to years and Ashley's. This man has just maybe a lesser man than you are, and it's going about it in a worse way than you ever went about it. I feel like you might be giving Julia false hope, and I'm worried about that she can see this guy get in a month at a wedding. I'm worried that you're giving your false hope. Yes, I would also tell Julia that you have to at some point, for lack of a better term, pull your pants up. You know, you know what's that term? You know? Um? Because that sounded bad I meant to you, know how, Like my dad used to say, like put yourself up by your bootstress. Yeah, that that's what I'm going for. Pull your pants off. I don't know why the hell I got that from, but on your big girl pants. Yeah exactly, And just be and and lay down on the line and say us in we can't be friends anymore. It's it. I have feelings for you. We can't continue down this road and then give him an ultimatum because it's obviously frustrating from your standpoint, Julia, and you shouldn't have to put up with this, And unfortunately it seems like you're the one who has gonna have who's gonna have to step up and give some sort of ultimatum to say we can either progress and and see if this relationship develops into something, or we can't be friends anymore because I can't deal with the uncertainty of it. Does that make sense, fell us? Yes? And listen, I agree with everything you're saying. I just don't want two. I don't want to give a hope. But I also don't want to say that door is fully closed, because as we've seen with you, it's not fully closed ever. Really yes, but at the time I was also kind of given indirectly an ultimatum she was dating someone else, and that thing, I agree. I had to really come to terms too with myself to say I either step up and do something or continue living a life that might be lesser in my mind, because I'm just terrified of actually admitting, yeah, I'm screwed up. I might not know exactly what I want, and I might have been more confused, and I might be less of a man than you think I am. And so I think, uh, you know, I agree with everything saying. And listen, Julia, I think that the best thing that you can do is lay it all out there, see how it's received. If it's received, well, great. If it's not received, well, distance yourself from this person because it's just gonna drive you crazy. It's gonn drive him crazy. There's gonna be a lot of confusion, and it's not gonna be good for anyone involved. So clearly and see how it's taken by him, and hopefully it is well. And if it's not, then that sucks, but you just move on. Like honestly, hindsight, looking back, I wish I was more like Dean because everybody gave you crap for your first season of Paradise, but all you were was honest in the moment. I mean, you made your fair share mistakes, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, you weren't deceiving or misleading anybody. Let's not talk about this season, which must not be talked about anyways. That'll do for this week's episode of Help I Suck at Dating. You guys have been awesome as always the listeners, of course, Big thank you too, David and Annie from ninety Day Fiance for joining us. Be sure to check them out on TLC. The big thank you to Heather McDonald, who is going to be rolling out her comedy special here in the next couple of months. Be sure to check out her podcast, Juicy Scoop Juicy Scoop. Big thank you. Thank you to Julia for emailing in her questions about her weird dating life as she's dealing with it now. Big thank you to Jared for just being your regular vulnerable self. Big thank you to Dean for being your mustache best version of yourself, and Marketison Tory, Danielle and everyone at I Heeart as well. Every single week, be sure to tune in next week where maybe we suck just a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating with Dean, Vanessa and Jared on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast