DFS: Nika Paid Off $78K of Debt on a Single Income and got $133K FORGIVEN!

Published Jul 12, 2024, 7:00 AM

Sacrificing the things we love most while saving can be tough. But donโ€™t worry! We can choose to spend money on what we truly value all while meeting our financial goals! In this episode, Jen and Jill are joined by Nika to share her empowering three year debt-free journey including her mindset, hustles, as well as her motivations to finally get out of debt.

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Episode four twenty three, How Nica paid off seventy eight thousand dollars of debt and got one hundred and thirty three thousand dollars forgiven.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live at your life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and we are still in debt free summer, and today we are sharing the story of one of our good good friends. I know that we said that these are all listeners, but Nika has listened to the show, but mainly she's such a good friend and we recorded this when she became debt free, and so we would have been remiss to not include her in this series of debt free stories because her story is amazing. She is wonderful, and she helps so many people who are interested in getting their federal student loans forgiven.

Mika was the last person we interviewed when we did this series initially for YouTube. She was the very last interview so we were also particularly enthused because we had just heard all of these stories and it felt like the perfect note to wrap up the series on because we had interviewed her on the podcast before and so we were kind of tracking her progress along the way and then to be a place of celebration to hear how she finally did. It was so amazing and we're just excited to share it here again.

Yeah, and we would share the episode she was on it, but some of the information is outdated, so we would just say go to debt free, gonna be on Instagram, TikTok, wherever you get your social media, because she is always posting the most up to date stuff. And I kid you not. This morning I was checking her Instagram and lo and behold, Nika's posting a selfie with the president and.

The vice president.

Wild Like, I mean, she's just going places and she's being recognized for it as just this thought leader in student loan forgiveness. So you know, we are honored to be in her presence. But first, before we honor you with her presence, this episode is brought to you by selfies. We love a good selfie, right, I mean, maybe it's not with the president, right, Maybe it's maybe it's with our besties, Maybe it's with our friends, our family, and when we love with those selfies are in cool places too, write even though you can't really see the background because everyone's face is in there. And actually we could only get half of the person's face at the end because the person taking it their arm was too short. But we still love the idea that the selfie was in a very cool place, because where else are you going to take selfies at your house? Right? You take it in a cool place so that you can just remember that you were all there, but not actually see the place. So if you want to be able to afford to go to more cool places and take selfies there, start saving for a vacation and a vacation fund in a high yield savings account like the one offered by cit. It's got over four percent apy, so the money you put in there for your emergency fund can just sit and be making you money to go on a vacation to take very cool selfies. So seriously put your emergency fund in one of these, see how much money it's making you every month, and then use that money to go on a vacation and take really cool selfies. Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash c it.

If there's no other reason to listen to the Frugal Friends podcast. It's to listen to the first couple of minutes where we try to tie in something.

Where we with something else.

None of them was written down.

Deeply unrelated, but we will make it related.

And try to be not unhinged, try to be somewhat hinged. But like I said, Nika, she paid off about seventy eight eighty thousand dollars of consumer debt on a single income. She had over one hundred and thirty three thousand dollars in student loans forgiven through Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program PSLF. And she doesn't just talk about PSLF on her platform. She talks like about all student loan forgiveness. And she just has an amazing story about determination. And she didn't give up the things she loved most during her debt payoff, and you'll hear that in her interview. She loves baseball. She kept her season tickets like these. There is a place for values based spending while you are meeting your financial goals. And that's why we talk about it so passionately, is that we don't want you to have that debt payoff hangover after you go so hard paying off debt. We love to share these stories, specifically that where people still spent in alignment with their values. So so excited to get you to hear Nika's story.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

We are so excited to have Nika on. We have interviewed her on the podcast, now we're interviewing her on the Debt Free Stories. So Nica, welcome, Thank.

You for having me so again, Nika Anika, I am originally from Maryland, but I'm actually a Washingtonian now a reside in Washington, and I'm a single pring hole for anyone who's.

Looking and debt free.

