Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Vision Australia Radio 1190 7 a.m. and Adelaide online at Via radio VA, Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin to the tune in radio up look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide your favourite podcast or streaming service. We're also founders Peter Greco on behalf of Phillip Napier and a big cheerio to Wendy McDougall listening in. Had a great chat to Wendy on her birthday. So happy birthday Wendy again. Thanks for listening in. Peter Greco saying great to be here. This program coming to you from Ghana land come to you very, very shortly. We'll catch up with Daryl Davenport. I am recognized for his work in the sport of para dancing. Wonderful recognition. We'll catch up with Daryl, then speak to Fear dance from China, kids from Thailand who will tell us about their 25 year celebration with an album. We'll hear about that. We'll also catch up with Madoka da Silva, who's a PhD student who is looking to do more research into movement and death for people who are blind or have low vision. And then Phil will join us, co founder and co-presenter of Focal Point. Always lots of food to talk about. Look forward to joining him in the next 60 minutes. If you're listening through 1190 7 a.m. Nightline at 8:00 for your listening pleasure. Lizzy and Sam are here with Studio One. Just before we hear what's on their program newsroom from the Adelaide branch or the SA branch of Blind Singers Australia, their next catch up, their first one for the year, is coming up on Saturday the 22nd of February. It's a different places that the green Tea House, 22 Jetty Road at Glenelg. If you'd like to go along one 800 Zero. Double three. 660 gets underway about 1230. Get in touch with Kerri Skipworth. One 800 0360. That's Saturday, February the 22nd. 12:30. 22 Jetty Road, Glenelg. The green tea house and a wonderful news with the South Australia runners up in the National Cricket Inclusion Carnival. Congratulations to the New South Wales for taking that out. Congratulations also to Reuben Fairbank, Lachlan Morris and Michael Zannis, as well as the very honorable mention to Aaron Law for their representation in the Championship team for Australia. What's on studio one tonight? Lizzie and Sam.

Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Vision Australia Radio 1190 7 a.m. and Adelaide online at Via radio VA, Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin to the tune in radio up look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide your favourite podcast or streaming service. We're also founders Peter Greco on behalf of Phillip Napier and a big cheerio to Wendy McDougall listening in. Had a great chat to Wendy on her birthday. So happy birthday Wendy again. Thanks for listening in. Peter Greco saying great to be here. This program coming to you from Ghana land come to you very, very shortly. We'll catch up with Daryl Davenport. I am recognized for his work in the sport of para dancing. Wonderful recognition. We'll catch up with Daryl, then speak to Fear dance from China, kids from Thailand who will tell us about their 25 year celebration with an album. We'll hear about that. We'll also catch up with Madoka da Silva, who's a PhD student who is looking to do more research into movement and death for people who are blind or have low vision. And then Phil will join us, co founder and co-presenter of Focal Point. Always lots of food to talk about. Look forward to joining him in the next 60 minutes. If you're listening through 1190 7 a.m. Nightline at 8:00 for your listening pleasure. Lizzy and Sam are here with Studio One. Just before we hear what's on their program newsroom from the Adelaide branch or the SA branch of Blind Singers Australia, their next catch up, their first one for the year, is coming up on Saturday the 22nd of February. It's a different places that the green Tea House, 22 Jetty Road at Glenelg. If you'd like to go along one 800 Zero. Double three. 660 gets underway about 1230. Get in touch with Kerri Skipworth. One 800 0360. That's Saturday, February the 22nd. 12:30. 22 Jetty Road, Glenelg. The green tea house and a wonderful news with the South Australia runners up in the National Cricket Inclusion Carnival. Congratulations to the New South Wales for taking that out. Congratulations also to Reuben Fairbank, Lachlan Morris and Michael Zannis, as well as the very honorable mention to Aaron Law for their representation in the Championship team for Australia. What's on studio one tonight? Lizzie and Sam.

Have you ever been refused access to a rideshare or taxi because of your dog guide? Well, you're not alone. We look at the experiences of three dog guide handlers, but also see if one taxi company has found the solution.

Have you ever been refused access to a rideshare or taxi because of your dog guide? Well, you're not alone. We look at the experiences of three dog guide handlers, but also see if one taxi company has found the solution.

So join us at eight for studio one.

So join us at eight for studio one.

Well, a wonderful weekend for our Australian of the year awards and receiving an OAM for their work in the area of dance, sport and particularly for people blind or low vision and people who are deaf was Daryl Davenport OAM. Daryl welcome and congratulations. Thank you.

Well, a wonderful weekend for our Australian of the year awards and receiving an OAM for their work in the area of dance, sport and particularly for people blind or low vision and people who are deaf was Daryl Davenport OAM. Daryl welcome and congratulations. Thank you.

Peter. It was it was a real real honour and quite unexpected.

Peter. It was it was a real real honour and quite unexpected.

Was it a surprise. Did you have any inkling.

Was it a surprise. Did you have any inkling.

Yes it was a surprise. It was so that was terrific news.

Yes it was a surprise. It was so that was terrific news.

That's a bit about your involvement. I know we spoke you in the past, but how did you get involved with dance sport? And then to particularly get people who are blind or low vision and people who are deaf involved. How did that all happen?

That's a bit about your involvement. I know we spoke you in the past, but how did you get involved with dance sport? And then to particularly get people who are blind or low vision and people who are deaf involved. How did that all happen?

Thank you very much, Peter. Um, so I've been dancing, um, for over 50 years. Um, I did start as a seven year old, and in more recent times, in 2017, I decided to move into the area of, um, dancing for people with disabilities. And, um, that led me through to, uh, lessons for, uh, wheelchair users, for people with intellectual disabilities or hard of hearing. And of course, for blind and low vision.

Thank you very much, Peter. Um, so I've been dancing, um, for over 50 years. Um, I did start as a seven year old, and in more recent times, in 2017, I decided to move into the area of, um, dancing for people with disabilities. And, um, that led me through to, uh, lessons for, uh, wheelchair users, for people with intellectual disabilities or hard of hearing. And of course, for blind and low vision.

And how did that happen? Was it sort of by accident, or did you go out looking for it? How did that happen?

And how did that happen? Was it sort of by accident, or did you go out looking for it? How did that happen?

Sure. Well, my father took ill in 2017 with pancreatic cancer. And up till then, I had been purely a competitive dance sport coach. And really, I was absolutely impressed with the community service that the silver chain and that the palliative care nurses gave. And it really made me want to give back to the community. And um, being that I was a dance coach, I thought, well, this is one way I can give back to the community by providing dance classes to people that otherwise might not have the opportunity.

Sure. Well, my father took ill in 2017 with pancreatic cancer. And up till then, I had been purely a competitive dance sport coach. And really, I was absolutely impressed with the community service that the silver chain and that the palliative care nurses gave. And it really made me want to give back to the community. And um, being that I was a dance coach, I thought, well, this is one way I can give back to the community by providing dance classes to people that otherwise might not have the opportunity.

You're based in Perth, so, um, did you kind of. Did you kind of feel a bit like you were on your own or, uh, in terms of, uh, you know, people to talk to that might be doing a similar sort of thing or indeed, is there much out there in that sort of area that you That you were sort of going into.

You're based in Perth, so, um, did you kind of. Did you kind of feel a bit like you were on your own or, uh, in terms of, uh, you know, people to talk to that might be doing a similar sort of thing or indeed, is there much out there in that sort of area that you That you were sort of going into.

