LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With!
Join your host Brett Goldstein as he talks life, death, love and the universe with the prolific and well credited filmmaker and actor LEIGH WHANNELL!
A really lovely chat with someone who you will very likely know from films that have come up many times on this very podcast, so you know you're in for some goodness here... A delightfully self deprecating (in the best ways) and entertaining catch up which covers so much, including but not limited to working with James Wan, making films out of pocket and how to handle low budgets, creating a millennial Freddie Krueger, Insidious and Saw and working on such franchises, devilish alchemy, creative uncoupling, healthy fear of disease and the list goes on! And if you came here for an ethereal Sisyphian tone poem, we've got ya covered. OH ALSO - spoiler bits for Invisible Man where he runs through a scene as he wrote it (which is maybe not so suitable for folk of sensitive disposition) - just so you know. Never let death get in the way of a dollar! Enjoy!
Look out the only films to be buried.
With Hello, and welcome to films to be buried with. My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian and actor, a writer, a director, a slingshot slinger, and I love film. As Laurie Gottlieb once said, we grow in connection with others, Like how in the Brady Bunch movie at first they don't really like being a blended family, but then they realize they are much better together. Actually, yeah, it's a lot like that actually, and also in a very Brady sequel too. Every week I invite a special guest over. I tell them they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that men the most of them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Kevin Smith, Sharon Stone, and even What Was. But this week we have the brilliant, brilliant filmmaker, mister Lee One. Now, all episodes of Shrinking Season two are now available on Apple TV. Get caught up on the whole show. You will fucking love it. I swear down over to the Patreon at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you're getting extra twenty minutes of chat with Lee. We talk secrets, we talk beginnings and endings. We have some really good stuff in that. You also get the whole episode uncut and dad free check it out over at patrion dot com. Forward slash Brett Goldstein, so Leejeell is a brilliant filmmaker. He wrote the original Saw film. He's directed the brilliant Invisible Man Upgrade Insidious three. His new film, Wolfman, starring Julia Garner and Christopher Abbott, is in Cinema seventeenth January, and I, for one, am very excited to see it. He's a brilliant filmmaker. We'd never met before. We recorded this on zoom. It was an absolute pleasure of talking to him. And I really think you're going to enjoy this one. I hope you're all well. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode three hundred and thirty four of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein, and I'm joined today by a filmmaker, a writer, a producer, a director, an insidious.
Sir, a sorer, a dead silencer, a so.
Insidious two three, four five sixer.
A hero, a legend, maker of one of the all time great sequences in the cinema of all time in The Invisible Man, and now coming up soon with Wolfman.
Please welcome to the show. It's the brilliant is leeve?
What else?
Yeah?
Did you have to mention dead silence? I mean that was the only Flora.
It's very nice to meet you, Lee.
Very nice to meet you. Thank you for doing this, Absolutely great to be here.
Tell me, is it true? May I ask? I've got many things to ask you.
Is it true that the original Saw, which is an excellent film, the idea was from you nearly dying and wanting to live?
Is that true?
That's a little more dramatic than the real story. So basically, James One, who you've already spoken to, he and I had finished film school. We were in Melbourne, we were working in these jobs we weren't particularly enjoying. We decided we were going to make a film with our own money rather than wait for somebody else's money to fall into our lap. Fantastic and so we thought, well, we could probably save up maybe ten thousand dollars between the two of us over the course of a year or two, But what movie can you shoot for ten thousand dollars? So we thought, okay, well it has to all be set in one room. So we actually put these restrictions on the story before we ever came up with the idea for the story. So we decided it had to be set in one room with two characters, and that was it. Those were the rules, and so it took us a long time to come up. I mean, if try coming up with a movie set in one room with only two characters, it's pretty tough.
I love it.
And we went through every variation of a locked room thriller that we could. And it was actually James who came up with the first idea that to saw. He was the one that called me and said, it's two guys. They're chained up in this bathroom and there's a dead body in the middle of the room, and he sort of pitched me this outline and I immediately I remember the phone call like it was yesterday. I immediately hung up the phone. This was in the early two thousand, so it was a landline. Ladies and gentlemen. You might have to have a separate segment later explainings, but exactly footnotes. I remember hanging up the phone and knowing that this was the one, and I called him back and said, Yeah, they're going to have hack saws, and they're going to have to the only way to get out of these chains is going to be cutting their own feet off, and the film's going to be called Saw. And I remember he was a bit skeptical about that at first. I think it sounded it sounded a bit Texas chainsaw to him at first. And then when I went off to write the script based on this idea, that was when I got to what you talked about. I was thinking, well, Okay, who's the villain of this story? Would why would this person take two people and chain them up in a room and play this game with them? So I was trying to figure out, like, what's the motivation here? And at that time, I was suffering these migraines, and I remember going in and having a cat scan. I mean, I was twenty three years old. Like, when you're twenty three years old, you shouldn't be getting catstans, you know, it's very unnerving. So I remember I remember being in the hospital that day and looking around and you see people who have lost their hair due to chemotherapy. And I remember how unsettling that was, just the fear that you have of like, oh god, what if this is bad news? What if the doctor looks at the scan and says, I got bad news for you. That idea, that thought was so terrifying to me that I suddenly attached it to this screenplay and I was like, Okay, what if this character is suffering from brain cancer and is so angry about that diagnosis. That's his reaction to it, And what he wants to do is take people that are healthy and in his eyes, ungrateful and put them to the test. And so that's really the backstory of what you talked about it. It wasn't quite as dramatic as I was dying and I but the mere thought that I could have been dying was enough to scare me.
Yeah, it's so interesting. I'm going to come back to Invisible Man.
But I saw then became bigger and bigger and bigger, and this now behemoth. And I'm sure it blows your mind how big it's become starting from there. But how involved you are you still all over all of that or do you have you stepped away?
How does that work.
Yes, you can ask for sure. I am not involved anymore. I haven't been involved in the Sare films for a long time. Okay, I think you were correct in your use of the word bohemouth. This film that James and I cooked up in two thousand and three has metastasized just to keep it going in the cancer feet into this beast of a franchise, and people around the world love it, and I don't begrudge its existence. Of course, it wasn't intentional. James and I never went into that first movie thinking, Wow, I can't wait to get started on the sequel. You know some filmmakers, do you know some filmmakers are like, it was always a trilogy. I planned it that way, and I planned the prequels too, and that was very much not the case with us. We actually thought of the ending of that movie as being very definitive, Like, if you remember the ending of that original film, not only is the character dying, you know, this is a guy who's going to be dead in a minute, but he slams the door. It's a literal and metaphorical door slam. And you know, the hardest thing in movies is to have a great ending. You know, movies with great endings are celebrated, you know, and it's so difficult. And so we felt like whatever flaws that movie had, and whatever shortcomings we had at that age as filmmakers or writers, as actors, whatever it was, at least we had a great ending. We always felt confident in that. And I feel like fifty percent of the box office for Saw was due to the ending. So if they had left it there, I would have been happy. But of course this franchise wouldn't exist, and they resurrected this character, you know, even though he was dying. You know, I should have learned this from Jason Vorhes and Michael Byers. Never let death get in the way of a dollar in death is a mere inconvenience on the way to a sequel. I mean, you know, you can stab someone in their heart and chop their head off and they can be back for the sequel. So Hollywood economics prevailed. They kept making them. They kept making them. I was involved with two sequels. I wrote the second film and the third film, and then I felt like that was it. I was like, I think I've said all I wanted to say here, and it is. It is strange to see it, to see it go on without us.
