It's just me and KARL this week, with Happyman unavailable. We have a chat about the four games played in the RC so far, then discuss how we think the All Black and Wallaby tours will go, and finish off with a lively discussion about the high contact law. We manage to do that in just under 55 minutes for those timing us.
You don't know anything about rugby.
Don't talk. Regan. Drop goal from Larkham. Australia three four. They've got the advantage.
Worst press conference. Well done boys.
Hello and welcome to Gag and Gags Talking team's podcast. I'm Sally Sully, and I'm having a crack at having a go at hosting this week with Happy Man. Uh, not available. I'm here with Karl tonight, and we're going to have a mini review of what's happened in the first third of the Rugby Championship so far. How you going, Karl?
Yeah. Good, mate. Um, good to be back. It's been a been a while since we've managed to do this with with you and happy man going on holiday and obviously putting yourselves over and above the the gag of fans. But that's fine. You know, we can live with that. So yeah. Good to be back, mate. And um, we'll see how things pan out.
Yeah, I had a I had a bit of a rough time sitting on Cowley Beach up near Cairns with one bar of 4G. Trying to watch the Wallabies and Argentina on Tuesday night was when I finally got a chance to sit down and look at it, and I reckon it buffered about 80 to 100 times. It was just I barely got a minute of, uh, I barely got a minute of rugby, uh, without without it stopping. But it was still worth it. I still enjoyed myself. But then I was sitting, sitting, um, 20m from the beach with that blue moon coming up over the ocean. It was pretty, pretty special.
Sounds awesome, buddy.
Yeah, it was good. Um, so, um, thank you for all your support, people. Uh, please download and subscribe and rate and review us, please. And, um, if you get a chance, have a look in the forums. There's always, uh, for any game that we talk about. There's a match thread and plenty of people talking about what they think the teams could be and who they think will win and lose. And lots of wrong. um, wrong, um, opinions that you can correct.
So you know what they say about opinions, mate? Um, but we won't go there.
Yeah, everyone's got one.
Everyone's got one.
Yeah.
Like arseholes, mate. I don't want to share yours, so I don't want to. Anyway.
Today we're going to run through the four games that have happened so far and have a quick, uh, talk about what we think, how we think each game went. And, um, and then we're going to move on to why, how we think the next, uh, two games will go on the tours to South Africa and Argentina. And then we're going to have a little talk instead of shouting at clouds, we'll have a referees talk about a few things that happened in the rugby Championships. So, um, firstly, the first game that we're going to talk about is the first New Zealand Argentina game at um, where um, surprisingly for me at least, New Zealand went down 30 points to 38 to Argentina. Now, this was a bit odd to me because New Zealand looked pretty much in control. 20 minutes in they were ten nil up. They were winning at half time. Um, and then uh, straight after half time Argentina, um, grabbed a maul try and then New Zealand did something strange, like about 45 minutes in, uh, 45m out from goal. They took a and they were two points behind. They seemed to, I don't know, blink. And they took a long range penalty kick and it went 2322. And then Argentina seemed to be back in the game. What do you think happened Karl. Where where New Zealand just complacent or not.
I don't think.
They were.
I don't think they were complacent. I think um, when I watched this game, um, and and yeah they, they New Zealand got ahead but it looked to me through the whole game as though the players didn't know what they were doing. They razor has obviously come in. He's got an idea about how he wants the game to play. Um, he's got a game plan. And and when I watched this game, I was under the impression that the players either hadn't bought into the game plan or they didn't fully understand it. There was a lot of a lot of mistakes made by players where they almost didn't know what they were doing. You know, the the ball was being passed to players who weren't ready for it. Um, there was players who were who were going into contest and they didn't have people backing them up. So we were losing the contest and it just the whole game just felt to me like the the what the coach wanted to achieve and what the game plan wanted to achieve didn't sync up with what the players were doing. Um, and I think, um, you know, it's interesting, we've and we'll probably bring it up later with, um, McDonald. Um, and and razor parting ways. But there's too many there were too many coaches in the, in the team. You know, they had like, you know, someone who was coaching the halfback and first five and someone who was coaching the inside centers and outside, and then someone else was doing the loose forwards and someone else was doing the tight pack, and none of it was synced up. And I think that they just they just weren't synced. And, um, Argentina took advantage of that. They played really, really well. They, they had a, a really good plan. Rush defense, keep the ball tight, suck in the players, get it out fast and then back each other up. And it won them the game. You know um, I guess for me too. The other thing is that when you look at, you know, 20 years ago, the top five players never lost to anyone below them. But now, if you've got the top 9 or 10 teams in the world, actually any one of those teams can win on their day. A few things go the right way, and I think this was just one of those games. You know, things went Argentina's way. New Zealand didn't really have a game plan. They understood things didn't go their way. And and Argentina won. Good on them. Well done. It was a it was a great game. I was obviously hugely disappointed but can't take anything away from Argentina. They absolutely deserved that game. So well done.
