Welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, brought to you by Money Magazine, creating financial freedom for Australians since nineteen ninety nine.

Welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, brought to you by Money Magazine, creating financial freedom for Australians since nineteen ninety nine.

Hello and thanks for joining us for another episode of Friends with Money, Money Magazines podcast to help you earn, save and achieve your financial goals. My name is Tom Watson, a senior journalist here at Money Magazine, and as always it is a pleasure to be with you. Listeners will probably know by now that I love a stat. So today's stat is that there are over thirteen point five million credit card accounts in Australia, at least according to the latest data from the Reserve Bank. Now that's not quite as many as they were back in twenty sixteen when that figure was closer to seventeen million, but it's a number that's stabilized and even sided to tick back up in recent years. And that's old saying that there are a lot of credit cards in this country and that they are they actually make up a pretty big part of our spending mix. Now, it is really important to say upfront that credit cards are not for everyone. They are a form of credit, after all, and they come with all the potential pitfalls associated with credit but they can also be an effective money management tool if they are used well. Whateveryone wants or needs from a credit card is going to be different, though, So on today's episode, we are going to dig into some of the different types of credit cards and the kinds of features they offer to find out how they can help users budget and save money and earn points and a bunch more. And to do that, I am a very pleased to say that we are joined today by a friend of the show and personal finance expert at financial comparison website Moso, Rachel Wasstell Rachel, great to have you back on the show.

Hello and thanks for joining us for another episode of Friends with Money, Money Magazines podcast to help you earn, save and achieve your financial goals. My name is Tom Watson, a senior journalist here at Money Magazine, and as always it is a pleasure to be with you. Listeners will probably know by now that I love a stat. So today's stat is that there are over thirteen point five million credit card accounts in Australia, at least according to the latest data from the Reserve Bank. Now that's not quite as many as they were back in twenty sixteen when that figure was closer to seventeen million, but it's a number that's stabilized and even sided to tick back up in recent years. And that's old saying that there are a lot of credit cards in this country and that they are they actually make up a pretty big part of our spending mix. Now, it is really important to say upfront that credit cards are not for everyone. They are a form of credit, after all, and they come with all the potential pitfalls associated with credit but they can also be an effective money management tool if they are used well. Whateveryone wants or needs from a credit card is going to be different, though, So on today's episode, we are going to dig into some of the different types of credit cards and the kinds of features they offer to find out how they can help users budget and save money and earn points and a bunch more. And to do that, I am a very pleased to say that we are joined today by a friend of the show and personal finance expert at financial comparison website Moso, Rachel Wasstell Rachel, great to have you back on the show.

Great to be back. Great to be talking about something I personally think more people need to know a lot more about.

Great to be back. Great to be talking about something I personally think more people need to know a lot more about.

I thought you were going to open up your there and show us the ten credit cards sitting inside. That probably wouldn't work well on a podcast with it.

I thought you were going to open up your there and show us the ten credit cards sitting inside. That probably wouldn't work well on a podcast with it.

Now I've learned my lesson and I'm very well versed in credit cards.

Now I've learned my lesson and I'm very well versed in credit cards.

Now that's great to know, and I'm sure they'd be handy today. So, Rachel, the way I'd like to tackle this is a little bit different to how would usually approach an episode. So I thought that I would adopt a bunch of hypothetical credit card users and then get you to give us a bit of a run through of the kinds of cards and features that could help each one of these hypothetical toms, as I will call them, I meet their needs. So how does that sound to.

Now that's great to know, and I'm sure they'd be handy today. So, Rachel, the way I'd like to tackle this is a little bit different to how would usually approach an episode. So I thought that I would adopt a bunch of hypothetical credit card users and then get you to give us a bit of a run through of the kinds of cards and features that could help each one of these hypothetical toms, as I will call them, I meet their needs. So how does that sound to.

You, brilliant, I'm excited for this.

You, brilliant, I'm excited for this.

Okay, well let's get straight into it. Then. The first one of these is what I call every day spender Tom. This is the basic model, the whitebread model. I want something that I can use to pay for the usual larger purchase, but I'm also debt against paying any interest on my card, and I actually really don't want to pay any fees on the card at all if I can help it. So my question for you is this achievable? And if so, what kind of cards might suit me in and what kind of features would I want or need to use.

