Fowler, Who You Got?A revealing and inspiring conversation with my broadcast partner about her career on the court and in the booth, and how adversaries became friends. Chrissie opens up about how cancer changed her, what it has taught her, and her important message to all of us about caring for our own health.
I've walked the grounds of Wimbledon and the US Open and Roland Garros with Chrissy ever and I've seen over the years how fans have responded to Chrissy with great affection and admiration, even awesome times, and why not. Her tennis achievements are towering. The resume is well known, eighteen major titles, a long stint at number one, a career of remarkable consistency and longevity. We've also had the pleasure, of course, of sharing the broadcast both at ESPN and Chrissie for many years. We've called some of the best moments in recent tennis history. Who've also sat there and described some of the worst Grand Slam finals imaginable, some serious clunkers, and that will make you closer as a broadcast team. So Christy will talk about her career here, of course, and we'll get some behind the scenes stuff on our ESPN Tennis team, but also Chrissy will talk about how her adversaries became her friends, Martina Navratilova and John McEnroe, and of course we'll discuss Chrissy's fight with cancer in recent years, how cancer changed her, what it taught her, and most importantly, her message for the rest of us how to look out for our health and be our own advocate. So today I've got tennis Icon, trusted broadcast partner and dear friend, Chrissy. Ever well, Chrissy, thanks for taking time. We have so much to talk about. It's great to see your face. And very soon we will be at Wimbledon, back in that bunker office with a great view of the world's most famous tennis court. And I've had really the privilege and the fund of sharing that space with you some of the biggest matches in the tennis world in recent years. And I love how as these two women are making their way to center court for a moment in their lives. And you've been the young players, the underdog, you've been the more experienced player is the favorite. You've been the winner in that court, the runner up on that court. You've experienced everything, and I love how it makes you feel in those moments before a big final.
Yeah, that's a really special center court. You know, I'm American and people always ask me what's your favorite major and you know, I want to I want to say the US Open because I'm an American and the crowd is really behind Americans. But I grew up watching Wimbledon on TV and it had such a royalty about it. And as the late Dick Emberg said, it's it's like the cathedral of tennis. You know that. He couldn't have said any better. I always say when you when you are are a player and you walk out on the court, there's electricity and then there's like a hush, and then it's almost like you feel the history. You feel that the ghosts or the spirits that have been there before this, Suzanne Langland and Marian Conley's and you know, Margaret Courts and Billy Jean, and it just encompasses everything that tennis, you know, all the good things that tennis is all about. And I do. I get very emotional with you. You know, I have tears my eyes whoever wins, because I know it's going to change their life.
The next thing you're going to do in that town's calendar, though, is Roland Garros for European television, which you've done. We've worked together at Rowing Garos, so I've seen how you are treated in Paris, and I know that Wimbledon and the US Open are your favorites. But at rowand Garros. You walk around, it's like you're like the Queen of Paris. I mean, all these French people come up and they're they're kind of hushed and they're respectful. They don't know if they should approach or not approach. I mean, you won seven French Opens and you only lost six matches in your career. You have more titles than losses seventy two and six. That's ridiculous. Do you feel that when you walk around Paris a bit, that it's like a it's like a special place, and that you get that treatment from the French who are not always the quickest to embrace Americans.
Every every year I get less and less because you know, I've got you know, the white It's supposed to be blonde, but it's I've got the white hair now. And you know, I mean maybe people over fifty, you know, will like recognize me, But no, I mean I can actually walk through a crowd and won't get any fuss whatsoever.
But that's kind of nice, I guess at this point.
Yeah, no, it's good, but little fuss is okay. There's a big difference, you know, on clay. Look, I started playing on clay when I was six years old, so I mastered it. I feel at a young age, I got it. You know, we had a connection, Clay and I did because it was about it was slowing up the game. It was about having patients. It was about having placement over power, it was about having dropshots. And so when you grow up on a surface, you know, it's almost like when you learn to ski at a young age, you're just going to be great. But if you learn to ski, you know, when you're forty years old, forget it. So, you know, I think that that tournament was special, but I didn't feel the pressure. I felt more confidence. I mean, to win Wimblin for me was more of a challenge because my game was not suited for grass, and for me to figure out a way to make those to be flexible and to adapt to the grass, I had to change a few things. I had to tweak a few things. And I'm probably more proud of that the fact that you know, a baseliner could win on grass. At that point, when most of the players were certain Volley Philly Jean, Margaret Core and Evan Gulagong Martinez, it was all about certain vale and I didn't certain volley. So to win on that surface I think was more of a challenge and maybe meant more to me than Clay. I was very comfortable, very confident every time I played the French Open.
Yeah, that showed that's how you get to be seventy two and six at that tournament. Hey, there was one time, and remember this, when you did not get treated with reverence and respect. In Paris. We were out to dinner yourself, I think your sister was with us, Chris McKendree or our ESPN host Patrick macro and we all decided, let's let's go get some sushi. Let's try to find some good sushi in Paris. Who had enough with their French food. At the French at that time, they didn't have night matches. You could actually get a dinner after we'd finished working. So remember, we go to this little sushi restaurant next to Notre Dame. It was an eelcity, I think, in the middle of Paris, and we're having a good time. We're carrying on and we're laughing, and it's a very quiet little place and the sushi master is like eighty years old over there behind the counter, creating the sushi and eventually he sends one of the women who worked there around the counter out to talk to these loud Americans who are having a good time and enjoying the other company. And we got shushed. We got asked to quiet down and calm down and not make so much noise. It's a little sushi restaurant. Remember that.