Look, there's really not much out, not much out there. I did a lot of Google searching to try and find some inspiration and find some ideas, and really we just had to, um, just give it a go and just just go with the flow. Ballroom dancing is actually quite, quite well adapted to people that are vision impaired or blind because it is a lead follow sport. So naturally you're with a partner anyway, and so that partner can guide you around the dance floor.

Look, there's really not much out, not much out there. I did a lot of Google searching to try and find some inspiration and find some ideas, and really we just had to, um, just give it a go and just just go with the flow. Ballroom dancing is actually quite, quite well adapted to people that are vision impaired or blind because it is a lead follow sport. So naturally you're with a partner anyway, and so that partner can guide you around the dance floor.

Okay. Well, I mean, I guess that's something that you kind of can can work on as well. I mean, you know, in your case, you're doing it for 50 years. It's probably instinctive, but you're still going to do a bit of, um, if you like, um, adjusting or adapting or modifying.

Okay. Well, I mean, I guess that's something that you kind of can can work on as well. I mean, you know, in your case, you're doing it for 50 years. It's probably instinctive, but you're still going to do a bit of, um, if you like, um, adjusting or adapting or modifying.

Oh, definitely 100%. So, um, we have to use different senses in a lot of cases. So, um, we will know with the, the students permission, we might put them in, in the position physically, you know, put them in the position that we want. So it's the postural position or the wall the way we want their feet facing. Um, so we do quite a quite a bit of hands on work. Of course, there's a lot more description involved, and particularly like one of our students actually has requested. And we are able to do this, um, to have a class where she's on her own so she can hear what the teacher is saying rather than, you know, have a whole lot of noise going on. So definitely the explanation is very important.

Oh, definitely 100%. So, um, we have to use different senses in a lot of cases. So, um, we will know with the, the students permission, we might put them in, in the position physically, you know, put them in the position that we want. So it's the postural position or the wall the way we want their feet facing. Um, so we do quite a quite a bit of hands on work. Of course, there's a lot more description involved, and particularly like one of our students actually has requested. And we are able to do this, um, to have a class where she's on her own so she can hear what the teacher is saying rather than, you know, have a whole lot of noise going on. So definitely the explanation is very important.

It's a really great point you make there, because one of the things I've said many times on this program is that for a person who's blind noise. Loud noise can be quite disorientating. So if you're regardless of where you are, if there's a lot of loud noise, you can kind of not know where you are. And of course, if you're dancing to music, the music's going to maybe be a little bit of a distraction.

It's a really great point you make there, because one of the things I've said many times on this program is that for a person who's blind noise. Loud noise can be quite disorientating. So if you're regardless of where you are, if there's a lot of loud noise, you can kind of not know where you are. And of course, if you're dancing to music, the music's going to maybe be a little bit of a distraction.

Exactly. And what happens in the hall that we actually give the classes? The vision impaired class predominantly is, um, in the heron place, which is at the visibility in Perth, and it's quite a large hall, which is fantastic for goalball and, and for our group classes, but it does mean that we get quite a lot of people in that class and it can be quite noisy. So we do totally get, um, the, um, the fact that it's important that these private lessons are conducted in a quiet space and.

Exactly. And what happens in the hall that we actually give the classes? The vision impaired class predominantly is, um, in the heron place, which is at the visibility in Perth, and it's quite a large hall, which is fantastic for goalball and, and for our group classes, but it does mean that we get quite a lot of people in that class and it can be quite noisy. So we do totally get, um, the, um, the fact that it's important that these private lessons are conducted in a quiet space and.

Some people might be saying, well, you're teaching people who are deaf or hard of hearing to dance. What about, uh, sort of, uh, the, uh, adaptions you have to do for something like that? Yeah.

Some people might be saying, well, you're teaching people who are deaf or hard of hearing to dance. What about, uh, sort of, uh, the, uh, adaptions you have to do for something like that? Yeah.

So, um, very, very lucky that I have a, um, a wonderful teacher who works for me who, um, has got a, uh, a diploma in Auslan. Okay. So we're able to use Auslan in those classes, and then also we use visual aids. So we do a lot of pointing in the classes. We also use some coloured dots to uh show the different patterns of the dances. I'm actually doing a search to this year part time in Auslan. And one of our other teachers is doing a cert to an Auslan full time. So it's something that we're genuinely interested in.

So, um, very, very lucky that I have a, um, a wonderful teacher who works for me who, um, has got a, uh, a diploma in Auslan. Okay. So we're able to use Auslan in those classes, and then also we use visual aids. So we do a lot of pointing in the classes. We also use some coloured dots to uh show the different patterns of the dances. I'm actually doing a search to this year part time in Auslan. And one of our other teachers is doing a cert to an Auslan full time. So it's something that we're genuinely interested in.

A bit more about the colored dots. That's fascinating.

A bit more about the colored dots. That's fascinating.

Yeah. It is. Yeah. So this was one of the innovations that the, um, the teacher who has the diploma in Auslan. So she's very aware of, um, the different aids that people can use or, um, hard of hearing and deaf. And, uh, what she does is she actually puts the, the dots in the order that she wants the person to dance, and they have to go through the different colours and they have to memorise that pattern.

Yeah. It is. Yeah. So this was one of the innovations that the, um, the teacher who has the diploma in Auslan. So she's very aware of, um, the different aids that people can use or, um, hard of hearing and deaf. And, uh, what she does is she actually puts the, the dots in the order that she wants the person to dance, and they have to go through the different colours and they have to memorise that pattern.

Okay. What about the types of dance you talked about? Ballroom dancing. So I'm sure there's more than one type of ballroom dance.

Okay. What about the types of dance you talked about? Ballroom dancing. So I'm sure there's more than one type of ballroom dance.

Absolutely, yes. So, um, yeah, we do all the traditional, um, ballroom dances. So we would do the waltz and the tango, the quickstep, foxtrot or slow rhythm. Uh, and we do the traditional cha cha cha, rumba, samba, jive. We also do quite a few of the line dances. And with the line dances, we may have a, um, a vision impaired person. We may be holding their hand, um, so that we can do the moves alongside them. Or if it's a brand new dance for someone that's that's blind, we might do it behind them and actually, with their permission, have our hands on their hips or something like that so that we can actually guide them through through the dance. Um, because of the fact that, you know, in a line dance, you would not normally have that lead follow relationship.

Absolutely, yes. So, um, yeah, we do all the traditional, um, ballroom dances. So we would do the waltz and the tango, the quickstep, foxtrot or slow rhythm. Uh, and we do the traditional cha cha cha, rumba, samba, jive. We also do quite a few of the line dances. And with the line dances, we may have a, um, a vision impaired person. We may be holding their hand, um, so that we can do the moves alongside them. Or if it's a brand new dance for someone that's that's blind, we might do it behind them and actually, with their permission, have our hands on their hips or something like that so that we can actually guide them through through the dance. Um, because of the fact that, you know, in a line dance, you would not normally have that lead follow relationship.

I guess people learn at different speeds depending on, well, however good or not so good they are picking up, uh, tips and tricks and, you know, taking in the information that you're sharing.

I guess people learn at different speeds depending on, well, however good or not so good they are picking up, uh, tips and tricks and, you know, taking in the information that you're sharing.