Okay, well let's get straight into it. Then. The first one of these is what I call every day spender Tom. This is the basic model, the whitebread model. I want something that I can use to pay for the usual larger purchase, but I'm also debt against paying any interest on my card, and I actually really don't want to pay any fees on the card at all if I can help it. So my question for you is this achievable? And if so, what kind of cards might suit me in and what kind of features would I want or need to use.

So I think the key is to first make sure you get a credit card that has interest free days. You might assume that all credit cards offer an interest free period, but that's not actually the case. Some cards don't have that, so you need to make sure if you don't want to get charged any interest. First of all, you get a card with interest free days, and then you keep an eye on when those interest free days start. So as boring as it is, you really need to read your statement and the terms and conditions of the card because that's the only way you'll know exactly how that interest free period works. Now, if you do pay your balance off every billing cycle and you don't have any balance accrewing interest, you could opt for a no annual fee card, but do have higher rates more often than not. So if you are going to get a KiB of now annual fee, you really want to make sure that you don't have any balances. So I guess you may want to look for a low rate as well as a low annual fee. If there's any inkling, you're going to have a balance there. So there are a number of low rate cards with low annual fees, and we actually recently looked at one hundred and ninety nine credit cards to find that there are a few providers offering low annual fees and rates under ten percent, like small smaller providers like Defense Bank, or your mutuals like GENC Mutual. And then you've got Move Bank as well in there.

So I think the key is to first make sure you get a credit card that has interest free days. You might assume that all credit cards offer an interest free period, but that's not actually the case. Some cards don't have that, so you need to make sure if you don't want to get charged any interest. First of all, you get a card with interest free days, and then you keep an eye on when those interest free days start. So as boring as it is, you really need to read your statement and the terms and conditions of the card because that's the only way you'll know exactly how that interest free period works. Now, if you do pay your balance off every billing cycle and you don't have any balance accrewing interest, you could opt for a no annual fee card, but do have higher rates more often than not. So if you are going to get a KiB of now annual fee, you really want to make sure that you don't have any balances. So I guess you may want to look for a low rate as well as a low annual fee. If there's any inkling, you're going to have a balance there. So there are a number of low rate cards with low annual fees, and we actually recently looked at one hundred and ninety nine credit cards to find that there are a few providers offering low annual fees and rates under ten percent, like small smaller providers like Defense Bank, or your mutuals like GENC Mutual. And then you've got Move Bank as well in there.

And just don't why you mentioned interest free days there, Rachel. They don't always necessarily mean or follow a calendar months, do that. They can be longer than that depending on the card.

And just don't why you mentioned interest free days there, Rachel. They don't always necessarily mean or follow a calendar months, do that. They can be longer than that depending on the card.

Yes, so they can get up to fifty five days interest free between thirty forty four. There's a few different ways in which credit card is offer those interest free days, and I think that's why it's so important that, as boring as it is and as lengthy as they are, you read the statement to figure out when your interest free period starts and ends, and set reminders to help you keep track of that.

Yes, so they can get up to fifty five days interest free between thirty forty four. There's a few different ways in which credit card is offer those interest free days, and I think that's why it's so important that, as boring as it is and as lengthy as they are, you read the statement to figure out when your interest free period starts and ends, and set reminders to help you keep track of that.

Yes, excellent points are and definitely a feature worth making use of if you're looking to avoid paying interest. As you said, it's really important that you set reminders and keep on top of that balance to make sure that you don't end up paying interest when you don't need to. So anyway, they sound like really great features and potentially interesting cards for kind of whitebread Tom. There you know, something nice and simple to us to cater for everyday spending. But I want to move on to hypothetical Tom number two now, and this is what I like to call debt management Tom or the Detonator. Sadly, this hypothetical Tom has ranked ups and credit card debt that he is paying interests on which he really doesn't like understandably, and he really wants to try and get rid of or at least pay as little interest on it as possible. So what are hypothetical Tom's number two's options here, Rachel.

Yes, excellent points are and definitely a feature worth making use of if you're looking to avoid paying interest. As you said, it's really important that you set reminders and keep on top of that balance to make sure that you don't end up paying interest when you don't need to. So anyway, they sound like really great features and potentially interesting cards for kind of whitebread Tom. There you know, something nice and simple to us to cater for everyday spending. But I want to move on to hypothetical Tom number two now, and this is what I like to call debt management Tom or the Detonator. Sadly, this hypothetical Tom has ranked ups and credit card debt that he is paying interests on which he really doesn't like understandably, and he really wants to try and get rid of or at least pay as little interest on it as possible. So what are hypothetical Tom's number two's options here, Rachel.

