485. Fearlessly Failing: Owen Teale - From Game Of Thrones to A Christmas Carol

Published Dec 3, 2023, 2:00 PM

This interview was a pinch me moment. This humble, kind, honest and did I mention Tony Award winning actor is in Melbourne to play Scrooge in A Christmas Carol (which is on now and extended it's shows until Jan 7th). In this chat we look at Owen's impressive and colourful career from being Barry the Bear at Barry Island Pleasure Park as a young lad before drama school. To the iconic role of Ser Allister Throne from Game of Thrones. He shares a very funny colonoscopy story. To theatre and working with Sir Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian McKellen (there's another funny Ian/Gandalf Lord of the Rings story too). Owen plays these incredible Villainous characters but when you speak to him in person, he's full of joy, he's all heart and extremely generous. I think he finds the fun in these "baddie" characters, and he remind me that "The devil always has the best lines!" Owen is often described as a big teddy bear and its just that. When he hugged me goodbye he gave me a big honest generous hug and i'll be honest, i got a bit teary. I think it's so rare when you meet people who truly lives with an open heart and people who see you. Owen is one of those rare ones, one of those people I feel very lucky I got to share an hour with one afternoon in Melbs. What a joy, and a gift I will carry with me forever. Thank you to the beautiful team at A Christmas Carol for making this happen, and thank you Owen, you are one of those brilliant humans with a spark in their heart. 

LINK:A Christmas carol:Get your tickets hereA Christmas Carol insta:Christmas Carol InstaMy insta:my instaBig love and here's to getting into the Festive Season!Lola 

Get a. I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest about their highs as well as their lows, all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello, Welcome to the pod. I am so excited about today's podcast. I'm going to be really honest with you. I didn't expect it to come through and I'm so wrapped that it just happened. And it was one of those experiences that I will absolutely cherish forever. Today's guest is the wonderful Owen Teal, incredible Welsh actor, and I was so lucky be invited to the opening night of a play that he's in Melbourne called a Christmas Carol and he plays Scrooge and it is this beautiful story about humanity and about facing our past and how the past can affect the future and the present as well, and it's just such a beautiful Christmas story, one for the whole fam. And when I got invited to this opening night, I responded and said, Oh, is there any way I can interview Owen Teal. I'm a massive Game of Thrones fan, and they were like, oh, you know, all these media commitments are done. We'll try, We'll try. And I was like, ah, if this is going to pull off, And it pulled off. And he is the most wonderful human being, so giving, so kind and honest and humble, like this is a Tony Award winning actor and you know, if you are a Game of Thrones fan like me, he plays is the iconic and villainous Sir Alistair Thorn from Game of Thrones, and he shared so many stories about you know, all of it, like theater, movies, tally and just so honestly, and he's very very funny as well. There's some fantastic stories that I just hope you're driving along listening to this or walking or whatever, you're on a flight listening to this, and you're just like, oh, my goodness, I hope you just burst out laughing because he was such a joyous human being to sit down with and so so giving, to the point that even when I got to give him a hug goodbye, and I would nearly got got teary because he's just so his spirit is so kind and his heart is so kind, and you know when you're around those people, they just kind of like fill you up and make you feel so seen and yeah, incredible human. I will cherish this episode forever and I hope that you love it as well, and I hope it inspires you to connect it and connect but also like honor your passion and honor your calling. And if you're in Melbourne, please go and see a Christmas Carol. It's on till January seventh. That's actually had to extend because it's so popular and it is just such a great night out to get you into the Chrissy spirit. And I think the kids are gonna love it as well. And the production values are amazing. It's just it's magical. It's pure magic and please do yourself a favor and see it. And beautiful Ohen, thank you so much for sharing an afternoon with me and doing this pod. It means more than you know. You are appsolutely wonderful. Welcome to the pod.

Owen Teale, Thank you for having me.

Do you know you have one of my favorite voices in the world.

