Did you know that most marketing companies in the US during the early 1950s focused heavily on recycling materials? In today’s linear economy, most companies push customers to buy convenient yet unnecessary things that are easily disposed of. Let’s change our ways as we learn more about the Circular Economy, its impact on our environment, and how you can save money by engaging in it! This interview with Ronen Gonen answers how we can aim at practices in which we can be financially and environmentally responsible.
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Episode three fourteen is episode one seventy three The Circular Economy and Your Money with Ron Gonan.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life.
Here your host Jen and Jill.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jill and I'm Chloe.
I almost forgot my name.
You know it, you know it. You're here. And yes, that is a little different because Jen's on maternity leave because she had a baby. You've probably heard this. It was a nine pound baby. He's so cute. His name is Atlas. And as she's out caring for her new human in the world, we've got Chloe doing a stand in co hosting. This is different from an inner you because while we have interviewed her in the past, you should check it out. She's just helping me co host. She's she's the new Gen except she's not. She's Chloe and she's amazing. You should be if you're not following her everywhere. She's got her own podcast called Moneybear. She's on Instagram as Clobear Money Coach. She's got a blog clobear dot com. I'm I'm gonna be honest. My favorite is following you on Instagram. We had you on the podcast or I think both the podcasts and for the summit at one point, and it was after that. I usually don't follow all of the people that we interview, that's just me being honest and vulnerable. But you, I did because you are so fun to watch and you are You're super knowledgeable on particularly investing, definitely all things money. But I know you talk a lot about investing and especially for beginners on Instagram, and that has help helped me a lot. Even being in the personal finance space, there's areas that I don't feel super expert on, but you do it in such a shame free, fun way. And any friend that I have coming to me being like I want to invest, I'm like, don't ask me. Follow this girl on Instagram. You won't be upset. So that's my introduction of you. But what do you want to say about you?
Wow, Guys, I didn't even know this. She's just revealing all of this to me.
Now. I am honored. Thank you so much.
That's literally everything I try to do is I think that you know, investing is scary for most people. It's gate kept for so long by people who already understand and are already wealthy. And my job is really to break it down for the average person, because I certainly never thought I would be the type of person who was obsessed with investing. I studied English and Spanish in college, so I assumed I would just never be good with money, I would never learn the skill set, and then I became completely obsessed with it. So that's kind of my mission, is to make it accessible for the everyday folk.
And I'm glad that's resonating.
And you do it, you do so well.
I appreciate it.
We are here to bring you and it's a rerun of an episode well because Gen's on maternity leave, so let's just be real. But also we love pulling these ones out of the archives. This was one of our favorites. We love interviews the Circular Economy with Ron Gonan, and he is the CEO of Closed Loop Partners, the first investment firm dedicated entirely to financing companies that solve problems with circular solutions. So here we're going to ask him all about his approach to investing, how we can aim at practices that are both financially and environmentally responsible. So this is all super relevant to one of the things that you're so good at, Chloe, of investing, but then also being able to look at what are some ways that we can do this ethically and sustainably and invest but also in some of our daily life decisions. So we kind of cover all these things with Ron in this interview. So we're excited to queue this up for you if this is an interesting topic, you enjoy this. A few others that are similar that you can queue up after this as episode two sixty six Sustainable Minimalism and Frugality with Stephanie Sephirion. That was such a good one. I'm going to say that about honestly all of our interviews because the people we have on the show are so great and so cool, and minimalism and frugality I think are sustainable, but I think we take a deeper dive into the specifics of why we believe that to be true and how we can enact that in our daily lives. Then we've got episode two ten, which is Tips to Live Zero Waste Frugally. We all know that it can be done frugally, but it also can be done in a really unnecessarily spendy, expensive way where people think that I need to go buy all of the high tech, to ful things in order to somehow go zero waste, and that's just not the case. So if this is a lifestyle that you're aimed at, I'm not zero waste. I'm low waste. I'm on a journey towards low waste. And this episode, certainly and what we talked about there was really helpful for me in that. So just all things sustainability is what we are diving into. But first, you know the drill. This episode is brought to you by Basic Bombshells, the obvious alternative name for the Frugal Friends podcast, has sponsored this episode today because they're loaded.
Basic Bombshells are loaded.
We're just out here cutting expenses that don't matter and spending where we value in looking fire and if you want to cover more basics, I highly recommend Chloe's Free Investing Class because it's not just about saving and spending, it's also about investing. And if you feel like you could use some more info and understanding on this topic, this one's for you. Check it out at Lazy Investing Class dot com. Be a basic bombshell learn the basics, Chloe, what do you want to say about you?
Just love I love the basic bombshells.
I love the introduction into these ads, like I'm like, oh my god, this is genius.
These words combined came out of my mouth the other day because we love alliteration. Obviously for your friends. I was hanging out with Jen holding her baby, and I forget the context, but I said something about basic bombshell and we loved it. I'm like, that's going to be a sponsor this week. But also it's gonna have to be a T shirt. I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, no, it is one.
I'll get you one.
Chlothe that's amazing. I love that endlessly. But yes, Also, I have a free investing class. It happens twice a month, usually in the same week. It's usually the last week of the month.
It is live.
It is the only time that you've got the ability to ask your questions from me live and for free.
So it's a good time. The community is always amazing.
I am always like blown away by how awesome my community is. It's like the nicest, most supportive, most like f Yeah, group of human beings in the webinar chat always, So if that is something that's intriguing to you, if you're like, ooh, investing, this might be the next step in my journey, I highly recommend you come because we do our best to make sure that it is it's not scary, and that it's actually kind of fun.
That should be your next step. Honestly, after listening to this episode, because it is about investing, and if you want to learn more, then check out lazyinvestingclass dot com. But let's get into this interview with Ron. We thought it was a banger. We hope you do too. See you after the interview.
Welcome Ron to the Frugal Friends podcast. So happy to have you here.
With you today.