Yes, I do remember that. But you know what, we were making a lot of noise. We were obnoxious Americans. I have to We were having fun. We probably had a glass of wine too, but trust me, I the one time I remember was that I tried to get into Rolling Garylson. I forgot my pass, I forgot my badge, and you know, I thought they'll know me, you know. So I walk up and they say no, no, no, you can't come in. And I was with some people and they're going, she's Chris Ever and no, no, no, no, no no. She wanted seven times, no no no no. Look look at her drivers that They looked at my driver's license, they look. I mean, we showed them everything and I couldn't get in.
So you know, they must have been a young person. Didn't have a clue, right, come on, I mean, how do you yeah, so what did you have to go back to the hotel and get it. You couldn't, you wouldn't get in the game.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no no. I think those people went in and got a pass for me to get in, So thank God for that. I think it was working.
You know, you're one of the greats in the sport that is not caught up in your own achievements. You don't have an encyclopedic recall of how many times you've won this title, or what your winning percentage was, your record against a certain player, except for Martina, we'll get to that later, but you just don't seem to get caught up in that stuff. Chrisy and I think it's it's nice because many players do have it their fingertips everything they've ever done, and they'll tell you about it proactively. Why was that sort of something that, hey, I achieved this stuff, but I'm not going to attach that to myself and make that part of my walking resume.
I think because that's how I had longevity and consistency, because I'd win a tournament and celebrate that night. If I won Wimbledon, celebrate that night. The next day. I was thinking, I've got Virginia Slims of Seattle in a week, and I wanted to win that tournament just as badly as I wanted to win Wimbledon. So I think an or to carry that momentum for years and years and years. I think you you can't think of the past. You know, you have to think that every day is a new day. You have to reset. You have to train hard and not be to impress with what you did in the past, and that that I always had, that I just wanted to keep winning. I was hungry, you know. So No I don't, but I do know my percentage because it's the highest, and I do know think.
Yes, I was going to say, I hope there's one number of people here. Listen, you should know that Chrissy Ever was one three hundred and nine wins one hundred and forty six losses, so eighty nine point nine seven winning percentages the ice in the open air, A male or female, you got to give me.
A ninety Come on at eighty nine point nine, I'm hitting me. I tell everybody ninety.
I mean you deserve to be rounded up the point of three. I get ninety percent.
No, that's the only one. Like when they say when I'm doing it appearance and they say, what do you want, you know, for your achievements. I go, I don't care. Just just remember that one. I think it's still standing. And everybody else, Serena, Martina, STEFFI, everybody else has broken my other one. So that's you know, I'm proud.
Of that still standing. That is never going to be broken for a career.
Yeah, I don't think so.
But we've talked about the fact that all those wins what you're expected. You took the court most of the time, maybe unless it was against Martina or Stephie Groff, when when you were later in your career, you're you were fully expected to win. So the losses are more noteworthy. Like when Serena loses, the headline is Serena loses, not her opponent wins. You said, though, that losses played a really important role for you and that you remember them more than the wins.
Well, let's put it this way. I emotionally reacted stronger to losses than I did to wins because I did didn't get again, I didn't get too excitable when I won a major because I had to the next day. Like I said, I put it behind me. I was very happy, but I didn't get too excited. But when I lost. I remember losing to Virginuate at Wimbledon. I stayed in my hotel room for three days, in my robe, and ate just ordered room service for three days. You know, just probably gained five pounds. And you know, I remember that was depressing. I mean, I understand depression because you know, I guess I took my losses inside of me because I didn't let emotion out on the court. I kept a lot in and so. But but they also I think they motivated me more, you know when I lost, because I'd learned more about Okay, let's go back to the drawing board, what do I have to do differently? So I think that's the reason. But now looking back, you know, when you get to a certain point and you have that much, that many years between you know, in your career and retiring, and now it's like I only think the good moments. I never think of the bad moments. So that's good.
I'm relieved to hear that three days in your robe in a hotel room ordering room service. I mean, did somebody go knocking the door? And now you didn't have probably the size of a team around you that modern players have, or they be beating in the door trying to talk you down off the ledge. But so three three days by yourself and nobody can reach you, Christy and say come on out of the room. You were second best, okay, Chris.
Compare that to you know, nowadays it's gone to a point where a player will take a year off fair point or six six months off, you know, because because I don't know if it's a match. But you know, we had we had, you know that the mental health, which is such an important topic now, you know, and which is everyone's talking about. We had it, but it was in lesser terms in our day. You know, there wasn't that much focus. There wasn't the the social media. We didn't have the attention, the money, et cetera, et cetera. So that was our little That was my little bout, you know, those three days. And if that was the worst thing that happened to me, you know, I was in good shape.
I think of you, and so do many others who remember your career and as one of these symbols of mental strength and toughness that leads to the kind of consistencies you have within a match and then within a career. And it's interesting to hear you say that you that was it was part of you, but there were other sides you kind of kept well hidden. A part of your arm was to not show doubts and vulnerabilities if you had them, or certainly you were able to get over those moments where you weren't consistent, You didn't make more mistakes than you wanted to. I did that. How were you able to sort of suppress that part of human nature so beautifully?