Yeah, and they and if you're a lab to day, I'm sure you are or not, Like are you are you consulted on any other sour stuff or is it they just do stuff without you?
Guys know, Yeah, it feels like a separates It's That's another really interesting thing about it is Yeah, this thing that.
Your kids went off to college and did their own.
Yeah, exactly. It is. It is like the kids leaving the house and now they're their own people and you're sort of responsible for them. You know, you brought them into the world. Yeah, it does feel a little like that if I'm driving down the street and I see a poster for a new Saw movie. It's a little because this is this is something that was created in Australia when you know it was our little secret and now it belongs to someone else. I'm sure there's a million metaphors we could come up with, like it's like seeing someone dating your ex wife or whatever. But it's it's funny, it's strange. I've said before in the past, I think James and I accidentally created the millennial Freddy Krueger. Yeah, and you know, a lot of people that I talk to will say, even on social media, people would say, oh, I grew up watching Saw movies at sleepovers, you know, and when I was a teenager, when I was younger, I would watch night More and elm Street films at sleepovers. Yeah, and it didn't matter which one I was watching. I would watch part four, part five. To me, it was all the same. I just wanted to watch Freddie kill people. And I realize now in hindsight, that's what we did. There's a there's a generation of kids that grew up with Jigsaw, and so there is something cool about that. But I would say ninety percent of my affection as it relates to the Saw franchise is directly tied to that first movie. You know, I've got ten percent of affection for the rest of the movies, but it's really about that first film.
Have you been to the Horror Maze? The Saw Horror a maze at University?
Not only not only have I been there the first year that they did it, I went to Universal Studios with a bunch of my friends and I walked into the Saw Maze and the first thing I see, the first room I'm in, is the bathroom set the main set for the first movie, and I'm in the room and I looked down and there's an actor playing me, and he's on the floor dressed the way I was, and he's got his foot in his chain and he's screaming at me, and I'm looking at him. And a friend of mine who was next to me an Australian. It's Angus Samson, who acted in the Insidious films with me. He had never done one of these mazes before, you know, this was all new to him. So I shoved him towards where I knew the danger was. I could see somebody's feet, I could see somebody lurking, waiting to jump out. So I shoved Angus towards this person. And then I received a tap on the shoulder. I hadn't even made it through that first room, and I turn around and there is an employee of Universal Studios with a clipboard saying come with me, and I follow him, and the next thing I know, I'm in an alleyway behind the maze, and I say, what's happening? Where are you taking me? And he says, you've been asked to leave. You can't do you you may not continue, please leave And I said, I said what and he said, you have to leave and I'm like what why? He said, you can't interfere with the performers. And I said, mate, I don't know how to put this, but this I wrote this film. That's like, you have to let me of all the mazes to kick me out of you have to let me and he was he was like, yes, yes, of course, of course. And now my friends are piling up behind me and they're all like, no, it's true. He really did write this film. And somehow I talked my way back in, but I was kicked out of my own maze. So there you go.
It's all the metaphor fucking hell is the same true with Insidious? And how that also is another bahema for or you did you stay more involved in.
I did stay a little more involved with Insidious the third film I directed. That was my first film as a director. So that third film probably has the most resonance for me of all of them, because yeah, well just because I was like, wow, where have you been all my life directing? Like I feel like, you know, before I directed that film, I was happy being a writer and I was writing films for James, and we were this team. That's the way I kind of saw us, you know, like we're a duo. And then he went off into Blockbuster world. He went off and did a fast and furious movie, and I knew when he did that that he wasn't coming back from that world. It was like a breakup. I remember thinking, who am I without James. It was a bit of an identity crisis, and you know, I felt like, wow, I was in the Beatles. Do I now have to start wings? Do I have to go and find another collaborator? And then Jason Blum, God bless him, he was the one who rescued from this little breakup funk. He was like, Buddy, Buddy, what are you doing next? I know what you're doing next. You're directing the third movie, buddy, And I was like what. And I think I had plans to direct, but in my mind it was always going to be like an original film, something small, something. But he shoved me into this sequel, and actually it turned out to be a great first movie because I knew the world, already, knew the characters, so it was a great way to start. So yeah, I think I think you're right. I think I am more involved with the Insidious movies a little bit. I'm still only an executive producer. You know, I'm not writing them, I'm not directing them. But I'm still, you know, definitely more involved than I am in the Saw movies for sure.
When again, you don't have to ask if this is I'm fascinated in partnerships, and I understand everyone evolves in changed. When James went and did the Fast and Furious, was it like a conversation, like as in when you felt like, oh, this is a breakup. Was a conversation had or was it like I'll see you soon and you thought, no, you won't. Was it like an official do this thing on my own? Or did it just kind of happen.
It definitely wasn't a conversation. You know, James and I have always had a great creative relationship and we bond over the same things. We always loved the same movies, but we were not Maybe it's being an Australian. You know, I'm Australian, and you know, James was born in Malaysia but spent a lot of his youth in Australia. So maybe it's a male thing. But we it's like don't It's like avoid the sensitive subjects. So it's like there was never a conversation of like, hey, just so you know, I'm going off and I'm never coming back. It was, yeah, there was. It was not the Matthew McConaughey scene from Interstellar where he drove away from the ranch in tears. It was like, one day I just woke up and realized that he wasn't coming back from that world and that I needed to figure out what I wanted to do because you know, I was his screenwriter by default before, because who else is going to write these movies that he wanted? Now now, when you're playing around in that blockbuster world, the studio is like, James, you know we can afford David cap You really want to bring your film score buddy along, you know, like the time for charity is over.
And I think it was good.
