In this episode I speak with Paul Chiusano (@pchiusano), creator of Unison, about his ambitious vision for the future, where we can abstract over distributed computing, and there are no apps.

In this episode I speak with Paul Chiusano (<a class="ProfileHeaderCard-screennameLink u-linkComplex js-nav" href="https://twitter.com/pchiusano">@pchiusano</a>), creator of <a href="unisonweb.org">Unison</a>, about his ambitious vision for the future, where we can abstract over distributed computing, and there are no apps.

A romp through the field of computer programming, grapling with our history and wondering what should come next. A mix of deeply technical talk, philosophy, art, dark lore, and good takes. Hosted by Ivan Reese, Jimmy Miller, and Lu Wilson.

A romp through the field of computer programming, grapling with our history and wondering what should come next. A mix of deeply technical talk, philosophy, art, dark lore, and good takes. Hosted by <a href="https://ivanish.ca/">Ivan Reese</a>, <a href="https://jimmyhmiller.github.io/">Jimmy Miller</a>, and <a href="https://todepond.com/">Lu Wilson</a>.

Future of Coding

An imaginative, ruminative romp through the land of poisoned sand. What even are computers, where did they come from, and how might we make them radically different. Hosted by Ivan Reese, Jimmy Miller, and Lu Wilson.

An imaginative, ruminative romp through the land of poisoned sand. What even are computers, where did they come from, and how might we make them radically different. Hosted by <a href="https://ivanish.ca/">Ivan Reese</a>, <a href="https://jimmyhmiller.github.io/">Jimmy Miller</a>, and <a href="https://todepond.com/">Lu Wilson</a>.

Unison's Paul Chiusano on how Abstraction Will Save Distributed Computing

A classic "80-year predictions" episode. How did we do, humanity?

Links

$ Patreon
We're considering changing The Name of the FoC community, podcast, et cetera.
Transatlantic Accent, and all the ships at sea.
This episode's advertisements: Ex-Lax, Mifflin, et cetera.
The New Media Reader is a good read(er).
Blue Prince is surely everyone's 2025 GOTY. You'll find ample discussion of its twisty design in our bonus feed.
Oppenheimer was probably my least favourite David Nolen movie.
ENIAC was, for a time, the computer.
Engelbart
The Polaroid instant camera dates back to the 1940s!
Google Glass and Ray-Ban Meta, sigh
Wikipedia's List of Existing Technologies Predicted in Science Fiction
Apparently microfilm and microfiche are both instances of microform.
Boy Milk, no explanation needed.
Sean M. Carroll, physicist.
Claude Shannon, information theorist ;)
AI Is Not Your Friend appeared in The Atlantic on May 9th, 2025.
Amazon Mechanical Turk is "artificial artificial intelligence".
Awesome GitHub lists
Daring Fireball and Kottke.org are two long-running blogs that helped popularize the "linkblog" form.
The Wirecutter was our previous top pick for product recommendations, but their history of shilling junk and our growing concerns about e-waste have led us to downgrade them in our rankings.
Devine (the other Lu) maintains a pair of wikis, one for hundredrabbits and another for research and projects.
Alexander Obenauer also does a lovely job publishing research notes.
Unison and Dynamicland are two strong visions for the future of computing.

Music:
lemon (tussed/screwed because everyone listens at 2x)

! Send us email, join the FoC community, and find us on-line:
I: 🐘🦋🌐
J: 🐘🦋🌐
K: N/A
L: 🐘🦋🌐

See you in the future!

