How To Get STACKED with Money - EP 200! w/ Joe Saul-Sehy & Emily Guy Birken

Published Feb 18, 2022, 8:00 AM

Ever found yourself sticking to old, boring finance guides that have been possibly passed down from four generations? We feel 'ya. For our 200th episode, we're joined by Joe Saul-Sehy and Emily Guy Birken, the authors of STACKED and they are here to show us how personal finance can be fun, and share some tips for staying motivated on the debt-payoff and savings building journey. 
 
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Episode two hundred Baby, how to Get Stacked with Money. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, rights, and liver your life. Here your host Jen and Jill. Welcome to the two hundred episode of the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen for the two d time, my name is Jill, and we are so excited not just to be celebrating two hundred, over two hundred hours with all of you, but also having on some guests that we regard as our podcast and personal finance mentors that really made Frugal Friends what it is to day, and so we have a super fun, refreshing episode for you to celebrate this two hundred show. This really is a celebration and so glad to be here with all of you and to share this with the people from Stacking Benjamin's and talk about how do we keep momentum. This is It's a good one. We're so thrilled to be here. I'm just like beyond excited. So I can't even find my words because we made it two hundred yes, oh my gosh. But first before we get into the fun, we must droll on with our sponsors, but our sponsors are fun too. You know that. First is the Modern Frugal Living e book. You may have heard us talking about it in the past several weeks. Jill and I have published an e book with over two hundred ways to save money that includes checklists and resources so you can take action on the highest impact strategies quickly. The first way you can save money is by getting the book for free. So to get your free copy, head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com, slash e book and you'll also get two weeks of accountability emails to help you take action on the book. It's a pretty short book, so I had to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash e book and start getting those quick winds that will snowball your momentum to financial freedom. Also brought to you by brick Houses, Strong, sturdy, reliable, pleasing to the eye, mighty mighty, letting it all hang out. Brick Houses across the nation and around the globe have clamored to sponsor our two hundred episode two hundred nearly one hour long episodes stacking on top of one another to build a strong, sturdy, reliable, mighty mighty support your financial journey brick houses. It's nothing wrong here. We got what you need. Probably a small I would estimate two bricks would be a small house. What would you estimate, Jill. We talked about estimating later in this episode. I a short story, went to a pool at one point with my brother spotted this really beautiful, stunning girl, my brother's single. I was like, I'll help you talk to her. Uh. Then was just describing the situation the other day to a friend and I described this girl and like she was just a brick house. And they're like, what do you mean by that? Like they thought, like was she really was she like strong, like a like kind of like big strong girl. Was like, no, like a brick house, Like there was nothing wrong, nothing wrong here. Brick house, you know, is a brick house. So she let it all out, like like brick houses, you can't find anything wrong with them. They're just it's a brick house. They're like, now I get it. Yeah, that's that's that's how I utilized the term bricks beautiful lifting. So this is going to be a really fun episode. We have Joe sulci Hi from Stacking Benjamin's, which long time listeners of the show will know that we definitely modeled our show after Stacking Benjamin's, but made it completely our own. And Joe has been a mentor of mine over the last four years, and I have been on Stacking Benament several times, but to have him on our show feels like a full circle. It's a great pleasure and honor to have him. And Emily guy Berkin has written several books um including and Financial Stress Now and the Last five Years Before or You Retire, And she is a financial journalist who is she's a gifted writer and personal finance experts. So these people know what they're talking about and are also so fun. They are just fun people to be around, and you don't always get that in personal finance media. It's not I wouldn't say Jill doesn't go to the financial media conference because she doesn't believe that it's a great party, and I beg to differ, but also my standards for parties might be lower, But so it is. I can understand how you would think it's not easiest. It's not exactly it, but perspective. So to find like to find two people that are just a joy to be around, so fun to talk about. Really the mindset behind personal finance and going through long goal journeys. So if you are into that, we have a few other episodes that you can queue up to play. Episode fifty five staying motivated while paying off debt, that's a good one, or episode one thirty nine money mindset shifts that we all need to make. Those two are going to follow up to this one very nicely, beautiful. Let's get into it with Emily and Joe. Emily and Joe, Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. We're super, super super excited that you are here. Thank you. I can't believe we're here. This there is there are a few moments in life. That was when I got married, are twins were born, But then the big one was we made the Frugal Friends podcast and and people know, people will know there there may not be a Frugal Friends podcast without the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. That makes me feel good. But that is a lie. That is a lie. That's very nice, but at least to the extent that it is today, because you're the only personal finance podcast that I listened to when we started this show, so there is a bit of truth to it. She's truly not flattering here. But when I knew Jen before I was in the Personal Finance space, all I heard was stacking Benjamin's this, stacking Benjamin's that. And when we talked about our show, She's like, well, here's how stacking Benjamin's does. This is the way I've learning. No, no, no, it was a good thing. She's she's a true fan. So how better than to celebrate our two hundredth episode by having you all on thank you, thank you, tell you this is our two hundred I would have warned the party with you, Emily. We didn't wear our party and I've got I've got you know, the two thousand and one glasses from way back when I could cut the one off. Now my toddler broke my party hat. But we're still celebrating with our coffee, which may or may not be spiked. I'm not gonna ask anybody it is episode two hundred, but we're gonna we're gonna just do something fun today because your book is like Personal Finance one oh one, but like one oh fun and I'm I hope that's that's the first fun that is Well, that's why why didn't we get that for the cover? Why didn't outline. Yeah, I wrote it down. Well, that's how important it was because he hates puns and like I love the grown, I love the or even like salt in the wound. Yeah, I'm so glad that that could happen for you. So that's I mean, for go friends is fun. Stacking Benjamin's stacked, it's fun. So we're just talking