I mean I think it's good to be shoved out of the aeroplane when you're learning to skydive or whatever. It's like, yeah, oftentimes we won't change ourselves until someone pushes us into this uncomfortable place, and then in hindsight, you think, why was I ever afraid to do this or what was you know. Thank god I didn't get myself stuck in a rut, you know. So I'm kind of, you know, in retrospect, I'm glad that it all happened the way it happened. I do feel a little bit like I came to directing late. I feel like James got such an early start. He directed that first Saw movie in his twenties, when there was still a monoculture, you know, like he caught the last gasps of like driving to movie theaters on opening night and seeing like a line around the block, like the whole Star Wars thing, these nostalgic photos of this bygone era when movies were important and people would would line up patiently to see them on a Friday night. He got that, and I feel like I'm making up for lost time now, like trying to make movies and get as many as I can done, you.
Know, all fascinating. Here's the thing.
Invisible Man is fucking brilliant. I think it's a brilliant, brilliant film. And I also think it may be similar to the Thing of Sauw Invisible Man on paper. It's a really hard film to do, really like it sounds stupid. It's like, you know they did The Mummy wasn't good, you know what I mean. It's a character that you go, I don't know how you're going to do this and not make it silly or you know, there's been so many versions in and when I heard someone's doing in Visible and I was like, Okay, this will probably.
I don't know. I had no take on it, you know what I mean?
And then I watched your film, and not only is it fucking brilliant, it's so brilliant, but it also is like and the way that when you talk about the original sore it's about something, it's really deep. Your Invisible Man is is like profound, Like it's a serious subject done in a very entertaining way, but it's like, for real, legit serious. It's an issue movie. It's basically an issue movie that's really fucking fun and scary. And the beginning of there's two sequents in it that I think a musterpiece is the opening is a musterpiece.
One of the great openings to a film.
Oh thank you.
I love that.
In Stories, the beginning of the film, we're in the middle of the film and we have to catch up.
It's like, what the fuck is going on?
I feel very excited and I don't know why, and I'm having to piece together what is happening here? Why is she? What's going on? And you're kind of piecing it as it's happening, and it's thrilling. And then you have the amazing, amazing sequence in the restaurant, which is like one of the great junk scares shocks, Like right, it's so brilliant because it's like such a rare thing to achieve where it essentially comes out of nowhere, and yet of course it doesn't come out and know where it's all been set up, and it's so shocking. God, it's good. It's a very very good film. Congratulations to you, but gosh, curious. And now you're making wolf Man or you've made it and it's coming out very soon, and again it's like, I don't know what you do with that, And I'm now, having seen Invisible Man, very excited to know what your take is on wolf Man.
Do you want to tell us or is it all secret? Would you rather not talk about it?
I could talk about it a little bit. I mean, I guess my take on it was much like The Invisible Man, to ground it in our world and to take it out of a supernatural realms, something that was driven by the occult. I love that stuff. I just think this I wanted to push it in a more humaniust direction, something that was you talked about Invisible Man, and I appreciate all those complim by the way. I'm wondering if I could just get that bit of audio from you and somehow liquefy it and inject it into my face, you see that exactly, if we can find a way to put your words in a blender. But like you said, with The Invisible Man, you felt like it was about something, and I felt like the film was on rails for me because that was the story that immediately presented itself in my mind. When I thought about A Visible Man, the very first thought I had was, well, this film has to be told from the point of view of the Invisible Man's victim. You know so many Invisible Man movies. It would be it would be his story, and you know, it's hard to be scary when you're so close to the antagonist. I felt like a scarier movie would be one where someone was sitting in a room and was sure that someone else was in the room with them, they couldn't see them, And that to me, you can make a movie out of that idea. And so once you start building that idea out, you say, Okay, so someone's sitting in a room and they're not sure, Well, if someone's there or someone's not there, in what situation would that happen? Okay, So it's a woman afraid of her her ex partner, he's an abusive partner, and the story starts building itself brickbride brick, and it becomes about what you said it was about. Suddenly you're talking about someone being stalked, abused, tortured, psychologically, gas lit, and pretty soon you have a movie. Hopefully. It was the same with wolf Man. I was thinking, okay, so.
Can I sorry, Can I stop me for one second? Were you were you approached like, hey, do you want to make a monster movie? You can have any of these titles? Or did you say I want to do Invisible Man, I've got this idea.
I did not say that to anyone. I didn't say to anyone I've got an idea, or I have to make the Invisible Man. I'll tell you the story quickly what happened because it's hilarious. Now the story has to be hilarious. Geez, I really set me up my profoilia with Alan. What happened was I had just finished making Upgrade. I don't even know if I had finished post. I was still putting the finishing touches on it, Butsill had seen it. And then they called me in for a general meeting, Peter Kramer, the president of production. So of course I thought, he's just seen my film and he's calling me in for a meeting. He must want to tell me how great the film is, and by extension of that, how great I am. And so, you know, as a screenwriter in desperate need of compliments, I got to the meeting as fast as I could and sat down ready for my compliment bath. And I think Peter spent maybe eight seconds on Upgrade. He was done with Upgrade before. And then we were chit chatting about the weather, and I was sitting there thinking like, wait, what happened to you telling me it's the greatest film you've ever seen? And he did none of that, and so I just remember thinking, what is this meeting about? You know? And yeah, I was just thinking what's happening? And it felt like we were just having a chat like two friends catching up for lunch. And I'm thinking, that's fine. He's a great guy. But and then out of nowhere, he says, you know these monster movies. God, you know, we really we merely made a misstep with the Mummy. And I'm sitting there going, oh, yeah, it was it was fine, you know he said, no, it wasn't or whatever. And then after a few minutes, talking about the mistakes he felt Universal had made trying to launch this Monster universe, he just said, to be fair to the writers of the Mummy, these movies are difficult to write because if the Invisible Man is the good guy, who's the bad guy? What scares the invisible Man? And I just said, well, he's not the good guy, he's the bad guy. And that was all I said. And it was just something to say in a meeting. And then I walked out and my agent called me and said they love your take on the Invisible they want to hire you to write it. And I was like, what take And he said whatever you pitched them in the room, and I said I didn't pitch anything. All I said was he should be the bad guy. Why would you make the invisible man the good guy. He's a villain, he's a monster. And my agent said, well, whatever it was, he said, they really love it and they want to commission you to write it. And so the whole thing was an accident. And I guess it's proof that, especially in the film businesses in LA there's so much stuff flying through the air at all times, people throwing ideas that you're buying IP and buying books. It's just this like whirlwind of stuff. Sometimes it's not a passion project that's lived with you for five years. Sometimes something just buonks you in the head, you know, And like I think, in all honesty, I think within two weeks I was writing that movie within two weeks, and I have I don't know if this is good for a podcast. I just want to see if I can pull it out, because hang on, one second, where is it. I've got a stack of scripts here of my scripts, and then I also have other people scripts. By the way, listeners, I don't sit there reading my own scripts. But you mentioned that scene before, the throat cutting scene, and to me, screenwriting is tough at the best of times. I'm envious of people who will go on podcasts and say, oh, it's fun, it's fun, because I'm like, you're so lucky that. But there are moments when you are having fun, when you're locked in and you write something and it's like I write freehand first in a notepad, and sometimes when you're really locked in and you're loving it, it's like your hand is can't move as fast as your brain is moving. But that scene with the throat cut, I remember writing that, and I remember thinking it was so fun to write because I can I just read. Can I do a disclaimer for anyone listening. I'm not reading this to say, like, listen, listen to this extraordinary writing, screenwriting like this should be etched in stone in a museum. I'm not doing that. I am Australian. I'm genetically programmed to be self deprecating. But I just want to read it because I had so much fun writing it. So it says Cecilia, Adrian's brother lied to us. He's not dead. I can prove it, Emily, Howe Cecilia. I went to his house today and I found something, something that proves what I'm experiencing. Emily, what are you experiencing, Cecilia, I can sense. And then she stops talking because the strange look has come over Emily's face, a look of sudden shock. A knife, the same kitchen knife Cecilia found in the attic, is hovering in midair over Cecilia's right shoulder. Cecilia turns to see it, and as soon as she does, the blade arcs through the air and slashes Emily's throat. It's so quick and silent that it doesn't seem to have happened. A look of surprise rather than pain on Emily's face until the skin on her throat opens up, blood gushing out so quickly that there is no drama to it, just immediate emergency. Emily can't speak. She coughs out one last protest before gripping her neck. The knife smacks into Cecilia's hand before she has time to register any of this, and then the screaming starts. It's fun to write, like sometimes it doesn't always happen. It plays, it reads, I know. It's it's like there's those moments. There's those moments when you're writing when you're like, oh, I cannot wait to shoot this. Yeah, and then and then there's many many other moments where you're like, how the fuck are they going to shoot this?
