On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk chats with David Syvertsen, from OurLads Scouting Services, to give a primer for the 2025 NFL Draft, compare it to recent draft classes, and talk about the top prospects at each position.
:00 - Elite prospects
5:35 - Travis Hunter
11:59 - Abdul Carter
15:33 - Mason Graham
17:14 - Will Johnson
19:48 - Offensive tackles
24:43 - Edge rushers
26:42 - Quarterbacks
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Let's go, Giants, Get the Giants mobul, give me some job. Part of the Giants podcast Network. Let's Roll. Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. I am John Schmelk. Welcome back in front of the program. You'll be seeing him on our programming over the course the next couple of months. Getting ready for the NFL Draft. Dave Seversen, who covers the draft for our Lads dot com, Dave, how are you man?
Awesome? John, This is one of my favorite parts of the process right now because we don't have a lot of clarity on what the draft will look like in April because of free agency and coaching hires. So right now you have to look under every single stone, cross every t dot, every eye. And that's the best way to learn a bat a draft classes to dive headfirst. And I know we still both have a little ways to go, but really excited to get the ball rolling because it we're just having to start.
Yeah, and the only process is fun, right because we're not worrying about team needs, We're not worrying about, you know, things like that. We're just worried about the players. Who are these players, what are they about, where they've been in How does this draft class compared to other draft classes. And that's kind of what we're gonna do today. We're gonna set up primer for most football fans and NFL fans and Giant fans that haven't paid much attention to the draft over the past four or five months. Though I recommend you go check out Tony Paul and I on draft season you can catch up on all this stuff. But this will kind of be a one stop, half hour podcast. This is the draft class. This is what the Giants are looking at a three. This is what Giant fans have to worry about, all right, So let's start here. Dave and we kind of we chatting before we started. Not a great draft to be picking in the top ten last year was the opposite. The Giants are picking at six, and they got a player that could have went top one or two or three in most other drafts. This year not the case. Now, the Giants could be fortunate at three where one of the one or two what I would consider elite position players are sitting there for them. But why don't you kind of put the top ten of this draft class in context? And maybe last year's class and other classes fans might be familiar with what's.
Gonna be a standout trait to this draft class. And you'll see as we c this is going to become more and more clear that there is a growing trend in media in the league about the value of positions, premium positions, if you will, the tackles, the edge defenders, the quarterbacks, the wide receivers, and in this class, the best players don't play those positions. And some of the weak points of this draft class. And I don't want to say that there aren't good players. There are very good players at every single position in this draft. But when you're talking about the blue goose, the prime grades, the guys that you project to be all pros, they don't play those premium positions. So what I'm really interested to see in this draft how much does that matter in the top ten Because the best I would say, two of the best seven players in this draft, one is a tight end and one is a running back. But those guys, it's looked down upon if you draft them in the top ten.
And by the way, David, you can even argue another top guy play safety.
Yeah, absolutely, Malcos Starks. Absolutely. And then you talk about the defensive tackles other than Abdul Carter, who I'm sure we'll talk about the detackles in this group. I might take them over most of the edge defenders. And I do know the Dexter Lawrence contract and Aaron Donald changed the game a little bit. But the edge defender is still the premium position up front, but the players inside are better. So I'm really curious to see how much does that actually impact where a guy gets drafted.
No, you're right, and it was the opposite last year.
Right.
You had wide receivers, you had offensive tackles, you had all those types of positions that were super valuable as your quarterback obviously, and that's really not the case this year. So let's start with the non quarterbacks first, and no worry, Giant fans, we will get to the quarterbacks. But you mentioned who would you consider the elite position players in this year's class that you would be pretty comfortable and you can include position value in this if you want. That you would feel comfortable in pretty much any draft class. Drafting them in the top ten. Yeah.
