Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and now a podcast created for parents raising black and brown children. I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I am talking about how parents can get smart and help their children get smart about drug use with neuroscientists. Doctor Yasmin Heard. Doctor Hurd, is the director of the Addiction Institute at Mount Sinai here in New York City, and she's also Mount Signia's Ward Coleman Chair of Translational Neuroscience. Her disciplinary research investigates the neurobiology underlying addiction disorders and related psychiatric illnesses. A major focus of this research is directed to risk factors of addiction disorders, including genetics, as well as developmental exposure to cannabis. Now that the majority of states in the US have legalized or decriminalized marijuana used for medical and or recreational purposes, the spotlight is fully on doctor Yasmin Heard and her pioneering work on the effects of marijuana on the developing brain. Her research has been featured not only in scientific journals, but also in popular culture as well. It's been a Time magazine cover story as well as the focus of documentaries from CNN and PBS, and she is the perfect expert to help us learn what we need to know about marijuana and other drugs. Doctor Hurb was born in Jamaica and moved here to New York City with her family when she was a young teen. She's a graduate of Sunny Binghamton and she completed her pH d at the world renowned Karlinska Institute in Sweden, where she taught about thirteen years before coming to Mount SINAI welcome to Ground Control Parenting, Doctor Hurd.

Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and now a podcast created for parents raising black and brown children. I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I am talking about how parents can get smart and help their children get smart about drug use with neuroscientists. Doctor Yasmin Heard. Doctor Hurd, is the director of the Addiction Institute at Mount Sinai here in New York City, and she's also Mount Signia's Ward Coleman Chair of Translational Neuroscience. Her disciplinary research investigates the neurobiology underlying addiction disorders and related psychiatric illnesses. A major focus of this research is directed to risk factors of addiction disorders, including genetics, as well as developmental exposure to cannabis. Now that the majority of states in the US have legalized or decriminalized marijuana used for medical and or recreational purposes, the spotlight is fully on doctor Yasmin Heard and her pioneering work on the effects of marijuana on the developing brain. Her research has been featured not only in scientific journals, but also in popular culture as well. It's been a Time magazine cover story as well as the focus of documentaries from CNN and PBS, and she is the perfect expert to help us learn what we need to know about marijuana and other drugs. Doctor Hurb was born in Jamaica and moved here to New York City with her family when she was a young teen. She's a graduate of Sunny Binghamton and she completed her pH d at the world renowned Karlinska Institute in Sweden, where she taught about thirteen years before coming to Mount SINAI welcome to Ground Control Parenting, Doctor Hurd.

Thanks for having me. It's really great to talk with you.

Thanks for having me. It's really great to talk with you.

I am so thrilled to learn about you and your work and to discover this scientific superstar in our midst and who happens to be a black woman. And I'm so thrilled that you're with us today to share info on a topic that concerns many parents, what we need to know and what we need to tell our kids about drug use, abuse and addiction. So let's get started.

I am so thrilled to learn about you and your work and to discover this scientific superstar in our midst and who happens to be a black woman. And I'm so thrilled that you're with us today to share info on a topic that concerns many parents, what we need to know and what we need to tell our kids about drug use, abuse and addiction. So let's get started.

I hope I'll be able to answer some of your questions help your audience.

I hope I'll be able to answer some of your questions help your audience.

I'm sure you will well. First, let me tell you that I actually solicited members of the audience to ask for questions. I got several questions, and I will sprinkle them into our conversation and at the end, I'll ask you a few others. Okay, So first, generally speaking, let's talk about what parents should know about drugs that are on the market today. So parents come to these discussions of drug use from a variety of vantage points. Some of them never went near any drugs, others sort of dabbled, and some may still use them recreationally, only the legal ones. But regardless of where you were on that spectrum, it seems as if parents, with their parenting had on need to know some basics about current drug use and availability. So can you talk to me a little bit about the differences between the drugs in early generations and the drugs now.

I'm sure you will well. First, let me tell you that I actually solicited members of the audience to ask for questions. I got several questions, and I will sprinkle them into our conversation and at the end, I'll ask you a few others. Okay, So first, generally speaking, let's talk about what parents should know about drugs that are on the market today. So parents come to these discussions of drug use from a variety of vantage points. Some of them never went near any drugs, others sort of dabbled, and some may still use them recreationally, only the legal ones. But regardless of where you were on that spectrum, it seems as if parents, with their parenting had on need to know some basics about current drug use and availability. So can you talk to me a little bit about the differences between the drugs in early generations and the drugs now.

I think that this is one of the issues with parents today because and with anything, as a parent, I think, you know, you look at your experience and the experiences that your children have, but it's always guided by what you went through, right, and therefore you give your knowledge to them, and you know your parents did it to you, and you sometimes obviously rolled your eyes and didn't listen, right, And it's the same thing. But there's a huge difference when it comes to drugs. Drugs in you know, even you know, I don't know how young your audience is, but even twenty years ago, the drugs are different from thirty forty, fifty years ago, and a major issue. There are a couple things. One the wide variety of drugs that are out there today. You know, when people and even when cannabis got its heyday with the hippie and the seventies, you know, these were mainly young adults, people forget going to college and so on. The potency of the cannabis even that they use back then so different and we can talk later more about that than the potency of the cannabis today. Back then there was really two strains of cannabis that were available. Today there's a cornucopia of cannabis strains and that's just one drug. The same thing goes for when you think about opioids, I mean, opioids are you know, when you think about drugs, people think of cannabis as the low, you know, more milder types of drug versus you know, the what we call it, you know, like the heavy heater drugs like opioids like cocaine and heroin. Opioids today so much more potent of these synthetic drugs. So again you have this broad variety of substances that teens and young adults and everybody have access to than you did twenty thirty, forty fifty years ago. So it is the availability of drugs and it's the potency of these drugs that are also a huge issue that there is no way parents today are even even if they experimented a lot back when they were teens and young adults, it's nowhere near the same. And also availability before people had to really oh that to know someone through this or that, and then they would sneak and go into oh, everything is available at the click of a button today for teens and young adults. So you have those three things and more that have made this huge I call it perfect storm and why we have a greater substance use problem today than we did in the past.

I think that this is one of the issues with parents today because and with anything, as a parent, I think, you know, you look at your experience and the experiences that your children have, but it's always guided by what you went through, right, and therefore you give your knowledge to them, and you know your parents did it to you, and you sometimes obviously rolled your eyes and didn't listen, right, And it's the same thing. But there's a huge difference when it comes to drugs. Drugs in you know, even you know, I don't know how young your audience is, but even twenty years ago, the drugs are different from thirty forty, fifty years ago, and a major issue. There are a couple things. One the wide variety of drugs that are out there today. You know, when people and even when cannabis got its heyday with the hippie and the seventies, you know, these were mainly young adults, people forget going to college and so on. The potency of the cannabis even that they use back then so different and we can talk later more about that than the potency of the cannabis today. Back then there was really two strains of cannabis that were available. Today there's a cornucopia of cannabis strains and that's just one drug. The same thing goes for when you think about opioids, I mean, opioids are you know, when you think about drugs, people think of cannabis as the low, you know, more milder types of drug versus you know, the what we call it, you know, like the heavy heater drugs like opioids like cocaine and heroin. Opioids today so much more potent of these synthetic drugs. So again you have this broad variety of substances that teens and young adults and everybody have access to than you did twenty thirty, forty fifty years ago. So it is the availability of drugs and it's the potency of these drugs that are also a huge issue that there is no way parents today are even even if they experimented a lot back when they were teens and young adults, it's nowhere near the same. And also availability before people had to really oh that to know someone through this or that, and then they would sneak and go into oh, everything is available at the click of a button today for teens and young adults. So you have those three things and more that have made this huge I call it perfect storm and why we have a greater substance use problem today than we did in the past.