Yeah yeah yeah they definitely um the first half they were just hanging on by the skin of their teeth and uh, the two tries they scored in the first half were just opportunistic. They, the first one was, uh, just ripping the ball out from a maul mall and a couple of passes. Yep. Um, and the second one was just that knockback from Sevarius.
It's. Yeah. And it's little things like that, you know? Um, sevu Reece runs in to knock the ball back. Well done. Jumped high, knocked the ball back and no one was there. So an Argentina Argentine player picked it up and scored the guy. And that's part of what I mean. You know, the players didn't seem to know what their role was what was happening. And Argentina took advantage of it. Well done. Can't complain about that at all you know. Yeah.
Yeah. I will say that first try by Sam Darry. I rewatched that today, and, um, he was great. Try to get to where he is. There's no he had no right to. Yeah. Yeah. So we might move on to the second game. Uh, run by one by New Zealand, 42 to 10. And talk about a turnaround. It was like night and day and everything about the match was different. It was pouring rain. Um, New Zealand would dominate the whole match. They scored six tries to one, and Argentina's try was basically a consolation try in the 71st minute. Um, so yeah. Good call.
Oh, look, I, I think that, um, razor basically spent that whole week taking the team through their game plan, and people knew what they were doing and could then play it. I, I actually, um, I think that it's going to be a little bit of an issue for us, for New Zealand on this one, because I think they showed a hand to South Africa that they probably didn't want to show this early in the championship. Um, they, they certainly in that first half, they played exceptionally well in the second half. Um, Argentina, I'm not sure on the kicking side of it, but they either it was either a draw or Argentina was slightly ahead, but it didn't matter because New Zealand had scored so many tries. I think one of the one of the problems that New Zealand has to work on is that when they bring in their replacements, they don't fit in as seamlessly as what some other teams do, and certainly the Boks do. The you know, when the Boks bringing their bomb squad, every one of those players fits seamlessly into the pattern and keeps playing. When New Zealand brings in their replacements, the play seems to not be as coordinated and not not quite synced up. So I think that that's going to be an issue for New Zealand if they don't sort it out. Um, it was actually an issue that I noticed during the Rugby World Cup. And it's something they they need to get a handle on because no matter how well they play, uh, when their replacements come on, things don't seem to be synced up as well. Um, I'm not sure if the weather had much of an issue in it Um, obviously it's harder, but you know, where there's the same for both teams, so I don't I don't see the weather being an issue for either team. It's just something they have to deal with. The New Zealand handle the weather better maybe. Um, obviously in that first half, you know, when you talk about the five tries to none they they were on fire. Their support play was good. The players knew what they were doing. They were backing each other up when a when a player took a ball into contact, there were other people supporting him. When the ball came back, there was always someone there. So I think that they they just got their game plan together so much better. And I think that the week between the two games showed that razor had put a lot of effort into making sure that the people understood the game plan. Um, the only risk I see is that they actually showed South Africa a little bit more about what their game plan was, and I think that's something that might hurt them in the coming weeks.
Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely, um, a team that knew what they were doing in New Zealand. And, um, and Argentina had no, no answer to it at all. They made a couple of changes, or at least one change in their in their forward pack, where they moved Cremer out of the back row into the second row, um, and changed their back row a bit, but I, I couldn't imagine that making that much difference, really. A second row anyway.
Yeah. No, I agree, I, I think I don't think Argentina did anything wrong. I think that New Zealand just did a lot more right that they didn't do in the first game. Um, and obviously the Eden Park came into it, you know, um, I don't know what the hell it is about that ground, but, um, New Zealand has won there for a long, long, long time. And, uh They seem to pick up when they go to that ground. Um, my only thing is we need to play more games there, obviously, but there you go. Maybe, maybe, maybe New Zealand should do a complete series where we play everyone at Eden Park. We might win the damn thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Well, we used to think about about, uh, Lang Park in Brisbane, but, uh, no, we can't even win there at the moment. So which was where the first Wallabies game was against South Africa. So, uh, South Africa won this 33 seven. Uh, world's number one team against the world number nine. And it went pretty much as you'd expect. Well, except for a lot of, um, Wallabies fans who somehow expected Australia to be close in this game. I don't understand why, but anyway, um, this was.
