Keeping Financial Secrets from Your Spouse with Caroline Vencil

Published May 19, 2023, 7:00 AM

While honesty is a component in solidifying relationships, Caroline had to keep some financial secrets from her husband to make their finances work (because married life is not always filled with great laughter and romantic late-night talks.) Still, there is a greater challenge in fulfilling one’s role in the marriage and responsibility with their family. In this episode, we hear from Caroline about why and how she kept financial secrets and what it meant for them. 

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Episode three eleven, Keeping Financial Secrets from your Spouse with Caroline Bensel.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast.

My name is Jill and my.

Name is Alison aka Jen.

Now, yeah, kind of Jen.

We've got Alison again as a stand in co host as Jen is still out on parental leave caring for the beautiful babe she birthed. But she'll be back soon. You'll be hearing from Jen again in the June episodes and beyond. But Alison from Inspired Budget, who was all over the Internet Instagram a podcast by the same name, is here and she's not just a fellow person in the personal finance space, but a friend. And yes, so we're so excited and this has gone so well. Both this time and the last time Jen gave birth. You were a standing co host, so just the ride er Die, the tried and true.

Thanks for being here.

I'm here for any massive life changes.

Yes, and we're going to bring in another friend, Caroline, who will give a bit of an intro to but we are going to be talking about keeping financial secrets from spouse's how that can go awry what Caroline story is. But first, this episode is brought to you by Secrets, those juicy little nuggets of information that you share with just a few people, but inevitably it leaks out to a larger crowd. Well, Secrets aren't doing.

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Absolutely everyone should get it.

If this conversation about money with partners is something that you really want to dig into a little bit more. Certainly, stay with us because this is a really good conversation. But also que up episode two thirty one being frugal with a non frugal partner. I know a lot of us feel the pain there. We're on board with getting our finances in order, but we might have a partner who's not. So listen into that one. Got some great tips for you, and episode one twenty six, Healthy Financial Boundaries with Family and Friends takes a little bit different of a perspective on how can we set in place some of these important boundary lines that are going to be protective for us when it comes to our personal finances. But again, stay here with us because Caroline is really amazing.

We have had her on the show before.

She is a money saving expert, especially when it comes to her family of six living on one income after becoming a teen mom. She is a master of living on a tight budget and still having and living a full life. So now as a six figure entrepreneur, she works from home and teaches other women how to make their money work for them and to take charge of their own financial lives.

She is going to.

Dig deeper with us about some of the decisions she made with her husband early on in marriage, how she kept some financial secrets, what that meant for them in their financial life, and kind of what she might do differently now looking back. But I don't want to give away too much about it. Just it's a good conversation. So let's dig in. Caroline, welcome. We are so excited to have you back again.

We can't get enough.

Oh, I'm so glad to be back. Thank you for having me.

We are talking about something quite salacious, even in Jen's absence, So we're really going out on a limb here, like I know, the cats or the cats away, the mice and mice tagging into some hot takes and you're here for it. I got some too amazing females here chatting about this stuff. So talking about finances with our spouse, some of the things that we've done that maybe aren't so good but maybe still work, some of the things that maybe we would do differently. But first, can we just start with your story. We're talking about, you know, your personal experience of hiding money from your spouse, What happened, what led to that, just you know, we've got our coffee.

I know, let's just digrade the tea. I actually Caroline has the tea. We have the coffee perfect.

I love that.

Well.

So hi everybody, I'm Caroline, And my story basically starts when I was a freshman in college, like two years or two months into my freshman year, I met my now husband, and so I'm eighteen. I had just graduated high school like six months before we met and had an absolute world wind romance and got engaged like this is my person and then promptly got pregnant, and so we were kind of forced into this situation where we probably wouldn't have had to talk about finances or like what it means to be kind of like financial partners in a relationship for probably at least a year or so, but nope, we were just thrown right into it. And it turns out that we were pretty different in our finances and in the way that we thought about money and in the way that we were brought up. We viewed our gender roles are like personality types, what we were entitled to do and have with our finances, and so, wouldn't you know it, that wound up leading to a lot of friction for us. We wound up butting heads constantly when it comes to finances, and it wasn't really until probably like after our son was born. About like six months after our son was born, I started getting hit with overdraft fees in my bank because I wasn't paying attention to it because I was at home with the child. I wasn't spending money, and so turns out my savings account had been completely depleted because my husband was just swiping that card constantly. And he's a great guy. Let me be clear, I love my husband. We were in a much much better place now. We've been together since twenty or two twenty ten, I guess, I don't know two thousand and nine. It was a long time ago.

But we can't even count that fire.

I know he started throwing around like we're gonna be the other like fifteen years, and like you got a backup. I'm too young for that. But we had these kinds of like conversations really kind of forcefully, and it was it was kind of this moment of like, what did you husband do to my finances? There's no more money? And his come up was, I work, so I should be able to spend my money how I want. And that makes total sense when you're you know, twenty five and single, when you're in a relationship, when you're in a partnership, and when you have a family, that does tend to change financial dynamics and just kind of relational dynamics as well, And so that was really difficult for him to overcome mentally. So it was still very much a this is my money, I work for it, I should be able to spend it. And here I come be in the voice of reason, like we need to buy diapers for this baby.

We had a body trained yet he's only three, yes.

