Good Weekend TalksIn this episode, we speak with retired Australian netball champion and TV presenter Liz Ellis, who was recently appointed chair of Netball Australia, following a series of crises. Netball was riven with issues last year, including a team departing the national league, a pay dispute with players, and the loss of critical national funding.
Hosting the conversation - about the many problems facing an otherwise popular sport that's played by millions of women and girls (and, increasingly, men and boys) around the country - is The Age sports reporter Carla Jaeger.
Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Liz Ellis, the retired Australian netball champion and TV presenter was recently appointed chair of the Netball Australia Board, helping govern one of Australia's most popular sports in a difficult moment following a series of crises. Netball was riven with issues last year, including everything from problems with the sport's broadcast deal to a team, Collingwood, departing the Suncorp Super Netball league, which was itself bleeding millions of dollars. Throw in a pay dispute with players and the loss of funding from the Australian Institute of Sport, and a perfect storm seemed to be facing this game that's played by millions of women and girls around the country. And hosting this conversation is the Young Journalist of the year winner at the Quill Awards in March, who was also just announced as a finalist in the mid-year Walkley Awards for her reporting on the challenges facing netball. And that's The Age sports reporter Carla Yeager.
Thank you. Conrad. Okay. So let's. You started playing netball when you were eight. Yes. And then you were playing rep teams by the time you were 11 or 12. You've gone on to become Australia's most capped netballer you have. I have to look down at my computer to read out all of your accolades. You've got a Sports Australia Hall of Fame, you're a three time Commonwealth Games gold medallist, a captain of the diamonds, a four time MVP. The list goes on. I really want you to get really forensic with why are you so good?
Oh, why was I so good? I'm not very good anymore, Carla. I've tried, I try, I do stuff with my. I coach a little under 13 team in Ballina, and I try and do drills with them and it really hurts. I'm just not cut out for netball anymore. But I am 51, you know, so I've given the body a bit of a flogging. I think I was good when I was, I wasn't always good. I started out very enthusiastic and, you know, enthusiastic is a euphemism for tries hard but lacks a little bit. So super enthusiastic. Spent a lot of time on my butt and on my knees in my first couple of years trying to get these long limbs moving, but the thing that I think eventually set me apart was, yeah, I had a modicum of skill, but I've got a massive work ethic and I'm really competitive, so I always wanted to test, even from a young age. I wanted to test to see how good I could be. And but what sort of really motivated me when I was younger was just I wanted to make rep teams so I could play netball on Saturday and Sundays. All day like that was just so much fun. I was always at my happiest and I was a happy kid, but I was always at my happiest when I was on a netball court, playing with my friends, spending time off the court with those same friends. So you get that at a netball carnival. So what's not to like? If you get to sit around, talk, eat and then play netball? All my favourite things. So initially it was just I loved being on the court and then as I got older I learnt about work ethic and I learnt how satisfying it is to work super hard for something that you're desperate to do. And when you achieve that, and a lot of the satisfaction comes after, you don't achieve it for a little while. But I was always driven by how good can I be? And then when I was became the captain, was of the teams that I was in. How good can I influence this team to be or how good can our team be? And so it was just always that competitive drive and a huge work ethic.
Did that competitive drive did it? Was that something that you always had? Did you have to kind of um, was was that matching then to to being competitive and then having discipline, or did you have that kind of innately?
I'd never had the discipline innately. I was always competitive. I've got a sister who's 22 months younger than me, and we have competed against each other from, you know, the moment she was born, just about. And we're super close. But, you know, there's I think when siblings are close in age, then there's always that competitive sort of rivalry. So I think that competitive was innate. The competitiveness was innate. But I didn't really understand the discipline of making sure that, you know, dotted every I and cross every T. And that didn't happen until I was 18 or 19, until I went down to the AIS in Canberra. And I saw firsthand from athletes and other sports exactly what that discipline means and what is required to be world class.
Was there a moment there that really that that clicked that for you, or was it just this kind of eventual thing over that, that two year period?
Oh, there is a moment that where it clicked when I understood that I just wasn't along for the ride. So in 1991, you probably weren't even born, were you? I was not, that hurts. I was 18, there was a World Cup in Sydney and it for a lot of people it was it was the moment that put netball on the map. Wilson.