We couldn't be more enthused about this topic and we know that it's going to be something that our listeners are very excited to hear about learn more about. I think this conversation is taking us to the next level of understanding and awareness and then actionable steps. So thank you, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us today. Absolutely so, Ron, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? What is the circular economy? What got you interested or even passionate about this? Way of approaching economics and sustainability.
Sure. So today I'm the founder and CEO of Closed Loop Partners. Closing Partners is an investment firm and innovation center focused on building the circular economy. And what we mean by the circular economy is developing manufacturing systems where you're able to manufacture the products that we all want without a dependence on natural resource extraction for manufacturing those products or the disposed of landfill of those products. Those are the two most expensive parts of the economy of manufacturing products. It's the extraction of natural resource and the disposal on landfill, not the actual manufacturing of the product. And if we can eliminate those two parts of the system natural resource extraction disposed on landfill, we're going to significantly cut costs and protect our environment. So that's what I do today and the area that I'm passionate about.
How did you get involved with this ron? How did you decide this is what I really want to focus in on and even to start Closed Loop Partners or be the CEO of it.
I was very fortunate. When I was in high school, my first job was working for one of the first green architects in America, and through his eyes and his experiences, I got to see first what it means to go against the grain, so to speak, because he was really one of the first and blazing a trail. And I also learned about all of these principles around sustainable design very early on in my life, and it just intuitively seemed to make sense to me, and that really got me started on a career that I've been very fortunate to have focused on sustainable business practices and maximizing financial returns.
This topic excites me so much because when my eyes are open to it, when I have conversations like this, or I have opportunity to watch shows that are focused on sustainability and you're identifying architectural design, and it does it bleeds into an intersex with all aspects of our life. There's such a problem solving component to it and creativity that I don't know if this is common, but I feel it's pretty common amongst humanity that there's something that draws us to that. But we don't necessarily know that this is something that we should be problem solving or utilizing our creative juices about. And yet I hear so many people complaining about plastic, right if it's the toys that their kids use, or how much plastic is just around their house, and how there's trash everywhere. Okay, well, there's also a component to what can we do about that. This doesn't just have to happen to you. There's something that can be done. And you even talking about, oh, there's ways that we can be selling products without extracting natural resources. I just want to hear so much more. Are there any overarching basics of what you can say regarding how we can go about doing this aiming at a circular economy not extracting so much natural resources? Tell us about the problem solving and the creativity.
Sure. The first thing that's really important for people to recognize is that while recycling is absolutely a major benefit for protecting our environment, it's not the only reason why you should be recycling. The other reason why you should be recycling is it means that your city doesn't have to pay to stick your waste in a hole called a landfill. Unfortunately, the way our sanitation system was designed in the United States post nineteen fifties, and this was intentional to hide numbers and costs from the general public to the benefit of certain industries. The cost of disposing of waste and landfills. It's buried in our tax bill. It's not priced like other utilities like water or electricity. It's just a cost that's embedded in our tax bill. And we have no idea how much are we actually spending and who are we paying all of this money to. And so the first thing that's really important for people to understand is that when you recycled, when you reduce, you reduce the amount that your municipality uses your tax dollars for disposing of material in landfill. And that's a really important thing to anchor everybody on.
Yeah, I know you talk in your book about using New York City as an example of the way that they approach waste and the burden that it is on the city, but also surrounding states, like they have to cross Tate lines to take trash to what North Carolina, even as far south as North Carolina, yep.
So interestingly, New York City has probably the most robust recycling and circular economy infrastructure in the United States. So we're the only city in America where the cardboard boxes that get recycled in New York City actually get turned back into cardboard boxes in New York City and put back into the system, which is a great example of a way for the city to reduce disposal costs, generate revenue because it gets guaranteed payments for its recycled cardboard, and create a lot of local jobs. But New York City, even with the best recycling infrastructure in the country, could still do a better job recycling. And the material that doesn't get recycled has to go to landfill, and New York City doesn't have any landfills, and so it ships its ways to landfills in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and South Carolina. And so if you live in those three states, you're effectively the dumping ground for New York City's garbage. And there's private companies in your state that make a lot of money off of using your land to dispose of New York City's garbage. And oftentimes, if you're stuck on the highway behind a big eighteen wheeler and you think to yourself, well, at least that's American commerce and the American economy, and there's goods being transferred around the country. In many cases, it may just be garbage that's being moved or around from one city to another state to find landfill space.
That's insane. We so often everybody forgets about taxes. They think taxes are just something they can't change, they'll always pay, so they never think about, like, how can I effectively lower my tax burden?
And this is actually one thing you can tangibly do.
Like I know some people complain about like, oh, recycling is expensive for our city, and like nobody talks about how expensive landfills are for the city.
Absolutely, and that's that's intentional. There's a phenomenal marketing campaign that for decades was driven by the extractive industries and the landfill industries to hide the cost of extraction and hide the cost of disposal. And that seeks its way into the press. So I'll oftentimes get calls from the press and they'll say, well, the city just signed a contract to recycle and they're going to have to pay forty dollars a ton to recycle. What is your answer when people say why should we recycle? It costs forty dollars a ton? And I say to the reporter, have you looked at how much it would cost to landfill those recyclables? And More often than not, the reporter hasn't looked up that information at all because they've been pitched on the story by landfill operators who have invested interest in creating this perception that there's a zero sum game. Either you pay forty dollars to recycle or do you snap your fingers and it all just magically disappears. And invariably what happens is I tell the reporter go back and find out what are the landfill disposal fees, and oftentimes come back with go, oh, that's interesting. The landfild disposal fees are fifty five dollars or sixty five dollars or eighty dollars. And I'd say, so, that means that if you don't pay the forty dollars to recycle and potentially get the revenue share that's in most recycling contracts, which can completely eliminate that that forty dollars thing create a revenue source. If you don't do that, if you just say, hey, I'm not going to recycle my throne in the garbage, you will pay that instead sixty seventy or eighty dollars. Tip three, Now, what was your question again about is it worth it. They're a cycle, and they're kind of like, yeah, I don't really have much of an article here, do I go? You have a new article, You have a new article. But the reality is is the United States spends billions of dollars a year of taxpayer money to subsidize extractive industry. So if you think about the oil and gas industry, which is where virgin plastic comes from, for decades, they've gotten billions in federal and state tax subsidies. People oftentimes will say to me, well, if we let capitalism work, recycled plastic, if it were less expensive than virgin plastic, everyone would be using it. And I say, I agree with you. Let's let capitalism work. Let's allow the free market to see who's cheaper. Unfortunately, if we continue to use federal and state tax dollars to subsidize the oil and gas companies, we're not allowing capitalism to work. We're not allowing the free market to work. We're behind the scenes, unbeknownst to a lot of taxpayers and consumers, subsidizing an industry that's actually harmful for our health and environment. And same thing, we're spending billions of dollars. Then sending stuff to landfill, and that cost oftentimes is not transparent to tax payers.