about how essentially we can do personal finance, but like make it fun. And that's ah, that's what we're going into today. And there's literally no other people better to do this. And I know, Joe, I've talked a lot about you and stacking Benjamin's. But I will say, like Emily, I met you at finn Con like maybe in two thousand seventeen, and it was on a bus. We were going to a dinner and you were you were like you talked to me as a person, and to that meant so much to me to be on a bus and have a human being like just talked to me colloquially. I've had people talk to me on buses before. What I did want them to talk to that's usually before they fall asleep on your shoulder, you know, and drool sweaters, right, before I fell asleep Monday, So I really appreciated that. So yeah, I'm I'm so happy to have you guys. So I love the name of the book Stacked. And so my first question for you guys is why make personal finance fun? What's the point? It's actually something very serious because when you think about your show, we think about all the personal finance shows out there, all of the YouTube videos, all the blogs. There's still so many people, is as genuine Jill know that we're leaving behind. There's just so many people. And it's frustrating because you know, when you hear popular media, they always say, well, there's not enough information out there. Are you kidding me? There is so much information out there, and there's so many brilliant creators, and there's still are so many people that that don't feel confident about their money. And to really put a pin on it, not to be overly dramatic, but there's this piece, uh study that was done by a group called Nonfiction, their research company, and they've done, by the way, these awesome research topics on just about everything. But they have a piece called the Secret Financial Life of Americans where they say that nearly a hundred and fifty million people report that they've cried about their money. And yet when people like the two of you or Emily and I, we get questions about money from money nerds or whatever there was, like, so what's hot, what's the what's the cool thing, what's the new thing? Or even people that don't know money, they think that's what they're supposed to ask. And I don't know about you, but I don't think people are crying about the fact that backdoor roth iras might go away right there. They're not crying about the fact that that central bank digital currency might be a bigger thing in our lives than crypto. Like that's the hot new stuff going on right now. Nobody's crying about that. So I think we need to make it as fun as we can so that people that aren't attracted to the space normally are attracted these discussions that we need to have, you know, they find the front door warm and inviting. Yeah. My my most recent book prior to Stacked Um was thing called and Financial Stress Now, and that was a labor of love. It was something that I had been wanting to write for like ten years. UM. It was very much about my mindset about money and trying to help people to kind of calm down about their their own concerns about money, because you know, it's very hard to make good decisions when you're feeling overwhelmed and panicked. Uh. No one has ever said about a decision I'm so glad I made that when I was in a panic and in a rush, and she like completely overwhelmed with emotions. So, UM, I have a friend who when that book came out, she bought it to support me, but she told me privately, she's like, I'm afraid to read this, because she was saying that she was really concerned that she was so far behind that the book was gonna make her feel worse. And um, you know, I reassured her, no, no, no no, no, that is not at all where I'm coming from. But it made me realize that there's this opportunity here because even a book that I wrote to be reassuring, that I wrote from the point of view of like I can help you lower your financial stress, people are going to be turned off by because the the their only knowledge of financial media is shame. Shame, shame. You know, you're to blame because of avocado toasts and lattes and if you started ten years ago, you'd be fine, and so now you're you're sunk. And so having a book that starts from the point of view of we're gonna be playful about this. We're gonna make jokes, we're going to share our own mistakes. We're gonna make it clear that you know, there's many paths to get to where you need to go, and you can enjoy yourself while you do it. That's going to help people kind of lower their their defenses against um, you know, learning about this stuff, because we're making it clear that it doesn't have to be this terrifying process. And it suddenly was talking. I was thinking too that I think we kind of did this to ourselves. I mean, not the four of us here, but just collectively the financial media. I mean, when you look at the big names in financial media, Susie Orman and Dave Ramsey, how do we approach these topics. We call in to this guru who's phenomenal, and they tell you what you're doing wrong. Right, that's what people expect from the financial place, like, oh, you're some kind of and and and I know there's people that you guys have gotten the same response, because because Jen, you and I have talked about this before that we've gotten you know, you play around too much. You're not giving me the quick answer, you're not judging me about my money. And so I feel like in some ways the expectations been set by the big names that that's what financial education needs to be, and it's not at all true. Well, even amongst finance advisors, I think there's a lot of shame. I mean, you have to almost set yourself as an expert. This is complicated to understand you have to come to me to manage your money, even if some of it could be done on our own. It just feels so untouchable. And so even for job security and job protection of the financial space, I think that there's this perpetuation of, yeah, this is complicated, you do need to pay someone and go to the expert. And so I love how you're describing just lowering that barrier to entry. And it could be that we seek out experts, we need that at various points in time, But how can we also as the average person, stretch our muscles a little bit more, gain a knowledge, a working knowledge and understanding of some of the things that we can do not that it's all unattainable for us, and fun is a big part of that, in the decrease of shame, the increase of it you can do this, and giving people even just the tools for problem solving and researching themselves. I love that this is entering into the personal finance space and it's what you're describing. It feels like a breath of fresh air, and I hope it does too for our listeners who are hearing not just Jen and I saying this, but you all from you know, Stacking Benjamin and talking about this. So thank you. I feel like I want to offer gratitude that this is where we're moving into. But that being said, I am curious what is the story behind the stacked mindset? How can how can we get one? What is it? What's the story? How can I get How can I get that? Well, first, I want to give a little shout out to my sister. I was asking her for a little help with something formatting on my website about Stacked and so you know, she's very good with design and things like that, and we're going through that and at the end of the call, she's like, you do know Stacked also means big boobs, right, yeah, honey, that's