School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

Just after midnight on July sixth, and nineteen ninety seven, twenty one year old Marty Lebuff, twenty six year old Stacy Reeves, and fourteen year old Nicole Guidry were fatally shot in a triple homicide at Kk's Corner convenience store near Late Charles, Louisiana. The killing shocked the community for months, police struggled to find answers. No one seemed to have seen anything, and there was no real physical evidence, But it turned out there was a lone witness, a woman named Virginia Johnson, who had been at the gas station at around eleven forty five pm on July fifth, just before closing. Stacy was closing up the store when Virginia got there. She left Virginia inside so that Virginia could buy ten dollars worth of gas. Virginia later testified that she handed the money to Marty lebuff. At this point, Stacey was mopping the floors and Virginia saw Nicole sitting on one of the counters. That was when a black car with two men inside it drove up. When one of the men walked in, Virginia bumped into him. She later worked with an artist to create the composite sketch. All that she remembered at first about the other man, the one who walked into the gas station while she was paying, whom Virginia didn't really see, was that he had a Warborough keychain hanging from a front pocket. But under hypnosis she was able to remember more details about that other man, and then, almost seven months after the killings, an episode of America's Most Wanted air with details of the two men Virginia Johnson saw minutes before the murders, and by then the keychain was portrayed as a rabbit's foot keychain in the reenactment. This led to someone calling in a tip about a male friend of Stacy Reeves, twenty nine year old Tomas Cisco, who lived in New Orleans, but who would apparently come to the Lake Charles area around two weeks before the triple homicide. Police questioned Thomas Cisco. He confessed he had been at kk's corner on the night of the murders. He said that he was involved, but as we explained last week, Thomas told a lot of conflicting stories and a lot of the details that he gave to detectives trying to confirm his stories didn't make sense. Was it Thomas or someone else at Kk's corner that night? And if he was there, who was the second man? Could the killer or killers still be out there? I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six one four five at six seven eight seven four four, six, one four or five, or you can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. One year after the brutal murders at kk's corner, Thomas Cisco had been arrested and was starting to talk. The man who'd confessed to the killings was behind bars, and yet there were a lot of people in the community who believed that Thomas Cisco was not the killer, and many including the Calcashue Parish District Attorney Rick Bryant, who believed that even if Thomas was part of the carn kk's that night, that he did not act alone. Deputy Donald Lucky Deluge at the time, was the director of the Violent Crimes Task Force, which he ran with help from the FBI and other law enforcement organizations. Deputy Deluge was heading up the investigation and was the one who directed or heard all of Thomas Cisco's confessions. As we said last week, there were a lot of them. On August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Thomas Cisco said that he and a man named Robert big Penn were planning to rob kk's corner. Big Penn's wife and sister had driven Nicole Guidry to work the night she, Marty, and Stacy were murdered. Thomas said Robert told him that they were going to rob kk's corner, but Robert had other plans.

Just after midnight on July sixth, and nineteen ninety seven, twenty one year old Marty Lebuff, twenty six year old Stacy Reeves, and fourteen year old Nicole Guidry were fatally shot in a triple homicide at Kk's Corner convenience store near Late Charles, Louisiana. The killing shocked the community for months, police struggled to find answers. No one seemed to have seen anything, and there was no real physical evidence, But it turned out there was a lone witness, a woman named Virginia Johnson, who had been at the gas station at around eleven forty five pm on July fifth, just before closing. Stacy was closing up the store when Virginia got there. She left Virginia inside so that Virginia could buy ten dollars worth of gas. Virginia later testified that she handed the money to Marty lebuff. At this point, Stacey was mopping the floors and Virginia saw Nicole sitting on one of the counters. That was when a black car with two men inside it drove up. When one of the men walked in, Virginia bumped into him. She later worked with an artist to create the composite sketch. All that she remembered at first about the other man, the one who walked into the gas station while she was paying, whom Virginia didn't really see, was that he had a Warborough keychain hanging from a front pocket. But under hypnosis she was able to remember more details about that other man, and then, almost seven months after the killings, an episode of America's Most Wanted air with details of the two men Virginia Johnson saw minutes before the murders, and by then the keychain was portrayed as a rabbit's foot keychain in the reenactment. This led to someone calling in a tip about a male friend of Stacy Reeves, twenty nine year old Tomas Cisco, who lived in New Orleans, but who would apparently come to the Lake Charles area around two weeks before the triple homicide. Police questioned Thomas Cisco. He confessed he had been at kk's corner on the night of the murders. He said that he was involved, but as we explained last week, Thomas told a lot of conflicting stories and a lot of the details that he gave to detectives trying to confirm his stories didn't make sense. Was it Thomas or someone else at Kk's corner that night? And if he was there, who was the second man? Could the killer or killers still be out there? I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six one four five at six seven eight seven four four, six, one four or five, or you can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. One year after the brutal murders at kk's corner, Thomas Cisco had been arrested and was starting to talk. The man who'd confessed to the killings was behind bars, and yet there were a lot of people in the community who believed that Thomas Cisco was not the killer, and many including the Calcashue Parish District Attorney Rick Bryant, who believed that even if Thomas was part of the carn kk's that night, that he did not act alone. Deputy Donald Lucky Deluge at the time, was the director of the Violent Crimes Task Force, which he ran with help from the FBI and other law enforcement organizations. Deputy Deluge was heading up the investigation and was the one who directed or heard all of Thomas Cisco's confessions. As we said last week, there were a lot of them. On August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Thomas Cisco said that he and a man named Robert big Penn were planning to rob kk's corner. Big Penn's wife and sister had driven Nicole Guidry to work the night she, Marty, and Stacy were murdered. Thomas said Robert told him that they were going to rob kk's corner, but Robert had other plans.

He told me, this was a plan for us today. We would go there. She would go through the front. I would meet you at the back where he could let me. He would cut the wires to the phone into the launeless so that nobody could call the cops. And he said that he would kill everybody there if he had.

He told me, this was a plan for us today. We would go there. She would go through the front. I would meet you at the back where he could let me. He would cut the wires to the phone into the launeless so that nobody could call the cops. And he said that he would kill everybody there if he had.