I mean Bill in the school thought that you can take a running back, and I don't think the Giants are going to go down this path. I would bet against it, honestly, but ash Gent Ashton Genty is kind of like my personal prototype running back. The guy has led the country and broken tackles over the past few years. By country mile, he's got a PhD and just breaking through contact and contact bounds. He led the country in seventy sixty and fifty yard runs and the next guy was less than half the amount of what Genty did. I mean, we were talking about a legitimate Saquon Barkley caliber grade at that running back position. I think in any draft he's a top ten caliber guy. We just saw Bjon Robbinson go top ten. We've seen Detroit reach as we put it back in the day for Jamior Gibbs, and that's worked out pretty well. We're looking at the biggest running back contracts that were giving the offseason. The teams are still in the playoffs. I mean, that is a thing that I think we're gonna see happen in this draft, and it would happen in any draft. Ashon genty goes top ten. Tyler Warren to me is a TJ Hawk and saying a former top ten pick. He's another Brock Bauers caliber player, a different kind of player. He actually plays with his hand in the dirt and can block in line. But that's another guy that I would be comfortable taking in the top ten. But the question that I would love to get your input on if you've seen these guys so far at wide receiver, you know, we just saw that top three last year, Malik Neighbors, Marvin Harrison roma done say that was like the cream of the crop. But then you see names like Brian Thomas and Lad McConkie come in, and those guys had made the R Lads L Rookie team which comes out this week. I mean, do you really see a top ten a guy in this draft worthy of taking that high in the draft at that position? And that's where I get a little shaky. Is that wide receiver?
I would think about Ted McMillan at the bottom half of the top ten. That would be the one guy. I'm not a Luther burning guy, I want to pick him that high. I think the better question and now we can we can hit on Travis Hunter here, right, because he's kind of like the really unique player. If he was just a wide receiver and not also a cornerback, or if he was just a cornerback and not just a wide receiver, would he be a top ten player. My thought on that is if he was just a cornerback, yes, If he was just a wide receiver, no, where do you stand on that?
I see him as a wide receiver, body type, movement traits, and ball skills as Garrett Wilson. You know, he's in that scene like five eleven one and eighty pounds, slightly undersized, but unbelievably fast. I don't know if we truly know how fast this kid is. According to the GPS tracking, he was the second fastest player in all of college football last year out of sixty sixty nine hundred players. I mean, think about that. That's including Savior Worthy. You know, it's like, this is the kind of guy that might run four two is and you put a number like that on this kind of player. That's a top ten pick to me all day. But I understod my hesitation with drafting him high. I need full cohesion in the room of what the plan is for him. Are you actually going to try and play him both sides? It's never been done at a level that what he did in college. We've seen guys flash on both sides of the ball, but nothing what Travis Hunter did in college. Do we really think he can do that at the next level. And this is where the organizations that are constantly contecting the playoffs, there's cohesion from owner to front office to coaching staff. And I would love to try him on offense first. I think the upside of a corner is a little limited, not a very big guy. And I just think the way the league is right now, give me points, put points on the board, and you try to manufacture and good enough defense, especially for a team like the Giants who have just been in the cellar for so long and the offense has been the main issue for that long.
Okay, I'm gonna give you the counterpoint to that, because I think this is gonna be fun conversation that that's that we're gonna have for the next three months. Now. I think if you're going to try to do both, it's easier to be a full time corner and a part time wide receiver. You don't see many guys that all right, you're playing for fifteen snaps at corner. You have to know how to pass guys off. You don't have to work with your safeties. It's much easier to put together a twelve to fifteen play package on offense than it is to put together a twelve to fifteen play package on defense. And I do think just from a playing the wide receiver, you know, just skill wise and you know the ins and outs of it. I think he's much more raw than Garrett Wilson was coming out, for example, not as good as a rat runner of things like that. Even though I'm with you, I think the physical profile match is actually pretty pretty well. I haven't heard that one before. I think it's really good. That's my argument for why I'm thinking full time corner. But you still try to get your dozen plays on offense and you know two minute when it's a little simpler, big third down plays, you know, specific packages for him.
