Tim Hardaway was a game-changing playmaker with the Golden State Warriors and the Miami Heat. Tim Hardaway, Jr. wanted to follow in his Hall of Fame footsteps and has made a name for himself in the NBA as a lethal outside shooter.
Host Jon Frankel talks with the Hardaways about how the game of basketball brings them together, how they’ve both endured and overcome serious injuries, and why Tim Hardaway Jr. didn’t embrace his dad’s signature crossover move.
In the game of life, Maintaining a healthy lifestyle and nurturing meaningful connections with family can be among the most formidable challenges we face.
When I was at the game of Miami Heat and they had those big rivals series with the Knicks, That's when I really understood what my dad was about.
Yet, for many professional athletes, fostering both has proven to be a triumphant recipe for success.
I never realized that he was going to play NBA basketball until he got to Michigan.
Hi.
I'm John Frankel. For the past two decades, I've traveled the globe covering some of the most impactful human interest stories and sports. On this show, I'm sitting down with some of the biggest families in the game, the legends, current superstars, and the up and coming playmakers to understand what's really making them tick. What can pro athlete families teach a new generation about the importance of caring for your health and finding success in the face of adversity. Together, we'll hear stories of their remarkable comebacks, setbacks, and the crucial role their family and self care played in their paths to championship glory. This is part of the game. Imagine growing up having an NBA superstar as a father.
I would just plan a game and have a fun with Chris and Mitch and the Golden State Warriors and with the Warriors fan. But I never knew that I would be that type of player in the Hall of Fame and that young in my career.
Now, imagine having to follow that on the hard court and trying to carve out your own legacy. It's what Tim Hardaway Junior faced as he began his own journey to the NBA.
I'm not gonna say a lie. I'm like, oh no, there's no pressure.
Like I was good.
Like, No, it was. It was a ton of pressure for sure.
The road to greatness has not always been a smooth ride. When faced with adversity, you always knew he had one person he could talk to.
It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when a father needs to be a father. And that's when I needed that love, that support, that type of energy, that type of vibe from him.
At that point in time.
A father and son bonded by a love of basketball and each other. First of all, thank you both for joining us. Yes, sir, How often do you both think about the fact you're obviously not the first, you won't be the last. There's lots of talk of Lebron James wanting to play with his son. How often do you think about the fact that you both made it to the NBA.
I think about it, you know, every time I watch him play. I see the joy in him out there. I have the joy on my face and my wife be like, why you smelling? Let me like, because I'm enjoying watch my son play, and you're bothering me. So let me watch my son play, you know. Let me let me watch him, Let me get into the game, let me get into the moment, you know. And I think that that's what all ex athletes are looking at right now when they when they see their their sons playing a game that they love to play and they having fun playing it. When we watch them, we have a smile on our face, We look like the joker from ear to ear, and we feel joyful in our hearts that they are doing something that we used to do when and love doing. I take it one step further, Lebron, you know, if he gets to play with his son, oh man that I think that would be the ultimate ultimate thing that you could ever do in basketball. If you could play with your son in the NBA.
If you play with your son, would you make him better?
Of course, because I go in him all the time.
Well, he'd at least be the leading scorer all the time.
Yes, that's how we used to do back and when I was in high school, we had like a lot of open runs, open gyms. My dad will always pick me on the team to be on his team. It was like Batman Robman. Every time down, He's just feeding me the rock every single time, throwing love passes, on time, on target passes, passed that pitch in the back of the head if you're not paying attention.
Being able to.
Feed off of his energy and his guard skills that he's shown in his Hall of Fame career, that made me a better player.
And it all started after my sophomore year in high school.
At this point, Dad, are you still playing or you're retired?
Retired?
You're retired?
Done?
So, Tim Junior, you were what ten or eleven by the time your dad retires, right, So, do you remember watching him play?
I really locked in and it really clicked once he started playing for the Heat. When I was young and he was with the Going State Warriors, I didn't even know what was going on. But when I was at the game of the Miami Heat and they had those big rivals series with the Knicks, that's when I really knew, like and understood what my dad was about and who he was as a ballplayer. You could tell when we're walking around the city of Miami, or we're going to dinner, going to the fair expo out here or whatever, it could be anything, and he's stopping every two three minutes to take pictures or sign autographs. That's when I start to realize, like around six seven, that he was that dude.
Did you like that when you walked around town because he was your dad and this was your time with your dad.
I liked it, but it got to a point where we were like, Dad, come on, let's go right, let's get on. But now that I'm in the same situation as he was, I understand now why he had to do that, why he had to stop taking those pictures, why he had to put someone a smile on someone else's face.