Hypothetical Tom is actually past Rachel. So this is a great question, a great scenario.

Hypothetical Tom is actually past Rachel. So this is a great question, a great scenario.

I should have put it ass Rachel in that. Oh wow, this is definitely not confusing it.

I should have put it ass Rachel in that. Oh wow, this is definitely not confusing it.

Yes, so balance transfer cards can be a great option if you're paying double digit interest on outstanding credit card debt. But I guess the key thing to look at with balance transfers is if you're planning on using that card to make purchases on top of that balance transfer, there's a few things that you kind of need to be aware of. So when you transfer the balance over, what happens is you agree to pay that off within a certain period. So the moment, the longest term we've got on the MOSO database is around twenty eight months, so just over two years, which means you have a certain amount to pay each month on that balance to make sure it's cleared within the term. And when you transfer that balance over the credit card provider typically charges what they call a balance transfer handling fee, and it's a one off, one to three percent charge on the total balance. So if you do pay it off within that term, you'll pay zero percent interest that on that balance over the course, but you will pay that one to three percent handling fee, which is great because then if you were not going to pay it off and you were paying double digit interest, that's quite a big saving. Now, this is where it gets a little bit tricky because with some balance transfer cards you can get interest free days on purchases, and there are around ten providers at the moment we've seen that let you do this, like three of the big banks, say in zed westpack and AB and then Bankwestern, Heritage Bank are some others that allow that. But the thing is, if you are going to make purchases on a balanced transfer credit card, you need to clear your purchases in full and make the agreed balance transfer payment within the billing cycle to keep the zero percent. Plus many of those cards cap to balance transfer total it around eighty percent of the accrued limit, so you've got around twenty percent of that limit available to spend. But yeah, so I guess the key here, And this is really important because this matters a lot to me because I've rang my credit card provider a fair few times to discuss this in depth. So if you are considering a balanced transfer card, just make sure if you are going to spend on it, you clear those purchases first, and also make sure you have interest free days on those purchases as well.

Yes, so balance transfer cards can be a great option if you're paying double digit interest on outstanding credit card debt. But I guess the key thing to look at with balance transfers is if you're planning on using that card to make purchases on top of that balance transfer, there's a few things that you kind of need to be aware of. So when you transfer the balance over, what happens is you agree to pay that off within a certain period. So the moment, the longest term we've got on the MOSO database is around twenty eight months, so just over two years, which means you have a certain amount to pay each month on that balance to make sure it's cleared within the term. And when you transfer that balance over the credit card provider typically charges what they call a balance transfer handling fee, and it's a one off, one to three percent charge on the total balance. So if you do pay it off within that term, you'll pay zero percent interest that on that balance over the course, but you will pay that one to three percent handling fee, which is great because then if you were not going to pay it off and you were paying double digit interest, that's quite a big saving. Now, this is where it gets a little bit tricky because with some balance transfer cards you can get interest free days on purchases, and there are around ten providers at the moment we've seen that let you do this, like three of the big banks, say in zed westpack and AB and then Bankwestern, Heritage Bank are some others that allow that. But the thing is, if you are going to make purchases on a balanced transfer credit card, you need to clear your purchases in full and make the agreed balance transfer payment within the billing cycle to keep the zero percent. Plus many of those cards cap to balance transfer total it around eighty percent of the accrued limit, so you've got around twenty percent of that limit available to spend. But yeah, so I guess the key here, And this is really important because this matters a lot to me because I've rang my credit card provider a fair few times to discuss this in depth. So if you are considering a balanced transfer card, just make sure if you are going to spend on it, you clear those purchases first, and also make sure you have interest free days on those purchases as well.

Really important point, but obviously something that can be really useful just out of interest, Rachel, Why would credit card companies even offer balanced transfers to people? You know what's in it for them?

Really important point, but obviously something that can be really useful just out of interest, Rachel, Why would credit card companies even offer balanced transfers to people? You know what's in it for them?