How did you shoot that? Was? Was it a man in green? Like how did you?
Yeah? It was like a green body suit and it's very like comically practical, like a stick holding the knife. But anyway, I feel like I got us off so far off track. But because you were asking about Wolfman.
But Wolfman, Yes.
It was very, It was very I'm telling that story about how Invisible Man came about. Wolfman was was something they pitched to me, and it was a similar thing of thinking like, Okay, what's this movie about? And does these seem to be the thing that presented itself? Like that's just something that scares the hell out of me in real life, like degenerative illnesses, whether it's cancer or Alzheimer's or whatever it is. It's terrifying to me. And I think it's come up in all of my work. I mean, Saul was about a guy with brain cancer, like in Upgrade, the guy in City as the kid won't wake up, like I have this peep ski here. Every every film I've ever made, you know, there's always some disease, and so that that of course is where my brain went.
Yeah, so it's like Body Horror.
Yeah, and I think and I think probably Wolfman's the first time I've like leaned all the way into body Horror. I think there was flashes of it in Upgrade, and but Wolfman is like the fly in like all the way you know, you know, like Cronenberg in. So so yeah, hopefully it resonates with somebody fascinating.
Oh, this is fascinating. But I've forgotten to tell you something.
You know, this is the great problem of all podcasts whenever you know, what I find really annoying, and I hope I haven't done this to you, is when the person asks a really interesting question and then the person, with the freedom of time that podcasts have, people will go off track, which is how people really talk, and I'll be like, as a listener, I'll be like, no, no, go back to that question, because I really wanted to hear the answer to that question. So I hope I am now not portrating a crime that I have accused off.
I took you off track because I asked you about one, but we did come back right right on the rails.
But I did forget to tell you that you've died, You're dead.
Oh I've died, I'm dead. Huh okay, great, this is the twist at the end of the sixth sense.
How did you die?
How did I die?
How would you like today?
How would I like to die?
Yeah?
Oh, I mean this is easy for me given my fear. I was reading the other day.
I was reading the Wikipedia page for like, was it Gregory peck or maybe it was Jimmy Stewart, but it was one of these old Hollywood rates, these Hollywood actors, and it said, you know, they had the Wikipedia's like early life, you know, education, career, and then death.
And I remember it said, whether it was Jimmy Stewart or Gregory Peckett, said so and so died in their home, in their sleep, surrounded by family of natural causes. I'm like film, That's what I want my Wikipedia page to be. I want to be. I want to be surrounded by family, still be able to talk and be like, it's been really great knowing you, and then go to sleep and just drift off into the God. That is it. That is what needs to be achieved.
Okay, So you have a nice bobe of everyone and then you die in your sleep. What I mean, we don't know what happened in your sleep you die?
No, Yeah, i'd say that it's like super something and eat super painless, super painless. I want it to be like when they give you a general anesthetic. You know, I don't know if you've ever had one, but you'll be in there. They always say to you like, all right, so we're going to count down from ten or whatever, and you're like, every time I've done one of those, I'll be like, before I do the countdown, I'll be like, you know the funny thing about and then I'll just it'll just edit, It'll just jump up to me in a room and I'm like, when do we start? And then some person's like, oh you're awake, and I'm like, what just happened? That is what I need death to be. Just needed to be like three two, like I don't let me get to one. Just oblivion.
Okay, all right, this is a good death. And what do you think? Do you worry about death? I mean you do? You're so worried about disease.
I do, I think I do? I mean, yes, I don't worry about death itself being dead because being dead, Look, it's either one of two things. I'll say I'm agnostic. You're either in the afterlife, which means you're some ethereal invincible entity floating around talking to your grandparents and maybe Elvis. Or death just feels like that general anesthesia. It's just we've already been dead, all of us. You know, I was born in nineteen ninety nine. Now I was born in nineteen seventy seven, and that means I was dead in nineteen seventy six. So it's not being dead I'm afraid of. It's dying. It's the pain of It's that moment being alive and knowing that you're dying is the fearful part and the pain of that. So I guess lucky for me, I think either option is great. If I'm floating around talking to my relatives and all the dearly departed in Beetlejuice Land, I'm okay with that. But I'm also okay with it just being oblivion. And because you won't. The good thing is all these people that put their entire life's faith into some afterlife, they'll never get to find out they were wrong if they are wrong. I almost wish there was a five minute period between where bodily death and brain death where someone showed up with a with a letter and said, I hate to tell you this, but you wasted your life. There is no heav I'm exactly none of those None of those people will will never have the satisfaction of them being told that they were wrong, that they killed others for a god that doesn't exist.
You know, Well, it's actually door number one. There is a heaven.
Exactly, there is Oh, good, good, good great.
