As talks between Iran and world powers over the Islamic Republic's nuclear program continue, Israel is facing a difficult choice between bad and worse options. Should it accept a flawed deal in order to postpone a potential confrontation with Tehran? Or should it ring every alarm bell and try to stop the emerging deal, even if that means risking a regional escalation with thousands of missiles falling on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? 

On this week's episode, two of the top experts on the subject in Israel and Washington join the podcast for a heated exchange. Chuck Freilich, Israel's former deputy national security adviser, argues that a bad deal is still the best option and preferable to the current situation; Mark Dubowitz, CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, warns of a nightmare scenario that will strengthen both Iran and Vladimir Putin. 

Hosts Amir Tibon and Allison Kaplan Sommer ask them both about the prospect of an Israeli military strike against Iran, the impact of Trump's decision to destroy the previous nuclear deal in 2018, and whether Israel can trust the U.S. to use military force against Iran if needed. 

As talks between Iran and world powers over the Islamic Republic's nuclear program continue, Israel is facing a difficult choice between bad and worse options. Should it accept a flawed deal in order to postpone a potential confrontation with Tehran? Or should it ring every alarm bell and try to stop the emerging deal, even if that means risking a regional escalation with thousands of missiles falling on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? 
On this week's episode, two of the top experts on the subject in Israel and Washington join the podcast for a heated exchange. <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2022-08-30/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/ignore-bibis-bluster-israel-must-back-biden-on-iran-deal/00000182-ee7f-d783-a1be-ee7f2ae60000">Chuck Freilich</a>, Israel's former deputy national security adviser, argues that a bad deal is still the best option and preferable to the current situation; <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/2019-08-25/ty-article/.premium/iran-threatens-actions-by-security-institutions-against-d-c-think-tank/0000017f-e104-d568-ad7f-f36f2cca0000">Mark Dubowitz</a>, CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, warns of a nightmare scenario that will strengthen both Iran and Vladimir Putin. 
Hosts <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2022-07-17/ty-article/.highlight/in-israel-and-saudi-arabia-biden-ditched-the-legacies-of-two-presidents/00000182-0c6f-dee2-a786-ad7f4c310000">Amir Tibon</a> and <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-09-01/ty-article-magazine/.premium/from-south-tel-aviv-to-the-white-house-the-inside-story-of-haaretz-english-edition-at-25/00000182-f7ce-d8b2-abcb-f7efedd80000">Allison Kaplan Sommer</a> ask them both about the prospect of an Israeli military strike against Iran, the impact of Trump's decision to destroy the previous nuclear deal in 2018, and whether Israel can trust the U.S. to use military force against Iran if needed.

From Haaretz – Israel's oldest daily newspaper – a weekly podcast in English on Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World, hosted by Allison Kaplan Sommer.

From Haaretz – Israel's oldest daily newspaper – a weekly podcast in English on Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World, hosted by Allison Kaplan Sommer.

Your audio guide to Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World.

Haaretz Podcast

From Haaretz – Israel's oldest daily newspaper – the Haaretz weekly podcast in English on Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World, hosted by Allison Kaplan Sommer. 

From Haaretz – Israel's oldest daily newspaper – the Haaretz weekly podcast in English on Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World, hosted by Allison Kaplan Sommer.

Bad, worse or terrible? Inside Israel's dangerous dilemma on Iran

While Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pledges to keep up the fighting in Gaza, thousands of Israelis joined together at a conference on Monday to deliver a message to his government and the world: It's time to reach a deal, to stop the war, to make peace.

One of the many groups behind the peace conference was Women Wage Peace, whose co-founder Yael Admi told Haaretz reporter and special host of Haaretz Podcast Linda Dayan that within the peace camp, "We have to unite our voices, and that's what we did."

Discussing how the event came about, how to keep the momentum and the role of women in ending the conflict, Admi said, "We have one common target: To bring back the hostages, to make this terrible war end and to begin a process of diplomatic agreements to give a horizon of solutions for these awful days."

Dayan also interviewed activists Ibrahim Abu Ahmad and Josh Drill, bereaved mother Elana Kaminka and Standing Together co-director Alon-Lee Green, who said "After nine months of war... It's not enough to point out what we hate," adding, "we must put forward a vision of which kind of reality we are demanding."

As Israelis dream of a better future, in Europe, France is gearing up for a far-right government after the National Rally party emerged victorious in the first round of voting on Sunday. Haaretz correspondent and France 24 journalist Shirli Sitbon joined the podcast to explain where France and its Jewish citizens, who have become a political football, go from here.

