Films To Be Buried With with Brett GoldsteinKyle MacLachlan • Films To Be Buried With with Brett Goldstein #284
LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With!
Join your host Brett Goldstein as he talks life, death, love and the universe with all time hero, actor, podcaster, winemaker and goddamn DALE COOPER - it's KYLE MACLACHLAN!
Those of you who've been paying attention to the podcast for a fair amount of time will know that this one here is a VERY big deal...! Remember when Mark Frost was on? Like that kind of level. But not only for Twin Peaks - Kyle has been making power moves on the screen for decades, and you will have seen him not only in Twin Peaks, but Dune, Sex & The City, Showgirls, and just so many more. You know this episode will be a goody, and it's lovely to have it confirmed that Kyle is also a truly lovely person. So rest assured - you will enjoy the hell out of this one.
Video and extra audio available on Brett's Patreon!
Look out. It's only films to be buried with. Hello, and welcome to films to be buried with. My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor, a writer, a director, an al ring and I love films. As Mark Frost once said, a real mystery can't be solved, not completely. It's always just out of reach, like a light around the corner. You might catch a glimpse of what it reveals, feel its warmth, but you can't know the heart of it.
Not really.
That's what gives it value. It can't be cracked. It's bigger than you and me, bigger than everything we know. I will never fully understand what Holly Motives is really about, but I don't really want to for fear of losing its magic on me. It's absolutely right, Mark Frost. Every week I'm by a special guest over. I tell them they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most of them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Mark Frost, Sharon Stone and even Clad Blambles. But this week it's the brilliant actor, winemaker and now podcaster and all time legend mister Kyle mcgloughlin. Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you get next to twenty five minutes with Kyle, where we talk secrets of Twin Peaks The Return, we talk about beginnings and endings. You get the whole episode, uncut and ad free and as a video. Check it out over at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein with all the other episodes. So this is a huge one for me. Kyle mcgloughlin is one of my favorite actors. He has been legendary and so many things, from Blue Velvet to June, to Desperate Housewives, to Sex and the City to the hidden but most influential of all. He plays special Agent Dell Cooper in Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks The Return. Those of you who know me will know what a huge part of my brain is taken up with Twin Peaks. I'd say my brain is fifty percent twim Peaks and fifty percent sort of trying to function with the rest of my day. I love Twin Peaks so fucking much. I saw it far too young. If forever walks my brain and so to have the main and constant David Lynch Mews on the show was almost too much for me, and I think you can hear that in the episode. I'm very over excited and try and not set I love you every ten minutes, but you know it's very clear what's really going on. You can you can hear it. I'm really grateful to Kyle for doing the show and for being so patient and indulgent with all my Twin Peaks thoughts and questions. If you haven't seen Twin Peaks and twin Peaks the Return, you've got to watch them, and you should probably watch them before you listen to this episode because we go in deep on all of it. He also is a winemaker. You can buy his wine Pursued by a Bear. And also he has a new podcast himself coming out. It's coming out this week, starts this week. It's called Varnum Town. It's a true crime podcast. You should subscribe and listen and love it. I think it's ten episodes and so far it is fucking brilliant. Anyway, I just got to say, having had co creator of Twin Peaks Mark Frost on the show a couple of years ago, and now Kyle I've now got to meet two of my old timer heroes and turns out fucking wonderful people. So meet your heroes. I guess that's the moral of the story. Anyway. We recorded this on Zoom recently. I really think you're gonna love it. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode two hundred and eighty four of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by an actor, a wine maker, a podcaster, a legend, a hero, a twin peakser a blue velveter a Juna, A Sex and the City, a desperate housewife, sir, a show girls, a Twin Peaks, the Returner, A everything you've ever loved, he's in it. He changed all of your lives. Can you believe he's here? I can't. He's one the great, one of the all time. Here is of all time? Could you believe he's here? He really is? It's him? Please, welcome to the show. The brilliant, It's calm, a bag man.
Whoa and I am laughing my eyes up.
That was perhaps the best introduction I have ever received.
Thank you so much, you so kind, very kind.
Wow, Kyle, it is so wonderful to see you. I'm going to have to bore you by telling the people listening at home if anyone has ever followed this podcast, they know that Twin Peaks is as big a thing in my life as the Muppets. Like i'd say that if you if you didn't define me as two things culture wise, it's it's the Muppets and Twin Peaks.
That's perfect.
And when I was eight, I came home, me and my sister came home from something and my dad. We went say alo to my dad and he was watching the very first episode of Twin Peaks. It was like two minutes in, and we went to say hello, and he went and we sat down and we watched it, and we were so fucking scared and we were so addicted, and then we watched the whole thing, and I think it's why we're the way we are. And God bless you, and.
I'm so happy to hear that it's a show.
It had such an impact back in the day, and I hear these stories is your beautiful story from people, and it's just a great reminder of the power of David Lynch, you know, and that story in particular.
So I had Mark Frost on the show. By the way, I'm going to tell people, if you don't mind, you've also been incredibly lovely to me. I met you at an event and we said hello and we were vaguely stayed in touch. And then you were in London on my birthday and you and your lovely wife invited me for a coffee and I came and had a coffee and it was literally like a Make a Wish foundation because I just sat for an hour and a half and asked you questions about David Linen. It was so generous and you bought me an ice cream.
What a day the birthday that you'll remember.
Yeah, you know you.
Gotta celebrate on your birthday. Well, I thank you.
You know I am a huge fan of yours as well. So it was a mutual love fest that we had over an ice cream Sunday of some kind.
It was. It was a lovely, lovely, lovely day. Thank you.
But if you will forgive me, because no one else was listening and felt I felt as we were having that conversation, I was like, this is so unfair that I'm getting to have this all to myself, so I would like to repeat a couple of those questions so that people can enjoy them, which is like, I'm so obsessed with Twin Peaks, and I'm more even kind of more obsessed with the return because it's so unusual for something to come back twenty five years later and be fucking amazing and profound and like as mind blowing as the original, if not more so, And like, I don't think there is a single example of something that's done that. I think most things that come back have been kind of disappointing, and I sort of it. My theory is when things come back and people really want them to come back and then they feel dissatisfying, is kind of because they kind of are the same thing, and it's almost like they've gone, well, we'll give you what you want, and then you get what you want and you're like, oh, no, I didn't really want that I wanted. And with Twin Peaks, the original was such a surprise that what happened with the return it was like, oh, will surprise you, Like, this is not at all what you think it's going to be, which is what the original Twin Peaks were, Yeah, it's fucky amazing. How is it for you?