Yeah, so in your book, So there's the circular economy, which is what we want to move closer towards, which is like make use, reuse, remake, recycle, But we're currently on the linear economy, which is take, make, use, dispose, pollute. Is there any other ways that the linear economy is costing us that we don't know about?
Well, the two clearest way is that the linear economy costs us money is you're paying to extract natural resources to manufacture when you could just be using recycled material. It's much less expensive use recycled material verge. And the other obvious way it's costing us money is disposing of Protestant landfill. The less obvious ways are all of this extraction of natural resources, it harms our environment and that causes pollution, It causes health issues. The transportation of all of this waste to landfills causes huge amounts of pollution with these trucks rolling around, but it also damages our roads and highways. These are eighteen wheelers rolling around our highways causing a lot of damage, and it's completely unnecessary so there's some very clear direct cost, and then there's a number of externalities as well that that cost is borne by the average citizen. And the element of what I would call severe unfairness is that if you do a great job recycling or you do a great job reusing, your tax burden is very luck you're not really sending anything to landfill. But if your neighbor is somebody that says, I don't care about any of this stuff, I'm lazy, I'm just going to throw everything in the garbage. The way our system is structured today is your tax dollars will be partially used to pay for the disposal of their items and landfill. Because the way we're structured is everybody just kind of shares in the cost of disposal, and that's completely unfair.
Yeah, there's been some I know we're talking a lot about trash and that's a lot of what this is about. But I know that there are some cities who will approach it and that you purchase a bag, your trash has to go in that bag, So then you're only paying for however many trash bags, which, yeah, that seems a bit more just for I'm going to pay for the amount of waste that I actually use. But I think it seems to me as though when we talk about the linear economy, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about trash and how it's just easy. You mentioned being yeah, I'm just lazy. It's the easiest route and the way it's set up, that's the path of least resistance to just use it once, throw it away. But when we talk about a circular economy, there's a whole lot more involved in that that I think touches on a lot more aspects of our personhood and lifestyles, that is more creative, does engage with more problem solving, and there's a lot more components to explore versus just the trash that happens in a linear economy.
The end of life of the product is the last point in the chain, and what we want to think about from the beginning of the chain is material signs. Can we come up with new types of materials that don't involve any extraction, and then can we use product design to design products and solutions that use less material So I'll give you a couple of examples, so to stream, I'll use that example first because they're not a portfolio companies of ours.
So we can rag on them.
Well no, no, I mean, but you want to think that I'm just sort of promoting one of my companies.
Neutral.
Neutral, Yeah, neutral. So let's take soda Stream as an example. So to Stream is a great example of innovation and entrepreneurship where a system was developed where if you want great tasting seltzer, you can get great tasting seltzer without all of the packaging. You can just make the seltzer at home with one body. So that's a good example of product design where you're actually providing additional convenience to the customer, you're helping them reduce costs, and you're preserving our natural resources in the environment. So that's a good example of innovative product design that got the scale.
I love how you talk about sustainability as being profitable because so often we think of it as you have to sacrifice profitability for sustainability, or you have to spend more in order to be sustainable. But that is I mean, that myth is getting debunked.
That myth is a hoax that decade was perpetuated by the fossil fuel industry, the landfill industry, to make people think that yeah, you can go be sustainable, but it's going to cost us money. Now, behind the scenes, the fossil fuel industry was getting federal and state tax substance. It was a complete hoax. It is a complete hoax. It's much less expensive to live a sustainable less alt. And actually, if you look back pre nineteen fifty, and this is one of the things I cover in the book, all of the marketing that we got in the United States was focused on two things, quality over quantity. Quality over quantity, and the recycling of our paper, metal, glass, and plastic as a patriotic duty. Because if you have to extract natural resources, you're harming land in the US. But also if you end up being dependent on natural resources from foreign countries, especially if they're not friendly to us, that's not really good for our national defense. And so that's what you saw pre nineteen fifty, quality over quantity and recycling as a patriotic duty. Post nineteen fifty, there was a concerted effort by some major industries to change that messaging that people saw, and the messaging in the nineteen fifties and sixties changed from it's about quality to your status is directly connected to just how much stuff you have. It doesn't matter if it's like good stuff, it's going to last a long time. It's just about how much stuff you have. And it went to, hey, don't worry about recycling like you just put it out and it'll all just disappear, and we'll make you think it's all free, have it go away, and it's a it's a complete hoax that unfortunately a lot of a few industries made a lot of money off the back of taxpayers and consumers. But living a sustainable life, it's much healthier for you and your family, and you're going to save a lot of money.
It is quite striking to see the change that you've pointed out in just seventy years, Like nineteen fifty was not that long ago. And we used to as Americans, have a reduce, reuse, repurpose, be creative with your resources, be good stewards of it. And then that switch that has happened. And I think many of us might claim, oh, I'm not victim to advertising, but really, my goodness, in seventy years the shift that you have described, and how many of us have bought into that and haven't even thought twice about the way that we utilize products. This is just how it is. We use things once and we throw it away. And even the potential of manufacturers making things intended to break like quality isn't I mean, I hear my grandparents saying they don't make it like they used to.