Oh you're so kind. Thank you it's obviously fashioned out over my experiences.

Well like grab it out, like you've got this lucky thing.

Well, it's very strange because a lot of people ask back home, that is it something to do with where you come from? Because I come from a place called Porl Tolbert, and that is where Michael Sheen, Anthony Hopkins.

I did do a Google.

Yeah you do all this. I'm Richard Burton. Yeah, you know. And so you think, well, there is something going on with all these voices, but I don't really understand what it can be. Don't ask me. It must be in the water.

I think since having a pod, I get so excited when I get to hear someone's voice and I'm like, oh, that's going to be fantastic. So first of all, I have to say, yeah, I went. I went to see Christmas Carol last night. Absolutely loved it. You did so did you have so much fun? It seems like and two sounding ovations last night? We were all just we were drinking it up.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's it's designed, it's beautiful. It's a real alchemy of a show that the writing, the direction, and the musical arrangement. Carols they won a Tony Awards, But I mean, you know it's up against musical, the original scores and this is an arrangement of Christmas Carols.

Incredible, so incredible. Okay, so I want to talk everything Christmas Eve start. Let's kick off straight away. So last year you were Scrooge at the Old Vick, right, and I've heard that you bought your costume with you from Yes, this is a really weird question, but I feel like actors a costume shoes like kind of helped form choices. Was it quite special for you to bring that same costume.

Very much, very much, very much helped by the wonderful designer Rob Howell. He knew that, so he put that into action that to recover the bits that were mine to come here. Because you're building a world and you know you're playing a character that is sort of anti matter. He's against the show. He doesn't want it to happen. So you have to build you know, your armor around you to go into battle even though you know you're going to lose in the end, and give it up for a good time.

How cool it was the first thing I thought when I saw you because the I don't know, what's that like? It's not a capy. It's like that over Cody.

Yeah yeah, the old and then there's this with you yeah.

Yeah, you know, and I was like, oh, that would totally affect choices as an actor. I nerd out over actors, by the way, just to give you the heads up. So, if this this was written one hundred and eighty years ago, right originally Charles Dickens, what do you think makes it so incredbly There's something it's there's something so like it doesn't matter. One hundred and eighty years later it hit it's still bits of it hit us in the heart. And it's this especially Scrooged. Your character goes from this beautiful arc and quite a transformation. What do you think it speaks to to today's audience.

Well, I think it hasn't. The point is it hasn't been disproved. So it's been around for all these years, and each time you come back to it, you you relearn or learn for the first time something that you need for your life. So that's why it's still with us. It's been revived in this particular version so beautifully by Jack Thorn. So he has addressed certain things that he wants to say about life now without so he's leaning into Charles Dickens and taking a bit of his space. But I think, you know, I would hope that Charles Dickens would say, Wow, that's pretty good. Do you know what? That is pretty good?

Yeah? Well, i'll tell you what. Last night it felt pretty good because look, he's created a character.

And this is why it's so real now, is that he's not a two dimensional cartoon of a miser in a nightcap and a candle and all those things. It's about a man who has become a monster, and it will tell you along the way, without slowing the story down, how he became that monster, and you will relate to that story because the values that made him that monster we all have to deal with.

Yeah, yeah, big time. I think it was so powerful, Like not to give too much a way, but like at the very beginning the Ghost of Past, I was like, oh it was so nice because I almost felt like there was almost a very therapeutic quality to watching your character go through and having to face uncomfortable go back and sit with and face these uncomfortable things that have happened and as a result shaped his choices in life. I heard you right before we hit record on here say that sometimes in the theater, the audience has such an impact on how a show feels. How did it feel last night? Because as an audience member, last night, it felt like we were part of the whole experience and it was this almost spiritually you know what I mean.