So, say I'm a parent who has had no experience with drugs, how does one get a really reliable perspective on the current state of drugs and drug usage?

So, say I'm a parent who has had no experience with drugs, how does one get a really reliable perspective on the current state of drugs and drug usage?

The Internet is a source of good and evil because indeed, you can kill yourself deep diving in the Internet and you can read things that are actually not true. I think perhaps people should start at the National Institute of Drug Abuse and National Institutes of Alcohol Abuse, the NIEH, I should say, the NIH organizations. There are also some local state organizations that also give I think more fundamental information about substances. But even the NIH, NAIDA and IPlate those are the two substance use institutes. They have sections for parents, they have even sections for teens. Schools showed the Department of Education some states, I don't think all also provide some information about what drugs they see, and that's there in terms of for parents as well on their websites, and also I think could be good sources.

The Internet is a source of good and evil because indeed, you can kill yourself deep diving in the Internet and you can read things that are actually not true. I think perhaps people should start at the National Institute of Drug Abuse and National Institutes of Alcohol Abuse, the NIEH, I should say, the NIH organizations. There are also some local state organizations that also give I think more fundamental information about substances. But even the NIH, NAIDA and IPlate those are the two substance use institutes. They have sections for parents, they have even sections for teens. Schools showed the Department of Education some states, I don't think all also provide some information about what drugs they see, and that's there in terms of for parents as well on their websites, and also I think could be good sources.

Yeah. No, those are great suggestions. So let's dive into the drugs. Let's first talk about cannabis, because parents need to get smart on what's out there, and cannabis is out there for sure. So one of my listeners had a question, which is shared i'm sure by so many other parents. With cannabis being legally accessible and so many states, what should we tell our teens and our younger children about using cannabis? And I want to start with all of the reasons why all the pushback you get when you have these conversations. It's it's less has less impact than alcohol and tobacco. But you've heard them all, I'm sure.

Yeah. No, those are great suggestions. So let's dive into the drugs. Let's first talk about cannabis, because parents need to get smart on what's out there, and cannabis is out there for sure. So one of my listeners had a question, which is shared i'm sure by so many other parents. With cannabis being legally accessible and so many states, what should we tell our teens and our younger children about using cannabis? And I want to start with all of the reasons why all the pushback you get when you have these conversations. It's it's less has less impact than alcohol and tobacco. But you've heard them all, I'm sure.

Yeah. You know the thing that I think that we should look at substances and not compare them in the context of I think about the analogy. Do you prefer to jump out of the building on the third floor, fifth floor, tenth floor? You know, I think that is such a weird comparison. And yes, alcohol and tobacco are two legal drugs, and now cannabis has joined that. But if we think about it, alcohol and tobacco have killed more people in our country than so many other things. So you can tell your kids, Yeah, alcohol and tobacco are legal, and now cannabis has joined those ranks. But those drugs are very deadly. We have learned about those drugs. We have more data on those drugs, ironically than we do on cannabis. So now people, you know, use cigarettes and alcohol in a more manageable recreational level, but not everyone does, and those people who don't have serious problems, really serious problems. So I don't want people to downplay these substances as cannabis, yes, has not become legal, and I think it should have been decriminalized. I find it so sad that for so long this war on drugs was really about putting down and really imprisoning black and brown people for using cannabis, and it destroyed communities more so than the substance use did. And so we need to make sure just because you know, I am definitely for decriminalization, but I'm not for promotion of cannabis use. And that's why I think that people sometimes try to straddle this line. There is no line. There is a health risk for substance use. We can moderate the amount of use, just life with tobacco and with alcohol. I have a glass of wine? Is that a good thing? Some days when I've come home, it's like on a Friday night, I'm like, I need a glass of wine. Do I drink a bottle of wine? No? But some other people do. And so it's the same thing with cannabis. So I think that it's now legal and it needs to be regulated in a manner just like cigarettes and alcohol, to protect their children. End of the day. For me, this is about how do you protect it? Doesn't matter cannabis or anything else. How do you protect those most vulnerable in our society? And black and brown people have been the ones who have been persecuted the most and are the most vulnerable, and they're still the most vulnerable. I feel with this casualness about can.

Yeah. You know the thing that I think that we should look at substances and not compare them in the context of I think about the analogy. Do you prefer to jump out of the building on the third floor, fifth floor, tenth floor? You know, I think that is such a weird comparison. And yes, alcohol and tobacco are two legal drugs, and now cannabis has joined that. But if we think about it, alcohol and tobacco have killed more people in our country than so many other things. So you can tell your kids, Yeah, alcohol and tobacco are legal, and now cannabis has joined those ranks. But those drugs are very deadly. We have learned about those drugs. We have more data on those drugs, ironically than we do on cannabis. So now people, you know, use cigarettes and alcohol in a more manageable recreational level, but not everyone does, and those people who don't have serious problems, really serious problems. So I don't want people to downplay these substances as cannabis, yes, has not become legal, and I think it should have been decriminalized. I find it so sad that for so long this war on drugs was really about putting down and really imprisoning black and brown people for using cannabis, and it destroyed communities more so than the substance use did. And so we need to make sure just because you know, I am definitely for decriminalization, but I'm not for promotion of cannabis use. And that's why I think that people sometimes try to straddle this line. There is no line. There is a health risk for substance use. We can moderate the amount of use, just life with tobacco and with alcohol. I have a glass of wine? Is that a good thing? Some days when I've come home, it's like on a Friday night, I'm like, I need a glass of wine. Do I drink a bottle of wine? No? But some other people do. And so it's the same thing with cannabis. So I think that it's now legal and it needs to be regulated in a manner just like cigarettes and alcohol, to protect their children. End of the day. For me, this is about how do you protect it? Doesn't matter cannabis or anything else. How do you protect those most vulnerable in our society? And black and brown people have been the ones who have been persecuted the most and are the most vulnerable, and they're still the most vulnerable. I feel with this casualness about can.

Boy, You've said so much there that I'd love to unpack. And historically the government has participated in this effort to make cannabis this horrible thing and to scare everyone. They just say no the reefer madness. And as you've said in articles I've read the import of that now is that when you try to scare someone it's something they get so cynical that they're loath to actually believe any kind of negativity. And with respect to cannabis, and this is what I want to talk to you about first, there are some really positive things there are Your research is really trying to explore some of the healing properties of cannabis. Can you just give us a little primer on the CBD versus the THCHC?

Boy, You've said so much there that I'd love to unpack. And historically the government has participated in this effort to make cannabis this horrible thing and to scare everyone. They just say no the reefer madness. And as you've said in articles I've read the import of that now is that when you try to scare someone it's something they get so cynical that they're loath to actually believe any kind of negativity. And with respect to cannabis, and this is what I want to talk to you about first, there are some really positive things there are Your research is really trying to explore some of the healing properties of cannabis. Can you just give us a little primer on the CBD versus the THCHC?