And you have the stories in your book, Like I was shocked when I was reading some of the intentional stories of early manufacturers, like the light bulb people getting together with their competitors ensuring that everybody creates light bulbs that will not last past one thousand.
Hours, then you got to buy more light.
Bulbs, and knowing that there's still like there's a video camera on a light bulb that's been been shining for what like a hundred years or something, and the light bulb has outlasted three webcams the people.
That's absolutely true. And that's an example that I use in a book because I thought that would be an example that everybody could relate to, because everyone has the experience of every year a light bulb going dead, you got to change the light bulb, and so on and so forth, And so you read about the reality that the original light bulbs over one hundred years ago were capable of maintaining themselves for years. But the light bulb manufacturers realized, wait second, if we make light bulbs that last for years, that's going to cut into our profits. If we make light bulbs that run out after a certain amount of time, people will have to spend money to buy more. That was an example I used in the book because I thought it was something everybody could relate to. Unfortunately, there's dozens of stories like that. A more modern story is, let's look at a lot of the smartphone technology that we have. Smartphones are amazing. I'm in my forties. When I was a teenager, so just you know, a little over twenty years ago, if somebody tried to describe a smartphone, people would have thought you were out of your mind, like you were talking super futuristic type scenarios. So the designers and developers of smartphones, these are incredibly brilliant people. It's hard for me to believe that they're brilliance ends at the ability to develop something that can't always just use the same charger, right, It's.
Always the charger.
It's always the charger.
You're just happened with my phone last night?
Yeah, It's like you're telling me that this amazing iPhone or Samsung phone that you developed. It can take pictures, I can watch movies, I can watch sports on it, I can do email, I can do all of this amazing stuff. But you couldn't figure out how the next version of it uses the same charger as the previous one. That's intentional. That's a revenue generating opportunity to just get you to buy another charger. That's the kind of stuff that we need to start stripping out of our manufacturing systems and our society because it's pushing costs onto the consumer that shouldn't be there, and it's pushing disposal of products that are completely un necessary. Those chargers that don't work anymore on phones have to be thrown out. Those companies aren't taking the responsibility for picking them up and throwing them out on their dime. Their thing. You consumer, you figure it out, and that's not an efficient system.
Yeah.
Another thing that I found shocking from the book was the concept of obsolescence by desire, Like that wasn't like manufacturing goods. That break wasn't good enough for manufacturers, it wasn't fast enough, so then they turned to advertising to make people think they needed new stuff, and that was so much quicker. And I think that's something I mean, that's the main thing that we talk about on this show is to not be like tricked by that, yeah, but to read it was crazy.
Yeah. So your listeners that may have been fans of mad Men, this is actually what the show was about. Post World War Two, this advertising industry grew exponentially. There's always been advertising, but post World War Two, this industry grew exponentially. And the whole focus of that show is how do we hawk this product? How do we spin a story to make the consumer believe that their personal status is directly connected to owning this product. And what you find interesting about mad Men is there's not a lot of satisfaction in the characters on the show, right. The show isn't full of people who go, Wow, I come into work every day and I get the Hawk products, whether or not I believe in the product or not. I mean, my focus is really on, like I got to convince someone else that they absolutely need this product. Wow, I'm just I just feel so personally fulfilled. That's not the story, right, They're all struggled with, like what am I doing. But that's effectively what happened in the nineteen fifties is we started moving our economy towards one of we just need to maintain this massive industry we've built around the World War Two, which was really important industry. It helped us win the war, but it really should have been unwound or focused more on parts of the economy that actually betefit citizens. Unfortunately, it transition itself into one of make as much stuff as possible and just hawk the hell out of it.
Yeah, like, you just had a really couple tough years. Do you deserve literally all the stuff? And I think we've brought that mindset for the last seventy years. You're going, you know, life is hard, you deserve stuff. I mean, that's the mindset we live by.
And what psychologists have shown us is that what makes you happy isn't lots of stuff. What makes you happy is your family and relationships, your friendships, and the satisfaction you get out of what you do for a living and how much you have. It's not core to your happiness. Everybody likes nice things, but the nice part of it is the key, which is what you should be focusing on is As a consumer, I want quality. I want something that looks good, it feels good, it lasts a long time. When I no longer want it, because I know that it was made well and designed with a certain aesthetic, I'll be able to sell it to somebody else and recoup some of the value. And if my aesthetic has changed, or I just my lifestyle is changed, I'll go out and get something else it's again designed well, high quality materials, so on and so for. When we talk about consumerism, that's what we should be talking about. Not the route to my happiness is just how much stuff I have.
Whether or not it was made well or not, and how cheap can I get it?
How can I get it? The question like how cheap can I get it? You also have to think about, like what kind of person do I want to be? Because if you're buying a four dollars T shirt, that means that there's somebody someplace in the world that was paid so little to make that sure that that company could get the cotton, make the shirt, transport it to the store for you to buy it. That means somebody was paid so little that we were able to get it for four dollars. You have to also have to just think about like what kind of person do I want to be, and what kind of system do I want to participate in? And if I saw making this, like how would I feel about it?
And how well am I going to care for something that I only spent four dollars on? When am I going to need another four dollars shirt probably in a month from now?
Yeah, exactly right? And then and then it gets then it gets thrown out right and got to go to landfill. And we have a weird sense of patriotism in America where we'll say things like American made. We want manufacturing in the US, but when I go to the store, I want the cheapest thing possible, which obviously means that it's got to get made someplace where there's no labor laws. So we have this weird sense of patriotism in America where we espould certain values, but we're not willing to pay for those values. And that's a challenge I think as a society we need to overcome and understand the ramifications of of then how it's all interconnected. When when you have somebody who can barely survive working in a factory and a developing country making our T shirts. But they're going to ultimately try to do is they're going to try to get to America and make a better life for themselves. So if you want to solve the immigration issue in the US, think about who's making your products and how poorly they're being treated, and create a motivation for them to stay with their and their home and their family where they want to be by giving them a livable weight.
