Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Hannah Diviney. Born with cerebral palsy, Diviney was told she'd never talk or feed herself, but overcame those odds to become a successful writer, actress, author and disability advocate. Diviney joins us to discuss bringing down Beyoncé with a tweet, the pressure to pretend she loves her disability, and her new film Audrey, which premiered at the prestigious South by Southwest festival in Austin, Texas, and hosting this episode, which also sees Divini open up about sex and dating, arguing that the able bodied community would rather she date someone else with a disability is Sydney Morning Herald culture reporter and columnist Thomas Mitchell.

Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Hannah Diviney. Born with cerebral palsy, Diviney was told she'd never talk or feed herself, but overcame those odds to become a successful writer, actress, author and disability advocate. Diviney joins us to discuss bringing down Beyoncé with a tweet, the pressure to pretend she loves her disability, and her new film Audrey, which premiered at the prestigious South by Southwest festival in Austin, Texas, and hosting this episode, which also sees Divini open up about sex and dating, arguing that the able bodied community would rather she date someone else with a disability is Sydney Morning Herald culture reporter and columnist Thomas Mitchell.

Thanks, Conrad. Welcome, Hannah Diviney to Good Weekend Talks. Thanks, Thomas. Thanks for having me. It's our pleasure. Now, look, let me get this right. Author, advocate, actress, Slayer of pop stars, screenwriter, young person, old soul. Have I missed anything? No.

Thanks, Conrad. Welcome, Hannah Diviney to Good Weekend Talks. Thanks, Thomas. Thanks for having me. It's our pleasure. Now, look, let me get this right. Author, advocate, actress, Slayer of pop stars, screenwriter, young person, old soul. Have I missed anything? No.

That just about covers me. Um, I'm going to have a word with my psychologist. Because it sounds like you've been going through my therapy file, too. Um, but we've been talking. Yeah, I'm sure you have. She has plenty of extensive notes.

That just about covers me. Um, I'm going to have a word with my psychologist. Because it sounds like you've been going through my therapy file, too. Um, but we've been talking. Yeah, I'm sure you have. She has plenty of extensive notes.

That is a lot of labels. Yeah. It is. And labels are a funny thing. Which one sits most comfortably with you, do you think? Um.

That is a lot of labels. Yeah. It is. And labels are a funny thing. Which one sits most comfortably with you, do you think? Um.

Probably. Writer. Just because that is like, the simplest and least contentious label. Sometimes I feel like. advocate can be kind of a double edged sword, or it's kind of a label that you have to wait for others to put on you first if you put it on yourself. It feels a bit grandiose and, like, arrogant maybe.

Probably. Writer. Just because that is like, the simplest and least contentious label. Sometimes I feel like. advocate can be kind of a double edged sword, or it's kind of a label that you have to wait for others to put on you first if you put it on yourself. It feels a bit grandiose and, like, arrogant maybe.

Yeah, well, I was curious about that because it is a funny term, I think, and especially the way I think society has a tendency to put that upon people. Yeah. And like, I know. So you were born with cerebral palsy as a baby. Your parents were told you'd never talk or feed yourself. You grew into this kind of force of nature who achieves things that people didn't think were possible. But do you feel like, you know, you get to a certain point and then society was like, okay, you're probably a good candidate to be an advocate. Like, is that how it felt? Almost.

Yeah, well, I was curious about that because it is a funny term, I think, and especially the way I think society has a tendency to put that upon people. Yeah. And like, I know. So you were born with cerebral palsy as a baby. Your parents were told you'd never talk or feed yourself. You grew into this kind of force of nature who achieves things that people didn't think were possible. But do you feel like, you know, you get to a certain point and then society was like, okay, you're probably a good candidate to be an advocate. Like, is that how it felt? Almost.

Yeah. Well, I guess, um, it was a label that I metaphorically ran from for a long time in that when I was in high school, I could think of nothing worse than being defined by my disability. I wanted to get as far away from it as possible. And then during the pandemic, I sort of watched as disabled people and our health was not necessarily the priority, like people were struggling with masking or socially isolating, and they couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that, like giving some people Covid was going to be really, really bad. And then a journalist that I knew who worked at the ABC asked me like midway through that year to write an article about how people could be better, better allies to the disabled community. And they asked me for my for my bio. And they were like, does disability advocate sound right? And I was like, I guess so, like, cool, let's go with that. And then it kind of stuck. Um, and people have just kind of kept, kept asking and kept, um, giving me opportunities to speak and advocate for my community.

Yeah. Well, I guess, um, it was a label that I metaphorically ran from for a long time in that when I was in high school, I could think of nothing worse than being defined by my disability. I wanted to get as far away from it as possible. And then during the pandemic, I sort of watched as disabled people and our health was not necessarily the priority, like people were struggling with masking or socially isolating, and they couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that, like giving some people Covid was going to be really, really bad. And then a journalist that I knew who worked at the ABC asked me like midway through that year to write an article about how people could be better, better allies to the disabled community. And they asked me for my for my bio. And they were like, does disability advocate sound right? And I was like, I guess so, like, cool, let's go with that. And then it kind of stuck. Um, and people have just kind of kept, kept asking and kept, um, giving me opportunities to speak and advocate for my community.

Because I was. Yeah, I was almost going to say like this. If you look at some of the big like, I guess, beats in your life, which we'll get into, but it almost seems like you were an accidental advocate in some ways. Like one of the one of the big moments, I guess, is, is the Lizzo and Beyonce tweets. Indeed. And that was obviously a thing. You know, you first, it was Lizzo who used ableist language in one of her songs, which came across your radar.

Because I was. Yeah, I was almost going to say like this. If you look at some of the big like, I guess, beats in your life, which we'll get into, but it almost seems like you were an accidental advocate in some ways. Like one of the one of the big moments, I guess, is, is the Lizzo and Beyonce tweets. Indeed. And that was obviously a thing. You know, you first, it was Lizzo who used ableist language in one of her songs, which came across your radar.

It did? Yeah.

It did? Yeah.

This was in 2022. Yeah. And then a few weeks later, Beyonce did the same thing, and you kind of caused this big international stir by calling them both out on social media.

This was in 2022. Yeah. And then a few weeks later, Beyonce did the same thing, and you kind of caused this big international stir by calling them both out on social media.

And in in the song, Lizzo has one of her lyrics where she says, spazz like, we're gonna spazz out. You know which Americans commonly know as means like go crazy, have fun, throw a party, whatever. You can use it in like, multiple different ways, fun ways. Um, what was interesting was that that somebody tweeted to Lizzo and they said to her, hey, just so you know, um, spazz is a word that is used specifically. You know, it's a derogatory term used to describe people who have disabilities. And they use that commonly in, like the UK and Australia, you know, and they were like, oh yeah, this is, this is, you know, how I, how I feel about this. And, and then Lizzo, which was really gracious. Lizzo has has changed the lyric of the song. So she went back, changed the lyric, and she was like, hey, I didn't mean to do that. So I'll change the lyric very graciously. But it wasn't.