As Thomas went through this story, he said that Robert bumped into the witness on purpose because Robert was being a smart ass, and that Robert had said something about her being a bitch immediately. There were problems with this story. First of all, Thomas described the witness as short, medium built, and white, but Virginia is black. And he mentioned going through a back door, but kk's corner does not have a back door. They do, however, have a side door. Thomas said that they were robbing this door and that Robert led the victims into the back cooler one by one, Marty first, then Nicole, then Stacy, and shot them each multiple times with a nine millimeter gun. He said that he was left outside the cooler with Stacy, who was begging for her life while he held her a gunpoint with a thirty eight caliber gun. He said that he was distraught because Thomas described Stacy as his best friend, but he said that he let Robert lead her into the cooler anyway.

As Thomas went through this story, he said that Robert bumped into the witness on purpose because Robert was being a smart ass, and that Robert had said something about her being a bitch immediately. There were problems with this story. First of all, Thomas described the witness as short, medium built, and white, but Virginia is black. And he mentioned going through a back door, but kk's corner does not have a back door. They do, however, have a side door. Thomas said that they were robbing this door and that Robert led the victims into the back cooler one by one, Marty first, then Nicole, then Stacy, and shot them each multiple times with a nine millimeter gun. He said that he was left outside the cooler with Stacy, who was begging for her life while he held her a gunpoint with a thirty eight caliber gun. He said that he was distraught because Thomas described Stacy as his best friend, but he said that he let Robert lead her into the cooler anyway.

Stacy's telling me, please let me go. What I tell her is if I let you go, he's gonna shoot both of us. Can't her? Straighten me? I I mean, I want to bust out in tears, dude, because I'm the one sitting there hold my best friend, the GOP that I've known for years. I know what's going to happen to her. Hell, it just happened to the other two. I know what he's going to do. He ain't gonna let none of them well, and she's telling me please let me go. I told her I can't because if I do, he's gonna kill both of them. He says, come on, you're next, Stacey, and she's walk back there with you, and that's when I heard this up four shots.

Stacy's telling me, please let me go. What I tell her is if I let you go, he's gonna shoot both of us. Can't her? Straighten me? I I mean, I want to bust out in tears, dude, because I'm the one sitting there hold my best friend, the GOP that I've known for years. I know what's going to happen to her. Hell, it just happened to the other two. I know what he's going to do. He ain't gonna let none of them well, and she's telling me please let me go. I told her I can't because if I do, he's gonna kill both of them. He says, come on, you're next, Stacey, and she's walk back there with you, and that's when I heard this up four shots.

According to police, there was not really any physical evidence to test against Thomas's story. The crime lab determined based on bullet fragments that a nine millimeters semi automatic pistol had been used, but they never found the murder weapon and there were no usable fingerprints. Some of the details of Thomas Cisco's story appeared to match the evidence, like the order that the victims were killed in. According to The Southwest Daily News, the Calcashue Parish coroner Terry Welk, testified that it was his belief that Marty Lebuff was shot first because of his position near the back of the cooler. Nicole Guidry was next. The killer probably forced Nicole to sit on her knees. Her position was consistent with sitting on her knees, back on her heels with her head bowed. She was also shot once in the leg. Stacy was last. She was shot once in the face and once in the back of the head. The coroner said the gunshot powder in Stacy's eyes made him believe that she had her eyes open and was facing her killer, and that the first shot forced her head around. After confessing to Deputy Delution and saying that Robert Digpen was the shooter and that he was the accomplice, Thomas wrote a letter on legal paper that he said was to Stacy, who had been his good friend. Thomas cried as he read the letter to Deputy Delus.

According to police, there was not really any physical evidence to test against Thomas's story. The crime lab determined based on bullet fragments that a nine millimeters semi automatic pistol had been used, but they never found the murder weapon and there were no usable fingerprints. Some of the details of Thomas Cisco's story appeared to match the evidence, like the order that the victims were killed in. According to The Southwest Daily News, the Calcashue Parish coroner Terry Welk, testified that it was his belief that Marty Lebuff was shot first because of his position near the back of the cooler. Nicole Guidry was next. The killer probably forced Nicole to sit on her knees. Her position was consistent with sitting on her knees, back on her heels with her head bowed. She was also shot once in the leg. Stacy was last. She was shot once in the face and once in the back of the head. The coroner said the gunshot powder in Stacy's eyes made him believe that she had her eyes open and was facing her killer, and that the first shot forced her head around. After confessing to Deputy Delution and saying that Robert Digpen was the shooter and that he was the accomplice, Thomas wrote a letter on legal paper that he said was to Stacy, who had been his good friend. Thomas cried as he read the letter to Deputy Delus.

I notice, while we were round the room, you were writing something. If you might have read Richard wrote a blood but said Stacy, I want you to know. Weren't you read this? Is it probably easier for you to read your writing to make Stacy. I want you to know that I'm really sorry for what happened.

I notice, while we were round the room, you were writing something. If you might have read Richard wrote a blood but said Stacy, I want you to know. Weren't you read this? Is it probably easier for you to read your writing to make Stacy. I want you to know that I'm really sorry for what happened.

If I knew you were you were glorad to be there that hey, I would have never let it out.

If I knew you were you were glorad to be there that hey, I would have never let it out.

Please don't understand. If I could take your place in the other's place, I would. If it was up to me that night.

Please don't understand. If I could take your place in the other's place, I would. If it was up to me that night.

I would have I would have done that totally different.

I would have I would have done that totally different.

I would have just took all the morning and took my chances of getting caught.

I would have just took all the morning and took my chances of getting caught.

I know that you could never forgive me, but I really sawry from the bottom of my heart, no matter what happened, I still love.

I know that you could never forgive me, but I really sawry from the bottom of my heart, no matter what happened, I still love.

You, Sis. If you can find me in your please forgive me if you can.

You, Sis. If you can find me in your please forgive me if you can.

I'm paying for what I did, and he will pay for what he did because I'm willing to do everything in my power to see that he is called.

