Your child is screaming in the car, refusing to go to school. Or they're hiding under their bed, terrified of another doctor's appointment. You know something is deeply wrong, but from the outside, it just looks like defiance. Welcome to one of the most misunderstood aspects of PANS/PANDAS: refusal behaviors.

In this episode, licensed clinical social worker Angela Henry joins hosts Krystal Vivian and Lindsey Forsyth to unpack why so many children with PANS/PANDAS struggle with school and medical appointments—and what parents can actually do about it. From understanding the difference between "not willing" and "not able" to exploring options like IEPs, homeschooling, and unschooling, this conversation offers both validation and practical strategies.

Whether your child is currently refusing to get out of the car or you're worried about what happens when refusal turns physical, this episode tackles the hard questions with honesty and compassion. Because sometimes the most important thing parents need to hear is: you're not alone, this is real, and there are people who understand.

RESOURCES:
Surviving The Flares: An Emotional Toolkit For PANS/PANDAS Caregivers — Available wherever you listen to podcasts

Claimable https://www.getclaimable.com/ 

PANDAS Michiana https://pandasmichiana.com/ 

PANDAS Physician Network https://www.pandasppn.org/ 

PANDAS Network https://pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandas/ 

Angela Henry, LCSW https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae 

ASPIRE PANS PANDAS Advocacy, Community & Support Aspire

Neuroimmune Foundation Neuroimmune Foundation | Inflammatory Brain Conditions

Mind Global Council https://www.mindglobalcouncil.com/

OCD Family Podcast https://www.ocdfamilypodcast.com/

Hornets and Hippos Workbook: https://margaretjessoppsyd.com/hornets-and-hippos/ 

Parenting Resources:

Dr. Ross Greene https://drrossgreene.com/ 

Dr. Becky Kennedy https://www.goodinside.com/about/ 

Dr. Dan Siegel https://drdansiegel.com/ 

Brene Brown (professor and researcher of shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy) https://brenebrown.com/ 

Your child is screaming in the car, refusing to go to school. Or they're hiding under their bed, terrified of another doctor's appointment. You know something is deeply wrong, but from the outside, it just looks like defiance. Welcome to one of the most misunderstood aspects of PANS/PANDAS: refusal behaviors.
In this episode, licensed clinical social worker Angela Henry joins hosts Krystal Vivian and Lindsey Forsyth to unpack why so many children with PANS/PANDAS struggle with school and medical appointments&mdash;and what parents can actually do about it. From understanding the difference between "not willing" and "not able" to exploring options like IEPs, homeschooling, and unschooling, this conversation offers both validation and practical strategies.
Whether your child is currently refusing to get out of the car or you're worried about what happens when refusal turns physical, this episode tackles the hard questions with honesty and compassion. Because sometimes the most important thing parents need to hear is: you're not alone, this is real, and there are people who understand.
RESOURCES: Surviving The Flares: An Emotional Toolkit For PANS/PANDAS Caregivers &mdash; Available wherever you listen to podcasts
Claimable <a href="https://www.getclaimable.com/">https://www.getclaimable.com/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Michiana<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fpandasmichiana.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,zc3GDyjXr-vdPgMBUXX2l3bdpimTgHntDDmCNrElzZT3IuwKstPR9MD061FpO7C5MB92Kitz0Ofp4B-Cu3PaVlZxcV_i0pEKQ1hi2692cCj3RGLp7S0,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://pandasmichiana.com/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Physician Network<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.pandasppn.org%2f&amp;c=E,1,nsheMF-ZLyNfeCaEVqJ8w1EbmKvUKdzaJBlkcCATXXhn1RR7VzLqiB-1AW54IN3R5ThQAxNKsJZzeoPvyrNKbz5MuyVmH1kxh5lv-wA5yS3_8A,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.pandasppn.org/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Network<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fpandasnetwork.org%2funderstanding-pandas%2f&amp;c=E,1,oSRcOxHIeOczxNnwyEwwPsz1pezNuxPJqpUPiFBd54voMEq9LMXjCgdcVJIisUWjPQPqWNJfKhGWi2XHGL4ZmZyGB4f22A41FGq9pAE2NWnc&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandas/</a>&nbsp;
Angela Henry, LCSW <a href="https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae">https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae</a>&nbsp;
ASPIRE <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2faspire.care%2f&amp;c=E,1,JctdDsly7jEemiEI4eHkwsS38NEDK_5AfMf9GLGRiJ4uUR61hWffsF133U_aI-eJROFh3PEQhDSpTUaL4kCf_kjyRbGhp3uCH5Je7UVH0Y77LHlzqG71WO_EUpo,&amp;typo=1">PANS PANDAS Advocacy, Community &amp; Support Aspire</a>
Neuroimmune Foundation <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fneuroimmune.org%2f&amp;c=E,1,mNTMw8l4LkpxnJz4O_rajIeYPOY7MvW-P8XHdGqh8BKsYCFg9ZuQs6ehjylbvsG7h5c1XjPTljXbM2Xb3Zf_s9YX1VweL-Hoyp4Z203FHhNSBdHmaSaAt2WQbNw,&amp;typo=1">Neuroimmune Foundation | Inflammatory Brain Conditions</a>
Mind Global Council&nbsp;<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mindglobalcouncil.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,Lwk8_anxtG66heZOxzQuYZDgH3QjAQJsuvX86jNrlDTgefVaTKyFYw_9Gm0x06eEosqgKIc5VSijRQMFjEpfaBvhptfInfPHUa7EIKCeIZDDv2w1fFsxauI,&amp;typo=1">https://www.mindglobalcouncil.com/</a>
OCD Family Podcast<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ocdfamilypodcast.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,2ELpdJUDsiHm8ErbupVYFsCgz6pPqFKhiL1zxvlZR1lfxntav0ChXXeR_odXnbZQFs0d9jpyHfffvBKdDHyufmYPdk8pIHtIvNJ_pangcGQ,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.ocdfamilypodcast.com/</a>
Hornets and Hippos Workbook:<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fmargaretjessoppsyd.com%2fhornets-and-hippos%2f&amp;c=E,1,50iUUS-2-wkhfhPAAoe2AmQ4d7_sMTFwbLl3JS5_YQNrj-bISePqPD6KHjF-qwVRrE_6zelRR5N5u1MT_7p11UfoIrSGieTNNJFN0QE1XI7l0wrn&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://margaretjessoppsyd.com/hornets-and-hippos/</a>&nbsp;
Parenting Resources:
Dr. Ross Greene<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdrrossgreene.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,tMtE3h8P3utEznCHXLypiTXMBbuMlUihQWP357ew54WG8qfPM3dw1ktJP7IgHdYoSOh6cWKN1xjIDD0Loau8MQlcJb3QFbH0OOn4-2G-i1mp9igM7W-HPQ,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://drrossgreene.com/</a>&nbsp;
Dr. Becky Kennedy<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.goodinside.com%2fabout%2f&amp;c=E,1,HE69LaTrRrJcaUoxf1rLbJLdKMXKS7bK5DFql5vk5yhoD0ILzjRPrmqDq9gO5YeM8iwKc8AAhPDagMzCikkZtTzYAvh0g9n-NYWPKFCY&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.goodinside.com/about/</a>&nbsp;
Dr. Dan Siegel<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdrdansiegel.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,M3Mk7Pn6Z8p4tl3lIC2CjWbSp-gC4O_eSsCKFj-qbonbl8QhfjSX7vmChYjULwrDzuMC731yEYz0s1lHquDvFki_LVkKdwQRwxc8rLrneiJZK4C1hY560Q,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://drdansiegel.com/</a>&nbsp;
Brene Brown (professor and researcher of shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy)<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbrenebrown.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,eEJAbm1TjnlhFLej380GzNo66QTcMZ0cv5rrri3j_0aN1QxoXMSzGdYG4k-rZPfHo7DJF1xykEnAW-JOTxEV5gIlh50P1B47lvMEC_MM&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://brenebrown.com/</a>&nbsp;