Well with almost a smile there. How can she? It's 51 a piece. Under three minutes left. New Zealand still with their noses in front because they have possession.
There were 10,000 screaming fans there. The Prime Minister was there. It was just amazing.
In all my years in sport, I've not seen a game like this in any code.
I was at the Australian Institute of Sport and we, um, had been involved in some training sessions with the diamonds in the lead up. And uh, so we went up to watch the semi-final and the final, and I'd never been to a live netball game before like that. So we went up and we watched the game, and Australia beat New Zealand in the dying seconds of the game by a goal.
30s to go. They're not in a hurry. Australia leads 5352. I just want to play it around. There's no shot clock.
Well done, Jackie Dal woods. Now that Jackie material. Typekit. Wilson. That's it. It was just.
The most amazing match. And we were on the bus on the way home and our coach Gatti was calling us all down for some one on ones just to talk through the game and what we thought, and I dropped a comment along the lines of in our conversation, we're talking about Killee DeVry, who'd been the starting goalkeeper, and then Rosie Jenky, who came on at goalkeeper and got this magnificent intercept, and and the sort of games they played and how they played. And I made a comment along the lines of, oh, wow, they're amazing. I could never be that good. Right? And that's what sort of young people say, just to almost protect yourself of I could never be that good. So I actually won't even put any effort into trying. And Gay looked at me with her steely gaze. Anyone who knows her will know this. And she said. Someone has to play goalkeeper for Australia. Elizabeth, it might as well be you. And I thought that's true. Like those women won't play goalkeeper for Australia forever. So if I knuckle down and do the hard work and get my fitness to the level, it's got to be and get my strength and my speed to the level that's got to be when, when they're ready to either retire or there's an injury or there's an opportunity, I want to be the one that's ready to go. And it was such a formative moment for me, because when someone who you really respect and who has achieved everything says it might as well be you, it sort of makes you grow into that that position and that role. So I went away and I, you know, I might have partied a little bit because I'd just turned 18 and I pulled that back and I really worked hard on my training. And within 12 months, Rosalee Jencke had suffered a back injury and I was into the team and it was a bit it might have been 18 months, but it was just an amazing moment for me to go, yeah, actually, stop stuffing around. Stop offering up excuses. Get yourself ready so that when that time comes, it might as well be me.
Um, the when I kind of I've been doing a big kind of deep dive into the archives.
Which makes me.
Nervous.
They're all good. Um, I found this that you had written a letter from the Commonwealth Games village, which was the nonlinear Kuala Lumpur Games. It was the first time netball was playing as a sport in the games. And. And your opening sentence is it's very of the time. Attempting to explain what it means to represent Australia at the Commonwealth Games is like trying to figure out whether I would be better off under Mr. Howard's GST. Frustrating, nearly impossible.
And it's oh my goodness, what a nerd.
You can tell that you were like studying law at the time.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and you go on to, to kind of explain this kind of conundrum that you're having and um, you say, so my problem is that on one hand, I'm thrilled at being part of history as a member of the Australian netball team in our first Commonwealth Games competition. It is a huge step forward for both the sport and each team member. It is a recognition of our standing as a sport and as athletes. On the other hand, I am very aware of the fact that I am here to do a job regardless of the hype, the atmosphere and the sense of occasion invoked by the Commonwealth Games. And it really, when I read this, the first thing I wanted to ask you was at this point where the future of the Commonwealth Games is, is a big question mark for you personally. What would the collapse of the games mean? How would that impact you? Oh.