I'm paying for what I did, and he will pay for what he did because I'm willing to do everything in my power to see that he is called.

I promise I cry a lot since.

I promise I cry a lot since.

Your believe Yeah, I do again. I'm really sorry about everything. By this, I love you very much to me.

Your believe Yeah, I do again. I'm really sorry about everything. By this, I love you very much to me.

Just days later, Thomas Cisco said that he had lied and that Robert Thigpen was not the shooter. According to Deputy to Loosh, Thomas said he made that story up because he didn't like Robert this time. Thomas said he wasn't even at kk's corner that night. He said the only reason that he confessed at all was because the FBI was harassing him. He said that he had lost his job and his place to live, and he just wanted everything to be over.

Just days later, Thomas Cisco said that he had lied and that Robert Thigpen was not the shooter. According to Deputy to Loosh, Thomas said he made that story up because he didn't like Robert this time. Thomas said he wasn't even at kk's corner that night. He said the only reason that he confessed at all was because the FBI was harassing him. He said that he had lost his job and his place to live, and he just wanted everything to be over.

The only reason I know the way out from the stores because I have been there before.

The only reason I know the way out from the stores because I have been there before.

Now this may sound illogical, but the director of an alcohol and drug treatment center where Thomas Cisco spent some time testified that Thomas had personality disorders and arrested development due to substance abuse. From the age of six. Thomas told a psychiatrist he started drinking at age eight and was using drugs daily by age fifteen. Months later, in January of nineteen ninety nine, Thomas Cisco had another story. This time he said he was there with two guys who he identified as Bobby and Malcolm. Later he would say that a fourth man named Chris was there too. There were other stories as well between nineteen and thirty five. Depending on which version of the news report you watch or read, sometimes Thomas said he was the shooter, sometimes a bystander. Thomas has said at very eous times that a Spanish guy and a black guy from New Orleans did it. But in all of these various versions of the story, there were still a lot of details that didn't match, like the fact that at one point he said that he tied the victim's hands, but investigators said the victim's hands were not tied. Or he said that Marty was looking at him when forensic evidence showed Marty was shot in the back of the head, but police believed that Thomas Cisco was involved somehow. Thomas Cisco was charged with the murders of Marty, Stacy, and Nicole. He was being held before trial, but he was still talking. It came out during the trial that he talked to the coroner, to warden's at the jail, and a fellow prisoners, and one of the stories that he told, one that was played on audio tapes at his trial, was that the killings were a hit and that Stacy was the target, and that Richard mcelvin, the son of Sheriff Wayne mccelvin, had hired him to kill Stacy because she quote knew too much about the death of Kevin Abel, her friend who she had started dating. Kevin Abel died at his home in May of nineteen ninety seven, just a few weeks before the Kk's Corner killings. Kevin's death was ruled a suicide, but Stacy didn't believe this. She believed that Kevin was murdered. We said last week that Richard mcelvin voluntarily went in for questioning, he gave blood samples, he had an alibi, and he was cleared by law enforcement. We talked to Stacy's daughter, Tiffany. Tiffany was only twenty three months old when her mother was killed, and she told us that she, her family and a lot of people in Kalkashi Parish do not think that Tomas Cisco acted alone.

Now this may sound illogical, but the director of an alcohol and drug treatment center where Thomas Cisco spent some time testified that Thomas had personality disorders and arrested development due to substance abuse. From the age of six. Thomas told a psychiatrist he started drinking at age eight and was using drugs daily by age fifteen. Months later, in January of nineteen ninety nine, Thomas Cisco had another story. This time he said he was there with two guys who he identified as Bobby and Malcolm. Later he would say that a fourth man named Chris was there too. There were other stories as well between nineteen and thirty five. Depending on which version of the news report you watch or read, sometimes Thomas said he was the shooter, sometimes a bystander. Thomas has said at very eous times that a Spanish guy and a black guy from New Orleans did it. But in all of these various versions of the story, there were still a lot of details that didn't match, like the fact that at one point he said that he tied the victim's hands, but investigators said the victim's hands were not tied. Or he said that Marty was looking at him when forensic evidence showed Marty was shot in the back of the head, but police believed that Thomas Cisco was involved somehow. Thomas Cisco was charged with the murders of Marty, Stacy, and Nicole. He was being held before trial, but he was still talking. It came out during the trial that he talked to the coroner, to warden's at the jail, and a fellow prisoners, and one of the stories that he told, one that was played on audio tapes at his trial, was that the killings were a hit and that Stacy was the target, and that Richard mcelvin, the son of Sheriff Wayne mccelvin, had hired him to kill Stacy because she quote knew too much about the death of Kevin Abel, her friend who she had started dating. Kevin Abel died at his home in May of nineteen ninety seven, just a few weeks before the Kk's Corner killings. Kevin's death was ruled a suicide, but Stacy didn't believe this. She believed that Kevin was murdered. We said last week that Richard mcelvin voluntarily went in for questioning, he gave blood samples, he had an alibi, and he was cleared by law enforcement. We talked to Stacy's daughter, Tiffany. Tiffany was only twenty three months old when her mother was killed, and she told us that she, her family and a lot of people in Kalkashi Parish do not think that Tomas Cisco acted alone.

Well, I think the reason for that is because most people honestly believed he was not the trigger man, and he was the doorman, and he didn't do this alone. We know there's no way he could have done this alone. So, you know, we silly's done and they're now were ready to see somebody else pay for what.

Well, I think the reason for that is because most people honestly believed he was not the trigger man, and he was the doorman, and he didn't do this alone. We know there's no way he could have done this alone. So, you know, we silly's done and they're now were ready to see somebody else pay for what.

They've done again.

They've done again.

Richard mcelvin was cleared by police who say they checked his alibi for that night, and Tomas Cisco has been discredited after admittedly lying several times. So why does Stacy's family believe that she was the target. Stacy had told people the week before she was murdered that someone had come into the store and threatened her to stop her from talking about Kevin Abel's death and about drug deals that were allegedly happening inside kk's corner. Stacy's family say they were stopped from going inside the press conference.