https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/077

A classic "80-year predictions" episode. How did we do, humanity?
Links
$ <a href="https://www.patreon.com/futureofcoding">Patreon</a>
<ul>
<li>We're considering changing <a href="https://futureofcoding.org/the-name">The Name</a> of the FoC community, podcast, et cetera.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_American_Speech">Transatlantic Accent</a>, and all the ships at sea.</li>
<li>This episode's advertisements: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senna_glycoside">Ex-Lax</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol#Medical">Mifflin</a>, et cetera.</li>
<li>The <a href="https://www.newmediareader.com/">New Media Reader</a> is a good read(er).</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2hB9PjugK0">Blue Prince</a> is surely everyone's 2025 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_the_Year_awards">GOTY</a>. You'll find ample <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/exasperated-127597451">discussion</a> of its <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/hour-and-half-of-129954399">twisty design</a> in our bonus feed.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6ldnjE3Y0">Oppenheimer</a> was probably my least favourite David Nolen movie.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC">ENIAC</a> was, for a time, the computer.</li>
<li><a href="https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/056">Engelbart</a></li>
<li>The <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_camera">Polaroid instant camera</a> dates back to the 1940s!</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Glass#Criticism">Google Glass</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray-Ban_Meta#Privacy_and_ethical_concerns">Ray-Ban Meta</a>, sigh</li>
<li>Wikipedia's <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_existing_technologies_predicted_in_science_fiction">List of Existing Technologies Predicted in Science Fiction</a></li>
<li>Apparently microfilm and microfiche are both instances of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microform">microform</a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://earthsown.com/products/organic-almond-unsweetened-original-chilled-carton/">Boy Milk</a>, no explanation needed.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_M._Carroll">Sean M. Carroll</a>, physicist.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Shannon">Claude Shannon</a>, information theorist ;)</li>
<li><a href="https://archive.ph/SfhuK">AI Is Not Your Friend</a> appeared in The Atlantic on May 9th, 2025.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk">Amazon Mechanical Turk</a> is "artificial artificial intelligence".</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/topics/awesome">Awesome</a> GitHub lists</li>
<li><a href="https://daringfireball.net/">Daring Fireball</a> and <a href="https://kottke.org/">Kottke.org</a> are two long-running blogs that helped popularize the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linklog">"linkblog"</a> form.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecutter_(website)">The Wirecutter</a> was our previous top pick for product recommendations, but their history of shilling junk and our growing concerns about e-waste have led us to downgrade them in our rankings.</li>
<li><a href="https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/045">Devine</a> (the other Lu) maintains a pair of wikis, one for <a href="https://100r.co/site/knowledge.html">hundredrabbits</a> and another for <a href="https://wiki.xxiivv.com/">research and projects</a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://alexanderobenauer.com/">Alexander Obenauer</a> also does a lovely job publishing research notes.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.unison-lang.org/">Unison</a> and <a href="https://dynamicland.org/">Dynamicland</a> are two strong visions for the future of computing.</li>
</ul>
Music:
<ul>
<li>lemon (tussed/screwed because everyone listens at 2x)</li>
</ul>
! Send us <a href="mailto:admin@futureofcoding.org?subject=Email%20from%20a%20listener">email</a>, join the <a href="https://futureofcoding.org/community">FoC community</a>, and find us on-line:
<ul>
<li>I: <a href="https://mastodon.social/@spiralganglion">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/spiralganglion.com">🦋</a> <a href="https://ivanish.ca/">🌐</a></li>
<li>J: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@jimmyhmiller">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/jimmyhmiller.bsky.social">🦋</a> <a href="https://jimmyhmiller.github.io/">🌐</a></li>
<li>K: N/A</li>
<li>L: <a href="https://mas.to/@todepond">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/todepond.com">🦋</a> <a href="https://www.todepond.com/">🌐</a></li>
</ul>
See you in the future!
<a href="https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/077">https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/077</a>

As We May Think by Vannevar Bush

You know Alan Turing, right?

And the Turing test?

Have you actually read the paper that introduced it,

Computing Machinery and Intelligence?

No?!

You… you are not prepared.