You know, for that day. You know.
So branding, branding, marketing.
Yeah.
I mean it's not every day that you get to like walk around and then there's an NBA player Ryan in front of you, especially a Hall of Fame point guard playing for the Miami Heat at the time where it was like nineties basketball.
I want to go back to it for a second, when you played together, starting when you were in tenth or eleventh grade, and tim you're retired, you had watched your dad play. You were you were beginning to understand and appreciate what he did. But did you fully appreciate his skills before you had a chance to play on the same team with him and get those passes and go up for the oops.
Yeah, I appreciate it a lot.
When you're sitting down in the stands and watching him play and watching how the fans react to his game. That alone gives you so much appreciation for what he's done, you know, for the game of basketball. When I had that finally opportunity to go out there and play with him in the open runs or in the summer leagues that we had when I came back from college, the joy and the appreciation and the talking trash, you know, ganging up on other people and talking trash to other people and having each other's backs out there like that was my way of like getting my energy, having my joy, and like getting out there and competing at a high level. And that gave me confidence knowing that if I'm playing with a future Hall of Famer and I'm playing against guys that are in the league, they're in an off season and their training to get themselves back, and I'm going at them and I'm not scared.
I knew I was able to fulfill my dream.
Dad, when did you notice and realize that he was going to have the skills?
Great question.
You may not have known whether he was going to have the work ethic, the desire. When did you recognize that he had the skills to be really good? Well, he always had the work ethic.
When we changed his shot, he was upset and I said, you know, you had to change your shot because he was shooting it.
That was in middle school, right, That was the push shot before you're strong enough from the waist and you go up. Okay.
I said, hey, you gotta change your shot now because you're gonna start growing.
Why did you think he was going to grow? When you were what.
Five eleven three quarters and I'm looking at him. I'm like, I'm looking at his mom like I don't see it. But I'm going to go with some experts that knew about growth spurts and and knew about athletes and how when they starting to grow and how they're going to grow. So we changed his shot and he went out there, he was practicing his shot, and I said, look, you had to do, you know, one hundred push ups a day, one hundred sit.
Ups a day. And that was what worth etic came from.
Did you do the hundred push ups and sit ups with him?
No, not that.
My cousins, his cousin, my cousins when they came down, they were doing it with me too.
Yeah.
Right, No, I didn't do it much.
That was I was done with that. So I passed it on to him that my grammar school coach passed on to me. But you know, his work ethic always been there. He always wanted to get better. He always wanted to work on his game. He always wanted to shoot the shot, you know, and just work on and get better. But you know, when we started playing and he started growing, I never realized, you know, that he was going to play NBA basketball you didn't. I did not know until he got to Michigan.
Even in high school, which you were not highly recruited out of high school. But knowing the game the way you did, you did not think that he was an NBA prospect at that time.
Not at that time. And I wasn't even thinking about that. I was just thinking about him going to school and getting to the right coach and developing his game and then maybe maybe.
We have a shot at it.
Did you want him to have a shot at it? Of course you did. I want him to because I knew he wanted to have a shot at it.
The reason I asked that is that, listen, it's not unusual for kids to want to follow their parents into any career. You know, of course being a professional athlete. But oftentimes parents said, don't follow me into medicine, don't follow me into being a lawyer, don't follow But you wanted him to be an NBA.
Player, Well, no, no, I wanted him to follow his dream, and I wanted him to be able to fulfill his dream as best as possible in his own way. And he did do it in his own way when he was playing with us, And I'm giving him the ball, he's listening, he's understanding the game. And he went out there and got better and better and better. So when he got to Michigan, it was easy. It wasn't hard for him to become NBA basketball player. I just put the seed in him, and I just helped him to understand what he needs to work on and how he needs to work at it, and understand that it takes hard work to be in the NBA.
And he put in that hallwork every day.
With that hardaway name on the back of your jersey. Not only was there pressure, did you feel that that was a target for you? Did other one thousand people like I'm gonna shut this kid down because of who his dad is.
Oh yeah.
It was a lot of trash talking, of a lot of fights. It was a lot of arguing. You know, you have to have thick skin, especially going into environments around Miami, playing in these different schools and the kids knowing who you are just because of the name on your back.
I'm not gonna say her lie. I'm like, oh no, there's no pressure.
I was good, like no, it was a ton of pressure until he sat me down and talked to me and gave me the conference and told me you were doing everything you possibly could out there to go out there and compete. NAD lifted so much weight off my shoulders that I was good to go.
When we return. How Tim Hardaway's senior overcame the devastating knee injury that threatened his career, and how load management and modern medical d advances if changed the NBA.