When infections or other factors trigger autoimmune responses that attack your child's brain, families find themselves navigating an invisible storm. They seek out care, but often even clinicians wanting to help may not know how. Flying Through Fog brings clarity to the complex world of PANS/PANDAS through real stories, expert insights, and practical guidance.

Tune in weekly for conversations with families who've walked this path, medical professionals who understand the science, and advocates fighting for better awareness and treatment access. You'll hear from parents sharing their diagnostic journeys, experts helping families overcome insurance coverage denials, and clinicians who are in the trenches advancing our understanding of these neuroimmune conditions.

Whether you're seeking answers for sudden behavioral changes in your child, looking for treatment options, or you're a clinician looking for guidance, this podcast offers hope, community and education. We tackle the hard questions about symptoms, therapies, school accommodations, and family dynamics while celebrating the resilience of children and families affected by PANS/PANDAS.

Because when you're flying through fog, you don't have to fly alone.

New episodes drop weekly. Join our community of families, advocates, and professionals working together to raise awareness and improve outcomes for children with PANS/PANDAS.

Flying Through Fog is produced and mixed by Tommie Lee. It is published by News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel and News/Talk 1190 WOWO 92.3 FM. A member of the Podcasts by Federated Media network.

When infections or other factors trigger autoimmune responses that attack your child's brain, families find themselves navigating an invisible storm. They seek out care, but often even clinicians wanting to help may not know how. Flying Through Fog brings clarity to the complex world of PANS/PANDAS through real stories, expert insights, and practical guidance.
Tune in weekly for conversations with families who've walked this path, medical professionals who understand the science, and advocates fighting for better awareness and treatment access. You'll hear from parents sharing their diagnostic journeys, experts helping families overcome insurance coverage denials, and clinicians who are in the trenches&nbsp;advancing our understanding of these neuroimmune conditions.
Whether you're seeking answers for sudden behavioral changes in your child, looking for treatment options,&nbsp;or you're a clinician looking for guidance, this podcast offers hope, community and education. We tackle the hard questions about symptoms, therapies, school accommodations, and family dynamics while celebrating the resilience of children and families affected by PANS/PANDAS.
Because when you're flying through fog, you don't have to fly alone.
New episodes drop weekly. Join our community of families, advocates, and professionals working together to raise awareness and improve outcomes for children with PANS/PANDAS.
Flying Through Fog is produced and mixed by Tommie Lee. It is published by News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel and News/Talk 1190 WOWO 92.3 FM. A member of the Podcasts by Federated Media network.