that's that's why we chose couple. Yes, she's just looking out, she's just going to make sure. So. Um. In any case, the stacked mindset, I think for both of both me and Joe is not taking ourselves so seriously. So and now I want to make it clear that that's about the issues of money can be very serious, like they can be life and death. They can be like you know, rent or or groceries like those questions, and that is not something that we ever want to poke fun at. But coming at the issues of money with this sense of like I can make mistakes and I can find my humor in those mistakes, that is very freeing. So that if you make a mistake where you're in a position where you're like, I am not sure how I'm going to pay for this, that can be very overwhelming. But if you kind of turn it around and say like, instead of it being like everything sucks and I'm bad at this, you can be like, wow, I really stepped in it. That's pretty funny, you know, like there's there's something hilarious about the fact that, um, you know, I knew better and I did this anyway, or you know, just like stand outside looking in like, wow, that's kind of funny that this person made this decision. And so I tell the story of my biggest money mistake. Uh. And oddly enough, the money part of it I had fought through. It's the permanent part that I had not. I got a tattoo when I was twenty to three years old and because my grandmother passed away and I was very sad about that, and so I wanted a tear drop tattoo to to remind myself to save my tears for things that mattered, like my grandmother dying. Because I had just recently broken up with a guy who was not worthy of me, and I wasted time crying over him, and then realized that that was a waste of my tears, and so I spent a hundred fifty dollars on a tattoo that I couldn't really afford, and like, immediately after, I was like why did I do that? And so I am being able to laugh at myself and laugh at the situation, which, uh, it gets worse. Um, you know, I have permanent body mofocation, but it's much more horrifying because several months later, I learned that among gang members, a tear drop tattoo represents a person you've murdered. So my tattoo indicated that I whacked my grandma. It's ridiculous, Like this is objectively funny, and I felt I felt very a great deal of shame about this for a long time and getting to the point where I could laugh about this and and like, look at this, this objectively funny thing that I did because I didn't think it through, and uh, and why I did it, and how money was a part of why I did it, because part of my money scripts are that it's important to show your love by sacrificing something that that's something that I feel, and so like, because I had to take money from my grocery budget to be able to pay for this. So I was sacrificing my grocery budget to show how much I loved my grandmother, even though she would have been horrified at the idea of tattoo tattoo, horrified at the idea of you whacking. And so that's that's one of those things where like, you know, being able to laugh at yourself is just an integral part of being stacked well and I love that idea because of the fact, like you know, in this project, a lot of a lot of it was written much better in the revisions. And if you think about life, it's not your first time trying to do something where you succeed, it's the third, fourth, fifth time. And if you're able to laugh at those first attempts, that gives you the courage to go try it again, which leads me to the other piece of this I think is important, and it's really where we start our journey in the book is on. It isn't about the money. It's about organizing your life around things that you value. Like we hear about diversify your investments or have a budget or stay out of debt. It's not about any of that. It's about what do I most want and then how do I work everything so that I get those things that I eliminate the stuff that I don't want. So we start off with this very simple idea of timelining your goals. Put your goals out not not like a list, but much more like a vision board, where you put them up on a vision board, but against each other, and then you find out what they all cost, and then you'll have these wonderful internal discussions or discussions with people you're planning with about which ones of these are more important than the other. Is you know, if I've got kids that I want to put through college and I have retirement at x age, and I can't get them both when I want them, which one is more important? Maybe maybe junior only pay fift of college? Or have we even talked about the r O I and our family, Like why are we just buying into this cultural thing that college is given in our family? Which which is it? I mean, I'm not putting judgment on it either way. I'm just saying I love the fact that you can have these values based discussions first about what's important to you and then work the money around that. I think it's less about having more money and more about having more life. Yeah, that is When we think of stacked, we definitely think of either like bosoms or money, And I think being stacked with like things that you love in life is kind of like what we're trying to get across in this show is the most important things in life cannot be bought, So how do we like organize and stack our finances to be able to get those things? And sometimes those things can't even be bought, you know, you can't even support yourself with money. They have to you have to use time or relationships or something. But focusing on the values based priorities first, and then also rewrite being those quote unquote values that we think we have that are actually these like negative like money scripts and like just like doing the hard work of diving into these things that we've always believed are true and being open to being challenged that they may not be. Like I love that, and think about how how deep that is, jen Like how deep some of these conversations, these inner inner thoughts get and these are things people try to avoid, which is why, to Emily's point, you need the humor because if you don't have the humor, you're gonna go I don't have time for this discussion today, Like this is way too flipp and heavy. But but if you're like, yeah, hey, guess what I want grandma yesterday, Let's see if you can do better today, like you're you're gonna come at it from a much better angle. I appreciate the the pairing that you're describing here of the mindset Emily and Joe. Some of the tangibles like you guys both built upon the other. That not taking yourself to you seriously, and then having tangible tools like putting a timeline to your goals, that both are necessary to come together. I'm curious for both of you in your own selves and then in what you've helped others to do. If someone is finding themselves in that very serious place, how can they not take themselves so seriously? How could they find the humor in it? With that internal narrative that's happening. One of the things for me, it's really helpful to kind of step outside of yourself and look at yourself as you would a friend, and so often that leads to more sympathy and empathy and so like that. That's really helpful when you like even talking to yourself in the third person and just be like, you know, like, oh my goodness, I did that, and it's it's I'm so stupid, blah blah blah. Then think about how you would talk to your your sister, your your best friend