US President Donald Trump's push for Arab nations to take in Palestinians to 'clean out' Gaza could be a genuine suggestion.
He's said Egypt and Jordan should take in Gazans - with the Strip extensively damaged and people dying.
Greg Barton, a noted professor of global Islamic politics, says Trump is 'flying a kite' to see the response, and what he can away with.
"Donald Trump will typically say things that are contradictory - and allow himself plausible deniability, so he can walk his way back from this one, but he's clearly got an interest in seeing if it's got traction."
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Okay. Donald Trump has described Gaza as a demolition site and suggested to clean the whole thing, clean out the whole thing exact words, either temporarily or for the long term to allow rebuild. He wants Egypt and Jordan to take in Palestinian some Gaza. It's not the first time he's floated this idea. Last week he said this. You know, Gaza is interesting. It's a phenomenal location on the sea, best weather, you know, everything's good. It's like some beautiful things could be done with it. It is a beautiful place. It used to be a beautiful place, and then it wasn't. Greg Barton is Deacon University's professor of Global Islamic Politics in Australia, joins us.
Now, good a, Greg, goodbye, Good to be with you.
Second time in a week he's talked about this idea. How serious do you think? It is?
Pretty serious. I think he's flying a kite to see what sort of response he gets to what he can get away with. So Donald Trump typically will will say things that you know, a contradictory and allow himself plausible deniability. So he could walk his way back from this one. But clearly he's got an interest to see whether it's got traction. What he's expressing has been expressed by the fire right elements of the current Israeli government, And to be fair, even Joe Biden's administration did speak to Jordan and Egypt about whether they could take some of the people of Gaza. Different motivations, but I mean the idea has been out there. People in Gaza very worried about this. They worry that they're being pushed off their land. Trump may not go through with this, but he's giving it a try to see what it might lie.
Well, the United States was traditionally or recently anyway a proponent of the two states solution. But in suggesting this where you can't have a two states solution when you've moved everybody into Egypt, do you think he's going back on that? Things are changing.
Yeah. Look, I think if Donald Trump has his way, and bear in mind, he's not deeply ideological, he's transactional, and he'll pick his sights. And you know, he liked nothing but have been being a winner. He's not going to die in a ditch over this. But in Donald trum Trump's own mind, there's no deep commitment to a two state solution or a peace process, or indeed sort of broad conceptions of justice. He's he's got a very different view than what America has held traditionally, but his view may not hold well.
Look, here's the thing about being transactional and just going for quick wins and stuff. Because some people were surprised when Donald Trump forced benj Vnetnyaho to sign the cease fire deal with Hamas. Could it be that he was going for this idea which was supported by the far rights in Israel? And could that have had anything to do with it?
Certainly possible. I think one of the factors that play with both of us and whose government is the unpredictability of Donald Trump. From their perspective, they just don't know what he might do. They know he's given to blossom bluster. He himself famously in that book that his name is on the Art of the Deal, said that, you know, part of the making is to put outrageous claims upfront and see what he can get away with test people. So perhaps that's what he's doing, but it does mean that for anyone dealing with him, they can't be certain. So I think Amass was genuinely anxious that things make it worse under Donald Trump. I think Metnya, who also thought better to take a bird in the hand than risk uncertainty. It's almost inevitable that there's been the floating of this idea and other sort of ideas that would please far right elements of the cabinet in Israel. It doesn't mean that Trump is going to commit himself to going through with it, but this is certainly inching closer to being something they're going to try and put on. It's worth nerving too that his Donald Trump's, the son in law shared Kushna, has been part of real estate consortium's looking at having Jewish settlements in Gaza and sort of great real estate deals on the beach front.
But do you think he realizes how deeply this resonates with Arab nations, Because if you go back to nineteen forty eight, the movement of Palestinians out of what they thought was their homeland was as kind of like what started this whole thing off.
I don't think he understands that history or cares about it. What he does care about, though, is his relationship with Muhammad Bin some One, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia MBSNBS, Yes, that's right and NBS. Trump recently approached NBS and said, look, you know, maybe we should pick it up the deal we had talked about last time when I was president, and NBS came back and said, sure, we'll increase it. I think he spoke of a trillion dollars. NBS also is pretty good at negotiating, perhaps better than Donald Trump. But there's a transactual interest on both sides there. And of course one of the hallmark politicians of the previous Trump government was this idea of Abraham Accord's and peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which makes a lot of people angry because it covers over what we're just discussing, that history of occupation, but it also potentially opens the way forward, opens the way forward for Saudi and other Arab support for regu and Regaza Strip with a new Palestinian administration. So the devil was very much the details. It could be something that is a force for good in a very difficult situation, or it could be something that just further adds to injustice.
Thank you so much. Greg Barton is the professor of Global Islamic politics at the Deacon University, which is in Australia.
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