I think, your point one verse nine says it all, mate. Um, you know, we have to be realistic about it. Um Australia since 2015 has been on a on a downward slope. Um, the the lack of pathways, the lack of investment in developing pathways and developing coaches and, and players has sort of come home to roost and and you know when you, when you're getting a guy who who has to play Super Rugby or international rugby and the last game he played was a club rugby game in either Queensland or New South Wales. And and and no disrespect to those guys, but the club rugby is hardly world class club rugby and then they have to step up to Super Rugby or international rugby so that, you know, they they're not they're not gaining the experience they need. They're not gaining the skills they need before they get there. So they're learning them on the job. And you know, experience comes from mistakes And unfortunately, they're making the mistakes on on the big stage. Um, at the same time, South Africa are a fucking awesome team. They all know what they're doing. They've got a really good game plan. Tony Brown has come in. He's expanded their play. So it's it's moved from a you know eight forwards powering through everybody. And then a first five kicking goals to to now a threat across the park. And um they they all know what they're doing. They've got lots of caps. They they have invested in players. They've invested in a game plan and they're now reaping the rewards of that. So I, I hated the score. I hated the way it went. But at the end of the day, I don't think I was that surprised, to be honest.
Yeah, I wasn't surprised either. And and the other thing that people don't mention enough is their defense is brilliant and stifling and just kills anything you try. It's just on top of you constantly and just doesn't give you any room. If you're not on top of your game, you're just going to get smashed. And I.
Think.
Yeah, you're right. And I think that the biggest challenge and they did it a little bit in the in the second game, um, where they held out a little bit better. But the key to beating us, the key to beating South Africa is how do you beat that rush defense. Um, and and you know look rush defense is pretty awesome. But it can be beaten. It relies on an incredibly fast, uh, movement of the ball from the ruck. And it means that you hit the ruck and before the team has a chance to get back and set themselves for the next defensive line, the ball's already gone. So they're still moving back as the attack is coming in. Um, and I think that one of the problems that Australia had in these two games is that the delivery of the ball from the halfback was incredibly slow. They seem to have a you know, I want to pass the ball to this guy and if this guy isn't there, then I'll hold the ball until he is there. All that's doing is giving the defense time to reset, and I think they need to get past that. And I think a huge challenge for Joe and his team is that creation of speed so that you can break up that rush defence and in fact, not Joe and his team now. It's now razor and his team obviously for the next two games.
Yeah.
Well I think with the Australian halfbacks I mean we're talking about speed from the base of the ruck. You with Gordon or White who are more steady with a better pass, or you go for the speed of Tate and you, you lose a bit on passing.
Yeah.
Not maybe pass I ever threw but but not as good a pass but. And but he does pick up the speed of the game, so he does. But then there's the next thing is, a lot of the time when you see our fly halves receiving the pass, they're not moving when they get the ball either.
So I know.
You know, a two.
Step thing.
It's something that has bugged me for years. You know, like when I, I only did a very short stint of coaching, um, and realized that I actually wasn't a very good coach. So I went back to refereeing. But even now, I think that, you know, if you're passing the ball in a game of rugby, you you're never passing the ball to a player unless unless you're pace, passing the ball back to a player who's going to kick it. You should always be passing the ball to where the player is going to be when he receives it. And you know, one of the one of the issues I have with Tate is that for all his speed and everything he brings to the game, a huge percentage of his passes go above, behind or at the players, which means that a receiver has to stop and get the ball before he can carry on. And I think that's a huge issue. Funnily enough, I think that, um, Queensland had started to resolve that issue by keeping the running a lot closer to the ruck, which means that Tate didn't have to pass so far. And when you look at Queensland and the way they played, um, this year and they kept the initial passes really close to the ruck, that suited Tate's play. Absolutely. Which was one of the reasons why Queensland did so well this year, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. Yeah, I think so. And I think if we can use Tate's speed at the ruck or anyone's, any halfback, speed up that ruck ball, um, and get a decent pass to someone moving onto it. I think it'll do a lot of things for the way the Wallabies play. And it's definitely worked for the Reds. And, um Yeah, yeah. More more things to say about the Wallabies second match. Again, the rain that happened in New Zealand for the All Blacks and Argentina also happened in, um, Perth on the other side of Australia. And most.
Of except it was.
Worse.
Yes. It was incredible.
The conditions there in.
Perth.
Yes, it was amazing. Um, through my stuttering screen. Um, the Wallabies again went down. This time they didn't manage to score a try. Uh, four shots on goal for for, uh, for 12 points against, uh, 30 points for South Africa. They did lose um, two second rowers, Williams and Frost. Uh, I don't know why Fesler didn't play. I never heard if he was injured or not. The the hooker, uh, Gordon was out the halfback. So it was a few changes for the Wallabies, and it brought in some problems. I think Um, they brought in Blythe instead of Frost. Um, and he does a fair bit of work, but he doesn't do much when we've got the ball. He's he's he hits a lot of rucks. He moves a lot of bodies. But his ball carrying is very limited. And if you add that to Tassano, who's as far as back rowers go, is a very small back rower. He's under 95 kilos, which I just think is too small for an international forward of any type. Um, and he does very little with the with the ball in attack. Um, you're carrying two players that only work for you in defence, and, um, it's just not enough work out of those guys, and they need to pick up that part of their game. Um, so they bought Whyte in instead of Gordon, uh, and left. Uh, McDermott on the bench and whites kicking from from hand at the base of the ruck is not as good as Gordon, so we missed out on a bit of territory there, but I think I wanted to say this structurally, Australia has some problems so we don't have we don't have good, good, great second rowers like South Africa had. We have a problem with balance in the back row, I think we're pretty good, the best we've been for a while in that back row but without Mick. Right. And I think Liam right as well I think we've, we've lost that bit of balance. If we had Liam right and Mick right with Valentini, I think it's a better balance. But I don't know if we would have done any better with those three. Um, hooker has been a problem for a long time. Uh, the guys we got are okay, but there's but there's a weight problem with our hookers as well. Halfbacks, the fly half. We've missed a whole generation of fly half sticking with the older guys that we stuck with way too long. Um, and the guys we've got coming through are in their early 20s. So somewhere along there there's there's guys from about 25 to 35 that never really got a chance to play flyhalf for Australia and never got bought through and worked with and who knows where they are. And then we look at.