and say, like Emily, you made a mistake because you're human, And then from there, like I actually I will sometimes think about like how will I tell this story to friends? Like what will I highlight as the humorous parts, like how would other people see this story, you know, if they didn't know me, uh And being able to do that and kind of that removes the emotional response of shame because you are focusing on the parts that can be potentially funny. That could be you know, something that you can find sympathy for, that you would be very sympathetic to if someone you loved we're going through that, and that can be really important to get into the place where you can think a little more rationally about how to solve the problem instead of just beating yourself up and then reacting instead of being proactive. I gotta admit um, but there were times when I when I really struggled to find the humor. You know, in the mid nineties, my my financial situation was just horrible, and there were there was a day when I was on my way home from in a point and way across Detroit from my house. I had young twins and um my spouse was still in school, and uh so I was the breadwinner and I was very much failing, and I ran out of gas and I realized that I had tapped every relative, every line of credit for money. I had no recourse, and I'm scrounging in my seats to find cash so that I could walk. This sounds like an old guy type. So I walked up hill and driving blizzard. No, but I did, but but to walk almost a mile to a marathon station so that I could give this dude eight five like grimy scents from underneath the seats of my rusty minivan. And uh, he didn't. He didn't want to give me. And I did laugh about this. I cried about my money that night. This is my lowest point. I cried about my money. But but at the time I laughed because the dude at the gas station did not want to give me the plastic gas can so that I could fill up my gas tank because he didn't think I was gonna bring it back. And I had this laugh, like are you like someday this is gonna be a phenomenal story because this sucks so bad, Like I can't be trusted with money at all. And I realized that day that I needed to stop looking at the You know, I think a lot of people now are looking at like n f T S or crypto, not in the way that we should like this blockchain stuff is pretty cool and could be great advancements technology wise, but I think we look at it like it's a flipping lottery. Like I heard this story a couple of days ago about these people that were getting evicted from their house, so they sold a few n f T s and they evaded eviction and ended up with a lot of money. And I think we hear that story and it sends the wrong message. It's a message I had before that day, which was, you know, I gotta start surrounding myself with better people. I gotta focus on building a foundation. I gotta do some of this boring crap that sounds just horrible and long. But what's funny is once I did that, it turned around much quicker, Like I couldn't believe it. Once I finally you know, the three pigs build your house out of bricks. Once I did that, man, it got better so much faster. Yeah. Then mindset shift, not viewing failure as the worst thing that could happen, but choosing to move through it and finding some lighthearted pieces in the midst of it. Wow. Yeah, And it is those boring parts that are the foundation, that are the things that move the needle. But it is those those are the things that are hardest to do. It's very easy to download robin Hood and invest in some crypto, but it's hard to do the boring things. So that's kind of where I think most of our listeners are at. They are they are at their like, I know, I know what I need to do, I think, but I'm just like in this boring like place. So like, what what would you recommend to them? Like if you are kind of starting out, but like you've been doing it for a smidge, how do you get over that like feeling of the boring nous and like keep pushing through. Yeah. Um, one of the things I really appreciate about James Clear, who is the productivity guy. Um, you're at atomic habits, he says, Uh, you know, you need to fall in love with the boredom. And so that's something that I actually have found that I'm very good at at certain things. Uh. So I really really like tracking my spending. Um, I don't know why. For whatever reason, I am wired weird, and so I like doing that. But I like it even better when I have a spreadsheet that's in rainbow colors. And so my husband is not into the boring. But we when we were first married, we were trying to pay off yet a home equity line of credits from when he bought his house, and so we lived on his income and use mind to pay off the haylock and uh, we put together a savings thermometer and put it on the on the kitchen wall. And so we would actually, because this is long enough ago that you actually got the statement in the mail, we would like write home to be the first one to open the statement so that we can color in the next little bit. And like he fell in love with the boredom, like because he really was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can we can cross off another you know, however many thousand dollars and and so those are the sorts of things like find what motivates you and pair it with the boring stuff, and that is what's going to really move the needle, because you know, whatever it is that motivates you will help help you keep coming until you get to the point where it's actually making a difference. And you you've got the intrinsic motivation of like, yeah, this is actually making a difference, and and like things are happening and it's exciting. So that and that's that can be hard to do if you don't know what's going to motivate you. But that's you know, experimenting, finding humor, doing artwork. You know. One of the things I love about bullet journaling is it allows for a lot of creativity in this kind of falling in love with the boring aspect. Cheryl and I did did this is how we found our fun, which is we we turned the boring thing of talking about our money, which for us have been fighting about our money, into a fun weekly meeting. And the rule was that had to be fun first it could only be twenty minutes, so we set a timer at twenty minutes. All we do is go through to Emily's point, we go through our expenses from the week before, the expenses that we had automatically tracked through our app and then talk about how we're going to spend money the next week. And it was done. And by the way, we were required to have either wine or pancakes with the meeting, depending on what time of day it was, so it had to be one of the other. But at twenty minutes we were done. And the cool thing about that this meeting is when we have the meeting, which we still have because we keep it, we've kept it fun and we've kept it short. We have these great organic conversations the rest of the week that we wouldn't have had if we didn't have that quick twenty minute meeting. If we don't have the twenty minute meeting, we don't have those conversation stations, and then it leads to money disagreements. So the bigger conversations aren't in that meeting. They're actually when we're doing other stuff and they kind of stem from that time. And so this little fun thing once again gets to the depth that we really need to have. It's such a good ritual because twenty minutes isn't a lot, especially if you're only going to do that once a year, but