It I would be devastated, but I'd be devastated for the athletes who don't get that experience. Unfortunately for netball, we're not an Olympic sport. So the Commonwealth Games are the only big multi-sport event that we get to compete in and the experience is unbelievable. It's there is so much hype and there is so much excitement, and to walk into a games village where there are athletes from all over the world, all different sports. It is an amazing experience that really informs your worldview to a degree. You know, back in, in Kuala Lumpur in 1998, we we walked into the Athletes Village. The second time we were coming back from training, and Sachin Tendulkar was going through security just in front of me. And I was like, wow, we are we are surrounded by people who are who are so well known and such superstars, yet we're all just going through security. And when I look back now, you know, that was pre the World Trade Center, um terrorism incident. So you know the world was a different place. Security wasn't anything like it is now. It was everything was very relaxed. And you know it was an amazing experience. So I would be devastated. But I'd be devastated, mainly for the athletes who miss out, regardless of whether it's netball or any other sport. The Commonwealth Games are, you know, they're regarded as a friendly games. And, you know, for netball they are one of our pinnacle events. So to have that opportunity not be made available to our athletes, I'd be super sad for them. And then from a wider point of view, taking a broader view of sport, I think what people don't understand and what I've been at pains to explain about the Commonwealth Games is if you're an Australian athlete in any sport and you go to the Olympics, it is such a huge step up that you're almost set up to fail. If you haven't had a proper lead in, and the Commonwealth Games were a really good stepping stone, so it's not as big as the Olympics, there's not as much hype. So you get there, not as much pressure. You can figure out how you respond in different environments. And then when it comes time to go the Olympics, you're a bit battle hardened and you've been there and done that and you know what to expect. So the Commonwealth Games are actually a really important component of, you know, talent development in Australia for for Olympic sports. But for us, like it's the one moment that we get to be part of something bigger. So yeah, I would be devastated if the Commonwealth Games collapsed.
More broadly about what it might mean for netball. As you said, it's it's a pinnacle event for the sport and it really it's it's the one that really puts it at the. The world stage, the likelihood of Nepal becoming an Olympic sport seems pretty slim. How will that impact it? Will that change the, you know, its national interest or its impact on?
Look, the Olympics would be a nice to have if we could, um, if we could get ourselves to that point. Um. I'm only two weeks into the chair role at Netball Australia, so I actually don't know, you know, if there have been discussions and where they're at, that's something for the future. But I actually think, um, you know, if we get fixated on that, you're fixated on something that gives you great coverage. Once every four years we have the opportunity, we've got a great footprint through Super Netball, which gives us really good coverage week in, week out. And our athletes get to compete in the world's best netball league week in, week out. I actually think we're far better off looking to what we've got here, rather than getting fixated on what we don't have. Let's really focus on what we do have and make it as good as it can be. Then we've got the World Cup, which is a pinnacle event every four years. So we still get our our pinnacle event, and it is one of the biggest women's standalone sporting events in the world. So I'd love to really consolidate where we are now to make sure that we've got content that people can see year round every year.
Um, and just for the listeners, qualifying for the Olympics, uh, netball can't be a sport at the moment because it doesn't have an elite male level.
Yeah, I think so. That's my understanding. But I don't want to sort of say, yeah, that's right. Uh, until I actually go and have a good look at the file and get my head around the way.
Yeah, sure. I think, and that's a very broad. Yeah, that's a whole nother podcast, all of the podcast.
And hopefully in a couple of years time I'm talking to you going, well yeah. Okay. So we've got this awesome Super Netball competition. We've got international matches. We've got the we had the World Cup. It was an amazing success. Uh, and now we're focusing on the Olympics. You know, that's that's sort of where I'd like to get to. But you know our World Cup is amazing. It's coming up in 2027. It's the centenary of the sport in Australia in 2027. We've got this awesome opportunity to have our diamonds moment after, you know, the Matildas had their moment at the World Cup, which was just awesome and it really showed people what women's sport can be. You know, I want us to have 50,000 people at the final in Sydney. So we've got to figure out a way to do that, to have our moment.
And I was looking before the diamonds have nearly won every netball championship since I started in 1963.
It's pretty amazing, isn't it? And, you know, our Netball World Cup, the fact that it's been going on since 1963 and we've had these amazing pioneers, these women who paid their own way. And, you know, when I love hearing them talk, you know, they caught ships to England back in the day and played in World Cups air. And they trained on the ship. And when they got when they didn't like what their coach was making them do, they lost. They deliberately threw the balls overboard. And so they've all got these amazing stories that I'm desperate for the whole netball community to hear and understand because they're, you know, they were pioneers of our sport.
I am really interested to hear Nepal's unique position of being a solely female sport. What are the impacts of that, both positively and negatively?
