Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt have more in common than a first name: They’re also fanatics about numbers. GeekWire’s Todd Bishop sat down with Dubner and Levitt, founders of the popular Freakonomics podcast and books, at Microsoft’s Data Insights Summit this week. On this episode of the GeekWire podcast, the three talk about everything from healthcare to Amazon to how data is changing the world.

Follow all our coverage, including more about Microsoft's Data Insights Summit, at GeekWire.com

Thank you to this week’s sponsors:

Wealthsimple — GeekWire listeners pay  no management fees for a year when they invest up to $15,000 on Wealthsimple’s automated investing platform. Wealthsimple.com/geekwire

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Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt have more in common than a first name: They’re also fanatics about numbers. GeekWire’s Todd Bishop sat down with Dubner and Levitt, founders of the popular Freakonomics podcast and books, at Microsoft’s Data Insights Summit this week. On this episode of the GeekWire podcast, the three talk about everything from healthcare to Amazon to how data is changing the world. Follow all our coverage, including more about Microsoft's Data Insights Summit, at <a href="http://www.geekwire.com/">GeekWire.com</a> Thank you to this week’s sponsors: <a href="https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/">Wealthsimple</a> — GeekWire listeners pay <a href="https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/geekwire?utm_source=geekwire&utm_medium=brand&utm_term=splash&utm_content=3_2017&utm_campaign=newsletter"> no management fees for a year</a> when they invest up to $15,000 on Wealthsimple’s automated investing platform. Wealthsimple.com/geekwire <a href="https://www.godaddy.com/">GoDaddy</a> — who is offering GeekWire listeners 35 percent off their purchase of a GoDaddy domain. Just use offer code gearedup35 at checkout, goddaddy.com.

GeekWire brings you the week's latest technology news, trends and insights, covering the world of technology from our home base in Seattle. Our regular news podcast features commentary and analysis from our editors and reporters, plus interviews with special guests.

GeekWire reporters John Cook, Todd Bishop and guests talk about the latest tech news and trends.

GeekWire

Freakonomics founders on how data is changing the world

A message from GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop: This episode of the GeekWire Podcast is unlike any we’ve done before. It touches on some of the most contentious and disputed issues in the tech industry, and in the world more broadly. 

It started with my curiosity and desire to understand something that happened in March, at GeekWire’s independent Microsoft @ 50 event. I was on stage interviewing Microsoft Vice Chair and President Brad Smith when the conversation was interrupted by a protester. 

The group behind the protest, called No Azure for Apartheid, represents current and former Microsoft employees who want the company to end its cloud computing and AI contracts with the Israeli military. They cite concerns over how they believe their work is being used by Israel.

Addressing the larger issues raised by the group, Microsoft said in a May 15 post that it conducted internal and external reviews and “found no evidence to date that Microsoft’s Azure and AI technologies have been used to target or harm people in the conflict in Gaza.” 

After covering Microsoft’s statements and the group’s response — and seeing the continued protests unfold at Microsoft events — I decided to dig deeper and learn more. 

As part of that, I invited one of the organizers of No Azure for Apartheid to join me on this podcast, for a conversation about the motivations behind the group, their views on Microsoft’s responsibilities, and how the tech industry intersects with international conflicts. 

Our guest is software engineer Hossam Nasr, who was fired by Microsoft last year related to protests on the Microsoft campus. In fact, he was the first to protest inside the GeekWire event.

What followed was a complex conversation — one that at times went beyond Microsoft’s role into broader political and ethical criticisms of Israel’s actions in Gaza. 

These are deeply polarizing issues, and we know there are strong, divergent opinions about them. I’ve added context conveying Microsoft’s responses, and noting areas where statements and characterizations about Israel, Palestine, and Gaza are the subject of dispute. 

The conversation includes detailed descriptions of the ongoing conflict in Gaza and some historical comparisons that some listeners may find disturbing or offensive. And lastly, we recorded this conversation in late May, before the latest developments in the Middle East.