if you're doing it regularly, it does start to stretch that muscle of Okay, we're gonna be able to cover what we need because we're doing it so regularly. We've ritualized it, we've gamified it, we made it enjoyable. Was there ever a time when you didn't get through everything but you still just stopped because twenty minutes was out most weeks, most of the time. Yes, No, seriously, most of the time we're like, we're done. But but the goal is to keep it fun. And I feel like, you know it's I know it's the money nerd in the family that listens to frugal friends. And I'll tell you the worst thing to do is to drag somebody to the table if you want to, if you want to piss off your spouse or your friend or your accountability partner, drag them to the table and make them sit through this hour long meeting that you love and they hate. Right, Don't don't do that. So no, don't drag them, lure them exactly pancakes, panae like punks. I think what we're talking about is relevant for any aspect of life, especially if it's something long and requires a bit of a grind. That we hit these points where we might pull back a little bit, something else hijacks whatever it is that we were working towards, and then how do we get back into it. We're just experiencing this right now with renovations. We are in a home renov We are a year and a half in the home renovations, and we've got potentially another two years ahead of us. So we've gone in and thanks, that's helpful. Yeah, we've gone in and out, and we just had saying what we're all feeling. I know, we just had friends and we've we've gone We were really sick for a couple of weeks, so obviously that decreased star ability to go hard at Reynauld's. And then we had friends come in town and they just helped us do a little bit. It wasn't much, maybe four hours of pulling dry wall off the wall. And now my husband and are like, all right, we're ready get ramped up for this weekend. But I think that's it's what we're talking about here though, of realizing as we go what are the motivators? And so this I'm going to keep as a nugget in my head. A friend coming in who can help us for even a few hours helps to motivate us, and that might be even for finances. Is there somebody that I can invite into this conversation that would make it more enjoyable for me? And then to keep track of those things along the way what motivated me last time when I found myself in this kind of stuck place. So I love the ideas the really tangible the bullet Journal. Emily too. It's so awesome. The thing I got out of that though, Jill was I'm not coming over at least lovely house. She has a lovely house. It's just there. Yeah, it's it's great still, even though the kitchen is a dumpster fire, it's the rest of the houses and our listeners are probably so tired of hearing me describe my kitchen as a dumpster fire. But hey, hopefully it creates permission to live in a bit of a dumpster fire for some time. Yeah, as you cash flow renovation not the fun version of fire, but it's what we've got for sure. Yeah, I um, yeah, I love. I love this conversation because it's it's not the sexy conversation that people It doesn't like boost you your s e O in Google, Like, people are not searching for how do I sustain a long term financial goal like retiring early or paying off debt. They're not searching for how to sustain it. They're asking what's the best budgeting app? How can I budget better? Can I see other people's budgets so I can compare myself to them? And they're asking these questions that are. You know, they hopeful at first, but like eventually they do not help any longer. And so Emily, I loved what you said about intrinsic motivation, because that's what fun really does. If you can make something fun or entertaining, you will have the intrinsic motivation to keep going back to it. So it's boring, it's not the most comfortable, it's not ideal, but if you can find if you can embrace the boredom, I don't what was that, James Clear fall in love with fall in love with the boring find ways. It's not forever to some extent. Personal finance is forever, but short personal goals, even if they take multiple years in the gram scheme of things, are actually like really short. Um So I love I love all of that. There was a time several years ago where I was haveing a really terrible day I don't remember what it was. Called my sister of you know stack means big booms, fame, uh and uh, and was like, I just feel like I'm out of control, I don't know what I'm doing. And I was telling her all that and she's like, all right, I want you get all the phone and I want you to go balance your check books. That always makes you feel better. And that's my reading partner is right there. So you know, at some point, you know, once you get to this point where where where you fall in love with the boring and this becomes part of your your everyday routine and you feel satisfaction from it. You too can be advised by your sister on a bad day to go balance your checkbook and I don't. I don't know if we go, but but maybe something. But but Emily does this great gamification stuff. She's got in the book Budget Tetris that she did and uh, you know, because your budgets like a Tetris thing and there's these blocks falling, so how do we fit all the blocks in there? So she's the gamification queen. Yeah, I was an only child and I loved Tetris, so I loved that reference. That's how I spent my afternoons. And we've all experienced what chaos feels like. And so maybe boring is an addainable thing. Like you give me some boring, I'd love that. That'd be excellent. No, no hidden things around the corner. Something I tell people is um people don't want to think about money, and so it's like, okay, you can do that, you cannot think about your money. Um, what that means is what the exchange is that you're going to have fires you have to put out and they're very stressful. So is it more stressful to you know, have the boring and do the weekly stuff that you really hate doing. Or is it more stressful to not think about it and have to deal with emergencies as they crop up? Uh? And you know what if if the second is what you'd prefer, try it? You know, Um, I think most human beings eventually get to the point where like, I can't do this anymore. I'd rather do the boring. But you know, recognizing that that is a trade off, and that by embracing the boring, what you're doing is erasing the fires, the financial emergencies that are so stressful and cause you so much heartache. And that can be a good motivator until it becomes more intrinsic. Well said, it's like when you have an emergency fund, you no longer have emergency exactly. That's you know, stuff like that. Two hundred episodes in folks here we got finally understand finally understand. Alright, So I talked about the person who is stuck and they're doing the boring. Let's speak for a minute to the people who are new to money management, what, from your perspectives, is the first thing that they should do. I think it's that that idea of timelining your goals, like begin with the end of mind, because it solves so many things. And the reason is most of us start with the sexiness of investing, right, I mean, that's what I did. I remember I called the stockbroker. I had no idea what a stockbroker was in college. I called the stockbroker and I told him and he's like, you know, I wanted to invest up that I had some money, had like a thousand dollars. He's like, so, what's the deal. And I