Back in our day when we play, if you was hurt, you had to be on ir for five games, there was no coming back and to after those five games up.
Part of the game. We'll be right back and now back to heart of the game. Tim Hardaway Senior wasted no time making his presence known in the NBA. He made the All Star team three consecutive years with the Warriors, and only the legendary Oscar Robertson reached five thousand points and twenty five hundred assists faster than Hardaway. But then disaster struck. In nineteen ninety three, Hardaway toward the ACL in his left knee, costing him an entire season in his prime. Keep in mind that back in the early nineties, this type of injury was still potentially career threatening, but never under us to make the competitiveness of an elite athlete. Tim, Were you concerned when you were coming back about was your game going to be at the same level? Were you going to have the same quickness which you would relyed on. Were those areas that you thought about consciously in the moment, or did you say, hey, i'm young, I'm a stud, it's only an issue. No.
I never said I'm young, I'm a stud. I'm gonna come back. What got me back is the competitiveness of Chicago. I went back and when the doctor and the trainer and everybody said you one hundred percent, you go through basketball activities. I went back to Golden State, went through a bunch of drills, played three on three and all this type of stuff. And I went home and started playing five on five, and in a pro am, a guy picked me up that never picked me up before full court. He looked me right in my eye and said, you do not have it anymore. I could guard you. He called you out right in front of everybody. And from that point on, in that game, when I played the game, he flipped the sw flip he flipped.
He flipp flipped the switch. He flipped the switch.
When he told me that competitiveness came into my body and I just forgot about my knee in my whole career, from high school to college and when I was in NBA. He never picked me up full court after the game. He said, Wow, I didn't think you had it anymore. I thought you was done. You're gonna come back better than ever. But I always say thank you to him.
Maybe he did it on purpose, maybe he knew what you needed, but hey, it worked, It worked for sure. Harnaway Junior endured his own injuries, such as a broken foot in twenty twenty two. It happened during a routine drive to the basket. Despite fracturing the fifth meta tarsal foot, he managed to shoot man make his free throws before being helped back to the locker room. Tim Junior, you have had your share of injuries. You had the really major foot injury, right, Yeah. What was that like for you to fight through that again, both emotionally and physically, to get yourself back to where you wanted to be.
I think, for the most part, me having surgery a couple of years before that with my fractured tibia. After leaving New York for the second time, I had got surgery after that. I think this surgery wasn't as bad. I knew I broke it, I knew I fractured my foot, so I wanted to get the surgery done as quickly as possible again to rehab as quickly as possible. The mental I was fine, you know, for the most part, because like I said, I had a previous injury where I had to rehab and stuff like that, so I kind of understood the process. But it hurt more when I knew my team was out there playing without me and they made this run, and I really wanted to be a part of it, and me knowing and being a competitor like I knew I could have helped him out so much in the Webster Conference finals when we went, so I really wanted to help and really wanted to be there for them. So that I think that was just the only difference were you able to lean on your dad?
Was was he a confident and able to tell you, look, son, this is part of the game, and you're going to work through it, both physically and emotionally, and you're going to have to get back. Yeah.
For the most part.
Definitely was the first person to call, you have him right in your pocket.
What other basketball player, what.
Other professional athletes say that definitely leaned on him for the whole recovery process. Just talk to him about the game of basketball. Talk to him about what I see, what he sees, what I could probably say to the coaching staff, or you know, any type of way for me to be helpful for my team while sitting out.
You know, we talk about the physical challenges of playing in this game and putting in your years, but there are lots of mental parts of the game that maybe the fan isn't aware of. I'm talking about the idea of being traded and having to move, which both of you have gone through. Can you each talk about that and what that brings and what it entails. When you're happy and you're settled in Golden State and then you get moved to Miami, or you're in New York and you get moved to Atlanta in Tim Junior's case, or for a few days you even get sent down to the G League and then you got to come back. What does that do to you and your overall mental health, which is now so much a part of the game and is recognized by people.
Go ahead, tam, I'm not gonna lie you. That messed me up tremendously. It's like you think you know, but you really don't know. It was reality check, I would say, for sure, especially getting up and moving from New York to Atlanta and then not playing and then having to get sit down to the G League and mentally you're like, damn, you know.
I thought I was doing something right.
It's like this organization has a different say and a different way of doing.
It was hard having.
To go to the G League and then come back knowing that you're not going to play, not a single minute. Even if you're up by twenty thirty and you're dressed out, You're not playing just because they have something in line for you to be the player they want you to become. It just goes back to like I said, you think you know, but you don't.
I imagine that there's a lot of self doubt that begins to creep in.