And when he is body's trained, he's gonna want food, he's gonna get out, he needs clothes. And so this was a lot for my husband at the time to process and we really really fought for a long time. And something for him that was really difficult to get past was the idea of not just like, you know, it's my money, but there wasn't really a future that was possible in his mind. It was like, I'm just gonna spend because I make eleven dollars an hour, Like what's the point of even trying to save anything that I would save would be like a dollar, So what's the point, I'll just spend it. And that's not my come up. I'm the saver, he's the spender. And so, needless to say, we wound up with a lot of a lot of butting heads, a lot of threats of divorce, of leaving, and ultimately wound up in a lot of therapy that helped a lot, and now we are in a lot better place financially in our marriage and our relationship together. But it did start pretty rocky. Not gonna lie, Oh, I.

Have a question. Actually, actually it's not a question. It's more of an observation. You said, Caroline that your husband was thinking, I make this money, I deserve to spend it how I want. I feel like that's not like I feel like a lot of people feel that way, whether they're single or married, And it's kind of like this, we put in the work and the effort, and now I should be able to spend the money how I want and I don't want anyone else to tell me how to do it. And I want to be able to buy what I want to buy. And I say that all from experience as well, Like I felt that way. I think that's definitely normal. So oh yeah, And I'm guessing, like because I know whenever y'all were doing this back then, this is not whenever I feel like therapy was popular. I know you guys didn't go to therapy back then. You probably didn't honestly have the budget for it. So you're in a better place, You're in a different place. He sees things differently. How did you get there? How did you get him there? Over to the bright side to leave the dark side.

If you will.

So this is kind of where it gets a little salacious, as you'll put it so very well and actually put it earlier. I started after we had this huge knockdown, drag out fight about like there is no future, why would I bother saving? And I had kind of hit this moment of I am not going to be living paycheck to paycheck for the rest of my life. I was like twenty one at the time, by the way, like I was like twenty or twenty one at this point. I'm like, I cannot fathom that I will live until I'm in my nineties, because all my grandparents are in their nineties. God blessom, Like, I'm not going to live paycheck to paycheck until I die, It's not going to happen. And so that was the moment when I realized, I'm like, either you're going to do this with me, or I'm going to do this and you're going to come along for the ride. Now let me before we get anywhere. I am not advocating financial abuse in any way, shape or form, like this is just happened to work in my situation. But we'll talk about that in a second.

You're advocating boundaries there were, whether it's boundaries and a marriage or boundaries that you put on yourself inside of marriage.

Yes's and it's kind of a it was a forceful help in the right pla direction. That is how I try to view it. But ultimately, what I started doing was I started giving my husband's debit card a limit, a daily limit.

He couldn't exceed.

Twenty dollars a day, and it had a twenty dollars from our primary checking account limit. Each week, it would he would transfer twenty dollars onto his debit card and that was all the money that he had for the week. Now did he know about this, Yes, he did.

He had to be nowhere.

It was it was a rough first few weeks where he would blow through all of that money on Monday and then be like, well, I don't have any money for work for the rest of the week for lunch. I'm like, you have food at home? We just spent all this money on groceries.

Like that's no fun, I know, but yeah.

Well, where did you come up with a twenty dollars limit?

That was what we felt that he could afford and that was reasonable. And again, this was, you know, back in twenty eleven or something, So call it fifteen dollars, or call it twenty five dollars, call it forty dollars, whatever makes sense to you. That's what worked for us. And that was again we were making eleven twelve dollars an hour at the time. And I know that nobody does that anymore. I totally know that. But for us, that was all that we could reasonably afford. That in my head, was enough for him to buy the food that he wanted for the week. Still feel like he could splurge, Like if you wanted to go to Burger King or whatever was around the corner from work, you can. You have that kind of freedom, but you can't do it every single day for lunch and then after work or then before work or whatever it was. So it was enough to feel like he was able to do what he wanted without going over.

Okay, so you set the limit, he begrudgingly obliged.

Yeah, and what else? So that was when I started moving money from our checking account into a savings account that was separate from our checking account, so there was no possible way that there was like an overdraft and it would just take that money out. This was a completely separate account, and each week on payday, I had an automatic withdrawal and deposit set up from checking to savings. So let's say it was one thousand dollars paycheck for that week, two hundred dollars would directly go into savings immediately, so it only looked like there was eight hundred dollars left. And so once all the bills were paid in everything and the card spids and it got declined because there was no money, he's like, oh, I guess there's no money. I'll just stop.

But he didn't know.

He did not know that that money was moving.

So you were setting aside about twenty percent of his net pay, and he had no idea. So here he is going along thinking, oh, we're in the exact same position. We are making the exact same amount of we have enough, We're in the exact same position, we have the exact same amount of spending money. But then you have Caroline over there and stand in a dark corner squirrelings exactly saying, ah, I'm going to take us on a family vacation or something like. And you don't even know about it?

Is that?

Is that what it was? Okay, how long did you do this for?

It was? It was for I don't even remember how long it was because it was twenty percent right off the top, and if you worked any overtime at all, right in there immediately, Like so if he worked extra time and a half right into the savings account. He's like, ma'am, we're going through money pretty quick.