But I started, you know, I, like many people, I've got a debt story where I made, you know, maybe one or two decisions or bad decisions with money that kind of landed.

Me in debt.

And for me, it was a lot of credit card spending and student loan debt as well as a little bit of tax debt too. And so I started my debt payoff journey in fall of twenty eighteen with about one hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars. About one hundred and thirty three thousand of that was my student loans, about fifty thousand any credit card debt and roughly five thousand dollars left on my car loan. And so to be clear though and fully transparent, this wasn't the first time I started a debt payoff journey. Like I had started and stopped a number of times and wasn't really serious, right, I would pay off debt but rack it up over there.

But finally I just got.

Really tired of never making real progress, and so I said I was going to be serious and I was going to fight for the life that I.

Wanted in twenty eighteen.

So by about summer of twenty nineteen, though, I had paid off about sixteen thousand dollars including.

My car, and I had.

Decided to come face to face because I'm like, Okay, if you're really serious, you're making progress, You've got to like face all of your debt. And that is definitely something that I recommend everyone do. Like it's hard, it can be overwhelming and intimidating, but you have to face it.

You have to get all of.

Your debt like laid out there in front of you in black and white, so you can create a plan of attack. I had outstanding tax returns to file. I had not filed for about two years, both state and federal, and I didn't file because I knew I owed. And you know, when you are not in control of your money, that's what you do. You ignore things. You kind of just hide and think it's going to go away. And so I said, you know what, if I'm going to tackle debt, my debt, I've got to take all tackle all of it. And so I hired a professional to help me with those tax returns. Let me tell you now, remember I paid sixteen thousand dollars off when.

That tax that came.

The tax bill came nearly twenty two thousand dollars twenty one thousand, nine hundred and forty six thousand and thirty five cents to be exact, and so that kind of put me back over, not kind of it put me back over my original starting debt. Fast forward to twenty twenty one, I managed to pay off the remaining outstanding tax debt and all of my credit cards, and that left my student loans one hundred and thirty three thousand, three hundred and seventy five dollars. And in twenty twenty one, also the Department of Education had announced a limited waiver, which we've talked about before. They had launched a limited waiver that would allow retro active credit for you know, payments that would have never qualified under the regular rules of PSLF.

They really did relax a lot of the rules.

And with that waiver, in my time in public service, which you know I did not mention, but I have been.

In public service for twelve years.

So with that waiver and my time in service, my loans were forgiven in December of last year, making me debt free.

Who getting a twenty two thousand dollars debt while you are paying off debt after you have paid off sixteen thousand dollars like that. That took the wind out of my life.

Yeah, and it was a gut punch too.

I can't imagine how that must have made you feel. And I've always I've loved your your tenacity and your story and respected you so much because of the perseverance. Because a you started, you didn't know how much that tax that was, you knew it was there, but you you started anyway, which I hope is an encouragement to other people who also may be scared to start, that you can take the steps and start paying off debt and warm up to becoming fully aware of what's going on. Yeah, and then you, you continued, you didn't let that set back derail you. So tell us what was the entirety of the debt outside of the student loan.

Yes, a little under eighty thousand, so it was about seventy seven ish.

And that's just what I documented.

I did a very not so good job early in my debt payoff journey of not documenting like exactly what I paid an interest.

I documented the payments, but not.

Really overall like what I had paid plus with principal and Andrews. So I usually rounded it about eighty thousand, but documented in seventy seven thousand.

So you paid off eighty thousand dollars as a single woman living in the Washington, DC area.

Wow, and then got.

One hundred and thirty plus thousand dollars forgiven through the PSLF. So let's talk about some of the nuts and bolts. I know a lot of people are going to be interested in some of the nitty gritty of how you did this as again, a single person living in a high cost of living area paying off eighty thousand dollars of debt. Can you tell us what that was? Like, how did you do it?

Absolutely? So it took me.

It took me about three years. And it was not just I mean it was me, but not me alone. I did have, you know, I did have a couple of side hustles. I was doing instacart when I first started on this debt payoff journey, and then I started working in a boutique indoor cycle studio that I would actually patronize.