Yeah, I don't. I would never argue against being a corner and a part time offensive player because again, like I do think logistically it just makes more sense, and it's it's like defense and playing corner. We can see you Deante banks right now. You need a lot of reps to develop. You know, you can't just be talented to play corner. You need to get a lot of reps. And if you are gonna limit him on that side of the ball, the likelihood of him reaching the ceiling. But what we're saying right now, these are the conversations teams are going to have. You don't want to draft him and say we'll figure it out later. All those decisions need to be made prior to drafting him. And if you don't feel there is cohesion in that room, you will not reach the fantasy of what Travis Henner presents.
And by the way, real quick, what does he want to do? Right? Like? Is he all in on playing corner? Is he all in on playing wide receiver? I just want to pick this guy this high and try to force him into a spot. You know he might you know, I don't know. I'm just some guys might be thinking, well, just look at the average contract for a wide receiver versus the average contract for a corner. Why would I want to play cornerback? So I don't know what Hunter's thinking. Team's got to figure that out.
Too, yep. I mean, if you rattle off. You go into a sports bar and you give and you start talking about the top ten wide receivers in football. Everybody will know who you're talking about. Every time you bring up a new name. You bring up the ten best corners in football. Most of those guys will know the top three or four, but they don't know the rest, the marketing, the money opportunities, and is that what fuels him. I don't know Travis Hunter well enough to say yes or no, but I would say I would assume if I'm him and he's my son, wide receiver is the route to go, and you do have to. Those conversations with him will be crucial to what where he ends up going and how and what organization drafts him come April.
You know, David, I don't know if organizations think this way. And this week my last thing on Hunter, and I think if I'm picking the first position player, I think he's probably the first guy I pick. And I think the reason is simply this, I get two bites at the apple. Right. We've seen, for example, corners that get picked really high in this league flame out. It happens, right, It's just the way that it's a tough position to play.
Well.
You know what if you get through a year with Travis Hunter and you say, wait a second, I don't think this is gonna work. Well, you can just slow item hunt the offense, so you almost get two shots at the player at two different spots, which makes the chance of the pick failing even smaller. And to give yourself that type of safety net if the first position doesn't work out, I think that just gives you so much value and backstop as a front office to reduce the risk of your pick that if it doesn't work at corner, all right, let's Lineman wide receiver and we've already seen proof of concept at that spot in college.
You're you're exactly right. It's a hedge, and any big decision making, especially when it's an investment like this short term long term dividends, right, you, the proper way to do it is hedge where you can, and that it's a great hedge. The problem with the NFL if you're going to change the plan for him next year, now, it just becomes a really muddy situation. And that's why I think that you go into it saying this is what we're doing with him, and then if it doesn't work out after three or four years, Sure, you can kind of pivot to another side, But are you even going to be here in three to four years if it doesn't work out? So that's that's a really complex situation. It's one of the most unique I've ever seen since I started doing this.
Yeah, it really is. It's gonna be fun to kind of debate the other guy. And I'm with you. I think Jenti's a top ten guy. I'm not trying. I have not finished my warrant tape yet. I was gonna wait for the season to and and then kind of go through it all, and I'm gonna go try to go through it this week. So I'll push him aside just for me because I have not done my full study of him yet. I'll do. Carter's the other position guy that I'm very excited about. Oh yeah, and he's only his one season as a full edge rusher. Last year he was an off ball linebacker. He but he has that ridiculous speed off the edge to challenge the outside shoulder of the defensive tackle. He's learning a variety of moves. That's the other guy. Given the position that he plays in his athletic skill set Dave that I would say, all right, top five, I feel okay about picking this guy and his athletic upside and how he can, you know, be that three to four defensive end outside linebacker passing down's hand in the dirt rush the passer and he is going to you know, be that potentially that TJ. Watt type of outside guy that this is going to be a terror trying to rush the passer.