Because the way I'm wired, you know, I came out of the womb a certain personality. You know. I wasn't a go getter like Billy Jean, and I wasn't emotional, you know, outwardly emotional like Martina, which you know, which I actually admired the way they were. But I was quiet and I didn't have you know, Tennis gave me self esteem. I didn't have a lot of confidence as a kid, and Tennis gave me that feeling good about myself achieving something. And I remember practicing and getting mad and my dad saying to me, took me aside, and he said, Christy, in a very nice way, he said, let me just let me just give you a tip. Don't show your opponent how you're feeling, because they'll use that to their advantage. They'll say, aha, I've got her. And I never forgot that. I never forgot that because I would go out there and i'd be pretty much you know. Again, they had nicknames for me, but I would go out there and not show emotion. But it was also focus and I didn't want to be distracted. It was my personality and I used it to my advantage. And as soon as I saw my opponent getting emotional, ieset, uh huh, I've got her. You know it worked for me. You know, you got to do whatever works for you.
Did the nicknames bother you? No, No, I mean I'm going to see you read like Ice Maiden or whatever when you were a young player.
Yeah, no, No, it's it's amazing because I think, like they need a little miss poker face. Now would be a compliment, right, I mean Ice made I think they'd all be compliments now. It just shows that you're not succumbing to of just losing your your focus. And so I mean no, it really didn't bother me. That was that was how I was the other thing, Chris was, I was. I didn't think it was for me to get emotional, or for me to go up and argue with the lines men or to argue with the umpire. To me, knowing that millions of people were watching, you know, I just didn't think it was worth it. To me. It felt like I was lowering. I would lower myself if I did that. You know, I don't know. I have to be honest. I just wanted to be you know, it's important to be a good sport for me, admirable.
You know. The beauty of tennis, though, is that different personalities can emerge and excel and be stars and play the game their own way and express themselves their own way. So well, that was a certainly work for you. Yes, beyond belief. We call maxes people like Serena who certainly do show the world, including their opponent, how they're feeling point to point, and that's that letting it out works for them. And I think there's room to be all different kinds of ways on the court.
Well, you know, I often say the most important gift that Richard Williams gave his daughters is to be fearless, right from right from day one, you know, to just be fearless, don't be afraid, go for everything, and the world is your oyster. And I kind of grew up in an environment that was, you know, children should be seen and not heard. You know, that was the generation I didn't argue with my dad. I was you know, he was like, you know, I was kind of afraid of him, and I didn't. I couldn't really, you know, I didn't really have a voice growing up. So I think that kind of carried over to my tennis. But when I see John McEnroe and Serena and Martina, when I see the emotions coming out, I'm like whistful, I'm like, God, I missed out on that, you know, I missed out on maybe some moments that I could have been that way, you know, in a natural way. I could have let myself go, let myself a little bit looser, and you know, so I think it's great to have all different kinds of personalities.
You talked about your dad, Jimmy, who was an enormous figure in tennis, especially down here in South Florida, and he taught you the sport and your sisters and brothers and many many others. But he taught you to behave a certain way on the court. I guess, I guess behave a certain way off the court from what you're telling me. And yet when it came time for him to watch sennis matches, who did he tell you was his favorite player ever?
Yeah, So this is a father who always kept who always wanted me to, you know, be a lady out there and you know, be controlled. And so I walk in the house and I hear my dad laughing, and I walk in the living room and he's watching John can Roll on TV. And he said, oh, guys, he's just great. He's just great to watch. And I go, Dad, I go, you kidding me. I go, you brought me up not to act like that. And he's your favorite player. He just, yeah, it's my favorite player. So I'm like, okay, fine, you know that's I guess. Maybe he's a guy. You know, maybe a guy can do it and a girl, a woman couldn't do it. I don't know, but he was very amused by John.
Yeah, it's so wonderful you guys work together, and you couldn't have been more different on the court. Your personalities on the set are different too, and both having a humongous profile on the sport. You guys have the license to spar with each other as few do, and the way you guys play off of each other, and you kind of look at him sideways when John veers into the lane and women's tennis and talks with authority about that and goes way over the time he's supposed to talk. And I love John, believe he's been a guest on this podcast. But watching you guys interact it is so fun.
We didn't always get along well, I mean, it was when we were both on the tour together. He thought I remember he's he thought that I was fake because I wasn't completely honest and press conferences like he would say, you know, why not instead of always saying, oh, my opponent just played, well, you know, if I lost a match, why don't you just tell him how you really feel, you know? And so he we didn't always get along, and then I there are a couple of times with him, you know, when I would see him act. I mean, he was a little inappropriate at times on the court when he acted up. So we didn't go It wasn't really until honestly, until we retired and had kids. And I kind of I had to talk with him. I called him in when we were going to be working together, and I called him in a room, and I remember saying, we got to get along. I go, look, we have so much in common. Before we didn't have hardly anything in common. But now you know, we're both parents, and we're both retired, and we're in a new profession. And so it's been like fifteen years or twenty years since I because I work with him for NBC as well as ESPN, and so we work together a lot. And now I see the softer side. As you see, there's a real soft side to him and a very a very caring side to him. He just he just has to trust you. You know, you have to, you have to pass the test. But you know there's a very but lovable John Macaron. As he gets older, he's you know, he gets more and more relaxed. I think that helps, and not threatened by people and not combative, and you know he's he's become, you know, really a calmer person.