Richard mcelvin was cleared by police who say they checked his alibi for that night, and Tomas Cisco has been discredited after admittedly lying several times. So why does Stacy's family believe that she was the target. Stacy had told people the week before she was murdered that someone had come into the store and threatened her to stop her from talking about Kevin Abel's death and about drug deals that were allegedly happening inside kk's corner. Stacy's family say they were stopped from going inside the press conference.

So the press conference with Wayne mclvin where Wayne mcgilvin addressed the public, where our family was.

So the press conference with Wayne mclvin where Wayne mcgilvin addressed the public, where our family was.

Not let in.

Not let in.

We were stopped at the door. I think you know, the word around the town that it was his son. You know, that was the composite sketch of and the one that was a Sugarman with his son Steven. He just didn't like that, and so he told my grandfather, I hate y'all more than I feel sorry for y'all.

We were stopped at the door. I think you know, the word around the town that it was his son. You know, that was the composite sketch of and the one that was a Sugarman with his son Steven. He just didn't like that, and so he told my grandfather, I hate y'all more than I feel sorry for y'all.

So what do we know about Stacy's relationship with Kevin Abel. Her family say that they were dating and that Kevin had been into drugs though he was trying to get clean. Kevin had a young daughter who was about two years old at the time of his death. Stacy's twin daughters were twenty three months old when she was murdered. Robert T. Bob Rogers, Stacy's uncle, said that Stacy was a caring and loving person, but that she began hanging around with what he called the wrong crowd.

So what do we know about Stacy's relationship with Kevin Abel. Her family say that they were dating and that Kevin had been into drugs though he was trying to get clean. Kevin had a young daughter who was about two years old at the time of his death. Stacy's twin daughters were twenty three months old when she was murdered. Robert T. Bob Rogers, Stacy's uncle, said that Stacy was a caring and loving person, but that she began hanging around with what he called the wrong crowd.

She was a good kid, just trying to raise her daughter.

She was a good kid, just trying to raise her daughter.

She was running around with the wrong crowd.

She was running around with the wrong crowd.

She was trying to save people she thought she could save. She thought she could save Kevin Abel from drugs. She couldn't. She got involved in it too deep.

She was trying to save people she thought she could save. She thought she could save Kevin Abel from drugs. She couldn't. She got involved in it too deep.

Kevin Abel died at home on Saturday, May seventeenth, to nineteen ninety seven. The coroner arrived on scene at nine thirty five pm and ruled the death of suicide. Eight minutes later, at nine forty three PM. I've gotten calls from sources who lived in the trailer part Fairview Estates where Kevin lived. This trailer part, by the way, is about a quarter mile from kk's corner. They say that Kevin was involved in drugs and that he would loan his truck out to drug dealers for several days at a time to use his collateral when he couldn't pay his debts. Kevin left behind a two year old daughter and a family who loved him. We found out that Stacy showed up at his house while the police were still there right after the fatal shooting, shortly after nine thirty PM. According to the incident report, Stacy told police she and Kevin had a date that night and that she had been planning to pick him up. Her family say that Stacy believed, even if Kevin had been planning on taking his own life, that he would not have done it when she was on her way to visit him with her young twin daughters. Kevin lived in the fair View trailer Park, just a quarter of a mile from kk's corner. He was addicted to crack and according to multiple sources, he owed money to drug dealers, and they believe that some of those drug dealers might have links to law enforcement. Could Stacy have been right and was she threatened before the triple homicide at Kk's or even if she was wrong, even if Kevin's death was a suicide, if she was making claims that he was murdered and the wrong people heard that, could that have made Stacy a target? From what the coroner said, Marty Lebeuff was the first victim that night at Kk's corner. His sister, Laura Duhan said she will never forget the day that she got the call about her brother being brutally murdered.

Kevin Abel died at home on Saturday, May seventeenth, to nineteen ninety seven. The coroner arrived on scene at nine thirty five pm and ruled the death of suicide. Eight minutes later, at nine forty three PM. I've gotten calls from sources who lived in the trailer part Fairview Estates where Kevin lived. This trailer part, by the way, is about a quarter mile from kk's corner. They say that Kevin was involved in drugs and that he would loan his truck out to drug dealers for several days at a time to use his collateral when he couldn't pay his debts. Kevin left behind a two year old daughter and a family who loved him. We found out that Stacy showed up at his house while the police were still there right after the fatal shooting, shortly after nine thirty PM. According to the incident report, Stacy told police she and Kevin had a date that night and that she had been planning to pick him up. Her family say that Stacy believed, even if Kevin had been planning on taking his own life, that he would not have done it when she was on her way to visit him with her young twin daughters. Kevin lived in the fair View trailer Park, just a quarter of a mile from kk's corner. He was addicted to crack and according to multiple sources, he owed money to drug dealers, and they believe that some of those drug dealers might have links to law enforcement. Could Stacy have been right and was she threatened before the triple homicide at Kk's or even if she was wrong, even if Kevin's death was a suicide, if she was making claims that he was murdered and the wrong people heard that, could that have made Stacy a target? From what the coroner said, Marty Lebeuff was the first victim that night at Kk's corner. His sister, Laura Duhan said she will never forget the day that she got the call about her brother being brutally murdered.

I was actually a nurse practitioner at the hospital here. I work with newborns, and I had gone to work that morning and one of the nurses that I worked with said that she lived out there by the store, and she said there's crime scene tape all up around the store and so mean. My first thought was, you know, maybe the store was robbed. It never occurred to me that anything is violent had happened. Anyway, I went into the dressing room to change into scrubs, and somebody came and got me and they said, Laura, your mom's on the phone. She was telling me, Laura, they killed my Marty. They killed my Marty. And I was just like, no, Mom, I'll be right there. So I ended up leaving and going to her house and they had an ambulance at the house. She was just completely purple in the face. They had her on oxygen and she had to go to the EVAR and she was just screaming and screaming. I remember a detective coming to talk to my dad. My dad had been a detective sheriff's apartment years before that. They just felt like they could talk to him like he was one of them and not like he was the parent. And I remember sitting beside my dad as a detective described to him how they found Marty and how he had blood in his lungs and that they felt like he had laid their gasping, and I remember thinking that there's no reason for him to tell Dad that that that was cruel. I remember people calling the house and asking to speak to Marty, but you kind of knew that they already knew he was gone. They were just calling to see if it was true. I guess I don't know.