Oh yeah, it was a lot of that.
It was a lot of sad, sad moments where I'm crying on the phone to him, to my mom, to my agent, second guessing myself what I need to do. But then it's just started to click once I went down to the G League and I started playing in Austin with the San Antonio Spurs G League team, and it was good because coach Budd was under Coach Popovich and similar style of play offensively and defensively, So it was the right situation for me to go out there and learn how Coach Bud wanted me to play and be the head guy down there and get my rhythm and get my flow and just go out there and play and have fun.
Dad, when Tim acknowledges that he was crying and calling you up, talking to you and mom, are you Dad in that moment?
No, that's Dad. I can answer that for you. That's Dad.
That's Dad. Yeah, that's Dad.
Like I'm Dad.
That's Dad for real.
That's not get tough. This is part of the game. It's a business.
No, No, that's dad.
It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when.
A father needs to be a father.
And that's when I needed that that love of that support, that type of energy, that type of vibe from him. At that point in time, already had the other stuff from my best friends, my boys, and my agent already had those guys, tell me the man up, You're gonna be all right, do your thing. But father, he was a father that point in time, and I respected that and I needed that.
So we're at twenty years since you've been out of the game. Yes, wow to age both of us, Yes wow. In general, how's your health? My health is good, health is real good.
Yeah.
You know, I got some bad knees, you know, but not mean that sometimes that come with the territory. I used to play on concrete all the time growing up in growing up Chicago. That's all we had was playing outside, especially during the summertime. It was basketball outside. There was no indoor basketball where you go as young people, so we played outside and we made the most of it. Most of the guys that played Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill in my era, the Byron Irve and that came out of Chicago.
Yeah I need a hurt.
Fourteen years you had the one major aco injury after the ninety two to ninety three season. How's that need? Do you have arthritis? Yeah?
Well I got authritis everywhere my knees, my ankles, you know, my wrist. But you know, like I'm telling you off air. You know, I take this doctor. When I first came to the NBA in San Francisco, I call him Doc Hollywood. He introduced me to go close to me and Condroit. It helped me out for my fourteen year career, and without that I would not have played fourteen years.
Hardaway Senior is Tim Junior's biggest fan and rebels and watching his son play ball. But these are two elite athletes from two very different errors of the NBA. The old school tape it up and play mentality from Hardaway Senior's day no longer. Modern day players are often benched to rest their bodies in the hopes of preventing long term injuries and for other reasons. The Dallas Mavericks were fined seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the league for sitting most of their key players, including Hardaway Junior, for a game late in the season. The league accused the Mavericks of conduct detrimental to the league by benching their best players in order to improve their chances of keeping their first round pick in the twenty twenty three draft. Regardless of the reasons, load management, as it's called is very much a part of today's NBA. It is not a concept that Tim Hardaway Senior knew anything about in his day.
I'll tell you this, Back in our day when we play, if you was hurt use out for five games, you had to be on ir for five games. There was no coming back and to after those five games up. So if you was in a stretch with five games was eight days, you was sitting down for eight days. You couldn't travel with the team. You couldn't go nowhere, even though you was ready after the third game, you had to sit down and wait till after the fifth game, and then if they were still on the road, you go and travel with them. It was different in our day then. A lot of stuff with a lot of rules was different.
Tim Junior, how do you feel You've been part of the Dallas Mavericks and the team paid a price for this. At one point you were one of the players that sat out, not because your choice management said you're gonna sit down. What's your feeling on all this and load management today?
Me personally, I mean I've always wanted to play. I mean I played through a lot of injuries. And he could tell you that firsthand. There's a lot of times where I'll be hurt and everybody knows I'm hurt. He knows I'm hurt, and I'll tell him like, no, I don't think I'm gonna go tonight.
But then I'm suited up, Brady to go.
The competitive spirit and that energy when you're walking in that tunnel and going into that locker room, your mindset just flips the switch. The drilling is kicking. I can get my coffee. I'm ready to go. I've always been the guy that wanted to play.
Harnaway Senior is now two decades into retirement after forays into coaching and TV work. He's enjoying his favorite pastime, watching his son play ball. Dad, you said that you enjoy watching him pay. You've got a smile. You have to tell your wife leave me alone. I'm in my moment here. Is it hard to watch Tim Junior? Do you get nervous for him if he goes to the foul line in a critical situation? Are you nervous? Do you find yourself yelling at the tv?
My mom does?
Yeah, his mom yells at a TV. I don't yell at a TV. I'm always sweating. I'm in a moment, my hands are sweating, and I feel like it's telepathy that I'm trying to help him. And you know with the basketball. I mean, one day my wife came down. She said, why you got a town? I said, I'm playing too, are you? But I'm into the game that when I'm watching him, I'm into the game.