Yeah. Look, I think there's a lot of talk about the negative stuff. You know, we don't have a big brother sport to help to finance us and to allow us to get on our feet. So we've always had to just grow really slowly. And we haven't had the opportunity for that exponential growth that's been backed by, uh, you know, a male sport counterpart who can fund us. So, you know, that's got its downsides. I think the upside of that is that netball is a place where women learn to lead, and we are uniquely so. So when I was a kid, every leader that I saw in my sport was female from, you know, Sheila Arthur, who got me on the court in the first place and was the president of my local club to, you know, a woman called Jean Pierre who was the president of Hawkesbury Netball, you know, and then as I as I went along the line, the presidents of the state bodies were women. The chair of Netball Australia was a woman. The head coaches were women. So netball is a place that is really unique. It's a unique place where women are learn to lead. We learn to communication and teamwork and resilience in a place with other women. And so I think that's a really, um, that's a massive sort of advantage that we've got that we probably don't trumpet enough. And sure, there are downsides to being the only standalone female sport in Australia with its own national league that's self-funded. So there are there are some downsides, but by gosh, it gives us some upsides.
The thing that has come up for me, and I'm really interested to hear what you think of this, that it's always had this clean cut image, you know, back in 2002 that Pam Smith, she was the then Netball Australia boss, that was a crucial part of Nepal's kind of strategy of having this wholesome image to commercialize it. How was that frustrating as a player that you know that you couldn't you couldn't even mouth swearing without getting told off or in trouble? Yeah. Oh, look. Yeah.
And I did push those boundaries, I must admit. And, um, we were probably fairly fortunate that there were there was no social media back in the day as well. Maybe we weren't as wholesome as we like to think we were. But I will say that, uh, I would love to see our athletes have the freedom to be more bold, but we've got to think carefully about how we do that, because we do have this really clean cut image, and it is attractive to commercial partners. You know, I've had commercial partners in the past say to me, I never worry that I'm going to get a call about a netballer on a Sunday morning from or, you know, of all the sports that I sponsor, I don't worry about netball in that regard.
Why do you think it is? Why why does netball, you know, have that reputation?
I don't really know. But, you know, it might be that, um, we've always had to be, um, we've always had to, to get whatever we want. We've always had to be twice as good as perhaps our male athletes in terms of being role models and being accountable. And the sport has always played a really good game of making sure that we educate our athletes to be respectable and responsible and, you know, show respect to your opposition and and to your umpires. And, you know, you don't see players going off their head at match officials and you don't see players, you know, um, you know, behaving poorly and getting into fights on court very often. You know, certainly there's push and shove, but I think, you know, I think there's there's room for and for us to grow. But part of that is play is being able to tell their own story. And we've got to enable their storytelling so that people can understand what's their life like away from the netball court, what drives them, what's their back story. And in Super Netball at the moment, we've got some amazing back stories because we have athletes from all across the world with really different experiences growing up. We've got to tell that story better and then we've got to allow them to express themselves. Now that might be on socials, it might be on the court, you know, there might be athletes and we don't know this who have a really burning desire to stand up and and say something. Well, we've got to enable that. And I think you can be really careful about generating controversy. And I know we're on a podcast, so you can't see my inverted commas here. Um, and encouraging poor behaviour. Right. And there's a difference. And I think we can have controversy and have differences of opinions, but still maintain our image as a, as a good sport to invest in, as a, as a sure bet to invest in. So that's about finding our feet. And it is about giving the athletes the freedom. We don't want cookie cutter athletes who are all the same, especially in this day and age where people don't follow leagues or teams so much anymore. They follow athletes. So we've got to allow our athletes to freedom to show who they really are and let people become their fans.
Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And the one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is I think there is something, um, you know, that that wholesome ness, I think is ingrained in the fact that it's predominantly women or is women. Do you think that that had an impact in the intensity of the backlash and the scrutiny that came following the Hancock Prospecting?
Yeah, I don't know.
Just to jump in for the for the listeners, there was a the logo dispute back in 2022. Um, and it saw Gina Rinehart pull $15 million of sponsorship after a player, uh, the team did not want to wear the logo because of, uh, historical comments about, um, indigenous people in Australia and those those.