There's filled with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
My favorite thing in the world of all the fiends in the world. Yeah, I love because you said thing that's such a wide the other thing you would, but it's filled with it. Well, nostalgia is my favorite thing. So I feel like I would walk through that door into like a nineteen eighties pizza hut, and there would be like then and I would be I would just be on a loop in like nineteen eighty seven. And my other favorite thing is food, so then the food would be great in this realm. Like you know, we spend so much of our lives eating. So I think it's okay to be someone that loves food, because it's if you don't love it. You're in for a hell of a time because you're going to have to spend a lot of your life. So there would be great food in this nostalgic realm that I've invented.
All right, so you're in heaven. It's the nineteen eighties pizza hut, but it's got food of all types. And there are characters dressed as teenage mutant ninja turtles serving you food.
Oh yeah, they're running around. There's arcade machines in the corner. I walk out the movie theater. There's a line around the block because movies are super important. The Internet isn't even a glimmer, and yeah, it's inventors.
I yet the theme tune to Say by the Bell is blaring through speakers.
You haven't Yeah, yeah, yeah, great.
Then I'm having a great time. I'm having a great time. And the film that they're learning around the block for is my film. So I'm like, I'm not even viewing it as a consumer. I'm like, yeah, I did that, I did that, and I think so, I think so that this sounds pretty great to me.
It's pretty great.
And everyone wants to talk to you, but they want to talk to you about your life through film, and the first thing they ask you is what is the first film you remember seeing?
Lee? What else?
The first film I remember seeing is Peter Pan, the animated Disney film. So you know, it's that funny thing when you're that young. So I must have been four years old or five years old, when when you're that young your memories can get confused. Have you ever had one of those conversations with one of your siblings where you'll say, like, remember that time you broke your leg and they'll say, I never broke my leg. You did, And you know, all of a sudden, this is crazy moment where you're like, you know, it's the ending of the usual suspects, like yeah, exactly, the camera spinning around you. You're like, what my life is a lie? Like I quick be wrong, but I do remember my mom. So I was growing up in the suburbs of Melbourne in Australia. She came and picked my brother and I up from a swimming lesson. We were at an outdoor swimming pool and she said we're going to see a movie and I was like, that's an option, and she took us to this movie theater and I remember still to this day, the animated Peter Pan hits some deep cord of like the first image you saw that was like magic in that way that movies are. I guess this was early eighties, you know, in that time when Disney movies would they would keep bringing them back into theaters, you know, so it was it was a magical experience.
That's freaking great. What is the film that made you cry the most? Are you a crayer?
Oh yeah, Oh yes, I'm one of those people that can cry pondering something up in a second, a commercial like I'm a quick path to a cry. I have to admit, et is. I watched it recently. It is bulletproof when it comes to getting those tear ducts. It's it's such a great movie. But isn't it? Isn't it interesting? How I watched a video recently on YouTube? And this is one of the great things the Internet has given the world, especially for a nostalgist like me and I'm guessing you too, is instant access to like every any any time you're like walking along and you're like, ah, remember that commercial that I used to love as a kid. A couple of clicks of your fingers and it's there. So I was watching this clip on YouTube the other day. You might have seen it. It's the one where Steven Spielberg and John Williams are together and John Williams he's at the piano and he's writing the score to ET in real time and Spielberg's giving him notes. It's this incredible video. It's only five minutes long, but that video made me cry just hearing them, just hearing the music. So I just think that film has such a power. And there are other movies that are more tragic, you know, Dancer in the Dark, you know The Elephant Man. There are movies that are just so profoundly sad, you know, The Pianist. These there are movies with greater injustice. But I've seen ET a lot, and even though it makes you cry, it's not any less fun. Like, don't I don't think you sign up for Dancer in the Dark fun to have a fun time. You know, you are locked in and god.
You know.
I remember watching that film Bloody Sunday Paul Greengrass, and it was so powerful and affecting and I was sobbing, but I was angry at the world at this injustice. I just remember being so angry about it, and I guess et it makes you cry in a way that somehow leaves you feeling good about the world.
Yeah. Fun.
Sorry, I think I'm giving long answers to these questions. I should probably be shorter. But anyway, it's fun to talk about this lot.
No, I love it.
We have.
If we run out of time, we'll just have questions I'd rather get now. Look, you've made some of the great horror films. What is the film that scared you the most?
Lewero.
I would say the shining to me, has a power that it's really interesting with the shining, And I wonder what your view on this is. I remember showing it. I remember before we did Insidious three, I used to have this outdoor movie screen at my previous house and I would watch We would watch movies in the back and it was so fun in sitting bean bags and watch these movies. And I remember I put a little screening on in my backyard of the shining for the cast and the crew, the principal crew, and I noticed a lot of younger people were there were kind of bored by the shining. I think the pacing of the shining is very reflective of a different time and the way younger people experience horror films now because it doesn't have you know, jump scares have become such an embedded part of horror movies these days, people always almost expect it. It's like even studios you work with will say, well, where's the jump scares? That if you look at a film like The Shining, it's not trafficking in that type of sort of historyonic editing. But I just think there's something about that film that, even if I watched it today late at night, it gets to me on such a you know, such a big level. I mean, how do you feel about the pacing of that and the way younger people react to a movie like that now?
I think that's probably true. I mean, The Shining is such a weird I've seen it a hundred times and I think it's amazing, But every time I watch it, I'm like, it's such a weird film. It's very strange, it's kind of hypnotic. But also when you like break down the kind of storytelling of it, like it is weird, like he's mad at the beginning, It isn't a dessent into madness like scene one when he's at the interview, like this guy is mad. Yeah, it's sort of weird because you kind of think, regardless of this source material of that, you go the story on paper, you got the obvious way to tell the story is this man over time becomes mad in this place. But he's fucking mad day one. And there's this hypnotic thing with the steady cam and the kid on wheels, and I think it's utterly terrifying when he when hit the woman in the bath. That's for me, it's like, oh.
God, that is so really it's so scary. And also also the prior scene when the kid stops just looks up at the open door, it's I don't know what is going on with that movie. Beneath the surface, And I agree with you about this strange It doesn't follow this regular Hollywood arc of like you started in one place. It's this ethereal tone poem. It doesn't even at the end the last shot when you see Jack Nicholson in the photo like he's been there. It's almost like at that point I question whether the movie even really happened, like whether it happened in the mind of almost like you were seeing the movie from the point of view of ghosts, that they were always ghosts and that he was like like like they say that or sometimes a version of hell is just this repetitive, this cycle, this sort of sysopian cycle of almost like they'll just keep he'll keep going to that job interview, and you'll get that job, and he'll go back and then they'll just get it. And imagine like that's maybe what we're watching. And obviously people have a million interpretations. They've made a whole documentary just about Shining theories. I just I love it. I mean, you can't you can't choose what scares you. It's just like you can't choose what makes you laugh. It's an involuntary reaction. I don't know why The Shining is the film that scares me the most. It just is. It also happens to be a pretty unoriginal answer, because if you pulled ten people on your podcast and said what's the scariest movie you've ever seen, eight of them would probably say The Shining. I also think like, maybe the second scariest movie I've ever seen is the Twin Peaks movie fire Walk with Me.