And in in the song, Lizzo has one of her lyrics where she says, spazz like, we're gonna spazz out. You know which Americans commonly know as means like go crazy, have fun, throw a party, whatever. You can use it in like, multiple different ways, fun ways. Um, what was interesting was that that somebody tweeted to Lizzo and they said to her, hey, just so you know, um, spazz is a word that is used specifically. You know, it's a derogatory term used to describe people who have disabilities. And they use that commonly in, like the UK and Australia, you know, and they were like, oh yeah, this is, this is, you know, how I, how I feel about this. And, and then Lizzo, which was really gracious. Lizzo has has changed the lyric of the song. So she went back, changed the lyric, and she was like, hey, I didn't mean to do that. So I'll change the lyric very graciously. But it wasn't.

Something that you were seeking out. No.

Something that you were seeking out. No.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I came across what Lizzo had done in terms of using the ableist language through my Twitter feed, because other disabled advocates that I knew were expressing their disappointment to me, that didn't align with what I viewed Lizzo to be about. So I was really confused because she promoted this message of inclusion and diversity and all of that kind of stuff. And I was a little bit like, well, that doesn't gel. Um, so then I went and listened to the song myself just to clarify that, like, yes, that is actually what you said. And then I wrote a tweet in like, I don't know, 30s explaining why that particular word is offensive to me and that I expected her to do better. As someone who has built a platform on a on inclusivity and equality and all of that. Um, and then I pressed send and I've tweeted thousands of times. I've never had a tweet do that.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I came across what Lizzo had done in terms of using the ableist language through my Twitter feed, because other disabled advocates that I knew were expressing their disappointment to me, that didn't align with what I viewed Lizzo to be about. So I was really confused because she promoted this message of inclusion and diversity and all of that kind of stuff. And I was a little bit like, well, that doesn't gel. Um, so then I went and listened to the song myself just to clarify that, like, yes, that is actually what you said. And then I wrote a tweet in like, I don't know, 30s explaining why that particular word is offensive to me and that I expected her to do better. As someone who has built a platform on a on inclusivity and equality and all of that. Um, and then I pressed send and I've tweeted thousands of times. I've never had a tweet do that.

Yeah. You really once you put it out there and then suddenly, yeah, you can really change things in 140 characters or less. Yeah.

Yeah. You really once you put it out there and then suddenly, yeah, you can really change things in 140 characters or less. Yeah.

Um, and I just remember I think it was like the June long weekend or something. So I just went back to like, what I was doing with my family, and I picked up my phone a couple of hours later and was like, oh, why is it hot? And then looked down and was like, oh boy, um, there are notifications everywhere.

Um, and I just remember I think it was like the June long weekend or something. So I just went back to like, what I was doing with my family, and I picked up my phone a couple of hours later and was like, oh, why is it hot? And then looked down and was like, oh boy, um, there are notifications everywhere.

Yeah, it kind of became this big thing, you know? And in a strange way, the machine then takes over, you know, and you have like, I know The New York Times is reaching out to journalists all over the world. It becomes a news story, and then you become the face of that news story. And it's all a net positive, of course. Uh, but I was curious, like. And then I know, like, a few weeks later, someone said, oh, well, Beyonce's done this and you did the same thing. And then the similar result. Beyoncé then changed her lyrics.

Yeah, it kind of became this big thing, you know? And in a strange way, the machine then takes over, you know, and you have like, I know The New York Times is reaching out to journalists all over the world. It becomes a news story, and then you become the face of that news story. And it's all a net positive, of course. Uh, but I was curious, like. And then I know, like, a few weeks later, someone said, oh, well, Beyonce's done this and you did the same thing. And then the similar result. Beyoncé then changed her lyrics.

Yeah. Which I'm very grateful for. I think that's incredible allyship by both Lizzo and Beyonce. And I'm fairly confident in saying that. Like, they might not have had that reaction if they weren't also marginalized women in their own ways, and if they didn't also know the impact of certain harmful language that's been weaponized against them.

Yeah. Which I'm very grateful for. I think that's incredible allyship by both Lizzo and Beyonce. And I'm fairly confident in saying that. Like, they might not have had that reaction if they weren't also marginalized women in their own ways, and if they didn't also know the impact of certain harmful language that's been weaponized against them.

It's a nuanced conversation. And for me, I could have I mean, everybody's talking about it now. There's think pieces everywhere. And I was like, what's the best thing I can do? I can say my opinion on it and just add to everyone else's opinion, or I can do something about it. And really, I wanted to be a leader in in what we should be doing as a culture, like making this world a better place. Like, if they could do that for black people, that would be amazing. True. When we. When we call things out.

It's a nuanced conversation. And for me, I could have I mean, everybody's talking about it now. There's think pieces everywhere. And I was like, what's the best thing I can do? I can say my opinion on it and just add to everyone else's opinion, or I can do something about it. And really, I wanted to be a leader in in what we should be doing as a culture, like making this world a better place. Like, if they could do that for black people, that would be amazing. True. When we. When we call things out.

Yes. Well, I mean, I know just this morning Tom Brady has used a similar term while commentating NFL. I suspect he may not. I mean, look, I can't speak for Tom Brady, but I would be shocked if he, you know, makes a public apology.

Yes. Well, I mean, I know just this morning Tom Brady has used a similar term while commentating NFL. I suspect he may not. I mean, look, I can't speak for Tom Brady, but I would be shocked if he, you know, makes a public apology.

We're trying Thomas. We're trying. Yeah. Good. Because interestingly enough, like you mentioned that like my my last couple of years have been a bit like being shot out of a rocket and that there are big beats in my story. Well, because of all of those I now have a Google alert on for my name. Is that stressful? A little bit sometimes. And like yesterday, late afternoon, I start getting all these like American sports notifications and it's like Tom Brady and I'm like, you're like.

We're trying Thomas. We're trying. Yeah. Good. Because interestingly enough, like you mentioned that like my my last couple of years have been a bit like being shot out of a rocket and that there are big beats in my story. Well, because of all of those I now have a Google alert on for my name. Is that stressful? A little bit sometimes. And like yesterday, late afternoon, I start getting all these like American sports notifications and it's like Tom Brady and I'm like, you're like.

Oh dear, what's happened?

Oh dear, what's happened?

I'm like, what do I have in common with Tom Brady? I'm like, did he see? Did they see me fencing in the in the movie? And now they're comparing me to like one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.

I'm like, what do I have in common with Tom Brady? I'm like, did he see? Did they see me fencing in the in the movie? And now they're comparing me to like one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.

Like yeah they're calling you the Tom Brady of fencing. Yeah.

Like yeah they're calling you the Tom Brady of fencing. Yeah.

That's that's 100% what's happening. And I clicked on the article and then went oh, oh that makes more sense. But that's depressing. Yes. Um, but to the journalists and media's credit, every outlet that's covered, it has explained why it's not an appropriate term to use, and has cited what happened with Lizzo and Beyonce as an example of why Tom Brady should know better. Mhm.

That's that's 100% what's happening. And I clicked on the article and then went oh, oh that makes more sense. But that's depressing. Yes. Um, but to the journalists and media's credit, every outlet that's covered, it has explained why it's not an appropriate term to use, and has cited what happened with Lizzo and Beyonce as an example of why Tom Brady should know better. Mhm.

Okay. I want to read directly from the story here. It's a term that has been deemed wildly offensive in the UK because of its history as an ableist slur for people with disabilities, especially, especially cerebral palsy. I didn't know that first off, but again, we're talking about the UK. Here we are in the United States of America. The term isn't considered quite as offensive in the US, but it's still meant as an insult to describe clumsiness, stupidity or physical ineptness. I got no problem with it. I didn't know about this UK meaning of it. Yeah.