Yeah. I mean prior to the season, I had them as my number four overall player in the class. And it was a little bit of a reach at that point because all we saw were flashes as a pass rusher. But what I saw last year, there were a few times I watched this tape last summer I had to make sure it wasn't I didn't speed up the rate of watching one and a half speed. I mean, he literally looks like he's playing at a different speed than everyone else on the field. And then you see there's a physicality to him as well. You see the number eleven, you see the Penn State uniform. I hate a helmet scout. I try to avoid it, actually go out of my way to avoid it. It is impossible to not think about Micah Parsons when you're watching this kid play. I mean, their college tape was so similar. The way they pursue the ball across the field, what they can do from the middle of the field, what they can do from the out side. And the draw to an abdual Carter is that you are not going to have to pigeonhole him hole into one spot. You can truly move him around. And you know, a team like the Giants, you say, oh, we have Brian Burns, we have kvon Thibodeau. If he gets that fifth year, I mean, he will be back next year. And what they do with this fifth year option will be interesting to watch in the coming months. But even if they do both come back, you can still use this guy. You can use all three. You almost need all three. I mean, in my opinion, the Giants, one thing they need to do is that not one, but two more pass rushers to this front to give themselves an identity up front. So abdual Carter is not stockpiling too much talent at a position. It's adding another weapon to a defense that is very thirsty for more. We have weapons and explosive playmakers. My one question about Carter that I did not have about Parsons coming out, and this is a really important strait to the elite pass rushers in the NFL, is how good is his power game? Can he truly bull rush? Can he push a tackle back the lap of a passer? I mean, you look at all the top edge rushers in today's game, all of them, they all have that button they can push and say, you know what, I'm not going around you, i am going through you. I mean, we just saw Jared Verst, who will win the Defensive Rookie of the Year that award. This there's a lot of sloppiness to his game. He is one of the most powerful ed rushers right away. That translates to the NFL. And that's the one question I have about Abdull Carter.
Yeah, you know, we never got the full season at edge rusher for Parsons, right, That's the reasons he dropped outside the top ten. We only saw like Parsons last year at Penn State was like Carter's previous season right where we saw flashes. He didn't know if he was a pass rusher or not. So yeah, I'm with you on that. So pass those two guys. You mentioned the running back in the tight end, we mentioned the safety. If you're picking and you have a blank slate team, so position value matters, who is your next non quarterback position player that you would have on the board after Carter and Hunter.
I feel incredibly safe with Mason Graham. Yeah, and I also feel that there's a ceiling to him that can be one of the top defensive tackles in all the football. Watching this Michigan defensive tackle group was very reminiscent of what we saw at Clemson years ago when we had Christian Wilkins and Dexter Lawrence playing next to each other. Very different players, different draft projections. Christian Wilkins went Top ten, Dexter Lawrence, as we know, was in the middle of the first round. And now I would even say I like Dexter Lawrence more than Wilkins. But when I'm watching these two guys play, it's the same exact feel that I get. Kenneth Grant has this really high ceiling, but he's got a few things he's got to really develop from an arsenal and technique perspective. Mason Graham, as much as we want to be drawn in by the pressure rate and what he can do against one on one blocking as he rushes the passer. He is an elite run defender. I mean this is in every down four set is both quicker and more powerful. He's got the wrestling background. He's going to test out as well as anyone in the defensive tackle group. I feel very safe with this guy. Floor end ceiling.
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Johnson Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. From game day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can get the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn more at citizens bank dot com slash Giants. All Right, you went Michigan, sew me and Will Johnson. I've watched his tape for two years and a lot of people still have him in their top five. And look, I get the appeal. He's long, he has these interceptions. I get all that on tape. I just see way too many easy catches in the front of him that are uncontested. I don't see enough pressman, and I can't wrap my head around selecting him as a top five pick. Tell me why I'm right or wrong.