I'm like, yeah, it's all that burger king you're getting before work and afterwork. So I'm I'm curious because I'm I'm not like against separate finances. I'm not even against separate accounts in terms of you know, my husband has a separate checking account that is his spending money. I pay him as a contractor. He gets to spend that money. However it is I don't have access to it. Did he have access to this savings account? Or was it just Caroline Vensel's name only and that that's it.

I'm just curious. So this is the.

Fun part, which is if he actually logged in, Oh my goodness, right there. I the amount of times I have given this man, and I love this man, the amount of times I have given him. I'm like, this is your account log it's on your phone. You can look at it. He's never done it once, never done it.

Yeah, so he could have done if he wanted to. You weren't doing acrobatics to count this information from him. But even if you were, and I hear you saying, I don't recommend you know this form of secrecy. But it's more of a surprise than it is this kind of abusive financial situation. It's, you know, kind of some of the things that we might do in relationships to give a nice gift to somebody. Again, this does speak to other issues and we're not using yeah as a Oh here's a hot tip on how you like start your savings account if your spouse isn't on board. This is one of those like sell them what they want, give them what they need.

Situation.

Yes, So with that, what is there something different that you would have done looking back and looking at maybe the realities or someone else is in a similar situation where there's just not buy in for the financial pieces that need to come together.

What to do is like is.

It like I don't know?

Yeah, I guess just like squirrel it away and don't tell your partner or or is there something looking back you could say I could have done this differently?

Yeah. I am a huge advocate of therapy, and finding a therapist that is covered by your insurance plan helps to mitigate some of that cost. We learned that when we started looking into therapists, we thought it was going to be like two hundred dollars an hour. It was twenty with our Copey So that changed a lot. I know right, what I know are.

A lot who will operate on a slaving sliding scale fee.

Yea, So it's yeah, And.

That was my big thing. If I could go back, I would find a therapist who was capable of helping with not like helping with finances, but really our therapist when we lived in Pennsylvania. I love our therapist. He was the only person who was ever able to get through in asher for my husband. It was a lot of people who were kind of just like, you know, the man is supposed to understand finances. I'm like, but this one doesn't. This model does not like I need, I need more than just like this is supposed to be something that they know it's like, but it's not. It's not. And he was never taught it. And so I went in assuming that he would know finances. And I was like blown away that I was so wrong. But I don't recommend like hiding things from your spouse. I believe leave that marriage and any kind of a relationship, it should be a partnership. You should have these kinds of conversations. But I also had heard this, and this is when I started saving the money and scurolling it away was clean up your side of the street first and then wait to see how people react to it. And so I was like, I'm going to do this for me. I'm going to do this for myself, for our son, for our future. And so I started saving and it was when it got to one thousand dollars in the savings account, like we didn't really feel a great deal of a pinch. And that was when I told him about it. And it wasn't until we had hit that and it was it was probably like six months. Again, we were like not making a lot of money at all at the time.

But still, that's that's incredible.

Yeah, And so when I told him about it, I again, he's not a violent person at all, but he was upset. He was like, why were you hiding money from me? It was like, because you would have spent it all. And once he really like stopped and was like, oh my gosh, So wait, you're telling me that in six months we were able to save one thousand dollars and I didn't really even notice it. I'm like, yes, now you get it. Now you understand that with a little bit of intentionality, we can actually plan for a future. We can save, we can go on these vacations that we want to and we don't have to live paycheck to paycheck and that's just what we have to accept. But that's kind of like I do a huge advocate for going to therapy if you feel like you're struggling and you want to make your relationship work and neither one of you are seeing eye to eye, and even if you feel like you're in the right one hundred percent, seek third party help, have somebody who can be a what is it called, like a mediator mediator to be in that middle place, to be like, okay, so you're both kind of a little bit right, let's find some middle ground.

So yeah, I love that tip too, because so often, and it's not just about the money. I think we can assume, oh no, we just have to figure out how to crunch these numbers better.

We don't have to go pay somebody.

To let us talk to them. We can figure this out on our own. But the reality is is often it's deeper than that. It will touch on other relational dynamics cycles, patterns of relating issues within the marriage that may or may not even be connected to finances, But by addressing those, you're going to experience some breakthroughs when it comes to finances. So absolutely, I can't can't it enough and I will Also, this is my little side tangent say that to go to therapy and couple's therapy doesn't mean you're locked in for forever. You're going weekly and with no end in sight, and you're just hemorrhaging cash to this person that you're sitting on a couch with, quite the opposite, and you could state goals from the start about what is it that we want to talk about and resolve and set a target end date together. It could be that you're able to talk through the issue in three months, and it might not even mean that you're going weekly. It could be twice a month, once a month. So there really is a way to make it financially feasible if this is something that's being faced, and I think I want to highlight too. While this isn't your story of the financial secret being something that puts you into financial ruin, quite the.

Opposite, which is the best version.

All the secret is surprise, we've got money saved. But you know, for many there's financial secrets where it's it's the other end of the spectrum of we're going into debt, they're spending you don't know about. There's these things that I'm keeping hidden on purpose, and there might be a little bit of yeah, maybe not intentional maliciousness to it, but there's harm happening. And so either end of the spectrum, either whether you're in a situation where you feel like I have to save and I have to keep it from my spouse because they're just not on board. Or I'm spending or I'm going into debt and I feel so ashamed and I don't want to talk to my spouse about it either. One we can, there can be room for hope and conversation, and yes, a therapist can help there.