Too much, too much reliance on you know um Cheika was obviously the first one at it. Dave Rennie unfortunately wasn't that much better. Um, and then of course we got Jones, who absolutely destroyed someone who looked as though he probably could have gone the right way if we'd brought him on properly. So. Yeah. Yeah, that that's that's certainly a, um, I must admit that I know there's a lot of calls for Dave Rennie, and a lot of people aren't particularly happy about the way things happened with him, and I tend to agree with them. And and certainly bringing Jones on proved to be an absolute disaster. Um, but I will say that Dave Rennie was part of the problem with the first fives. You know, he, he he gave Lolesio a game and then kicked him off. And then two days later, you know, two games later, he brought him back and then he bought Foley in. And then he tried someone else and and he kept going for this I've got to win the game. So I need to bring in without development. And and that's part of the problem with this lack of pathways. You know, you, you're actually developing people at, at the test level. I think that's one of the things that um, when you look at some of the comments that Fisher has made and some of the comments that Joe has made on the Wallabies and where they're going, and they've acknowledged that part of their job is to actually develop these players because it's not being done below international level. Um, which my only issue is whether Rugby Australia is going to have the patience to accept the fact that developing players takes time. It means you're going to have mistakes, and it means you're going to have problems as they grow and develop and whether they can accept that, um, or not. Um.
I thought I thought by halves, if the rest of the team was playing better, you could develop, you know, they could have more of a chance to develop in a team if if the rest of the team was playing better. The problem is you've got problems in other areas, like Lazio is trying to play with a centre pairing both under 100 kilos. There's no one there and and both wingers are under 100 kilos. There's no one there to bash the ball up for you now unless you there's no one there to to do a hit up. And people can say for Sammy Pais plays heavy but he's under 95 kilos. And if he hits another guy who's under 95 kilos, yeah, he plays heavy. But if he hits in another centre who's 105 to 110 kilos.
Yeah, he bounces back.
You can play as heavy as you like at that weight. You're not going to. You're not going to run through him. So when I say structurally there's problems with the Wallabies, one of them is as good as people think our centres are. They're just not big enough.
I wonder, I wonder.
I wonder though is the issue, is the issue the players and not being big enough, as you point out? Or is the issue that they're trying to play a game plan where the players haven't got the capacity or the capability to play that game plan, and maybe they need to think about the game plan a little bit more. Um, you know, I, I thought in the in that second game, as much as they lost by worse, I thought there were lots of periods in that play where the Australians actually played better, where they were keeping the ball tight. They were doing small passes to change the attack so that they're straight, so that the South African defence was under pressure. Um, they couldn't finish anything off, which was a problem. Um, I think that, um, I think Nic White had a very poor game. I think that he he reverted back to his whingeing and carrying on and and being annoying, you know, um, a penalty gets awarded and he holds the ball and walks back and wouldn't release it. And then there's a a little bit of a scrap because the South Africans wanted the ball and tried to get it off him. And and then he acted like he was, you know, I'm the person that's been attacked because they pushed me to get the ball off me. Um, to be honest, I think he's well past his use by date. I'd actually like to see, um, issak fines-leleiwasa come in. Or someone. I think that, you know, one of the problems we have, and you go to the heart to the nines are ten. Sorry. And you say, you know we haven't done that development. Where's the development? On our nines. You know, it's the same problem. Gordon. Gordon. Carter and White aren't going to get any better. They've been around far too long, and they are where they are at. So where's the young guys coming through that these guys can develop into the next level? Um, so so I think that that's also a problem. Um, but I do think that despite the losses that the Wallabies had against South Africa, I actually saw a fair bit to indicate that they're actually on a pathway that could lead to better things if they're allowed to continue.