I had a membership.

There and it was just like, hey, either you drop the membership or maybe you can see if you can you know, if they weren't hiring. There was nothing advertised that I just asked the owner like, hey, I can do this at your front desk that can run your social media for you, you know, which is this something that I can do in exchange for you know, pay obviously, but also having access to the studio. And so I did that for about a year as well, and then COVID happened, and so you know, we that that put us all inside and to ourselves, and so with that, I actually turned to selling my stuff online.

I was doing a.

Little bit of it before the pandemic happened, but I really leaned into Mercury and Facebook marketplace, and I sold a lot of things. I mean, I didn't sell like my furniture, Like I'm still I still want to be comfortable in my home, you know, I'm not selling every everything but the dog. But you know, I sold things that that no longer served me, honestly, And it was it was more than just getting money for things that I paid for that I probably didn't have the money for anyway, right, or probably didn't need. But it was also really liberating and freeing to kind of remove that weight as well, right, So it wasn't just about the getting the money for these things to help me, you know, tackle my debt. It was also like it's metaphor, right, so it's also making room in your life for the things that you say that you want. And so those were really like making sure I had And yes, I could have done it strictly with my full time job income and that is primarily what did it. But the extra income from the SI hustles helped either to make you know, round off an extra debt payment or was able you know, I was able to still hang out with my friends, you know, in moderate and things like that. And that's another thing that I did, Like, I didn't cut out everything. I cut back and created boundaries around things. I definitely got better at saying no to people and things, especially if I realized they were going to take away from the progression that I wanted to make and that I was making. But you know, I didn't go out every week, and if I went out, it was lunch or a happy hour. And the good thing is is that I had a support network. I had a network of friends and family who understood, although they may not subscribe to this, I'm gonna work and I'm going to pay off all of my debt just yet, right, but they understood that I had a goal and that goal was tied around money, and they I didn't lose anyone in the process of saying not right now, or oh hey, I can't do this, but how about we meet for coffee in the morning instead, And so, you know, I think what really helped me is obviously finding just other ways to kind of boost my income and then having people who at minimum respected what I was trying to do. You know, at the end of the day, I always knew when I started this dep payoff journey and I was serious about doing it, that I was going to do it at a pace that worked for me, especially as a single woman, not wanting to sacrifice life because it is short.

But I think that and I'm proof that there is a way that.

You can tackle your debt while still enjoying the people and the things that bring you joy.

So then with that the great that you experienced an increase of income, Were there any additional lump sums of income, any inheritances that you receive to be able to help in paying off this eighty thousand dollars?

Yeah?

Cool, So just like hard work, whoah.

Yeah, very much so, and cutting back, putting boundaries around things, yeah, absolutely.

And any other outstanding debt or are you completely debt free?

Well, I still have my mortgage, But my mortgage was never My mortgage was never factored in my debt payoff journey. It was all the consumer debt, the credit cards, the student loans, the tax, the car.

No, my home is it's it's manageable.

So it's not a focus right now of like, oh, now you know I'm gonna pay off the mortgage, I've got some other things.

They've got to beep up. My say my emergency fund.

I've got to save for a few things, get some repairs done in here, and so that's what I'm gonna be working on next.

Nice all right, So what would you tell someone who is where you were when you started this journey? Maybe they've started and stopped a few times, but they want to get serious. What is your What are your words of wisdom for them?

You have to have a very personal reason why you want to pay off debt. Don't pay off debt because someone told you to. Don't pay off debt because I told you to.

You have to.

Create a reason that is extremely personal and visceral, to the point where you think about it so much you start to feel it.

It might even have a smell for you.

When you do that, that is going to keep you anchored and focused in what you are pursuing. It does not mean you won't lose motivation, because let me tell you, even before that tax bill came, I was starting to be I was starting to feel like, Okay, yeah, you've made this process but progress, but oh, you want to spend your money over here?

You know you want to do these other things.