said, hey, I've got, you know, huge student loans. I've got a little bit of credit card debt. I was just beginning my credit card debt journey. I had all of these financial problems. And he told me, he's like, don't don't invest yet. You need to put some money in an emergency fund, like you need to get that debt paid off and then call me later and uh. And that was that was great advice, But I think we all start there with Hey, I get fear missing out from all this different stuff. So if I think about when my goals are and how the best achieve them, then I'm gonna come backwards to Okay, but oh, I'd invest in that meets those goals, and that gets rid of a lot of this this idea that I got to invest in everything and I got to know everything about everything. Now if I start with the end of mine, I have to know very little. I only got to know about the things that meet that goal. So if I begin with that goal, it makes my research easier. It makes the research more fun because it's just in time, and I'm going to use the research versus this panicky situation people get themselves into of, I just don't know so much stuff. There's so much that we don't know, but you don't have to thank you. So I have felt that a lot lately, that there are a lot of things in personal finance that I don't know, and it makes me feel like a little shameful. But then I'm like, I don't need to know everything because I know my goals and my values and I've worked backwards and I'm doing everything I need to do to get to them. So there's a ton of things I don't need to know, and that's great. And the cool thing there, Jen is it can still be a good investment, right, it just isn't for you. So I think we judge through this lens of is it a good investment or not, which I think is a false Lens's it be does it fit or not? So I can say confidently that that probably is a good investment, But I've got no goal that meets that timeline. I've got nowhere in my portfolio that that is good for me. Do you know what is a really good investment and takes no understanding whatsoever that I have full understanding of. That's right, It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week of watching your faces like I don't what's happening. I love it. In the outline, it's at this the highlight of my month when I get to see people who have never experienced us at them just let loose. I was, I was about to run. Thanks for saying I'm glad you I'm glad we're here. You've got some good bills for us. Yeah, So if you are unfamiliar with our show, every week we have a listener or our guests share with us their favorite bill for the week or month or since the last time we've seen them. And uh and yeah, well, uh, Emily, do you have a bill for us? Uh? So, I immediately when you asked me my favorite bill, I was thinking of my friend Bill, who when he was feeling a little overwhelmed with like the way the world was going, and had this very serious conversation with with us, saying like, I think there's like a one in three chance that we just don't survive at all, and like we were like trying to calm them down and all of that. Then leader in the conversation about forty five minutes or an hour later, he said something like I've never been that good at enough. So when that pointed out, like, oh, and so you calculate we have only a one three chance of surviving all that's going on in the world, what what do you think he really thought like or it was it was really just one of those where he was just kind of catastrophizing and like added to this. And I'm not going to say his last name because I don't want him to feel called out. He's an economist, so um oh no, so which is is? I mean it's more about, like, being an economist is not necessarily about like, you know, mathematics. It's it's more about understanding you know, asset allocation of scarce resources and things like that. Um, and you know he understands stuff that goes over my head. But see the like we had a lot of fun being like so one free chance. But you're not that great at math? Alrighty then, oh poor Bill, Bill, you know what I do can be an economist and not be good at math, if that is a dream of yours. I feel I feel a connection with Bill. And maybe it's that my name is Jill. Maybe it's because it's not too far off. I am not good at estimations, and my husband gives me such a hard time in anything. Estimating yeah, how many alligators there were in the Everglades yesterday, Estimating how much money we're going to have to pay to X Y Z estimating the length of the of the doorway. I'm just I'm not I'm not good at it. I still do it, though, don't. It will not stop me. And Bill, if you're listening, keep going, because somebody out there needs the motivation of thirty three survived. Yeah and yeah, you keep believing that living your room. You know, let others correct you and find the radical middle together. Bill, I see you. If you if you asked me to tell you how many alligators there were, estimate, I would say something like I'd look at them seriously and say, I think it's four. Yeah, I think there's four. And there's this the same one. Probably four alligators in my backyard right now. And I live in the city. But how do you know that they got to move around? You have living dinosaurs just wandering around the place. Well, there are surely there are probably four alligators in your backyard, you know. Well, Hey, I'm not the one to ask. All right, Joe, you got for us? Bring us back? Can I pay? Can I play a clip of mine? Can I do that? Can I? This is? This is this is my favorite Bill, and my spouse Sheryl will tell you I have a total man crush on this dude. And she and she laughs every time this guy comes on stage or on screen. She's like, look, look, look who's here, Joe. I can hear your heart pounding. This is stacked. Yes, this is this is my Bill right here, like corned Beef, I make my own. He's a Crystal Flowers said, yes you Flower, give it up for And this is his real name, gayheart much what he's look also he mean it? And then you get Bill Hayter dancing, You got Bill Hayter playing the flute. You get Bill hat sound. Yeah, that dudes a genius, just a comedic genius. I just you hate Bills though. My favorite Bill is building Hater. Oh, layer on, layer on, layer Wow, those were good times on Saturday Night Live, Like those were That was a that was a golden time. So my favorite Bill Hater moments though, is when he loses it, you know, like Jimmy Fallon always loses it and just can't keep going with the skit and he's having so much fun getting into it, and then there's times and you think he will lose it and he doesn't. He keeps bringing it. But if you've been seen what's the one where he's the where he's the it's the Showtime or HBO series. I only was able to watch a couple episodes on a plane, Barry, but he's brilliant, and Barry, I love that both of you brought Bill like perseus. People who are bills love that people. We don't often get those, and they are my favorite. When there's a person, they are my favorite too. Everyone knows my favorite is Bill Curtis, and so few people have other bills. I did not know that. I didn't know it was Bill Curtis at all. Jen I didn't. Don't get her started. She's gonna go for minutes now about wait, wait, don't tell me Bill Curtis. Anchorman would be a stereotype if I said my favorite Bill was hundred dollar Bill with a name like Stacking Benjament's, like, you can't like that would be you. But with a show like Stacking Benjamin's, you'd never have that. You can't do it. It would always be something obscart. Hater should have been more obscure. Yeah wow, Well, if you're listening to this and you want to tell us more about people named Bill, whether they know how to estimate or not if they're comedians. If it has nothing to do with people and just bills you you you know it. You don't have to understand this that much. Anyone ever asked, ever said a certain type of duck bill. Absolutely, yes, you've got done. Elizabeth Color tempts. Yeah, every time, actually multiple times, multiple times. