Hi, Hell and Gone listeners. I was hoping we'd have a longer update for you today, But like with so many cases, investigations that happen in real time aren't like episodic TV where we can always end on a cliffhanger and give the audience closure in the end. Don't get me wrong, Billy Miller's conviction is a huge step in the right direction for getting justice for Rebecca Gold. And if this was a fictional TV show, we would be able to cut to the triumphant scene where the investigator puts the cold case file in a box, stamps it case closed, and slides it onto a shelf. I wish that that's what we were doing, but there's still way too many unanswered questions in this case to give me the feeling that I can move forward. As we said in our last episode, Rebecca's father, Dr. Larry Gould, was supposed to meet with the prosecutor Eric Hantz on no We were hoping that some of the questions that we've had about Rebecca his case for so long, questions about timelines and what interviews were initially done and what people said back then in two thousand four versus now, would be answered. Larry's plan was to have that meeting once he had Rebecca's entire case file in his hands. He had asked Eric Hants to get him that case file in ten to thirty days after the plea agreement with Billy Miller, which would have been by mid November, but after Larry emailed him to ask about the file, Eric let Larry know that the Prosecutor's office was going to need additional time. The Prosecutor's office claimed that this happened because the Arkansas State Police requested that they get the case file back so they could do the redactions themselves. The Prosecutor's office agreed to the ASPS request. Eric emailed Larry and said that he had not been aware that Larry needed the entire case file prior to their meeting. He offered Larry the option to reschedule the meeting, so Larry said that he would do that. He said he would prefer to wait and reschedule the meeting once he'd had time to go over all of the A, s P S documentation of Rebecca's case. We will of course keep you posted as to when that meeting takes place, but honestly, I'm not even sure that meeting will happen now, because Eric Hants is out of office on December thirty one, and then Deputy p A. Drew Smith will begin his term as the elected prosecutor on January one. So far, Larry says he has not heard anything about whether Drew would be willing to meet with him, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I've made a freedom of information request for Rebecca's case file. Technically, the entire case file should be made public after the redactions are done by the Arkansas State Police. The a SP told the Prosecutor's office that this process should take around another two weeks, which, according to my math, means that the case file would be ready around December nine, eighteenth, right before the holidays. As we've mentioned before, there's so many questions that we have about Billy's confession. I believe the case file could help answer a lot of those. The best way to confirm what happened to Rebecca is to go back to the original interviews with everyone, the ones that were done in two thousand four. We know this because when we did that, with the police statements from Casey's friends, we were able to find out there were major discrepancies and holes in Casey's alibi. There's also a new public information officer at the Arkansas State Police. The current spokesperson for the sp Bill Sadler, is set to retire at the end of the year and Latricia Woodruff is taking over. George Jared, who reported on Rebecca's case from the beginning, and others, have been pretty critical of Bill Saidler at times. They say that this was because he did not immediately inform the public of Rebecca being missing. I read an article on Camden News about Bill's life and career, and reading through this profile of Bill Sadler is actually really enlightening. In that article, Bill directly addresses that controversy. Bill told cam To News that in two thousand and six, after ten years with the sp AN incident happened that became a critical moment in his career and his life. Police were looking for a fugitive an eighteen year old named Adam Lee Ledford, whould escaped from a Michigan prison. Police got a tip about Adam's location. Troopers surrounded the suspect and when this man reached down with his hand, one of the officers thought he might be reaching for a weapon, and they fatally shot and killed him. It was several hours before the troopers realized the man who had been fatally shot was not the escaped fugitive at all. He was a twenty one year old named Joseph Aaron Hamley. He had cerebral palsy and was unarmed. This was a usually controversial incident in the Arkansas State Police, and they took a lot of criticism. Bill said that this fatal shooting really crystallized in his mind the importance of getting things right before releasing information to the public. And as for what he plans to do next. Interestingly, Bill said during his retirement he plans to take a look at unsolved murders in Little Rock during the nineteen seventies. He says he's not sure what form his investigations will take yet. I actually have met Latricia Woodruff. I met her when I was called into that weird meeting back in two thousand and eighteen with Mark Hollingsworth and Little Rock at the Arkansas State Police headquarters at the time. When she asked me why I wanted to follow a complaint against Dennis Simons, I told her point blank, I thought Dennis was hurting the investigation into Rebecca Gould's murder. I also told her I believed he was actively ignoring evidence. I have no idea what went on behind closed doors after I left that