Yes. Now, I was happy with the second game. Um, even though we lost by so much, I was happy with the second game. And the first one I could see. Not that it made a difference in the score. I could see an improvement, and I could see the continuity between the players. increase. Get better. Yep. But the structural things were the thing to me. I think we need more speed on the wings. I don't think Callaway and Wright playing in the same team as winger and fullback, no matter which way around they are. I just don't think I'd have one of them in the team, and I'd bring in someone with a bit of speed on at least one of the wings.
Yeah, I.
Must admit, I I'd bring a tool or someone like that in.
Um, yeah.
I thought Dylan Pietsch had a good game when he came on.
Yep. Yeah, he's got that speed.
I don't know how fast he is, but he's. He's seemed to go alright. Um.
Lancaster, you know, Lang Lancaster has got the speed. Um, it would have been good to see him. I think that, um, you know, I, I've said it before, I'm not a huge plan fan.
I'm with you. I'm with you on that. I don't understand why you keep bringing him back.
I think that he he I think that he he demonstrated a few times that he was actually quite good on tech, but he's always been incredibly poor on defence. And and while he, you know, runs it on the ruck and does a whole lot of things, um, there's also a number of times when the ball goes out to the centre and there's no one on the wing to pass it to because he's been running in at the ruck. So I'm not a huge fan, but, um, yeah, we'll see where it goes with him.
So yeah. So my point was that the structurally things wrong with the Wallabies that are not easy to fix in the short term, I think we have problems with.
Absolutely.
Our backs. I think we have problems with speed, which is easy enough to it's not you can't buy speed, but you're born with it. We got speed with our wings. I think we've got problems with the back three, the balance of the back three. Um, I think we've got balance with our back row is not quite right. So there's things, you know, that can be fixed but will take time. So we just need to be patient Um, I think and.
I think and I think that we need a game plan that reflects the team we have, not the team we want to have.
Yeah, I think the game plan has been pretty much pared back to to to.
They're hitting they're.
Hitting back to basics. And I think that's probably what needs to happen. Absolutely.
Yeah. So okay we'll move on. So um, New Zealand are heading to South Africa for the next two games. The first one is at Jo'burg. Yep. At the old Ellis Park at, uh, altitude set up nicely for you guys. Um, and the second one, I'm not sure where, but it doesn't really matter. There's a chance that New Zealand go to South Africa and come away with no wins. Carl.
Oh, look, I think there's every chance they come away with no wins, mate. Um, I think there's also every chance that they come away with two wins. Um, yeah, I think that, um, it'll be interesting to see what happens now. Um, with with McDonald leaving out and whether McDonald moving out will help them align better to the game plan Razer wants and they go forward. Or does McDonald moving out cause issues with, um, with people who were following his play, the team members that were following his play and now he's not there, and is that going to turn them around? And they're not going to follow a plan because they were focused on what he was saying. Um.
I haven't replaced him, have they?
No, they haven't. And I don't think they need to. They've got enough freaking coaches in there at the moment. Um, Ireland showed that South Africa is as, ah, as vulnerable as any other team. If you play the right game plan against them. And I've got a lot of confidence in the New Zealand coaching team, that they would have understood that they would have seen the vulnerabilities that South Africa have any game plan and they'll be able to take advantage of them. If they can do that, then they'll come away with wins. If they allow South Africa to dominate the game and to dominate with their forwards and their rush defence, then they'll struggle. Um, if I if I was a betting man, which I have been on occasions, then um, I would be putting my money on one win. One loss. Um, I don't think New Zealand will lose both games, but I also don't expect them to win both games either. But I think all three possibilities could easily happen over there because both of the teams are actually quite close. Both of the teams have a lot of weaknesses, and it'll come down to the smart coaching and the team that can come up with the right game plan.
Okay, well.
We pretty much know what South Africa's game plan is going to be, so it'd be interesting because it's the same one they've tried out for the last few years.
Yeah, but what will.
Be interesting will be whether they're allowed to get away with the things that they do to allow their game plan to work. You know, um, as soon as their forwards get tired, someone sits down and, you know, four water boys come on and pass information from fucking crazy about what they need to do next and what's going wrong and everything. And I think if if the referee controls that, um, because I think, I think South Africa get away with far too much of that sort of stuff, you know. Um, so-and-so's injured. We've got to stop the play. You actually don't. If he's not interfering with the play, carry on with the game and let the team management sort out that fat prick sitting down on the fucking sideline. He can't do his job properly. Um, I think that, um, South Africa get away with far too much gameplay, and I think that we need the referees to step up and stop that because it doesn't create a level, level playing field. And and, you know, that's what we want. You know, the rules are design of the game and everything is about a level playing field for both teams. And South Africa are getting away with far too much at the moment I think.
Yeah.
Yeah I think I agree with that, mate. And um, it was interesting that, um, I can't remember who the ref was last week. Williams.
Yeah. Williams. Yeah.
Yeah. Had had a go at the Water Boys for South Africa last week in the first half, but then he never said anything about it the rest of the game.