With very special guest:Felienne Hermans

Notes

$ Patreon
Mystery AI Hype Theatre 3000 podcast, from Emily M. Bender and Alex Hanna. "Always read the footnotes"
[The Language Game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_game_(philosophy) by Ludwig Wittgenstein
Can Machines Think? by W. "Billy" Mays
Lu's paper with Dave Ackley, Dialogues on Natural Code describes how the symbiote will spread to consume all of humanity.
Reclaiming AI as a Theoretical Tool for Cognitive Science by Iris van Rooij et al.
Ned Block's Blockhead
Nick Cave's thoughts on AI song lyrics. For instance: "Writing a good song is not mimicry, or replication, or pastiche, it is the opposite. […] It is the breathless confrontation with one’s vulnerability, one’s perilousness, one’s smallness, pitted against a sense of sudden shocking discovery; it is the redemptive artistic act that stirs the heart of the listener, where the listener recognizes in the inner workings of the song their own blood, their own struggle, their own suffering."
What Computers Can't Do by Hubert Dryfus
Wittgenstein on Rules by Saul Kripke
Is chess the drosophila of artificial intelligence? by Nathan Ensmenger
Computers as Theatre by Brenda Laurel

! Send us email, especially questions or topics you'd like us to discuss on future episodes, share your wildest ideas in the Slack, and:
IVAN: 🐘🦋🌐
JIMM: 🐘🦋🌐
TODE: 🐘🦋🌐
FELI: 🐘🦋🌐

See you in the future!

https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/076

You know <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing">Alan Turing</a>, right?
And the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test">Turing test</a>?
Have you actually read the paper that introduced it,
<a href="https://courses.cs.umbc.edu/471/papers/turing.pdf">Computing Machinery and Intelligence</a>?
No?!
You&hellip; you are not prepared.
<hr>
With very special guest: <a href="https://www.felienne.com/">Felienne Hermans</a>
Notes
$ <a href="https://www.patreon.com/futureofcoding">Patreon</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.dair-institute.org/maiht3k/">Mystery AI Hype Theatre 3000</a> podcast, from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_M._Bender">Emily M. Bender</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hanna_%28research_scientist%29">Alex Hanna</a>. "Always read the footnotes"</li>
<li>[The Language Game](<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_game_(philosophy)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_game_(philosophy)</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein">Ludwig Wittgenstein</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/13C1D582F132D7F24734C48683AA3552/S003181910002266Xa.pdf/can-machines-think.pdf">Can Machines Think?</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfe_Mays">W. "Billy" Mays</a></li>
<li>Lu's paper with <a href="https://www.cs.unm.edu/~ackley/">Dave Ackley</a>, <a href="https://www.todepond.com/code/">Dialogues on Natural Code</a> describes how the symbiote will spread to consume all of humanity.</li>
<li><a href="https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s42113-024-00217-5.pdf">Reclaiming AI as a Theoretical Tool for Cognitive Science</a> by <a href="https://irisvanrooijcogsci.com">Iris van Rooij</a> et al.</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Block">Ned Block</a>'s <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockhead_(thought_experiment)">Blockhead</a></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cave">Nick Cave</a>'s thoughts on <a href="https://www.theredhandfiles.com/chat-gpt-what-do-you-think/">AI song lyrics</a>. For instance: "Writing a good song is not mimicry, or replication, or pastiche, it is the opposite. [&hellip;] It is the breathless confrontation with one&rsquo;s vulnerability, one&rsquo;s perilousness, one&rsquo;s smallness, pitted against a sense of sudden shocking discovery; it is the redemptive artistic act that stirs the heart of the listener, where the listener recognizes in the inner workings of the song their own blood, their own struggle, their own suffering."</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Dreyfus%27s_views_on_artificial_intelligence">What Computers Can't Do</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Dreyfus">Hubert Dryfus</a></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein_on_Rules_and_Private_Language">Wittgenstein on Rules</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Kripke">Saul Kripke</a></li>
<li><a href="https://homes.luddy.indiana.edu/nensmeng/files/Ensmenger2012-Chess.pdf">Is chess the drosophila of artificial intelligence?</a> by <a href="https://luddy.indiana.edu/contact/profile/?profile_id=197">Nathan Ensmenger</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~social/reading/Laurel-ComputersAsTheatre.pdf">Computers as Theatre</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Laurel">Brenda Laurel</a></li>
</ul>
! Send us <a href="mailto:admin@futureofcoding.org?subject=Email%20from%20a%20listener">email</a>, especially questions or topics you'd like us to discuss on future episodes, share your wildest ideas in the <a href="https://futureofcoding.org/community">Slack</a>, and:
<ul>
<li>IVAN: <a href="https://mastodon.social/@spiralganglion">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/spiralganglion.com">🦋</a> <a href="https://ivanish.ca/">🌐</a></li>
<li>JIMM: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@jimmyhmiller">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/jimmyhmiller.bsky.social">🦋</a> <a href="https://jimmyhmiller.github.io/">🌐</a></li>
<li>TODE: <a href="https://mas.to/@todepond">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/todepond.com">🦋</a> <a href="https://www.todepond.com/">🌐</a></li>
<li>FELI: <a href="https://mastodon.social/@Felienne">🐘</a> <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/felienne.bsky.social">🦋</a> <a href="https://www.felienne.com/">🌐</a></li>
</ul>
See you in the future!
<a href="https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/076">https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/076</a>