Okay. I want to read directly from the story here. It's a term that has been deemed wildly offensive in the UK because of its history as an ableist slur for people with disabilities, especially, especially cerebral palsy. I didn't know that first off, but again, we're talking about the UK. Here we are in the United States of America. The term isn't considered quite as offensive in the US, but it's still meant as an insult to describe clumsiness, stupidity or physical ineptness. I got no problem with it. I didn't know about this UK meaning of it. Yeah.

And so I feel comfortable that for all the flack I copped when that happened and there was a lot of it, I think if you drew up a bingo card of every insult you could throw at a young woman, most of them would be marked off by the experience of calling out Lizzo and Beyonce. Um, but I feel confident that, like, we've made a change because the media got there before I did, and I have now, like I was just finishing it, a statement out of my Instagram and on my Twitter being like, come on guys. Yeah.

And so I feel comfortable that for all the flack I copped when that happened and there was a lot of it, I think if you drew up a bingo card of every insult you could throw at a young woman, most of them would be marked off by the experience of calling out Lizzo and Beyonce. Um, but I feel confident that, like, we've made a change because the media got there before I did, and I have now, like I was just finishing it, a statement out of my Instagram and on my Twitter being like, come on guys. Yeah.

It's yeah, it's interesting because I guess, do you think as a result of what that what occurred with Lizzo and Beyonce, was it almost a bit of a awakening for you to to be like, okay, I may not have coveted this advocacy position. It may have been kind of I may have been guided towards it. And now this has happened. And actually, you know, I am okay with this, even if perhaps I didn't used to be. Yeah.

It's yeah, it's interesting because I guess, do you think as a result of what that what occurred with Lizzo and Beyonce, was it almost a bit of a awakening for you to to be like, okay, I may not have coveted this advocacy position. It may have been kind of I may have been guided towards it. And now this has happened. And actually, you know, I am okay with this, even if perhaps I didn't used to be. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think during the pandemic, it just really hit home how lucky I was to have the literal privilege of having a voice and being someone that could articulate themselves both verbally and across the written word. And I kind of decided from there that, well, if I have these skills, it's kind of my job, quote unquote, to to use them because there's so many people in my community who don't have voices, whether literally or metaphorically, and they need them because the stakes are high and it's funny. Like I said in my post just now, I know that there are much bigger problems in the world right now than ableist language, and I have big feelings about lots of things going on in the world, but there's not much I can do to directly impact them. Like, I can tell people to register to vote in the in the US election. I can express my discomfort or even disgust with the way the situation in Gaza is being handled, but beyond that, there's not much I can individually do. Whereas because of my advocacy and because of this kind of specific precedent that I've set, I might be able to change this one.

Yeah. Well, I think during the pandemic, it just really hit home how lucky I was to have the literal privilege of having a voice and being someone that could articulate themselves both verbally and across the written word. And I kind of decided from there that, well, if I have these skills, it's kind of my job, quote unquote, to to use them because there's so many people in my community who don't have voices, whether literally or metaphorically, and they need them because the stakes are high and it's funny. Like I said in my post just now, I know that there are much bigger problems in the world right now than ableist language, and I have big feelings about lots of things going on in the world, but there's not much I can do to directly impact them. Like, I can tell people to register to vote in the in the US election. I can express my discomfort or even disgust with the way the situation in Gaza is being handled, but beyond that, there's not much I can individually do. Whereas because of my advocacy and because of this kind of specific precedent that I've set, I might be able to change this one.

Yeah. It's a funny thing, though, isn't it? Like, you know, you mentioned like I know they're a big kind of like quantifying it almost or providing a caveat. I know there are bigger things going on, but this is still not okay. And, you know, I, I looked into this Tom Brady thing this morning and already there are some like, you know, really dumb American websites like Barstool Sports or, you know, saying like, oh, this is like, you know, the the language police are out and it's like, it's such an odd take, I think to be like, oh, well, like everyone's being sensitive. Like, look how you know, I know there are bigger things going on, but those things can both exist. It can. They can, you know, it can it can be a really sad, weird time in the world. And it's still like, okay, to be like, this is not how we should be speaking.

Yeah. It's a funny thing, though, isn't it? Like, you know, you mentioned like I know they're a big kind of like quantifying it almost or providing a caveat. I know there are bigger things going on, but this is still not okay. And, you know, I, I looked into this Tom Brady thing this morning and already there are some like, you know, really dumb American websites like Barstool Sports or, you know, saying like, oh, this is like, you know, the the language police are out and it's like, it's such an odd take, I think to be like, oh, well, like everyone's being sensitive. Like, look how you know, I know there are bigger things going on, but those things can both exist. It can. They can, you know, it can it can be a really sad, weird time in the world. And it's still like, okay, to be like, this is not how we should be speaking.

I just try and now, like, anticipate what?

I just try and now, like, anticipate what?

The backlash.

The backlash.

Yeah. The criticisms that people might put in my comment section and kind of try and close as many loopholes as I as I can. They still get pretty inventive, and I have no doubt that over the next couple of hours and days there will be floods of them again. but that's okay. And I think it's also really interesting because both of. Or all of the complex issues in the world would go a ways towards being solved if people communicated more compassionately. And if people were more, um, careful about the language they use. Like, I think a lack of communication is part is part of the reason we've got to this weird, sad place. It's not the whole reason. There's there's many, many factors, but people communicating or not being able to see other people's viewpoints or whatever it might be, is part of it's part of the reason.

Yeah. The criticisms that people might put in my comment section and kind of try and close as many loopholes as I as I can. They still get pretty inventive, and I have no doubt that over the next couple of hours and days there will be floods of them again. but that's okay. And I think it's also really interesting because both of. Or all of the complex issues in the world would go a ways towards being solved if people communicated more compassionately. And if people were more, um, careful about the language they use. Like, I think a lack of communication is part is part of the reason we've got to this weird, sad place. It's not the whole reason. There's there's many, many factors, but people communicating or not being able to see other people's viewpoints or whatever it might be, is part of it's part of the reason.

Yeah. Well, I think it's yeah, sadly, we all exist in these weird echo chambers and like, they people just love to get online and like, they won't be swayed and, you know, they see something that angers them and they just channel it towards that and that's that. And, you know, like people who probably have never even visited your page before might come and be like, well, I read this thing on the internet and now I'm angry at you. And even though I don't know who you are.

Yeah. Well, I think it's yeah, sadly, we all exist in these weird echo chambers and like, they people just love to get online and like, they won't be swayed and, you know, they see something that angers them and they just channel it towards that and that's that. And, you know, like people who probably have never even visited your page before might come and be like, well, I read this thing on the internet and now I'm angry at you. And even though I don't know who you are.

I'm expecting that to happen. And I'm expecting that there will be men in particular who are supporters of the NFL and supporters of Tom Brady that will be most upset with me. Yes.

I'm expecting that to happen. And I'm expecting that there will be men in particular who are supporters of the NFL and supporters of Tom Brady that will be most upset with me. Yes.

Well, look, I mean, you're off your Christmas card list, but I'm sure you'll be fine.

Well, look, I mean, you're off your Christmas card list, but I'm sure you'll be fine.

I'm sure I will.

I'm sure I will.

Be. You know, looking again at this kind of like. I just think it's interesting to see your journey and, like, and almost stumble into the advocacy position.