I didn't even think about that.
Wow, wow, my drab bron Yeah.
Okay, So let's talk about some like some actionable tips, like what are because most waste is created I think it's created at the manufacturing level, if I've heard that right, So, like, we're not the manufacturers. We can do what we can, but like, what are the most significant things we can do to promote a circular economy, like whether at home or urging companies to change.
It's a great question, and different people have different interests. So I'm going to give a few things that people can do depending on what their interests are. So, if you're somebody that's very active politically, great opportunity to go to your local political officials and say how much are we spending on landfills? I want to know why are my tax dollars being used to send all this material to landfills? Like, there's lots of examples of cities and communities around the country and around the world that robust recycling systems where this material is getting collected and process and sold. So if you're someone who is interested in politics, get engaged around this issue of we should be manufacturing in the United States. We have all of these commodities through the products we have, and we don't want to be sending things to landfill anymore. And the good news is there's a lot of bipartisan initiatives right now focused on building circular economy and recycling research. So that's something you can do if you're interested in politics. If you're just somebody at home wanting to do the right thing by the environment but also save money, make sure you're recycling everything possible, really understand how to recycle. If you've got a local curbside organics program where your city's not collecting your food waste, make sure you're giving your food waste for composting. So that's something you do. Then, if you're really interested in product design, and products when you're at the supermarket. We're at the store, research the products you're buying and make sure that they're using as much recycled content as possible, Understand the materials that are being used, and try to shop responsibly or in a way that aligns with your values.
Absolutely, Yeah, spending in alignment with your values. It does result in actually spending less, like consuming less. And yeah, that's like the first part.
Yeah, and that's not even to mention investment. Right, You've got closed loop partners where you can even be wealth building in this.
Vein, right, So so thank you for bringing that up. So that's the other thing is if you're interested in investing, if you over the last decade focused on investing in renewable energy, electric vehicles, recycling systems, you would have made a lot more money than if you would have said, I want to stay in exceon mobile, I want to stay in cars companies that aren't going electric. I want to invest in landfill operators. So if you're an investor, this is definitely where the world is going, and it's going there for a very important reason, which is the more sustainable a company is, the more transparent they tend to be meaning they're proud to tell you the materials they use, where those materials come from, the labor that they use, how their supply chain operates. They're proud of it. It's something that they have designed with efficiency in mind. And what do you want as an investor. You want to maximize transparency, You want to mitigate risk, you don't want any surprises. You want as much information as you possibly can get. And that's what you're going to get out of investing in investment firms like Closer Partners it focuses on circular economy and recycling, or other firms that do it, or just through public equities that are focused in this area.
The beautiful thing about what you're saying, too, is that as we move towards this more circular economy and make both macro and micro level changes, it does save us money again on the macro lene and the micro level, which I know we want to do. We don't want to be spending as much. We want to be saving more, we want to be earning more, we want to be building wealth, and all of this aligns beautifully. We're not sacrificing one thing for the other to be content with the products that we have to have quality over quantity. To be concerned about the level of items going to the landfill impacts our taxes. Like I love that every single thing that we've talked about does benefit us on the micro level.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You know what else benefits us? John, the micro every level the week.
That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage.
Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Duck bills, Bffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week. Ron.
Every week we invite one of our listeners or our guests to share with us their bill for the week.
So, do you have a bill for us today?
I do, And I really like this concept that you do because it forces you to really think creatively about how to connect dots. And so my bill of the week is going to be Bill Moyer's. Bill Moyers used to he's getting up there in age, But Bill Moriers, for most of his career, has produced exceptional documentaries. And I've always learned a tremendous amount watching Bill Moyer's documentaries, and one comes to mind which I would recommend to everybody to listen to, which is The Power of Myth, which is about Joseph Campbell. And I bring that up because I think studying history is a really important way to understand the system that you're living in today and why it was constructed that way, and to just have greater self awareness. So Bill Moyer's would be my Bill of the week.
We can't know where we're going if we don't know where we came from. We've never had this one before, so yeah, we love Donnie.
Got like a person. Bill. Those are my Those are my favorite.
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. My husband just this week was saying how he really wanted to watch a documentary but was having a hard time finding one that interested him. And so here we go. I know what we're doing this week.
Anything, Yes, I think by Bill Moyers will be an exceptional learning experience and just help you think about just systems and structures and where we came from and how we live today. I really liked the Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell, which was a book that Joseph Campbell wrote, but Bill Moyers did a special series interviewing Joseph Campbell on it. But he's got lots of great documentaries that that he's done on all different topics. So I thought it was a great question for a podcast. I wanted to come up with an answer that hopefully is unique and uh and full of unique expense.
Oh I know, and clearly we like creativity and problem solving, and you did both today. So if you all who are listening want to submit your bill of the week, you've got something creative. You've solved the problem. You know, a guy named Bill. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us your bill. You know we love to hear it.
Yes, so now it's time for we do a lot of noises and singing and yelling.
It gets exciting in the second position, right, I mean exciting the first time.
So today we're going to share.
This is where we kind of get a little more personal, like what we're doing to promote the circular economy personally. So Ron, as our guest, we would love it for you to go first. You're going to have the best answer, and our answers are going to are going to paling comparison. But we are very excited to hear what you say.
First.
What I am doing to promote the circular economy is to try to build the most successful investment firm focused on backing the most brilliant entrepreneurs building solutions for the circular economy.
Nice, what's like one that you're really excited? I know they're like children and you shouldn't pick a favorite, but like, what are you really excited about right now?
What's one of them?
Which one is the.