Getting to work with both you and John is such a privilege in a treat and I'll have stories for life from that. Well, you guys share in common though, Chris, he is both you and on We're at the absolute top of your sport, but also were at the top of a second profession, tennis broadcasting, And I wonder if you have some appreciation for how remarkable that is and the pride you take in that because they're related. Of course, you guys are talking about your experience on the court, and that's part of your renouncing, but the jobs themselves are very different. So to get to where you are in the broadcasting business and for have it be for decades and different continence recognized. I mean, I know that John will never feel like broadcasting is as big a deal as playing, but I think he appreciates being recognized for what he's done on TV. I hope you do too, Yeah, I mean.
John, I mean, he's hired by everybody, so he better recognize that. Everybody wants, you know, he's They love his personality. I do. I was thrown into NBC the year after I retired, and I remember Jimmy Connors and I were doing the tennis and we're both horrible. We're both horrible. It was it was no it was the comments, like you know, that was a good down the line shot and that you know, she's got to get her first serve in, and uh, you know it just it was so surface and we got no training. I mean we know it to really nobody kind of guided us. And I think right after your your right after you retire, you know, maybe I needed to breathe. But I was I was really bad. I was awful. So then fast forward, fast forward, like twenty years later, when ESPN was interested in me, what I think the reason why. Look, I don't know if I'm any good, but I mean I'm not bad. I wouldn't be bad. I wouldn't be working. So I think the reason why I improved was the fact that I have a task academy. I have a task academy. I'm there every day. You know, I was there every day, and I learned. I relearned the techechnique. I relearned. You know, it's a new game. It's Western forehands, it's open stance, it's it's not the same game as when I was playing. So I relearned that I watched the kids play tournaments. I'd see that the pros would come in. You know, we we helped mass and Keys and Alatamyanovich and we helped certain players don avickage, so the pros would come in and I'd watch them train, and so I kind of got I was like getting an education by going to my task academy, and I think that kind of made my commentating maybe a little deeper and a little more informative. And of course I feel like I can talk about the mental side with my eyes closed, but the physical shot making was what was different, and I had to so I had to relearn the game.
Well that's awesome. That's that's a lot of humility that you've expressed there. I do want to get back to the for Tennis Academy later on, because that's a very important part of your life being around the game, whether it's the pros you mentioned or the young kids who are just trying to get better. I want to circle back to that. But you talked about the mental side. I mean, I think it's tough. Sometimes we're an all time great. You never choked and you rarely made mistakes in big moments, but that's not the reality for most of the players that we talk about. So the challenge of relating to those you know, fallible human emotions. For you, I can see sometimes it just doesn't compute. She needs to just just stop missing. Just stop missing shots. Cut down in your errors. Easy to say, chrisy hard for most players.
You sound like my brother John, who he manages the academy and we will sit there, we'll watch a junior play and I'll say, Okay, she had three balls in the bomb of the net in a row, and he'll go, Chrissy, he goes, you're wired differently, stop it. You've won ninety thousand matches. You know you're different. And I promise you. My whole thing, even to this day is when I look at these kids, is I still feel the player that makes less errors is going to have like an eighty percent chance of winning the match. I think that carries over with juniors and pros. So I've always been a real fan of not making errors. But yes, I've had to adjust my thinking. And now it's like, you know, I tell that, I tell our girls, you know, hit down the middle, just it just hit down the middle, you know, make the court small, you know.
So I think consistency is just undervalue because people, it is, don't worry about missing. They go for shots. That's the modern power game. They on both the women's and the men's side, and the errors pile up, and they're willing to live with that because it's power. You got to hit, make the first strike, and so we don't see the consistency is not even taught at this point.
Look, when you're inside the bay and you've got some sitters, you go for it. Okay, you pull the trigger. When you're six feet behind the baseline, you don't pull the trigger. I mean, it's kind of common sense. And I think maybe growing up on play, I had that that. I think I had that anticipation or I had that naturally that feeling of when when to go flour shots and when to hold back. I mean that came pretty easy to me. But it's like, you got to keep the court smaller, you've got to have big targets. You've got to keep hitting the ball with acceleration and spin. You know, it's there's like two or three easy things you've got to move and you know, I think people forget the fundamentals. People forget the most important simple things. They coaches have to keep it simple with these kids.
We've talked a little bit about the ESPN Tennis family, and I'd like you to ress what that's meant to you, Because I come into this from other sports. In two thousand and three, began working with a lot of the folks we talked about as well as Mary Joe Fernandez and Pam Shriver and Patrick McEnroe and Darren Cahle and Brad Gilbert and now James Blake and others, and for a bunch of folks that came into this from a purely individual sport where you are your boss of your team if you even have a team, but you are solely responsible for most things in your career and you're out there by yourself, and it is not a team sport, and now broadcasting, which is very much a team sport. You have to come together and sort of share the assignments and get along and try not to be envious and try not to be jealous of what someone else is doing. And it's pretty remarkable. I think that it's a source of like endless gratitude for me, Chrissy to work with you and this team. I know it's been really really important to you. What's meant the friendships over the years.