I think you're right. I think he's top fifteen. But a top five corner to me is what we've seen in Derek Stingley and Sauce Gardner. Guys that you know right away are going to be your quarterback, your number one corner, and they have the ceiling of being a true shutdown guy, which I believe there's probably there's a handful of them. So to really say you're a top five corner at a position, just like wide receiver every year there it's a very deep group. It's the way the kids are playing football now, all the way from youth to high school to college are there is so much talent at the position that if I am going to use a top five pick on this position, he better be a special I better project him to be an all Pro caliber guy. And Will Johnson, to me, the measurables are there. The five star recruit, the highlight reel is impressive. If that's all you've seen so far, the pick six is the anticipation, But I don't know if I trust him being on an island alone with some of the best receivers in the game because he's afraid of getting beat deep. Is there a speed issue? I don't know, is there? I mean, we'll see his tests out. He's very quick, He's got great jumps in his history, but the long speed will be the question with him. And he plays like that too. Another thing I don't like about Will Johnson and I and one of the few left that do care about this. He is not a physical player. If you watch his tape against the Run, He's the kind of guy that makes a lot of business decisions and we're seeing. Part of the issue that Giants fans have right now with Deontay Banks is the effort. Is it always there? Does he really want to put his hat in there. I've had a scout told me that, hey, we pay the other ten guys to tackle. We pay the other ten guys to give me the corner that can cover. But unless you have Deion Sanders caliber coverage ability, I need you to at least contribute in that element of the game. And physicality, to me goes deeper than just run defense. It comes down to effort, pressing, guys at the line, so Will Johnson. To me, there are a lot of good traits, there are not enough elite traits, and there are a couple holes that would prevent me from taking him in the time.
All right, two other spots I want to hit on before we jumped to the quarterbacks here, David Yah. So I'm sure everyone's waiting for that, all right, offensive tackle. I don't see any of these guys's top ten picks. I know, you watch Kelvin Banks. You know, you just watch a guy and you say, that guy feels like a really good offensive tackle to me. He moves like a guard to me, and he looks like a guard to me. You know, good player. I would be happy picking him in the first round, in the top fifteen, top twenty, I'd be good with that. You know, Will Campbell. I know his arm length is a big question for a lot of people, but I do think he is tackle feet. I think he moves well, and I think he's athletic enough out there. I think he's very solid in how he plays. But unlike you know, last last year when we had all those tackles early, I mean, these guys would probably be you know, tackle four maybe in last year's draft for me, like, they don't have me as excited as last year's class for sure.
Yeah, I mean, John, last year we had nine offensive linemen taken in the first round. We had six in the second, we had ten in the third. I mean that is twenty five total offensive lineman taking the first three rounds. We have that fresh in our memory. That's not normal. Last year's group was not a normal group. To even put these guys in the same discussion would be disrespectful to last year's group. Then I have written on my notes right now the one position I'm most worried about. If I'm a team looking to add a player at it's this position. I'm worried about the tackles. The top guys Will Campbell, Kelvin Banks, Emery Jones, Greys Abel. I mean that's four of the top six guys in this group. They might be better at guard at the next level. Will Campbell to me, is Peter Skronski a guy that can play tackle, but probably the length concerns and just his sheer ability to anchor and play with power, he probably should play inside.
But he question, do you think he is the power in the run game? To move people because you watch his run blocking a tackle and you know this isn't the guy that's guy going to finish through the whistle on a lot of these plays, you know, in certain schemes.
I think he'll be much better what Dominic Pooney had done in San Francisco that wide zone, Like that's the kind of guy that I think he could be at the next level. But to answer your question, that's not top ten.
And by the way, I was worried about Pooni's power last year too, which is why I was kind of on the fence with him. But that has worked out for San Francisco.
And that could be scheme based, Like if he got drafted by a different team. We're not talking about a guy that made the r lads Al rookie team. We're talking about someone that might not even been a factor this year. The one guy that I like the most is the one that tours ACL in October. Now, Josh Simmons from Ohio State. His tape was starting to trend towards the best left tackle tape we were watching all year the ACL and jury. But he's out, He's in the draft this year and he probably will be back. Just based on historical data with tackles, not players tackles tearing the ACL. He should be back for training camp. I don't know if he'll be ready for the start of the season, but that, to me is the guy that I would want if I'm looking left tackle. That's the guy I feel safe with. Another one that we're gonna get to watch down in Mobile at the Senior Bowl Josh Connelly from Oregon. He's a guy that he has probably the best work in the drafts. He's very twitchy, he's very bounced. That to me is a big deal with offensive line evaluation at tackle. How balanced are you? And he's got the best in the group. The last name I want you to keep an eye on put him on your list is Armin Membu from Missouri. He'll also be at staable and.
