“Wonder is the root of love, the lack of wonder is the root of violence.” 


Is there a way to create boundaries with someone who wishes to cause harm? Can you love them and hold them accountable? Do you have to fight for a just world for everyone? 

Valarie Kaur is no stranger to violence. As a Sikh, as a woman, as a person of color, violence has shaped both her activism and her deep sense of community care. Her Revolutionary Love Project is the blueprint for organizers, activists, and really - anyone in love with the world and what it could be. 



This week, the activist, and best-selling author of See No Stranger joins me to talk about love, action, and the power of wonder in the face of impossible things. 



We cover activism, wonder, horror, grief, acts of violence, acts of justice, parenting in an age of rampant school violence, healing family wounds, building true community - and why fighting for love and pleasure is always going to be more sustainable than fighting against hate. 


“I spent the last 20 years organizing my life around hate and I want to spend the next 20 years organizing around love. The pain of the world is the pain of the world, regardless.” - Valarie Kaur



* One brief content note, Valarie’s neighborhood had some construction going on, so there’s more background noise in this episode than usual. Listen for the goodness, though - it’s all around you. 



In this episode we cover: 

How do you continue to work on behalf of EVERYONE for a more just and beautiful world, when some of those people cause great harm? 
Getting outside of unbearable pain so you can survive
Do you have to suffer in order to be of service? Being an activist for the long haul
“Squad care” and what it means for activists and anyone alive in the world
What do you want future generations to inherit from your time here? 



Want grief support with Megan? Apply for 1:1 sessions here, or join the monthly Q&A here. 

Related episodes:

The Love-Filled World



A Place Called Home: a conversation with child welfare advocate, David Ambroz



Connection is the best medicine: with Dr. Rana Awdish





Notable quotes: 

“We're living in a time where we have to metabolize grief on a scale that no other generation before us has had to.” - Valarie Kaur



“Our solidarity is only as deep as our ability to love one another, and our ability to love one another is only as deep as our ability to weep with one another.” -  Valarie Kaur





About our guest:

Valarie Kaur is a renowned civil rights leader, lawyer, award-winning filmmaker, educator, author of the #1 LA Times Bestseller SEE NO STRANGER, and founder of the Revolutionary Love Project. A daughter of Punjabi Sikh farmers in California, her work has ignited a national movement to reclaim love as a force for justice. See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love. 





About Megan: 

Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 

The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.



Additional resources:

Valarie Kaur’s website
The Revolutionary Love Learning Hub



Want to talk with Megan directly? Two options: apply for one of her 1:1 sessions through the contact form at megandevine.co, or join our Patreon community for live monthly Q&A sessions. Either way, it’s your questions, answered.



Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 



Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms



For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn


For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.co

“Wonder is the root of love, the lack of wonder is the root of violence.” 
 Is there a way to create boundaries with someone who wishes to cause harm? Can you love them and hold them accountable? Do you have to fight for a just world for everyone? Valarie Kaur is no stranger to violence. As a Sikh, as a woman, as a person of color, violence has shaped both her activism and her deep sense of community care. Her Revolutionary Love Project is the blueprint for organizers, activists, and really - anyone in love with the world and what it could be. 
 
This week, the activist, and best-selling author of See No Stranger joins me to talk about love, action, and the power of wonder in the face of impossible things. 
 
We cover activism, wonder, horror, grief, acts of violence, acts of justice, parenting in an age of rampant school violence, healing family wounds, building true community - and why fighting for love and pleasure is always going to be more sustainable than fighting against hate. 
 “I spent the last 20 years organizing my life around hate and I want to spend the next 20 years organizing around love. The pain of the world is the pain of the world, regardless.” - Valarie Kaur
 