So it's not to say that you won't lose motivation that that waxes and wanes. But when you do, and you need to refocus and remember why it is you started this in the first place. That reason that you've spelled out that you keep visible every day that you see every time you know, especially when you get paid and you decide you know, of course you're saving too, but you decide, oh, you know, with this extra money, I'm going to go ahead and tackle this bill or tackle this debt. You're going to need to to have that to hold you accountable, to keep you moving forward.

And so above.

In addition to having this why is what we all call it this in this space, go at your own pace and don't compare yourself to anyone else. That is something that I did a little bit in the beginning where it's like, I see, you know these people or they're married and coupled, and they've got all of these resources that they can pull together and they can come, you know, tackle all of this dead while the rest of the household bills are still taken care of. Well, I didn't have that luxury, right, it was just me, And so go at your own pace because you have to take care of yourself. I will also say that I did along the journey. I did take breaks. I did not completely stop, but I took breaks. And it's good for your mental health because you can't just be intense about it.

All the time every day.

You know twenty four to seven you're gonna burn out, and so to increase the likelihood that you will stick to it, have your why.

Go at your own pace.

When you feel like, you know what, I can't do this, or I'm losing motivation, Remember why you want? Why you said you wanted to do in the first place.

Oh, this is so helpful to hear, and I think being able to find and hold the tension between having a really strong why as you've described, that kind of visceral and deep level of attachment to why I'm paying off the debt, but paired with permission to take your time to start and stop. That's a really fine line. It sounds like you did it. You're trying to help and encourage others to find that. But both an intensive why and also the ability to say it's okay if this takes a long time, and it's okay if I'm not going hard at it for years on end. So thank you for that. I also want to talk a little bit about PSLF. I know there's so many questions around it. People are pursuing this it worked for you, which is really incredible and celebratory in and of itself. I know there's so much information. We did an entire episode on this with you, But can you just give one tip if someone is curious to learn more about that specific process of the debt free journey, what would you say?

Follow me on Instagram because I talk about all things ps LEF no but and no real life, real life. Honestly, if you are hesitant, do it anyway.

One of the things I noticed around talking about the waiver, which I almost did every single day, is that people were reluctant because either they felt like they didn't qualify or it was going to take too long.

We don't know all the.

Tricks in the bag that the Department of Education in this administration has not to mention. There are going to be other changes, more permanent changes coming to PSLFT in the summer. Some of this we've seen in the waiver. So at least try at least go on to the studentaid dot gov website, at least start utilizing the employer eligibility tool that's on there. Figuring out if you believe you're in public service, start figuring out if your employer qualifies, and start getting your employment certified. You want one of my favorite things, I don't know where it came from, but it's success happens when preparation and opportunity meet. I don't know where I got it from, but I love it, and so I would much rather. You're not going to lose anything but maybe a few minutes of your life. But you want to be prepared because in the event these changes come in, they do another waiver or even not.

You just don't know where you're going to be ten years from now. I thought I was going to leave public service. I said, you know what, this program is trashed. They weren't approving people. I hate my job. I'm leaving, And look, I stayed and I'm not. I'm not miserable. I changed the role, right, I made some changes and I stayed and now I am no.

Longer in six figure crippling student loan debt. So if you're hesitant, at least try at least look into it, at least determine your eligibility and just you know, apply for the program. Because you never know where life is going to take you. You may not think you'll be you know, let's say you're in for five years now, you may not think you're going to be in for another five You don't know, and you don't know if you'll go to another, you know, another organization that would qualify. So I think it's just better to be prepared and have that kind of working for you in the background while you do other things.

Did you just never know?

Absolutely?

Yes.

So we've come to the part of the program where you've shared. You've shared so much wisdom with us, and now we want to celebrate you. It's time to celebrate. Eighty thousand dollars of consumer debt paid off through hard work, single income, high cost of living area, over one hundred and thirty three thousand dollars of student loans forgiven, also through hard work and diligence.

Working in public service in twelve plus years. That's no joke. That takes a toll. So you put in the work.