Be. You know, looking again at this kind of like. I just think it's interesting to see your journey and, like, and almost stumble into the advocacy position.

I feel like I've stumbled into everything. I feel like I stumbled into acting, I feel like I stumbled into all of it.

I feel like I've stumbled into everything. I feel like I stumbled into acting, I feel like I stumbled into all of it.

And that's the kind of a really nice way to do it, I think in some ways, because like even with latecomers, you know, it's such a great series. It was kind of, um, so funny and so tender and so raw. But there was, you know, obviously it became this thing where you became the first disabled person to shoot a sex scene in Australian TV history, but it didn't seem like that was something that the series was intending to do. It just happened. Then you were like, oh, this has happened. Yeah, we.

And that's the kind of a really nice way to do it, I think in some ways, because like even with latecomers, you know, it's such a great series. It was kind of, um, so funny and so tender and so raw. But there was, you know, obviously it became this thing where you became the first disabled person to shoot a sex scene in Australian TV history, but it didn't seem like that was something that the series was intending to do. It just happened. Then you were like, oh, this has happened. Yeah, we.

All kind of realised and we're all like, we're all kind of looking at the script or like being on set and being like, hey, um, we don't actually think anyone's done this before. Like, whoops. Um, we didn't mean to make TV history like that wasn't our intention, because that would be kind of grandiose and and strange, but we have. And so now we need to celebrate that and elevate it to being kind of one of the centerpieces for why audiences should care about the show.

All kind of realised and we're all like, we're all kind of looking at the script or like being on set and being like, hey, um, we don't actually think anyone's done this before. Like, whoops. Um, we didn't mean to make TV history like that wasn't our intention, because that would be kind of grandiose and and strange, but we have. And so now we need to celebrate that and elevate it to being kind of one of the centerpieces for why audiences should care about the show.

Do you think it makes it easier to process the gravity of these milestones when you're not kind of consciously seeking them out?

Do you think it makes it easier to process the gravity of these milestones when you're not kind of consciously seeking them out?

I think so, but I think it's also one of those things where I probably won't fully process it until I'm much older. I kind of think about it as it won't be until I'm explaining my life to like my grandkids or something that I'm like, oh, actually, like I did all those things because yes, that exists and I am aware of it right now, but I also have like I, I also am just me and still doing everyday things and still spilling food on myself, or like binging a Netflix show or or whatever it might be. So it kind of feels almost like a double life, sort of.

I think so, but I think it's also one of those things where I probably won't fully process it until I'm much older. I kind of think about it as it won't be until I'm explaining my life to like my grandkids or something that I'm like, oh, actually, like I did all those things because yes, that exists and I am aware of it right now, but I also have like I, I also am just me and still doing everyday things and still spilling food on myself, or like binging a Netflix show or or whatever it might be. So it kind of feels almost like a double life, sort of.

Yeah, it's funny because you've got these two, like you said, you've got these two things going on where you probably feel like Hannah, the same person. And yet your career and achievements like Coexists at the same time as, you know, your real life. And I was curious to ask you. You know, you've written a book, you're starring in films. Your profile has been rising steadily, especially the last two years. And with that, I guess, comes a greater awareness from the general public. You get more Instagram followers, people know your name when you're out. They want to meet you and talk to you. And yes, I've always been curious, like, do you think part of your discomfort with the advocacy label comes from, like, the able bodied community's expectations? Sometimes that disabled people be brave and inspirational and these heroes, or that we.

Yeah, it's funny because you've got these two, like you said, you've got these two things going on where you probably feel like Hannah, the same person. And yet your career and achievements like Coexists at the same time as, you know, your real life. And I was curious to ask you. You know, you've written a book, you're starring in films. Your profile has been rising steadily, especially the last two years. And with that, I guess, comes a greater awareness from the general public. You get more Instagram followers, people know your name when you're out. They want to meet you and talk to you. And yes, I've always been curious, like, do you think part of your discomfort with the advocacy label comes from, like, the able bodied community's expectations? Sometimes that disabled people be brave and inspirational and these heroes, or that we.

Have to be exceptional at all times? Yeah, we have to. We have to be exceptional or we're invisible. There's no in between. So I am often and always advocating for like, no, no, you can be just you. Like, you don't have to be a Paralympian. You don't have to be an actor. You don't have to be an advocate who goes scary viral on the internet and is known by the whole world. Sometimes you can just be a regular person doing regular things and that's okay. Like that doesn't make your life any less important. There's there's extraordinary in the ordinary kind of thing, because I never want young people with disabilities to feel pressured to be like me.

Have to be exceptional at all times? Yeah, we have to. We have to be exceptional or we're invisible. There's no in between. So I am often and always advocating for like, no, no, you can be just you. Like, you don't have to be a Paralympian. You don't have to be an actor. You don't have to be an advocate who goes scary viral on the internet and is known by the whole world. Sometimes you can just be a regular person doing regular things and that's okay. Like that doesn't make your life any less important. There's there's extraordinary in the ordinary kind of thing, because I never want young people with disabilities to feel pressured to be like me.

Well, like, that was what I was going to ask you about. I know that in, like, 2022. Dylan Alcott was voted Australian of the year. Um, you know, arguably one of the most high profile disabled people in the country. Uh, and the awards night he talked about, you know, he used to hate his disability, but over time, he grew to love his disability. And I thought afterwards there was a really interesting piece that Doctor George Soros, chairperson of the Victorian Disability Advisory Council, wrote. And he kind of talked about, you know, that he obviously respects Dylan so much, but that we can't all love our disability. Absolutely not. And it's it's almost a bit of a tricky message to put out to people.

Well, like, that was what I was going to ask you about. I know that in, like, 2022. Dylan Alcott was voted Australian of the year. Um, you know, arguably one of the most high profile disabled people in the country. Uh, and the awards night he talked about, you know, he used to hate his disability, but over time, he grew to love his disability. And I thought afterwards there was a really interesting piece that Doctor George Soros, chairperson of the Victorian Disability Advisory Council, wrote. And he kind of talked about, you know, that he obviously respects Dylan so much, but that we can't all love our disability. Absolutely not. And it's it's almost a bit of a tricky message to put out to people.

Yeah. I mean, I get so confused about my disability because there are times where I am extremely frustrated by it and still quite hateful of it, if I'm honest. But I also know that everything that I have built now is intertwined with it. So I can't take it away because if I did, I'd lose all this. But it would also make other parts of my life easier. But there's no guarantee that if that if I made other parts of my life easier, that I would be doing anything like this. And I love doing what I'm doing in terms of acting and writing and stuff like that. So how do I weigh that up? Like, what sort of a trade is that?

Yeah. I mean, I get so confused about my disability because there are times where I am extremely frustrated by it and still quite hateful of it, if I'm honest. But I also know that everything that I have built now is intertwined with it. So I can't take it away because if I did, I'd lose all this. But it would also make other parts of my life easier. But there's no guarantee that if that if I made other parts of my life easier, that I would be doing anything like this. And I love doing what I'm doing in terms of acting and writing and stuff like that. So how do I weigh that up? Like, what sort of a trade is that?

Yeah, it would be very tough to marry up those two things in your head. Yeah.

Yeah, it would be very tough to marry up those two things in your head. Yeah.