So yeah. Yeah I saw.
That in the first half. And I thought God I hope this continues. And then it didn't. And I was a little bit disappointed to be honest. Um, because I think again, you know, but then again, you know, if you're a referee and you know that, you know, if you stuff it up, you're going to get a two hour video clip with Erasmus bloody whingeing like a crybaby. Sook that he is, then. Yeah. You know, I think it's probably fair enough.
Yeah.
So, uh, the Wallabies are heading to Argentina for the next few games. Um, I didn't have a look at where the first game was, but again, doesn't really matter. You're going to play where you play. Um, so Argentina ranked sixth in the world. Um, Wallabies are ranked nine, as I said before. Karl, do you think the Wallabies have a chance of taking a game off Argentina in Argentina?
Absolutely.
With the crowd.
Support? Yeah.
No, absolutely. Um, I think that, um, Argentina have a really good tight five.
Um, sorry.
They have a, they have a, they have a couple of good loose forwards. But the only thing I'd say against them is that they're very predictable in the way they play. Yeah. And I think that, um, if you can disrupt their game plan. You know, if you if you disrupt the the the South African game plan, um, they've actually got a really good coaching team who can change it slightly and just come back at you again. But I think that if you disrupt the Argentinian game plan early, they struggle to change. And I think that you can get on top of them that way. And I think that's what New Zealand did in that second, second game. They disrupted what what Argentina were doing and Argentina weren't weren't able to adapt on the ground. So I think that if Australia goes in there, if they disrupt their game plan, they get they get an early head up. I think they can absolutely carry on through and take that to the win. Um, is it they're going to need some things to go their way. Absolutely. They're going to have to hope that, um, we don't lose any more bloody front row injuries. Um, but I think that, yeah, they they could do it.
Now, the good news is that Tupou has been named and should be available. Bell. So our best two props are available. Yep. Frost should be back and Williams should be back. The second rowers. I don't, you know, um, I'm not convinced about Williams yet. He's a small second rower and lightweight. Um, and, uh, Gordon should be back.
Um. Yep.
So we should be able to. We still haven't got Mick, right? Which is a bit of a worry. So we're still running around with maybe Tizzano at openside flanker. So we should be better on the forwards. And I know.
I.
Know you're a you're a one eyed read supporter as much as I am a one eyed cane supporter, but I, I don't think Harry Wilson is the right number eight.
Uh, no.
I agree mate. If, if, if we had a better option at six, I think Valentina would be the eight every day of the week. I think the the problem is that I think that's the best combination we've got at the moment So if Liam Wright was available, I'm just struggling to think of a better combo. But maybe they'll come up with one. Yeah, with the players. I mean with with Wright. Liam Wright and uh, and.
Wright at.
Six and Velutini at, at eight and McBride at seven is a was a fantastic loose forward trio. They all understood their game plan. They all could play the role that they needed to play. And that was that showed. No. And I think that is one thing that's missing with both of those too often, you know, it comes back to the the lack of depth that we see in Australia at the moment because of the lack of pathways, um, that aren't producing enough players so that when we get someone injured, we, we actually haven't got that, you know, person to come back.
Um, missing that absolute workhorse that Liam Wright was and that lineup target that he is.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, and you know Harry Wilson tries hard. He gives it a 100%. I won't take that any way away from him, but he just seems a little bit less effective on the ground. He doesn't. He doesn't win the contest in defense. He doesn't win the contest in attack, not like Liam Wright does. And I think that's.
He doesn't seem.
To move his point of um.
And he's not big enough and he's not big enough to not move it.
Yeah. So that's you know, I mean he. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. And and he, he's very one dimensional. And I think, um, when you have a one dimensional player like him, it's, it's a lot easier to defend against. So yeah, I think, I think I, I think Australia can win. I think they can absolutely win one game. Um, and I'll be very disappointed if they didn't win at least one. Can they win both of them? Um, I think that's a little bit harder, but, um, I, I it's one of those things. It's quite interesting the way they've done the Rugby Championship this year. You know, two teams, you know both teams are playing another team two games away. And then the third game they're playing, you know they play two two games at home against the same opponent. They played two games away against the same opponent. And then the next one they do a home and away. And and it's really created an imbalance in how the games might go. You know, um, Argentina at home, I think I think that home support is going to help them a lot. And you've got two games where they've got home support, so winning two games would be pretty hard. I would be very disappointed if they didn't win at least one. Um, and I'd be absolutely rapt if they won both of them, which, if things go their way, they could absolutely do.
Yeah. The one thing in the, um, the Wallabies favour is that that the Argentinian defence is not the not the South African defence is not that.
No. They um and you know, if they if they look at what New Zealand did in that second game, they, they shut New Zealand showed the way how to break that defence open. And if they can do the same thing then, then yeah good on them.
Yeah.