Yeah? You know, so, I start this also by saying, and this is again people get into this like it must be black or white. I don't know any substance any medication, even those that are approved by the FDA that doesn't have side effects. What we do in medicine and research is to figure out what are the benefits of certain things and what are the negative things that we can hopefully mitigate, and usually we mitigate those by the dosing by targeting certain individuals who we know if they have a genetic risk or what other health conditions they have. So the same thing with cannabis. People think that cannabis is this one drug and it's not. Cannabis is actually one of the most complex plants on the planet, and it's gotten more complex because we have now designed newer strains, so you have over five hundred chemicals in this plant. So we had mainly studied THC, which is the main psychoactive component of cannabis that produces the high, you know, the euphoria with that impacts negatively on your short term memory, your motn coordination, and so on, and that's what we had seen actually had a negative impact on the developing brain. I wanted to see if because when we in our human studies we study cannabis, but in our animal models we studyed THC, one component of cannabis, so I want to see if there's another component, if that also did the same, And that's why we started studying CBD, cannabidial and it's a low percentage cannabinoid in the plant. And when we studied it, we were very surprised to see actually that it decreased heroin seeking behavior in animal models. And then we did human clinical studies and found that it decreased craving and anxiety in people with a heroin use disorder. I will tell you many people in the field, scientists and physicians didn't believe our results to start, so we got a lot of pushback. It took us a while to publish that, and now the whole world is like, oh, CBD. And the people who used to hate me because they thought I was anti cannabis, and I'm not anti cannabis. I'm about data as a scientist and about data. And then now they loved me because they were like, oh, you're showing that cannabis can be beneficial, and I'm like, yes, but it's a specific cannabinoid. It's a specific cannabinoid. And people the legalization of cannabis came about due to CBD because they pushed for I don't know if you remember Charlotte's Web, and it was this little girl called Charlotte and had epilepsy and her parents were trying to find and I understand it when your child is sick. They were trying to get help, and someone said this particular plant they had heard was helping with people with epilepsy, and they brought their daughter to Colorado and the strain that they now developed with CBD's had a higher concentration of CBD helped to improve her epilepsy.

Yeah? You know, so, I start this also by saying, and this is again people get into this like it must be black or white. I don't know any substance any medication, even those that are approved by the FDA that doesn't have side effects. What we do in medicine and research is to figure out what are the benefits of certain things and what are the negative things that we can hopefully mitigate, and usually we mitigate those by the dosing by targeting certain individuals who we know if they have a genetic risk or what other health conditions they have. So the same thing with cannabis. People think that cannabis is this one drug and it's not. Cannabis is actually one of the most complex plants on the planet, and it's gotten more complex because we have now designed newer strains, so you have over five hundred chemicals in this plant. So we had mainly studied THC, which is the main psychoactive component of cannabis that produces the high, you know, the euphoria with that impacts negatively on your short term memory, your motn coordination, and so on, and that's what we had seen actually had a negative impact on the developing brain. I wanted to see if because when we in our human studies we study cannabis, but in our animal models we studyed THC, one component of cannabis, so I want to see if there's another component, if that also did the same, And that's why we started studying CBD, cannabidial and it's a low percentage cannabinoid in the plant. And when we studied it, we were very surprised to see actually that it decreased heroin seeking behavior in animal models. And then we did human clinical studies and found that it decreased craving and anxiety in people with a heroin use disorder. I will tell you many people in the field, scientists and physicians didn't believe our results to start, so we got a lot of pushback. It took us a while to publish that, and now the whole world is like, oh, CBD. And the people who used to hate me because they thought I was anti cannabis, and I'm not anti cannabis. I'm about data as a scientist and about data. And then now they loved me because they were like, oh, you're showing that cannabis can be beneficial, and I'm like, yes, but it's a specific cannabinoid. It's a specific cannabinoid. And people the legalization of cannabis came about due to CBD because they pushed for I don't know if you remember Charlotte's Web, and it was this little girl called Charlotte and had epilepsy and her parents were trying to find and I understand it when your child is sick. They were trying to get help, and someone said this particular plant they had heard was helping with people with epilepsy, and they brought their daughter to Colorado and the strain that they now developed with CBD's had a higher concentration of CBD helped to improve her epilepsy.

But one second, Charlotte's Web is that Charlotte's Web is the person's name.

But one second, Charlotte's Web is that Charlotte's Web is the person's name.

So Charlotte is the young the girl. Charlotte's Web was a spider this childhood. Yeah, And so they called it Charlotte's Web, you know, in terms of for the strain, and they made a thing of yeah. So they made you know, they made this strain her name for her. And so one of the things about that was that it revolutionized people who were trying to legalize cannabis, and so they said, here, cannabis can can cure epilepsy. And it actually is now the only so epid dialectsis CBD that has approved by the FDA to treat childhood forms too rare childhood forms of epilepsy and even off label some other caesar disorders. That gave the impetus that, oh, cannabis can be used as a medicine, but it was CBD. It wasn't cannabis. So it's important that people understand that THHC and high THC cannabis strains may have beneficial some medicinal purposes, and we can talk about that, but CBD is very different from cannabis. And so you know, people tried to fuzz the line when they're saying, oh, we legalized cannabis because CBD were But CBD is not cannabis. It's a specific cannabinoid.

So Charlotte is the young the girl. Charlotte's Web was a spider this childhood. Yeah, And so they called it Charlotte's Web, you know, in terms of for the strain, and they made a thing of yeah. So they made you know, they made this strain her name for her. And so one of the things about that was that it revolutionized people who were trying to legalize cannabis, and so they said, here, cannabis can can cure epilepsy. And it actually is now the only so epid dialectsis CBD that has approved by the FDA to treat childhood forms too rare childhood forms of epilepsy and even off label some other caesar disorders. That gave the impetus that, oh, cannabis can be used as a medicine, but it was CBD. It wasn't cannabis. So it's important that people understand that THHC and high THC cannabis strains may have beneficial some medicinal purposes, and we can talk about that, but CBD is very different from cannabis. And so you know, people tried to fuzz the line when they're saying, oh, we legalized cannabis because CBD were But CBD is not cannabis. It's a specific cannabinoid.

If parents can look at marijuana use like they would look at alcohol use or tobacco use, and I know, I'm going to stick with alcohol because alcohol, unfortunately, is still very popular for underage children. The big disadvantage with respect to cannabis consumption is with alcohol, there's a limit. I mean, there's some regulations on you know, if you're driving and you're over the limit. I mean, there are ways for people outside of the people that have been with you while you've been taking this to figure out how much you've taken. And with cannabis, I don't know if there's a way to tell how much you've taken, but there's no measure of what is going to be okay and not dangerous.

If parents can look at marijuana use like they would look at alcohol use or tobacco use, and I know, I'm going to stick with alcohol because alcohol, unfortunately, is still very popular for underage children. The big disadvantage with respect to cannabis consumption is with alcohol, there's a limit. I mean, there's some regulations on you know, if you're driving and you're over the limit. I mean, there are ways for people outside of the people that have been with you while you've been taking this to figure out how much you've taken. And with cannabis, I don't know if there's a way to tell how much you've taken, but there's no measure of what is going to be okay and not dangerous.

Well there you know, more and more research is being done and there are measures. Obviously, no parent would allow their child and you should never allow police to take your child's blood levels. If they take you know, get your lawyer. You know. At the end of the day, as I said, I want to protect kids. I don't think the kids should be locked up and so your child pulled over, nobody takes their blood. If they take their blood, then they can get the levels. And we do know the levels. But I say even to you know, if you're with someone and they're consuming cannabis, it impacts on their motor coordination and their cognition. So do not get in a car with them. The same thing as if you're with your friends and you're drinking alcohol, have a designated driver. It's the same way as you would with alcohol. The same with cannabis. So make sure you keep safe and you know, the conversations that you have with your kids that need to be open and honest, you know that kids are going to experiment. Many of your is that your parents, many of them fall into the when they were teens and young adults, they experimented too. It's about safety. And I say this to my friends kids. I don't have kids myself. I'm on to everybody. Know your friends. Do not get into a car with when someone has consumed, no matter what as it is. And luckily for many of us who live in cities where there's uber, your parents will gladly go pick you up or pay for an uber driver a driver than to have you go in a car with someone who has consumed. It's the same thing. It's about safety. Know where your kids, which party that they're going to, know the home, whether or not those parents are consumers themselves, what are they allowing in their you know, the party. But I would also say, unfortunately, you know, in some cities, especially big urban cities, guns and with substance use, we have people not thinking while they're consumed, right, and we have a lot of young people dying or getting injured because of guns and you know, and that to me, the combination people don't talk about, but a lot of the actions that the impulsive actions a lot of these young people have is when they have consumed cannabis and other substances. So cannabis is no different in that condition.