For that preface? Because yes, fifty portfolio companies and I love them all equally. Way. One that we're very excited about is home Biogas, which is a company based in Israel that's developed the first household sized anaerobic digester. Anaerobic digesters convert food waste and biological waste into gas and so. In the United States, a lot of the wastewater treatment facilities have large digesters. These are like fifty to two hundred and fifty million dollars type facilities that turn biosolids into energy. Some unicipalities now have anaerobic digesters for food waste. A number of dairy farms have them, but these are big, big, multimillion dollar facilities. No one's ever figured out how to miniaturize the technology down to the household level, and home Biogas has been able to develop a small anaerobic digester that looks like an appliance. You put it into your backyard, you put all of your food waste into it. It converts it into get as that can pump into your hot water heater or into your stove. So home biogas dot Com check them out. We're super excited about them. Totally disruptive, and back to the earlier point on our conversation, a great example of how sustainability saves money. You take all of your food waste and rather than sticking it in the garbage where your city's going to use its tax dollars to ship it to a landfill, instead, you take that food waste and you put in your home biogas system, and now you're generating your own gas for cooking or for hot water, which also saves you money. So that's one portfolio company that I'm very excited about.
Oh it's amazing. I love hearing about such cool innovative things that utilize, yeah, your waste and then make it productive. It's people are brilliant, it's amazing. Yeah, all right, my turn, Jill. Yeah, you know, I am turning my food waste into sustainable.
Funny you should say that.
No, So it's very very simple. I think some of the things that I'm doing, but again hailing back to my days of tiny living, it really connected me to my waste, the amount of water that I was using. Just ever, I mean, you're very connected to all of your waste in some really gross ways but in some really challenging ways too when you live tiny. And I think some of those things have carried over. But a little part of me does die when I throw things out. So I have been looking at how do I stop doing that One very very small thing that I've realized when I go grocery shopping, So if I can't get to the farmer's market or find a place where I can just like purchase produce, if I'm at the grocery store purchasing produce, I stopped using the plastic bags, like you know, the plastic bags in the produce section where you could just like shove your apples into. I'm like, I don't. Actually, I'm just gonna get home and I'm going to throw all of this away. So I bring in my own bags, and Okay, if I don't want them sitting in the shopping cart, fine, I'll put them into the bag. And then yes, I'm gonna have to wash. You want to get home because they're sitting on the conveyor belt, and who knows what was on the conveyor belt. But it feels a lot better to not come home and just immediately within thirty minutes throw a ton more plastic into the trash. So that's something tiny. And I've been mending my own clothing. I've been buying significantly less clothing, thank you, Tiny Living. And if it's broken, I mend it. So I like my clothes and I want to keep them and imend them. And that's that.
I think those are all excellent examples for your listeners. It's amazing, over the course of the year how many plastic bags we use at the supermarket for our produce, completely unnecessarily, and that just shows you the inefficiency in the system. Like the supermarket is buying all of those bags, and they're passing that cost off to the consumers because they have to cover those costs, and then we as consumers use those bags. It's completely unnecessary. You can just put it in your shopping cart and put it in your shopping bag and go home. And then at home we have all these plastic bags that we literally used for maybe an hour and then we just throw it in the garb. So love that example, thanks Ron. Love the fact that you mend your own clothes. We actually need an industry in the United States where people men close again, fix electronics. Again. So love all of those examples.
Thank you. Yes, yeah, it's sim It's not needed most of the ways that we approach. And mind you, you are paying for that plastic right like they offer it like it's free, but like you're paying for it in the pricing of the produce.
That's what I mean by all of these hidden costs in the system is you're just grabbing these plastic bags. People don't stop to think for a moment. They're like, oh, the supermarket boss these because they think I want them. But they're going to have to cover their costs, and so that cost gets passed on. And this is what I mean by like, we got to break that system and avoid all these unnecessary costs.
Mmmm, Jen, what you got for us?
So I have a few wins lately on the subject of grocery bags. So I do grocery pickup and din't like they just put every individual it am in a plastic bag.
It's so useless.
But like, so I will there's the other grocery store near me has like the recycling for those plastic bags, because we can't just throw them in our regular recycling. And so I will hoard these bags and get like a big bushel of them and then take them to the grocery store. And one time I was like taking my carrying my bushel and a lady she's like, thank you so much, and I was like, you're welcome.
So yeah, do that with my bags.
But yeah, so I My most recent win is I try to buy as much clothing as possible secondhand. But genes have been something I've had a real problem with. But I've devoted myself like to buying new genes, to really like buying quality and buying them secondhand. And so I went to Nordstrum and I tried on all the nice sustainable genes so I could find my size. Foum the size went to the saved all my sizes and stuff and saved searches on threadups. So I could find when the good genes in my size come up, then it sends me an alert so I can see if I want them or not. But then I also went into our local it's like a it's like a local consignment, it's like a play it's closet, but it's local, and found a pair in my size that are not just like good quality, but they're the ones that are like also like, we make our genes sustainably too, So I got sustainable genes that are good quality secondhand and that.
Feel so good. And so I just felt like a real winner that day.
You were. You were a real winner that day.
Ron says, you were.
Yeah. Story, and it's a great example for your listeners and one that every everyone listening can can replicate. It's a it's a great story on the example you gave on the plastic bags. We're running a major initiative at Closed Loop Partners on reinventing the user experience around shopping and what those bags look like. It's called Reinvent the Bag. So if any of your listeners want to Google reinvent the Bag, or go to our website and look for it if they're interested in that area. That's one thing that's a major focus of ours is how do we reinvent the consumer experience to make sure people can easily get the things that they need but avoid all of those bags.
Another thing you can do with those bags is weave them into blankets for the homeless. I mean, you can also just give them like good blankets, but apparently the installation factor of them are decent.
Well, that's the thing about plastic is that it's this bag that was made to use once. But the way plastic is designed is it doesn't really break down. So from the perspective of beature, it's extremely dangerous. From a usability standpoint, plastic can be a great product. Yeah, literally make it into blankets for homeless and it'll be water proof and generate heats. It's important for people listening to understand like plastic in and of itself isn't necessarily that plastic has a lot of major benefits. It's super lightweight, it can be formed into multiple shapes, so there's a lot of benefits to plastic. The key is it can never be virgin plastic because that means that there's a fossil fuel extracted. We should be using material science to develop plastics that can be manufactured in labs, and whatever plastic is out in the market, we have to make sure that we're always always recycling it to make sure that it never ends up in nature.