Yes. But can I actually say that, um, people that are blind have an intuition, um, with touch a little bit better possibly than we vision impaired that there aren't vision impaired, I should say do. And they follow extremely well. So people that are vision impaired I guess are used to their, their com guides and they're used to, um, different, you know, whether it's a, um, a guide dog or a stick. They're used to using different aids in order to get around. So they're actually very adaptable to following us. And actually I think pick up quite well.

Yes. But can I actually say that, um, people that are blind have an intuition, um, with touch a little bit better possibly than we vision impaired that there aren't vision impaired, I should say do. And they follow extremely well. So people that are vision impaired I guess are used to their, their com guides and they're used to, um, different, you know, whether it's a, um, a guide dog or a stick. They're used to using different aids in order to get around. So they're actually very adaptable to following us. And actually I think pick up quite well.

What about people who use wheelchairs. Tell us a bit about that.

What about people who use wheelchairs. Tell us a bit about that.

Yes, certainly. So that's what we call para dance. And what we do is we again adapt the dancers to, um, to a couple where we'll have one in a wheelchair seated and then one standing. We do all the traditional dances just the same as we would with any other ballroom dancing couple. And, um, we adapt the dances so that they can actually, as much as possible, emulate the traditional waltz or traditional tango. I personally feel the para dance is very beautiful, because it's a lovely combination between ice skating and ballroom dancing, because the lovely glide that they really glide very gracefully across the floor.

Yes, certainly. So that's what we call para dance. And what we do is we again adapt the dancers to, um, to a couple where we'll have one in a wheelchair seated and then one standing. We do all the traditional dances just the same as we would with any other ballroom dancing couple. And, um, we adapt the dances so that they can actually, as much as possible, emulate the traditional waltz or traditional tango. I personally feel the para dance is very beautiful, because it's a lovely combination between ice skating and ballroom dancing, because the lovely glide that they really glide very gracefully across the floor.

What sort of a chair would they use? Because we hear about different chairs for different sports, etc.. What about for dancing?

What sort of a chair would they use? Because we hear about different chairs for different sports, etc.. What about for dancing?

Yeah, they use a traditional, um, multi sports wheelchair. Um, it's similar to similar to what the tennis players use, um, which people are possibly more used to? It's very different to the basketball chairs or the, um, the rugby chairs. They have, um, guards around them, of course, because people are attacking you and, you know, and, um, there needs to be extra protection, whereas for the, uh, the, the yeah, the traditional sport chairs are really light and, um, although the, you know, I believe they're quite uncomfortable because they've got to be quite tight on your hips and they, you know, your your legs may not be in the right angle because the legs are normally tucked right under the chair. They do actually enable, uh, you know, the best movement and also the best partnering so that the partners can get as close to the chairs as possible.

Yeah, they use a traditional, um, multi sports wheelchair. Um, it's similar to similar to what the tennis players use, um, which people are possibly more used to? It's very different to the basketball chairs or the, um, the rugby chairs. They have, um, guards around them, of course, because people are attacking you and, you know, and, um, there needs to be extra protection, whereas for the, uh, the, the yeah, the traditional sport chairs are really light and, um, although the, you know, I believe they're quite uncomfortable because they've got to be quite tight on your hips and they, you know, your your legs may not be in the right angle because the legs are normally tucked right under the chair. They do actually enable, uh, you know, the best movement and also the best partnering so that the partners can get as close to the chairs as possible.

Yeah. Do the things that are kind of obvious, but until it's pointed at you, you know, I wouldn't have thought of it, but you pointed out so eloquently.

Yeah. Do the things that are kind of obvious, but until it's pointed at you, you know, I wouldn't have thought of it, but you pointed out so eloquently.

Yeah, yeah. Good. Yeah. So the, um, as I said, the, um, most of our dancers start in a de chair and then we'll convert across once they've actually decided that this is going to be their sport of choice. They then convert across to a multi sports chair.

Yeah, yeah. Good. Yeah. So the, um, as I said, the, um, most of our dancers start in a de chair and then we'll convert across once they've actually decided that this is going to be their sport of choice. They then convert across to a multi sports chair.

What about for yourself? As you said, you've been competing and dancing for a long time. And teaching when it comes to a sort of changing your approach. Uh, people who are deaf, people who are blind, people in wheelchairs, people with an intellectual disability. How is that kind of changed you or maybe changed your brain as far as how you teach that skill? Yeah.

What about for yourself? As you said, you've been competing and dancing for a long time. And teaching when it comes to a sort of changing your approach. Uh, people who are deaf, people who are blind, people in wheelchairs, people with an intellectual disability. How is that kind of changed you or maybe changed your brain as far as how you teach that skill? Yeah.

Look, I really enjoy the challenge and actually think you've probably you've you've got to actually be a good teacher to be able to adapt the, I guess, the theory that we learn in our technique books to other people. And so it's not just something that you can take for granted. I mean, we have some fantastic volunteers and coaches working for us, and they all have to do the same thing. We are taught a certain way to do it by the technique book, and that's what we're tested on in our theory lessons and in our theory tests. But when it comes to an adaptive sport. Um, we have to apply that knowledge and then adapt it to the person's needs. And I enjoy that challenge.

Look, I really enjoy the challenge and actually think you've probably you've you've got to actually be a good teacher to be able to adapt the, I guess, the theory that we learn in our technique books to other people. And so it's not just something that you can take for granted. I mean, we have some fantastic volunteers and coaches working for us, and they all have to do the same thing. We are taught a certain way to do it by the technique book, and that's what we're tested on in our theory lessons and in our theory tests. But when it comes to an adaptive sport. Um, we have to apply that knowledge and then adapt it to the person's needs. And I enjoy that challenge.

Yeah, I guess it's kind of, um, you know, broadening your own horizons, uh, in, in something that you've done for a long time, but maybe a different way of looking at it.

Yeah, I guess it's kind of, um, you know, broadening your own horizons, uh, in, in something that you've done for a long time, but maybe a different way of looking at it.

Yes, absolutely. And I know that the teachers that we have working for us, they also enjoy the challenge because we sort of talk about, oh, how would you do this for such and such or that for such and such? Because, you know, some people may not be able to move their arms or some people might not have a large a stack, you know, they may have some balance issues. There's all sorts of things that we have to adapt the dancing to. Um, and it may mean that we maybe take turns out for someone, we just take all the turns out of the routine, you know, or we actually just modify the routine slightly to, uh, to adapt with the, um, standing partners or the, the able body. We try and make sure that they dance as close as possible to the standard traditional technique and have the partners modify as minimal as possible, but have them modify so that they can do the dances.

Yes, absolutely. And I know that the teachers that we have working for us, they also enjoy the challenge because we sort of talk about, oh, how would you do this for such and such or that for such and such? Because, you know, some people may not be able to move their arms or some people might not have a large a stack, you know, they may have some balance issues. There's all sorts of things that we have to adapt the dancing to. Um, and it may mean that we maybe take turns out for someone, we just take all the turns out of the routine, you know, or we actually just modify the routine slightly to, uh, to adapt with the, um, standing partners or the, the able body. We try and make sure that they dance as close as possible to the standard traditional technique and have the partners modify as minimal as possible, but have them modify so that they can do the dances.

Now you've traveled internationally with this as well, haven't you?

Now you've traveled internationally with this as well, haven't you?

Yes, I have been very fortunate. So in 2003, with Para Dance, I went to a qualifying event in Tokyo and my dance partner and I qualified for the worlds. And then we did the worlds in Tokyo. But what is very exciting is we're actually taking a team of five para dancers to Hong Kong next month. Okay. Next year's World Qualifier event.