You put in the work for both, and now it's time for you to celebrate you, for us to celebrate you.

So how you want to do it?

How you want to do it?

Girl, I guess I'm going to It's crazy because I have been crying every it still doesn't feel real.

I have the letter sitting right here next to me, and it still doesn't feel real.

But you're det ry.

Oh wow.

Thank you Nica forgiving us the honor of celebrating with you and trusting us with this story, this journey, this hard earned accomplishment, and to utilize this space to share that, to cry celebratory, joyful tears, for inspiring and encouraging others, giving hope and motivation to others. You have just done so much in these last twenty minutes, and we appreciate and celebrating.

Through your whole journe You've done so much for people. You have been working for yourself, but you have also been motivating and inspiring other people and helping other people through your entire journey, and we are we are just honored to be part of it. Small in a small way.

Thank you.

No, You've been on this journey almost for as long as I've been on it.

We've talked about it a number of.

Times collabs, podcast you know, podcasts, interviews, and you know, it's so nice to be able to This is the first time I think I have actually verbalized it, you know, I've shared it on Instagram by typing it.

I've you know, shared it with family, but I've never really said those.

Words in god, how liberating, how freeing anyway, But thank you for giving me the platform to be able to share my journey, not just now, but you know, like I said in the past, and definitely being at this place where I'm able to have different.

News for you in your audience in sharing that I am debt free. So thank you.

I teared up, like when Nico was was screaming, like her debt free scream.

There were tears shed.

There were tears on both on both ends.

I think, like I think we said that, yeah, because there was so much to be gained here and so much sacrifice made in the process as well, that it's just so powerful when you do finally get to the end of this specific goal with so much money, so much work, so much research, and yeah, this is one part of a larger journey. It's a very exciting part. But I think the tears are because not missing the journey. Life has been lived in the journey up until this point, and it was difficult and not without questions, of can I even do this? Will I ever be able to actually pay this off? Which I know many of us question at various stages of our debt payoff journey, is this even possible? Can I even do this? Even once we begin, we hit roadblocks and hiccups and we can feel like, what's even the point? And it's really exciting when we do get to that point of we didn't give up. We might have slowed down at certain points, we might have felt like giving up, but we can find ourselves on the other side of it years later.

Yeah, and these Deffree stories are super helpful, like to keep going. I was thinking this morning about like, what is what's the biggest barrier to people paying off debt? And I honestly like, I think it's the second week. The first week because paying off debt is involves a lot of lifestyle change. Values based spending involves a lot of lifestyle change. And the first week is not the hard week like the first week. You have you hear stories like Nika, and you are very motivated. It's the second week when you still are following these you already last week follow these self imposed restrictions right and now they're coming up again and you have to follow them again, but you're also not seeing any progress yet. Is that second, third, fourth week. But after three to four months, that's when you start. If you stick with it, that's when you start seeing the progress. And Nika emphasizes having a strong personal reason for paying off debt, and I think that's what gets you through those first one, two, three, four months before you're seeing progress with your eyes. Is feeling that deep internal convict that I deserve better, I deserve more than what is in front of me. I deserve a better future. And really internalizing that and believing that you deserve that is really having that internal motivator. Motivators is what I think the biggest mental block to sticking with it.

And a lot of the work that she put in was researching, understanding becoming an expert on PSLF. Knowing that what she owed in student loan debt and what she earned annually, it just the math was not going to be mathing, and so how can we look for other resources that can help with this? And yeah, it is shrouded and a lot of mystery, and it's why she has become such such an amazing person in the space of PSLF information, but that was hard earned. Yeah, it is. It is a little bit of a matter of working smarter not harder, which I always appreciate, like rather than feeling as though I have to do all of this, Hey, I'm in a space working where this can be forgiven for me if I also do the legwork and put in the time to understand it. So and now she's able to turn around and help other people still be able to take advantage of PSLF. So that's awesome.

