On this special episode, Eric Ries, author of the 2011 bestseller "The Lean Startup," discusses his new book, "Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great."

Ries explains why he's redefining profit as the maximization of human flourishing, reveals his role advising Anthropic's founders on their corporate structure, and makes the case that the era of shareholder primacy is already over. He also discusses the fall of Whole Foods, the Musk v. OpenAI trial, and why he believes mission-controlled companies dramatically outperform.

GeekWire's Todd Bishop recorded this conversation with Ries after interviewing him on stage at Seattle Flow Startup Day on May 15.