Uh, it was raised by a First Nations player in the diamond. So, you know, I think what we saw there was the diamonds having their values and living them very strongly. And that's something that corporations and fans want to be a part of. Right. Because when you look at your teams, you want to see their values. Um, I don't know. You know, I was I was in a caravan in Western Australia during that time and I sort of saw things second and third hand, and I was just so sad that this was happening to our sport. When, you know, I look at our athletes and they're they're just amazing. I look at our sport and it's such a brilliant place for people to be. And I say people deliberately because historically it's been a female sport. But we are the fastest growing male participation sport in the country. So, you know, we need to articulate very clearly about, um, where men and boys fit into our sport and while still keeping it as a really great space for women and girls. And I think we can do that. And I think, you know, that's, that's part of, of, of the sport's challenge. But yeah, look, I just, I think that whole, um, that whole period around. The Hancock Prospecting and, um, you know, there was backlash, but there was also a lot of support for the players from the general public. So, you know, it probably just speaks to the fact that we need to be a bit better at our sport about just, um, ensuring something like that never happens again. And we're really clear about when we go into partnerships, why we're there, um, bringing the players along with us. And I think what we saw last year, there was a massive dispute between Netball Australia and the players. And, you know, hopefully we can spend this year really setting the ground rules about how we engage with players to make sure that, you know, we consider them, that they're comfortable and there is a bit of work to be done, um.
On that. So you have been chair of Netball Australia for two weeks.
We have 20 minutes. 20 minutes? Yes, two weeks. It's been a long two weeks, I'm sure.
Uh, and I kind of, you know, you last year, in the midst of the crisis and I'll get into the detail of what that looked like. Um, but you were one of the sport's biggest critics. Um, and so I really I really want to, you know, what it's like being on the side to give listeners a bit of a summary. I would say that it came to a head initially when the Collingwood Magpies left the Super Netball league, and the.
Netball world is in a panic this morning, reportedly with news the Collingwood Magpies are in danger of collapse.
The pies netball department is currently under review, with challenges both on and off the court.
Five weeks to go in the season and no women's pay deal in in place. Collingwood decide it all might be a bit too hard, a bit too expensive and Netball Australia just a bit too poorly run to stick around. I would say that with now placing careers in jeopardy and an eight team competition, this is poor by Collingwood. It costs less than $3 million to run, which.
Resulted in criticism against Netball Australia from players and Collingwood. There was concerns about Netball's broadcast partner Foxtel, that there was that, that they felt that Nepal had a lack of strategy to grow the game. The sport then lost $18 million in federal funding money promised to the sport, because it failed to convince the government it would make good use of that money. And then all of this against a really, really nasty pay dispute between Australia's Netballers and the sport. Um, you know that that left players sleeping in their cars and, um, moving back home. Um, and then it amounted to the resignation of Kelly Ryan, who's a former AFL executive. Uh, she left in December. And then the next day the pay deal was done. And now we're sitting here. And your chair.
It's crazy ride.
Crazy ride. During that time, I think this was maybe two weeks before when, um, Netball Australia had sent legal notices demanding that the diamonds attend the Nipple Awards. Um, which was a kind of an unprecedented, uh, thing. And it was it was widely criticized. Uh, you were on the project and you, uh, said that you thought that the the relationship between the players and the administration become so poisoned, you wondered if any meaningful deal could get done. How is it now seeing here we've got the deal done there. There's a lot of. Work that has happened over the last few months to repair relationships. How are those wounds? How is it going?