Yes, I have been very fortunate. So in 2003, with Para Dance, I went to a qualifying event in Tokyo and my dance partner and I qualified for the worlds. And then we did the worlds in Tokyo. But what is very exciting is we're actually taking a team of five para dancers to Hong Kong next month. Okay. Next year's World Qualifier event.

And they've got different disabilities or wheelchair users.

And they've got different disabilities or wheelchair users.

Look, in this particular case, it is a para dance. It is all wheelchair users. And in this particular case, four of them are spinal bifida living with spina bifida. And one has a degenerative disease where she's not been in her or condition. I should say sorry, she's not been in the wheelchair, um, all her life, but she has ended up in a wheelchair through her condition.

Look, in this particular case, it is a para dance. It is all wheelchair users. And in this particular case, four of them are spinal bifida living with spina bifida. And one has a degenerative disease where she's not been in her or condition. I should say sorry, she's not been in the wheelchair, um, all her life, but she has ended up in a wheelchair through her condition.

And without getting too controversial, what about it? Perhaps becoming a Paralympic sport? Is there any sort of movement in that area? Oh, that's.

And without getting too controversial, what about it? Perhaps becoming a Paralympic sport? Is there any sort of movement in that area? Oh, that's.

Not controversial at all. That will happen one day.

Not controversial at all. That will happen one day.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. No, they're hoping they're putting in an application for it to be included in Brisbane. Um, that'd be fantastic too, which would be wonderful. Of course, for us here in Australia, they'd, um. Well, it's the the world organisation is called, um, World Para Dance and World Para Dance put in an application to be included in the, uh, Paris Games and the in the LA games and were unsuccessful on both cases. But they have also applied the learnings that they've received from those unsuccessful applications and have been modifying the sport to ensure that it is actually acceptable for future applications.

Yeah. No, they're hoping they're putting in an application for it to be included in Brisbane. Um, that'd be fantastic too, which would be wonderful. Of course, for us here in Australia, they'd, um. Well, it's the the world organisation is called, um, World Para Dance and World Para Dance put in an application to be included in the, uh, Paris Games and the in the LA games and were unsuccessful on both cases. But they have also applied the learnings that they've received from those unsuccessful applications and have been modifying the sport to ensure that it is actually acceptable for future applications.

Well, that's very exciting.

Well, that's very exciting.

It is very exciting, for sure. Yeah, and what is very exciting actually with that is that the, um, the organization is like, is looking to actually include vision impaired. So it may that be that blind and vision impaired dancing is included at the same time, uh, at the same games.

It is very exciting, for sure. Yeah, and what is very exciting actually with that is that the, um, the organization is like, is looking to actually include vision impaired. So it may that be that blind and vision impaired dancing is included at the same time, uh, at the same games.

Well, good luck when you go to Hong Kong next month. And also, I'm sure later on you, you probably get invited to government House to officially receive your OAM. I think that's how it works.

Well, good luck when you go to Hong Kong next month. And also, I'm sure later on you, you probably get invited to government House to officially receive your OAM. I think that's how it works.

That is how it works. Yes, I haven't received the formal invite yet, but I have been told that it's likely to be in May.

That is how it works. Yes, I haven't received the formal invite yet, but I have been told that it's likely to be in May.

Terrific. Daryl, it's been great talking to you. Congratulations. What a wonderful, uplifting story. And what a great way to kind of spread the dance to all abilities. It's a it's a great thing to be doing. Keep up the great work. And obviously just in the 10 or 12 minutes that we spent, uh, spent with you, a very, very deserving winner of your time. Enjoy the moment. And thanks again for speaking to us. And, uh, I'm sure we'll speak again in the future. Wonderful.

Terrific. Daryl, it's been great talking to you. Congratulations. What a wonderful, uplifting story. And what a great way to kind of spread the dance to all abilities. It's a it's a great thing to be doing. Keep up the great work. And obviously just in the 10 or 12 minutes that we spent, uh, spent with you, a very, very deserving winner of your time. Enjoy the moment. And thanks again for speaking to us. And, uh, I'm sure we'll speak again in the future. Wonderful.

Peter, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to talk to you today.

Peter, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to talk to you today.

That's Daryl Davenport. I am now, I am after his, recognition during the Australia Day Awards last weekend for his work in the sport of dance, and off next month for some dancing tips. And who knows, maybe in 2022 representing Australia at the Paralympic Games. Here's hoping.

That's Daryl Davenport. I am now, I am after his, recognition during the Australia Day Awards last weekend for his work in the sport of dance, and off next month for some dancing tips. And who knows, maybe in 2022 representing Australia at the Paralympic Games. Here's hoping.

Hooray for sewing! Hooray for Ivan. Hooray for Liam and for Mitchell.

Hooray for sewing! Hooray for Ivan. Hooray for Liam and for Mitchell.

And for.

And for.

Jack. I bet you've got a smile on your face. Listen to that. That's the belly Landis and the cheer song. And all the way from the ballet universe is the creative director for dance for fear. Welcome. And so lovely to catch up with you again.

Jack. I bet you've got a smile on your face. Listen to that. That's the belly Landis and the cheer song. And all the way from the ballet universe is the creative director for dance for fear. Welcome. And so lovely to catch up with you again.

Yes. Thank you. Peter, it's so nice to be back.

Yes. Thank you. Peter, it's so nice to be back.

It can't be 25 years, surely.

It can't be 25 years, surely.

No, I'm still so young. I don't understand how it works.

No, I'm still so young. I don't understand how it works.

Uh, just tell us a little bit about the song, and then, I guess about the kind of project it's kind of culminated or, um, reached this 25 years. Tell us a bit about this Outside this particular song. It's got a lovely message behind it.

Uh, just tell us a little bit about the song, and then, I guess about the kind of project it's kind of culminated or, um, reached this 25 years. Tell us a bit about this Outside this particular song. It's got a lovely message behind it.

Yes, indeed. Um, it's called the Cheer Song and it is a song from our new songbook solo Kit Songbook one. We're hoping to make another one. Um, and we created the songbook because we exist 25 years, so no kids in developing our apps and software and in every single app. Um, we always have a song. And throughout the years we've written so many nice songs that always just remain inside this app or software program. And so we went back and we thought, oh, let's, let's make all these songs into an album so that children and everybody else can listen to them. And the particular song that you played, we actually celebrate all the children and young people who have helped us throughout the years in giving their feedback or testing our prototype apps or in any kind of way, and all their names are in the song. So we thank them one by one. And obviously there will be children who have more recently maybe helped us and they might not have their name in. But if you listen to the lyrics, you'll see that we still thank them a lot.

Yes, indeed. Um, it's called the Cheer Song and it is a song from our new songbook solo Kit Songbook one. We're hoping to make another one. Um, and we created the songbook because we exist 25 years, so no kids in developing our apps and software and in every single app. Um, we always have a song. And throughout the years we've written so many nice songs that always just remain inside this app or software program. And so we went back and we thought, oh, let's, let's make all these songs into an album so that children and everybody else can listen to them. And the particular song that you played, we actually celebrate all the children and young people who have helped us throughout the years in giving their feedback or testing our prototype apps or in any kind of way, and all their names are in the song. So we thank them one by one. And obviously there will be children who have more recently maybe helped us and they might not have their name in. But if you listen to the lyrics, you'll see that we still thank them a lot.