building, But after the podcast aired, pretty soon Dennis Simons was no longer the lead investigator on Rebecca's case. I still haven't heard from Billy Miller since I sent my letter, but I have heard that his wife has been contacting people from the Philippines. Apparently the story she is telling them about what Billy told her really happened in that trailer when Rebecca was murdered does not match Billy's story to the police. This is the reality of investigations. As we've said so many times before, it becomes a waiting game. I do have one more update, and it concerns Bill Sadler, a producer from forty eight Hours who I've been talking to for a long time about Rebecca's case, let me know that she wanted to cover the story. But she said when she contacted Bill Sadler, the first thing that he asked her was are you talking to Katherine Townsend. He then went on to tell her that she was talking to me or to Jennifer Buckles or George Jared, those three specific names, that the ASP would not participate in any story about Rebecca's case. The producer told me that for her this was a huge red flag as a journalist, which it should be, and I challenged the Arkansas State Police to change course with this policy, because if Bill Sadler means what he says in that article about his retirement, and he's all about honesty, then the Arkansas State Police should not be afraid to face some tough questions. The producer also let me know she had spoken to Mike McNeil, the new lead investigator on Rebecca's case. She said he indicated that he was willing to participate as long as she asked me what he called the hard questions. I'm really hoping that the new public Information officer has a similar attitude to Mike McNeill, because I am absolutely ready to answer any question that the Arkansas State Police has for me. I want and would expect to be asked hard questions. As I said before, my only motivation is getting to the truth about what really happened to Rebecca Gold. I'll see what happens there, and I will of course keep you posted. I did hear back about my freedom of information request. They got back to me and let me know they're gonna go ahead and process my request. So I am eagerly waiting for that case file to come back. I would consider that the best Christmas and Holiday present ever, and as soon as I have a chance to dive into it, I will report back to you all. Like I said in the first season, We're not stopping until we do our best to answer every question we can, to make the gray area clear, and to find out what really happened to Rebecca Gold. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and I Heart Media. Our producer is Gabby Watts. Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr and L. C. Crowe. Music is by Ben Sully. Special thanks to season one producers Taylor Church and James Morrison. School of Humans

Hi, Hell and Gone listeners. I was hoping we'd have a longer update for you today, But like with so many cases, investigations that happen in real time aren't like episodic TV where we can always end on a cliffhanger and give the audience closure in the end. Don't get me wrong, Billy Miller's conviction is a huge step in the right direction for getting justice for Rebecca Gold. And if this was a fictional TV show, we would be able to cut to the triumphant scene where the investigator puts the cold case file in a box, stamps it case closed, and slides it onto a shelf. I wish that that's what we were doing, but there's still way too many unanswered questions in this case to give me the feeling that I can move forward. As we said in our last episode, Rebecca's father, Dr. Larry Gould, was supposed to meet with the prosecutor Eric Hantz on no We were hoping that some of the questions that we've had about Rebecca his case for so long, questions about timelines and what interviews were initially done and what people said back then in two thousand four versus now, would be answered. Larry's plan was to have that meeting once he had Rebecca's entire case file in his hands. He had asked Eric Hants to get him that case file in ten to thirty days after the plea agreement with Billy Miller, which would have been by mid November, but after Larry emailed him to ask about the file, Eric let Larry know that the Prosecutor's office was going to need additional time. The Prosecutor's office claimed that this happened because the Arkansas State Police requested that they get the case file back so they could do the redactions themselves. The Prosecutor's office agreed to the ASPS request. Eric emailed Larry and said that he had not been aware that Larry needed the entire case file prior to their meeting. He offered Larry the option to reschedule the meeting, so Larry said that he would do that. He said he would prefer to wait and reschedule the meeting once he'd had time to go over all of the A, s P S documentation of Rebecca's case. We will of course keep you posted as to when that meeting takes place, but honestly, I'm not even sure that meeting will happen now, because Eric Hants is out of office on December thirty one, and then Deputy p A. Drew Smith will begin his term as the elected prosecutor on January one. So far, Larry says he has not heard anything about whether Drew would be willing to meet with him, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I've made a freedom of information request for Rebecca's case file. Technically, the entire case file should be made public after the redactions are done by the Arkansas State Police. The a SP told the Prosecutor's office that this process should take around another two weeks, which, according to my math, means that the case file would be ready around December nine, eighteenth, right