I was actually a nurse practitioner at the hospital here. I work with newborns, and I had gone to work that morning and one of the nurses that I worked with said that she lived out there by the store, and she said there's crime scene tape all up around the store and so mean. My first thought was, you know, maybe the store was robbed. It never occurred to me that anything is violent had happened. Anyway, I went into the dressing room to change into scrubs, and somebody came and got me and they said, Laura, your mom's on the phone. She was telling me, Laura, they killed my Marty. They killed my Marty. And I was just like, no, Mom, I'll be right there. So I ended up leaving and going to her house and they had an ambulance at the house. She was just completely purple in the face. They had her on oxygen and she had to go to the EVAR and she was just screaming and screaming. I remember a detective coming to talk to my dad. My dad had been a detective sheriff's apartment years before that. They just felt like they could talk to him like he was one of them and not like he was the parent. And I remember sitting beside my dad as a detective described to him how they found Marty and how he had blood in his lungs and that they felt like he had laid their gasping, and I remember thinking that there's no reason for him to tell Dad that that that was cruel. I remember people calling the house and asking to speak to Marty, but you kind of knew that they already knew he was gone. They were just calling to see if it was true. I guess I don't know.

After police arrested Tomas Cisco and put him into an isolation cell. According to court documents, he was assigned an attorney by the court, Evelyn Ubray, but right away there were questions about a conflict of interest because Evelyn was also representing Deputy de Lush and what was referred to as unspecified family court matters, which the court documents called a clear and undeniable conflict of interest. Missus zu Bray said she first spoke to Tomasisco on September fourteenth, nineteen ninety eight. Two days later, she apparently realized there could be a potential conflict of interests. She sent Thomas a letter saying she believed she didn't have a conflict of interest, but she left it up to Thomas to decide whether or not he still wanted her to be his lawyer. A member of the local defense bar named Thomas Lorenzi was concerned, so he wrote a letter on October ninth, nineteen ninety eight, to the district Court, and in that letter he claimed that because there were allegations of criminality made against Deputy Deluge in that family court matter, the pleadings of the domestic case were placed under seal. So this attorney who wrote the letter said he was concerned that the conflict of interest could not have been fully explained to Thomas Cisco. Thomas's trial started in two thousand, with Evelyn u Bray representing him. The trial judge did bring up the potential conflict again. This time, the judge asked Thomas directly whether he'd read and understood the letter. Thomas said he had, so, the court ruled that the defense counsel, missus u Bray, could continue to be Thomas's lawyer. Both the trial judge and the defense attorney left it up to Thomas to decide for himself whether the conflict of interest existed. This will come up later at appeal. At one point, Thomas was convinced that Deputy Deluche and missus Zubray were colluding against him. However, when he was asked about this by the court, he said he didn't have any doubts about missus u Bray representing him. Deputy Deluche was married to his wife in nineteen ninety. They divorced a few years later. According to the book Murder in the Bayou, Deputy Deluche's ex wife accused him and his girlfriend at the time of sexually molesting their daughter, who was then about four years old. So Deputy Deluge was charged with aggravated rape and aggravated oral sexual battery charges on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, right in the middle of the kk's Corner investigation. Missus Zubray was his attorney. In court documents, it's very clear the state's case boils down to the testimony of two people, Virginia Johnson, the witness, and Thomas Cisco. We've already explained how problematic Thomas Cisco's testimony potentially was, but Virginia's witness ID had problems as well. First of all, Virginia Johnson had never been able to give a description of the man inside the gas station, the one she didn't bump into, but she said he had a Marlborough keychain. Yet when Deputy Deluge held a lineup, she identified Tomas Cisco, and at that time she was also apparently able to remember details for the first time, including that the man she didn't see that well had a tattoo on his left hand. Thomas has tattoos on both hands. Later, she was hypnotized, and it was only under hypnosis that she remembered a rabbit head keychain, not a rabbit foot, and yet in the Marrior Because Most Wanted episode, the re enactment is done with the actor wearing a rabbit's foot key chain. Of course, it's possible Thomas Sisko wasn't even there on the night of the kk's Corner murders, that the whole thing was a false confession. This was the argument that Thomas's lawyers were leaning on during the trial. Thomas's attorney, Missus zu Bray, said that he gave the false confessions because he lacked quote a mature and established self identity, and therefore he was easily influenced by persons and authority and chameleon like would say anything in an effort to please whomever he was with end quote. However, it was ruled at trial that the expert presenting on false confession syndrome did not have enough expertise, so there couldn't be any more arguments presented about false confession syndrome. We have done Foyer requests for the entire recordings of Thomas's confession with Deputy Deluge. So far we have not had any luck, but the confessions lasted for several hours. The response that we got to our Feyer Requests indicates that even though Thomas Cisco has been tried, the second man was never found, so it's still classified as an open investigation, and the incident report we did receive was heavily redacted. Some of the pages we got are basically Sheriff's department letterhead with one giant black square. Marty's brother, Lane Lebeuff has spoken to several people over the years and helped create a Facebook group Remembering Kk's Corner twenty five years later to continue to collect tips related to the Kk's Corner murders.