And also because, like, as much as I didn't want this to be true in high school? My disability has defined me. It defines what I value. It defines what I care about. It defines the the things that I don't participate in. It defines the things that I leave for other people to worry about, like all that kind of stuff. So I don't even know if I would be the same person if I wasn't disabled. I'd like to think that all of the things would like that are fundamentally me would stay the same, but I don't know. So.

And also because, like, as much as I didn't want this to be true in high school? My disability has defined me. It defines what I value. It defines what I care about. It defines the the things that I don't participate in. It defines the things that I leave for other people to worry about, like all that kind of stuff. So I don't even know if I would be the same person if I wasn't disabled. I'd like to think that all of the things would like that are fundamentally me would stay the same, but I don't know. So.

And it's probably an impossible question to answer because how can you, how can you ever know? You'll never get to know.

And it's probably an impossible question to answer because how can you, how can you ever know? You'll never get to know.

But yeah, there are. There are definitely still days where I'm like, I hate this. I really want to be someone else. Like, this is too much. Just give me a break from being disabled for for a minute. Yeah.

But yeah, there are. There are definitely still days where I'm like, I hate this. I really want to be someone else. Like, this is too much. Just give me a break from being disabled for for a minute. Yeah.

And that's why I just I was curious because it's almost like, you know, the able bodied community progressive as they perhaps like to see themselves or that, you know, that movement is like, okay, you know, we've done so much, but I still think there is this tendency to, yeah, box away disabled people is like, you're, you know, so inspirational. And like, if someone says that word to you, do you feel your skin crawl a little bit?

And that's why I just I was curious because it's almost like, you know, the able bodied community progressive as they perhaps like to see themselves or that, you know, that movement is like, okay, you know, we've done so much, but I still think there is this tendency to, yeah, box away disabled people is like, you're, you know, so inspirational. And like, if someone says that word to you, do you feel your skin crawl a little bit?

It depends on the context. So like if I'm out and about like just say like crossing the road or grocery shopping and someone comes up to me and says, you're so inspirational, and it's clear that they mean because you're out and about, like grocery shopping or crossing the road or doing whatever. Then I'm like, ah, yeah, but if I can tell that, like the person is specifically referring to my work, or if it's another disabled person saying it to me, then I feel very differently about it. So it also, yeah, just context is everything, I think. Yes.

It depends on the context. So like if I'm out and about like just say like crossing the road or grocery shopping and someone comes up to me and says, you're so inspirational, and it's clear that they mean because you're out and about, like grocery shopping or crossing the road or doing whatever. Then I'm like, ah, yeah, but if I can tell that, like the person is specifically referring to my work, or if it's another disabled person saying it to me, then I feel very differently about it. So it also, yeah, just context is everything, I think. Yes.

Context, I mean, is often so important. A good message for everybody. Yeah, I was curious. You are addressing the National Press Club in December I am congratulations.

Context, I mean, is often so important. A good message for everybody. Yeah, I was curious. You are addressing the National Press Club in December I am congratulations.

I'm a little bit terrified, Thomas. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm a little bit terrified, Thomas. I'm not gonna lie.

I hear it's a big deal. Yeah. Uh, I wanted to ask you on the National Press Club website. Uh oh. I saw you wrote that the address will be framed by the narrative of two distinct and formative breakdowns in your mental health. The first at 17 and the second only a few months ago. So I guess the first question I wanted to ask is, are you okay?

I hear it's a big deal. Yeah. Uh, I wanted to ask you on the National Press Club website. Uh oh. I saw you wrote that the address will be framed by the narrative of two distinct and formative breakdowns in your mental health. The first at 17 and the second only a few months ago. So I guess the first question I wanted to ask is, are you okay?

Yeah, I think I'm. And thank you for asking. That's a really, really beautiful thing for you to do. I really appreciate that. I think I am. I mean, I'm not I wouldn't say it's perfect and it's probably never going to be. I deal with pretty significant mental health issues and also like to go back to your your earlier sort of question. I don't think I'm ever going to get to a place where I fully accept my disability. Either it's going to always rub me the wrong way. There are always going to be moments where I'm like, God damn it! But if I can just make those moments smaller or less frequent or less intrusive, then that's the goal for me.

Yeah, I think I'm. And thank you for asking. That's a really, really beautiful thing for you to do. I really appreciate that. I think I am. I mean, I'm not I wouldn't say it's perfect and it's probably never going to be. I deal with pretty significant mental health issues and also like to go back to your your earlier sort of question. I don't think I'm ever going to get to a place where I fully accept my disability. Either it's going to always rub me the wrong way. There are always going to be moments where I'm like, God damn it! But if I can just make those moments smaller or less frequent or less intrusive, then that's the goal for me.

Do you think, like the weight of the work schedule and even, you know, you've got like you're currently got the movie coming out, you're preparing for a big address, you do stuff like this, and that's all so exciting. But, you know, as is the case for all of us, sometimes work stuff is great and makes you feel better, and sometimes it makes you feel much worse.

Do you think, like the weight of the work schedule and even, you know, you've got like you're currently got the movie coming out, you're preparing for a big address, you do stuff like this, and that's all so exciting. But, you know, as is the case for all of us, sometimes work stuff is great and makes you feel better, and sometimes it makes you feel much worse.

Yeah, I think, um, it's been a steep, steep learning curve around what I can take on and what what what I can't. And also just being aware that for me as a disabled person, like my body responds to fatigue and to things like burnout a bit differently. Um, so I just have to be really mindful. And one of the things that I have to get better at is not comparing, not comparing myself to my able bodied peers who do this work, whether it be speaking, writing, acting, etc.. Um, because if I do that, I'm going to set myself up to fail from the beginning because I'm not, nor am I ever going to be able bodied.

Yeah, I think, um, it's been a steep, steep learning curve around what I can take on and what what what I can't. And also just being aware that for me as a disabled person, like my body responds to fatigue and to things like burnout a bit differently. Um, so I just have to be really mindful. And one of the things that I have to get better at is not comparing, not comparing myself to my able bodied peers who do this work, whether it be speaking, writing, acting, etc.. Um, because if I do that, I'm going to set myself up to fail from the beginning because I'm not, nor am I ever going to be able bodied.

Well, yeah, I guess comparison is the thief of joy for all of us.

Well, yeah, I guess comparison is the thief of joy for all of us.

Yes, but considering that I have like, generalized anxiety disorder, that's kind of where it thrives. So I'm like, are you again? Yes.

Yes, but considering that I have like, generalized anxiety disorder, that's kind of where it thrives. So I'm like, are you again? Yes.

Hello. I've missed you so much. Yeah. But especially I think, you know, in any creative endeavor or output that requires like, you can't have this conversation with my friends a lot like my friends who are, you know, real estate agents or bankers or whatever, making like ten times as much as I am. But they're like, oh, I've got so much work to do, but they can just, like, pound through it if they need to, where it's different. When you're doing something creative, you can't just switch it on.

Hello. I've missed you so much. Yeah. But especially I think, you know, in any creative endeavor or output that requires like, you can't have this conversation with my friends a lot like my friends who are, you know, real estate agents or bankers or whatever, making like ten times as much as I am. But they're like, oh, I've got so much work to do, but they can just, like, pound through it if they need to, where it's different. When you're doing something creative, you can't just switch it on.