So I'm a well plug.

And I will also say I love your story, particularly because I feel like it's this underdog story of your husband was the one that you would assume would never get on board and appreciate saving because he loves spending. And once he saw what was possible, there was this total mindset shift, this light bulb, if you will. Maybe the clouds parted in the heavens shone down on him, I don't know. But he saw what was possible and he was able to make that change in his thinking, which I think all of us are capable of doing. But you don't always believe in ourselves enough. Yeah, sometimes we need our handheld a little bit to do that, and that's what you were there to do. So Caroline, thank you. I love I love your story. I think it's wonderful. I think that it's a great lesson for other people in what they what is hope for their possible partnership. And then also just an idea of like, Okay, Caroline did it this way, she handled it this way. It worked out in the end, but maybe my husband or my spouse partner wouldn't like that, So let me pivot to do something a little bit different but hopefully have the same outcome.

Yeah, and it is possible. We are people that are capable of change. Everybody is capable of change, and sometimes it does just take that little bit of a mindset tweak. And I did kind of force my husband's hand. Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry.

There's a kiddie.

I did force my husband's hand in this in our kind of relationship dynamic. But it did wind up being something for the better and it did wind up teaching him a lot. And I just said this the other day. I said this before we started recording to jenn and Allison. I'm like, he said something the other day about like, oh, and we can save more money if we do this, and I was like, oh, swoon, wait stop, did you just say that you could save money? You're like planning on ways to save Yes, tell me more like cook me dinner while I just look at you and you can talk about saving money.

Like we can move towards collaboration, we can get better in our partnership, which is beautiful, and yes, that is that is some hot marriage.

Stuff, righty, right.

One of the things to go back and dig into your story a little bit, because I'm just curious over here there's a I think unique part of what you're saying and others might experience this too, where you're talking about, Okay, you got to clean up your side of the street first, which I one hundred percent agree with. I think where the rub can come and I'd be curious your perspective and what you might recommend to other people in this situation where that mindset of well, I'm the bread winner, Like if you're in a one income household and one of the spouses is making the money, and let's say it's that spouse who doesn't have their kind of saving cap on, and it's the spouse who's taking care of the household, who might not be working for money at the time, being the one trying to drive some important financial decisions, what do you recommend for that specific rub what does cleaning up my side of the street if I'm not the one earning the money.

So to speak.

So I'm a little bit petty. I'm a little bit petty, And so I googled the salary of a stay at home mom. Nice. It was like, so, just so we're clear, you go to work for eight hours, not diminishing that in the least. He worked in a steel fabrication shut stop.

Thank you.

I know, like, please, don't like, I appreciate it, but you do this. I'm on call from eyes open to eyes closed, and in the middle of the night, if somebody gets sick, They're not waking you up, They're waking me up. And so I did what I thought was reasonable. I'm like, I'm at home all day making food, cleaning, cooking, taking care of kids, picking up dog poop, all of those things that you would have had to hire someone to do if it weren't me. And that helped also for him to see a lot of the invisible work that does go on. I have heard of people. No, I did not do this because I I wouldn't because I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. But I've heard people going on like a cleaning strike or like a doing oh my gosh, your spouse strike to prove the value of being that stay at home partner. I did not do that because I know that nothing would get done and that would stress me out.

You'd be probably fine with it.

They bother you more, I know, right, So that was not something that I did. But what I did do was show him the how much a stay at home mom makes. And I think salary dot count has that, so you all, I know, right, And it was something screwy, like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year or something. I can't remember what it was, but that was a big thing for him to be able to see, like all of this stuff, and sometimes it doesn't exactly get through. Sometimes people are a little bit dense and that's okay, and sometimes that's just not how they communicate. And sometimes you're fighting an uphill battle against their work environment too. My husband worked a blue collar job. He's around guys who are in blue collar jobs, and typically that machismo of like I make the rules, I'm the man of the house is something that we had to fight against because everybody, if everybody's doing it, it's like if everybody's going out to lunch and nobody else's wife says, here's your twenty dollars bill for the whole week. It does seem kind of not unfair, but also kind of unfair.

Ye.

And so for him that was something that he had to go to therapy individually for to kind of be able to see outside of that mold. We don't have a typical relationship in a lot of different situations, Like I manage all of the finances, and god bless him, he doesn't. I'm like, this is how much money we have, and all the bills are paid. He's like, thumbs up, that's good. Rights. That's the extent of his role, and he knows it. And so I do still like, I keep coming back to therapy. I keep coming back to having somebody in your corner being able to help you, being able to help your partner, being able to help your spouse, being able to help your family, whatever you want to look at it as, Yeah, being able to bring some kind of like a voice of reason to that conversation, because sometimes it does take a little bit of work. Sometimes it does take somebody who has also been in that situation. I can't be saying you need to work at this. It needs to be somebody that they know and trust who's like, dude, this is a problem. Listen to your wife and he's like, I see what you mean. Like that was what our therapist did. And I'm like, it took probably seven years into our marriage before a therapist was like, dude, you are you are actually being problematic? Do you see that? He's like, I see your point, Like.

Yeah, you get a lot of it's a lot of ego. It's a lot of dealing with your own ego and facing it. Yeah, it sounds like and that's hard work. And it sounds like he did the hard work, which is great.