Beautiful ron Where can people get more from you? Your book? More knowledge from you? If this is an exciting topic, How do people get at you?
There's my book The Waste Free World that people can learn about the history of the linear economy, the circular economy. There's lots of really fun and interesting stories in there. So that's one area to learn about the circular economy. And other area is if you go to our website Closingpartners dot com and you just look at our different portfolio companies with about fifty companies all doing really innovative things in the circular economy. That's also a great way to learn about innovative solutions and great companies in the circular economy.
That's awesome, and the book will definitely make you rethink the things that you may have taken for granted and definitely make you double think about the waste that you're producing. I know it did for me, so I highly highly recommend the book.
It's great.
Thank you, Thank you. So much for saying that, and any of your listeners that get the book, I hope they enjoy it and also learn from it and love to always hear from people about.
What they thought excellent.
Thank you so so much, Ron for being with us today for sharing about the circular economy. It's been a blast, all right.
Thank you so much, guys. It's great to be with you today.
Whoo.
Well, that was fun re listening to that interview when you all got a special treat of hearing Jen's voice again. She is still alive. She's just nursing a baby and trying to sleep whenever she can. So we got Chloe here to wrap us up. But I do kind of want to give a follow up to that lightning round to say that I proudly am still using reusable bags at the grocery store. I bring in my own, even when the grocery store is offering them to me, I still bring in my own. I felt a little funny at first. That feeling has passed and I just I'm in my mid thirties now I don't really care what people think on anything about me, and it's getting worse and worse.
Of beauty, Oh my gosh. I was at a wedding last week and my grandparents were there, and I was like, I haven't seen my grandpa in a while. And he came out to the pool wearing like his socks with his like flip flops and like had like a toothbrush just like sticking out of his like his pocket here.
And I was like, man, I can't wait to get to.
The level of no, no ass given, none, like none at all.
And that's that's what scares me a little bit, because I do see that in people in their sixties, seventies, eighties, and and I'm a little concerned with where I already am in my mid thirties, like what will this produce? But you know what, probably great things free. How much I love seeing the elderly community just out there doing their thing, not.
Caring one hundred percent. I carings. I think the key is to like still care about like social issues and to like stay up to date on like what matters, because obviously what we think is like cool and progressive now is going to be very different in twenty thirty forty years. But like you combine that with the like I don't care about anything, it's.
This like it's this beautiful existence. I think.
I hope I'm there to watch you on Instagram combine that beautiful seventies. Yeah, and I actually did the other day. Don't do this often, but I did mend clothes I had. I got to this point where I had a whole list of things that need that I liked and I didn't want to have to replace them. They just needed a little bit of patching up, and I did it and got something. It was something to do. You know, while I'm mending clothes, I can't be spending money, so that was nice, and I don't have to buy the things to replace them.
Yeah.
I've done that a few times too, and I'm always like, this is actually easy. It's not the prettiest like patchwork, but yeah, you know it works.
You weren't there for the interview, But do you have any things that you do that are more circular, more sustainable?
So I have to admit I have never heard the phrase circular before, which I guess is revealing on my involvement in the sustainability community. It's not that I'm against it. I'm just I'm new to it. And I do love though that everything we do in terms of frugality. Almost everything is sustainable in a lot of ways, so I have a lot of that naturally, where like, for example, I will drive my car, which is a Prius, until it dies, period, end of story, because it's obviously I think it's wasteful to buy a new car every couple of years, but also it's a Prius, and I don't know, if you've seen the cost of car ownership in today's world, you know, I will do everything I can to ride ride my old Prius till it dies. Besides that, I mean it's something that I definitely think about a lot, like I do. I think a lot of the things I do are just kind of entrenched in my habits already, like bringing those plastic bags or bringing those reusable bags to the grocery store.
All d makes it.
Easy because it's like everybody's doing that. You don't even you don't even give you a choice. Yeah, you don't even think about it. And I think it's interesting too, because I also think the mindset around sustainability varies so heavily based off of where you live, because like when you're in California, everyone's thinking about it, everyone's doing the things. There's it'd be weird if you didn't bring your bags to the grocery store, Whereas in Arizona there's like not even recycling, Like nobody, none of the apartment complex have recycling people. And it depends on what part. Like in Phoenix or Scottsdale where I was at, I was in this huge apartment complex and there was no recycling, and I just remember just being like, Wow, this is weird.
That's a weird thing to get used to. Yeah, I've been places like that, Like what where you mean you don't have a place for recycling?
What do I do?
Like?
Do I put it in my bag into your hall? Yeah?
And like I get the argument that a lot of the recycling that gets quote unquote recycled doesn't actually get recycled, So I get it, but it's like, at least I feel better, No, I'm doing what I can, you know, by by putting that recycling out. So yeah, I don't have a ton of different ways where I am actively doing it. And that actually, as I was like preparing for this question, I was like, apparently I need.
To be better about this.
I was like, all right, called action though, that I mean, that's honest, And I think a great place where a lot of people are probably finding themselves, and even just engaging in that question is not even the beginning. That's like step ten, which is excellent, and you already do have examples. I think I love the heavy hitter of considering transportation because we love to talk about these smaller factors. And as much as I am glad that I take in my own bags, that's almost like the latte factor, where okay, but how much of a DN is. I'm not saying don't do it, but we're not going to make huge strides in our savings or spending goals if we're only cutting out the lattes and the cappuccinos. We also want to thinking about these things that make big impacts on the environment and on our budgets. And I think when we consider housing and transportation and really where we spend the most of our money is also where we can be considering some huge gains in sustainability as well.
So for sure, I forgot probably the biggest examples. I don't eat meat and I don't drink alcohol. Hey yea, so those two alone are huge.