So a balanced transfer use is probably someone who's gotten into a little bit of credit card debt and likes to spend on the credit card. So for the bank, they're probably there will probably be a little cohort of those balanced transfer users that will think, oh, I've got twenty percent to spend of that limit, Oh maybe I can just spend a little bit outside of my means, and then they end up trapped back in that credit card debt cycle.

So a balanced transfer use is probably someone who's gotten into a little bit of credit card debt and likes to spend on the credit card. So for the bank, they're probably there will probably be a little cohort of those balanced transfer users that will think, oh, I've got twenty percent to spend of that limit, Oh maybe I can just spend a little bit outside of my means, and then they end up trapped back in that credit card debt cycle.

Right, Okay, so potential pitfall there. So really, if you're thinking about a balance answer, as you said, you've got to be really disciplined and really sure that you're going to be paying off your debt is so you're just getting one and just kind of spending as you were before.

Right, Okay, so potential pitfall there. So really, if you're thinking about a balance answer, as you said, you've got to be really disciplined and really sure that you're going to be paying off your debt is so you're just getting one and just kind of spending as you were before.

Agreed, And if you feel like you're going to spend on it, perhaps just cut up the card after you get it.

Agreed, And if you feel like you're going to spend on it, perhaps just cut up the card after you get it.

Always an option, all right. Let's move on to hypothetical Tom number three. And this is perhaps my favorite Tom because it's holiday Tom. Not that real Tom has had a holiday in a while, so this is wishful thinking a little bit. So Hypothetical Tom number three, he's got his bodies and his bucket hat ready to go because he's planning a big trip to the Greek Islands. So on that trip, he wants to be able to use a credit card to pay for things like flights and accommodation, but also to use it while he's over there to make you know, transactions where he needs to for as little cost as possible. So, Rachel, are there any travel friendly credit cards? I guess all features that that could help him there?

Always an option, all right. Let's move on to hypothetical Tom number three. And this is perhaps my favorite Tom because it's holiday Tom. Not that real Tom has had a holiday in a while, so this is wishful thinking a little bit. So Hypothetical Tom number three, he's got his bodies and his bucket hat ready to go because he's planning a big trip to the Greek Islands. So on that trip, he wants to be able to use a credit card to pay for things like flights and accommodation, but also to use it while he's over there to make you know, transactions where he needs to for as little cost as possible. So, Rachel, are there any travel friendly credit cards? I guess all features that that could help him there?

Yeah, so holiday Tom would probably as well as looking, you know, for a low rate or low annual fee. The key I think, and what's most interesting about travel credit cards is the foreign exchange fee. That's charged per purchase can add up to a significant amount if you're on holiday spending thousands of dollars. So for an Australian who's just using the average card on the market and they're getting charge at two point six eight percent foreign exchange free per purchase one five thousand dollars balance, that's an extra one hundred and thirty four dollars in those tiny fees. Yes, so I think the key thing if you are going to be spending on that credit card overseas is you try and find a card with zero foreign exchange fees. And we do have a few cards on the database like Bankwest's Freeze Platinum Master Card and Westpax Light Card. But I guess with credit cards for travel, the thing is hugely can't unfortunately find everything you want in the one card. So you're not going to find one that has a low annual fee, a low rate, free travel insurance, bonus perks, bonus rewards. It's not all going to come in one nice little package. So you need to prioritize what's most important to you and look at your financial situation to figure out how to get the best of what you need in that card.

Yeah, so holiday Tom would probably as well as looking, you know, for a low rate or low annual fee. The key I think, and what's most interesting about travel credit cards is the foreign exchange fee. That's charged per purchase can add up to a significant amount if you're on holiday spending thousands of dollars. So for an Australian who's just using the average card on the market and they're getting charge at two point six eight percent foreign exchange free per purchase one five thousand dollars balance, that's an extra one hundred and thirty four dollars in those tiny fees. Yes, so I think the key thing if you are going to be spending on that credit card overseas is you try and find a card with zero foreign exchange fees. And we do have a few cards on the database like Bankwest's Freeze Platinum Master Card and Westpax Light Card. But I guess with credit cards for travel, the thing is hugely can't unfortunately find everything you want in the one card. So you're not going to find one that has a low annual fee, a low rate, free travel insurance, bonus perks, bonus rewards. It's not all going to come in one nice little package. So you need to prioritize what's most important to you and look at your financial situation to figure out how to get the best of what you need in that card.