Yeah, and I think that the secret is what brought to light. Okay, this actually needs to be looked at. I do think that there are some times, while maybe not a tip to replicate, but there are some times where something drastic needs to happen to shake the thing up. You know, while we all don't want crisis events in our lives, so often, the pivot point that we all point back to are those very events. You know, when I lost my job or I had to move, the housing market crash and it's these things were really awful. We don't want to replicate them, we don't wish them on anybody else. But if there's any silver lining in it, it highlights this thing, and I think too, to remove some of the mystery out of this thing that we keep coming back to of. If you keep coming to a dead end, seek out therapy, seek out a mediator. What that's going to do is find the inroads of negotiation, help somebody see, help each partner see where the other one is coming from that you may not be able to get to on your own, and create those spaces for each other to exist in ways that are kind to both parties that sometimes we can't do on our own.

So yes, yeah, yes, yeah, And not even just that, but like because of the the concept of like I didn't want to give him any money when we were initially starting. I'm like, no, you just don't go to like what's wrong with you? Like, no money, don't go to Burger King. He's like, no, that's not see that would I see it? Face this spire is like that's not happening.

You can't deprive him.

And if someone did that to me, I would be like, Okay, I'm gonna spend all the money. Then you tell me I can't spend anything, I'm a spend it at all. That's what I would be like. And that's I mean, you know, I had an allowance as well. It was a self imposed allowance, but it was a self imposed allowance I gave myself after being told, you know, telling myself you're not gonna spend anything, and it's just not.

Realistic, it's not And that was kind of part of that. That kind of like a dynamic. It is an ebb and flow. It is finding in roads, it is finding compromise. It's saying you can have twenty dollars instead of zero. These are the two ours that we can go with and finding that middle ground and being able to accommodate, like you do want to feel like I make the money, I should be able to spend it how I want. Yeah, that's giving him that ability without completely stripping it away and emasculating him and making him go without something that he really enjoyed once a week. It just makes it more important because instead of it being every day, it is just once in a while, But you still have that choice. That's the big thing.

Speaking of doing what I want and something that we love to get once or twice a week, usually twice a week.

Oh, where are we going here? Where are we going here?

That's right for the best minute of your entire week.

Maybe a baby was.

Born and his name is Williams. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week.

We'reting good at that.

That was adorable, all right, Caroline, You know the drill every week.

Multiple times a week.

God our yass or our listeners to share their bill of the week. And because this time you're a guest and not just a listener, the honor is yours.

What's your bill?

Well?

Thank you.

My bill is actually my father in law of Bill, who has a YouTube channel that I think now has one hundred and twenty five thousand subscribers. Nice, I know, and it's so cute he has on their mantle. He has his plaque from YouTube. But wait, it's kind of like off to the side and behind a plant. It's like a humble brag right.

Yah.

I love to still see it, but kind of an ambient guitar channel. You should check it out.

Oh, yes, what's it called?

Chords of Orion Hords chord cords ambient guitar Orion Orion Chords of Orion like a guitar, Chord of Orion like a constellation.

Wow, we're gonna shoot up that subscriber ship. He used to have a plaque behind a plant.

That's I know, have another go that's right now that one gets to be in front of the plant.

Oh, Carol Aara, you are just feeding me what I want bills that are real bills, and especially when they're father in law's with a following and a.

Unique niche setting on YouTube tube. Oh this is beautiful.

He's awesome words of oryon if you're monetizing it. Of course he is a hi. Good for him and he gets he gets like alhar pedal.

Let's have a gre business meeting for Bill.

I know, right?

Can we talk about his five year plan?

How does he want to grow it? What does he see for the future?

Wow?

Well, if you're listening and you happen to have a father in law named Bill with a huge following on YouTube, or you just happen to pay off a bill, or you like carrying wads of bills in your pocket. Hopefully it's dollar bills and not like a bunch of actual people named Bill in your pocket. I don't know. I don't know what you do, though, we're here for it. Submit it to us. We love listening. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash bill. Leave us your bill. Were ready for it, and now it's time for the lighting around.

Oh my favorite part of the show.

That you've come to enjoy it, Alison, I have. I've come to enjoy it.

Really, she can't. Don't listen to her.

She knows something about my loud noise, my loud aggressive noises.

But where else am I going to get it out? I don't know.

She's got to just accept you for you, you know, And that's what I do. I accept you for everything that you are. Jen, if you're listening, just love her for it, not in spite of it.

I live in Florida now, but there's still a little filly there.

There you go, There you go. We are loud, aren't we?

So this lightning round as this is the part Jen like, she wants to make it vulnerable.

So hats off to you, Jen.

We're still honoring you in your absence, What something you do now to communicate effectively with your spouse about finances? Caveat here, none of us are saying that we've arrived, that we all haven't figured out communicating finances with our spouse. But what for you all all answer to is working when it comes to some of these more difficult financial conversations.

Okay, Carol, first, Okay, I'll make a first.