A terrific of course. It's an incredible story and we've spoken to you along the way. I mean, it's kind of making learning fun, isn't it? And it's not really learning. It's fun. And because it's fun, you're learning, if that makes any sense.

A terrific of course. It's an incredible story and we've spoken to you along the way. I mean, it's kind of making learning fun, isn't it? And it's not really learning. It's fun. And because it's fun, you're learning, if that makes any sense.

Well, it's still very important learning. But indeed, because it's fun, they want to do it again. And I think with a lot of learning, it's not a one off thing. Especially all our apps and software are aiming to develop technology skills by the students and children. So if they do it once, well, you know, they'll just scrape the surface and they don't really have a real good effective skill, but by making it into a game, they keep practicing because they keep coming back and they want to improve their score. And so they keep getting better, which makes it really a skill they can then apply in other, um, applications, more and more educational and informal environments, let's say.

Well, it's still very important learning. But indeed, because it's fun, they want to do it again. And I think with a lot of learning, it's not a one off thing. Especially all our apps and software are aiming to develop technology skills by the students and children. So if they do it once, well, you know, they'll just scrape the surface and they don't really have a real good effective skill, but by making it into a game, they keep practicing because they keep coming back and they want to improve their score. And so they keep getting better, which makes it really a skill they can then apply in other, um, applications, more and more educational and informal environments, let's say.

And one of the great things about it is the fact that because it's kind of using mainstream technology, siblings, parents, grandparents, you know, other people can kind of be part of it. And, and sort of everyone is literally included.

And one of the great things about it is the fact that because it's kind of using mainstream technology, siblings, parents, grandparents, you know, other people can kind of be part of it. And, and sort of everyone is literally included.

True. And also siblings and friends, because all the apps are fully accessible and highly focused on high quality audio. But at the same time, we have, uh, little animations and images and so that other children also enjoy being a part of it. And there are specific apps that are really like the sound memory app is something that you can do with the whole family And get beaten by the young kid who listens better. Yeah, they.

True. And also siblings and friends, because all the apps are fully accessible and highly focused on high quality audio. But at the same time, we have, uh, little animations and images and so that other children also enjoy being a part of it. And there are specific apps that are really like the sound memory app is something that you can do with the whole family And get beaten by the young kid who listens better. Yeah, they.

Come to you because I know we spoke to you in the past. You've been internationally recognized, which is tremendous. How did kind of come to you? What sort of happened that you think, well, this this is something that we can sort of take somewhere and of course, you know, literally born at the right time or the idea came about at the right time.

Come to you because I know we spoke to you in the past. You've been internationally recognized, which is tremendous. How did kind of come to you? What sort of happened that you think, well, this this is something that we can sort of take somewhere and of course, you know, literally born at the right time or the idea came about at the right time.

Well, you mean 25 years ago.

Well, you mean 25 years ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to I'll say it very shortly. Um, I was already working in education and doing things with the internet when it was just starting out. Um, I had a newspaper for children that I published, but that was before the Facebooks and Instagrams and all the social media things where I would publish news from children for children, and a parent of a girl who was blind contacted me and said that she loved the website. But could I look at accessibility of it? There was something not quite good for the screen reader. And that intrigued me and also sparked an interest in accessibility. And then I did a course at the Dutch Institute for the Blind Bartimaeus to become an accessible web developer. And yeah, that's basically where it started. I co-founded Sonar Kids with my colleague John Nergaard in Denmark, and we we are still working closely together. And it doesn't matter that I'm in Australia now and he's still in Denmark because we do everything online. And for people, it's handy because our help desk is online 24 hours, because when I log off, he logs on.

Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to I'll say it very shortly. Um, I was already working in education and doing things with the internet when it was just starting out. Um, I had a newspaper for children that I published, but that was before the Facebooks and Instagrams and all the social media things where I would publish news from children for children, and a parent of a girl who was blind contacted me and said that she loved the website. But could I look at accessibility of it? There was something not quite good for the screen reader. And that intrigued me and also sparked an interest in accessibility. And then I did a course at the Dutch Institute for the Blind Bartimaeus to become an accessible web developer. And yeah, that's basically where it started. I co-founded Sonar Kids with my colleague John Nergaard in Denmark, and we we are still working closely together. And it doesn't matter that I'm in Australia now and he's still in Denmark because we do everything online. And for people, it's handy because our help desk is online 24 hours, because when I log off, he logs on.

And as I say, the timing was perfect. And I guess, you know, it's, uh, an idea whose time had come. And yeah, you talked about, you know, before Facebook and all these other, uh, apps and, and other, um, social networking things that are out there. You kind of, well, it's kind of grown with you or you've grown with it.

And as I say, the timing was perfect. And I guess, you know, it's, uh, an idea whose time had come. And yeah, you talked about, you know, before Facebook and all these other, uh, apps and, and other, um, social networking things that are out there. You kind of, well, it's kind of grown with you or you've grown with it.

Yes. And we try to keep up with the new things. You know, we we obviously the the apps they teach you the skills to use an iPad or an iPhone with the different touch gestures. But we've moved along to to coding and computational thinking. We now have our app for sonification. I think I've spoken to you about it. Yeah. And we presented on it at 325. Um, and so that's now also implemented some sometimes into the classroom, which is wonderful. And then also going with the times, our new project is on E-safety because it's wonderful to to support children in getting skilled to, to go on the internet and to use their mobile devices to access information. And I feel that we then also have a bit of a responsibility to educate them regarding potential risks. And when we did our first initial research and asked around to people who are blind or have low vision, We believe that the general guidelines that you get from government or in schools don't take into account that you if you don't use the visual kind of tips that they give you, you can't use those guidelines. It's all very much visually oriented. The different tips and suggestions that they give you like look at the logo. Does it look like the proper logo? If not you know, red flag. Well, but what if you can't see the logo.

Yes. And we try to keep up with the new things. You know, we we obviously the the apps they teach you the skills to use an iPad or an iPhone with the different touch gestures. But we've moved along to to coding and computational thinking. We now have our app for sonification. I think I've spoken to you about it. Yeah. And we presented on it at 325. Um, and so that's now also implemented some sometimes into the classroom, which is wonderful. And then also going with the times, our new project is on E-safety because it's wonderful to to support children in getting skilled to, to go on the internet and to use their mobile devices to access information. And I feel that we then also have a bit of a responsibility to educate them regarding potential risks. And when we did our first initial research and asked around to people who are blind or have low vision, We believe that the general guidelines that you get from government or in schools don't take into account that you if you don't use the visual kind of tips that they give you, you can't use those guidelines. It's all very much visually oriented. The different tips and suggestions that they give you like look at the logo. Does it look like the proper logo? If not you know, red flag. Well, but what if you can't see the logo.

Mhm.

Mhm.

Um, and it will just tell you this is the logo. That's what they do. They, they try to scam you. So at the Spivey conference in January, uh, well, only two weeks ago, um, we, uh, had a workshop, which was very well received. Everybody was there in the room. They were so keen to participate. Parents and educators and students. There were a lot of people with lived experience in the room, and they have all given us their feedback, which we're now going to try and compile into like a research kind of thing. And then in June, I'm going to Amsterdam to the Tactile Reading Conference, and we'll do another kind of workshop there, and we're hoping to then come up with a tool again with using gamification, gamification. So it has to be part of our suite of, um, educational games. But then, you know, giving some fundamental ideas and tips for, for children and young people to know better what to look out for and what they can use, what tools they could use to identify whether something is real or not, but basically more like with the computational thinking and coding. We don't teach a specific coding language. We we teach the fundamental skills. And in this sense you can't keep up with all the scams and all the different ways they try to trick us. So it's not that we will teach a specific kind of avoidance of a particular kind of scam, but more in general, be more aware of what it could be. Or if you if this or that happens, then oh, beware. Um, take note and maybe think twice before you press a button or click a link or that sort of thing.