Excellent point and listen, this episode is about credit cards, but we're obviously free to talk about other travel options as well. And I'm sure you'd say, Rachel, that you know, traveling means that it's probably a wise idea to bring more than one form of a spending tool, like a debit card perhaps, or cash or a travel money card on top of that, so you can kind of, you know, mix and match and use what best suits you in your budget.

Excellent point and listen, this episode is about credit cards, but we're obviously free to talk about other travel options as well. And I'm sure you'd say, Rachel, that you know, traveling means that it's probably a wise idea to bring more than one form of a spending tool, like a debit card perhaps, or cash or a travel money card on top of that, so you can kind of, you know, mix and match and use what best suits you in your budget.

Right exactly. And there's a number of cards out there, like debit cards that are great for travel, you know, zero ATMPs, no phoney change fees like ups Up is quite a good little fintech bank backed by Bendigo that does a great job and also shows you in your app the spending you have in that particular area. So if you have a few hundred dollars in Aussie, it'll show you what that converts to where you are. So credit cards aren't the only option, and as always I would say, please use with caution.

Right exactly. And there's a number of cards out there, like debit cards that are great for travel, you know, zero ATMPs, no phoney change fees like ups Up is quite a good little fintech bank backed by Bendigo that does a great job and also shows you in your app the spending you have in that particular area. So if you have a few hundred dollars in Aussie, it'll show you what that converts to where you are. So credit cards aren't the only option, and as always I would say, please use with caution.

Excellent, excellent point. All right, let's move on to our final hypothetic called Tom hypothetical Tom number four, which is what i'd like to call fancy Tom, which may also be a well known brand of cat food down that I think about it, So let's ignore that anyway. This Tom is all about rewards points and the premium benefits that can come with a credit card. Though you know this Tom is also planning to use his hyde responsible and pay off his balance every month, those kind of things. He is willing to consider paying an annual fee if the benefits are good enough, though, So Rachel, what are his options on this front?

Excellent, excellent point. All right, let's move on to our final hypothetic called Tom hypothetical Tom number four, which is what i'd like to call fancy Tom, which may also be a well known brand of cat food down that I think about it, So let's ignore that anyway. This Tom is all about rewards points and the premium benefits that can come with a credit card. Though you know this Tom is also planning to use his hyde responsible and pay off his balance every month, those kind of things. He is willing to consider paying an annual fee if the benefits are good enough, though, So Rachel, what are his options on this front?

I think that this is a great category to look at because there are great rewards cards out there, but you do need to pay like a high annual fee to get the perks that you want. So if you don't mind paying that high on your fee or a higher rate, so these cards often come with a higher interest rate on purchases in order to earn frequent fly points or rewards points, and you want all these additional perks like lounge passes and concierge services and you know, living the high life as fancy Tom does. You need to make sure that you're going to make use of the benefits. So the key thing is look at are you going to spend enough to get the best value of the rewards program and make use of any free flights or lounge passes, and if you are not sure, you probably shouldn't get the card because you do need to spend ten thousands of dollars a year to be able to get you know, the reward back and our kind of cover the cost of that annual fee. But if you are you know, a family that want to put all your expenses and you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on a few overseas holidays trips a year, this could be a good option for you, but you really need to make sure that what you're spending will get you the best reward and bank for your buck.

I think that this is a great category to look at because there are great rewards cards out there, but you do need to pay like a high annual fee to get the perks that you want. So if you don't mind paying that high on your fee or a higher rate, so these cards often come with a higher interest rate on purchases in order to earn frequent fly points or rewards points, and you want all these additional perks like lounge passes and concierge services and you know, living the high life as fancy Tom does. You need to make sure that you're going to make use of the benefits. So the key thing is look at are you going to spend enough to get the best value of the rewards program and make use of any free flights or lounge passes, and if you are not sure, you probably shouldn't get the card because you do need to spend ten thousands of dollars a year to be able to get you know, the reward back and our kind of cover the cost of that annual fee. But if you are you know, a family that want to put all your expenses and you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on a few overseas holidays trips a year, this could be a good option for you, but you really need to make sure that what you're spending will get you the best reward and bank for your buck.