I was like, I already know what I'm going to say, filled out. No, if you're ready the Google doc spill it. Okay. So what has worked with my husband and I is being direct but without judgment. So one thing that I sometimes maybe every now and then, okay all the time do is I make assumptions that he knows what I'm thinking or feeling, especially what I'm thinking, because if I'm thinking it, it only makes sense that he's thinking it too, because I'm always right right. Well, Unfortunately, he can't read my mind, and so there's a lot of times when it comes to our money or even other areas of our life where we have to be very direct in saying, here's what I want this money to go to, or here's the goal I want to work on or here's what I want to change. And we are very direct so that way there's no guessing. There's no question on oh, did you really mean this instead but you said that. No, there's none of that. But we do it in a way that is very judgment free. So there have been times when I have been overspending and he has come to me and he has said, hey, I have noticed that you are overspending on the credit card. What's going on? And I'm like, darn, I wish you wouldn't have noticed that. Well, here's what's going on. And it's a very direct conversation, but through grace and no judgment and no name calling and just open and honesty and just to where we can come to each other and really as a team work together as a team.

I got to imagine that's taken a lot of practice to actually be able to highlight something that you see and then not become offended and shut down the conversation. I imagine it's taken work to get there.

Yes, I mean we've been married for almost twelve years, so it definitely has taken work. And guess what therapy therapy The new sponsor of the city, as I know apparently apparently just.

Believe in it exactly.

So I would definitely say that we that has not always been a possibility for us, but it is now and it's not perfect every time, but we're able to go through and have those conversations and say like, oh, well the way you know that's hurting my feelings or anything like that.

So it's been I love that question of I've noticed and what's going on? Because I mean, you didn't say this, but I'm imagining that it probably does highlight something else. It's not just you're so awful for overspending. It probably is you might be really stressed and what's going on in your life that this might be the outlet that you're coping with this. Yeah, so the question, the way that you all have framed it together, sounds like there's an opening to talk about life and personhood and not just the number in front of you exactly.

Yeah, because money is math, but money is also emotional, so it leaves room to address the math but deal with the emotions.

Yeah.

True, So like that for you guys, Yeah, that's awesome. What about you, Caroline.

It's finding we really like to kind of find the middle ground for both of us where he knows that I'm a saver. And so when I hear about him saving money or finding ways to save money or recommending something that doesn't cost money, it speaks my love language in.

Such a way.

Like if he's like, I went to the supermarket and got steaks and we're going to cook them at dinner and we're going to have a nice dinner after the kids go to bed, and that's going to be our date night. Like say, less, we don't have to spend you know, one hundred and fifty dollars getting a steak dinner and find a sitter and make sure that everything works out and everything like that, Like it's a low key thing, and that speaks my love language.

You had to say stay at home.

I know. I'm happy to stay home, eat a steak and play video you had me at steak. That's it. That's all I need. And then for him, when I say things like yeah, you can go out and buy blankety blank whatever it is, it's usually something for like his motorcycle or something. He's like, can I get this for my motorcycle? I'm like, good news. We've been saving money for this exact event. You can get whatever you want for your motorcycle, as long as the money's in the account, and he just like his eyes laid up. He's like really like, yes, of course you can. And it doesn't throw off our budget or anything like that, because it's always been put away for him and so for him when I can kind of accept that he wants to spend money without giving him like a lot of pushback, and obviously like that motorcycle things are expensive and we've been saving for that, so this was a planned thing, but like it's still to him, is me kind of speaking that love language for him, of understanding that spending is something that he likes to do and it's inherent for him. And so again still kind of going back to like the therapy of if you ever feel like you can't have a conversation about something, that should be a red flag, Like if you feel like you can't talk to your partner, whether it's your spouse or just like a long term partner, if you feel like you can't talk to them about something, then maybe there's like a point where you would want to go to therapy without having seen like maybe you're overspending or maybe you're hiding finances but if you feel like you can't talk to them, that would be that situation. But for us being able to kind of meet each other halfway in our spending and or savingness personality, it's been really helpful.

It sounds like paying attention to noticing, highlighting and appreciating, valuing what is not in the.

Nature of the other person.

For you pointing out and verbalizing, oh, gosh, thank you so much for having your sights on saving I know that's not like obviously you've worked on that. And for him to appreciate you and saying spent absolutely freedom for that and to not that the permission is yours to give, but for him to know that you support him in that and you're not going to hold this grudge over him for having spent is beautiful.

Yeah.

I love that too.

Yeah, okay, Jill, I want to hear yours.

Yes. So, speaking of keeping my side of the street clean, Oh so this pairs with self understanding. I have learned, not just in finances but other aspects of life that if I feel as though a message is important and I have a tendency to overdramatize or inflate the situation, I feel as though I need to make it larger than it is in order for you to actually grasp the reality of what it is, like, it needs to be overinflated, because that's how I think you'll actually then measure it rightly. It's like telling someone who's always late to something that it starts super early.

Yes, it's basically, how can I make this matter to you as well? Yeah, so let me make it a bigger deal, because otherwise I'm afraid it won't matter to you like it matters to me.