Yeah, it's you have to leave your ego at the door, so to speak. You know, and you really, you really do. And I think that when you come from an individual sport, you kind of have that that ego. I mean, I I think what I've realized is after retiring and after like living my life that everybody thought, you know, you know, you're so humble and you know you really handle things well and this and that. Yeah, I have. But I also there's also entitlement, and there there is an ego, and your ego's big. And I think in the beginning, maybe maybe I was even looking around to see who what assignments other people were getting. I'm sure I did, and now I'm not sure I did. I did, and and now it's it's like when you feel comfortable that you're doing a good job, then you know it doesn't matter what assignment you get. It doesn't matter what other people are getting. It's you just want to root for them as well. And you want the team aspect. You want the team to look good, you want ESPN Tennis to get some awards, and you want people to talk about the ESPN team, you know, just as much as you want them to talk about you individually. So it's been growing, you know, it's been growth for me to be on team because I know, because tennis, God, you got to be selfish, so self absorbed and think about yourself. But in this team aspect, you you stand out like a sore thumb, and everybody knows if you think about yourself, everybody knows. So it's but do we have a we have a great team. We have so many, so many different personalities from Brad Gilbert to John McEnroe, from Pam to me, you know, I mean you just everybody's so different, and I think that that adds to the the color and the commentating.
Yeah, perfectly said. It's a sport where people gravitate because they don't want to share the ball. As you said, individual sport athletes fend for themselves and they don't have to be part of a team, and a lot of them like that a lot. When you come into TV, you're much in a team and you do have to share the ball. You do have to get along and go out to dinner, and whether you're in Melbourne, Australia in the summer down there going to restaurants and hanging out and then the trailer or Wimbledon, you know, in the little village where tennis just takes over this Wimbledon village and the commentators are all over the place, and yeah, it's a much nicer experience if you do really not just respect, but enjoy the company of the people that you work with. And so we're lucky.
And to even take it one step further, you know, I, you know, I like it when Tennis Channel and NBC and ESPN and Eurosport. I like it when everybody feels that they're in this together and there's no jealousy and there's no competition and there's nowhere better than you. You know, I take it a step further, and I, you know, I celebrate the other commentators from other networks as well, and that's I've had to learn, you know, I've done that, and I think we all, we're all, we all should feel proud that we're representing the sport and we're explaining what's going on to the spectators. And I think that's, you know, very important.
I know we've spoken and you said that that ESPN Tennis team has been important to you in recent months and years in your life. As most people will know, well, you've battled the hell out of cancer and you've suffered loss your sister Jeanie battle of arian cancer for a couple of years and passed away early in twenty twenty. And it was through her sad passage that you're able to become aware of your own issues and your own risks. So you've shared some of the story, Chris, I've been very open and courageous, and I think inspired a lot of people the way you've been so transparent about it. But let's begin with Genie and what you saw your dear sister, who was also a professional tennis player by the way, in her time, go through and how that changed you even before you you had to battle cancer yourself.
Yeah, and I talk about how we discovered it because you know, I don't think gene would mind me talking about her journey, and because I think that people will it's good information. But I was going to Singapore and I invited my sister Genie to come along. She's two years younger than me, and I was kind of we're late. So I was running to the gate and I look behind and she's walking fast, and she's huffing and puffing. And this was I think November, and I said, Genie, come on, we got to go down her. She goes wait, I just just had a breath. And so we got on the airplane and I said, okay, because yeah, I just think I have like a I think I had a chest infection, you know, last week, and I'm just getting over it. And I go okay. So we landed in Singapore and then we went to the gym the next morning and she couldn't even walk fast on the treadmill. And I looked at her and I said, are you how are you feeling. She goes huffing and puffing, I'm just out of breath. And I go, okay. This was like on a Wednesday, and we were going to be home on Monday, and I said, you called your doctor right now, and on Monday you get an appointment. And I go, this isn't this isn't good. And furthermore, when I looked at her body, it was a little, you know, it was a little swollen around the stomach area, and it just it didn't look like her. So I go Genie, and she goes, I'm going to go the doctor. Okay. So we go home and she went to the doctor, and you know, within a week, she had like stage four. They announced that she had stage four of airing cancer and meaning that it had spread to other organs. So you know, they put her on chemoth therapy and they they took a blood test to see if she had the broka, the positive Broca gene, and ironically enough, the test result came out negative, so she didn't have the broco gene, but she had a she had a variant of uncertain significance. And that's very those two words, uncertain significance, which ninety five percent of the time turned out to be normal, but basically it means it hasn't been tested enough. So she had that, but she was so the doctor said, you don't have to be tessecrasy, you know, and your your siblings don't have to be testicas genies she's she's negative. So Genie went through a two year horrible I mean it was chemotherapy. Then it was you know, she she had she tried, they doctors tried everything. I mean they tried everything. She was but it was it's insidious ovarian cancer because you don't it just it kills you. If you're if you're stage three or four, it's it's dismal. You know, you don't have a good chance. So she passed away two years later, and you know, we were all with her very She's so brave, you know, never complained, never complained, but she had She just was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful person, put everybody before her. So consequently, after her death, like you said, twenty twenty, I got a year later, year or two years later, I got a phone call from the hospital and it was a geneticist, a genetic doctor, and they said, Chrissy, we want to inform you that remember Jeanie carried that variant, that variant that we were unsure about that normally ninety five percent of the time would be normal. Well that has turned cancerous, and that Genie would have the brock A gene. Right now she would be brock A positive. So we advise you and your siblings to get tested. I got tested the next day. I was brock A positive. I was brock A positive, and I'm like, are you kidding me? So, you know, right right away, within a month I had my doctor said let's be proactive. Let's just go in and have the hysterectomy. Let's not even think about Ovary's out. Let's just get the whole thing out. You know, you've had kids. You don't need to worry about anything. Just get it out. So had a total hysterectomy, and it was supposed to be you know, proactive, and we were supposed to look ahead and nothing was supposed to be there. And all of a sudden, my doctor, you know, said the operation went well. Three days later he came back and he said, but you know what, we found out that you have cancer in your fallopian tubes and you have cancer and your ovaries as well, so we want to go in again. And they went in ten days later to make sure to see if the lymph nodes and all the organs around if I had if it had spread. So, Chris, it was a matter of me for those three days, I was either going to be stage one or basically stage four.