So if I as I was saying before, if I was uh, Joe Schmidt, I'd be putting some more pace on the wings. I'd be trying to put, uh, something a heavy hitter in at 12. Uh, it's probably going to end up paying me Stewart at 12 to replace by Sammy because he's injured.
And I'm not unhappy with that. You know, I, I know.
That he's had a good season.
Yeah Hamish had a good season, I think I think the other thing with Hamish where he's has got it over some of the other players, is that he, he picks the time and place to pass better than perhaps some of those other players do. Um, he's, he's the sort of player that could put it into space Absolutely. Um, which Paisami did well, a couple of times, um, against Wales and in Georgia, he didn't do it too badly, but he absolutely struggled to do it against South Africa. And I think that maybe, um, maybe Stuart can do that a little bit better, but, um, yeah, I guess we'll see.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it. I think Australia can definitely win one or both games in, um, South America, but it'd be interesting to see how well they do. Um, so moving on again. Um, usually we do shouting at clouds, but, uh, Carl and I have both decided that we're not that angry this week, so, um.
No rugby to be angry at, mate.
Yeah. So we'd, um.
We decided to talk about an incident that happened in the first, uh, Argentina All Black game where, um. And I can't remember the name. One of the Argentinian pops managed to run into Nathan blackout his shoulder with his head.
Ethan.
Blackadder.
Ethan. Sorry. The younger Blackadder. Um. And, um. Angus. Gardner. Um. As we've seen time and time again, it's been a yellow card for years. Similar things have been yellow carded over and over again, and we've always felt sorry for the player doing the tackling, because all he's done is stood there and someone's run into him with their heads, and they've got ten minutes in the bin. In this case, Angus Gardner has said that the the South American prop has done it to himself and and it wasn't Blackadder's fault. So I just thought I'd ask Karl, um, if he agreed with what Angus Gardner, um, thought about the incident and, uh, where it comes from a referee's point of view.
Well, obviously, as a biased, um, All Black supporter, I absolutely agree with any decision that goes in New Zealand's favour.
Um.
So yes, I think so if you look at the if you look at the process that the referee goes through, so has head contact occurred? Yes. No. Yes. There was head contact. The next part of it, was there any foul play? If there is a player at fault, then you go through the degree of danger and talk about low, high etc. if you say no, then you carry on. Now Gus, in this stage, his his view was that there was no foul play. And and when you when you talk about it so his, his, his reasoning and um, he felt that the head contact was initiated by the ball carrier, not the defender, because Blackadder came in, he was down waiting for him. And then the Argentinian player ducked down and led with his head. Now, when When the head contact thing came out, there was a there was a huge uproar across all of the sites about rugby saying that, you know, why is it the defender's fault when it's the attacker who's bending over and leading with his head? And, um, in this one, Gardner justified his decision. He said that Ethan Blackadder was backing away. The Argentinian led with his head. His head, his head contacted um Blackadder's shoulder. And there was a low degree, a very low degree of danger. So even if he had gone to being Blackadder's fault, it would have only been a penalty. But because he he felt that the head contact was initiated by the Argentinian player, not the All Black player. That's why he let it go. Um, I thought it was actually what we've been wanting to see. Um, I actually think the biggest controversy over all of this is that for so many people around the world, it's. It's just another all black getting away with bloody being illegal. Because that's what you guys all think we do all the time anyway. Um, so, you know, if you, if you have a look at, um, you know, we can go back to Richie McCaw, we can go back to any of the players. And, and it was always this big conspiracy theory about how the All Blacks get the, uh, you know, get, get the, get the, the lay of the land from all of the referees around the world because in referee land somewhere there's, there's a, um, there's a decree that that they're not allowed to to penalize the All Blacks. Um, but I thought I thought it was good refereeing. I thought, you know, he he looked at it, he said, no, it's the argentinian's fault. Low degree of danger. No one got hurt. Crack on with the game. In fact, to be honest, what I thought he missed out on on that one was, um, Alb actually came in from the side and he could have could have probably been penalised for entering from the side, but everyone was so focused on the head contact they let it go.
Yeah.
I think the other thing that people go off about, there was a similar tackle in the Wallaby South African game that I think, I think it was a Wallaby South Africa, and I can't remember who it was getting compared to another tackle, and that was yellow carded and it was a very similar situation. But you see very similar tackles get yellow carded constantly. Yeah. It brings in another area where things are a bit iffy. You know, it's not a clear cut. This is a yellow card and this isn't.