And I think I put everyone in that box like everyone's going to be late, so I need to tell everybody that it's happening. It's not necessarily based on the person. It's more so me that I think I need to overinflate important messages. So my husband, we've been married eleven years now, he knows this about me, and it works the opposite as a result, because he knows that I over inflate things, he then will like minimize it so much like it won't. So I have learned that I need to be very specific and factual about what it actually is and not not become even heightened or elevated in the way that I'm portraying it, because then it could sound very doom and gloom. So, for instance, this is quite vulnerable. I'll try and make it quick. We recently had a tax bill that was unexpected, which felt a little bit shameful for me being in the personal finance space, like how did I not see this coming? Anyhow, I'm over it now to the point where I'm able to share it to the masses that yes, here I am co host of a personal finance podcast for five years and unexpected tax bill, but it did cause us, my husband and I need to tighten the belt buckles for over the past couple of months to reply some of our coffers, and I did my best in that situation to be like, here's the reality. Here's how much it took out of this savings bucket. Here's where I want to get it back up to based on our surplus each month. Here's how long I think it's gonna take us, and what we're going to need to do in order to see that. And I think for him seeing the actual numbers, me not over inflating and just using these words with no tethering of it's really bad.

We can never go out. Aha, We're gonna I'm gonna lock you in your room.

And don't even look at anything on the computer that you might be able to buy, and give me all your credit cards, but actually help like inviting him into the because I'm the one who handles our personal finances, but actually showing him the numbers and giving him the real data on how we're gonna get there.

That has helped us tremendously, and it has allowed us to have a very life conversation about where we're not becoming emotionally heightened.

Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's I love that. I picture you putting together like a PowerPoint presentation and presenting it on the TV. You'd be like, Okay, here's the truth of where we are. Our tax bill was this much. This is how much we took out a saving he should cover the tax bill. Now we're going to take that number of times six, Well, it's going to take I can totally picture you and clicker, clicker.

Meanwhile, I'm like muzzling the lion inside of me that wants to be like, we have to stop, because because it's still there, I have to temper it inside myself so that he can actually receive the message. The way that it makes sense to him, and oh.

You know what you could do is you could put in the PowerPoint presentation on the inside this is how I feel, and the bottom corner pasa like roaring out along the city, and you'd be like, however, this is what I'm going to this is how this conversation. Yes, And it could be like yeah, it could be like hakuna matata, like we're gonna get along and it's gonna be a wonderful conversation. Let's move into the facts and the numbers here.

They need to be our therapist and I can do this.

And I actually I'll just be your partner. Can I just be your partner in it? We'll just kick him out, please, you think Eric out, He's out of here.

I'm in.

Allison's in. I'm gonna have so much fun making financial presentations with you about our money.

Show me the money that's all I need.

I'm gonna show it to you in a PowerPoint beautiful.

Well, I hope that for our listeners there's some sort of you find yourself in one of us, Caroline, Allison or myself, and you got some sort of tip about how to have these hard conversations without keeping secrets and Caroline, You've got such a great story and so many stories that relate to personal finances, and you're helping people in so many ways.

Where can people get more from you?

You can go to you my website, it's Carolyne Mensel dot com and there's a bunch of I have so many freebies. I have so many blog posts about frugality and saving and not all of them, I swear not all of them are just based off of like a spend or a saver mindset, like they're actually for people who can do anything with their money. But it's a yeah, Carolynvensel dot com, go sand a bunch of freebies.

Do it?

Do it right? Thank you?

Bye ooh Allison, that felt so good.

It truly.

I know we get a lot of people saying, oh, it feels like a conversation amongst friends, and that's because it is a conversation and it is friends. But I forgot for a good couple of times that we were on a podcast recording, it just felt like, share your story with.

Me and what worked and what didn't.

And I think just I especially the three of us, being able to talk about our experiences with sharing finances with another person and running a household and the pitfalls in that, but then some of the things that have gone really well. I feel like there's so much I am going to continue to chew on in this episode.

I do too.

I love also how Caroline was willing to say, look, this is what I did. It might not be what I would do now, because we all make decisions with our money and our spouses that that, in hindsight, looking back, maybe they weren't the best. And I love that she's able to do that but then still be vulnerable enough to share her message and say like, hey, this is what I did. It did have a happy ending, it ended up working, but if I were to go back and navigate it differently, this is what I would do instead. So I love that vulnerability piece of it, because she very well could just be like, this is what I did and everyone should do it, and of course it worked, but she knows that that's not how it's going to work for everyone.

So I love that or the opposite of keeping it hidden because it doesn't sound so great. I kept a secret from my husband and it worked out for me. But I think that you know, there any time we're vulnerable and we share some of these personal stories, especially where we might have done things differently, there can be a lot of backlash and opinions on that. I think she did a great job describing what worked what didn't. But yeah, I think I just I commend anybody who's going to because it pulls the curtain back and it gives permission for others who find themselves in these situations where they might have done something or be doing something out of desperation and trying to find the solution to this problem that seems insurmountable and I can't really find my way through it to recognize, Okay, well there's someone who's been here before, and what would they recommend to me? And so, yes, thank you Caroline, Yes, thank you all who are listening for listening. Your listen means so much to us. And we also want to let you all know that we have a membership for you listeners that it is chalk full of other frugal friends who are paying off debt, where we do monthly money challenges, which is a really fun way to gamify our finances, help us get at our savings spending goals even and it offers accountability groups which is amazing for that community value that we know is so important in achieving some of those financial goals, whether it's paying off debt or saving you name it, and we want to congratulate one of our members for a big win. This comes from Emmer's n It's titled I paid off my stuff.

Finally, Finally. I love that.

Finally.

I recently got approved for helock. Is that how you pronounce it?