Yeah, it's PSLF. It's something that like you don't want to count, you don't want to bank on it, but it is really great to utilize, if you know, I think the math around how it would work for you. Like a lot of my loans were eligible for PSLF, but in my lifestyle I didn't want to do the kind of public service that required I couldn't even do the type of public service with my acupunctured degree that would get those loans forgiven. So so much much of it has to do with the line of work you want to go into, where you want to stay, And it is okay that you don't want to be in there. It is okay if you do want to be in there and get PSLF. Another thing that I think is fantastic about Nica is that she didn't let her her career limit her in her income. She still worked for the government, she still pursued raises, she still pursued more within the parameters. And I was also thinking this morning of the study you found Jill for the book saying that people work better and more creatively and more innovatively under parameters versus just having a free for all, no budget whatever, and so Nika really took that to heart, and she pursued earning more within the parameters that kept her eligible for PSLF, and just like went for it in there. She didn't just say like, oh, I have to make a low income so I stay eligible for this.

Yeah. I love how she highlighted the ability to take breaks along the way still prioritize your mental health. I just think there's so much to be gleaned from the way Nica walked through this, not just all the information she has on BSLF, but also how she actually practiced her journey of becoming debt free. I think she represents that radical middle that you don't have to bear it all on your shoulders alone or forget that you are a human with needs. There you can take advantage of resources, you can care for yourself in the process, and then you can celebrate it when you achieve the thing.

And we do have an update from Nica. She says, since becoming debt free, I've been able to take my mom on an all inclusive trip to Mexico, our first ever travel experience together. I've increased my contributions to my retirement and brokerage accounts. I'm also on track to maxing out my health savings account for this second year in a row. And I'm just fifteen hundred away from saving ten thousands ten thousand toward a newer car. Oh, that's another.

Thing to celebrate. That's amazing. These are so many updates and I think shows how far your money then can go once you've practiced becoming debt free. Yes, yeah, you can really leverage it in some decent ways.

And when other things come out, because I think after we got this update, you got unfortunately had to go to the hospital for a little bit. And once when you are debt free, things like that become less of a crisis, less of a you can focus fully on your health and getting better because you're not also focused on how am I going to be able to afford this with all my debt payments, Like you can fully take care of you and your and your health and your mental health and your well being when you have the financial side more under control and you feel secure there. That's why we say personal finance really does. We are whole people, and personal finance touches our whole person hut, every part of us. So we don't put money in the bank just to have numbers sitting in a bank. Those numbers are only there so that we can do the things that really matter, like taking our mom on a trip and focusing on our health and our mental health when it matters. So yay, yay.

You know what else touches every part of this podcast because.

We really our whole personhood.

I feel it time, Yes, the mill of the week.

That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo bills, bill clan.

This is the bill of the week.

Hi there, Jen and Jill. It's Jesse here from New Zealand. I love your podcast. Thanks for your hard work. My bill of the week is that I needed some new running shoes and I wanted to get some new balanced ones because I had as part of an insurance deal that I have, I could get twenty five percent off, but I wasn't sure on the sizing, so I went into the sports Weir shop and I tried on some of the shoes and I found out the right size. Then I realized that the ones that I tried on were the size that I needed and the color that I needed that I liked, and they were two hundred and nineteen dollars originally, and I got them for one hundred and nineteen dollars because they were half well, there was one hundred dollars off and on the EP that was going to be using with my twenty five percent discount, they would have still been at least one hundred and sixty one hundred and eighty two hundred dollars, So I was really glad that I didn't rely on the discount, but I actually just went into the shop. Yeah, that's my bill of the week. Thank you for all you do.

Bye chassis girl, fellow runner. I get it with the shoes. They high shoes. You want to spend money on them, right because they are your feet. You only get one pair and you should have good running shoes like this is something we will spend money on, you know, as runners. You got to do it, and that is fantastic. The discounts don't always save you money. They are used in those insurance apps as advertising. So I'm glad that you got the deal. And I okay, I don't want to take away from Jesse's story, but I had a similar running shoe story.

WHOA.