Well there you know, more and more research is being done and there are measures. Obviously, no parent would allow their child and you should never allow police to take your child's blood levels. If they take you know, get your lawyer. You know. At the end of the day, as I said, I want to protect kids. I don't think the kids should be locked up and so your child pulled over, nobody takes their blood. If they take their blood, then they can get the levels. And we do know the levels. But I say even to you know, if you're with someone and they're consuming cannabis, it impacts on their motor coordination and their cognition. So do not get in a car with them. The same thing as if you're with your friends and you're drinking alcohol, have a designated driver. It's the same way as you would with alcohol. The same with cannabis. So make sure you keep safe and you know, the conversations that you have with your kids that need to be open and honest, you know that kids are going to experiment. Many of your is that your parents, many of them fall into the when they were teens and young adults, they experimented too. It's about safety. And I say this to my friends kids. I don't have kids myself. I'm on to everybody. Know your friends. Do not get into a car with when someone has consumed, no matter what as it is. And luckily for many of us who live in cities where there's uber, your parents will gladly go pick you up or pay for an uber driver a driver than to have you go in a car with someone who has consumed. It's the same thing. It's about safety. Know where your kids, which party that they're going to, know the home, whether or not those parents are consumers themselves, what are they allowing in their you know, the party. But I would also say, unfortunately, you know, in some cities, especially big urban cities, guns and with substance use, we have people not thinking while they're consumed, right, and we have a lot of young people dying or getting injured because of guns and you know, and that to me, the combination people don't talk about, but a lot of the actions that the impulsive actions a lot of these young people have is when they have consumed cannabis and other substances. So cannabis is no different in that condition.

Right, we'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to the show. So let's clear up something that I'm sure many parents don't even know about, or many parents may not know. Can you become addicted to cannabis. There's a theory that it's not addictive.

Right, we'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to the show. So let's clear up something that I'm sure many parents don't even know about, or many parents may not know. Can you become addicted to cannabis. There's a theory that it's not addictive.

So that is one of the biggest myths that you can't get addicted to cannabis. And people then also try to, you know, thread this needle that oh, it doesn't give physical dependence versus psychological dependence. Around thirty percent of people who use cannabis will develop a cannabis use disorder. And it's the same number as for her and our cocaine. But it's not because cannabis is as addictive as those other substances. It's just because more people in the US use cannabis. And if you look at just you know, if you truncate that down, even if you look at ever trying or so on, then perhaps about eleven percent of people will develop a cannabis use disorder. But it's the repeated use. You know, people think, Okay, I use it this time, It's fine, I use it another time and keep using it. The more you use it, the greater your chance of developing cannabis use disorder. Not everyone develops that. What we have seen and this is the challenge today as compared to the days when your audience were changes themselves, the potency of THT has gone up so much that the vulnerability to develop a cannabis use disorder increases, just like every other substance. The greater that concentration, that potency of the primary agent in the drug, the greater. As I said, your chance of developing an addiction so and a cannabis use disorder. People don't realize it's a clinically diagnosed disorder. You've lost control over your use. You're craving the use if you don't take it. People think that cannabis use disorder doesn't do anything physical to the body, and that is actually not true. People go through physical withdrawals, and it's not like alcohol withdrawals are opiate withdrawals. But they go through withdrawals. They're sleep changes, they're aggressing their anger, they're sweating, they're physiological and definitely a lot of psychological issues of stopping subs that they're cannabis used. We see that, you know, cannabis use disorder changes structural things in the brain and also how certain neural circuits function similar to other substance use disorders. So we know that it's not benign. No one would be taking cannabis, if you know, and smoking and getting high recreationally and all that, if it didn't do something.

So that is one of the biggest myths that you can't get addicted to cannabis. And people then also try to, you know, thread this needle that oh, it doesn't give physical dependence versus psychological dependence. Around thirty percent of people who use cannabis will develop a cannabis use disorder. And it's the same number as for her and our cocaine. But it's not because cannabis is as addictive as those other substances. It's just because more people in the US use cannabis. And if you look at just you know, if you truncate that down, even if you look at ever trying or so on, then perhaps about eleven percent of people will develop a cannabis use disorder. But it's the repeated use. You know, people think, Okay, I use it this time, It's fine, I use it another time and keep using it. The more you use it, the greater your chance of developing cannabis use disorder. Not everyone develops that. What we have seen and this is the challenge today as compared to the days when your audience were changes themselves, the potency of THT has gone up so much that the vulnerability to develop a cannabis use disorder increases, just like every other substance. The greater that concentration, that potency of the primary agent in the drug, the greater. As I said, your chance of developing an addiction so and a cannabis use disorder. People don't realize it's a clinically diagnosed disorder. You've lost control over your use. You're craving the use if you don't take it. People think that cannabis use disorder doesn't do anything physical to the body, and that is actually not true. People go through physical withdrawals, and it's not like alcohol withdrawals are opiate withdrawals. But they go through withdrawals. They're sleep changes, they're aggressing their anger, they're sweating, they're physiological and definitely a lot of psychological issues of stopping subs that they're cannabis used. We see that, you know, cannabis use disorder changes structural things in the brain and also how certain neural circuits function similar to other substance use disorders. So we know that it's not benign. No one would be taking cannabis, if you know, and smoking and getting high recreationally and all that, if it didn't do something.

For the brain.

For the brain.

So to say that, oh it doesn't, you know it does. The question is how much are you using the type of strain that you're using, how often you're using it that increases your risk of developing a disorder. And again I'm going to come back to black and brown I do think that we have and perhaps again I'm biased, I'm a black person. You're not improving your chances of getting to be who you are. The earlier to start with cannabis, the more potent the cannabis that people are, the kids are consuming today, it changes their trajectory. And we want more healthy black and brown adults. And you don't just miraculously become a healthy adult if your teenage life is filled with so many other challenges that we know that black and brown kids go through So I'm a little bit more perhaps more biased of what are the things that we need to provide our kids with so that they can be more successful, and consuming high potency cannabis does not do that. Will some of them make it out, absolutely, but not focusing on the people who make it out. I actually am focusing on the kids who are most vulnerable, and today kids are There's so much trauma, there's so much stress, and we know the combination of cannabis with that exacerbates psychiatric risk, and that to me is one of the issues as well.

So to say that, oh it doesn't, you know it does. The question is how much are you using the type of strain that you're using, how often you're using it that increases your risk of developing a disorder. And again I'm going to come back to black and brown I do think that we have and perhaps again I'm biased, I'm a black person. You're not improving your chances of getting to be who you are. The earlier to start with cannabis, the more potent the cannabis that people are, the kids are consuming today, it changes their trajectory. And we want more healthy black and brown adults. And you don't just miraculously become a healthy adult if your teenage life is filled with so many other challenges that we know that black and brown kids go through So I'm a little bit more perhaps more biased of what are the things that we need to provide our kids with so that they can be more successful, and consuming high potency cannabis does not do that. Will some of them make it out, absolutely, but not focusing on the people who make it out. I actually am focusing on the kids who are most vulnerable, and today kids are There's so much trauma, there's so much stress, and we know the combination of cannabis with that exacerbates psychiatric risk, and that to me is one of the issues as well.