I always forget about that. I'm like, oh yeah, I also live my.
Life very sustainably in that aspect, and I've you know, I've read that one of the biggest things that you can do is even just cutting out meat once a week. And so I'm covered, guys, I got that.
I'm covered.
I'm making all the good decisions. Oh oh, I just remember, I'm amazing.
I forgot. I'm basically a chance of sustainable I'm just kidding.
It's Bob Shell over here exactly.
But no, it's like I said, I'm like, I don't think about it a lot because it's a lot of stuff that I do naturally, is like I don't eat meat. It didn't start out as a reason for climate change. It started out because I don't really like meat, and like it's not very healthy most of the time. And then the alcohol thing too, you know, it wasn't necessarily because of sustainability. It's just like one of those benefits that come from it, you know, all the bottle usage that you get from from drinking beer or whatever, you know, and then not only that, the alcohol plants and like the exhaust and all that stuff that comes off of that. I think in a way is sustainable. But yeah, it's just stuff that I don't think about and just doing it anyway.
Love that. Well, friends, that's Chloe again.
You should be following her champion out here very at least, I'm very honest.
It's a basic bombshell champion doing what I can.
Oh man, well, this is great, and thank you guys so much for listening. We love love reading your kind reviews, and we especially loved this one from doctor Cindy lu Who, which shout out to doctor Cindy lu Who because The Grinch is my favorite, Like it's like it's like my number one favorite movie during Christmas.
I have to watch it like four times.
Yes, but the title of her review was or Cindy lu Who, whatever your pronouns are, non judgmental financial advice. I love how affirming the hosts are. So many personal finance spaces rely on shame to motivate their audience, but Jen and Jail focus on learning about yourself and your values. I appreciate when they talk about seasons of life and acknowledge that priorities change over time.
That's such a nice review.
That is such a nice review. We love these nice reviews. Thank you so much, doctor Cindy lu Who for just being so kind when so many people are choosing the opposite of kindness. Look at you, and I'm so thrilled that this has been a helpful space for you where you can find judgment free and helpful advice. Thank you everyone for listening, and if you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to leave a rating and review. It really does help potential new listeners to know what the show is about, that it is about friendship and fun and finances and like not just finances. And so your reviews helped to weed out the people who might not be a Frugal Friend. And we love that. And thank you, Cindy lu Who, and thank you Chloe, and thank you everyone, and thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you awards.
Here's my acceptance speech, Cindy lou Who, thank you so much.
All right with that, we'll see y'all next time.
Bye.
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
It's like I'm like picturing you standing up at a at a podium, just like I want to think, Mike.
It started to feel that way to me, and I think especially because hearing someone else read their usually it's gener I reading the ratings and reviews and the membership wins and all of the time, so hearing you read it, and also your voice is so great too. I think the end of all of these episodes that you're on, I'm just gonna fan out because I'm realizing you you don't talk that much on your Instagram. It's more like music and dancing and words across the screen. But you have a very great voice that thank you. I could read positive reviews, listen to positive reviews out of your mouth all day and it did. It felt like an award show to me.
I am so honored.
I just apparently anytime I need time, I need a hype, I just need to come onto the Frugal Friends podcast and be like, thank you.
So much, Jill. I will take all of these compliments.
It's funny though that you say that, because the money Bear podcast, I you know, started doing it last July, and the reason I started I was like, oh, talking is easy.
I can. I can do this all day long, every day. And I love the sound of my own voice.
And recently, I want to say it was like two months ago I was listening to a podcast with my friend career coach Darcy, and she's got a great podcast voice.
She's very like very.
Even keel, like just smooth, and I was listening and then when my part would come on, it sounded like I was yelling at her.
I was like, I was like, Chloe, what are you doing?
It was like, because I'm just so excited, high energy, it's like that almost that like presentation voice, and so I have had to start practicing like lowering my register just to not like yell.
At people, like excitedly yelling people.
So you have to go back and listen to that specific episode because I'm like, oh my, I can't even stand listening to myself. But I'm glad that I listened to myself because I'm like, Chloe, that is obnoxious.
So it feels like my call to action. I feel like I'm so excited and hyped most of the time that I'm that I am yelling.
No, I will say I've never felt and I don't think Darcy felt like I was yelling at her. I think she probably just thought I was like really excited, but I didn't get any yelling.
Vibe your own impression.
So yeah, everybody can go and listen to that episode and be like, yeah, you are kind of yelling.
You know, it was like positive yelling, but don't leave.
A bad review for it. No, she knows she's correcting.
I'm working on it, so but hey, we're still new to the podcast. Do you ever listen to your early episodes?
Oh? I don't think I did a while ago, and never again. It's so much, it's too cringey. But you know, everyone told us from the start, don't worry about it, just start put it out there. No one's going to go back and listen to that first episode. They do for years. That very first episode was the number one downloaded episode, I want to say, for at least the first two years of the podcast.
And oh yeah, the ones, the ones I get the message on the most is my first one. It's the very first episode, and I'm like wow, And then I think about it. When I start to like a podcast, I do the same thing. I go back to the very first one to like listen to a few in order.
But yeah, you know, it's just one of the things. They get it.
They get to see and witness the growth in real time, and hopefully that's encouraging for them to start their own two.
Oh ooh, look to talk about coming full circle podcast Circular ecolomy. Oh friends, your own.
Yeah, this is literally what I was thinking about last night was you know, I think so many people want to do something, like they want to start an Instagram account, they want to start creating content about something, but they often tell themselves, well, too many people are doing that right now. And I just think about, like, but somebody out there is starting today and you don't like they could be the next big thing, but it's because they just decided to start. And I was like, Wow, that's so profound, Like while I'm sitting on my toilet and just like, yeah, I need to share that.
I need to tell people this.
We're all we're.
All on the toilet. Whish.
I love that there's a profound thought to leave you guys with.
Oh, hopefully you're also listening to this podcast on the toilet.
That'd be fun too. Let us know, yes, please let us know