I went in and I know I've I've shared this on the show before, but I was downtown with Travis and we just like to, you know, we like to go into running stores, like wherever we are, we see one, and so we were downtown. We went into the running store and they had the exact shoes that I run in like my Diadora's, and they were half off brand new. This was the latest model too, because they were the gold edition and it said it was a misprint. It said glod instead of hold on it. So they were all half off, so I didn't need a pair, but I bought them and they're up on my shelf for when I hit three hundred and fifty miles on my current shoes. Then now I just already have the next pair waiting for me.

To have some glods. Clods, Yeah, so fitting, we don't care. If it's gold, we'll take that. I don't care.

Their gold stars so beautiful too, Like they are the gold additions, so everything else is like gold on them, not like shiny metallic gold, but like just off white. And yeah, they're great and so I'm still waiting to use them.

Look good to you guys just geeking out over your shoes. Thanks Jesse from New Zealand for calling in and talking about your deal going into the store, and just for running around New Zealand. If you find yourself just running across the ocean to Florida, hit us up general glod with you.

Let's glood together.

If you all are listening and you have a bill about deals or no deals or glows or gold, visit Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash bill leave us your bill. We can't wait. And now it's time for the lightning.

Around pew all right, So today's lightning round Oh, it's about it's a mental health one. Do you find did you find or discover any particular strategies or activities especially helpful for managing stress during your debt payoff journey? So yes, for us, we so we went. We were the people that went real hard, all in one hundred percent and really made the debt payoff our identity.

Uh.

And it was a method. It was a method people can do. So but I was miserable. I was miserable for two years. I and it wasn't because I wasn't because eventually I found ways to meet my internal needs, specifically for spending time with friends. That was the that was the one I was really missing. I had fulfilling work, I had family at Faith. It was the friendship one that I was spending money.

Which is why you were so open to meeting up with us at the beach.

Yes. Yes, that was.

In the midst of your debt payoff, shortly before you paid it off.

Yes.

So so yeah, like we were, we were those people, But I was still like the miserable feeling came from guilt and shame about being in so much debt. How did I let myself get here? And there were all very like good reasons that I got there. I went to college like it wasn't you know, Like it was what I was told to do. And part of a very little bit was for a car, you know, and so it was very reason. But still I felt all this shame about not knowing about money, about not seeking it out before I did this, about you know, buying all the textbooks instead of you know, at the school, instead of looking for all of them. Use like all these things that now I'm learning I could do and I didn't do. I just felt dumb, you know. And then I had somebody on the radio telling other people doing the same thing I was doing that they were dumb, you know. So I had that reinforced in me. So I had a lot of stress trying to pay it off that was fueled by that guilt and shame. So I think the thing. So it took me years to realize that though, like I didn't realize that while I was paying off the debt. I didn't realize that until afterwards. But what did help while I was paying off debt was helping other people, or at least having the idea that I helping other people. So I started a blog on a free site, and I just started all the things I was learning on how to save money, all the things I felt guilt for for not having learned or not knowing the questions to ask. I started writing those things for other people so they would have the questions and they would have the knowledge that I didn't. And so I just started writing that stuff and posting them on my Facebook. And then I had people say, oh my gosh, thank you for posting this. It helped me so much. And so then I took it just I kept taking it like further and further to where I turned it into a business. But not everybody has to. I think you can still help people in whatever medium is most life giving to you. Because when you're paying off debt and when you're transitioning from spending on whatever you want whenever you want to more parameters on your spending, it just naturally poses stress. Friction causes some level of stress. So do something that gives you life. Writing gives me life. I love I love writing, whether it's podcasting, recording and talking on a video whatever. Just and don't try to make it a business. Just try to help the people around you. In the book, in the last chapter. We talk a lot about giving permission to others, like we're giving you permission to be different, to do different, to spend differently, And it's your responsibility after you have the information to give permission to the people around you, no influencer status needed. And so that most helpful to me is helping the people around me learn the lessons that I was learning without before the guilt and shame couldn't like infect them.