before the holidays. As we've mentioned before, there's so many questions that we have about Billy's confession. I believe the case file could help answer a lot of those. The best way to confirm what happened to Rebecca is to go back to the original interviews with everyone, the ones that were done in two thousand four. We know this because when we did that, with the police statements from Casey's friends, we were able to find out there were major discrepancies and holes in Casey's alibi. There's also a new public information officer at the Arkansas State Police. The current spokesperson for the sp Bill Sadler, is set to retire at the end of the year and Latricia Woodruff is taking over. George Jared, who reported on Rebecca's case from the beginning, and others, have been pretty critical of Bill Saidler at times. They say that this was because he did not immediately inform the public of Rebecca being missing. I read an article on Camden News about Bill's life and career, and reading through this profile of Bill Sadler is actually really enlightening. In that article, Bill directly addresses that controversy. Bill told cam To News that in two thousand and six, after ten years with the sp AN incident happened that became a critical moment in his career and his life. Police were looking for a fugitive an eighteen year old named Adam Lee Ledford, whould escaped from a Michigan prison. Police got a tip about Adam's location. Troopers surrounded the suspect and when this man reached down with his hand, one of the officers thought he might be reaching for a weapon, and they fatally shot and killed him. It was several hours before the troopers realized the man who had been fatally shot was not the escaped fugitive at all. He was a twenty one year old named Joseph Aaron Hamley. He had cerebral palsy and was unarmed. This was a usually controversial incident in the Arkansas State Police, and they took a lot of criticism. Bill said that this fatal shooting really crystallized in his mind the importance of getting things right before releasing information to the public. And as for what he plans to do next. Interestingly, Bill said during his retirement he plans to take a look at unsolved murders in Little Rock during the nineteen seventies. He says he's not sure what form his investigations will take yet. I actually have met Latricia Woodruff. I met her when I was called into that weird meeting back in two thousand and eighteen with Mark Hollingsworth and Little Rock at the Arkansas State Police headquarters at the time. When she asked me why I wanted to follow a complaint against Dennis Simons, I told her point blank, I thought Dennis was hurting the investigation into Rebecca Gould's murder. I also told her I believed he was actively ignoring evidence. I have no idea what went on behind closed doors after I left that building, But after the podcast aired, pretty soon Dennis Simons was no longer the lead investigator on Rebecca's case. I still haven't heard from Billy Miller since I sent my letter, but I have heard that his wife has been contacting people from the Philippines. Apparently the story she is telling them about what Billy told her really happened in that trailer when Rebecca was murdered does not match Billy's story to the police. This is the reality of investigations. As we've said so many times before, it becomes a waiting game. I do have one more update, and it concerns Bill Sadler, a producer from forty eight Hours who I've been talking to for a long time about Rebecca's case, let me know that she wanted to cover the story. But she said when she contacted Bill Sadler, the first thing that he asked her was are you talking to Katherine Townsend. He then went on to tell her that she was talking to me or to Jennifer Buckles or George Jared, those three specific names, that the ASP would not participate in any story about Rebecca's case. The producer told me that for her this was a huge red flag as a journalist, which it should be, and I challenged the Arkansas State Police to change course with this policy, because if Bill Sadler means what he says in that article about his retirement, and he's all about honesty, then the Arkansas State Police should not be afraid to face some tough questions. The producer also let me know she had spoken to Mike McNeil, the new lead investigator on Rebecca's case. She said he indicated that he was willing to participate as long as she asked me what he called the hard questions. I'm really hoping that the new public Information officer has a similar attitude to Mike McNeill, because I am absolutely ready to answer any question that the Arkansas State Police has for me. I want and would expect to be asked hard questions. As I said before, my only motivation is getting to the truth about what really happened to Rebecca Gold. I'll see what happens there, and I will of course keep you posted. I did hear back about my freedom of information request. They got back to me and let me know they're gonna go ahead and process my request. So I am eagerly waiting for that case file to come back. I would consider that the best Christmas and Holiday present ever, and as soon as I have a chance to dive into it, I will report back to you all. Like I said in the first season, We're not stopping until we do our best to answer every question we can, to make the gray area clear, and to find out what really happened to Rebecca Gold. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and I Heart Media. Our producer is Gabby Watts. Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr and L. C. Crowe. Music is by Ben Sully. Special thanks to season one producers Taylor Church and James Morrison. School of Humans