I watched him last week. I love him. He is the top of the second round guy for me, end of the first He is very good at tackle. I was impressed with him. You want to slide him out of right tackle day one, I'd be very very happy to do that.
And that's exactly what you just said. You said top of round two, John. If I'm a team looking to add offensive line talent. I'm not considering round one for two reasons. The gap between the top three and the next six might not even exist. They're all gonna be very similar grades, and I'm gonna use that premium resource elsewhere on the roster. But over the last four drafts, over seventy percent of the guys drafted offensive lineman rounds two and three have panned out to be at least quality starter. I mean, if you go look at the lists of names that get drafted Day two, round two, and round three, that's the sweet spot for the offensive line. And I do think come draft time last year as an anomaly. All Right, those guys deserve to be top picks. We can reach for offensive line because you're afraid that there might not be anything left Day two this year. Every year, there's plenty of talent left Day two. Be patient on the offensive line this year, don't reach, You'll still be You'll walk away with guys that you can work.
With, especially now looking for a Day one left tackle. Those guys sometimes you have to think a little bit earlier. But if you're okay guard, center or right tackle, I think you're right. I'm with you. You can draft them a little bit later.
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Johns Total Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giant. Citizens will donate seven hundred and fifty dollars for the Giants Foundation for each score and drive during the twenty twenty four season. Learn more at citizensbank dot com slash Giants Real Quick Gands. Before we get the quarterbacks, the two Georgia edges. I don't know if I like any either of the ten picks. I think I like Jalen Walker better than Mike Kyle Williams in my opinion, But again, I think they're more like top fifteen seventeen guys that necessarily feel super comfortable with them in the top ten.
They're both projection based. I mean, Jalen Walker has not made that. Abdul Carter moved to the outside full time. He played a lot of off ball linebacker this year, and his tape you can clearly tell that's just not going to be his future at the NFL level. But he does have a little bit more power. I talked about the shortcoming of Abdul Carter's power, potentially holding him back a little bit early on. Jalen Walker has that power. He plays very low. He's got incredibly strong hands, but a lot of his production came from secondary effort, which is fine, you want that, but he did not beat a lot of tackles right away with a wide arsenal of moves, and that does concern me a little bit. With there was not a lot of just natural quick wins. I mean, NFL is all about getting quick pressure, not just pressure quick pressure, because these guys get the ball out so fast, and Javin Walker is explosive enough, but he does get stalled out by quality tackles a little too long too often. MIKEL Williams is a very ironically similar situation to what Trevon Walker was a couple of years ago. Someone that checks every single box you want physically, but it has not turned into a lot of production yet. And that's gonna be a defensive line coach saying, hey, I can make that guy into a special player. The scout perspective says, hey, I like the upside of him, but he hasn't done it enough on a consistent basis to really put a high label on him yet. So you are right. I think top twenty, top fifteen for both, but not top ten.
All right, let's go to the quarterbacks. Here will be we Bury the lead if you took these top two quarterbacks and maybe those aren't clearly your top two in Ward and Sanders, we can have that conversation too. But if you put this group and combined it with last year's group, when would the first quarterback for you show up? I have cam Ward probably around my JJ McCarthy range from last year, and then I probably a little further back. And again this is not based on what they've done first year in the NFL. This is just based on their pre draft analysis last year. I would probably have shoudor somewhere in that kind of b nix penix type of territory for me.
Yeah, I'm with you. In terms of stacking those top two guys, I had JJ McCarthy pretty high. I had him as number three last year, slightlyhead of Drake May So I have cam Ward more in that in the tier under those guys, I had four guys last year that I would really take at the top of any draft, and that's Jayden Daniels, Kayleb Williams, JJ McCarthy, Drake may Kim. Ward is right under those guys, and it's because he's not as clean. His footwork is a disaster. He's made a lot of bad decisions under pressure. But the armtown is legit. I like the ethos he presents. He's a playmaker. Cam Ward is a guy that will make plays in big moments. The comeback he had at California this year was still to this day one of the most impressive fourth quarter comebacks I've ever seen a quarterback ever do. And it was all on his arm. He has that kind of ability to take over a game and.