Um, and it will just tell you this is the logo. That's what they do. They, they try to scam you. So at the Spivey conference in January, uh, well, only two weeks ago, um, we, uh, had a workshop, which was very well received. Everybody was there in the room. They were so keen to participate. Parents and educators and students. There were a lot of people with lived experience in the room, and they have all given us their feedback, which we're now going to try and compile into like a research kind of thing. And then in June, I'm going to Amsterdam to the Tactile Reading Conference, and we'll do another kind of workshop there, and we're hoping to then come up with a tool again with using gamification, gamification. So it has to be part of our suite of, um, educational games. But then, you know, giving some fundamental ideas and tips for, for children and young people to know better what to look out for and what they can use, what tools they could use to identify whether something is real or not, but basically more like with the computational thinking and coding. We don't teach a specific coding language. We we teach the fundamental skills. And in this sense you can't keep up with all the scams and all the different ways they try to trick us. So it's not that we will teach a specific kind of avoidance of a particular kind of scam, but more in general, be more aware of what it could be. Or if you if this or that happens, then oh, beware. Um, take note and maybe think twice before you press a button or click a link or that sort of thing.

It's such an important message and you have been recognized internationally. I know you talked about, uh, John in, uh, the Netherlands working with you, but that that was nice. I remember talking to you about that recognition that you received. Yeah, that's probably more than one. I probably should be more specific as to the one I'm referring to. Was it was it called a knighthood? Was that have I got that right?

It's such an important message and you have been recognized internationally. I know you talked about, uh, John in, uh, the Netherlands working with you, but that that was nice. I remember talking to you about that recognition that you received. Yeah, that's probably more than one. I probably should be more specific as to the one I'm referring to. Was it was it called a knighthood? Was that have I got that right?

Yes. I thought I thought that's what you meant.

Yes. I thought I thought that's what you meant.

Yes. That wasn't that.

Yes. That wasn't that.

Was in 2020 already. Um, yeah. A knighthood from the King of the Netherlands, which is still, uh, extremely strange to have here in my office.

Was in 2020 already. Um, yeah. A knighthood from the King of the Netherlands, which is still, uh, extremely strange to have here in my office.

Uh, well, you certainly deserve it. And kind of the way you're thinking. You talked about, you know, 25 years ago, sort of writing for kids. So I guess you're trying to get in kids heads if you like, or trying to work out how they think, but then to kind of blend the accessibility stuff in with it. Has that been, uh, sort of an easy thing to do or. I mean, I guess the feedback from kids and others has been so vital to make that happen. Of course.

Uh, well, you certainly deserve it. And kind of the way you're thinking. You talked about, you know, 25 years ago, sort of writing for kids. So I guess you're trying to get in kids heads if you like, or trying to work out how they think, but then to kind of blend the accessibility stuff in with it. Has that been, uh, sort of an easy thing to do or. I mean, I guess the feedback from kids and others has been so vital to make that happen. Of course.

Yes. We I think we've built a lot of experience and expertise, but nevertheless, there's nobody who knows better whether it's fun or not or whether it works or not or whether the learning comes across or not, then our actual users. So we always involve them as much as we can from the start, even when we start designing things. And that's why we had our workshop to to already invite, uh, input into the idea. Like, we think this might work, but maybe people come up and the children and young people come up come up with completely different idea. And then once we make something into like a as long as it's a little bit working, we have very courageous testers who don't mind if there's a bug or something doesn't quite work. They can see through that. And um, and then they will test it and see whether we can see whether it works or not. So you're right that it's partly a long, long time experience and partly, uh, working closely together with the people who are going to use it.

Yes. We I think we've built a lot of experience and expertise, but nevertheless, there's nobody who knows better whether it's fun or not or whether it works or not or whether the learning comes across or not, then our actual users. So we always involve them as much as we can from the start, even when we start designing things. And that's why we had our workshop to to already invite, uh, input into the idea. Like, we think this might work, but maybe people come up and the children and young people come up come up with completely different idea. And then once we make something into like a as long as it's a little bit working, we have very courageous testers who don't mind if there's a bug or something doesn't quite work. They can see through that. And um, and then they will test it and see whether we can see whether it works or not. So you're right that it's partly a long, long time experience and partly, uh, working closely together with the people who are going to use it.

You might have told me this in the past. How did the, uh, sort of universe or the word belly land come about? How did that happen? Oh oh. Oh, well.

You might have told me this in the past. How did the, uh, sort of universe or the word belly land come about? How did that happen? Oh oh. Oh, well.

It's called Boley Land. I might repeat, so it's both.

It's called Boley Land. I might repeat, so it's both.

Oh, well. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, well. Yeah, yeah.

All shaped like balls. And we never realized that people with an English background would say belly land rather than Boley land, because it was spelled. He spelled it like balls. And for the first time that happened, we were like, what? But now I just have to explain it. And the children know, obviously, because they listen. All the Islanders have have a name, they have a signature sound, they have a particular character, and they live in Bullyland, which is a happy kind of world where they have their adventures and learn things, and when they learn things, the children learn things too. And maybe, if I may, share a very short anecdote from the conference, because for me, apart from from being heavily involved in organising the conference and presenting, it's a wonderful opportunity for me to talk to people. And a lot of people came up spontaneously to tell me how how happy they were with the Bullyland apps. And these were parents and educators. And one of the parents told me that the girl who was using Bullyland actually really loves Cosmoball, which is the astronaut and in the classroom, had asked the teacher to do something about space. And then she knew the answers to the questions of the teacher because she had learned them through cosmos interface. So for me, that is a real thing. It's so wonderful that it works and that and and that she loves it so much too.

All shaped like balls. And we never realized that people with an English background would say belly land rather than Boley land, because it was spelled. He spelled it like balls. And for the first time that happened, we were like, what? But now I just have to explain it. And the children know, obviously, because they listen. All the Islanders have have a name, they have a signature sound, they have a particular character, and they live in Bullyland, which is a happy kind of world where they have their adventures and learn things, and when they learn things, the children learn things too. And maybe, if I may, share a very short anecdote from the conference, because for me, apart from from being heavily involved in organising the conference and presenting, it's a wonderful opportunity for me to talk to people. And a lot of people came up spontaneously to tell me how how happy they were with the Bullyland apps. And these were parents and educators. And one of the parents told me that the girl who was using Bullyland actually really loves Cosmoball, which is the astronaut and in the classroom, had asked the teacher to do something about space. And then she knew the answers to the questions of the teacher because she had learned them through cosmos interface. So for me, that is a real thing. It's so wonderful that it works and that and and that she loves it so much too.

Well, you said poly land is a safe and happy place. Thank you for taking us there just for the last ten minutes or so. We appreciate that. We'll go out with the Highlanders. It'll be good to catch up with you, obviously, again in the future. Maybe after you get back from your trip in the middle of the year. But keep up your amazing work, amazing work. Congratulations on your 25 years and we wish you well.