That is the scariest movie ever made.
It is so terrifying in the same way in this Lynching, you don't understand it. It is not setting out to tell you a story. It is putting you in this place that is it is so scary, So I would I would put that a close second. And maybe that's maybe that's a more quote unquote original answer, But.
Shining I've ever seen. Number one.
Are you are you talking about specifically the movie that he made, I think all of the series, or are you just talking about the series.
I'm talking Well, the series was the scariest thing I had ever seen when I was young, and then the film I think is scarier.
The film is so scary, and.
They're so deeply scary, just.
Him climbing through the windows. I'd probably number one most horrifying.
It's so scary, that whole scene where Laura Palmer is out and about and that log lady says like there's a man under the fan, and she goes back home and she walks to me, you know what. You know what? Lynch is a master at obviously a master at many many things. One thing he does so well is capturing a look of horror on someone's face. I don't know of any other director when when she walks in and looks like it's so scary, just the way people look. I don't know what he's telling his act to do or whether it's the contrast, it's the sound design. There's some alchemy, some devilish alchemy that he is working with that is so scary. Remember the shot in the first episode of Twin Peaks, there's the last shot of that first episode is Laura Harmer's mother is sitting on the couch and she sits in here and just does this. The look on her face is so scary, it's crazy. I totally agree with you. So yeah, he's like that.
I've just thought from what you've said, it's almost like David Lynch is the opposite of Stephen Spielbergs. The more I watch Steven Spielberg's films, I'm like, Oh, the thing he does so well is faces of awe. He does you know, you think of Jurassic Pipe, think of et It's people's face yes, going wow, oh my god, this magical thing is happening. He's so good at faces of wonder. And then David Lynch is the opposite. David Lynch's like faces of terror. And that's part of what in the same way that the the here's the dinosaur and here's the face. We see the face first, like holy shit, and then we see the dinosaurs. So we're prying emotionally like to wonder. And with David Lynch, it's like terror terror terror face just a fan and you're like.
And it's it's it's how he like with Spielberg that that lassic Spielberg shot of someone looking at something with awe. There's that push into their face and there's you know, the winds going in their hair, maybe their hat comes off, and the camera kind of it's kind of moves downwards, so it gives whatever they're looking at is gargantuan, mind blowing. It's a it's a dinosaur, it's a spaceship. With Lynch, it's the opposite. He's not pushing in towards them. The character is so scared of what they're seeing that you cut like, you don't even have to see it to be scared. It will almost ruin it. It would almost ruin it. Oh man, Yeah, you're totally right. And then it's funny to see the you know, the it's such like when David Lynch did that cameo in the Bablemans. It was like, yeah, it's like you can of them as vastly different, but then what you pointed out it kind of puts them in the in a similar cat You know.
The thing of the Shining that I was thinking is you know another film that started small and then became a behemoth that I really am a huge fan of his Paranormal Activity. I think particularly the original Paranormactivity scared the shit out of me. And it's so simple. But what it does is and I'm sure you did it. I'm sure all horror does this, but I noticed it so clearly in paranorm Activity is that it does a very simple, clever thing of it. Here's this shot, this locked off shot of their bedroom at night. They're filming their bedroom at night, and the shot is just it doesn't move. There's the door, there's the bed, and you just watch it and then you go back to their day and then you come back to this shot. So it's training you to look for trouble. Yeah, it's like, here's a still shot your your brain.
You're but you're.
Nothing happens for quite a long and then the door slams and you jump because you're you're waiting. You're looking in this rain, some trouble is going to happen. That is what you are trained by the film. And in the shining corridors, corridors, corridors, kid on the tricycle, corridors, corridors, corridors, and it's kind of the same, and it's the same, and then when it's not the same, it's fucking terrifying because you've been trained like something's coming, something's coming, something.
Coming, Yeah, you're right, and it's And it's also this big empty space. The hotel is supposed to be filled with people. So if you think, if you think about a corridor with all those doors in a hotel, each door has people behind it. When when the hotel is supposed to be empty, that's where the film plays this great psychological trick on you, because you're looking down that corridor thinking somebody's there. It's the same reason if we go down stairs at night to get a drink or something, it's the middle of the night, it's supposed to be empty. I always think that my horror screenwriter's brain does this. If I go downstairs, I always think, like if I looked up and just saw someone in the corner, of the kitchen just looking at me or someone outside pressed up against the glass, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's that's what the shining can do. Like, yeah, there's not supposed to be anyone there, but the possibility of this, of there being someone there is scary. So that was a genius move on Stephen King's part. And then I think Stanley Kubrick really just executed the idea of an empty hotel really well.
Overy good stuff.
All Right, what is the film that you used to love? But you what's too recently? You're going, I don't like this no more. Maybe you've changed.
You know, a movie I loved when I was a kid who watched a lot. I really wore out this VHS tape, saw it recently, and look, before I say this, can I just start with the disclaimer that I usually hate anything negative because it's so hard to make a movie, and I've made a film about a killer ventriloquis puppet, so I'm the last person in the world who could criticize anyone. But okay, I'll say this a movie I watched. It doesn't hold up. Conan the Destroyer, the sequel to Conan the Barbarian. I loved that movie as a kid. Bought it recently, I was like, Wow, this isn't what I remember. And I still love Conan the Barbarian the original, but it's just I feel like the sequel was really rushed and just I guess when you're a kid, you're so forgiving about certain production things. The cheapness of something isn't really hitting you, and then all of a sudden you can see the wires a bit more. And so I'm sure that film was rushed into production, you know, to capitalize on the first movie, but it just didn't have didn't have it didn't have that power of the first movie.
Yeah, what is the film that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is good because the experience you had seeing the film makes it always important to you.
Lewell, what's that?
Oh okay, I would say, look again, it's probably not an I know it's not an original answer, but the original style I saw in theaters. I'm old enough that I saw it in theaters. It was doing that, you know. Obviously it came out in seventy seven, the year I was born. But obviously back then, pre VHS movies would have a much longer time in theaters. So the power of that experience, the power of that opening shot, you know, the spaceship cruising over, it's such a religious experience, especially for that time. You know. I think now kids are spoiled with movies that you know, CGI, the movie, every movie utilizes CGI in a huge way, and so it's it might be hard for someone who's ten years old now to imagine a time where it wasn't possible to just do anything. But in a way, I think the danger with CGI is that if you can do anything, nothing means anything.
I agree with that, I completely agree with that.