Then to your point, real fast. We watched jam Daniels last night, right, So, calm pressure in big moments, Yeah, cam Ward never looks flustered. He's always calm, relaxed and poised.
It's a it's a yeah. They call that the slow pulse, like the heart rate never spikes up no matter what, never too excited. Did you see his reaction after the game when he feels go It's like he kind of just was like all right, on to the next week. Do you want that. You don't want a guy that's too too excited about winning. You don't want a guy that gets too upset about losing. But there are there's a lack of polish to him. This is a zero star recruit that played a wing t offense in high school. He started off at incarnet word. I mean, we're not talking about a guy that had a lot of professional caliber development and coaching growing up. And you could look at that from a perspective of saying, hey, we're not even close to this kid's ceiling. Shouldar Sanders? On the other hand, he is unbelievably polished. I love his release, I love his footwork. But the guy's probably had, to be honest with you, the best quarterback coaching anyone could ever have from being a young kid being Dione Sun. So is he already at his ceiling? Is there anything better that can he get better at? Anything left? So? Is there anything left to get better at? In his arsenal? But there's a thing to Shuldar Sanders that I do think owners, once they start getting involved in these decisions, He's going to make a team relevant. You might like, I think Giants fans, if you want to keep the discussion in there. They want to win, all right, but there are owners out there. They want to be relevant, they want the primetime games, they want people looking at them and talking about them. Shoulder Sanders, and that can help some young players. I mean, I think a Shardar Sanders Malik neighbors relationship has a lot of potential. They could feed off each other, get the both the best out of each other. So those two of the guys are probably gonna be in the first round discussion. But the one interesting component to this quarterback class, and as you watch more guys, I think you're gonna start to see this the gap between cam Ward and Shreder Sanders. And then you have your next group of guys, Jackson Dart, Jalon Milroe, Will Howard, even Dylan Gabriel. It's not that big. It's just not a big gap. Where last year we saw a record amount of picks go between bo Nix and Spencer Rattler in round five, there was an enormous gap between the top guys and everybody else. I don't see a big gap. I do think in certain scenarios there are some advanced metrics that Jackson Dart is actually the best quarterback under pressure in this group. And when I say pressure, I'm not talking about high pressure situations. I'll talk about the actual pass rush. And you know because he did. Jackson Dart did kind of blow it at Florida. It was a really rough last two minutes of the game for him, and he did the same thing at LSU. Did not respond well to high leverage situations. But his talent, his arm talent, his ability to respond to a pass rush, which is often a make or break for a young quarterback, it's right there. So Jalen Milroe has the most explosive electric talent, but he's light years behind these guys as a passer. Will Howard is now starting to show who we thought he was last summer. I thought him at a top five quarterback, had a rough start, but he checks a lot of boxes when you're looking for the old school prototype. So the question to me is in this quarterback class, do these top two guys really stand out enough? And it's a theme of the class, and it comes back to this positional value that we started off with. Are these guys really worth taking that high in the draft simply because of position or can you get an equal or a similar graded player around later.
Yeah, or even top round three, right, I think, yeah, I don't think there's any guarantee Jackson darts going top round two. I don't know what teams think about him, you know, Milroe. I think someone will fall in love with his physical attributes and they'll pick him high. But yeah, I'm with you, and you know, I think teams are gonna have to be patient with this quarterback class. Right. This is not gonna be where you have three or four guys where you're gonna plug in a really five for last year and they're gonna look good right away. Like it's that that's just not gonna happen. I don't think with this class. I think your best chance is probably Shadoor that you can you know, he's been with Pat Scharmer, an NFL offense, he's been to your point coach up really well, that's the guy I think that you can probably feel good about. Put him right in. You're gonna get competent play. But again he is and it's funny. People probably don't think about it this way, but he's missing figure. Dion Sunny's gonna be like this hyperathlete. He's not a hyperathlete, he's like a boring pocket passer, like that's what and that's fine, that's okay. Yeah, But like we saw with Jayden Daniels even on Sunday Night, that being mobile for a young quarterback fixes so many mistakes that you make as a passer and a and a processor that I'm not sure Chador is gonna have that in his bag right away, which I think is the only thing that could hold him back a little bit early. While Ward not a hyper athlete, I think he's a little bit slipperier, right, and can make guys missing the pocket maybe a little bit more. Yeah.