No look, look. And and this is the one I keep putting on. And I'm not sure if it's coming out in the in the referee corner when I do the odd thing, you know, so many decisions that a referee makes are subjective. I would I would suggest that 70% of the decisions a referee makes on a field are subjective, because they're all based on what they see at the time and how they feel and their bias and all this other thing. Um, I, I think that the push by World Rugby to reduce head contact has been absolutely correct. I think that, um, what they've bought into the club level and below about the tackle below the sternum is, is brilliant. I think that's a really good move. Um, but I think that there's always bits and pieces on that that are going to be subjective. And depending on what you see and where you are and what your bias is and who team you support, you'll look at it one way and someone else will look at it the other way. And, um, we're always we're always going to get at. But but when you Angus Gardner, when you follow what he said, you might not agree with his decision, but at least you can understand why he made that decision. And so you have to go along with that. He's the referee on the ground. He makes a decision based on those things. Whether you think he was right or wrong is actually immaterial, but he explained it. So I think you just have to live with those sorts of things.
Yeah.
And when you compare that to Callaway picking up the South African nine by the waist and carrying around a bit and then dropping him on his head, you know, that's a clear yellow. So yeah.
Yeah. You know it was.
Just that was just dum dum dum.
So yeah.
And and and look you know when he went into that tackle you could see his intent wasn't to lift the halfback. But by the time he got there and went in and then with everyone around the halfback was up. And when you're in that position as a player, you have to say, okay, I can't drop him on a head, I have to lower him down on his feet, otherwise I'm going to get penalized. You just have to do it, you know? Yeah. I think the whole thing about the head contact and everything else is that it requires players and coaches to sort their technique out different. Um, it's interesting, like, um, one of the ones that we, we don't get so many complaints about so many these days is this, you know, player not rolling away. A guy goes into a tackle, he doesn't quite time it right. He gets stuck on the other side. He can't move. There's nothing he can do. But he gets penalised for not rolling and everyone accepts it. You know, because we've known for the last five years now that if you go into a tackle, you have to ensure that you don't land on the wrong side. And if you do, you have to roll east and west to get out of the way or you're going to get penalised. But we still see players trapped, unable to move because of the the different, you know, variability that happens in a game and things just occur. They get penalised for not rolling when they can't move. No one complains because we've seen it happen over a number of years now and it's accepted as part of the game. And I think that, you know, 2 or 3 years time we're going to accept this head contact stuff in the same sort of way. Yep. We know it was an accident. No one went in. No one went on the field saying, I'm going to smack number ten in the head and I'm going to knock him out. No one says that, but they get it wrong and it happens and they get penalised, red carded. And people say, yep, that's part of the game.
Well, you're going to wonder, like I saw a statistic where the Wallabies have had something like 43 cards in 45 matches or something.
Yeah.
And you've got to wonder what what they're thinking. Yeah I know they don't go in looking for cards. So what's happening?
Um, yeah.
Look, some of it's luck.
You know.
It must be just struggling to keep up with better teams or something like that, I don't know.
Look when you're under pressure, especially when when you're in the red zone on defense, you are going to push the penalty line because you're trying to keep players out. But you know, if you you have a look. Um, in the first game, Australia had 15 penalties against them. In the second game they had 11. Um and South Africa had 12 and ten. So so in the second game Australia had one more penalty than uh than South Africa. And the first game they had three more penalties. But Australia had but South Africa had three yellow cards which Australia you know, only had one. Um and then when you look at Argentina and New Zealand, Argentina had 13 and 11. So they had two less than Australia in the first game and the same amount in the second game. And and New Zealand had three less and one less. You know the difference isn't huge in 40 minutes. In the second game, Argentina had one more penalty than South Africa and New Zealand and the same as Argentina. And yet Australia is being being told they got bad discipline. I'm not sure that's 100% correct mate.
Yeah, yeah. But because.
They're losing, people are looking for this as an issue.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think the penalties are the issue. I think I think dumb penalties are an issue you know. Yeah. Callaway lifting someone up knowing he's off the ground, knowing he's not allowed to put him on his head or his back or he's going to get yellow or red carded and then doing it anyway. Yeah that's dumb. I've lifted him up. I've got to put him down safely. Crack on with the same as in the line out, you know. Yeah. You can test in the line out and and someone's up in the air. You've got to let them down on the ground You can't rush and take his feet. You can't grab his legs out from underneath him. So he falls on the ground and then he jumps down on his face with your knees, you know? 20 years ago we were doing that. But you don't do that now.
Yeah.
I think that's is that you might if you had enough.
Yeah, I've had enough.
I can't have dinner, mate.
Yeah.
Okay, so that's about us for this week. We'll be back. Uh, probably next Sunday or Monday. We'll do a review of the two Rugby Championship games next weekend. The drop kick off boys will be, uh, out sometime during the week when the teams are announced to do something. We've done a bit of a swap of roles. They're going to do the previews and we're going to do the reviews for a while. So, um, yeah, thanks for listening. If you're still with us, and we'll catch you next week. See you. Karl.
Cheers, man.
Thanks much.
You don't know anything about rugby.
Don't talk. Regan. Drop goal from Larkham Australian Greig forward. They've got the advantage.
Worst press conference.
Well done boys.