The Jewish community "is very divided" on the results, she said. "At the same time, they feel that [it's] a strong party that will be tough on anyone who attacks Jews – that's what the National Rally promises, to defend Jews – but at the same time, a lot of Jews know very well what this party is made of, its history, its program, and they see it as extremely dangerous."

Still, some French Jews are willing to live with antisemitism in parliament "if it means, they believe, more security on a daily basis," she said.

Until now, she added, French Jews have never had official contact with the far right beyond condemning them. But suddenly, with a high likelihood of a far-right total majority, "some Jewish officials are already officially starting to talk to the National Rally, because they want to know what's going to happen, to see what's next."

But, "with Jews in a situation we've never known before," she said, "we don't really know what's going to happen tomorrow when they're in power."

While Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pledges to keep up the fighting in Gaza, thousands of Israelis joined together at a conference on Monday to deliver a message to his government and the world: It's time to reach a deal, to stop the war, to make peace.
One of the many groups behind <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-02/ty-article-magazine/.premium/its-time-to-give-peace-another-chance-thousands-gather-at-peace-conference-in-tel-aviv/00000190-73b5-d705-a7f5-fbff44db0000">the peace conference</a> was Women Wage Peace, whose co-founder Yael Admi told Haaretz reporter and special host of Haaretz Podcast Linda Dayan that within the peace camp, "We have to unite our voices, and that's what we did."
Discussing how the event came about, how to keep the momentum and the role of women in ending the conflict, Admi said, "We have one common target: To bring back the hostages, to make this terrible war end and to begin a process of diplomatic agreements to give a horizon of solutions for these awful days."
Dayan also interviewed activists <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-october-7-jolted-these-palestinian-israeli-peace-activists-into-action/0000018e-c7a7-dc93-adce-eff74d5a0000">Ibrahim Abu Ahmad</a> and Josh Drill, bereaved mother Elana Kaminka and <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/a-jewish-arab-partnership-is-building-a-young-new-peace-camp-in-israel/0000018c-daa9-d751-ad8d-ffadd6e00000">Standing Together</a> co-director Alon-Lee Green, who said "After nine months of war... It's not enough to point out what we hate," adding, "we must put forward a vision of which kind of reality we are demanding."
As Israelis dream of a better future, in Europe, France is gearing up for a far-right government after the National Rally party emerged victorious in the <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2024-06-30/ty-article/le-pens-far-right-party-leads-french-election-but-final-result-remains-uncertain/00000190-6a4f-d407-aff0-6f5ffc1a0000">first round of voting</a> on Sunday. Haaretz correspondent and France 24 journalist Shirli Sitbon joined the podcast to explain where France and its Jewish citizens, who have become a political football, go from here.
The Jewish community "is very divided" on the results, she said. "At the same time, they feel that [it's] a strong party that will be tough on anyone who attacks Jews – that's <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2024-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/will-french-jews-be-tempted-to-vote-for-frances-pro-israel-far-right/00000190-59d1-d63a-a7b2-5ddfbe8b0000">what the National Rally promises</a>, to defend Jews – but at the same time, a lot of Jews know very well what this party is made of, its history, its program, and they see it as extremely dangerous."
Still, some French Jews are willing to live with antisemitism in parliament "if it means, they believe, more security on a daily basis," she said.
Until now, she added, French Jews have never had official contact with the far right beyond condemning them. But suddenly, with a high likelihood of a far-right total majority, "some Jewish officials are already officially starting to talk to the National Rally, because they want to know what's going to happen, to see what's next."
But, "with Jews in a situation we've never known before," she said, "we don't really know what's going to happen tomorrow when they're in power."

'Some French Jews will accept far-right antisemitism in parliament because they believe Le Pen will protect them'

The key to avoiding full-scale war between Israel and Hezbollah is ending the conflict in southern Israel with Hamas, asserts Yoram Schweitzer, an expert on the Palestinian and Lebanese terror groups, on the Haaretz Podcast.

Schweitzer tells host Allison Kaplan Sommer that it is in Israel's power to "extricate itself" from what is already an ongoing two-front war. He blames the "illusion of a total victory" promoted by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Gaza for dragging on the war for months, what he calls a "misguided policy" that has also led to the war of attrition between Lebanon and Israel.

"I think it's in our hands to determine the future in the north" when it comes to preventing a slide into a larger war, Schweitzer says. "I think Israel has a great and significant role to play in calming down the situation."