Well, you said poly land is a safe and happy place. Thank you for taking us there just for the last ten minutes or so. We appreciate that. We'll go out with the Highlanders. It'll be good to catch up with you, obviously, again in the future. Maybe after you get back from your trip in the middle of the year. But keep up your amazing work, amazing work. Congratulations on your 25 years and we wish you well.

Thank you so much, Peter.

Thank you so much, Peter.

And we'll put the details up about the album on our show notes as well. So people want to check it out. They can go there and find the the album. 19 songs I think aren't there?

And we'll put the details up about the album on our show notes as well. So people want to check it out. They can go there and find the the album. 19 songs I think aren't there?

Yes, yes, a lot of songs.

Yes, yes, a lot of songs.

Oh, terrific. All the best for you.

Oh, terrific. All the best for you.

Thank you so much, Peter. Until next.

Thank you so much, Peter. Until next.

Time. be creative Director all the way from borderland.

Time. be creative Director all the way from borderland.

So please keep coming back.

So please keep coming back.

To the program. Maduka da Silva, who's a PhD candidate at Monash University with some really fascinating research. But I'd love to catch up with you again and thank you for your time. Thank you.

To the program. Maduka da Silva, who's a PhD candidate at Monash University with some really fascinating research. But I'd love to catch up with you again and thank you for your time. Thank you.

Peter, actually, for inviting me again to this discussion.

Peter, actually, for inviting me again to this discussion.

Yes, it's my pleasure. Now, for regulars of the program, they may recall we spoke a couple of years ago. As I said, you're doing some really fascinating research. Tell us a bit about how and why this has all come about.

Yes, it's my pleasure. Now, for regulars of the program, they may recall we spoke a couple of years ago. As I said, you're doing some really fascinating research. Tell us a bit about how and why this has all come about.

Yes. So I think if you recall, that was 2022, the first time you invited me to talk about my research. Um, so back then I just started my PhD research, which looked broadly into body movement accessibility for people who are blind or have low vision. So that was the start of the journey. And now we have progress towards sort of supporting dance, education, accessibility. So yes, we have changed and we have evolved, I guess.

Yes. So I think if you recall, that was 2022, the first time you invited me to talk about my research. Um, so back then I just started my PhD research, which looked broadly into body movement accessibility for people who are blind or have low vision. So that was the start of the journey. And now we have progress towards sort of supporting dance, education, accessibility. So yes, we have changed and we have evolved, I guess.

So is this kind of a bit of a natural evolution from body movement to now be looking at sort of more specifically dance if you like?

So is this kind of a bit of a natural evolution from body movement to now be looking at sort of more specifically dance if you like?

Yes. So yes, we have switched or we have sort of narrowed our context.

Yes. So yes, we have switched or we have sort of narrowed our context.

And just remind us why or how did this come about, why you're interested in this area.

And just remind us why or how did this come about, why you're interested in this area.

Well, that's an interesting question. Um, to answer that, yes, we started broadly and because we really wanted to understand from the point of people who are blind or have low vision to really understand what body movements, learning process is challenging for them. And also we wanted to understand from the teacher's perspective as well. So at the very beginning, we started looking into body movement in a very broad level. But then along the line People sort of shared with us that compared to other body movement, different sports, yoga and other activities, dance has been something that they really want to try that they may have tried, but it has not been really accessible for them. So that's sort of led us to explore dance as a more focused area. And at the same time, I'm also a dancer. I'm also very interested in learning dance and expanding my knowledge on dance as well. So there are parallels of interest as well.

Well, that's an interesting question. Um, to answer that, yes, we started broadly and because we really wanted to understand from the point of people who are blind or have low vision to really understand what body movements, learning process is challenging for them. And also we wanted to understand from the teacher's perspective as well. So at the very beginning, we started looking into body movement in a very broad level. But then along the line People sort of shared with us that compared to other body movement, different sports, yoga and other activities, dance has been something that they really want to try that they may have tried, but it has not been really accessible for them. So that's sort of led us to explore dance as a more focused area. And at the same time, I'm also a dancer. I'm also very interested in learning dance and expanding my knowledge on dance as well. So there are parallels of interest as well.

And of course, when you talk about, for example, the teachers, I mean, you know, a student with sight, they can see the teacher or you show them a video so they can visually take in what you're trying to get across as far as the movement goes. But as you say, if someone is blind or has very low vision, that's not quite as easy to do. In fact, you can't do it with a visual way. It's got to be a more tactile or verbal way.

And of course, when you talk about, for example, the teachers, I mean, you know, a student with sight, they can see the teacher or you show them a video so they can visually take in what you're trying to get across as far as the movement goes. But as you say, if someone is blind or has very low vision, that's not quite as easy to do. In fact, you can't do it with a visual way. It's got to be a more tactile or verbal way.

Exactly, yes. So that sort of led us where the teachers in a in a teacher's point of view, there were challenges that they expressed to the extent of that. They can be verbal. So there are nuances that they can't really, you know, verbalize, especially when providing feedback. So that was a key challenge or an insight that was shared from both of the perspectives, from people who are blind or have low vision as well as teachers. So like you said, when we have the visual sense, we can look at the teacher and correct ourselves, but then when we can't rely on the visual sense, then they need the feedback to learn the different movements. So yes, um, that is one of the key areas that we are looking to have in our research.

Exactly, yes. So that sort of led us where the teachers in a in a teacher's point of view, there were challenges that they expressed to the extent of that. They can be verbal. So there are nuances that they can't really, you know, verbalize, especially when providing feedback. So that was a key challenge or an insight that was shared from both of the perspectives, from people who are blind or have low vision as well as teachers. So like you said, when we have the visual sense, we can look at the teacher and correct ourselves, but then when we can't rely on the visual sense, then they need the feedback to learn the different movements. So yes, um, that is one of the key areas that we are looking to have in our research.

And of course, I've been doing this program for a while and we speak about, uh, sport in particular, even recreation. I mean, that's kind of well catered for. And often kids at school, for example, you know, even if it's specialized schools Learn different sports and the techniques. But, you know, maybe dance hasn't been so prevalent. So this is this is something a little bit new or kind of a new frontier. Yes.

And of course, I've been doing this program for a while and we speak about, uh, sport in particular, even recreation. I mean, that's kind of well catered for. And often kids at school, for example, you know, even if it's specialized schools Learn different sports and the techniques. But, you know, maybe dance hasn't been so prevalent. So this is this is something a little bit new or kind of a new frontier. Yes.

This is sort of new research because I had this experience of recently attending couple of local conferences where I attended a local conference in Perth, um, called Round Table, and then another local conference related to my research area. So I when I attended there, when I spoke to all these people or all the experts, professionals, something I heard was that they haven't really heard of research or technologies exploring dance access or dance education. So I think according to my knowledge and according to whatever that I have come across, this is something new. But at the same time, although this is new, we are using existing technologies to support, to extend the technology to support dance access. That is our current focus, but we might be able to expand it to other areas as well.

This is sort of new research because I had this experience of recently attending couple of local conferences where I attended a local conference in Perth, um, called Round Table, and then another local conference related to my research area. So I when I attended there, when I spoke to all these people or all the experts, professionals, something I heard was that they haven't really heard of research or technologies exploring dance access or dance education. So I think according to my knowledge and according to whatever that I have come across, this is something new. But at the same time, although this is new, we are using existing technologies to support, to extend the technology to support dance access. That is our current focus, but we might be able to expand it to other areas as well.