M This is a matter of three weeks, Chrissy. You're talking about thinking that that that rockavariant was not going to be a part of your life, to getting that news, to having a hysterectomy, to getting this other news going back. I mean, what an incredibly terrifying but brief period of time all this unfolded in.
Yeah, I think that for those three days I I hibernated. I just you know, I didn't tell I told my family, but I just isolated myself and just try to be positive, think positive thoughts and and just take deep breaths.
And it was.
It was probably the probably the worst three days of my life. And then lo and behold. Three days later, my doctor called me said, you're clear. I sent I said, could I have the Could I have all the results because I would like to send them to another hospital too. I wanted a second, third opinion. I had three opinions. They I had three different doctors to look at the slides to make sure that I was clear, and they all said I was clear. So that put me at stage one ovarian cancer and I had to do six bouts of chemotherapy. So that's that's really the story. And I say, my sister saved my life at her expense, and it's just it's a horrible I was at her expense. But if Genie, you know, Genie, I don't know. I hate to say it. I hate to even think about it. Genie hadn't had it, you know, my doctor said. My doctor said that this was December that I had a double that I had hysterectomy, and my doctor said that if it had been April, four months down the road, it would have been for stage four.
Yeah, as awful as it is to lose's sister, that's beyond our control. You did say that you thought that Genie's journey ended up saving your life. It did no way, because it made you aware.
Well it did I and you know what, thank God for genetic testing. Genetic testing saved my life as well. That's why if I'm going to have a message for anybody, it's if you have you have to know your family history, because if you have anything, if you have any genetic history, and this is not even cancer, this is heart disease, this is diabetes, these are other things as well, you better get checked. You better get blood work, and you better get checked and before it's too late. So so anyway, just to continue that, that was half the battle with Braca. With the positive Broca gene, you you have like a sixty percent chance of getting ovarian cancer and you have seventy five percent chance of getting breast cancer. So I had a decision to make either take a chance, not do anything with the breasts, just get them checked like three times a year and hope for the best. My doctor said, well, he goes, you can do that, but then you if you have cancer, you have to go through chemotherapy again and you have to have another operation, and he goes. You know, they advise like ninety percent of the doctor's advice to get a double mass sectomy if you have the brock up postave gene. So that was my route. That was my my journey, which just happened, you know, really in the last six months. That's what's been going on with me.
Yeah, it's a decision based on the odds seventy a half percent or not good odds obviously, so it's a prudent choice, but still you're you're you're electing to have surgery proactively through reuse risk. It's it's still got to a little bit scary, I mean, and then to go through that process, which so many women bravely do, and then the reconstructor process after it. Yeah, it's a point in which I masking MS say when is this going to end? When is it when I'm I have like a normal day.
I know, it's it was a sixteen month journey. I'm three months three weeks out I had my last surgery on my breast three weeks ago, and you know, now I'm you know, there's nowhere to go but up. And I still have to, like three times a year go to my you know, gynecologist and get checked and take my blood and do all that. I mean, the first five years are crucial, you know, after you've been diagnosed with cancer.
As we get older, it's more important to get as much information as we can, no matter how potentially scary that information is. You said earlier, know your family history. What other messages you have for people, Christy when it comes to looking out for their health and also dealing with the bad news you know when it comes.
Well, I mean, look, you should always get your annual exams. I mean for a woman, that's you know, you have to get your breast checked once a year anyway. You get a colonoscopy if you have especially if you have colon cancer in your family. So you make your medical appointments. But the other thing is, if you feel anything different going on in your body internally, don't wait three months, go and wait three days and then go, Look, you what's the worst thing that can happen? You're a hypochondriac. I mean, you know, just if you feel anything different, if you feel more tired, or if you're if you have bleeding anywhere, or any kind of difference in your body, just get it taken care of right away. I think that I've learned, and I tell I've told my gosh, I've I have two or three friends that have gotten genetic testing and with not good results since this happened. And only twenty percent of people, because men can get can be brocke too, which is chess. Also, only twenty percent of people who have who are brock A positive know it. What does that tell you?
Percent of walking around on borrow time when they don't know it?
Yeah, but we talk about even even heart diseasease. Probably ninety percent of people are walking around with high blood pressure and don't know it. Right, you know?
So how has how has cancer changed you?
I'm more in the moment. I'm more in the moment now. I take deep breaths more and and appreciate it. Talk to myself about appreciation and about gratitude. I'm more aware. I think I'm more aware of things in life now. I mean, it really it opens your eyes. I mean, people have written millions of books about this, what happens when you when you have cancer? How do you feel differently? Just more I think more awareness, more attitude, and appreciating that I still have this moment. But you know, I still have that. I still the fear creeps in sometimes because I'm sixty eight years old and it doesn't have as much to do. Well. You always think you're going to My parents both live to ninety, so you always think, oh, you still have you know, you still have a good portion of your life to live. But I think when you get older and you've had cancer, you know, you think about death more often as well.