Yeah, it did get a bit. It did for me because you know, you put it out and then you get a bit back from the audience, and so you then take it on and you get more. And then you think, as an old director like me, you mustn't let an audience take control. If you allow them to laugh too much, you'll interrupt the flow and the narrative will will start to come down the land. You got to keep it in the air. You've got to keep it going. Look, the short version is it couldn't have gone better. Yeah, last night.

It felt so I'm one of those people that get I get quite emotional when I go to the theater because it's like you get to touch our hearts and that's what's so cool about theater and like and I love like movies and TV shows. I think they have a different kind of escapism quality. But there's something about the theater where you get to be changed in that moment with all that, it's a collective, it completely is, and that's the I think that's one of the magical things about theater, right.

Yeah, it's that's why I do it. It's the drug that gets me up. And that's why I'm here, traveled all this way because I believe in this show very much. And so at the point when Scrooge actually then interacts with the audience, he comes into the moment, he's in the same he's on the same page as the audience. You get to literally be amongst them. It's like a camaraderie or extraordinary collective experience.

Well, thank you for last night. I have to say you were phenomenal, as was the whole cast.

Look, you know, he's coming on and he's trying to disprove what Christmas is supposed to be. You know, he says, what is it but a time for paying bills without money. It's a time for finding yourself a year older and not one hour richer, and you know, these things ping and people go, He's got a point, and I you know, maybe we need people like that as well to balance. You know, everything is in balance, is in a state of balance, and it's just that he's gone far. He's in a That's what I mean by monster. It's something as the balance has gone.

But isn't it beautiful then to get to watch him? Yeah, like go through this? Can I ask a very practical question. You must have to be stay quite fit and healthy because there's a point where you run around the whole or like bought the Stall's part, and I was like, oh my goodness, and I'm imagining you're doing what eight shows a week.

That's a lot, it is, And every time it comes up, I think, am I really going to run now around? Yeah? I'm doing it, and yeah I'm coming through. But I think that's the you know by then, if it's worked, we are greater than the sum of the parts in the room. And that is this amazing Australian cast. They can sing, dance, instruments, pick up each other's instruments and start playing them a clog dance? What more do you want? And they're wonderful actors.

Yeah, and you could The thing that I loved most I noticed that this especially with Well I was watching everyone, but I could see it in Bernie Curry's face there's like a passion for being in that moment on that stage, sharing this energy, and there's you could just the whole jaw that is that. I was like, Oh, you're meant to be there, right, and this is like it feels like that with you as well. But I just remember thinking that person really.

Love like you know what I mean, an amazing performer, an amazing kind of heart, a generous thing that can fill a room with this smile.

Yeah, how lucky gift. So I just want to ask a little bit more about theater because I think, I know you've had such an incredible theater career, and I know you're a bit of a Shakespeare nerd as well. You've done something did you do four years of the real Shakespeare? But I listened to this podcast it's called play Crush, and you talked all about Macbeth and your love for Macbeth and it made me fall completely and I was like, I got to read Macbeth again, like I need to record. And so you've had such an incredible theatrical career. Is there any moments that stand out to you aside? I definitely want to talk of course about a Doll's House and Tony, but like in there are moments where you're just like, oh yeah, like the way you were saying last night, there's this alchemy kind of thing that happens. But you've done Macbeth, You've done I've got a whole list here he has said, No Man's Land. That looked like a fun one.

Yeah with McKellen, Yeah, Patrick Stewart, Yeah, yeah, yeah, really was that was like that was that was like being part of the most famous circus in the world. And we went on tour and whenever we talk it, you know, there would there would be literally people like an entourage forming and people falling and coming in and saying they're here, come into the square, They're about to begin, you know, and and there's these these two guys who were just legends.

And did you have to hide Ian behind your jacket one day leaving at a stage door show? Was that a different was That's why?

Yeah, we came here with that. We came to Sydney. It was a dance of death by Striinberg and Ian myself and Francis still a tour was an amazing actress and we came here. It's twenty years ago and so it was the third of the Lord of the Rings film.