Now you've had a few people contact you or do some sessions with you, is that right? Yes.

Now you've had a few people contact you or do some sessions with you, is that right? Yes.

So currently we have evolved in the sense starting from 2022. As I said before, we have implemented a system or what I would like to call it as an artifact that provides sound feedback as well as haptic feedback. So we are trying to explore how we can improve this based on the feedback of people who are blind or have low vision, as well as teachers. So we are following a co-design approach, where we conduct a couple of sessions inviting people to try this system out along with the teacher learn a choreography. So currently in Melbourne we are conducting a couple of evaluation sessions. If anyone is interested to join us.

So currently we have evolved in the sense starting from 2022. As I said before, we have implemented a system or what I would like to call it as an artifact that provides sound feedback as well as haptic feedback. So we are trying to explore how we can improve this based on the feedback of people who are blind or have low vision, as well as teachers. So we are following a co-design approach, where we conduct a couple of sessions inviting people to try this system out along with the teacher learn a choreography. So currently in Melbourne we are conducting a couple of evaluation sessions. If anyone is interested to join us.

We'll give you details before we wrap up. We'll give people a chance to get something to take down your contact details. And also we can put them up with our show notes because, I mean, it's one of those things where obviously dance or movement is so important, and we hear more and more about how important movement and physical movement is for for good health. And, you know, if dance can be part of that, that's a great thing, particularly if someone's really interested in it.

We'll give you details before we wrap up. We'll give people a chance to get something to take down your contact details. And also we can put them up with our show notes because, I mean, it's one of those things where obviously dance or movement is so important, and we hear more and more about how important movement and physical movement is for for good health. And, you know, if dance can be part of that, that's a great thing, particularly if someone's really interested in it.

Yes, definitely. Dance has it's so many benefits in medical ways as well. I'm not the expert to explain them at this moment, but I think people might know about it. So dance can help support in many ways to lift up your mood and help with your body movement. Dance is very special in a way, because it gives the possibility of learning about your body, how the body can move in very different ways, and it's very enjoyable. So I would encourage, I mean, as a dancer, that that's how I encourage everyone to try give this a chance.

Yes, definitely. Dance has it's so many benefits in medical ways as well. I'm not the expert to explain them at this moment, but I think people might know about it. So dance can help support in many ways to lift up your mood and help with your body movement. Dance is very special in a way, because it gives the possibility of learning about your body, how the body can move in very different ways, and it's very enjoyable. So I would encourage, I mean, as a dancer, that that's how I encourage everyone to try give this a chance.

Yes, it's a great thing when you talk about dance, any particular mode of death in a particular genre? Yes.

Yes, it's a great thing when you talk about dance, any particular mode of death in a particular genre? Yes.

So we are focusing on contemporary dance. There are a couple of reasons why we are focused on contemporary dance, because it has these particular moments that we are used to in our daily life, like walking, a sort of moving, lying down on the floor, very movements that are habitual to us to start with. And I wouldn't say it doesn't have techniques, but it's more or less structured and it has freedom of exploration. There's a lot of aspects of improvisation that sort of leaves people to, you know, be creative by themselves. So yes, we are focusing on contemporary dance.

So we are focusing on contemporary dance. There are a couple of reasons why we are focused on contemporary dance, because it has these particular moments that we are used to in our daily life, like walking, a sort of moving, lying down on the floor, very movements that are habitual to us to start with. And I wouldn't say it doesn't have techniques, but it's more or less structured and it has freedom of exploration. There's a lot of aspects of improvisation that sort of leaves people to, you know, be creative by themselves. So yes, we are focusing on contemporary dance.

As it be fun or hard work or both.

As it be fun or hard work or both.

I think it's.

I think it's.

Both.

Both.

Yes, because dance is fun for me and it is something that I'm passionate about. And it's it is really, um, sort of I really enjoy seeing other people getting the opportunity to try dance as well. And it is hard work because we are working with a very complicated system, very complicated technologies to make it simple, to make it sound simple. Um, but yes, it's both.

Yes, because dance is fun for me and it is something that I'm passionate about. And it's it is really, um, sort of I really enjoy seeing other people getting the opportunity to try dance as well. And it is hard work because we are working with a very complicated system, very complicated technologies to make it simple, to make it sound simple. Um, but yes, it's both.

You want to explain a bit more about the technology that you're using, or the kind of the systems that you've got in place that you're using to kind of get the message across?

You want to explain a bit more about the technology that you're using, or the kind of the systems that you've got in place that you're using to kind of get the message across?

Yes. So the technology that we're using is sort of, uh, based on a motion capture cameras where we track the body movement of the teacher, and then we provide the feedback to the student. So it's sort of giving a feedback to be in sync. So the feedback is what's important in our system where we design it in a way along with the people's feedback that provides sound feedback. And it's sort of musical. So it's not something that I really can explain, something you need to sort of experience, but it provides a feedback along with the song as well as we provide haptic feedback. So something that you can feel in your hand as a vibration feedback to be in sync with the teacher.

Yes. So the technology that we're using is sort of, uh, based on a motion capture cameras where we track the body movement of the teacher, and then we provide the feedback to the student. So it's sort of giving a feedback to be in sync. So the feedback is what's important in our system where we design it in a way along with the people's feedback that provides sound feedback. And it's sort of musical. So it's not something that I really can explain, something you need to sort of experience, but it provides a feedback along with the song as well as we provide haptic feedback. So something that you can feel in your hand as a vibration feedback to be in sync with the teacher.

Okay, that's certainly very much, uh, a modern sort of, uh, technology feature, isn't it? The haptic with, uh, you know, smartphones and those sort of devices, etcetera.

Okay, that's certainly very much, uh, a modern sort of, uh, technology feature, isn't it? The haptic with, uh, you know, smartphones and those sort of devices, etcetera.

Yes, yes it is.

Yes, yes it is.

So you're very much part of that. It's kind of interesting. I'm just thinking as we're talking, you know, I over the years people are blind or low vision have been very much involved with, uh, singing and music in particular and very good at, I mean, you know, people like Stevie Wonder have made millions of dollars from it and become rich and famous. But but sort of dance hasn't been one of those features. But what? Why shouldn't it? Or this could be something that people could explore as far as an opportunity for the future goes.

So you're very much part of that. It's kind of interesting. I'm just thinking as we're talking, you know, I over the years people are blind or low vision have been very much involved with, uh, singing and music in particular and very good at, I mean, you know, people like Stevie Wonder have made millions of dollars from it and become rich and famous. But but sort of dance hasn't been one of those features. But what? Why shouldn't it? Or this could be something that people could explore as far as an opportunity for the future goes.

I think our system sort of looks into music. Yes. And we did have a couple of people who are sort of musical experts actually joined our sessions. But something that came across was that it has to be, uh, aesthetically appealing when it comes to having sound feedback, but at the same time, it depends on the communication between the teacher and the student as you know what sort of needs they have when you are learning a dance. It's not just about the sound feedback, it's about the song that they want to learn the dance about. So this research has has its own complexities, you know, working around music. And also I'm working along with the, um, technology expert in my research team, Tim Smiley. He's also a PhD student who's contributing as a musical expert with over 20 years of music experience. So I need to tell about him as well that we are working alongside, um, developing this system. So yes, there are relationships along with, you know, the music knowledge that really has impacted this research as well.