That is how you pronounce it? HI Equity line of credit.

Thank you, so I could pay off my high interest cards and look into getting a two car garage potential is still working on that last one. Without even using any money from the heelock. I managed to pay all of my cards. I know I will have some purchases to pay off like groceries, et cetera. But I finally have enough of my checking to take care of it and still have plenty left over. I'm hoping to start saving and also continue to pay down some other debt I have.

Oh my gratulation.

Congratulation Emmers. That is amazing, especially those cards like oh that credit card interest rate. I always say this, it is soul sucking, and you were like, Nope, no more, You're not taking my money, You're not taking my happiness. I mean, obviously, credit cards can never like no one else can ever take your happiness. You have control over that yourself, talk about it with your therapist. But all of that to say, congratulations, I'm so excited for you. I know that it's just like a weight lifted off of your shoulders.

Thanks again everyone for being here with us. If you want to check out our membership and get to hang out with cool people like emmers and who's paying paying off these credit cards and where we have all these courses and interviews and challenges and so much more. It's fun, because it's not Frugal Friends. If it's not fun, head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash club.

Check it out. See if it's right for you.

Yes, and we'll see you next time. I mean I won't be back next time. But is Jen coming back next time?

Uh No, this episode is not. We didn't record an order.

Okay, okay, well, bye bye.

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

Oh okay, well, it says five nineteen and then it says five me you're also oh is five sixteen, so you are on future episodes. I am Oh, okay, I thought, I don't know.

If you're.

Oh, this is episode I'm sorry, you're right, this is the last episode you're on. So she comes back after this.

And then we have another stand in co host. Oh really, she comes back?

I know. Okay, So who those are already recorded? Chloe, Okay, here's your secret.

I'm the first one revealing salacious secrets to our listeners right now.

Oh wait, they're here.

Oh yeah, we're gonna this is the after after show for the true die fans who stay tuned after the music.

You think it's all over, but it's not.

It's not.

Okay, So I'm first, and then Chloe, and then.

J Jin comes back to be with us.

She's gonna love it.

She's gonna be listed so much. I know.

I did text her the other day. I needed something from her. I'm I'm so sorry.

Hold on, she just had a baby's caring for a toddler, and you're like, can you do something for me please? I know you're a little busy, you're kind of like being a cow right now to a whole human being, But if you could just like bake me a dozen cookies because I need that, that would be helpful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was. I was asking her labor.

No, it wasn't.

She gave me full permission, and I can't I can't reveal all of the reasons, but rest assured it was a very reasonable reason, okay, and she wanted me to contact her when this reasonable reason came up. I mean, I think I still said, I I am sorry to bother you, but I need you to.

Look at X y Z.

And her response was where I thought it was gonna be what you were describing. Instead, she says, this is so amazing. I haven't been needed by anyone over the age of four in six weeks.

Good, good, good, it is. It is there's something different about like, I mean shout out to stay at home moms, like I love it. I actually wanted to do it, but couldn't financially afford it. But it's there's something about being needed by an adult and not even needed as an adult. But I almost like collaborating on a like as a team with someone other than your partner or your spouse. It's just fun.

It's just allows it is.

Yeah, and it's and it's just a different type of purposeful And because especially because being a mom can be so draining. When you have a purpose, you know something else, it's like, oh okay, Like it gives you your brain a moment to turn off from that other part.

Yes, I get it.

Different avenues, different outlets for life and expression of self. And if it's only expression of self with little ones, then yeah, there can feel like an aspect of you missing.

That's why it's always good for people to have hobbies. What is a hobby of yours?

Do you have a hobby? Work?

Hobby?

Gardening?

I think I would put under that category. I really enjoy being outdoors, digging in the dirt.

What about you.

I have gotten into embroidery like a grandma.

Yes, are you hanging it on your walls?

So I am?

You want to see one? Yes, please, I am hanging it on my walls somewhat, but I'm giving it.

That's adorable, isn't it.

So I don't have enough space in my home to hang all of these, so I've started giving them away. Yeah, so I do this. It keeps me off of my phone. I have ADHD, so it gives my hands something to do in the evening. My hat, my husband and I we put our kiss of bed and we watch one show together, or watch like one hour of TV together. And instead of me scrolling on my phone because my hands the movement, I'm embroidering. And then I'm my goal. I was actually talking with Jen and Caroline and I said, what do I do with all this stuff? They said, will take one? Like you should make them for friends. So I'm going to start sending them out to friends and family. So I gave son to my grandma. I gave one to my mom, and I just said, do you want me to make you one?

I would not turn that down. That's adorable, lesson. I can still make it in the podcast. It's like an embroidered plant mac or may thing. It's beautiful.

It's really cute and bases kind of like it's like a light pink, very light pink. So anyway, this is my favorite one I've done. I'm almost just like, let me just get a whole bunch of these because people like this one, and I'll just send them out to people. But then I am also nervous because I don't want to be like, here's how to decorate your home.

You know what I mean?

This belongs Hang this up you have to do it because your home is ugly. I need to make it cuter. Like I'm like, where's the balance, Like I don't I just have something. I just have something I think you'd like and I don't have a space for it. But I put love and hard work into it.

I love but get a hobby. Okay, bye, you like it? It's pretty, huh.

I love it.

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