I've always admired that you are such a strong, resilient person and that that has had to be on display you lose your dad. Jimmy. We talked about that Genie's passing and was told to me by others in your family that Chrissy was always the one in the family that others would look too for strength. You would be the rock around which others would sort of gain strength from and galvanized. So when you were the one that was facing potentially grave situation and having to be the vulnerable one, for some of us, that's not a very comfortable position. You'd rather sort of be the one trying to give strength to the one getting empathy. How was that just opening yourself up and being, you know, vulnerable, not just to the friends and family around you, but also the members of the of the public.
Well, I'm really lucky that my sister Claire was there for me. You know, my sister. I had two sisters and they are my best friends. Jeanie passed away and so I have Claire. She was with me for all my chemos. Andy, my ex husband, took me to all my chemos and lucky to have him my kids. I mean, I'm lucky. You rely on your family, But at the same time, they have a life too, and I think, you know, then all of a sudden they'll stay for three days and then leave, and I think you're alone. You know I'm alone. I was alone in the house and and I'm thinking, you only have yourself to rely on. Really, I mean, you can get comfort. People are great, but at the end of the day, it's what's inside of yourself that you you know, the feelings that you feel, and.
You could project feelings Christy, but when you look in the mirror and it's just you in the mirror. Sometimes it's hard to hide from that, and that's where you have to look, and you look at yourself and and what what did you tell yourself when you saw yourself in the mirror and your face and that stuff.
What did I tell myself? I think, I think and Andy and I talked about this a lot. I guess I I think about after, you know, I just think about how I screwed up my personal life and how I after tennis. You know, I did feel I had entitlement and with with with personal relationships, and you know, I think, I think I really came to a moment of realizing my mistakes and my poor choices and more than more than my great choices and my great wins. You know, it just came to God. You know, this is life. That Tennis that was, you know, that was like a third of my life. But it's not really about relationships. It's not really about love. It's not really about you know, humanity as much as when you retire from tennis and you have kids and you get married, and you know, I just I think, I look, I did a whole three month intense imprint therapy where I had a woman on you know, she was a therapist, and she was. We went right from day one of my life right up until now. And you know, and I realize that success and fame, you know that they can be toxic and they can it can hurt you when you have people telling you how great you are for since you've been a kid fifteen years old. You know, deep inside, that's where you start to get a little entitlement, and then you know, you make some bad decisions. And I think I started so I kind of realized that, you know, the reality of my life and my choices.
That's tough stuff to have to deal with. Tough, but then you come out of it and you're laughing about it. You come out of it. I assume changed improved with a better perspective in the terms we've worked. Since you've come back from cancer, I've noticed a little difference. There's a lightness to it. Maybe we all understand that the calling a tennis match isn't the most damn important thing in the world. When you face what you face and you know that perfection is is it the goal and needn't be an obsession because you've been shown what the really important stuff is. And maybe learn what isn't so important.
Yeah, I think I think it's it's.
You got even better than you were before. By the way, as a commentary, I think this had an effect of sort of just I don't know if it's if loosening up. These are my words, not yours, but I just sense all of difference in how you sort of approach the day to day.
Well, I try to. You know, look, I have I've always had a little anxiety disorder and me that's another thing I've had. And I feel like I feel I feel like, you know what more after you have cancer? You know what more can they take away from you? What more can you know? This world take take take from you? I mean, and I realized that what what what you give you get back? And I realized that it's I mean, life is about more about giving. And the ego will be get in the way. And you know, but I'm sweating now thinking about it. You know, there are a lot of lessons to be learned. I mean, this is this is like for a book. There's just or a ten hour session with you. I mean, there are a lot of lessons to be learned.
We don't stop learning, that's for sure. We don't stop learning and hopefully, if we're lucky, until our last day. And I thank you for sharing what you did there. It's obviously it's just the surface, but it's powerful stuff. And the way that you've handled it about your business and then been open about it is enormously valuable and important in being able to inspire people who have admired you, but just making them aware of things that would never have occurred to them. And say, if Chrissy is telling me this, then it means something. If she dealt with it and it helped her, that means something to me. So don't ever underestimate the power of your example, Chrissy, and message right.
And I know, look, I think that I'm more open Like you said, I think I'm more open to talking about my wrong choices as well. And these are the to help people also like these. This is what you can fall into. This is you know what happens if you I just think, I just think. You know, when you have fame and fortune, I just it's just it prevents you from really being a normal, down to earth person in a lot of ways. You know, it really does. And because yes we have to work hard on the court, but off the court. Things are given to us. We have suites at hotels, you know, we we have room service, we have people giving us gifts, we have wonderful articles written about I mean, we have endorsements, we have money. You know, it's just everything's given. Everything's given to us. And I don't know, that's just not that's not real life. You pay a price for everything.
Chris faller Well said, Chrissy, I'm always open to your wisdom, and believe me you cancer is something that you and your longtime rival Martina and Averageleovo also have in common. So I know you guys would also be a ten hour podcast to describe your relationship and your rivalry. I get that we don't have time for that, but you know you have been a dear friend to her from a relationship that I'm sure was tense, that you guys faced off eighty times eighty times at one point, you win fifteen straight majors between you. The stats are mind boggling. When the WTA rankings came into play in seventy five, the first six hundred and fifteen weeks of the rankings, you are Martine of A ranked number one for five hundred and ninety two of six fifteen and the other one was probably number two at the time. So you guys are incredibly linked, more than any two I would say athletes in the history of any sport. And you've become friends. And how has that relationship been impacted by the fact that Martina in recent months and years has been battling breast cancer and also a throat cancer. But she says she's now cancer free, thank god.