Well, I think you make a good point about things that come back again, and I feel like what happens is they get watered down somehow and they lose their intensity. And I know that there were a lot of Twin Peak fans who wanted to kind of have that warm bath going back and recreating that experience, which you simply can't. And I know that David Lynch in particular has no interest in recreating something that's already been done, and he was all about the future and moving forward.
And you know, we.
Were able to really get what I call it's the pure Lynch ingestion. You know, he obviously David is you know, you put him under the category of surreal as filmmaker, I think, and I think what we got for that return was really almost just the purity of his vision, of his intensity. And honestly, it wasn't for everyone, but I am really proud of it, and I'm so happy to hear that you also embraced it that way, because it's what it is Twin Peaks. And then it's even I think more and if you liked the original and you're a fan of the original. I think you really it was something that really spoke to you. You so thank you.
It also feels like, you know, there's the reality and forgive me, this is I don't know, too sad to talk about, but you know, lots of people kind of died from the cast, like within weeks, within days of the show, and it really feels like this kind of document like time, if the whole thing is about time, and there's the kind of reality of these people getting older and some of them dying, and you feel there's a real it's so strong within the show, particularly with the log lady and everything. It's like it's so fucking moving. This feels like this object about time, real fucking time, you know what I mean.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
I think so often when you see something a film, a favorite film or a favorite program, it's a frozen moment in time, right, and time stops and that's how you remember that moment. And with Twin Peaks, you know, obviously we get advanced twenty five or a few more years and you saw the age and you realize that people were gone, and suddenly, as you said, time becomes very real and the march of time becomes like really very tangible, I think, and it was a it was a byproduct of the experience, but I think a powerful one.
Yeah, and kind of you. You're incredible in the return and you essentially play three if not arua to play four parts, Yeah, five, I'd say four. I think I'm playing four pack.
With a few other little variations thrown in. Yeah.
I think the guy at the end in the final episode is four is the fourth.
Yeah, Richard referred to as retail.
He's a slight cut of Cooper, close to Cooper, but not exactly.
Yeah. And it's a phenomenal performance and you should have won oh the awards for it. And you're and and the thing that you're side lovely and you kind of twinkly, and there's an innocence about you in a purity and a curiosity and all that stuff. But when you played mister c You're dead. You are scared, proper fucking scary. And I believe that's the first time you've done something that dark yourself. And I wondered how that was and how you did it, you know, So.
I wondered how I did.
When I was reading the script, I recognized the fact that what I needed to do and I it was soul searching.
I said, are you are you an actor who can do this?
You know, can you can you go and do what's necessary because.
If you can't, the show doesn't work.
So but I had the little glimmer of hope was that the David was there as the director, and I said, if I'm going to do this, there's nobody I'd rather, you know, jump off the edge of this cliff with them, with David, and I know that he'll he'll have my back. And it was a challenging, scared, very surprisingly powerful. Not surprising that it was powerful, but the fact that I actually the feelings. You know, as an actor, you're it's a journey in every role demands different things and you're sourcing from different parts of yourself.
And I was like, this isn't a part that I'd.
Never sourced, and yet I dipped into it and it was available to me and I was like, Okay, that dark, inky blackpool is there, and and I kind of wallowed in.
It a bit.
I gotta say I was very happy to take it off at the end of the day, which was sort of symbolic by removing basically getting undressed from me taking off the character. But I was very surprised that when I got in it it was different and it was exciting and powerful and a little frightening.
Wow, that's crazy, you're like, I could.
It's a very weird place is an actor, and one that I did not want to stay in very long, to be.
Honest, there's a reality. I think about that a lot like that. You know, there's the scene you have quite early on. I think it's like episode three, I say as a mega mega fan where you're where you hit that woman and it's very horrible and upsetting, and I think about sayings like that, the sort of reality obviously on not hitting out, but you have to you have to physically look like you're going to and looked like you mean it. That's sort of very dark scary either. Yeah, that must be very tricky.
You know.
There was a hint of it in Blue Velvet in the relationship with Isabella in that as the character of Jeffrey sort of brushes up against his dark side, encouraged by her and her behavior and obviously influenced by the character of Frank Booth played by Jennis Hopper, played beautifully by Jennis Hopper, and he does, he does strike her in this moment of true passion, anger, desperation, sexual fervor, everything. And the remorse that he exhibits after that, when he's sitting in his room and he's really he's driven to tears, is really just as a glimmer of what was to come, and not even related and other than the fact that it was directed by David In the Return from Blue Velvet to the Return, Neck character had that and I hadn't really thought about that until you just mentioned that, and it was there, but more fully realized of course in the Return.
Yeah, there's a clip I add to anyone to find online way. It's just a one minute like behind the scenes shot of the return trim pieces of Return, and it's you can hit You're in the you're in the red room. You're in there. You're walking along the floor and David is just shouting directions from behind the camera and he's going look down. The floor is shaking, the floor is falling, you're falling down, you're falling, you're up, you're down, and he's shouting and it looks like you do it all in one take. It's so fucking brilliant, And the thing that is really fascinating about it is that it's the sort of thing that if you weren't completely trusting and one hundred percent committed, it would be embarrassing, Like it's right on the edge of this could feel very silly, Like it could feel silly. He's going like you're dancing, you're falling. Yeah, And it's so the very edge of that. And yet it's You're like, it isn't remote, it's not silly, it's not funny. It could be there's a version where this is a disaster, you know what I mean. But you're so both of you are so committed, and it's just and it ends and everyone claps and you're like, yeah, this is fucking amazing. And I wonder if can you articulate or is it just natural, like how you and David having worked together forever, Like what is it? How is it with between the two of you? Is it just trust?
