In a conversation fresh from the Freakonomics Radio Network’s podcast laboratory, Michèle Flournoy (one of the highest-ranking women in Defense Department history) speaks with Cecil Haney (one of the U.S. Navy’s first Black four-star admirals) about nuclear deterrence, smart leadership, and how to do inclusion right.

In a conversation fresh from the Freakonomics Radio Network&rsquo;s podcast laboratory, Mich&egrave;le Flournoy (one of the highest-ranking women in Defense Department history) speaks with Cecil Haney (one of the U.S. Navy&rsquo;s first Black four-star admirals) about nuclear deterrence, smart leadership, and how to do inclusion right.

Discover the hidden side of everything with Stephen J. Dubner, co-author of the Freakonomics books. Each week, Freakonomics Radio tells you things you always thought you knew (but didn’t) and things you never thought you wanted to know (but do) — from the economics of sleep to how to become great at just about anything. Dubner speaks with Nobel laureates and provocateurs, intellectuals and entrepreneurs, and various other underachievers. 

Discover the hidden side of everything with Stephen J. Dubner, co-author of the&nbsp;Freakonomics&nbsp;books. Each week,&nbsp;Freakonomics Radio tells you things you always thought you knew (but didn&rsquo;t) and things you never thought you wanted to know (but do) &mdash;&nbsp;from the economics of sleep to how to become great at just about anything. Dubner speaks with Nobel laureates and provocateurs, intellectuals and entrepreneurs, and various other underachievers.&nbsp;

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