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com, slash bill leave us your bill. We love to hear it. And now it's done for round lightning round. So today on our lightning round, this one's a little more subtle. We don't yell at you. Um. We we want to share one way we keep money fun in our own lives currently, So, Joe, you shared a little bit about yours. I don't know if you have any other ones, but allow you and Emily to go first. Emily, uh So, one way that my husband and I kind of try to keep money fun is, uh we we talk about our We start talking about goals with our favorite travel destinations. So that's actually how I got him on the same page with me. Um financially is like we were on a car trip, a road trip, and I said, like, you know, we're like top ten vacation destinations go and so we were like going back and forth. We you know, like he'd say one, I'd say one, He'd say one. I'd say one. Uh. And so one of them was he he wants to go to, uh the twenty four hour Lamon Automotive race in France, and I was like, I am down with that. So similarly like uh several years ago again road trip. For some reason, that just brings out the conversations in us. He was saying that when he turned forty, uh, he wanted to go on a big motorcycle trip with his with his his best friends. And so it was like and so once we got out of a car, I was like, all right, let's start saving for it. So that's that's one of the ways that we keep money fun in my my family is is we talk about big things we want to do, and we we from there, like how do we get there. A way that we made money fun when my kids were growing up is I got already yelling about the utility bill because I would come home from work and every light in the house is lit up, like it's my house is like Disneyland with every light on. We had two TVs. They're both on nobody's watching anything, and I got tired of complaining about it. So we played a game where I took out some graph paper and every month when the utility bill came, we played like this limbo game of how low can you go with the utility bill? And I got the kids, who are eight at the time, in on the game, and it got so bad that I would I'd be watching a football game on TV. I would leave the room to get some water. I come back and my daughter's turned off the television. She's like, Dad, when you leave in the room, you got to turn the TV off. I'm like, I'm coming right back on him. She's like, but we're trying to win, Dad, We're trying to win. So yeah, instead of complaining about stuff. So if you can turn into a game, I love the game of fine. What about for you? Jen? I personally hosts a podcast, a fun podcast about money. I don't know it's anybody can Uh, It's it's called Whiskey Women. So it's yeah, I don't know if you've probably never heard of it. Um no that that that will be our late night podcast. Yeah, frugal friends at night will be called women, um yes, and to do Oh, I'm seeing a partnership. Yes, this this show supported this show supported by Third Love. Yeah great, um um. I would say other than that Travis and I are embarking. We like to work together, like as a team. We love making money personally, I I love I think it's a game. And so we have just started our first foray into real estate investing. So um, that is something that we're doing that It's going to make us very broke for a little while, but it's something that we can do together and work on together, and it's that's like our warped sense of what an activity is, like a fun activity and then like reap the benefits of that, like going for So yeah, and I don't think real estate investing is for everyone, but it is like something that we've been interested in for several years and just finally are taking the plunge now. So that's yeah, working together on projects is our thing investments. So Jill, I think for us, the way that we keep it fun is really centered around values based spending, the ability to identify what do we want to spend on and so where do we want to cut And so certainly I am the more favor and budget focused person between my husband and I. He's on board, but he definitely gets that, like, this isn't fun if you're telling me no. So I try and tell him yes and highlight what maybe eating at home that whole week is allowing us to do. So I'll try and highlight as much as possible, like we ate at home this whole week. Now we can go away for the weekend with friends. Now we can. So that's been and that's been fun for me too to see what is it affording me and to continually remind myself where I have sacrificed, what is it making room for? And that happens for me when I look over our budget every two weeks are spending what money came in, and so it is pretty much every two weeks. I will kind of highlight to my husband. He's not a part of that process, but I'll kind of yelled at him from the other room, like, hey, we can do that trip now. This is what we're now able to buy. It's usually something like renovation related, but that's exciting to us right now. That's cool. Yeah m hm, yes, Well, thank you guys so much for celebrating our two hundred episode with us. I know it's not like the thousand plus of stacking Benjamin's, but we are slow getting there. They're on your tail. We are on that tail man. So if people want to find more from you guys, where can they find more of your beautiful words and voices and books? You can find Stacked anywhere books are sold. UM. If you're ordering online, Amazon of course is the you know, eight hundred pun goerrilla. We also love bookshop dot org because that can help support local UM into a bookstores and if you want to, you know, step in and you know, see people in in the real world in meat space. You could also go into your local independent bookstore and buy a copy UM. And then you can find me at Emily guy Burkin dot com. That's my website and forward slash slash stack, so there's information about the book UM and about how to how to find it, and you can also reach me on Twitter, which I'm on way too much. At Emily guy Burkin is my handle. I'd cast listeners generally like audio books too. I'll tell you the audiobook was a lot of fun. You get Emily and I both and my mom, who has snippets in the book. You actually hear the woman that plays my mom on the show, our friend, uh, Julie Ray Harrison steps in his mom and she's hilarious as somebody who's really in real life, my neighbor down the street. It is hilarious to hear my friend Julie Ray playing the part of mom, which is a long story. But yeah, the audiobooks great, and we're coming around the country. Will be coming to your area, by the way, forty different cities. Uh, so we're coming to Tampa stacking Benjamin dot com slash stacked in that tour starts in March, and I think we hit Tampa. When are we at. We're gonna be We're gonna be by you, by the two of you at we look this up because it's right here. We're gonna be at Cigar City Brewing on Uh. But