Absolutely, I mean, Kim Ward, that is the word. It's slippery. He is really good at evading pressure and he can feel the pressure. That's one thing I don't like about Standers game. Sanders game kind of reminds me of a seven on seven quarterback where there are there are no offensive line and there are no defensive linemen. You kind of just sit back there and just kind of wait, wait a little too long. And there is a lot of talk about how poor his offensive line was, especially last year, he was responsible for just as much of the pressure that he took on himself because he doesn't feel the pass rush. Kim Wore can feel it. And it's hard to measure with the number, and you know we're obsessed with analytics and numbers now, it's really hard to measure this. But when you watch it, you can see it. Kim Ward, Patrick Mahomes. These guys they know where the pressure is almost before it even gets there. I don't see that in Sanders game. And like you said, he's not fast enough to evade the way he did in college. He's just not He's not a big guy either, John, He's right now. Measurement I have on him is is just over six foot two five. I mean that is really small for NFL standards unless you have a special athletic ability, which he does not that that's a concern for me. Is that seis metric.
I'm with your final question. I got a heart out here. You mentioned offensive tackle being maybe a weaker part of this draft class. I had great defensive tackle being a stronger part of this draft class. I agree. Any other the positions stick out to you is either being particularly strong or weak. As you get into day two and day three of.
The class, this tight end group might be one of the best we've ever seen. And we have that. We have the superstar at the start at the top, and Tyler Warren, but then we have breakout studs and Helm from Texas bringing school from Clemson, Arroyo from Miami. He'll be down the Senior Bowl, you know, the Michian yep. And he had an off year. I mean, he came into the year as the top guy. I think there's gonna be I have nine grades right now that I think are going to be Round one or two or three, so starting caliber players. That number is rarely over six, and it where I'm adding pretty fifty percent of that to this group. So and all different kinds of tight ends, to guys with size and can play in line, and guys that can brock bowers it and be a wide receiver type player. Harold Fannon is a guy that has like a wild card future to him. We're gonna see him down in Senior Bowl. Him and Tyler Warren combined for twenty eight hundred parts this year. Dude, I mean it was. It's an incredible group that I think has a lot of upside.
And then any group that you think is particularly weak besides offensive tackle, I.
Mean, I feel like I'm saying this year after year now. But the linebackers, I just don't see more than a handful of guys that really can project to be every down players. Ie. I see a couple of specialty type players, but the top of the linebacker group I'm just not that excited about. And I don't see a lot of depth either.
Dave, this is awesome. Tell the folks whether you can find all your work of this year.
Yeah, our lads dot com. We also you could sign up for a newsletter there that that's a three day per week newsletter that we're sending out. We just started this last week Monday, Wednesday Friday. I'm putting a lot of effort into those and our Lads underscore on X. I'm being very active there between now and then, and give the YouTube channel, our Lads YouTube channel a look. We have mock drafts coming up, a came Word Versitar Sanders video coming up, and we're gonna be putting out as much content as we can between now and then. I'll also be at the Senior Bowl, so look for me out there.
Nice we can hang out and look forward to We're booking our flights next couple of days, I'll be a trying to to check out your door, so that should be a lot of fun. Save good stuff, enjoy the process, and we'll catch up later on.
Okay, thanks Sean, we'll talk soon.
Dave Severton from our Lads dot Com, we thank you for joining us on The Giants Total Podcast, brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. We'll see you next time. Everybody,