Oh, there we go.

So he was just yes, it was enormous, and there would be these crowds of people outside the stage door. It was in London, and as we came out and not a lot of them had seen the show. They were just they just knew Gandalf was going to be there. And so he would be sort of, you know, well, if they've bought the tickets, then that would be very nice. I'd like to say thank you to them. But if they haven't, then I'm not really interested. So I said, okay, well, there's a lot of people out there. He said, so so let's go for supper and you go out and I'll come behind you. And you're very big, and he had, you know, and he had his flat cap on and his coat and said right, are you ready and he went yes, So how we go. We go through the store and it works. At first. Nobody's interested in me. This is Pregame of Thrones. Yeah, just no problem at all. So they're looking around me as I'm pushing influence. Excuse me, excuse me, and he has tucked in behind me. It's going to head down, whereupon I am confronted as I the parting of the sea, and in front of me is Gandalf life stick, life size. If I out, it's a little bit bigger than me. And he's staring at me saying, you know, nangel part in this pose. He's looking at me like this thing, this is incredible and it stops me. So Ian bumps into the back and what and I just I'm afraid expose you and and say I'm sorry, but you know there's somebody you might know. He looks up, he looks up at himself, his Candalf, and the man is standing there with the big shoppy pen. He's ready and says Steie, and he's got him now, and he says, could you sign it please? And Ian is not very happy and looking at this and he's wondering the provenance of this. Where's this guy got this from? You know, it's an exhibition or only something's gone somewhere, you know, a promotion, And so so he goes. He grabs the pen and he says to whom and says sorry. He says to whom, what's your name? So he says, no, no, could you just sign it? And of course Ian knows and we all know now that it's worth far more. If he doesn't put a name on it. The guy can put a ticket onto eBay, of course, if he wants to. So the guy goes, no, no, no, could you just sign it? It's just no, true, you have a name, so good. Now there's a huge crowd.

Now, so good. Did he went out in the end? Did you put a name?

Yeah, he did, he put a name. But you know, but but we kind of lost because then we were surrounded by Gandalf lovers.

So funny it was.

It was surreal, totally Syria and surreal Syria and surreal.

So I have to say, I imagine a Tony nineteen ninety seven adult's house. Yeah, that's got to be a pinch yourself moment.

Yeah, Yet again it's I think when these pinching moments happen, you're not really in control of them. And that's part of the wisdom is to learn to live with that. So you just accept it because you get so many things that don't work out, so much failure along the way, and you know, you try to keep those things in your head like, well it's just failed, better next time, and but you you keep going and and then something does really take off, and that was that was a case in point. I mean, it did well in London and it transferred, but there was something about the heat of it and the New Yorkmnians and they got so involved. So the winning award didn't feel like it was something that I'd been the architect of. It was. I just happened to be the vessel that it was happening to because I would I don't know if you know the play, but I don't.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you didn't your co actress also like whyyah and the play one?

The play one, Yeah, incredible, I know, I know for a Nibsen you know again about one hundred and forty years old on Broadway, you know, and there was just it just was the big hit of that of that year. But it just sparked so much debate between men and women. Of course, you know, when he's been rather brutal to her when she when she says I'm going to leave, and he says, is in a way you will leave and your children? And you know, because he hasn't had a drink, he hasn't gone off with another woman, he hasn't ticked any of those boxes. So how can you call me a monster, and she says, I'm going because I don't know who I am. There's so many women and in the audience, and he does shout a bit and get a bit male and and she goes off into the room and he says, instead of saying sorry, he says, you shouldn't have pushed me. You see what happens when you push me. And a woman on the front row stood up, and I was sitting really near the front of the stage and she stood up. She said, you busted out. And I looked at her because I was sitting down and she wasn't that much lower than me by the time she'd stood up, And I thought, wow, if I engaged now with this, I'm trying to talk to her, the play's gone. Yeah, I've just got to write it out. And then the nusher came along and grabbed a hold of it, and she was so upset. She clearly had an experience. Yeah, it would and a sort of gaslighting thing where the man then starts to say, why did you do that? It's your fault.