Yeah, I know we have talked about that in earlier conversation, that the stress of the world. I mean another difference between our listener's youth and now. I mean we probably we felt really stressed back then.

Yeah, I know we have talked about that in earlier conversation, that the stress of the world. I mean another difference between our listener's youth and now. I mean we probably we felt really stressed back then.

Absolutely exactly Every generation has their stress.

Absolutely exactly Every generation has their stress.

But today, yeah, but today, I mean particularly today post pandemic, where the whole world has been sort of been teetering with respect to mental wellness. So there's off the charge. Stress increases for kids teens and so there's a lot of self medication. And you can tell us a little bit more about the fascinating discovery with respect to children who have a predisposition to a psychosis.

But today, yeah, but today, I mean particularly today post pandemic, where the whole world has been sort of been teetering with respect to mental wellness. So there's off the charge. Stress increases for kids teens and so there's a lot of self medication. And you can tell us a little bit more about the fascinating discovery with respect to children who have a predisposition to a psychosis.

Yeah, I mean, you know, this has been a debate for many years where you know a lot of data, early data had shown that people who tended to have a risk for schizophrenia for example, or psychosis, they were the ones who tended to have consumed cannabis. But it might have been self medicating. And so is it that it was it the cannabis that induced that, or is it that they already had the predisposition. But either way, cannabis seems to have revealed that more or at least sooner. And so that's one of the issues as well. There are studies that have replicated those findings. Many they have studies that have shown that actually it's not a replication, but it's really about their genetics. There's a combination and the environment and the environmental stressors that are there. But it emphasizes one thing we don't know. There are so many variables that the whole goal is to take away some of the variables. So if you can take away cannabis use, and especially high potency cannabis use, you take away one variable that's increasing the risk for your child. If you can help them with their stress management without substance use, Where does cannabis bind in the brain. Why do people feel that they self medicate and that this drug could help them with their anxiety or whatever. And they point to like, we have a natural cannabinoid system in us, and that's true. It's called the endocannabinoid system, and that endogenous cannabinoid system when our brain is developing pren italy in early development, it actually helps to wire the brain. So it plays a very fundamental role. The endocannabinoid system is part of many biological processes in our body and in our brain. It is critical for how the cells can communicate with each other. You don't need cannabis to actually get your brain to do some of the things that you think cannabis is doing. You can naturally find ways of teasing an impacting your own endogenous cannabinoid system. And that's where I'm horrible at it, but I'm gonna say, like aspects of meditation, yoga, you know, things like that. People, it's like, how do you control your own brain? That's what we need to teach kids, because that is your endogenous cannabinoid system. When you take cannabis, you now actually change your endogenous cannabinoid system, because now it's so overloaded that it now shuts down parts where it should not be shut down. So people don't understand that cannabis is changing our own natural of who we are. And you can do things and tap into your own you know. And so as I said, I'm horrible meditating. I'm actually myself a pretty intense person.

Yeah, I mean, you know, this has been a debate for many years where you know a lot of data, early data had shown that people who tended to have a risk for schizophrenia for example, or psychosis, they were the ones who tended to have consumed cannabis. But it might have been self medicating. And so is it that it was it the cannabis that induced that, or is it that they already had the predisposition. But either way, cannabis seems to have revealed that more or at least sooner. And so that's one of the issues as well. There are studies that have replicated those findings. Many they have studies that have shown that actually it's not a replication, but it's really about their genetics. There's a combination and the environment and the environmental stressors that are there. But it emphasizes one thing we don't know. There are so many variables that the whole goal is to take away some of the variables. So if you can take away cannabis use, and especially high potency cannabis use, you take away one variable that's increasing the risk for your child. If you can help them with their stress management without substance use, Where does cannabis bind in the brain. Why do people feel that they self medicate and that this drug could help them with their anxiety or whatever. And they point to like, we have a natural cannabinoid system in us, and that's true. It's called the endocannabinoid system, and that endogenous cannabinoid system when our brain is developing pren italy in early development, it actually helps to wire the brain. So it plays a very fundamental role. The endocannabinoid system is part of many biological processes in our body and in our brain. It is critical for how the cells can communicate with each other. You don't need cannabis to actually get your brain to do some of the things that you think cannabis is doing. You can naturally find ways of teasing an impacting your own endogenous cannabinoid system. And that's where I'm horrible at it, but I'm gonna say, like aspects of meditation, yoga, you know, things like that. People, it's like, how do you control your own brain? That's what we need to teach kids, because that is your endogenous cannabinoid system. When you take cannabis, you now actually change your endogenous cannabinoid system, because now it's so overloaded that it now shuts down parts where it should not be shut down. So people don't understand that cannabis is changing our own natural of who we are. And you can do things and tap into your own you know. And so as I said, I'm horrible meditating. I'm actually myself a pretty intense person.

But I'm not a good meditator either.

But I'm not a good meditator either.

But I'm not a you know, I'm anxious when it comes to like trying to meet all my deadlines and so on. But I think the things I'm anxious about are normal, which I have to make kids realize that sometimes their world, the things that they're dealing with, is normal, that they're feeling this anxious and it's fine. I think that we feel that we must nullify everything right, and it's biology. It's normal, And I think sometimes just to make kids realize they're normal.

But I'm not a you know, I'm anxious when it comes to like trying to meet all my deadlines and so on. But I think the things I'm anxious about are normal, which I have to make kids realize that sometimes their world, the things that they're dealing with, is normal, that they're feeling this anxious and it's fine. I think that we feel that we must nullify everything right, and it's biology. It's normal, And I think sometimes just to make kids realize they're normal.

No, it's so true. The podcast has had a resident psychiatrist that comes on every once in a while and talks to us about this, and he always says, stress is good. I mean, anxiety is good. The problem is when you can no longer manage it exactly. But anxiety is motivational. It is not a bad thing, so.

No, it's so true. The podcast has had a resident psychiatrist that comes on every once in a while and talks to us about this, and he always says, stress is good. I mean, anxiety is good. The problem is when you can no longer manage it exactly. But anxiety is motivational. It is not a bad thing, so.

Exactly, and teaching kids earlier you learn how do you manage stress? How do you manage anxiety that you can control? You can have control. I think for me the biggest thing is and from their children. I won't even wait till kids are you know, teens. It's about empowerment. Having your kids realize that they actually control their bodies nobody else should. And when kids have are grown raised in that way, I think that they can say no more to things when substances are offered to them, because they're like, do I do I want this? Not if my friends want this. You don't have to judge your friends, even if you know if all your a lot of your friends are taking drugs, you have to think, is this the group you really that reflects you? But this is about you and not other people. And I think this is a thing today's world because also social media, they are there's much more this pressure. There's always a pressure to be part of a group, but today's world there's much greater pressure than when your parents. You know your audience, we're.

Exactly, and teaching kids earlier you learn how do you manage stress? How do you manage anxiety that you can control? You can have control. I think for me the biggest thing is and from their children. I won't even wait till kids are you know, teens. It's about empowerment. Having your kids realize that they actually control their bodies nobody else should. And when kids have are grown raised in that way, I think that they can say no more to things when substances are offered to them, because they're like, do I do I want this? Not if my friends want this. You don't have to judge your friends, even if you know if all your a lot of your friends are taking drugs, you have to think, is this the group you really that reflects you? But this is about you and not other people. And I think this is a thing today's world because also social media, they are there's much more this pressure. There's always a pressure to be part of a group, but today's world there's much greater pressure than when your parents. You know your audience, we're.

All on view now and yes, exactly, so I think that that kind of pressure no generations ever had before.