After police arrested Tomas Cisco and put him into an isolation cell. According to court documents, he was assigned an attorney by the court, Evelyn Ubray, but right away there were questions about a conflict of interest because Evelyn was also representing Deputy de Lush and what was referred to as unspecified family court matters, which the court documents called a clear and undeniable conflict of interest. Missus zu Bray said she first spoke to Tomasisco on September fourteenth, nineteen ninety eight. Two days later, she apparently realized there could be a potential conflict of interests. She sent Thomas a letter saying she believed she didn't have a conflict of interest, but she left it up to Thomas to decide whether or not he still wanted her to be his lawyer. A member of the local defense bar named Thomas Lorenzi was concerned, so he wrote a letter on October ninth, nineteen ninety eight, to the district Court, and in that letter he claimed that because there were allegations of criminality made against Deputy Deluge in that family court matter, the pleadings of the domestic case were placed under seal. So this attorney who wrote the letter said he was concerned that the conflict of interest could not have been fully explained to Thomas Cisco. Thomas's trial started in two thousand, with Evelyn u Bray representing him. The trial judge did bring up the potential conflict again. This time, the judge asked Thomas directly whether he'd read and understood the letter. Thomas said he had, so, the court ruled that the defense counsel, missus u Bray, could continue to be Thomas's lawyer. Both the trial judge and the defense attorney left it up to Thomas to decide for himself whether the conflict of interest existed. This will come up later at appeal. At one point, Thomas was convinced that Deputy Deluche and missus Zubray were colluding against him. However, when he was asked about this by the court, he said he didn't have any doubts about missus u Bray representing him. Deputy Deluche was married to his wife in nineteen ninety. They divorced a few years later. According to the book Murder in the Bayou, Deputy Deluche's ex wife accused him and his girlfriend at the time of sexually molesting their daughter, who was then about four years old. So Deputy Deluge was charged with aggravated rape and aggravated oral sexual battery charges on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, right in the middle of the kk's Corner investigation. Missus Zubray was his attorney. In court documents, it's very clear the state's case boils down to the testimony of two people, Virginia Johnson, the witness, and Thomas Cisco. We've already explained how problematic Thomas Cisco's testimony potentially was, but Virginia's witness ID had problems as well. First of all, Virginia Johnson had never been able to give a description of the man inside the gas station, the one she didn't bump into, but she said he had a Marlborough keychain. Yet when Deputy Deluge held a lineup, she identified Tomas Cisco, and at that time she was also apparently able to remember details for the first time, including that the man she didn't see that well had a tattoo on his left hand. Thomas has tattoos on both hands. Later, she was hypnotized, and it was only under hypnosis that she remembered a rabbit head keychain, not a rabbit foot, and yet in the Marrior Because Most Wanted episode, the re enactment is done with the actor wearing a rabbit's foot key chain. Of course, it's possible Thomas Sisko wasn't even there on the night of the kk's Corner murders, that the whole thing was a false confession. This was the argument that Thomas's lawyers were leaning on during the trial. Thomas's attorney, Missus zu Bray, said that he gave the false confessions because he lacked quote a mature and established self identity, and therefore he was easily influenced by persons and authority and chameleon like would say anything in an effort to please whomever he was with end quote. However, it was ruled at trial that the expert presenting on false confession syndrome did not have enough expertise, so there couldn't be any more arguments presented about false confession syndrome. We have done Foyer requests for the entire recordings of Thomas's confession with Deputy Deluge. So far we have not had any luck, but the confessions lasted for several hours. The response that we got to our Feyer Requests indicates that even though Thomas Cisco has been tried, the second man was never found, so it's still classified as an open investigation, and the incident report we did receive was heavily redacted. Some of the pages we got are basically Sheriff's department letterhead with one giant black square. Marty's brother, Lane Lebeuff has spoken to several people over the years and helped create a Facebook group Remembering Kk's Corner twenty five years later to continue to collect tips related to the Kk's Corner murders.

The story I got is that he was picked up by the main goal for picked up at his apartment in New Orleans and fed a bunch of drugs on the way back to Lake Charles, and he was supposed to be in the lookout.

The story I got is that he was picked up by the main goal for picked up at his apartment in New Orleans and fed a bunch of drugs on the way back to Lake Charles, and he was supposed to be in the lookout.

Lane has told us he does not believe that Thomas Cisco acted alone, but again, the series of events that took place on the night of the killings is difficult to figure out because Thomas Cisco has told so many different stories. Three years after the murders at kk's Corner in the fall of two thousand, Thomas Cisco's trial started. Nine days later. He was convicted of murder and sentenced to death by lethal injection. Thomas appealed. His attorney argued that Thomas had not knowingly and intelligently waived his right to have an attorney with no existing conflict, and later the Louisiana State Supreme Court ruled in his favor. They reversed the conviction and ordered a new trial. In the end, Thomas Cisco's attorneys got him a deal. He pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and was sentenced to ninety years in prison. Now how just that sentences really depends on who you ask. Some people believe that Thomas Cisco should stay behind bars for the rest of his life. Others say that, due to the fact they believe he did not act alone, that he should be freed. He became eligible for parole in twenty twenty three. He almost got out, but days before he was due to be released, his parole was rescinded due to an infraction he committed before appearing before the parole board. It apparently involved medication that he wasn't supposed to have. So he's still in Angola and according to the latest information I can find, he's next eligible for parole. In twenty twenty five, there was a show on ID called Killer in Question. They talked to former district attorney Rick Bryant, who prosecuted Tomas Cisco for the Kk's Corner murders. He told the local news station, quote, I know he didn't do it alone. There's no doubt in my mind. There were at least two people, and I base that on number one. To control three people in a store is difficult enough, but number two, an eyewitness, Virginia Johnson, saw two people. End quote. Rick Bryant said on the ID show he believes he knows who the second killer may be, saying, quote, this guy was from New Orleans, he was Cisco's, one of Cisco's best friends, and he is a perfect match to the composite drawing that was shown on TV. But Rick Bryant said police have spoken with that man and that the man claimed to have been with his girlfriend not in Lake Charles on the night of the murders. Rick Bryant said he would love to prosecute the second gunman, if there was one, but he says it's a tough case. They have no physical evidence and no other witnesses, so the only way that someone else could be tried or convicted is if someone confessed and if they could back up that confession, or if they found the videotape that was stolen the night of the killings, which is probably a very remote possibility. Rick also said that if that did happen, he would be happy to come back to the area to prosecute and possibly seek the death penalty. But who is that second man and could there have been a third? Remember that the witness, Virginia Johnson, said she saw two men in a black car, but after she left Kk's she picked up her boyfriend at work and then they drove back by KK Corner at around twelve thirty am. And at that point she said they saw another vehicle, a red pickup truck next to the black car, and that the red truck had its passenger door open. Whose red pickup truck was that? Could they have been involved in the killings as well? Respectfully, I'm not sure that I agreed with the DA and with the police. I think there is still a lot of potential clues out there. We just got back a ton of information for Foya's and from sources, and I'm hoping that next week we will have some of those questions answered. Another unanswered question that we had was the missing keys. Stacy's keys, the one that opened the employees' safe, were found inside the safe. The doors had to be locked to close the store. When Virginia Johnson came to the store, Stacey was in the process of closing up, and Virginia noticed that Stacy had a set of keys hanging from her waist. Lame Lebuff claims that when the other coworker arrived for work the next morning, she opened the door and saw Stacy's purse on the counter and saw that the money was missing. Stacy's keys that opened the door were found in the safe. So if the doors were locked, how did the killer lock the door when they left. Laura said she believes it may have been with Marty's keys, because she said his key ring was never found.

