Dr. Kiki Chang is a child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist who co-founded the Stanford PANS Clinic in 2012 and directed Stanford’s Pediatric Bipolar Disorders Program for nearly two decades. In this episode, hosts Krystal Vivian and Angela Henry, LCSW, talk with him about how patients referred for bipolar disorder led him to PANS, and how he approaches treatment: make the right diagnosis, find what is driving the inflammation, treat infection only when it is there, then consider steroids, IVIG, or other immunomodulators.

Dr. Chang also explains why he views the treatment guidelines as a decision tree, how parents can advocate for their child without alienating the care team, and where psychiatric medications fit during a flare. The conversation covers EXPAND, the European PANS/PANDAS advocacy group, the overlap with autism and catatonia, and what we know so far about the microbiome, GLP-1s, and peptides.

RESOURCES:
Surviving The Flares: An Emotional Toolkit For PANS/PANDAS Caregivers — Available wherever you listen to podcasts

Dr. Kiki Chang https://www.kikichangmd.com/ 

Claimable https://www.getclaimable.com/ 

PANDAS Michiana https://pandasmichiana.com/ 

PANDAS Physician Network https://www.pandasppn.org/ 

PANDAS Network https://pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandas/ 

Angela Henry, LCSW https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae 

National PANDAS/PANS Youth Alliance https://www.nationalpandasyouthalliance.org/home 

PANDAS PARENTS Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/461708653853619

ASPIRE PANS PANDAS Advocacy, Community & Support Aspire

Neuroimmune Foundation Neuroimmune Foundation | Inflammatory Brain Conditions

Mind Global Council https://www.mindglobalcouncil.com/

OCD Family Podcast https://www.ocdfamilypodcast.com/

Hornets and Hippos Workbook: https://margaretjessoppsyd.com/hornets-and-hippos/ 

Parenting Resources:

Dr. Ross Greene https://drrossgreene.com/ 

Dr. Becky Kennedy https://www.goodinside.com/about/ 

Dr. Dan Siegel https://drdansiegel.com/ 

Brene Brown (professor and researcher of shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy) https://brenebrown.com/ 

Dr. Kiki Chang is a child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist who co-founded the Stanford PANS Clinic in 2012 and directed Stanford&rsquo;s Pediatric Bipolar Disorders Program for nearly two decades. In this episode, hosts Krystal Vivian and Angela Henry, LCSW, talk with him about how patients referred for bipolar disorder led him to PANS, and how he approaches treatment: make the right diagnosis, find what is driving the inflammation, treat infection only when it is there, then consider steroids, IVIG, or other immunomodulators.
Dr. Chang also explains why he views the treatment guidelines as a decision tree, how parents can advocate for their child without alienating the care team, and where psychiatric medications fit during a flare. The conversation covers EXPAND, the European PANS/PANDAS advocacy group, the overlap with autism and catatonia, and what we know so far about the microbiome, GLP-1s, and peptides.
RESOURCES: Surviving The Flares: An Emotional Toolkit For PANS/PANDAS Caregivers &mdash; Available wherever you listen to podcasts
Dr. Kiki Chang <a href="https://www.kikichangmd.com/">https://www.kikichangmd.com/</a>&nbsp;
Claimable <a href="https://www.getclaimable.com/">https://www.getclaimable.com/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Michiana<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fpandasmichiana.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,zc3GDyjXr-vdPgMBUXX2l3bdpimTgHntDDmCNrElzZT3IuwKstPR9MD061FpO7C5MB92Kitz0Ofp4B-Cu3PaVlZxcV_i0pEKQ1hi2692cCj3RGLp7S0,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://pandasmichiana.com/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Physician Network<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.pandasppn.org%2f&amp;c=E,1,nsheMF-ZLyNfeCaEVqJ8w1EbmKvUKdzaJBlkcCATXXhn1RR7VzLqiB-1AW54IN3R5ThQAxNKsJZzeoPvyrNKbz5MuyVmH1kxh5lv-wA5yS3_8A,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.pandasppn.org/</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS Network<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fpandasnetwork.org%2funderstanding-pandas%2f&amp;c=E,1,oSRcOxHIeOczxNnwyEwwPsz1pezNuxPJqpUPiFBd54voMEq9LMXjCgdcVJIisUWjPQPqWNJfKhGWi2XHGL4ZmZyGB4f22A41FGq9pAE2NWnc&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandas/</a>&nbsp;
Angela Henry, LCSW <a href="https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae">https://angelahenrylcsw.com/services/pandas-pans-ae</a>&nbsp;
National PANDAS/PANS Youth Alliance <a href="https://www.nationalpandasyouthalliance.org/home">https://www.nationalpandasyouthalliance.org/home</a>&nbsp;
PANDAS PARENTS Facebook Group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/461708653853619">https://www.facebook.com/groups/461708653853619</a>
ASPIRE <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2faspire.care%2f&amp;c=E,1,JctdDsly7jEemiEI4eHkwsS38NEDK_5AfMf9GLGRiJ4uUR61hWffsF133U_aI-eJROFh3PEQhDSpTUaL4kCf_kjyRbGhp3uCH5Je7UVH0Y77LHlzqG71WO_EUpo,&amp;typo=1">PANS PANDAS Advocacy, Community &amp; Support Aspire</a>
Neuroimmune Foundation <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fneuroimmune.org%2f&amp;c=E,1,mNTMw8l4LkpxnJz4O_rajIeYPOY7MvW-P8XHdGqh8BKsYCFg9ZuQs6ehjylbvsG7h5c1XjPTljXbM2Xb3Zf_s9YX1VweL-Hoyp4Z203FHhNSBdHmaSaAt2WQbNw,&amp;typo=1">Neuroimmune Foundation | Inflammatory Brain Conditions</a>
Mind Global Council&nbsp;<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mindglobalcouncil.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,Lwk8_anxtG66heZOxzQuYZDgH3QjAQJsuvX86jNrlDTgefVaTKyFYw_9Gm0x06eEosqgKIc5VSijRQMFjEpfaBvhptfInfPHUa7EIKCeIZDDv2w1fFsxauI,&amp;typo=1">https://www.mindglobalcouncil.com/</a>
OCD Family Podcast<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ocdfamilypodcast.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,2ELpdJUDsiHm8ErbupVYFsCgz6pPqFKhiL1zxvlZR1lfxntav0ChXXeR_odXnbZQFs0d9jpyHfffvBKdDHyufmYPdk8pIHtIvNJ_pangcGQ,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.ocdfamilypodcast.com/</a>
Hornets and Hippos Workbook:<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fmargaretjessoppsyd.com%2fhornets-and-hippos%2f&amp;c=E,1,50iUUS-2-wkhfhPAAoe2AmQ4d7_sMTFwbLl3JS5_YQNrj-bISePqPD6KHjF-qwVRrE_6zelRR5N5u1MT_7p11UfoIrSGieTNNJFN0QE1XI7l0wrn&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://margaretjessoppsyd.com/hornets-and-hippos/</a>&nbsp;
Parenting Resources:
Dr. Ross Greene<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdrrossgreene.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,tMtE3h8P3utEznCHXLypiTXMBbuMlUihQWP357ew54WG8qfPM3dw1ktJP7IgHdYoSOh6cWKN1xjIDD0Loau8MQlcJb3QFbH0OOn4-2G-i1mp9igM7W-HPQ,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://drrossgreene.com/</a>&nbsp;
Dr. Becky Kennedy<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.goodinside.com%2fabout%2f&amp;c=E,1,HE69LaTrRrJcaUoxf1rLbJLdKMXKS7bK5DFql5vk5yhoD0ILzjRPrmqDq9gO5YeM8iwKc8AAhPDagMzCikkZtTzYAvh0g9n-NYWPKFCY&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://www.goodinside.com/about/</a>&nbsp;
Dr. Dan Siegel<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdrdansiegel.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,M3Mk7Pn6Z8p4tl3lIC2CjWbSp-gC4O_eSsCKFj-qbonbl8QhfjSX7vmChYjULwrDzuMC731yEYz0s1lHquDvFki_LVkKdwQRwxc8rLrneiJZK4C1hY560Q,,&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://drdansiegel.com/</a>&nbsp;
Brene Brown (professor and researcher of shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy)<a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbrenebrown.com%2f&amp;c=E,1,eEJAbm1TjnlhFLej380GzNo66QTcMZ0cv5rrri3j_0aN1QxoXMSzGdYG4k-rZPfHo7DJF1xykEnAW-JOTxEV5gIlh50P1B47lvMEC_MM&amp;typo=1">&nbsp;https://brenebrown.com/</a>&nbsp;