All on view now and yes, exactly, so I think that that kind of pressure no generations ever had before.

And this is the thing of how do we get kids come back to themselves? And I think that that's what's missing today.

And this is the thing of how do we get kids come back to themselves? And I think that that's what's missing today.

So you know, that's a really helpful perspective because parents coming to this conversation are worried about something very specific like drug use, But the bigger lesson is helping our children learn to cope with things that would make them want to be dependent on something else to make them feel better. So part of the conversation about drugs is the acknowledgment that people do go to legal drugs and I mean, yep, they have a glass of wine. I mean we see it in the world. You can't pretend that no one does that, but that there are other ways. It's not the panacea. That's not the go to for feeling better, for helping yourself feel better.

So you know, that's a really helpful perspective because parents coming to this conversation are worried about something very specific like drug use, But the bigger lesson is helping our children learn to cope with things that would make them want to be dependent on something else to make them feel better. So part of the conversation about drugs is the acknowledgment that people do go to legal drugs and I mean, yep, they have a glass of wine. I mean we see it in the world. You can't pretend that no one does that, but that there are other ways. It's not the panacea. That's not the go to for feeling better, for helping yourself feel better.

Not feeling better long term, because what happens is then you need that drug, not just that night, the next night, the next and then it becomes your crutch when and no matter how you can say, oh, I'm not addict, I don't need it, you stop start craving. Oh you were wrong. That tells you that it's not you. It was the substance, and that's the issue.

Not feeling better long term, because what happens is then you need that drug, not just that night, the next night, the next and then it becomes your crutch when and no matter how you can say, oh, I'm not addict, I don't need it, you stop start craving. Oh you were wrong. That tells you that it's not you. It was the substance, and that's the issue.

Okay, So anti doctor heard, tell, what do you tell the many young people that come to you and say, I mean, as I said, the barn doors, open, the horses out. It's not we cannot what we could say, avoid all of this. Avoid cannabis at all costs. You are forbidden, but for your lifetime. Because I mean, truthfully, let me, before I finished asking me that question, I'll back up and say that your research has indicated that, as we've said, different healing properties, mostly CBD, and that frankly, the young developing brain can have some negative impact of cannabis. The young developing brain can also have negative impact from alcohol. I mean there are other things that So what would you say is if you've got a teen and they say, I don't care what you say, I'm going to smoke. At some point, what do you say to your to the children that come to you and say and they say, okay, at what age does it make sense for my brain to try this?

Okay, So anti doctor heard, tell, what do you tell the many young people that come to you and say, I mean, as I said, the barn doors, open, the horses out. It's not we cannot what we could say, avoid all of this. Avoid cannabis at all costs. You are forbidden, but for your lifetime. Because I mean, truthfully, let me, before I finished asking me that question, I'll back up and say that your research has indicated that, as we've said, different healing properties, mostly CBD, and that frankly, the young developing brain can have some negative impact of cannabis. The young developing brain can also have negative impact from alcohol. I mean there are other things that So what would you say is if you've got a teen and they say, I don't care what you say, I'm going to smoke. At some point, what do you say to your to the children that come to you and say and they say, okay, at what age does it make sense for my brain to try this?

I always used to tease my little ones as a gull, and I would say, wait till your brain has reached full maturity, which really is like your mid twenties, you know, Because for whatever reason, we still don't understand it. We do know that there's a difference of vulnerability for substances in the developing brain versus the adult brain. So that's one of the things as well. So the later you can really get into deep experimentation with drugs, the better for for you. As I said, we don't know why we're trying to understand the developing brain in this context, but that is absolutely clear. So you know, I know a lot of people probably won't want to wait until they're midwenty five. I'm like, even question more at thirty now, but I'm like, you know, but I do think that it's about educating them about alcohol, nicotine, cannabis. The difference between alcohol and cannabis today comes back to what we were talking about earlier potency. So one of the things that we know is that a lot of teens are starting younger today, but they're starting with high potency TC. So when you're having a conversation with your kids, they have to know that they don't know what's in the cannabis. That to me is a big, big issue. The alcohol actually, you know, whether you know it's wine or beer or they may get into the vodka. You actually know. Another thing that's happening, which I think probably parents may not realize with cannabis and some other quote unquote even more not as hard drugs, is that people have now started to lace cannabis with synthetic opoids like fentanil. What it does is that it makes kids addicted much quicker, and so then it gets their clientele up quickly. So the conversations you have to have is like where did you get the Where you know when if you're going to try it, know where it's coming from. Even some of the people are dealing it don't even probably know that it's laced with these things. So the adulterance in cannabis today, So that's one good thing about legalization is that the dispensaries and the stores that are given the licenses to provide recreational cannabis, even though sometimes when they have been tested they're not necessarily accurate to what they say that should be in their product, they're getting tested more often so they're getting better at it. But at least it shouldn't have fentanil, it shouldn't have other adulterance, and that to me, at least it comes back as I said earlier, it's about safety. You know, teens are going to be exposed to a lot today, much more than they or in the past. They have to be empowered to be able to be open to asking questions about the people who when they're given stuff, and these are the things that they should, you know, really ask about.

I always used to tease my little ones as a gull, and I would say, wait till your brain has reached full maturity, which really is like your mid twenties, you know, Because for whatever reason, we still don't understand it. We do know that there's a difference of vulnerability for substances in the developing brain versus the adult brain. So that's one of the things as well. So the later you can really get into deep experimentation with drugs, the better for for you. As I said, we don't know why we're trying to understand the developing brain in this context, but that is absolutely clear. So you know, I know a lot of people probably won't want to wait until they're midwenty five. I'm like, even question more at thirty now, but I'm like, you know, but I do think that it's about educating them about alcohol, nicotine, cannabis. The difference between alcohol and cannabis today comes back to what we were talking about earlier potency. So one of the things that we know is that a lot of teens are starting younger today, but they're starting with high potency TC. So when you're having a conversation with your kids, they have to know that they don't know what's in the cannabis. That to me is a big, big issue. The alcohol actually, you know, whether you know it's wine or beer or they may get into the vodka. You actually know. Another thing that's happening, which I think probably parents may not realize with cannabis and some other quote unquote even more not as hard drugs, is that people have now started to lace cannabis with synthetic opoids like fentanil. What it does is that it makes kids addicted much quicker, and so then it gets their clientele up quickly. So the conversations you have to have is like where did you get the Where you know when if you're going to try it, know where it's coming from. Even some of the people are dealing it don't even probably know that it's laced with these things. So the adulterance in cannabis today, So that's one good thing about legalization is that the dispensaries and the stores that are given the licenses to provide recreational cannabis, even though sometimes when they have been tested they're not necessarily accurate to what they say that should be in their product, they're getting tested more often so they're getting better at it. But at least it shouldn't have fentanil, it shouldn't have other adulterance, and that to me, at least it comes back as I said earlier, it's about safety. You know, teens are going to be exposed to a lot today, much more than they or in the past. They have to be empowered to be able to be open to asking questions about the people who when they're given stuff, and these are the things that they should, you know, really ask about.

Quick question that occurs to me, does it matter edibles versus smoking or is it?

Quick question that occurs to me, does it matter edibles versus smoking or is it?

Yeah, it does, I mean edibles. I mean, ironically more people go to the emergency room now for cannabis than they've ever done before. Why because of edibles. Because edibles take a longer time to kick in. So by the time people are like, oh, I'm not feeling anything, let me eat some more, and they start eating more and then it gets its really toxic bad levels. They start then really hallucinating, having trips to the point where then they end up in the emergency room. So the time course of the high, the time course of how it hits the body differs between the smoking and the edibles.