You know.
My friends called me, Why you calling me? Yeah, I'm watching him play. Oh my bad. Yeah, he's on right you watching him?
So why I'm watching him? Leave me alone?
Are you yelling shoot the ball?
No question, I'm saying, how come he didn't shoot that?
Why not you shooting? But then you know, my.
Wife yolan that. She would be like, well, was that a good pass? I said, yeah, that was great pass. He passed to a guy up under and he made a layup. That was a great pass. And you know, so sometimes she'd be like she wanted him to shoot. I want him to shoot exactly. I said, no, he's a team ballplayer. He passed the ball when you open, that's what you're supposed to do. And she's like, okay, okay, but I want him to shoot more. I said, okay, And you just got to leave it alone.
A major reason why Hardaway Senior is in the Hall of Fame is because of that legendary crossover dribble. What's interesting about his signature move is that it began it's someone else's move. Correct me if I'm wrong, And you can tell people this story, But it wasn't an original idea of yours. Was it you were talking before we started doing this, that you used to sit in your dorm room at UTEP and you used to watch the Big East Games on ESPN?
Now what did you watch by Sarah Q Saint John's Georgetown?
And was there one guy in particular?
It was Pearl Washington.
He came down one time against Georgetown in a carry a dome and he shook this guy so hard that he was off the screen. And I was like wow, And you could feel the energy in the carry a dome. You could feel Pearl Washington just do his thing. But he was so low with the crossover he crossed him. All was so hard and the guy went to his right. He was off the screen and pe went down man laid it up. I was like, ooh, I said, I gotta go practice day. But I couldn't do it like pearls so I invitted my own stuff.
And Tim when you were coming up right and you're learning the game, you didn't know at the time you were going to be six or five. Right, did you practice the crossover? Did you see what your dad was doing and say, I'm gonna I'm gonna drill this into myself.
I'm gonna be completely honest with you. Now, I really love shooting the ball.
You said dribbling is for.
For the point guard. I really loved shooting right. That's what I love. I love to do. But I'm not gonna lie.
I've done it a couple of times in the game. I could revert back to MSG my junior year. We're playing Kansas State. I was coming up the right side. I did the move the crossover, and I pull up jumper and I pointed to him in the stands after I did it.
I remember, so it was I remember, yeah, yeah, it was cool.
So and you heard the oohs and ahs when I.
Did it right that right.
There was a special moment for me, especially doing it in the garden.
The Hardaways are close, not just like many fathers and sons are, but their bond is unique because they belong to an ultra exclusive fraternity the NBA. You have two daughters, Yes, obviously they are not in the NBA. They're not in the WNBA, Tim Junior. Everybody has a different relationship with their parent, every sibling. Do you feel sorry for your sisters in the sense that they don't have this bond that you have with your dad. They might have a different relationship and it might be just as good. But did this give you something special that you think they don't have.
I mean, I would say to a certain extent, yeah, I mean there's something that they don't have, and it's just what we both are professional as fleets, Like you can't teach that, you can't tell nobody.
I mean, like you have to work to get to that point.
It's an exclusive club.
Yes, yeah, yes, exclusive club man.
So it's like that's the bond that we share, and that's the barmb we're gonna share for the rest of our lives. Like he said, he does have that spider sense that when something's up, something is up. And I've gone to him multiple multiple times and even told him like, Yo, I need you right now. Can you come to Dallas or can you come to Atlanta? Can you come to New York stay with me for a week and chill and vibe, go grab dinner, smoke a couple of cigars and we chill out.
But he relaxed.
If he needs me, I'm first thing's smoking right there.
Now. He has to stop every two feet because people want your picture and your signature.
Right yeah, and they don't recognize me, So I just keep walking, keeking.
E've be looking at me.
Where you going? And I'm like, hey, they don't want me.
All right. I talked to you, Tam, Dad, love you. I know you too.
Next time. On Heart of the Game, gold medal winning legend, Alison Felix, the most decorated track and field athlete in US history, speaks about her fight for equality for female athletes and her transition from the track to becoming a business owner and mom.
I could find bright spots even when everything didn't go perfectly right. And that's the point of my career where I found more purpose and like trying to create some impact and it just became a little bit bigger than just a sport for me.
Heart of the Game is a production of Ruby's studio from iHeartMedia. Our show is hosted by me John Frankel. Our Executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post Production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikkiah Swinton. This show was edited Uy Sierra Spreen. Our writer and researcher is Mike Avilla. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.