Yeah, that's good for me. It was a much longer journey. It took us seven years, and that was in part because of the level of income we were making. We just we couldn't do it faster than that, and so I definitely needed an approach that allowed for more time, sustainability, longevity in it. It's probably similar to how you would train differently. You need different things to do a sprint versus a marathon, and it costs you different things as the result too. But for me, I think I really did have to find a radical middle. On the one hand, looking at what I owe and having some sort of way of tracking my progress, looking at my goals, knowing how much I'm able to put towards debt, how much is left. Having that visual was really helpful. I had a spreadsheet. Anytime I could throw even twenty bucks at it, it excited me to go into my spreadsheet right down, I just threw twenty bucks and watched the number drop. So that visual was helpful. However, I could also become obsessive over it, and in a seven year journey, it's too much to always have that at the forefront. So I also had to provide some tension to that by if I caught myself wanting to get back into the spreadsheet more than I needed to, stepping away from the computer, my desk, going for a walk. I went on a lot of walks during that debt payoff time, and all the things that we've talked about before, get still getting together with friends, still doing the things that are going to care for me, for us, but finding the creative ways where it doesn't cost money, where I'm not feeling like, oh man, but I could have put that money towards debt. But now we did this for free. I still have to eat like these types of things, so really holding the tension in it. But both were helpful and pandem for me. Well, everyone, thanks for listening. We hope that you found something that is helpful for you in your debt payoff journey, and if you did, please tell us about it in a review. We are still lack in some room. I mean, we've got some amazing reviews and we're about to read you one, but we would also love to hear from more of you. We know there's more of you out there who have been listening to the show for a while who haven't yet done it. We'd love to hear from you. Here's an example. This one comes from Miss RATCHI. It says new listener or even new listener, if you're a new listener and you want to give us a five star rating like this one. I'm absolutely loving this podcast. Jen and Jill make frugality seem possible and they're fun to listen to. I love that the show notes are detailed, and I'm excited to jump into this podcast and way of life.

Oh thank you, Miss Rachie. Kind of want to. I want to look at you like your Miss Rachel. I'm going to picture you like your Miss Rachel. So thank you, Miss Rachie. If yeah, if you enjoyed the show, please let us know, and it helps people figure out if this show is for them know what we're about, what we're not about, and if there's something we don't talk about and you love that, say say it in a review and be like, I love that these girls don't talk like this or about this, because it's just it's important to identify who the show is for and not for. So we're all getting what we need and not wasting time on what we don't.

Thanks for being here, everyone, see you next time. Heye.

Grugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. All right, so I think I can say this. I won't I won't say, I won't say where we're at, but I will say Jill and Eric have joined our phone family plan family. So I thought about sending out when Eric made the new group texts this morning, I thought about like creating something in can but like our family is growing, like one of those announcements, but for Jill and Eric, like welcome Jill and Eric. Our family is growing.

Although now I'm the phone account holder. Now we joined you guys and then took over.

The baby has become the parent. Yeah, which is great. The we were the administrators of our account for years and now we're like, yes, so much so little responsibility we're just going for less and less responsibility. Honestly love that. But I when that text group was made, I was like, this group text now needs a name because before it was just four of us, and now it's six of us, and I just think it needs like a group text with six people needs a name. Four people does not.

Like So tell them what you wanted to be, Jen.

I want it to be called people.

How funny you are.

The family, but with a pH because we're on a phone family plan. And then I want that little emoji, which is like the mafia hand. And I was either going for that or a car like Fast and Furious Family, But I like the hand.

I like you too, my brain calm up, fingers together, getting your point across the family, listen to.

Me, the family. Uh so yeah, I just I got so excited about that this morning, and I couldn't wait. I wanted to tell you in the after show to get your honest reaction, and.

I couldn't wait.

I couldn't wait. We're excited. I'm here for it. It's gonna happen. Man.

We just keep getting more and more attached to each other. We have legal documents and we're in a phone family plan, like legal binding documents between us.

Yeah, we go with launch trips together. You're my What are you to me?

What are you apple buddy? Think about that, Think about what I am to you?

So many things.

Jen

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