Lane has told us he does not believe that Thomas Cisco acted alone, but again, the series of events that took place on the night of the killings is difficult to figure out because Thomas Cisco has told so many different stories. Three years after the murders at kk's Corner in the fall of two thousand, Thomas Cisco's trial started. Nine days later. He was convicted of murder and sentenced to death by lethal injection. Thomas appealed. His attorney argued that Thomas had not knowingly and intelligently waived his right to have an attorney with no existing conflict, and later the Louisiana State Supreme Court ruled in his favor. They reversed the conviction and ordered a new trial. In the end, Thomas Cisco's attorneys got him a deal. He pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and was sentenced to ninety years in prison. Now how just that sentences really depends on who you ask. Some people believe that Thomas Cisco should stay behind bars for the rest of his life. Others say that, due to the fact they believe he did not act alone, that he should be freed. He became eligible for parole in twenty twenty three. He almost got out, but days before he was due to be released, his parole was rescinded due to an infraction he committed before appearing before the parole board. It apparently involved medication that he wasn't supposed to have. So he's still in Angola and according to the latest information I can find, he's next eligible for parole. In twenty twenty five, there was a show on ID called Killer in Question. They talked to former district attorney Rick Bryant, who prosecuted Tomas Cisco for the Kk's Corner murders. He told the local news station, quote, I know he didn't do it alone. There's no doubt in my mind. There were at least two people, and I base that on number one. To control three people in a store is difficult enough, but number two, an eyewitness, Virginia Johnson, saw two people. End quote. Rick Bryant said on the ID show he believes he knows who the second killer may be, saying, quote, this guy was from New Orleans, he was Cisco's, one of Cisco's best friends, and he is a perfect match to the composite drawing that was shown on TV. But Rick Bryant said police have spoken with that man and that the man claimed to have been with his girlfriend not in Lake Charles on the night of the murders. Rick Bryant said he would love to prosecute the second gunman, if there was one, but he says it's a tough case. They have no physical evidence and no other witnesses, so the only way that someone else could be tried or convicted is if someone confessed and if they could back up that confession, or if they found the videotape that was stolen the night of the killings, which is probably a very remote possibility. Rick also said that if that did happen, he would be happy to come back to the area to prosecute and possibly seek the death penalty. But who is that second man and could there have been a third? Remember that the witness, Virginia Johnson, said she saw two men in a black car, but after she left Kk's she picked up her boyfriend at work and then they drove back by KK Corner at around twelve thirty am. And at that point she said they saw another vehicle, a red pickup truck next to the black car, and that the red truck had its passenger door open. Whose red pickup truck was that? Could they have been involved in the killings as well? Respectfully, I'm not sure that I agreed with the DA and with the police. I think there is still a lot of potential clues out there. We just got back a ton of information for Foya's and from sources, and I'm hoping that next week we will have some of those questions answered. Another unanswered question that we had was the missing keys. Stacy's keys, the one that opened the employees' safe, were found inside the safe. The doors had to be locked to close the store. When Virginia Johnson came to the store, Stacey was in the process of closing up, and Virginia noticed that Stacy had a set of keys hanging from her waist. Lame Lebuff claims that when the other coworker arrived for work the next morning, she opened the door and saw Stacy's purse on the counter and saw that the money was missing. Stacy's keys that opened the door were found in the safe. So if the doors were locked, how did the killer lock the door when they left. Laura said she believes it may have been with Marty's keys, because she said his key ring was never found.

He drove a green Ford Bronco. It had been my mom's car and she had given it to him, and I'm assuming the store keys would have been on the same key ring. But they could not find his car keys at all. And I don't know anything specifically about store keys, but like I said, I know that his car keys were never found.

He drove a green Ford Bronco. It had been my mom's car and she had given it to him, and I'm assuming the store keys would have been on the same key ring. But they could not find his car keys at all. And I don't know anything specifically about store keys, but like I said, I know that his car keys were never found.

Laura said that the accusations the sheriff made about family members coming after his son just weren't true. She said they were as shocked as anyone else when people in town started saying they recognized that composit drawing.

Laura said that the accusations the sheriff made about family members coming after his son just weren't true. She said they were as shocked as anyone else when people in town started saying they recognized that composit drawing.

I think they had hypnotized one of the people that had been in the.

I think they had hypnotized one of the people that had been in the.

Store and they had someone draw a picture of the person that they saw in the store. And then it came out on KPLC this drawing. And we didn't even know Richard McKelvin. I think my brother is close to his age and may had seen him out at the bar and maybe knew who he was or something like that, but very very very casual acquaintance, not anything more than that. And it came out that we were making accusations against him, and if anybody said anything about him, you know, that these families were coming after Wayne mckelvin's son, and.

Store and they had someone draw a picture of the person that they saw in the store. And then it came out on KPLC this drawing. And we didn't even know Richard McKelvin. I think my brother is close to his age and may had seen him out at the bar and maybe knew who he was or something like that, but very very very casual acquaintance, not anything more than that. And it came out that we were making accusations against him, and if anybody said anything about him, you know, that these families were coming after Wayne mckelvin's son, and.