Computing Machinery and Intelligence by Alan Turing (feat. Felienne Hermans)

In the academic field of programming language research, there are a few prestigious conferences that you must present at to advance in your career. These conferences are rather selective about which presentations they'll accept. If your research work involves proving formal properties about a programming language, you'll have their ear. But if your work looks at, say, the human factors of language design, you might as well not bother applying — and thus, not bother pursuing that work in the first place. Why is the formalistic, systems-focused work elevated, and the human-focused work diminished? And what are the downstream consequences, the self-reinforcing feedback loops that come from this narrow focus?

In this episode we discuss a paper by Felienne Hermans and Ari Schlesinger titled, A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design. It applies the lens of intersectional feminism to reveal a startling lack of "Yes, and…" in academic computer science, where valuable avenues of inquiry are closed off, careers are stifled, and people are unintentionally driven away from contributing to the field, simply because their passions and expertise don't conform to a set of invisible expectations. Through heartbreaking personal anecdotes and extensive supporting references, the paper makes the case that there's a lot of high-value greenfield work to be done, and people who would love to do it — but we will need to collectively identify, understand, and then fix a few broken incentives before it'll happen.

Notes

$ Patreon
Polypad, dubbed the "best piece of education software for smartboards" by published academic Luke Wilson
Or is it Mathigon? "Looks like a nice Desmos", opines enterprise sales expert Ivan Reese.
Market💡Facts.ca
Hedy, a multi-lingual programming environment for the classroom created by Felienne.

Welcome to the TALK BLOC:


Felienne Hermans at Onward! 2024: A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design


Ivan and Alex Warth at LIVE 2024: Inkling


Lu at LIVE 2024: Arroost


Lu at Onward! 2024: Dialogs on Natural Code


Discovering Your Software Umwelt by Rebecca Wirfs-Brock, Allen Wirfs-Brock, and Jordan Wirfs-Brock


A New Cognitive Perspective on Simplicity in System and Product Design by FoC community member and previous bonus episode guest, Stefan Lesser


Redressing the Balance: A Yin-Yang Perspective on Information Technology by FoC community member Konrad Hinsen


Foremost among the contributions to society by Icebergs are their inspiration of the meme


Alex McLean as in Insane in the Membrane


FOUR FOUR


Mary Shaw, previous guest


Zachtronics make some hard puzzle games.


Define Define, a really great video about that.


Oh, you question toxic masculinity, yet you live within the gender binary?

! Send us email, especially if you're an avid listener who happens to work for a placement agency and knows an AI thought leader who has advised 5000 startups and would be a great fit for our show, share your ideas in the Slack, and:
Eats: Mastodon • Website
Shoots: Mastodon • Website
Leaves: Mastodon • Website

See you in the future!