Yeah, yeah, she she also had stage one, you know, thank god. Like you said, you know, we got Look, you're right. I mean it was tense for a while. I mean we played for eighteen years against each other, so it was definitely tense for a while. Our relationship was up and down, and there were some jealousies and with both of us and really competitiveness, and you know, that's the tough thing about being an individual sport. But at the end of our careers, middle to the end, we just got really close because we are the only ones in the locker room every Sunday, and so one of us was always comforting the other one. And it was beautiful. It was beautiful. And I think we got to the stage when we got to our late twenties early thirties that we didn't feel threatened by the other person. We realized that what we had together, the rivalry, was really special in tennis look, and it couldn't have been better. We were totally the opposite, I mean in everything from the way we play, to our personality, to our visions and life and whatever. So we both have a place in Aspen, and we both have a place in South Florida. I mean, we ended up we're living in the same towns. And then we get our cancers overlap. You know. I had it first, and she came to the house. It was very supportive. And then she called me and said, call me asap. And I knew something was wrong, and knew that she never calls and says that. And she told me the double whammy of the throat and the breast, and she goes, can you believe it? She was. She was more mad than anything. I think she was just mad, you know. And and I really to see what she went through. She had radiation and chemotherapy, and it made us closer. You know, we kept in touch, and we we just we kind of laugh that it's so ironic that these things happened to both of us At pretty much the same time, and she she I feel like I have a more kind of methodical kind of attitude about you know, I'm taking one day at a time. I'm getting my energy back, you know, every day. With Martina, it was like it was like no, just keeping I mean, she was skiing and Aspen last week while she's still going through radiation. You know, she was skiing and she's going out to dinner and she's she's damned leus cancer. You know, this isn't going to stop me. And she just she's very aggressive with her with her approach to it, and I just, you know, again, we're different. You know, I just have to laugh about it.
Yeah, Well, there's different ways to attack it, and that's each person's personal choice. But are you allowed to give your advice because your personalities we're so different. You have being been through it a little bit, uh for a longer period of time. Do you share it? And is she receptive to it?
Well, you know, she had ship breast cancer before this, so she actually went through this before I even I did one thing about Martina and I, because we're so different, we've learned a lot from each other, you know, We've learned about how the other the other side lives, and what the other side thinks and what I mean. This is a woman who came from a communist country, checks pocket, who's defected at a young age, and and her lifestyle is different than mine, and her the way she plays tennis, her approach to life, her mindset is a little different. You know, we're so we're different, but we share a lot, share a lot in common. You know, we've been number one in the world, and we've you know, been heroes to a lot of people, and we've had cancer and we've had, you know, ups and downs in our relationships. I always kidder because I go, you know, people give me a hard time because I've been married three times. I said, I can count, like I knew twelve girlfriends that you had. I go, and I don't even know how many you married, but I can name them right now, I go, what do they give you a hard time? You know?
So we will stay out of the relationship area for both of you. This podcast, as you said, we could do three separate ten hour shows and the various things. Well, it's been delightful. I mean, thanks again for sharing so much of your life and your wisdom and your experiences from a young age to where we sit here now. I hope we can get together at Wimbledon. And it's so hard to sho share meals. As you point out, we don't get everybody's got their own schedule, and I hope we can have the opportunity to sit in a nice small restit in Wimblin with a bunch of our friends at ESPN and get loud and get shushed again. That's that's my that's my hope.
Well, thank you. Thank you for being a mentor to me when it comes to the broadcasting, because I didn't you know, I was the new kid ten twelve years ago and you've really been I just respect your work so much that I love working with you, Chris, so thank you.
That's very kind. You know you have to be on your a game. You know how nervous you make people work a match with you when they haven't done so before. One of the younger announcements of churse just just so you know, be understanding with them because you get a little nervous when you're in their presence within this booth.
Yes, yes, no, I enjoyed it. Thank you for opening me up and I hope that people can get the message about their health, to know their family history and to really be their own advocate of their own body.
Is such a powerful message, and I'm grateful to Chrissy for sharing it and for really opening up during our conversation. She also told me that her family at the Ever Tennis Academy in Boca, her brother John, the coaches there, the young players were so crucial to her as she was going through cancer treatment and recovering from surgeries. That gave her a loving support group, some place to go every day that she was able to and just be surrounded by the sport that she loves. Can't wait to reunite with Chrissy and our ESPN Tennis team at Wimbledon in July. In the meantime, this is the final episode of Follower, Who You Got? Season six. It's a shorter season than usual, and there's some good reasons for that. Headed off to Nepal with my brother Drew for a couple weeks of trekking and climbing in the Koumbu region around Everest, twenty five years after our first life changing trip there. If this kind of thing interests you, the was Vietna episode two of this season, we talk a lot about the Himalayas, and then Jennifer and I are headed off to celebrate our twentieth wedding anniversary. On our twenty third anniversary back we honeymooned in Africa. The trip has been postponed three years by various world events, but finally we are going to get to Africa. I want to thank Jennifer, my co executive producer on this podcast for all six seasons. It's my voice you hear, but her many talents and skills are a massive part of every single episode, every facet of the episode, and am filled with gratitude for that. Also want to thank the folks at Octagon for helping put together this podcast, and mostly thank all of you for finding and listening to this podcast and giving us such wonderful feedback. There are many great episodes that are archive. You invite you to check those out over on Hiatus. Everyone has a story and all of them are compelling, so enjoy that. Be well, I'll talk to you soon