Related Links: 
Microsoft:Statement on the Issues Relating to Technology Services in Israel and Gaza
Associated Press: As Israel uses US-made AI models in war, concerns arise about tech’s role in who lives and who dies
AP:Microsoft fires employees who organized vigil for Palestinians killed in Gaza
+972:Leaked documents expose deep ties between Israeli army and Microsoft
The Verge: Microsoft blocks emails that contain ‘Palestine’ after employee protests
Guardian:Microsoft deepened ties with Israeli military to provide tech support during Gaza war

Editing by Curt Milton. Read more at GeekWire.com.

A message from GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop: This episode of the GeekWire Podcast is unlike any we&rsquo;ve done before. It touches on some of the most contentious and disputed issues in the tech industry, and in the world more broadly.&nbsp;
It started with my curiosity and desire to understand something that happened in March, at GeekWire&rsquo;s independent&nbsp;<a href="https://www.geekwire.com/2025/microsoft50-recap-company-faithful-mark-first-50-years-and-look-to-future-at-geekwire-event/">Microsoft @ 50 event</a>. I was on stage interviewing Microsoft Vice Chair and President Brad Smith when the conversation was interrupted by a protester.&nbsp;
The group behind the protest, called <a href="https://noazureforapartheid.com/">No Azure for Apartheid</a>, represents current and former Microsoft employees who want the company to end its cloud computing and AI contracts with the Israeli military. They cite concerns over how they believe their work is being used by Israel.
Addressing the larger issues raised by the group, Microsoft said in <a href="https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/05/15/statement-technology-israel-gaza/">a May 15 post</a> that it conducted internal and external reviews and &ldquo;found no evidence to date that Microsoft&rsquo;s Azure and AI technologies have been used to target or harm people in the conflict in Gaza.&rdquo;&nbsp;
After <a href="https://www.geekwire.com/2025/microsoft-no-evidence-israeli-military-used-its-technology-to-harm-civilians-reviews-find/">covering</a> Microsoft&rsquo;s statements and the group&rsquo;s response &mdash; and seeing the continued protests unfold at Microsoft events &mdash; I decided to dig deeper and learn more.&nbsp;
As part of that, I invited one of the organizers of No Azure for Apartheid to join me on this podcast, for a conversation about the motivations behind the group, their views on Microsoft&rsquo;s responsibilities, and how the tech industry intersects with international conflicts.&nbsp;
Our guest is software engineer Hossam Nasr, who was fired by Microsoft last year related to protests on the Microsoft campus. In fact, he was the first to protest inside the GeekWire event.
What followed was a complex conversation &mdash; one that at times went beyond Microsoft&rsquo;s role into broader political and ethical criticisms of Israel&rsquo;s actions in Gaza.&nbsp;
These are deeply polarizing issues, and we know there are strong, divergent opinions about them. I&rsquo;ve added context conveying Microsoft&rsquo;s responses, and noting areas where statements and characterizations about Israel, Palestine, and Gaza are the subject of dispute.&nbsp;
The conversation includes detailed descriptions of the ongoing conflict in Gaza and some historical comparisons that some listeners may find disturbing or offensive. And lastly, we recorded this conversation in late May, before the latest developments in the Middle East.
Related Links:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Microsoft: <a href="https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/05/15/statement-technology-israel-gaza/">Statement on the Issues Relating to Technology Services in Israel and Gaza</a></li>
<li>Associated Press: <a href="https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/best-of-the-week/first-winner/2025/as-israel-uses-u-s-made-ai-models-in-war-concerns-arise-about-techs-role-in-who-lives-and-who-dies/">As Israel uses US-made AI models in war, concerns arise about tech&rsquo;s role in who lives and who dies</a></li>
<li>AP: <a href="https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-fired-workers-israel-palestinians-gaza-72de6fe1f35db9398e3b6785203c6bbf">Microsoft fires employees who organized vigil for Palestinians killed in Gaza</a></li>
<li>+972: <a href="https://www.972mag.com/microsoft-azure-openai-israeli-army-cloud/">Leaked documents expose deep ties between Israeli army and Microsoft</a></li>
<li>The Verge: <a href="https://www.theverge.com/tech/672312/microsoft-block-palestine-gaza-email">Microsoft blocks emails that contain &lsquo;Palestine&rsquo; after employee protests</a></li>
<li>Guardian: <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/23/israeli-military-gaza-war-microsoft">Microsoft deepened ties with Israeli military to provide tech support during Gaza war</a></li>
</ul>
Editing by Curt Milton. Read more at&nbsp;<a href="https://www.geekwire.com/">GeekWire.com</a>.