Yeah, it does, I mean edibles. I mean, ironically more people go to the emergency room now for cannabis than they've ever done before. Why because of edibles. Because edibles take a longer time to kick in. So by the time people are like, oh, I'm not feeling anything, let me eat some more, and they start eating more and then it gets its really toxic bad levels. They start then really hallucinating, having trips to the point where then they end up in the emergency room. So the time course of the high, the time course of how it hits the body differs between the smoking and the edibles.

So that's really good information for us to share with our kids because they may not know that. And you can actually at the worst case, save yourself a trip to the hospital. But in an easier hopefully not that severe case. Know that if you do ingest whatever age you are, and hopefully you're an older age, if it doesn't hit immediately, you know why and you're not you're not.

So that's really good information for us to share with our kids because they may not know that. And you can actually at the worst case, save yourself a trip to the hospital. But in an easier hopefully not that severe case. Know that if you do ingest whatever age you are, and hopefully you're an older age, if it doesn't hit immediately, you know why and you're not you're not.

Just do not keep taking exactly, because that's one of the things that's really really critical. And edibles, I think that they've gotten a little better now again if you buy from reputable stores, reputable but you know companies, because edibles when they made them, it's not evenly distributed. So the TC in there, and so you could have something really next to the piece, next to someone's piece that they consume and you don't have the same No, they were not uniform oh interesting, and so that was one of the things that we saw. And and it's not just because somebody had a genetic risk.

Just do not keep taking exactly, because that's one of the things that's really really critical. And edibles, I think that they've gotten a little better now again if you buy from reputable stores, reputable but you know companies, because edibles when they made them, it's not evenly distributed. So the TC in there, and so you could have something really next to the piece, next to someone's piece that they consume and you don't have the same No, they were not uniform oh interesting, and so that was one of the things that we saw. And and it's not just because somebody had a genetic risk.

It's just that if potency was different exactly. But hopefully that what with legalization and regulation of the various dispensaries, hopefully exactly that danger has been.

It's just that if potency was different exactly. But hopefully that what with legalization and regulation of the various dispensaries, hopefully exactly that danger has been.

Even for them. Those companies have found ways of In the beginning, even they did not have uniformity in all of their edible pieces. But now it's better.

Even for them. Those companies have found ways of In the beginning, even they did not have uniformity in all of their edible pieces. But now it's better.

Huh. Well, that's really good to know now, just as a side note, The problem with that perspective that the government took is that they delayed for years researching.

Huh. Well, that's really good to know now, just as a side note, The problem with that perspective that the government took is that they delayed for years researching.

Well, you know, so I'm going to say yes and no. So what people don't understand about research, perhaps is that most of the research that's done, at least that's funded by the National Institutes of Health and Age, it's investigator driven. So most investigators didn't think that cannabis was a problem, so they would study cocaine, they would study heroin and nicotine. So that's why we know a lot about nicotine and alcohol. We didn't study cannabis because they didn't think that it was an issue. So it's I think people think that there was a you know, like this collusion to stop research. There wasn't. It's just that what research people thought to study for the developing brain was really alcohol and nicotine, and for adults it was cocaine. And then when heroin opio had started to come from opioids. And this is where I do think that the government should play a bigger role. We shouldn't wait till people are like dying before we start to investigate.

Well, you know, so I'm going to say yes and no. So what people don't understand about research, perhaps is that most of the research that's done, at least that's funded by the National Institutes of Health and Age, it's investigator driven. So most investigators didn't think that cannabis was a problem, so they would study cocaine, they would study heroin and nicotine. So that's why we know a lot about nicotine and alcohol. We didn't study cannabis because they didn't think that it was an issue. So it's I think people think that there was a you know, like this collusion to stop research. There wasn't. It's just that what research people thought to study for the developing brain was really alcohol and nicotine, and for adults it was cocaine. And then when heroin opio had started to come from opioids. And this is where I do think that the government should play a bigger role. We shouldn't wait till people are like dying before we start to investigate.

Well, just this week, the White House has come out with a declaring because I wanted to talk about fentanyl. But this combination of fentanyl and xylazine, which is known as trenk, it's like an animal tranquilize. Yeah, exactly, and they've declared it an emerging threat in quotes because that triggers the ability to start spending money on figuring out more about it.

Well, just this week, the White House has come out with a declaring because I wanted to talk about fentanyl. But this combination of fentanyl and xylazine, which is known as trenk, it's like an animal tranquilize. Yeah, exactly, and they've declared it an emerging threat in quotes because that triggers the ability to start spending money on figuring out more about it.

Exactly. Salazine started off this little thing and now it's you know, infiltrated practically the whole us. And this adulterant, this contaminant with the opioids because people get this big high, but it's a tranquilizer, it's an animal tranquilizer. It produces a lot of damage in the body. So again, all of these synthetic adulterants that are in products that many people don't realize that they're consuming. I think our society in this, you know, like this moral issue, the stigma that comes with it and the criminalization of it just makes this cycle to make it worse, rather than say, if we recognize that this is a norm in our society because this is a drug country, how do we deal with it is a reflection of us as a society, and we deal with it by trying to think that okay, if we lock them up, then it's a way, and it's not because we're not treating those individuals. All we're doing is locking them up worsening their addiction because they now, especially when people come out, they overdose, often become they go back to the same thing, and you know, it's just this cycle. So for me, if we really want to help society, we need to be more open about substance use as we are about you know, every disorder and treated as such, and that I think would also help parents and discussions and kids themselves. You know, a lot of teens don't want to do things. It's the pressure and so yeah.

Exactly. Salazine started off this little thing and now it's you know, infiltrated practically the whole us. And this adulterant, this contaminant with the opioids because people get this big high, but it's a tranquilizer, it's an animal tranquilizer. It produces a lot of damage in the body. So again, all of these synthetic adulterants that are in products that many people don't realize that they're consuming. I think our society in this, you know, like this moral issue, the stigma that comes with it and the criminalization of it just makes this cycle to make it worse, rather than say, if we recognize that this is a norm in our society because this is a drug country, how do we deal with it is a reflection of us as a society, and we deal with it by trying to think that okay, if we lock them up, then it's a way, and it's not because we're not treating those individuals. All we're doing is locking them up worsening their addiction because they now, especially when people come out, they overdose, often become they go back to the same thing, and you know, it's just this cycle. So for me, if we really want to help society, we need to be more open about substance use as we are about you know, every disorder and treated as such, and that I think would also help parents and discussions and kids themselves. You know, a lot of teens don't want to do things. It's the pressure and so yeah.

Right, right, yeah, I agree that Asa s asked about how you develop an open communication with your child about drugs, and it really does speak to what you're saying. We are a society that uses drugs. I mean, we medicate with drugs. I mean we even fd provement right absolutely, and as opposed to there being this camp of people who have nothing to do with it. In this camp of people who I'm now saying drugs, any kind of stimulant of any kind, it's in the world, and so we have to just say.

Right, right, yeah, I agree that Asa s asked about how you develop an open communication with your child about drugs, and it really does speak to what you're saying. We are a society that uses drugs. I mean, we medicate with drugs. I mean we even fd provement right absolutely, and as opposed to there being this camp of people who have nothing to do with it. In this camp of people who I'm now saying drugs, any kind of stimulant of any kind, it's in the world, and so we have to just say.

No does not work. It doesn't work.

No does not work. It doesn't work.

It doesn't work at all. I want to get back to fenyl, but just a little more because it's become this big buzzword now, I mean it is can you it's a synthetic opioid? Me, it's man made? Then?

It doesn't work at all. I want to get back to fenyl, but just a little more because it's become this big buzzword now, I mean it is can you it's a synthetic opioid? Me, it's man made? Then?