Yeah, it's there's a certain numbness. If I meant the movie theater and I see a trailer for a movie and there's a shot of the city of London being wiped out by a tidal wave, it doesn't impress me anymore. It doesn't fill me with awe because I'm aware that there was a team of visual effects artists who achieved that, and now that I might still love the movie. The movie could be good.
You know.
To me, the question in the age of CGI becomes not you know, what can you do? You can do anything. It's how you do it and what you choose to do. Like Christopher Nolan inception, he chose to use visual effects to like fold Paris in half. So there's an image I haven't seen before. I've seen a million, I've seen a million alien races. Try to wipe out Manhattan, you know, I've seen that. But he's utilizing it to do something you haven't seen, and I think that becomes the more important question. So in the year of Star Wars, that opening shot was just mind blowing that this is where you were, and it just affected me in a huge way. Back then, I wouldn't say I'm like a hardcore Star Wars fan.
Now.
I still love those original movies that I grew up with, but I think the experience of watching Star Wars that first time was so important, just shaped for millions of people.
You know.
You know, so, yeah, pretty good, that's probably it. Yeah.
I just am always like, I know, and I feel disrespectful because I know how hard people work on it, et cetera. But for me, I'm often like when I watched that King Kong, I'm like, there's something about if the actor is not touching the thing, no matter how good the thing is, drawn, is articulated. It's like, I know it's not there. It doesn't feel like it's there, no matter how good it's rendered. It's like there's no Like the original original King Kong is better because it's stop. You can see it's there, even though it's a miniature, it's a thing. It's like it's physically in the room physically.
Yeah, I know, I do. Yeah, I really do agree with you. It's funny because the original Jurassic Park film is hailed as this milestone in visual effects. It was the birth of the CGI era, and that's what everybody points to. Like, my god, but the most effective sequence for me in Jurassic Park is the t Rex attack on the cars, and a lot of it's practical. All those that foot, that stomps down in the mud, that iconic shot, the breath blowing, that's all. That's a huge puppet built by Stan Winston. Like what was beautiful about it was the marriage of the CGI. So like there was a big wide shot when the t Rex first crashed through the fence and we see the whole thing that's obviously CGI, but it's being beautifully used with these practical elements. So, like you said, if my brain knows that that creature isn't really there, it's hard for me to attach emotionally to it. I don't know. I don't know. It's a tough question because when I see snol and films and I see how much he does practically, still, I realized that, oh, you can still do it like that. People will tell you it can't be done that way, but he's doing it, so it's obviously still an option.
I think it's it's right, it's the mix. You have to mix them up and just hide it more. But I think if it's all, I don't know. Listen, I'm sure people are very annoyed hearing this.
I know CGI has become such a boogeyman, and yeah, I don't want to pick on it. There's such talented people, and I see I saw this video online recently where it was basically calling out all these actors who would say, you know, this whole film is practical, and then meanwhile they would cut to all the visual effects and it was like is it? And so I would never like wolf man that I just made. It's very practical, but you know there's a visual effects component. It's not necessarily it's not the look of the wolf that that is not CG. That's practical, but CGI has to be used. It's the most valuable rule in so many ways. Oh god, yeah, you're adding more trees, like just really practical things that no one ever talks about, Like, oh shit, we caught the boom operator in that shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, now you can just painting him out, Like that's crazy that you can do that.
Now.
There wasn't an option in nineteen eighty five. If you caught the boom operator in the reflection of the glass, you had to live with it. I give them extra credit for the amount of mistakes that they avoided back then because they didn't have that instant fix option.
And it's physics. It's what you were saying about the foot in. Often when CDI action happens, there's something off about the physics of it ground like, especially.
When when a human body is falling through space, like when the Superhero is I'm just like, the physics of that are off. That's not how a human body looks when it falls to the ground. Yeah. That gets me every time. It does take me out of the movie. I don't want to add to the chorus of people demonizing CGI because I use a lot and I love it. But I do agree with you about physics. There needs to be some marriage of CGI and practical so that each can compliment the other as opposed to relying on just one of them.
You know what is the sexiest film I've ever seen?
All Right, let's talk about this. Okay, let's talk. Let's look. I think I'm going to go look. Okay. When I was a younger man, when I was a teenager, I had my biggest crush was on Jennifer Conley and.
The film.
Yeah, yes, I remember seeing the film The Hot Spot. Now, this is not a well known film, directed by Dennis Hopper Don Johnson. Don Johnson played the lead. A lot of people would say, well, of course you loved it. Jennifer Conley is doing nude scenes in this movie. Now you might be correct about that. But the movie itself, it also has Virginia Madson in it, and the movie itself is sexy. I feel like the whole movie is just about sex. They're all wanting to have sex, They're all talking about sex. The mood of it is, and so that for me, I was so in love with Jennifer Conley that the movie nudity or not. The movie had a profound effect on me. You know, they what was I watching the other night at the Shawshank Redemption. There's a moment where they're all watching Rita Hayworth and she flips her hair up and like it's like in the nineteen forties, Rita Hayworth's flipping her hair was basically as good as a strip tease, And so I was kind of I was kind of chuckling about that, Like, you know, all these guys like check out her dams and Jennifer Connley emerging from a lake in that movie, you know, in a bikini or whatever. That's my Reata Hayworth moment. Like I was so in love with her, it was I was heartsick. So yeah, it sounds like you said, we're the same person. You went through the.
Same I loved Jennifer so much, and I know that film very well, and it's a great choice. There's a subcategory traveling. Boner's worrying, why don't a film he found a rousing that you worked or you should?
Oh. I feel like there's been a couple of anime films I remember watching as a teenager where I was just like, I don't think you're supposed to be feeling lustful about an animated character. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go with them. Yeah. There's a couple of animes where I'm like, wow, I'm very attracted to this pretend drawn person. Yeah, exactly.
What is objectively the greatest film of all tape might not be your favorite, but it's the pinniclet of cinema.
You know, I feel like I am not giving you interesting because I feel like when you say to me, what's the scariest movie the shining what movie had the biggest impact on you? Star Wars, Like, it's kind of like.
You're giving really interesting detail on each day.