Inside the Microsoft protests: Fired engineer on Palestine, Israel, AI, and big tech

Fifteen years ago, Steve Jobs and Apple had just introduced the first iPad, Steve Ballmer’s Microsoft had been left for dead, and nerdy online bookseller Jeff Bezos was still getting Amazon settled into its South Lake Union HQ. That’s when we started this podcast.

This week, we’re going back to 2010, revisiting clips from the earliest days of the show. We remember what was happening with Amazon, Microsoft, and Seattle’s startup scene, and try to wrap our heads around all the things that have changed since then.

With GeekWire co-founders Todd Bishop and John Cook.

Audio editing by Curt Milton.

 

Fifteen years ago, Steve Jobs and Apple had just introduced the first iPad, Steve Ballmer&rsquo;s Microsoft had been left for dead, and nerdy online bookseller Jeff Bezos was still getting Amazon settled into its South Lake Union HQ.&nbsp;That&rsquo;s when we started this podcast.
This week, we&rsquo;re going back to 2010, revisiting clips from the earliest days of the show. We remember what was happening with Amazon, Microsoft, and Seattle&rsquo;s startup scene, and try to wrap our heads around all the things that have changed since then.
With GeekWire co-founders Todd Bishop and John Cook.
Audio editing by Curt Milton.
&nbsp;

15 years of the GeekWire Podcast: Amazon, Microsoft, and the transformation of Seattle tech

This week on the GeekWire Podcast, we discuss Amazon's new licensing deal with The New York Times for AI content training, and go behind the scenes at two different office spaces: Microsoft's redeveloped Redmond campus and Remitly's new Seattle HQ.


Amazon inks deal with New York Times to license newspaper’s content for AI platforms


Rebooting Redmond: Microsoft’s new campus reflects ongoing transformation, uncertain future


A world away in the heart of Seattle: Remitly’s new HQ provides more room to collaborate — and grow

With GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop and reporter Kurt Schlosser. 

This week on the GeekWire Podcast, we discuss Amazon's new licensing deal with The New York Times for AI content training, and go behind the scenes at two different office spaces: Microsoft's redeveloped Redmond campus and Remitly's new Seattle HQ.
<ul>
<li>
<a href="https://www.geekwire.com/2025/amazon-inks-deal-with-new-york-times-to-license-newspapers-content-for-ai-platforms/">Amazon inks deal with New York Times to license newspaper&rsquo;s content for AI platforms</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.geekwire.com/2025/rebooting-redmond-microsofts-new-campus-reflects-ongoing-transformation-uncertain-future/">Rebooting Redmond: Microsoft&rsquo;s new campus reflects ongoing transformation, uncertain future</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.geekwire.com/2025/a-world-away-in-the-heart-of-seattle-remitlys-new-hq-provides-more-room-to-collaborate-and-grow/">A world away in the heart of Seattle: Remitly&rsquo;s new HQ provides more room to collaborate &mdash; and grow</a>
</li>
</ul>
With GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop and reporter Kurt Schlosser.&nbsp;

Freakonomics founders on how data is changing the world

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