* One brief content note, Valarie’s neighborhood had some construction going on, so there’s more background noise in this episode than usual. Listen for the goodness, though - it’s all around you. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">How do you continue to work on behalf of EVERYONE for a more just and beautiful world, when some of those people cause great harm? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Getting outside of unbearable pain so you can survive</li>
<li aria-level="1">Do you have to suffer in order to be of service? Being an activist for the long haul</li>
<li aria-level="1">“Squad care” and what it means for activists and anyone alive in the world</li>
<li aria-level="1">What do you want future generations to inherit from your time here? </li>
</ul>
 
Want grief support with Megan? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for 1:1 sessions here</a>, or <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">join the monthly Q&amp;A here</a>. 
Related episodes:
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/the-love-filled-world-96943456/">The Love-Filled World </a>
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/a-place-called-home-a-conversation-102466262/">A Place Called Home: a conversation with child welfare advocate, David Ambroz </a>
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/connection-is-the-best-medicine-with-106164022/">Connection is the best medicine: with Dr. Rana Awdish</a>
 
Notable quotes: 
“We're living in a time where we have to metabolize grief on a scale that no other generation before us has had to.” - Valarie Kaur
 
“Our solidarity is only as deep as our ability to love one another, and our ability to love one another is only as deep as our ability to weep with one another.” -  Valarie Kaur
 
About our guest: 
Valarie Kaur is a renowned civil rights leader, lawyer, award-winning filmmaker, educator, author of the #1 LA Times Bestseller SEE NO STRANGER, and founder of the Revolutionary Love Project. A daughter of Punjabi Sikh farmers in California, her work has ignited a national movement to reclaim love as a force for justice. <a href="https://amzn.to/42Jz7Uw">See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love</a>. 
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 
The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s <a href="https://amzn.to/3GbAd2N">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2zLCCRT-nE">animations and explainers</a> have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.
 
Additional resources:
<a href="https://valariekaur.com/">Valarie Kaur’s website </a><a href="https://valariekaur.com/learninghub/">The Revolutionary Love Learning Hub</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Two options: <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">apply for one of her 1:1 sessions through the contact form at megandevine.co</a>, or <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">join our Patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A sessions. Either way, it’s your questions, answered.
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - <a href="https://amzn.to/3zBWvXJ">It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/43eXGda">How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a> 
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Get in touch:
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 
 
Follow the show on TikTok <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod">@itsokpod</a> and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms
 
For grief support &amp; education, follow us at @refugeingrief on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief">Twitter</a>, and <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief">TikTok</a>, and follow <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-devine-719344141/">Megan on LinkedIn</a>
 For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at <a href="https://www.megandevine.co/">megandevine.co</a>

Feeling Things with Amy & Kat is a podcast for anyone who’s ever had feelings—or wants to. Hosted by Amy Brown and therapist Kat Van Buren, this is a space where nothing is off-limits. From deep reflections on childhood to pop culture obsessions to what’s happening in the world, all feelings deserve a seat at the table—big, small, awkward, joyful, confusing, and everything in between. At its core, it’s real friends having real conversations about real feelings. Some episodes go deep, some stay light, but all are rooted in curiosity, honesty, and connection. In a world that moves fast, sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is pause... and feel things.

Feeling Things with Amy &amp; Kat is a podcast for anyone who&rsquo;s ever had feelings&mdash;or wants to. Hosted by Amy Brown and therapist Kat Van Buren, this is a space where nothing is off-limits. From deep reflections on childhood to pop culture obsessions to what&rsquo;s happening in the world, all feelings deserve a seat at the table&mdash;big, small, awkward, joyful, confusing, and everything in between. At its core, it&rsquo;s real friends having real conversations about real feelings. Some episodes go deep, some stay light, but all are rooted in curiosity, honesty, and connection. In a world that moves fast, sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is pause... and feel things.

Feeling Things with Amy & Kat 

Love, Action, and the Power of Wonder in the Face of Impossible Things with Valerie Kaur (from It’s Ok that You’re Not Ok with Megan Devine)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/da3e3eec-75ef-4e2e-b161-b034016865d2/transcript