Oh, there is no doubt that there are scars and there's still trauma. Trauma in the system. Um, I think the change of leadership though. So we've got a new CEO and I'm in as a new chair. Um, and there's a couple of other new board members. Gabrielle Upton is new on the board as well. Um, she's a former attorney general in the New South Wales government. So there is a real sense of change around around that netball HQ. But it's not that's not enough. There's got to be a change in, um, or a repair of the relationship between Netball Australia and the players, and that's an ongoing sort of process. Um, Stacey West and Kath Williams. Kath is a CEO of the Players Association. Stacey West is our new CEO. They have they've known each other for a long time. At the moment in these key positions, there's people who all played at about the same time. So Kath Harby-williams is one of my diamonds team mates. Stacey West played for the Vixens. When Catherine and I were playing, uh, Catherine was for the playing for the Thunderbirds. I was playing for the Swifts. So we know the system and we have a, we have a prior relationship. And so that brings with it a degree of trust. Uh, but there's also, um, some work that's got to be done between Netball Australia and the member organisations and the states. We've got to show that we're listening to them. So, you know, I'm not going to lie, I didn't I didn't want to come out and just be part of the problem. Right. And but eventually I made comment publicly when, um, the players were handed that legal letter and, um, I had they'd forgotten netball Australia had forgotten to invite me to the awards night, which was awkward, because the awards night is to give the Liz Ellis diamond and I. And by the time someone rang me, it was a week or two before and I'd committed to something else on that night, so I just couldn't go. And again, I'd sort of held council on that because I thought, I don't I don't want to be out there whingeing. But then when the players got that legal letter, I thought, actually, I have to, I have to speak because. Um, it's my duty to do so because I can see there are so many issues in the sport, and I was worried about what was going to happen to the sport. So I spoke out and I did it in a really considered fashion. And as you know, Carla, I put it on a post on my Instagram page that I, I sweated over every single word because I wanted to be very clear that that what I was saying was exactly what I meant to say, and it wasn't going to be interpreted through, with all due respect, another journalist or anybody else. And there was a few other things that happened, and you could just see the players. They were they were so determined. To get to where they felt was fair. And, um, you know, I just felt I had to I had to make a stand for my sport. And I know this sounds like a, like a long answer, but fast forward now, and I'm the chair. I think it gives us a bit of space as a sport to start to heal that trauma and to move forward and start to talk about the opportunities for the sport. And fundamentally, the sport is is a great sport. There are hundreds of thousands of people who get out there on a Saturday and play netball and love it and take all the great things away from our sport that I talked about before teamwork, resilience, leadership, communication, all that sort of stuff. There are women. And it's predominantly, predominantly women who run netball associations on a on a weekend who you know, I had a conversation with Angus Houston a few years ago and he said to me, the women who run netball associations could run the army. And, you know, they do a great job. And now I want Netball Australia's leadership to reflect that and to reflect the passion for the sport and the desire to see it, you know, go places. So I guess the short answer is, um, it was there is a lot of trauma still left from last year, but we are on a process. We're on a road at the moment that I think allows us to gradually address that, and that's a process, right? It's not me. Becoming chair doesn't fix everything. Stacey West becoming the new CEO doesn't fix everything, but it allows us to address it with really clear eyes and go, okay, how do we make sure this never happens again?
And there must be an element of trust there that from the players that you have spoken against what happened in the dispute last year that now you're coming in, that you're not, you know, that you have you've seen them and you know, you're they're kind of bringing someone on the outside in.
Yeah. And and so, you know, the players are going through their diamond CPA negotiation at the moment. And. You know, now I sit within the business, I can't say, ah, you guys deserve everything you ask for. I just can't say that. But there is an element of trust. So they'll trust Stacey. She's an ex player, but she's also the CEO of a business that's got to run. I'm an ex player, but I'm the chair of a business that's got to run. We've got a $4.2 million debt that we've got to pay down by August next year. So. What? I would love to have the diamonds be paid a fortune, but we've got to balance it up against the needs of the business. There is also the needs of the grassroots that we've got to meet as well. So there's a bit going on, but I think that the key word that you use there is trust. And we we want to recompense our players as much as we can because they are brilliant. They are one of the greatest assets that the sport has, and we need to tell their story. We need to pay them as much as we possibly can to reward them for what they do, and we need to commercialise them.
Mhm.
You've spoken a lot over the years about, um being a control freak, and it seems to be something that you've used on top of that, that, you know, that discipline that you say you learnt at the AIS. You brought yourself back from a career ending injury in 2007, but by seemingly just really disciplining on your rehab. What was it like then to to have that, you know, the control and being able to make decisions to be on the outside of the crisis last year and not. I like that you had a lot of the solutions and things that you knew needed to be done, but not being able to do a thing, it.