A former strategist in negotiating for Israeli soldiers missing in action, Schweitzer believes that a deal must be made with Hamas exchanging hostages for Palestinian prisoners and ending the war. Afterward, Israel should work to "redesign our preparedness and our military readiness both in the south and in the north and prepare for a potential future war with Hezbollah, if needed" – unless a comprehensive regional political settlement can be reached.

Schweitzer says he believes internal political pressure in Lebanon and the potential devastation of a full-scale conflict means that Hezbollah is "under pressure" to accept a cease-fire that would avoid a conflagration in which Iran would be sure to join, thus sparking regional war.

While he believes Hezbollah and Iran are not interested in the all-out war that has panicked Israelis into buying generators and stocking up on bottled water, "it's in their interest to stick to their policy and to the war of attrition. I think that we need to understand that Israel is the one who determines the scale and the height of the flames of the war."

Acknowledging that Hezbollah's Iran-backed forces initiated the current conflict and is "not an innocent bystander," he notes that "Hezbollah is mostly reactive to Israeli maneuvers and attacks" and so Israel determines "where the trend in Lebanon is going."

Netanyahu's seemingly concerted efforts to alienate the Biden White House weakens Israel's position vis-a-vis both Hamas and Hezbollah, Schweitzer says, calling it a "very dangerous" and "stupid, foolish and irresponsible" policy.

"It is definitely a strategic mistake by our prime minister to attack what may be one of the most friendly administrations that Israel has enjoyed throughout the years. I don't want to use foul language, but it's definitely an unrealistic and irresponsible policy to attack Israel's most significant ally."

The key to avoiding full-scale war between Israel and Hezbollah is ending the conflict in southern Israel with Hamas, asserts Yoram Schweitzer, an expert on the Palestinian and Lebanese terror groups, on the Haaretz Podcast.
Schweitzer tells host Allison Kaplan Sommer that it is in Israel's power to "extricate itself" from what is already an ongoing two-front war. He blames the <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-08/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-refrain-of-fighting-hamas-until-total-victory-is-a-fantasy/0000018d-87eb-df76-a1fd-cffb8ba20000">"illusion of a total victory"</a> promoted by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Gaza for dragging on the war for months, what he calls a "misguided policy" that has also led to the war of attrition between Lebanon and Israel.
"I think it's in our hands to determine the future in the north" when it comes to preventing a slide into a larger war, Schweitzer says. "I think Israel has a great and significant role to play in calming down the situation."
A former strategist in negotiating for Israeli soldiers missing in action, Schweitzer believes that a <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-26/ty-article/.premium/hamas-officials-believe-u-s-will-pressure-israel-for-a-deal-only-after-idf-leaves-rafah/00000190-5361-de5e-abd0-fb7383390000">deal must be made</a> with Hamas exchanging hostages for Palestinian prisoners and ending the war. Afterward, Israel should work to "redesign our preparedness and our military readiness both in the south and in the north and prepare for a potential future war with Hezbollah, if needed" – unless a comprehensive regional political settlement can be reached.
Schweitzer says he believes <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2024-06-25/ty-article/.premium/fearing-israel-hezbollah-all-out-war-lebanese-politicians-pundits-and-people-speak-out/00000190-4f4a-d8cb-a19d-4f4b8e660000">internal political pressure</a> in Lebanon and the potential devastation of a full-scale conflict means that Hezbollah is "under pressure" to accept a cease-fire that would avoid a conflagration in which Iran would be sure to join, thus sparking regional war.
While he believes Hezbollah and Iran are not interested in the all-out war that has panicked Israelis into buying generators and stocking up on bottled water, "it's in their interest to stick to their policy and to the war of attrition. I think that we need to understand that Israel is the one who determines the scale and the height of the flames of the war."
Acknowledging that Hezbollah's Iran-backed forces initiated the current conflict and is "not an innocent bystander," he notes that "Hezbollah is mostly reactive to Israeli maneuvers and attacks" and so Israel determines "where the trend in Lebanon is going."
Netanyahu's seemingly <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-19/ty-article/.highlight/how-much-more-proof-does-biden-need-that-netanyahu-is-not-a-u-s-ally/00000190-30e8-d4fa-ad9d-ffe94ffa0000">concerted efforts</a> to alienate the Biden White House weakens Israel's position vis-a-vis both Hamas and Hezbollah, Schweitzer says, calling it a "very dangerous" and "stupid, foolish and irresponsible" policy.
"It is definitely a strategic mistake by our prime minister to attack what may be one of the most friendly administrations that Israel has enjoyed throughout the years. I don't want to use foul language, but it's definitely an unrealistic and irresponsible policy to attack Israel's most significant ally."