Is it?
Do you know what he's doing?
It's a lot of trust. I don't always know what he's doing.
Know. I've been famously quoted as not understanding certain things. You know, I know what I know where, I know where we are in that moment of the journey. I often I'm uncertain as to the final result. You know, this is what this is in David's mind. This is the creator, the creative, and I am part of the troupe, you know, the group that carries on. But we've always had that talking back and forth is something I remember we did and we started with it in Dune and they continued into Blue Velvet, more so in Blue Velvet, and it's it's an interesting connection because there's a lot of it is sometimes it dips into the what I think is sort of the crazy. So David will say something to me that I know he's just trying to get me to laugh. You know, it's it's it's a departure from the scene. But I'll stay in character and I'll do it, and then the goal is to make him laugh. So it's about who makes the other laugh first. Because in doing it in Blueveltt, there was he was right. He'd only be right near the camera, so he wasn't back at a monitor. Now it's different, but he would be right near the camera and so he was right there, you know, as close as you can be. And so he would just say these things and oftentimes it was just between the two of us, and then the crew didn't know what was going on, and then of course one of us would break out laughing, and anyone would laugh. But so we have a lot of we have a lot of fun in some of the darkness, which.
Is very important important. Yeah, and that so I imagine I love that lower Daniels in it, and you two equally seem to have had a history with David Lynch for years and years, and yeah, may ask this question, do you think it's a happy ending in the return? Yeah? Do you think it's a positive or negative ending?
It's it's a mixed ending, I think, because on one hand, I feel like he has succeeded in finding her and actually kind of rescuing her or bringing her from her situation obviously a very bad situation in that room when he finds her, and what's this tableau that is set up there, not unlike the tableau inwards the end of levelovet similar.
But I also feel like he has not finished.
And there's a moment of which you never see Cooper in a moment of rarely, I guess, in a moment of not sure what to do, and yet you know, I think he'll figure it out, but so I feel like it's a it's almost a kind of a it's a work in progress kind of he hasn't quite figured out how he's going to get back all the way I used to like in it, kind of like an astronaut would be tethered and then he has to let go and then he's going to catch something else, but he hasn't quite caught the next thing yet, so he's in limbo a little bit. So it's a it's a mix. And I think the look on his face and that was all directed.
You know.
We shot the very very end outside the Palmer House very early in the filming. It was during the Seattle sequence, which we shot first. So I hadn't really gone on the journey yet, so I relied heavily on David to say, okay.
He said, come down.
The steps, you walk into the street, you take this number of steps, you stop, you hold a beat, you turn everything that you see. My physical everything, the physicality was him setting up the exact relationship.
That he wanted because I didn't.
I didn't I didn't understand exactly where we were on the journey. And then he had of course, cherryl Lee do that scream, which just I mean, I.
Don't know if you have the same reaction.
At the end of the pilot, there's this there's a grace sits up and there's a scream, and a hand comes in and and the I remember, the hair on the back of my neck is when I got chills. And that never happens. I mean, when are you so impacted by something rarely right? And I remember I had exactly the same reaction in the flesh in person.
When it happened, I was just like, oh my god, and I said, this is how we're going to leave. Oh my god, all right, Oh my god?
You know what? Could I could cry because I've just realized that. Yeah, it's like the whole full secon of life is that. That is what happened in the pilot where me and my sister were young, and we saw that, and when that happened, both of us sat. The funny thing is that I was supposed to move out. Me and my sisters share the room, and I was supposed to have that day. I was supposed to have my own room, and we were so scared that I dragged my mattress into my sister's room. And to this day I still sleep but that feeling, you know, twenty six years later that that is exactly how I responded to the end of this.
Oh Dave, it's just very powerful. That's a very funny story. Never forget.
But it makes me think, like, you're very funny. You're I think it's interesting, and maybe you've always been this way. Maybe it's inherits you. I think you're like in Sex and the City. I love you in Sex and the City. And it's such a again, it's so committed, such a committed, funny performance, and I don't know that must just be you must just be very open to everything because because again that could be silly, it could be embarrassing. But you fucking it's so good, so great, Thank you do it so well. Fuck thank you.
That was a lot.
You know, when you're working with Francis Sternhagen, the late Francis Sternhagen, that's my mom.
I mean, she would come to set.
She'd be like in a broken stocks and like a gardening shirt, you know, pants, just all natural, hair down.
No makeup, you know, and big smile.
It's so gracious, so warm, and she would trans form into this Upper east Side chili smoking, you know, character, and it's really amazing and we had just great chemistry, and I had great chemistry with Kristen too as Charlotte. And I think the idea was, you know, obviously the topics that the things that Trey is dealing with are embarrassing and certain and you know, you can make a joke about them, but we really tried to find not all the time, but we tried to find some of the real issues, you know, the real emotion like if this really happens, how does how do two people deal with it?
You know, and what kind of.
Just the realness of it we were we were trying to get to and I think and we were helped in some ways. And then also the writers, couldn't you resist all the fun which was great? You know, there was some humor there too.
But.
There is POSI that moving right, you know, so you're very good.
Try to focus on that.
Okay, one last one, last question. Thank you for talking to me. I know that with your long career with David Lynch, have you ever been like, I'm not doing that that's.
You know, there there.
Was one time, one time that I remember and maybe there were others, but I don't think so. I mean, there was the script for Blue Velvet was pretty graphic as you can imagine, you know, very specific things that happened between Jeffrey and.
Dorothy and written out, you know.
And so there was this kind of a scene where I'm supposed to run from the couch, you know, gather my clothes real quickly. But I knew there was going to be a stretch of the living room where I was going to be potentially full frontal. And I was like, oh, boy, David, I know, and I was like, I don't if I can do this, I really and he said, no, no, no, noah, We're gonna move the camera over here.
It's going to be okay, You're gonna be fine.
And so I trusted him, you know, and I did it and it actually worked. Okay, there's a slight moment of something, you know, but it could have been a lot worse.
So that was that was one time when I was.