Was frustrating, and it was hard because I didn't want to damage the sport. Right. And I had lots of people come to me and say, you need to talk about this. You need to speak out. You need to do that. You know, all the different issues. And, you know, like when I stopped commentating at the end of 2021, I got in my caravan with my family and we went around Australia for a year, and I was really content to be a netball fan and a netball mum, and to coach my little team in Ballina and to take my daughter to games, and I thought, this is going to be great. Like I can really enjoy the sport I love with my kids and. And it can go on. And one day I'd like to to be on the board and, you know, contribute. But I need a bit of time out from the game. And but then last year, as you know, as we saw the crisis, crises happen, um, I never thought I had I had the solutions and I still don't have all the solutions. But what I've got, I think, from my playing career, is the ability to get people to work out what the solutions are. And, you know, that was a skill that Julie Fitzgerald really taught me. You know, you look at her, she's had this amazing coaching career, but she's never played netball. Anything beyond, I think, local B-grade. But what she does as a coach is she gets the best of everyone around her, so she doesn't think that she's got to have all the solutions. She'll go to her players and get their input and they'll give her the solutions and then they own the solution. So when I sat on the outside last year, I started to think, I've got all these great relationships, both within the sport and with people outside the sport who want to help the sport. If I can, if I can get in and become a board member, then I can be part of that, that process. And I'm very clear that if I sat on the outside and, you know, um, whack the board last year and then didn't put up my hand to do something about it, I simply become a whingeing athlete. Who or whingy ex athlete, um, with relevant deprivation syndrome. Right. I become someone who is just playing the artist. It's on the outside, has a whinge, has a whack, and actually doesn't do anything about it. So sitting on the board of of Netball Australia and being the chair doesn't suit my family life. It doesn't suit where my kids are at. It doesn't suit, you know, my husband, but it is. Netball is something that I it's a sport that I owe so much to. And at this moment, I feel it's probably the right time for me to get in and offer what I can and to help reset us so that, you know, in we have a great World Cup in 2027, we have a thriving Super Netball competition. We have participation records being broken. We have a clear space for men and boys. We really value everyone who plays the game from, you know, Netsec go right up until the diamonds. We invest in our coaches, our umpires, our administrators and we build a real netball nation. And so that's what I'm sort of got my head around now. And focusing on.
The $1 million question.
Is that all because we probably need more 4.2 million. 4.2 would be a good start.
Uh, Neville is famously Australia's most popular sport for girls and women. It's played. It's I think the total participation is 1.8 million, including boys and men. A national team. The diamonds are the world's best netball team ever. Why has it never commercialized itself?
That is a $4.2 million question. It's probably a $20 million question. Actually. I don't know that it's never commercialized itself, because I think when you look at the revenue, our revenue has grown over the last few years, you know, you know, we used to be a $10 million company. We are now $40 million business. Um, the netball ecosystem in Australia is worth $90 million and growing. That was back in 2020 right when I did the state of the game reviews. It is a big business. We have commercialized the sport, but we haven't been able to commercialize it to the point where we can pump money back into grassroots and down through the system and invest in our people, as much as I would like to. So we are really, you know, Netball Australia has turned a profit now for the last two years. Mhm. Um, uh, I think uh 200 and something thousand dollars in the last year. It's a, it's a very modest profit. We are on track to pay down that loan. Um, but there's a few variables. Yeah. $4.2 million loan. There are a few variables.
That's that's August next year.
August next year. Yep. And if we're not going to pay it down, you know. I think we can be very open about why and I don't know why yet, but, you know, let's let's talk about that if, if we get there. Um, we have significant partnerships with companies like Suncorp. Origin, Nissan, Woolworths. We've got a broadcast partner with Foxtel who are putting more money into the sport than, um, you know, we've ever had, but there's still a little way to go. We're not, I don't think we've yet reached our potential, so I wouldn't say we've failed. We haven't commercialised. We have. But there's I think there's still money in on the table that we need to focus on bringing into the system now so that we can supercharge the system so that, you know, our grass roots aren't supporting Super Netball. It's actually vice versa. The money flows the other way.
Well Liz Ellis, thank you so much.
Thank you. Great to chat Carla.
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