'A war in Lebanon won't be a duel with Hezbollah, Israel will face Iran's entire axis of resistance'

Israelis should expect Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's "poison machine" to be working overtime with the coalition government attacking its own military leaders on a daily basis, says Haaretz senior defense analyst Amos Harel on the Haaretz Podcast.

After a brief "honeymoon" period last week, following the IDF's daring rescue of four Israeli hostages held in Gaza, he said, "The hunt is on again. We'll see Netanyahu attacking them almost on a daily basis on the one hand, and also, what we call the poison machine run by his son and his supporters. We'll see more and more accusations pointed towards Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi and Ronen Bar, the head of the [Shin Bet security service]."

The goal of these attacks, Harel says, is to distract the Israeli public from Netanyahu's "dirty political trickery" and "the terrible, terrible price of the ongoing war."

"Netanyahu's interests are no longer in line with Israel's strategic interest," Harel asserts. What about the "Decisive victory" the prime minister keeps talking about? "It's absolute nonsense," He said, "and Netanyahu knows that better than anyone else."

Also on the podcast, French journalist Shirli Sitbon, a long time Haaretz contributor, reports on how French Jews, along with the rest of the country, were "shocked" by the snap elections declared by President Emmanuel Macron.

She said they are themselves caught between political blocs on the left and the right, and with the center weakened, now embrace extremist parties.

On the far left, she said, the bloc includes MPs "saying Israel is solely responsible" for the war in Gaza, who view Hamas as a legitimate resistance movement, support a full boycott and sanctioning of the country as well as arresting Israeli soldiers traveling in Europe and protesters carrying signs portraying French Jewish politicians as pigs. The alternative is a right-wing coalition led by Marine Le Pen's extreme xenophobic National Rally.

The polarization, she said, leaves many Jews frightened and confused, with indications that more than half might consider leaving the country if the far left or the far right win a decisive victory and the country "changes on a fundamental level."

Israelis should expect Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's "poison machine" to be working overtime with the coalition government attacking its own military leaders on a daily basis, says Haaretz senior defense analyst Amos Harel on the Haaretz Podcast.
After a brief "honeymoon" period last week, following the IDF's daring <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-08/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-forces-rescue-four-israeli-hostages-held-by-hamas/0000018f-f78b-d660-af9f-ffbfb2190000">rescue of four Israeli hostages</a> held in Gaza, he said, "The hunt is on again. We'll see Netanyahu attacking them almost on a daily basis on the one hand, and also, what we call the poison machine run by his son and his supporters. We'll see more and more accusations pointed towards Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi and Ronen Bar, the head of the [Shin Bet security service]."
The goal of these attacks, Harel says, is to distract the Israeli public from Netanyahu's "dirty <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-18/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-attacks-biden-inconceivable-to-hold-back-arms-shipments-to-israel/00000190-2c13-db38-adff-fcb344ab0000">political trickery</a>" and "the terrible, terrible price of the ongoing war."
"Netanyahu's interests are no longer in line with Israel's strategic interest," Harel asserts. What about the "Decisive victory" the prime minister keeps talking about? "It's absolute nonsense," He said, "and Netanyahu knows that better than anyone else."
Also on the podcast, French journalist Shirli Sitbon, a long time Haaretz contributor, reports on how French Jews, along with the rest of the country, were "shocked" by the <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2024-06-09/ty-article/frances-macron-calls-snap-elections-as-far-right-surges-in-european-elections/0000018f-fe85-de5e-a5ef-ff8742940000">snap elections</a> declared by President Emmanuel Macron.
She said they are themselves caught between political blocs on the left and the right, and with the center weakened, now embrace extremist parties.
On the far left, she said, the bloc includes MPs "saying Israel is solely responsible" for the war in Gaza, who view Hamas as a legitimate resistance movement, support a full boycott and sanctioning of the country as well as arresting Israeli soldiers traveling in Europe and protesters carrying signs portraying French Jewish politicians as pigs. The alternative is a right-wing coalition led by Marine Le Pen's extreme xenophobic National Rally.
The polarization, she said, leaves many Jews frightened and confused, with indications that more than half might consider leaving the country if the far left or the far right win a decisive victory and the country "changes on a fundamental level."

Bad, worse or terrible? Inside Israel's dangerous dilemma on Iran

In 1 playlist(s)

Haaretz Podcast

Social links

Follow podcast

Recent clips