It's like, no, we're not. We're not even the ones that had the artists make that drawing. And I mean, you know, everybody in the town saw the drawing in and started naming his name. I never would have known who they were talking about, you know, And I don't even know that my brother would have. But a lot a lot of people came forward and said that, and it wasn't us. As a matter of fact, when my son was he was two years old and he was going to a daycare and the daycare owner pulled me aside and said, Richard mckelvin's son is in the class, goes to this daycare too. Is there going to be any trouble? And I'm like, I wouldn't know him from Adam and I don't even know him. No, there's not going to be any trouble for me, That's what I'm saying. It's like, we weren't targeting him. That's not our motivation or our intention. We just you know, our anger was never directed at him. It was just the rest of the town was saying it was him.

It's like, no, we're not. We're not even the ones that had the artists make that drawing. And I mean, you know, everybody in the town saw the drawing in and started naming his name. I never would have known who they were talking about, you know, And I don't even know that my brother would have. But a lot a lot of people came forward and said that, and it wasn't us. As a matter of fact, when my son was he was two years old and he was going to a daycare and the daycare owner pulled me aside and said, Richard mckelvin's son is in the class, goes to this daycare too. Is there going to be any trouble? And I'm like, I wouldn't know him from Adam and I don't even know him. No, there's not going to be any trouble for me, That's what I'm saying. It's like, we weren't targeting him. That's not our motivation or our intention. We just you know, our anger was never directed at him. It was just the rest of the town was saying it was him.

In twenty eighteen, Lara's brother, Lane Lebuff was brutally attacked in the parking lot of a local Louisiana casino. Lane said that he believes that law enforcement knows who the perpetrators are, and he says there is video of the attack, but he says no one has ever been arrested or charged. Lane wonders if the attack was somehow connected to the kk's Corner killings. On social media. Over the years, he has traded insults with a lot of people, including Richard Mcalvin. He's even posted screenshots of what he claims are Richard making threats to beat him up. Laura said that she's torn. She would love to see justice for her brother, but at the same time, even after almost thirty years, she says she's still afraid for her family's safety and in Southern Louisiana. She says her fear is that when it comes to the good old Boys network, but some things never change. And while she appreciates investigative journalists who've taken an interest in the story and appreciates people coming on social media to help, she says that some of the comments make her sad because they make it more about solving a murder mystery than remembering that these are actual victims whose families and lives will never be the same after.

In twenty eighteen, Lara's brother, Lane Lebuff was brutally attacked in the parking lot of a local Louisiana casino. Lane said that he believes that law enforcement knows who the perpetrators are, and he says there is video of the attack, but he says no one has ever been arrested or charged. Lane wonders if the attack was somehow connected to the kk's Corner killings. On social media. Over the years, he has traded insults with a lot of people, including Richard Mcalvin. He's even posted screenshots of what he claims are Richard making threats to beat him up. Laura said that she's torn. She would love to see justice for her brother, but at the same time, even after almost thirty years, she says she's still afraid for her family's safety and in Southern Louisiana. She says her fear is that when it comes to the good old Boys network, but some things never change. And while she appreciates investigative journalists who've taken an interest in the story and appreciates people coming on social media to help, she says that some of the comments make her sad because they make it more about solving a murder mystery than remembering that these are actual victims whose families and lives will never be the same after.

All this time, I really don't see it being solved. If somebody was going to come forward, they would have come forward by name. And the people that do know things, like you say, they're going to hide under the rocks. They're not going to say anything. A lot of people on that Facebook page. They're detached from it, and understandably so, but they treat it like it's some sort of a murder mystery who done it game, sort of make things up to fill in their gaps the way they want it to be. And they started accusing the owner of the store of dealing drugs from the store and being involved in that kind of stuff, and that was so untrue. It just kind of gets a little bit upsetting when you read these kinds of things over and over. People on Facebook can be completely ridiculous, Like you live your whole life not expecting something bad to happen, and then when something like this happens, you wait for the next bad thing. Your naivety is gone.

All this time, I really don't see it being solved. If somebody was going to come forward, they would have come forward by name. And the people that do know things, like you say, they're going to hide under the rocks. They're not going to say anything. A lot of people on that Facebook page. They're detached from it, and understandably so, but they treat it like it's some sort of a murder mystery who done it game, sort of make things up to fill in their gaps the way they want it to be. And they started accusing the owner of the store of dealing drugs from the store and being involved in that kind of stuff, and that was so untrue. It just kind of gets a little bit upsetting when you read these kinds of things over and over. People on Facebook can be completely ridiculous, Like you live your whole life not expecting something bad to happen, and then when something like this happens, you wait for the next bad thing. Your naivety is gone.

Next week, in our next episode on kk's Corner, we're going to answer some questions about Kevin Abel's suicide. We have details that have never been made public about the witness who was there, the drug dealers who are allegedly driving his truck, and the Calcushoe Parish police officer who picked up his truck from an alleged drug dealer. We're also going to talk to Stacy's friend, who was a former reserve deputy at the Sheriff's department about what Stacy said about the threat she was getting in the weeks before her murder. And we're going to try to figure out what happened to Kevin Abel's truck. Could it have been the red truck that was parked at kk's corner that night. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance in James Wheaton for legal review. Julia Chris Goau mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonpod. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

Next week, in our next episode on kk's Corner, we're going to answer some questions about Kevin Abel's suicide. We have details that have never been made public about the witness who was there, the drug dealers who are allegedly driving his truck, and the Calcushoe Parish police officer who picked up his truck from an alleged drug dealer. We're also going to talk to Stacy's friend, who was a former reserve deputy at the Sheriff's department about what Stacy said about the threat she was getting in the weeks before her murder. And we're going to try to figure out what happened to Kevin Abel's truck. Could it have been the red truck that was parked at kk's corner that night. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance in James Wheaton for legal review. Julia Chris Goau mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonpod. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

School of Humans,

School of Humans,