it'll be well, be careful because we have about two hundred thousand alligators right within like a two mile radius of Tampa. Is that your estimate, because yeah, that's that's me, Jill, you know, like very closely related to Bill. That's my estimate. Yeah, definitely. Well, if you're in the Tampa area, you can join Jill and I at Cigar City Brewing on that day, Yes, or anywhere else wherever you are. We'd love to hang out with money nerds all over the country. Yes, so they can find the tour Stacking ben Jaman dot com, y dot com slash stacked, and that's also a lot of and and Emily has it also on her website, Emily guyberkn dot com slash stacked. Love that those will all be in the show notes. Again, thank you so much for hanging out with us, guys. This has been great. That one was a pleasure for me. I am very glad that we had them on for our two hundred episode because it was I mean, you know, it's a guest episode, like who are you going to have on for your two you know? Yeah, well, this feels so full circle. Not to say we're done and see you later. It's only up from here, I think, but to have when we first started this podcast here you talk so much about stacking Benjamin's and Joe Sulcihi and some of these other names in the personal finance world. I had no idea who they were. I had very little introduction to it, but definitely they seemed like these big powerhouses within the industry, like untouchable at least from our standpoint as people thinking we're going to start out and so now to be where we're at and they're actually willing to come on our show is huge for me and always fun to watch you Jen fan girl out. That's always always as always whenever we have guests most of the time. So thank you for listening some of you for two hundred episodes. We know that so many of you. We get so many emails and Facebook messages and see the posts in the Facebook group of people even if you work with us all the way back in you've listened to every episode, You've binged the backlog, and we, I mean we are so grateful. You have allowed us to do something that we love, to refine a ski ill and passion that I didn't even know that I was going to have but now can't see my life without. And it is your support and you keeping like coming back every week that makes this possible, and so thank you from the bottom of my heart. But also you go one step further and you leave us these beautiful reviews that just like make us feel like so warm, like this one from a J three to one. It happens to be five stars. It says you guys rock. I'm a stay at home mom and homeschool my two boys. Your episodes on frugal self care, contentment, minimal living, and scheduling have helped me so much decluttering my life and allow me to have focus on what is most important to me. You give such great practical tips on how to do what I've always wanted to do. For example, I've always wanted to do a gratitude journal, but if I want to add something to my life, I realized something has to go, so I deleted social media off my phone. This has helped in my goals of contentment because I'm not comparing or bombarded with ads, and more time for journaling and connecting with friends on an individual basis. So thank you. I'm so grateful for this podcast, and we are grateful for you a j Thank you. That's so amazing and excellent, just even these small things, but what a difference it sounds like it's making in your life. So if we can even be a small part to your motivation, if you can just take one tip or tool per episode, oh we're so thrilled for that. So glad to be here for so many episodes. So thank you. Thank you. Also to those who share these episodes on social media. When you share the latest episode on Instagram, we're adding you two our monthly drawing. Here's what it is for those of you who haven't heard before. For every five tags and reviews we get each month, we're giving away fifty dollars five zero dollars for you to spend in the Frugal Friends shop. And that's just more goodies in the shop to help you on your financial journey. So please keep doing that. Yes, keep leaving us reviews wherever you listen to podcasts and sending the screenshot to reviews at Frugal Friends podcast dot com. And don't forget to tag us on social See you next week. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Syrian oh Jen Celebration. I feel like this is a big component connected to fun that's related to personal finance. But I think opportunity for us to practice it even within this podcast of celebrating the milestones as we go two hundred episodes. I know we recently celebrated and now beyond two million and downloads, and that's something that we practice. I don't know that our community always gets to see all of what the celebration looks like, but it is cool to have fun along the way in every episode and then to be able to celebrate the milestones. And I don't know, this is me letting it, letting those who have stuck around to this post show dialogue that there is so much celebration on our end, whether it's getting together for a meal, Jen and I text back and forth, gets back and forth like emojis like here's where we're at, and updates, and it's just there's so many fun pieces and this feels like a celebration to me. And especially having Yeah, Joe and Emily on today, that's a part of that celebration. Yeah. I so often gloss over milestones on my road to the next milestone, and to just take some time today to remember how significant two hundred episodes is. Most podcasts just a little podcast statistics for you. Most podcasts do not make it past ten episodes. The vast majority do not make it past ten, and two hundred has has been a joy. It's been a pleasure spending over two hundred hours with you, Jill recording and even more life. I don't even think about it that way. How much we've talked to each other and it is forged this friendship that I am so thankful for and I'm Frugal Friends has been life changing. And I have said that many times, but only in the past year have I really realized the significant blessing it is um and how rare it is to have a podcast like this and a friendship like yours, and gosh, yeah, I'm taking a moment today to let that sink in. Yeah, Jenn, I couldn't say it better. There's so many things and I can't. I'm reflecting on it with Eric and friends to uh, hey, wow, there's so many things I wouldn't have done with my finances if it weren't for this podcast. In this community, it feels like this, like we're saying a goodbye. We're not do we have reflecting on the past and so excited for the future. Yeah, we have a big announcement coming up that is going to give you even more frugal friends. So I hope you're not sick of us yet, because we are just getting started. We're going to take those two hundred episodes and multiply it, yes, and uh we are. It's funny after two hundred episodes feeling like Okay, we're just getting started, and yeah, a very excited for everyone to follow along in this journey with us. Cheers. Grateful for you, Jen, Grateful for all of you in the community. Thank you to those who have listened. It's the reason we made it to two hundred and otherwise we're just talking into microphone. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Cheers and gratitude and celebration. See you next week.

Frugal Friends Podcast

Controlling your spending is hard to do. On every episode of Frugal Friends, we'll try to help you g… 
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