No, and I've been explaining that to a couple people recently to where I'm like the process of ideating and like coming up with creative things looks an awful lot like doing nothing. But I promise you, like while it looks like I'm doing nothing, my brain is actually working really hard. But like, I can't force the words out or the ideas to come or the roles to be there. Like, these things take time. And I think that's something that I'm not used to because I like in my previous job as as editor in chief at Missing Perspectives, that was very much like a more regular 9 to 5 where it was like, well, you have this to do. And now that that's not there, I'm like, oh, now I have time. But also I have to keep reminding myself that I'm not being a bad being, a bad creative in inverted commas if I don't have X to show for it at the end of the day.

No, and I've been explaining that to a couple people recently to where I'm like the process of ideating and like coming up with creative things looks an awful lot like doing nothing. But I promise you, like while it looks like I'm doing nothing, my brain is actually working really hard. But like, I can't force the words out or the ideas to come or the roles to be there. Like, these things take time. And I think that's something that I'm not used to because I like in my previous job as as editor in chief at Missing Perspectives, that was very much like a more regular 9 to 5 where it was like, well, you have this to do. And now that that's not there, I'm like, oh, now I have time. But also I have to keep reminding myself that I'm not being a bad being, a bad creative in inverted commas if I don't have X to show for it at the end of the day.

Yeah, you don't have to. You don't have to be like a slave to the output right now. Yeah, that's a good feeling. Yeah. Yeah. That being said, I think it would be hard for anyone to say that you haven't been very impressive in your output. And, you know, you touched on it earlier, but Audrey will be coming out very soon. It's. Yes. It debuted at South by Southwest in Texas. Austin. You went there for the premiere. We did arguably like the most prestigious way to premiere a film. And this is your first, I.

Yeah, you don't have to. You don't have to be like a slave to the output right now. Yeah, that's a good feeling. Yeah. Yeah. That being said, I think it would be hard for anyone to say that you haven't been very impressive in your output. And, you know, you touched on it earlier, but Audrey will be coming out very soon. It's. Yes. It debuted at South by Southwest in Texas. Austin. You went there for the premiere. We did arguably like the most prestigious way to premiere a film. And this is your first, I.

Know.

Know.

Major actor. I mean, obviously you've done TV's. This is your first film experience as far as firsts go. That's pretty good.

Major actor. I mean, obviously you've done TV's. This is your first film experience as far as firsts go. That's pretty good.

Yeah, it was pretty surreal. Um, and like, it's pretty strange to be to be there a few days later and be like, oh, there's Sydney Sweeney. Hang on a minute. There's Ryan Gosling, there's Emily Blunt. Wait a second. I'm sitting at the world premiere of The Fall Guy, but I also have a movie out, so, like, technically, we're here for the same job, but what the heck was it?

Yeah, it was pretty surreal. Um, and like, it's pretty strange to be to be there a few days later and be like, oh, there's Sydney Sweeney. Hang on a minute. There's Ryan Gosling, there's Emily Blunt. Wait a second. I'm sitting at the world premiere of The Fall Guy, but I also have a movie out, so, like, technically, we're here for the same job, but what the heck was it?

Just like, it's hard to sum up these types of experiences that people are like, they're amazing. But, like, what was it actually like to be at South by Southwest watching your own film premiere?

Just like, it's hard to sum up these types of experiences that people are like, they're amazing. But, like, what was it actually like to be at South by Southwest watching your own film premiere?

Well, it was really intense because we were only there for five days. So when you factor in the obviously the distance that we had to travel, the jet lag we were all operating on minimal, minimal functionality, I think. But we also knew that we had made like, this absolutely crazy, wild ride of a film that had been very obvious from like reading the script and filming it. But we didn't know because obviously you shoot things all out of order and we hadn't seen any, any edits. We had no idea what it would actually look like. So to be there, watching it for the first time in a big cinema with Americans who typically have a different sense of humour to Australians and we weren't sure. Would they get it? Would they be offended? Would they like, would they like it? Like there's a lot of taboo topics that we explore. So we're all just there like, whoa. Yeah. So it was very surreal and very daunting. And then it people kept coming up to us and being like, oh, we loved it. We can't wait to see it like come out, This is going to go really well. Like there was a real buzz about it. And I mean, I have no idea what to expect. I've never done this stuff before and no one had really sat me down. And it was like, so this is how film festivals work. So I was just going around wide eyed like a sponge, going, mom, help!

Well, it was really intense because we were only there for five days. So when you factor in the obviously the distance that we had to travel, the jet lag we were all operating on minimal, minimal functionality, I think. But we also knew that we had made like, this absolutely crazy, wild ride of a film that had been very obvious from like reading the script and filming it. But we didn't know because obviously you shoot things all out of order and we hadn't seen any, any edits. We had no idea what it would actually look like. So to be there, watching it for the first time in a big cinema with Americans who typically have a different sense of humour to Australians and we weren't sure. Would they get it? Would they be offended? Would they like, would they like it? Like there's a lot of taboo topics that we explore. So we're all just there like, whoa. Yeah. So it was very surreal and very daunting. And then it people kept coming up to us and being like, oh, we loved it. We can't wait to see it like come out, This is going to go really well. Like there was a real buzz about it. And I mean, I have no idea what to expect. I've never done this stuff before and no one had really sat me down. And it was like, so this is how film festivals work. So I was just going around wide eyed like a sponge, going, mom, help!

I mean, look, if in doubt, your mom's always there to help you guide you through your first South by Southwest experience. The film is very funny. I've seen it. I'm lucky. Thank you very much. Follows a mum of two who's kind of living a life she maybe didn't envisage herself. She's a yeah, a derailed acting career, unmotivated husband and two daughters that she doesn't really connect with. Uh, things take a very big turn when they do. Accident lands her eldest daughter, Audrey, in a coma. Uh, you play Audrey's sister, Nora? Yes. Who has cerebral palsy. She kind of comes into her surprise. Yeah, that was a plot twist.

I mean, look, if in doubt, your mom's always there to help you guide you through your first South by Southwest experience. The film is very funny. I've seen it. I'm lucky. Thank you very much. Follows a mum of two who's kind of living a life she maybe didn't envisage herself. She's a yeah, a derailed acting career, unmotivated husband and two daughters that she doesn't really connect with. Uh, things take a very big turn when they do. Accident lands her eldest daughter, Audrey, in a coma. Uh, you play Audrey's sister, Nora? Yes. Who has cerebral palsy. She kind of comes into her surprise. Yeah, that was a plot twist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of comes into her own, though. The whole family comes into their own once. Uh, Audrey, the problematic child is out of the picture. And you said it is a very dark comedy. Uh, your character is like, really steals the show in terms of just like the way your delivery of your lines. Very, very funny. Like, was it how stressful was that preparing for a movie and being like, okay, you've got like some serious heavy hitters in this film?

Kind of comes into her own, though. The whole family comes into their own once. Uh, Audrey, the problematic child is out of the picture. And you said it is a very dark comedy. Uh, your character is like, really steals the show in terms of just like the way your delivery of your lines. Very, very funny. Like, was it how stressful was that preparing for a movie and being like, okay, you've got like some serious heavy hitters in this film?