And then the only other on was I remember when we were doing the scene when after Jeffrey has the joy ride, the whole experience a Dean Stockwell and Frank and all that. That night he wakes up kind of beaten up in the lumberyard. And I remember David had wanted Jeffrey to wake up. You know, his pants were down. He was fully you know, exposed. You could realize he's been he'd been abused. And I was like, I said, David, I think this might be a little more than what.
The audience should see.
I just feel like we're it might be a little bit too and he he.
Said okay, he said, okay. We were able.
To show portray that or do that without having to see that the brutality of that. And so that was I mean, that was the only time I kind of raised. I didn't sort of say I wasn't going to do it. I just sort of said, I, you know, yielded to him. But I said, I this is how I kind of feel about this, and he he agreed.
Something that is I don't know why it's made. That's good, Oh man, makes sense. So tell me before week. I'm sorry to people. We haven't even haven't even told you something I should have told you. But do you do you how there are two things you need to tell me about. One is why and thether is you have a new podcast. What is your podcast?
Oh?
God, thank you for asking.
Finally, I'm the last person, last after to get into the podcast.
I didn't have a focust it was about time.
I thank you for asking.
I have.
It's a kind of a crazy mystery story that takes place not far from where we filmed Blue Velvet, which was in Wilmington, North Carolina. This takes place in a little town called Varnhumtown, North Carolina, and it's the story of a very eccentric, charismatic guy who made a deal with Pablo Escobar and his cartel and his town. This is a very small town of three hundred people to operate as a basically a port or a hub for smuggling drugs into the country from South America.
And the podcast is called Varnumtown after the community.
And I heard the story and I said, that is the crazy thing about it is, you know, I understand the person, but how do you get a whole town involve and then what does that mean to the town and to the people, and what happens to that to them, you know, and who agrees and who doesn't agree, and then what sort of what does that set up?
And I thought, this is a very interesting story.
So I I contacted my friend josh Davis, Joshua Davis, who's an investigative reporter, and we put together a little crew, very small crew, and we went to Varnhamtown and we interviewed almost all of the people that were involved. There's a few that were not around, Pablo Escobar being one, but.
We interview everybody.
Yeah, and we came up and this is this eight episode sort of mystery that we go on to try to kind of figure this out, put the pieces together, and it was it's a I loved it.
I love the process. It's really fun. Yeah.
Does it make you want to do more of them? Yeah?
Yeah, I understand it. I understand it more now. The big learning curve for me was you're going with an idea of a story, and then that story continues to evolve and change and shifts as we do these interviews, as we went on this journey and gathered everything, and I said, oh, okay, so it's the story sort of reveals itself as you go through this process. At least that was the experience I had. And I said, that's interesting. It reveals itself. And I thought, oh, yeah, okay, I enjoyed that. So yeah, I'd like to do more.
I love it. I love it, Kyle, I have. I did forget to tell you something, which is it's mad, mad that I didn't tell you at the beginning of this, because you know, we had a long time dealing with the tech. I see to tell you. But let me just check my notes, because I did make a note to tell you. I was going to say up top, and I don't know, I got distracted because this is excited to say you've died. You're dead. M okay, you're dead.
Is there a chance of resurrection or is this it?
No, there is a chance.
I okay.
If this guy's out, you ever want to do another episode, then yeah, that's that's a RESIDCT episode.
Lovely, let's make it.
How did you die?
Oh it was a tragic accident.
Well, yeah, I was what happened.
I was on a podcast with post I don't know if you know about.
Yeah, I was sad and I was trying to work the avy and I was actually electrocuted trying to hook up.
The microphone and it was sad. Yeah. So there's a lot of my final Yeah.
My final moments were actually caught on tape and recorded, so very.
Embarrassed that they made for great content. Yes, well, do you worry about death?
It will occasionally cross my mind.
I have.
I'm one of those people.
I don't know if you're like this, but if I wake up at three o'clock or four o'clock in the morning, you know, from sleep, my mind begins. It's a dark time. I think they do say it is the what is it theminator from the lowest point. Yeah. In fact, when people pass and if they're suffering, and it's a common time.
To actually pass, like four in the morning.
Roughly, and occasionally, yeah, that concept will creep in and it becomes I have to work hard to shake it. Not hard, but I need to shake it off and I enter into my gratitude list of things, you know, my family, my son, and my things I've done people, I know.
Those kind of things. It's very hard to imagine just not being here.
It's a concept that I think is if you really sit with it, it's not a place that I really like to go and be.
Do you think there's more when you die? That there's something else?
I hope. So, I hope.
So you know, one side of my brain says, and you know, this is it and you you've done, You've lived, and you move on, and you live on in the memories of others you know, and in some ways as an actor if you live on for possibly a long time. But you know, that's one side. The other side is hopeful that there is some kind of energy transference, that some kind of consciousness, although really hard to believe.
That for me, Well, I got news for you, m there is a heaven. I guess he's got it.
You I am.
You gotta do it, you gotta have it.
I knew it. This is why I'm doing I'm going to heaven.
It's good with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
I hope I can bring wine.
Tell me what you love wine? You make wine? Why tell me what happened?
We know the way I I liked wine longer than I should be. I like one since high school.
Really, yes, very well, I wasn't really good wine that I liked, but I love the idea, and that started me on this journey that's led now to me owning a brand, a wine brand, and I make wine.
In my home state of Washington, where I grew up on the east side.
Eastern Washington is.
Quite dry, quite good for wine grapes. In fact, the west side not so good. That's Seattle and that's very rainy and green and mossy. But the east side is dry, dry as bone. And so that's where I grew up, and that's where the vineyards that I used for my wine are all that side.
So I made my first vintage in two thousand and five. Is kind of a fun adventure.
Wanted to learn about it, wanted my dad to be part of it, and that started me on this journey.
And here we are twenty twenty three.
I'm twenty twenty four, good lord, and I've I've got seven different wines, and I'm really still enjoying the journey.
Fun and it's huge, right you're doing. It's a very big brand now, it's.
A known brand.
We're still pretty small production, you know, roughly three thousand case productions, pretty small, but high quality and that's our focus. And we actually have a distribution in the UK, which is pretty cool. I got a few spots there and around the country, so I've got distribution in about eighteen states and I love it amazing.