So it's f Yeah, I think I'm giving the detail to make up for the fact that the answers are so standard, like oh really like And I feel a lot of times when I'll see an interview with someone like this and they'll say, okay, top five favorite albums or you know you're in the Criterion closet. The whole point is to I feel like the subtext of the whole thing is let me show you how much knowledge I have, or how let me show you I want to talk about a movie you've never heard of, and therefore demonstrate my deep knowledge. So talking about Star Wars, I'm definitely not in the Criterion closet here. But I say all this because my answer to this question is the stock standard answer. I have to say. I agree with the critics on this one. I do think that Citizen Kane is a master work of cinema. It still moves quickly today. That movie still moves, and it's so innovative. Like a lot of times, when you go back and watch movies from that era, they're so rigid. Right you're looking at a camera, the camera's not moving, You're looking at Humphrey Bogart, and you know they're can fined in some studio, in some backlot, and the thing that's supposed to be interesting is the dialogue or whatever. Citizen Kane was doing things that it's incredible to me that he was doing it in that era, pushing through windows. It's really exciting to me. And I give him so much credit because he was doing it in a time when that stuff was next to him possible. I give that film so much credit. Objectively, I might say that Chinatown is the greatest film of all time. It's just a brilliant ending that resonates. It's this stunning movie. And so it would be between Chinatown and Citizen Kane, which, again I know there's stocked standard answers, but I have to give Citizen Kane credit for the innovations in that time and the fact that it's still I don't know if you've watched it recently, but it.
Really moves really good. It's not boring. That's what's amazing about it. You assume it's going to be boring, and it's really quite thrillly.
It's incredibly not. And you know, sometimes you do go back and watch a film from that era and it feels like homework, like even I don't want to name names, even going back and watching a film like The Big Sleep, and I love old noir films, I love Doublin Demnity, but sometimes I'm like, this is so far removed from my sensibility. It's really not speaking to me, these these static shots of people talking in a room. Citizen Kane isn't like that. And the performances that the fact that he used these theatrically trained actors rather than movie stars who had movie star ticks like today, buddy, like the acting. I really your question was what is objectively the best movie of all time? And I really do think the critics got it right with that movie, and they do with a lot of movies. Seventh Samurai is still brilliant. But sorry. Anyway, that's my unpacking of my boring answer to that question.
Not boring, that'sinating. Now I've got like six minutes left. I'm going to we could do a lightning round. We're going to Okay, let's do lightning round to get that answers.
I want too long answers.
Just tell me the films that that people aren't mad that we've missed out with Andy, what is the film you most relate to?
I'm going to go with adaptation. I remember and I saw that movie The Madness because I'm a screenwriter. When I watched this person driving themselves mad, trying to just type something out, I'm like this his neuroses about it all, and then watching other people just do it with ease. That movie just speaks to my life.
So there you go, perfect filming. What's the most over and over again?
Holy shit, I'm going to say the most movie of all time? For me, it would be it would be close between Jaws and the Thing, but I'm going to give it to Jaws because I didn't watch I didn't start watching the Thing until I was a teenager, and I started watching Jaws when I was six Jaws.
You can skip this one. If you want worst film of the worst film I ever saw?
Oh you know what, Okay, I'll give you one. I used to review movies on a TV show in Australia, so I would when I was nineteen years old, and you can see it on the internet if you really want to look. I watched the film Freddie Got Fingered starring Tom Tom Is it Tom Green? I think even he would admit that he was trying to I don't know what's happening with that movie, but it's I would I'm going to pick that.
Okay. What is the film that made you laugh the most big Lebowski?
Big Lebowski? I think I watched The Anchorman the other night, which I hadn't seen in a while, and I was really laughing. I was like, God, this is hilarious. But the big the big Lebowski is the gift that keeps on giving, never gets old. In each little line, they're gonna kill that poor woman like Cher. It's like, it's just amazing, Dnie, You're out of your element.
Film you love, but there's not physically a claimed.
I love Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. This movie Mad Max too right is so held up rightfully. So it's such a brilliant movie. It's it's one of my top five favorite movies of all time. It will never be out of the top five, my ever changing top five movies. It's it might shift from two to four, but it's in there. I don't know why people don't give Thunderdome the love. I feel like it's that last section they were like, oh what just another chase with it really is it continues the world building, and it's it's really watchable and I just I love it and I refuse to join the chorus of people saying it's an inferior movie.
So you've been brilliant. I've loved talking to you.
However, when you are old, you're lying in bed and your family is around you, you've got your fan around and you say, guys, I just want to say I've had a great time.
You've all been You've been great.
I'll miss you most of all scarecrow, and then you say, give me that, give me that general, and someone puts the general and they go put too much in, put way too much, and they go count count to ten and you go, yeah, well the thing is and then you your heart explodes dead and your family are dancing around you, and I hear music and I go, where's leaves?
You're right, I'm with a coffin, you know what.
I'm like, they're just dissecting the body.
And yeah, they come up there and I'm like, what I think, guys, help me out. We stuff you in the coffin. There's more of you than I was expecting. There's no room in this coffin. There's only enough room to slip one DVD into the side to take across to the other side and on the other side. In a ninety eighties pizza hut with the teenage mutant nintertaitles, it's movie night every night, and one night it's your movie night. What film are you taking to show? The stars have saved by the bell when it's your movie night?
Have I directed this movie?
No, you're just presenting a movie.
It's just presenting a movie. I might, I might taking tea. We mentioned it before, because ET, to me, represents the best. It's actually a little scary and unnerving. It's a real symphony of emotions. It's not one thing. It is mysterious and ethereal, but it's real and the family feels real. It doesn't feel mawkish. The divorced mother feels real. It's it's it's almost like this masterclass in filmic perfection, and it uses all all the paint brushes available to filmmakers. The music is the music is fantastic. The the the acting is fantastic. That might be my one, like Time Capsule, like for Humanity is like, this is the best we did film wise for me personally. You know, even if Citizen Kane can objectively be appreciated, ET is like the peak movie Lee.
This has been such a sagre. I have really really been so fun. I'm so grateful to you. I'm sorry we had to wrest some of the questions, but that's because no, no, I.
Know, I feel bad for my lightning round, but I was trying tell people.
So. The next thing to look out for is wolf Man correct coming out in January. Yes, we're all very excited to see it. I've really loved this and good luck with your movie.
Yes, thank you, I really enjoyed this, and finally you finally say shated my goal of answering those questions that you asked on a podcast of like okay, movie that you saw that doesn't hold up. I think about this all day, so I might as well have an outlet for the thoughts. So thank you very much. Have a good one and thanks for having me on.
Thank you so much.
So.
That was episode three hundred and thirty four. Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com Forward Slash pret Golds team for the extra twenty minutes of chat, secrets and video with Lee. Go to Apple Podcasts give us a five start writing but right about the film that means the most to you and why it's a very lovely thing to read. It helps with numbers and we really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you so much to Lee for giving me his time. Thanks to Screwbys, Pip and the Distraction Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to iHeart Meeta and Wilferrell's Big Money Players Network for hosting it. Thanks to adamising Them for the graphics and Lisa Laden for the photography. Come and join me next week for another smasher of a guest. But that is it for now. I hope everyone is well. Thank you very much for listening, but in the meantime, have a lovely week, and please, now more than ever, be excellent to each other.
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