Yeah. And being like, huh, they've all done this before. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I the set I was on for latecomers was much smaller than this. Or like, we shot that in 13 days and suddenly we have six weeks and oh, wait, I'm also living away from home for the first time and with carers, and it's like crazy. And I'm having to play a teenager again, which is, um, slightly traumatic, like putting the school uniform on. I'm like having war flashbacks going, no, we swore we'd never do this again. Like, why? Why are we back here? Um. And yeah, I'm trying to keep up because, again, I'm an actor who doesn't have any formal training or qualification. We were joking before that. I very much stumbled into it, So I'm just trying to absorb as much as I possibly can. And I couldn't have picked kind of better people to learn from, I think, than like Jackie Van Beek, Jeremy Lindsay Taylor and Josephine Blazier. Like, they're all incredible actors and they all have very distinct processes that I was able to be like, oh, I like that bit. I'm not sure that bit's for me. Like, I'll, I'll try it like this. Um, and I was also really lucky to be able to kind of shape the character Nora alongside our screenwriter Lou Sands and our director, Natalie Bailey. So that was it was a real collaborative process.

Yeah. And being like, huh, they've all done this before. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I the set I was on for latecomers was much smaller than this. Or like, we shot that in 13 days and suddenly we have six weeks and oh, wait, I'm also living away from home for the first time and with carers, and it's like crazy. And I'm having to play a teenager again, which is, um, slightly traumatic, like putting the school uniform on. I'm like having war flashbacks going, no, we swore we'd never do this again. Like, why? Why are we back here? Um. And yeah, I'm trying to keep up because, again, I'm an actor who doesn't have any formal training or qualification. We were joking before that. I very much stumbled into it, So I'm just trying to absorb as much as I possibly can. And I couldn't have picked kind of better people to learn from, I think, than like Jackie Van Beek, Jeremy Lindsay Taylor and Josephine Blazier. Like, they're all incredible actors and they all have very distinct processes that I was able to be like, oh, I like that bit. I'm not sure that bit's for me. Like, I'll, I'll try it like this. Um, and I was also really lucky to be able to kind of shape the character Nora alongside our screenwriter Lou Sands and our director, Natalie Bailey. So that was it was a real collaborative process.

Yeah. I think people will really enjoy it. It's so it is so funny to me, the idea of that playing to an American audience, because some of the humor is so either uniquely Australian or uniquely weird and, you know, Americans, it's kind of you never know how they're going to take those things.

Yeah. I think people will really enjoy it. It's so it is so funny to me, the idea of that playing to an American audience, because some of the humor is so either uniquely Australian or uniquely weird and, you know, Americans, it's kind of you never know how they're going to take those things.

They laughed, which is good. But the first time they laughed, you could see us all in the in the cinema being like, oh, thank God, We're not going to get, like, booed out of here. Yeah.

They laughed, which is good. But the first time they laughed, you could see us all in the in the cinema being like, oh, thank God, We're not going to get, like, booed out of here. Yeah.

That's that's very funny. Uh, yeah. The performances are amazing. I think something that Jeremy Lindsay Taylor just makes me want to cry.

That's that's very funny. Uh, yeah. The performances are amazing. I think something that Jeremy Lindsay Taylor just makes me want to cry.

I know, I know, and I can't believe that this is the first time in his, like, decades long career that he's ever played a male lead in a film. And I'm like, what? Why? This is a tragedy. You should have been doing this the whole time. Yeah, that is seriously.

I know, I know, and I can't believe that this is the first time in his, like, decades long career that he's ever played a male lead in a film. And I'm like, what? Why? This is a tragedy. You should have been doing this the whole time. Yeah, that is seriously.

It's crazy. I didn't realize that. Yeah, he's very good in it. Do you think, like, having a look at, you know, again, I know we keep talking about your trajectory and stuff, and I don't want to be putting upon you this pressure, but go for it. Do you feel that when you look at the experiences that you're banking up, you've done TV, you've written a book? Like, do you have an idea vaguely of is it leading somewhere? Do you like could you see a world where you're like, you know what, I want to write my own film.

It's crazy. I didn't realize that. Yeah, he's very good in it. Do you think, like, having a look at, you know, again, I know we keep talking about your trajectory and stuff, and I don't want to be putting upon you this pressure, but go for it. Do you feel that when you look at the experiences that you're banking up, you've done TV, you've written a book? Like, do you have an idea vaguely of is it leading somewhere? Do you like could you see a world where you're like, you know what, I want to write my own film.

I hope so. Yeah, that that's definitely on the bucket list. I, I definitely have goals and things in the pipeline, but I think it's funny because when I was a kid, The two kind of things that existed in me as things I wanted to do was I wanted to be an I've wanted to be an author since I was four. And then I had a pretty intense period of wanting to be an actor, which was only snuffed out by the realization that disabled representation doesn't really exist, and that I was unlikely to get work as an actor, because there's a fundamental thing about me that I can't change when so many of the best actors, the ones that I absolutely adore, whether it's Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, all that kind of stuff, they really transform themselves every performance. Um, but to have done both of those things by age 25, I'm a bit like, oh, well, some people wait their whole lives and never get there, so how lucky am I? And also, like, I guess I have to move the goalposts a bit. I guess I have to think bigger. So we'll see what comes next. But yeah, hopefully it's creating stuff in front of and behind the scenes and writing novels and just doing all sorts of things that I can't even fathom doing right now.

I hope so. Yeah, that that's definitely on the bucket list. I, I definitely have goals and things in the pipeline, but I think it's funny because when I was a kid, The two kind of things that existed in me as things I wanted to do was I wanted to be an I've wanted to be an author since I was four. And then I had a pretty intense period of wanting to be an actor, which was only snuffed out by the realization that disabled representation doesn't really exist, and that I was unlikely to get work as an actor, because there's a fundamental thing about me that I can't change when so many of the best actors, the ones that I absolutely adore, whether it's Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, all that kind of stuff, they really transform themselves every performance. Um, but to have done both of those things by age 25, I'm a bit like, oh, well, some people wait their whole lives and never get there, so how lucky am I? And also, like, I guess I have to move the goalposts a bit. I guess I have to think bigger. So we'll see what comes next. But yeah, hopefully it's creating stuff in front of and behind the scenes and writing novels and just doing all sorts of things that I can't even fathom doing right now.

Having to revise your bucket list at 25 is a pretty impressive problem to have, I think.

Having to revise your bucket list at 25 is a pretty impressive problem to have, I think.

Yeah, yeah. I have to keep reminding myself how far I've come because again, comparison is the thief is the thief of joy, and I often look at my life and go, well, I've done all this great stuff, but like, I'm still living at home or I don't have a partner, or I've never been in a relationship or like, I'm not independent or I can't like, I can't drive. And it's like, well, actually all of those things are okay. Um, they would be okay whether or not I've done the amazing things I've done. But in light of the things that I have done, it's like, I think you can give yourself a break.

Yeah, yeah. I have to keep reminding myself how far I've come because again, comparison is the thief is the thief of joy, and I often look at my life and go, well, I've done all this great stuff, but like, I'm still living at home or I don't have a partner, or I've never been in a relationship or like, I'm not independent or I can't like, I can't drive. And it's like, well, actually all of those things are okay. Um, they would be okay whether or not I've done the amazing things I've done. But in light of the things that I have done, it's like, I think you can give yourself a break.

Yeah, but I guess that's the interesting thing, though, about, you know, like what we were talking about earlier. It's like you, you can reel off these achievements, but that doesn't mean like the other voice track in your head is not thinking about those things.

Yeah, but I guess that's the interesting thing, though, about, you know, like what we were talking about earlier. It's like you, you can reel off these achievements, but that doesn't mean like the other voice track in your head is not thinking about those things.