It sounds like this point that you've just made, Rachel, is something that's applicable to almost every type of kind that we talked about today. That there are useful features and useful points to these credit cards, but you've got to be really smart about how you use them, and they've got they've actually got to be right for you as well at the end of the day.

It sounds like this point that you've just made, Rachel, is something that's applicable to almost every type of kind that we talked about today. That there are useful features and useful points to these credit cards, but you've got to be really smart about how you use them, and they've got they've actually got to be right for you as well at the end of the day.

Right exactly, I think that there's a credit cards in particular, with all financial products, with credit cards in particular, it's really important to figure out what is exactly right for you because not one card is going to have all the answers. There's no magic credit card that will have everything you want.

Right exactly, I think that there's a credit cards in particular, with all financial products, with credit cards in particular, it's really important to figure out what is exactly right for you because not one card is going to have all the answers. There's no magic credit card that will have everything you want.

I thought we're going to end with the magic credit card, but apparently we are out of hypotheticals, thankfully, because I was definitely switching back between I and we and they there, which is all very confusing. And I was starting to think of fancy Tom as a cat as you were talking about airplanes and lounges and bits and pieces like that. Before we let you go, though, Rachel, I think it would be good to get me out of that mode, and also to underline some basic credit card hygiene. So do you have any tips for credit card users to I guess, either help them make the most of their cards or to ensure that they don't pay more than they need to.

I thought we're going to end with the magic credit card, but apparently we are out of hypotheticals, thankfully, because I was definitely switching back between I and we and they there, which is all very confusing. And I was starting to think of fancy Tom as a cat as you were talking about airplanes and lounges and bits and pieces like that. Before we let you go, though, Rachel, I think it would be good to get me out of that mode, and also to underline some basic credit card hygiene. So do you have any tips for credit card users to I guess, either help them make the most of their cards or to ensure that they don't pay more than they need to.

Yeah. So I think it's important to just think back to what we've discussed, like clear balance in full within the interest rey period, op for a low rate or a lower innual fee, make sure you're aware of your balance transfer term, make sure you know if you're getting charged foreign exchange fees if you're spending on a credit card overseas. And I think on top of all that, set reminders, be diligent and make sure that you are across what you're getting charged, because we have seen in the past few months a few credit card providers hiking rates and changing fees conditions, so really make sure you take a look. I know it's boring, but it will serve you very well.

Yeah. So I think it's important to just think back to what we've discussed, like clear balance in full within the interest rey period, op for a low rate or a lower innual fee, make sure you're aware of your balance transfer term, make sure you know if you're getting charged foreign exchange fees if you're spending on a credit card overseas. And I think on top of all that, set reminders, be diligent and make sure that you are across what you're getting charged, because we have seen in the past few months a few credit card providers hiking rates and changing fees conditions, so really make sure you take a look. I know it's boring, but it will serve you very well.

Well. I think that is an excellent place to end things, say than Rachel. So thank you as always for joining us on Friends of Money. It's been a pleasure, it's been fine and yeah it's always lovely to chat brilliant.

Well. I think that is an excellent place to end things, say than Rachel. So thank you as always for joining us on Friends of Money. It's been a pleasure, it's been fine and yeah it's always lovely to chat brilliant.

Thanks again.

Thanks again.

That's it for this episode of the Friends of Money podcast, But don't forget to jump on our website moneymag dot com dot Au for your daily dose or financial news, or you can go grab yourself a copy of the latest edition of Money Magazine in all good news agents. As always, Friends with Money will be all right back in your podcast feed next week, so until then, I am Tom Watson. Bye for now.

That's it for this episode of the Friends of Money podcast, But don't forget to jump on our website moneymag dot com dot Au for your daily dose or financial news, or you can go grab yourself a copy of the latest edition of Money Magazine in all good news agents. As always, Friends with Money will be all right back in your podcast feed next week, so until then, I am Tom Watson. Bye for now.

Thanks for listening to the Friends with Money podcast. For credible, independent and easy to understand financial commentary, visit moneymag dot com dot au. Please remember that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are general in nature and further into dependent advice and research based on your personal circumstances should be sought before making an investment decision.

Thanks for listening to the Friends with Money podcast. For credible, independent and easy to understand financial commentary, visit moneymag dot com dot au. Please remember that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are general in nature and further into dependent advice and research based on your personal circumstances should be sought before making an investment decision.