Yeah, Well, in Heaven, there's older wine you could want, there's your wine, there's your other favorite wines. I don't know enough about wines, but they're all there. There's red, there's white.
I'm sure they're all fantastic. If they're in heaven, they've got to be great.
Yeah, they're really good. Oh made dry. You never and everyone's very excited to see you, and they won't know about your life, but they won't know about your life through film. And the first thing they ask you, what's the first film you remember seeing? Comic buff I don't know.
If this was the first film I ever saw, but it's one that had an impact on me that I still think about today.
I was in fifth grade, so how is that that's maybe ten?
I don't know anyway, your grade system.
I was a crossing which called we called them patrol boys. But then there was a crossing guard. And this is when it was the kids were actually the crossing guards for the other kids. And at the end of the year, as a I guess as a nice gesture, we got half a day off school and we got to go to this park and all these games and food and everything, and and it culminated in going to see a movie at the local theater in downtown Yakoma, Washington, and I went and went to.
The theater very excited, you know, I was.
I hadn't seen many movies, and I remember sitting down and the screening was a film called Duel at Diablo. Western great, you know, it's fine watching cowboys and everything going around.
And at a.
Certain point in the film, one of the good guys has been kidnapped by the Native Americans Indians at that time. Native Americans kidnapped him and taking him away, and we didn't know where he was, and so they sent out a search party and they find him and he's been tied to a wagon wheel.
None of this you see, right.
The only thing you see is kind of from behind, an arm that's been lashed to a wagon wheel, and they've been roasting him alive. So the arm is bloody and blistered and grotesque.
And you're like, that's all I needed to see. I was like, I was horrified.
I was frightened beyond belief then, because you see the faces of the other cowhans looking at him like, oh, like incredulous, like oh my god, this is awful.
And I don't know if.
Any dialogue was but I remember there was a passing of a gun six shooter to.
The hand that had been burned.
You know, it was enough, it was okay, and it reached out and it's with its bloody fingers grabbed the pistol and began to turn the gun this way.
And they cut away.
And now you're with the cowboys and they're kind of some distance, they're riding away, and you hear a gunshot, a single gun shot right now.
Oh god.
And I was like, that was it. I was like I was it was embedded in my brain. I was, oh my god, I'd never seen anything like this. I'd never seen anything like that. So I must have seen other movies. I mustn't because we were pretty sheltered as kids, and so there were I'm sure they were Disney movies, you know, which have a certain you know element of you know BANDI you think about that's a lenment of loss in there and horror. But this was something so brutally graphic to me. And you know, I still have those few images, and I'm sure they've distored it over the years, but that was the first thing I ever saw so that I remember really really that visceral of a reaction.
Yeah, crazy, Okay, that's.
I should I haven't even never seen it again, so I don't know.
Yeah, I's lock that up. What about crying? What is the film that made you cry the mouth?
I think it's any film that I watch when I'm in the air.
Is there a thing? Does this happen to you.
That it does? I don't think it is a thing, but no one knows why it is a thing. But yeah, everything it might cry and it's the strangest thing.
And I remember I was sitting, I was flying somewhere and uh for some and this was back in the day when you could actually make phone calls from the seat. Remember they had phones for a while that you could actually remember sat phones or whenever they were. So I was, I was flying, and I was watching my dog skip for some reason, and even thinking about it, I'm getting I'm getting emotional now. And there's a there's a moment where the dog he puts his pop on the bed.
He can't jump up on the bed. He's getting old.
And I was just like I was, thank god, I was in the window seat and I was turned to the side, tears just running down my cheeks. I was like this, and I was I think I was either on the phone or I had called the phone, or maybe I called my wife, Desiree, and I.
She said hello.
I said hello, like there's some little whimpery voice and she said Kyle.
I said yeah, and she said are you crying? I said, you know, I just couldn't even talk and she said, I said, I'm watching my dog skip and she said.
Oh my god, call me back later. But I just remember that moment so clearly. Just it was had such a like, you know, watching it in your.
Home, you'd be like, oh, that's a very moving moment.
But somehow, when you're in the air, I don't know what it is, everything has more impact.
You can't fast and furious. We'll make you cry on a plane, right, you call it? Don't fail Vin, Diesel will make you cry. Diesel is saying we're a family will make you cry.
Yeah, yeah, I believe you.
I think you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
So anyway, what about being skeed? What's the film that sketted? Do you light being sketched? And by the way, you you either thing that scared?
Made it?
Nice to it?
Okay, so nice to have that distinction. I don't like being scared. I don't like jump scares. But again, I was working in North Carolina. I was working as an apprentice at Flat Rock Playhouse. So this would have been seventy seven, seventy eight, and this film called Alien had come out, and so I was kind of seeing this girl. And we went to see Alien together on a rare day off and I literally sweat through my clothes. I my T shirt is drenched with sweat. It was so tense and I was so scared. My heart was going like one hundred miles an hour. I was freaked out that movie. Totally just scared, basically scared the shit out. I mean, that was and I still I still love it. I love the Alliadians. I mean, I'm just but yeah, that one was.
That one for me was really memorable, and you know it it holds up.
So I think so I think that, you know, just a big fan of Sigourny.
We were for all the years that Tom's Scare It and Harry Dean, you know, just the the production value of it was interesting because it was early and it was a ship that was like a working ship.
This wasn't a pristine.
Spacecraft that was new, right, it was new like yeah.
You'd seen Star Wars to that point, which is clean and nice and everything is shiny. This was and therefore very real. I thought it really put you in that place so quickly, so.
Scary, fantastic. What is the film that you love? People who don't like it is not critically acclaimed, but you love it forever.
There's this film.
I mean, I don't even I don't know if people love this film or not love. I can't untell, but there was. There were two films that were made actually at the same time. It was sort of controversial, Three Musketeers for Musketeers. This is the version with Michael Yorke and Richard Chamberlain, Raquel Welch, Faye dun Away. I mean it was a cast of you know, superstars. Richard Flesher I think directed, and I will watch it today. I mean, I love it.