And I think you can achieve a lot of things and still be pretty miserable, as we know. Like how many times have we seen that play out? Mhm. Famous people who quote unquote are on top of the world and yet their internal world is absolutely crumbling. Um, so I'm really focused on how to turn all the external stuff, the stuff that looks good to everyone, scrolling through Instagram and looking at the highlight reels into something that feels good for me, who's living every moment of it, even the stuff people don't see. But then I also try to be really transparent about the hard bits on social media, too. Yeah.

And I think you can achieve a lot of things and still be pretty miserable, as we know. Like how many times have we seen that play out? Mhm. Famous people who quote unquote are on top of the world and yet their internal world is absolutely crumbling. Um, so I'm really focused on how to turn all the external stuff, the stuff that looks good to everyone, scrolling through Instagram and looking at the highlight reels into something that feels good for me, who's living every moment of it, even the stuff people don't see. But then I also try to be really transparent about the hard bits on social media, too. Yeah.

Because I think that would be, you know, especially other people, other disabled people who follow you would really appreciate seeing that. And especially like, you know, stuff like about dating and relationships. I think often that's the stuff that gets glossed over and, but that, you know, these are things that make people really happy every day.

Because I think that would be, you know, especially other people, other disabled people who follow you would really appreciate seeing that. And especially like, you know, stuff like about dating and relationships. I think often that's the stuff that gets glossed over and, but that, you know, these are things that make people really happy every day.

They do, they do. And I think all human beings want is to to have companionship of some, some kind. We're not built to be lonely islands or we're not built to be unheard or unseen. Um, as much as the world still does that for a lot of people. So I think at the end of the day, wanting connection is like the most basic human instinct ever. And unfortunately, the world is still built in ways that mean some people aren't ever even afforded the chance to try.

They do, they do. And I think all human beings want is to to have companionship of some, some kind. We're not built to be lonely islands or we're not built to be unheard or unseen. Um, as much as the world still does that for a lot of people. So I think at the end of the day, wanting connection is like the most basic human instinct ever. And unfortunately, the world is still built in ways that mean some people aren't ever even afforded the chance to try.

Do you feel that like, I mean, this may be a weird question, but like, I guess, again, because of the success of the last few years, like the dating situation has changed for you, you've been meeting more people.

Do you feel that like, I mean, this may be a weird question, but like, I guess, again, because of the success of the last few years, like the dating situation has changed for you, you've been meeting more people.

I have been meeting more people. That's true. There have been more situationships. Yeah. Let's just let's call it that. Like situations that I find myself in when I'm like, maybe this would work with this person, or at least like something about about latecomers and like acting out, that meant that it suddenly became something that felt possible in real life, which is a very strange feeling to have, because I think it was a box that I'd kind of closed or put a lid on for a while, because I think especially when you're a teenager, you know, you talk about that stuff with your peers all the time, but something that I come up against again and again and I did in high school, and I still do now, and I'm sure many other disabled people can relate, is the assumption that disabled people have to date other disabled people, and that's our only possibility for a partner. And to that I kind of go but but why like yeah. And people will go, oh but it's it's easier. And I'm like well easier for who? Easier for me. Easier for the other person in the relationship or easier for the invisible third party who then doesn't have to date me because they don't have to learn or change anything about their life to fit me in it. And I mean quite candidly, and I know that there are plenty of disabled couples who are happy with both of them being disabled, and that's that's great. But for me personally, I don't think I want a partner who's disabled. I might eat my words on that. There might be a fabulous disabled person out there who comes in and changes, changes everything. But I think the things that I want out of a relationship and the things that I'd be looking for are gaps I can't fill on my own. Yeah. So why would I want to put myself in a situation that compounds those gaps instead of compliments and possibly, like, fills them in a little bit?

I have been meeting more people. That's true. There have been more situationships. Yeah. Let's just let's call it that. Like situations that I find myself in when I'm like, maybe this would work with this person, or at least like something about about latecomers and like acting out, that meant that it suddenly became something that felt possible in real life, which is a very strange feeling to have, because I think it was a box that I'd kind of closed or put a lid on for a while, because I think especially when you're a teenager, you know, you talk about that stuff with your peers all the time, but something that I come up against again and again and I did in high school, and I still do now, and I'm sure many other disabled people can relate, is the assumption that disabled people have to date other disabled people, and that's our only possibility for a partner. And to that I kind of go but but why like yeah. And people will go, oh but it's it's easier. And I'm like well easier for who? Easier for me. Easier for the other person in the relationship or easier for the invisible third party who then doesn't have to date me because they don't have to learn or change anything about their life to fit me in it. And I mean quite candidly, and I know that there are plenty of disabled couples who are happy with both of them being disabled, and that's that's great. But for me personally, I don't think I want a partner who's disabled. I might eat my words on that. There might be a fabulous disabled person out there who comes in and changes, changes everything. But I think the things that I want out of a relationship and the things that I'd be looking for are gaps I can't fill on my own. Yeah. So why would I want to put myself in a situation that compounds those gaps instead of compliments and possibly, like, fills them in a little bit?

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point, and it makes a lot of sense to me. And it's probably again, just speaks to I think, as you said, there is still this element of like, you know, it would be it's like easier, I think, for the able bodied community to be like, oh, but obviously you'll date another disabled person. That makes sense.

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point, and it makes a lot of sense to me. And it's probably again, just speaks to I think, as you said, there is still this element of like, you know, it would be it's like easier, I think, for the able bodied community to be like, oh, but obviously you'll date another disabled person. That makes sense.

Like because then because then they don't have to think about it. Yeah.

Like because then because then they don't have to think about it. Yeah.

It's like and then everyone's happy like we did it guys. And yeah, it's, it's probably just a, a cultural societal thing that, you know, will obviously change. And yeah I think you talking about it more and people just talking about it more generally will kind of help engineer that change. It's hard to move the needle as you know better than anyone.

It's like and then everyone's happy like we did it guys. And yeah, it's, it's probably just a, a cultural societal thing that, you know, will obviously change. And yeah I think you talking about it more and people just talking about it more generally will kind of help engineer that change. It's hard to move the needle as you know better than anyone.

Yeah. It can often feel like pushing a boulder up a hill. I often have that Kate Bush song, um, running up that hill. Yeah, in my head. Yeah. That's kind of the soundtrack to me thinking about making progress, I think.

Yeah. It can often feel like pushing a boulder up a hill. I often have that Kate Bush song, um, running up that hill. Yeah, in my head. Yeah. That's kind of the soundtrack to me thinking about making progress, I think.

Well, look, uh, Hannah Diviney, thank you for joining. Good weekend talks.

Well, look, uh, Hannah Diviney, thank you for joining. Good weekend talks.

Thank you for having me. That was a great chat.

Thank you for having me. That was a great chat.

That was Thomas Mitchell interviewing actor, advocate and writer Hannah Diviney on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Coming soon! We chat with Olympic gold medal winning pole vaulter Nina Kennedy. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Kai Wong. Technical assistance from David McMillan. Editing from Conrad Marshall. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Katrina Strickland is the editor of Good Weekend.

That was Thomas Mitchell interviewing actor, advocate and writer Hannah Diviney on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Coming soon! We chat with Olympic gold medal winning pole vaulter Nina Kennedy. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Kai Wong. Technical assistance from David McMillan. Editing from Conrad Marshall. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Katrina Strickland is the editor of Good Weekend.