There was drama and controversy in the House today, after Greens co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick doubled down and refused to apologise for saying MPs with spines would act on Gaza.

Swarbrick has since been booted from Parliament for not apologising.

Former Speaker Sir David Carter says he should have asked Prime Minister John Key to withdraw - when he told the Opposition to 'get some guts' in 2015.

"In hindsight, when you get a chance to review the tape and hear it again - yes, I would have asked him to withdraw and apologise. I would have settled the House down if I'd done that."

LISTEN ABOVE

There was drama and controversy in the House today, after Greens co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick doubled down and refused to apologise for saying MPs with spines would act on Gaza.
Swarbrick has since been booted from Parliament for not apologising.
Former Speaker Sir David Carter says he should have asked Prime Minister John Key to withdraw - when he told the Opposition to 'get some guts' in 2015.
"In hindsight, when you get a chance to review the tape and hear it again - yes, I would have asked him to withdraw and apologise. I would have settled the House down if I'd done that."
LISTEN ABOVE

With a straight down the middle approach, Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive on Newstalk ZB delivers the very latest news and views to New Zealanders as they wrap up their day.

Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive

Sir David Carter: former House Speaker on Chlöe Swarbrick getting asked to leave the House over controversial comments

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/d630eb13-9bde-41ff-a9a7-b33800649f45/transcript

We’re never going to know for sure what tipped the Government into finally cutting the fees-free policy but I would like to take some credit for this show’s part in it.

We have harped on about the need to get rid of that policy for so long that it actually started to get boring, even for me.

But as with everything: persevere and you will succeed. And finally, the policy is gone. We had it confirmed by Winston Peters on Friday.

Now, I’ve already had emails from people who are upset about this. I’ve heard students complaining and I’ve heard some parents complaining as well. And I understand - it is never fun to have free Government money taken away from you. It is because of this kind of angst that free Government money is so rarely clawed back once it’s started being handed out.

But this policy was a dog from the start. It cost perhaps $350 million a year - and $350 million a year is a lot of money. For that money, it didn’t do what it was supposed to do, which was to lift enrolments among poorer kids.

If it didn’t achieve that - if those kids were going to uni anyway and are still going - then all we were doing was wasting $350 million.

And to those worrying about students living in poverty or being unable to afford study, please remember: we taxpayers already subsidise about 70 percent of what it costs Kiwi kids to go to university. We already provide interest-free student loans.

It is already relatively cheap, by global standards, to go to university here.

You could argue that our system is already so generous that even making it more generous didn’t lift enrolments. It’s already generous enough.

Now, I am going to withhold judgment on Nicola and Winston and what the plan is from here because this Government does tend to save money only to spend it again.

They’re going to take some of that money and spend it on trades training. That might be a good idea - but then again, it might just be the same kind of slop as fees-free, only in a more worthy place. We’ll see.

But as for the cutting of Jacinda’s wasteful and pointless free year of study - RIP. And may we'll be more careful with our spending in the future.

LISTEN ABOVE

We’re never going to know for sure what tipped the Government into finally cutting the fees-free policy but I would like to take some credit for this show’s part in it.
We have harped on about the need to get rid of that policy for so long that it actually started to get boring, even for me.
But as with everything: persevere and you will succeed. And finally, the policy is gone. We had it confirmed by Winston Peters on Friday.
Now, I’ve already had emails from people who are upset about this. I’ve heard students complaining and I’ve heard some parents complaining as well. And I understand - it is never fun to have free Government money taken away from you. It is because of this kind of angst that free Government money is so rarely clawed back once it’s started being handed out.
But this policy was a dog from the start. It cost perhaps $350 million a year - and $350 million a year is a lot of money. For that money, it didn’t do what it was supposed to do, which was to lift enrolments among poorer kids.
If it didn’t achieve that - if those kids were going to uni anyway and are still going - then all we were doing was wasting $350 million.
And to those worrying about students living in poverty or being unable to afford study, please remember: we taxpayers already subsidise about 70 percent of what it costs Kiwi kids to go to university. We already provide interest-free student loans.
It is already relatively cheap, by global standards, to go to university here.
You could argue that our system is already so generous that even making it more generous didn’t lift enrolments. It’s already generous enough.
Now, I am going to withhold judgment on Nicola and Winston and what the plan is from here because this Government does tend to save money only to spend it again.
They’re going to take some of that money and spend it on trades training. That might be a good idea - but then again, it might just be the same kind of slop as fees-free, only in a more worthy place. We’ll see.
But as for the cutting of Jacinda’s wasteful and pointless free year of study - RIP. And may we'll be more careful with our spending in the future.
LISTEN ABOVE

Perspective with Heather du Plessis-Allan: I'd like to take some credit for the end of fees-free

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/98e26e9f-24c5-4986-a74a-b44700802315/transcript

Listen to the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast for Monday 11 May.

Get the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast every weekday evening on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen to the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast for Monday 11 May. 
Get the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast every weekday evening on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Full Show Podcast: 11 May 2026 

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/b8d35446-e8d2-4db6-8a1f-b4470076b2df/transcript

Finance Minister Nicola Willis has backed the decision to scrap the fees-free scheme for good.

Last week, Winston Peters revealed to Newstalk ZB on Friday the Government's doing away with the free final year of tertiary education.

Nicola Willis says it's important for the Government to invest in things that Kiwis really need and want - not a failed policy that didn't achieve any of the goals it aimed to accomplish.

"New Zealand has been in deficit since 2019, we're carrying a heck of a lot of debt, we've got some real priorities for our budget in terms of the health system, the education we want to give our young kids, the defence system we want to build up, the infrastructure we want to build - all of those things have a better call on money." 

LISTEN ABOVE

Finance Minister Nicola Willis has backed the decision to scrap the fees-free scheme for good.
Last week, Winston Peters revealed to Newstalk ZB on Friday the Government's doing away with the free final year of tertiary education.
Nicola Willis says it's important for the Government to invest in things that Kiwis really need and want - not a failed policy that didn't achieve any of the goals it aimed to accomplish.
"New Zealand has been in deficit since 2019, we're carrying a heck of a lot of debt, we've got some real priorities for our budget in terms of the health system, the education we want to give our young kids, the defence system we want to build up, the infrastructure we want to build - all of those things have a better call on money."&nbsp;
LISTEN ABOVE

Nicola Willis: Finance Minister on the end of fees-free study

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/2845105a-6964-4959-84cc-b44700798a6e/transcript

Sir David Carter: former House Speaker on Chlöe Swarbrick getting asked to leave the House over controversial comments

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