I love it.
And part of the reason I think I love it is because I found it when I was in school and training at the University of Washington, and and anybody in school, we were thirteen going kids going through this repertory theater experience this program for three years. And if any kind of diversion, you know, was was because it was just it was a very intense program, and I remember going there and watching this and just feeling like, oh my god, this is my kind of humor, this is my kind of movie. It had it had fun, swashbuckling, great sword play. I think the choreographers William Hobbs Oliver read, I don't know, just I love everything about it. I love every In fact, I love it so much that I would watch they have, you know, kind of behind the scenes footage or interviews with.
The actors, you know, many years after, and I would sit and.
Watch that and I just love hearing the stories, and I love the idea of being on that.
Set, and I love everything about it. It's crazy.
I love it. So that's that's.
It's like a guilty pleasure.
What about on the other side of it, a film that you used to love a lot, but you've watched recently and you've thought, I don't like this anymore. Maybe you change.
The thing is I still like this film, but it's a context of Blazing Saddles.
Have you seen that recently?
I love Blazing Sadus.
Recently, I love Blazing Saddles, but it's so inappropriate right now.
It's so not not what it's supposed to be it's you know, it's like of a time and a place and it's hilarious, but it's it's hard for.
Me to watch now just because of some of the jokes and I'm just like, I know everyone's in on the joke. But and it's got one of the great performances Gene Wilder as the Waygoat kid, I mean Cleveland Little of course on you know, this is mel Brooks.
But I have a hard time watching it just because.
Yes, yeah, but that is an edgy film.
It's an edgy film. I don't, you know, I it's and again it's it holds up. It's just more that it's of a different era, you know. I think in that really there are some films that are like, okay that exists in that time, very specific, and in some films that they're sort.
Of a little you know, you can go with them for yeah, decades.
So I don't know, I think that's fair. I think comedy rarely holds up. Comedy is always of its time, I think are not always. But I think any any other than sort of silly comedies, silly like slapsticky type thing or anything with dialogue usually dates because it's sort of transgressive at the time they make it, and then time moves on and then that thing suddenly becomes less. I don't know the times.
Of the moment. Maybe of the moment, yeah.
Yeah, What is the film that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is any good, but the experience you had around seeing it will always make it special to you.
And again it's because I think of where I was in the context the film, The Long, Good Friday, Bob Hoskin.
Filling me right film.
It's a great films, the best ending Pierce Brosnan. I was working at the Shakespeare Festival in Nashally. I had graduated. It was nineteen eighty two. I was working in Ashland. I was doing Romeo on the main stage, The Boy and Henry five, which is a great role. Octavius Caesar, Julius Caesar, fresh out of school, working making five hundred dollars a month.
I was in heaven. But it was perfect.
Yeah. And we was repertory theater, so you and you know, occasionally you had a knight, yet a dark knight, you get a night off, and there was a little theater in town that would play so and that it was the only movie theater. So we were like, this movie came on the longer Friday. I said, I don't know what it is.
You know what it is. I don't know what it is.
So let's go because we got nothing else to do. We got to kill some time. The main stage is on, We're not on there.
Let's go. So we went and we sat down with no expectations.
It was my roommate and me, and on comes that music and remember da da dun da da da dun d and you see Bob Hoskins like, this is going to be good. I think this is going to be very good. And we were just transported. We were not a Nationals anymore. We were in a different place. We watched it. I can't tell you how many times that week, and they only go from come from a week. Every time that we had downtown, we would go back and watch it. I loved it. I loved that movie. It was so intense and I remember, just because of that that experience where I was at the.
Time, that is that is very cold.
It's a great film.
What about the film you might relate to relate.
To, you know, I kind of tumble back into the Musketeers again in this in so I don't know if we can repeat, but it's like I just saw myself. And I think part of it was because I was in acting training and so we were we were doing sword work, you know, we were doing the classics.
There was just a lot of and it's a very actor movie.
And I wanted to be a part of that group of people that you know, Michael York, Richard Chamberlain, Frank Finlay.
Oliver Reed.
I wanted to be one of those guys, you know, so and I felt like, this is this is who I want to be, This is who I would be if I were alive at that time. So I definitely I think it was a kinship to that kind of brotherhood that I felt with those guys, and I said this, this would be my tribe, This would be my family if I were you know, if that were real and it were.
That of that time, that would be my It would be my people, I feel.
But it's such a weird life in it, particularly for an actor, where like you ended up so being found by David Linson and that became such your life. It's a huge part of your professional life, is this Tan, I bet you never could have pictured or it's such a unique position you're in there. I don't think anyone actually can to There's no nothing comparable, I think, to the way you two have been.
It's an interesting The journey is. The journey is, as you said, when you look back in the middle of it, that you have no perspective, you know, you're like, Okay, I'm doing Dune with David. Happened to be a book that I loved.
I started reading when I was fifteen. I read every year. I would read it. I would I.
Would write quotes from the movie on my English teacher's blackboard in eighth and ninth grade because she let me. I mean, I was really really affected by it. And cut to a few years later, I get a phone call. They're auditioning in Seattle, where I happened to be doing a play for Paul, and my first response was who who is this?
Why are you Frank calling me? And it made no sense to me at all. I couldn't quite fathom what was happening. And that led to Yeah, it led to everything.
That's really what is the sexiest film you've ever seen?
She's not a film, but I watched a clip of Anne Margaret dancing on Johnny Carson to something, and I don't think she was wearing a bra.
In fact, I'm pretty sure. And I said they could do this on television. That she's crazy sexy. Yeah, she's crazy sexy.
Have you ever seen Tommy musical film? She runs around in baked beans in that I believe, And it's I mean, it's a wonderful piece of cinema.
I just can watch it again and again and Againlar.
I'm afraid I have to ask you this. Some agree traveling by is worrying? Why ones a film you found arousing you weren't sure you should?
Well, this is yes, and you should apologize because it's conversing.
The fifth element. Yes, not Bruce Willis.
You mean what's he called? Leo?
Leo? Yeah, Lelo. Yeah. She was really good.
He's really good.
I was very compressed with.