https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/75

In the academic field of programming language research, there are a few prestigious conferences that you must present at to advance in your career. These conferences are rather selective about which presentations they'll accept. If your research work involves proving formal properties about a programming language, you'll have their ear. But if your work looks at, say, the human factors of language design, you might as well not bother applying &mdash;&nbsp;and thus, not bother pursuing that work in the first place. Why is the formalistic, systems-focused work elevated, and the human-focused work diminished? And what are the downstream consequences, the self-reinforcing feedback loops that come from this narrow focus?
In this episode we discuss a paper by <a href="https://www.felienne.com/">Felienne Hermans</a> and <a href="https://arischlesinger.com/">Ari Schlesinger</a> titled, <a href="https://www.felienne.com/archives/8470">A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design</a>. It applies the lens of intersectional feminism to reveal a startling lack of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_and...">"Yes, and&hellip;"</a> in academic computer science, where valuable avenues of inquiry are closed off, careers are stifled, and people are unintentionally driven away from contributing to the field, simply because their passions and expertise don't conform to a set of invisible expectations. Through heartbreaking personal anecdotes and extensive supporting references, the paper makes the case that there's a lot of high-value greenfield work to be done, and people who would love to do it &mdash;&nbsp;but we will need to collectively identify, understand, and then fix a few broken incentives before it'll happen.
Notes
$ <a href="https://www.patreon.com/futureofcoding">Patreon</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://polypad.amplify.com/">Polypad</a>, dubbed the "best piece of education software for smartboards" by published academic Luke Wilson</li>
<li>Or is it <a href="https://mathigon.org/">Mathigon</a>? "Looks like a nice <a href="https://www.desmos.com/">Desmos</a>", opines enterprise sales expert Ivan Reese.</li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20241124083409/https://www.marketfacts.ca/home/">Market💡Facts.ca</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.hedy.org">Hedy</a>, a multi-lingual programming environment for the classroom created by Felienne.</li>
</ul>
Welcome to the TALK BLOC:
<ul>
<li>
Felienne Hermans at Onward! 2024: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Br66SUjsdQ&amp;t=12129">A case for Feminism in Programming Language Design</a>
</li>
<li>
Ivan and Alex Warth at LIVE 2024: <a href="https://www.inkandswitch.com/ink/notes/inkling-live-presentation/">Inkling</a>
</li>
<li>
Lu at LIVE 2024: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GOeYylCMJI&amp;t=12480">Arroost</a>
</li>
<li>
Lu at Onward! 2024: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Br66SUjsdQ&amp;t=15105">Dialogs on Natural Code</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Br66SUjsdQ&amp;t=23984s">Discovering Your Software Umwelt</a> by Rebecca Wirfs-Brock, Allen Wirfs-Brock, and Jordan Wirfs-Brock
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://stefanlesser.substack.com/p/video-and-transcript-of-my-presentation">A New Cognitive Perspective on Simplicity in System and Product Design</a> by FoC community member and previous <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/new-physics-with-99281699">bonus episode guest</a>, Stefan Lesser
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://archive.org/details/onward-redressing-the-balance">Redressing the Balance: A Yin-Yang Perspective on Information Technology</a> by FoC community member Konrad Hinsen
</li>
<li>
Foremost among the contributions to society by Icebergs are their inspiration of <a href="https://suricrasia.online/iceberg/">the meme</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_McLean">Alex McLean</a> as in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RijB8wnJCN0">Insane in the Membrane</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://ivanish.ca/four-four/">FOUR FOUR</a>
</li>
<li>
Mary Shaw, previous <a href="https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/069">guest</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachtronics">Zachtronics</a> make some hard puzzle games.
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMklf0vUl18">Define Define</a>, a really great video about that.
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat">Oh, you question toxic masculinity, yet you live within the gender binary?</a>
</li>
</ul>
! Send us <a href="mailto:admin@futureofcoding.org?subject=Email%20from%20a%20listener">email</a>, especially if you're an avid listener who happens to work for a placement agency and knows an AI thought leader who has advised 5000 startups and would be a great fit for our show, share your ideas in the <a href="https://futureofcoding.org/community">Slack</a>, and:
<ul>
<li>Eats: <a href="https://mastodon.social/@spiralganglion">Mastodon</a> &bull; <a href="https://ivanish.ca/">Website</a></li>
<li>Shoots: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@jimmyhmiller">Mastodon</a> &bull; <a href="https://jimmyhmiller.github.io/">Website</a></li>
<li>Leaves: <a href="https://mas.to/@todepond">Mastodon</a> &bull; <a href="https://www.todepond.com/">Website</a></li>
</ul>
See you in the future!
https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/75

Unison's Paul Chiusano on how Abstraction Will Save Distributed Computing

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