Yeah, it's like nearly one hundredfold more potent than morphine. It is extremely potent, and.

Yeah, it's like nearly one hundredfold more potent than morphine. It is extremely potent, and.

It's killing more people than heroin now correct? Right?

It's killing more people than heroin now correct? Right?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Right? Yeah, So here's my night take because I'm not I don't know about fentanyl. Do people take it by itself or does it only get put into drugs, so, you know, other drugs.

Right? Yeah, So here's my night take because I'm not I don't know about fentanyl. Do people take it by itself or does it only get put into drugs, so, you know, other drugs.

Yeah, so it's both. So in the beginning when they started to put fentanyl in, why one, it's cheaper for them to make and to ship to the US. You remember, like you know when people to ship heroin, they're big blocks and so on these as I just said, it's like, if it's like fifty times more potent than heroin, you just need a little amount of it. So you could put it, you could ship it or hide it, I should say, in a much easier way than you could heroin. So it came a lot through China, and then China went through Mexico, and the Mexico and through and people then started becoming more addicted to it, so that God, as it said, their clientele increased the lug. You get more people addicted. Yes, people are dying more, but the addiction kicks in much faster now when people have gotten addicted. Now many people are choosing fentanyl. So initially it was just that they were they were using heroin. Fentanyl happened to be in there. There are now kits that people can buy, even for in hospital. There are some harm reduction sites where they'll test your drug for you to show whether or not there's any fentanyl in there. But now there are people so addicted to fentanyl, to that huge, huge high that they're choosing it, and that is more dangerous and again obviously that's why there's more deaths and so correct. So we keep evolving. So you know, we went from the prescription opioids, then those who got clapped down, then people switched to a heroine, and then now people are switching to fentanyl. This is the problem that we have. Addiction is real. Addiction is deadly because you know, people think, oh, just stop, just say no, it's not that easy. It has completely taken over the brain. And even when people don't want to, they don't want to lose their friends and families, their homes, right themselves, and even their lives. It is so powerful and I don't think people understand the restructuring, physical restructuring of the brain that occurs that changes that individual.

Yeah, so it's both. So in the beginning when they started to put fentanyl in, why one, it's cheaper for them to make and to ship to the US. You remember, like you know when people to ship heroin, they're big blocks and so on these as I just said, it's like, if it's like fifty times more potent than heroin, you just need a little amount of it. So you could put it, you could ship it or hide it, I should say, in a much easier way than you could heroin. So it came a lot through China, and then China went through Mexico, and the Mexico and through and people then started becoming more addicted to it, so that God, as it said, their clientele increased the lug. You get more people addicted. Yes, people are dying more, but the addiction kicks in much faster now when people have gotten addicted. Now many people are choosing fentanyl. So initially it was just that they were they were using heroin. Fentanyl happened to be in there. There are now kits that people can buy, even for in hospital. There are some harm reduction sites where they'll test your drug for you to show whether or not there's any fentanyl in there. But now there are people so addicted to fentanyl, to that huge, huge high that they're choosing it, and that is more dangerous and again obviously that's why there's more deaths and so correct. So we keep evolving. So you know, we went from the prescription opioids, then those who got clapped down, then people switched to a heroine, and then now people are switching to fentanyl. This is the problem that we have. Addiction is real. Addiction is deadly because you know, people think, oh, just stop, just say no, it's not that easy. It has completely taken over the brain. And even when people don't want to, they don't want to lose their friends and families, their homes, right themselves, and even their lives. It is so powerful and I don't think people understand the restructuring, physical restructuring of the brain that occurs that changes that individual.

Well. One of our listeners, gwen A, was noting that it's a topic high school. It's it's a big topic around schools, and she's asked about how we talk to our teens about it, and it sounds like, I mean, we've given lots of ways to first of all, to define what it is and then to know that it's something to be avoided at all costs. So this concept of narcan, I mean darkan being.

Well. One of our listeners, gwen A, was noting that it's a topic high school. It's it's a big topic around schools, and she's asked about how we talk to our teens about it, and it sounds like, I mean, we've given lots of ways to first of all, to define what it is and then to know that it's something to be avoided at all costs. So this concept of narcan, I mean darkan being.

Is then antagonist. So NARCN so your opioid receptors in your brain, the opioids bind to it, and so NARCN is the antagonist that kicks them off.

Is then antagonist. So NARCN so your opioid receptors in your brain, the opioids bind to it, and so NARCN is the antagonist that kicks them off.

AH.

AH.

One of the things about fentanyl, it is so potent that you may need even narkan would quickly like reverses an overdose from heroin fentanil. You may need even three times narcan and then fentanyl in the body. It will get kicked off and it'll come back on. Kicked off, come back on. That's to tell you again the deadly nature of fentanyl. So narcn is really important and I do think that it should be everywhere in our society today in terms of even schools. But you know, going back to Gwenna and the questions, I do think waiting till your teens are teens. It's also I think start kids about those having open discussions. I think our society treats drugs and same way. When do you start talking about sex with your kids? Do you wait until they are eighteen? No, hopefully you're talking and having discussions about things before it becomes an issue. And as I said, you know, for me, why do you need the drug? I think often it's like kids learn about question themselves why am I doing this? Why am I going to? And it doesn't have to be about drugs. If it's the same questions are asked for other things the same way that you ask drugs, then the drug thing doesn't become so stressful to talk to your kids about. And I think this is the thing we make them into these big conversations. Have those conversations all the time. The news is showing you every day have those conversations. Did you know about this? You know what's fentanil talked? You know?

One of the things about fentanyl, it is so potent that you may need even narkan would quickly like reverses an overdose from heroin fentanil. You may need even three times narcan and then fentanyl in the body. It will get kicked off and it'll come back on. Kicked off, come back on. That's to tell you again the deadly nature of fentanyl. So narcn is really important and I do think that it should be everywhere in our society today in terms of even schools. But you know, going back to Gwenna and the questions, I do think waiting till your teens are teens. It's also I think start kids about those having open discussions. I think our society treats drugs and same way. When do you start talking about sex with your kids? Do you wait until they are eighteen? No, hopefully you're talking and having discussions about things before it becomes an issue. And as I said, you know, for me, why do you need the drug? I think often it's like kids learn about question themselves why am I doing this? Why am I going to? And it doesn't have to be about drugs. If it's the same questions are asked for other things the same way that you ask drugs, then the drug thing doesn't become so stressful to talk to your kids about. And I think this is the thing we make them into these big conversations. Have those conversations all the time. The news is showing you every day have those conversations. Did you know about this? You know what's fentanil talked? You know?

Right? Yeah, right, Yeah, I think you're right. We perhaps the way that some parents feel about talking with their children about sex, we do. We kind of sort of get built up for this conversation. And that actually leads me to another question I want to ask you about, and that is that so many parents, because of their own historic drug use, recreational drug use. I mean, assuming a parent was not addicted, but if parents went through recreational drug use and stopped at some point or didn't stop, they feel that they are they're being hypocritical when they tell their children sort of wait or because they can remember that when they were fifteen, eighteen, whatever, they didn't wait. We have to based in great part in what you said at the onset that it's a different world of drugs out there. Yeah. So there are a lot of things to respond. Firstus that it's a different world. This is not your drugs and these are different drugs. And secondly, this sort of the admission of drug use is so fraught. I think parents can get caught up in that part. I mean, the question is you know when your child says to you, well, you know, what did you use? I remember having that moment where it's like do I what do I say? But but I think a good answer to that is that's almost relevant. I mean it doesn't matter. I understand the temptation, but let me tell you that it's different. I mean it's like, you know, if I would never advise any child of mine to drink what was that alcohol? That was just grain great?