When infections trigger autoimmune responses that attack a child's brain, families face an invisible storm—and often struggle to find doctors who understand how to help. Flying Through Fog brings clarity to PANS/PANDAS through real family stories, expert medical insights, and practical guidance.

Each episode features conversations with parents sharing their diagnostic journeys, medical professionals who specialize in these neuroimmune conditions, and advocates fighting for insurance coverage and better treatment access. Whether you're seeking answers for sudden behavioral changes in your child, looking for treatment options, or navigating school accommodations, this podcast offers hope, community, and education.

Your hosts:
Krystal Vivian – News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel
Lindsey Forsyth – mom of two kids with PANS/PANDAS
Angela Henry – LCSW, founder of Center for Collaborative Healing

Because when you're flying through fog, you don't have to fly alone.

Are you in the middle of the fog? Check out our sister podcast, Surviving The Flares, available now on your favorite podcast app.

Flying Through Fog is produced by Tommie Lee and published by News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel, a member of the Podcasts by Federated Media network.

When infections trigger autoimmune responses that attack a child's brain, families face an invisible storm&mdash;and often struggle to find doctors who understand how to help. Flying Through Fog brings clarity to PANS/PANDAS through real family stories, expert medical insights, and practical guidance.
Each episode features conversations with parents sharing their diagnostic journeys, medical professionals who specialize in these neuroimmune conditions, and advocates fighting for insurance coverage and better treatment access. Whether you're seeking answers for sudden behavioral changes in your child, looking for treatment options, or navigating school accommodations, this podcast offers hope, community, and education.
Your hosts:
<ul>
<li>Krystal Vivian &ndash; News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel</li>
<li>Lindsey Forsyth &ndash; mom of two kids with PANS/PANDAS</li>
<li>Angela Henry &ndash; LCSW, founder of Center for Collaborative Healing</li>
</ul>
Because when you're flying through fog, you don't have to fly alone.
Are you in the middle of the fog? Check out our sister podcast, Surviving The Flares, available now on your favorite podcast app.
Flying Through Fog is produced by Tommie Lee and published by News/Talk 95.3 Michiana's News Channel, a member of the Podcasts by Federated Media network.