He's very good.
Yeah, it's very good. And the costume that she had was great.
If that was very good? Yeah, what is objectively the greatest film of all time? It might not be your favorite, but it's the best one best film.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cuckoo's Nest is.
Yes, I just yeah, it's a masterpiece.
It's not as out there as actually two thousand and one, let's say either something about it. I just I love everything about it. It's just a great film. And it's very it takes you want to ride, you know, and I just love it.
Yeah, I think you might be right. It's an excellent answer. And I can't argue that.
Like the shining is great, you know, you know that's amazing that it's it's a little I I it's not as visceral.
To me as a cucus nest.
Yeah, and cuss is about many things. It's very moving, it's funny. Yeah, it's upsetting. Good film. He's fucking you know what, Mi las Foeman. He's not on the lists enough, you know what I mean, I'm the great directors. He doesn't get mentioned. I don't think as often. He's brilliant. You're right, he's so many brilliant films. Why isn't he on the list? We need to get him on these lists.
You should be on Yeah, you should be in the conversation anymore, right for sure?
Yeah?
Like Amadias, yes please, yes, with that question. I really loved the paper vests. Larry Flynn. I think it's I agree, really interesting film.
I agree, I think we didn't. Woody was amazing in that.
Yeah, it's a great boy. Right, you did a play with it.
We did a play.
We were in the West End together at the at the Comedy Theater on Panton Street.
How will I forget every We did a Pinter there?
We did?
No, No, we didn't. I'm sorry.
We did a new play. The theater was known as the Pinter Theater. There had a lot of Pinter there. We did on an average day in the West End.
Two hander. That's that's that's a we don't much theater.
I'm to think if I mean you don't stand up, that's that's pretty intense.
I used to before. Before I did stand up. I did quite a bit. Yeah, but I haven't done a play in years and years, and it's a lot of work. It's how long was there? Right? How long we did? We?
We ran I think three months or something. I think we did like one hundred some performances. I remember what. He such a character. We got along great. I really loved him. I still love him.
I remember he was saying, he just he said, I can't do I can't do ithos a week I just can't do it.
And they were like, what he said, No, I'm not gonna shows a week.
This is that's a full performance of this. You know, money is not going to come in, you know. And he's like, okay. So they cut back one day and they but they paid us less as well. So it's like, okay, it's fair enough.
But but he he was he did that.
He was happier with that side. What is the film that you could all have? What's the mice I've never again? And is it the Muscatines film.
That would be in the list for sure?
Or it's kind of a toss up between the original Blade Runner Apocalypse? Now, yeah, those two would be right up there. Groundhog Day will always catch me because I just I just love Bill Murray and I just love that it's just.
A fun adventure.
Yeah, but I think Apocalypse or Blade Runner are the two that I I've.
Watched probably the most. And you know, I just I'm I'm such a fan of the well of.
Ridley Scott first of all, but I just you know, of the production value of that, you know, the way they made that. I like, I love early Ridley Scott's one of my favorite. Ridley Scott's movies, The Duellists in Time tel and Keith carrying.
Yeah.
Yeah, Like if you say, what movie do you want to watch about France during the time of Napoleon?
Do you want to watch Napoleon? Or do you want to watch the Duelists? And I'll say, oh, what the.
Duelists, And I'll probably understand the political climate there.
It was.
And again you see this is theme of going back to this, this the fact that they they fought these duels through the course of the movie with different weapons.
And again I think I.
Must have come up on that movie when I was in school because that was such a big part of our training, was all the sword work, and it was so have.
You ever got to use yodell?
I only I did it in the play.
I did it in Romeo and Juliet we did we did some sword work, and then in Dune. You know, the idea was when we didn't have swords necessarily, but we had the short knives, the daggers, and we treated them as if they were sorts. So the training was kind of kendo style, you know, with that with that blade.
But no, not, I haven't done anything that. There's no, not really a call for sword play.
Sadly right, we need to put this out anyone listening into Hi cal and give them some sword says, because this is crazy.
Something where I can use my my rusty sort of skill set.
What is I don't like to be negative. I don't think you too, But what's the worst film you've ever seen?
Show girls that question?
Agree to disagree. I love Shogas. Listen, not only do I love Shogas, but the amount of people that come in this podcast who also love shogas is brilliant. How dare you Okay, it's brilliant?
I stand corrected.
Can I ask you? Did you? Did you not? I really? I think Shas is great. I loved it. I don't even love it like later on ironically, like I loved it when it come out it was great? Was that a weird exper like did you?
May ask it?
Well, it was a little weird in sort of the day to day filming, because you know there are you know, people weren't wearing any clothes.
You come to set, You're like, okay, that's kind of that's not you don't really see that work that often.
If I didn't mind it, but it was a little it was a little strange first thing in the morning with your first cup of coffee and you gotta walk around naked.
You're like, okay, okay, all right, start the day off.
With the bank.
But you know, it was it was.
What was created and what the intention was from the beginning to the end were two different things, you know, and and I get and I appreciate the irony of it and the high camp nature of it, which you know, if you're going to do high camp, I guess you I guess going into it with serious intentions is maybe the best. You can't really you can play camp. But I think if you're like really really really serious about it, I think it's even better. I get, I get the attraction.
You know, it's highly quotable.
But it's still yeah, I just, you know, I know what we were trying to do, or at least what I was trying. Maybe I was in the wrong movie. Maybe I was. I thought it was this, but actually it was always going to be that.
I don't know.
What did you may ask then, what you thought what was it at the beginning? What did you think it would be?
That?
It isn't that you know.
The intention was to do something really kind of edgy and off putting, I think, and really not, you know, people with no redeeming qualities really you know, and cut throat and just and honestly an attempt on you know, on my part, to change the perception a little bit. You know, as an actor, you sort of you sort of end up funneling down a certain channel, I guess, and I said, no, no, I want to. I want to change this, you know, I want to. I want to ride down a different river, you know, if I can. And that was an attempt, very sad sadly, the huge failure.
And you know.
I just yah, right, it's pretty wrong.
Wrong, right, You're gonna talk out of it. By the individ episode.
You should be very bad. I love it. People love it.
Thank you. All right, all right, I'm coming around.
Okay, you're very funny. But what's the film that made you laugh?
The mist You know, I'm not a big laugher at films like comedy shows. I laugh maybe because it's it's immediate, But I find myself when I watch films that are funny, I'm like, oh, that's funny, you.
Know, I'm like, oh I love that. That's huge. You know, Like a movie like Holy.
Holy Grail, Holy Grail, and and and Faulty Towers.
John Pleae is to me just he's just genius, and uh, there all are. And I guess it's.
I have this strange reaction where instead of laughing, I go, oh, that's brilliant.
It's like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. Oh my god, I love that non secretory.
Oh it's what you know, But I know it's funny, but I'm kind of watching with a different Yeah.
You what's like a like a Honeywood exec when you're being pitched, you watch you just gay. That's funny, that's cute, that's funny.
Yes, yes, with that tone exactly, that's funny.
I love that's funny. Face, that's funny.
I'm terrible in the audience kid, Yeah, absolutely dead, but it's weird.
I don't know which is your favorite then, Which is the one that's made you gone that's funny the most.
I think.
I think seeing Money Python, I gotta say, you know, in a Holy Grail from me over Life of Brian, I know about that's funny, you know.
But something about I don't know, this is the whole thing. The whole thing is just brilliant.
Me.
Just brilliant how they ended.
I mean, it's I don't know, that would be a fun one, would have been a fun troup to be a part of.
You imagine.
Yeah, fuck yeah, that's good.
And you know what else is a really funny movie. And I think I did the same thing the movie as Arthur. The first Arthur. Oh my god, it's just it's a perfect little movie. It's a little gem of a movie. And Arthur two is just so bad. It's you know, it's weird. It's like you talked about earlier about trying to recapture something. Is like the casting was brilliant, unexpectedly brilliant.
Yeah, that weirdly came up the other day with Vincent dinafre He brought we It's come up twice at the same time. That's interesting, Kyle. You've been beyond delightful, beyond wonderful. Everything I could open more. However, when you came on a podcast with Brett Goldstein and you plugged your microphone in, we were trying to work out the tech and you got electrocuted and you to death, killed by Yetti. Yes, And I was watching live on the on the zoom and I was like, oh, shit. Oh fuck. I was like, have I just killed? And I'm such a this is this is awful. So I go around and that and that, and I see your your lovely wife, and I say, I'm so sorry. Can I just nip into the dining room. I got a coffee with me, and she goes, what's up? And I go, podcast business, don't worry about it. And I come into the back. She says, you need any help. I go, yeah, I got it, I got it. Don't worry about it. Just you carry on. You carry on with your business. And I come in and not any of you burnt Like this poor boy in the Diablau film. You're like you're like stuck to the furniture. So I'm having to like chop up some of the wood that you're attached on to chop your up. Desert keeps popping her head and everything all right, I go, yeah, don't worry about it, don't worry about it, you carry on. Everything's fine. She guess what's all that notes? Non to worry about that stuff you in the coffin. I sneak out the back. Basically, there's more than I was expecting. You're absolutely round in that coffin. There's only enough room in that coffin for me to slip one DVD into the side for you to take across to the other side and in in Wine Heaven, it's movie night every night. What film are you taking to show the people of Wine Heaven in Heaven when it's your movie night, camera goin And what wine will you pair it with?
Should I say sideways?
I bear it with a bat lofe.
Just a torture of the people in heaven, you do.
It's a nice idea, could work, You could have it. Yeah, I'm taking cale. You're a bloody wonder you are. Is there anything you would like to tell people to look out for to buy wine? To listen to your podcast? What is your podcast called?
It's called Varnumtown. Varnumtown, and it's a podcast. One did it and it's me and Josh Davis and it's you can find it if you're a podcast listener. You know how to track it down. Eight episodes, No, we're there a half hour.
They're not.
They're not very long, not a huge not a huge demand on your time. And I think it's a great it's a great story and a great ride.
And I think people would enjoy it.
So and get your wine Pursued by Bear.
Pursued by Bear, which we have in the UK and around the around the country, and we have our own little website as well, Pursued by Bear Wine dot com and you can read the story and it's a fun little if the website is fun, I set it up to have a people.
Have a good time.
And do you have any other TV or film or plays that we should be that we're waiting on.
So Fallout for Amazon comes We drop April twelfth, and that's a big one again, eight episodes based on the world of the video game Fallout, and it's Jonah Nolan and Lisa Joy, creators of West World.
Yeah.
Great, it's a it's.
A big sci fi epic that I think. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. And they spend a lot of time and money on this, so it's you know, it's a big thing. It's been fun Elo for now. Walton Goggins nice, Yeah, just on and on. Good, good group of people. And I'm a for those of that know the game, I'm an overseer of Vault thirty three and I am Lucy's dad and that's all I said.
I can say. Okay said.
Kyle, you know the best. Thank you so much for dinner. Thank you for your pistons and for indulging all my turn pas questions. Your side generous today and I appreciate you know looking boat by it.
I was not bored for an insider. Thank you, Thank you. This has been a real pleasure.
Have a wonderful death. Thank you very much. Good day to you, sir.
So.
That was episode two hundred and eighty four. Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com Forward slash break Ghosting for the extra chat, secrets and video with Kyle. Go to Apple Podcast, give us a five star rating and write about the film that means the most of you and why it's a lovely thing to read. My neighbor Marien loves it. It always makes her cry. If you want to come and see me on tour, I'm doing my stand up show, The Second Best Night of Your Life across America and now Canada. Just look it up. You'll find the dates somewhere. Come along, we'll have a right old time. Thank you so much to everyone for listening. Thank you to Kyle for giving me all that time and for putting up with me. Thank you to Scrubious, Pip and the distraction pieces of Network. Thanks to Buddy thanks for producing it. Thanks to ACAST for hosting it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and Lisa Then for the photography. Come and join me next week for another smasher of a guest. I hope you're all well. So that is it for now. In the meantime, have a lovely week, and please, now more than ever, be excellent to each other.