How incredible that theater can do that, though well, exactly that's I mean, it would have been a very confronting experience I imagine for you in the moment in quite a light heavy.

Yeah, it's about collaboration. You know, I'm not going to come out, I'm not a one at any point in this going to say yeah, because you know what, I'm pretty good. It's it's there's lots of people who are pretty good. It's about chemistry. It's about collaboration, and then something happens between people that much greater than the two can manufacture on their own.

And that comes back to that, like you're a conduit or vessel and it's something yeah, happens to you. Yeah, it's like that they say in a theater. Director said to me once, it's like when an angel walks upon upon the stage. There's this moment where there's just such alchemy that you're just like, that's bigger than me. I'm just here completely enjoying completely. Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal. Okay, Like I said, I could go Banana's asking you the theatery stuff. I just you mentioned failure just then, and I heard this brilliant quote from you, and I love it. And I just think I interview a fair few actors, directors, writers on this show, and for a young actor. If they heard this, I think they'd be like, yeah, But it's if you can survive the moments when things don't go your way, you can make it. And it's that like surviving the failure. There stepbacks and not backs, because I imagine you've had them along the way.

Full of it, full of my I feel like I'm free falling in failure because failure is what you have in your head of what success might be. That's the equation that can go wrong. If you can learn from your mistakes, because you know what you were aiming at and you haven't got there, a something else will appear. You must be open and ready to adapt. The readiness is all you know. That's a hamlet thing, you know. It's so much is chance. So the chance will at times fall your way. But if you're not ready, if you can't recognize that and seize it, then you'll miss the energy. You'll bump down again, Whereas if you pick it up, you can actually keep that energy up and you will have a greater energy to write the next.

Yeah, not back, of course.

Yeah. I like the readiness, and it's the readiness is all you know, and that's why you're right. I do have to keep as fit as I can at my age, and I'm not party too heavily.

Yeah, you know, well I was Opening Night last night. Friend. I hope you had a little celebratory.

I had a little celebratory, but I did not hang one on, as they say I have done in my past. I'm no stranger to that, but I did not. I was tired, and I ended up talking to people who are far more drunk than me. And do you know that feeling when do you think, oh, yeah, I'm not sure you're making any sense.

I'm kind of like that's the perfect time too.

Yeah.

So can I just say you have been such a joy to research, because there's such a fun body of work. Like I was watching Line of Duty, and then I'm watching a Discovery of Witches. How fun, so much fun. And then I mean, of course Game of Thrones.

But the rig, the rig, I love the rig.

The thing I love about this. Actually, before I talk about that, I watched a movie two nights ago and I cried five times in it, Dream Horse.

What a great, lovely film.

And your character Daisy had this like because we know you was like often the villain right in some things, but like that I was like, no, you're like the soften like you hold space for other characters. Yeah, obviously stuff with strength, because that's your whole.

It's thank you, Yes, And I I was very very touch starts to Winner after comery, for I just recognized. Do you know I think, as I'm talking to you now that when I say there's so much failure on it, the whole thing is I think that my idea of success as a young person was somebody who was like a like a typical Hollywood legend Carry Grant or something. So you don't look like Carry Grant, so the world is not going to accept you as Carry Grant. So you feel you're failing all the time. But I've always been able to say, well, well what else is there? Maybe I could audition for this other part. And I've learned an awful lot more about life by playing some of the darker characters and finding that I could do that, and that being recognized, and that's you know, those shows becoming successful at times, obviously Game of Thrones, and then that giving you greater opportunity, the more more choices, Yeah, but never really playing the out and note handsome hero anymore. I did when I was very young.

I feel like everything you play that there is like yes, so yes to talk about Yeah, Line of Duty and Game of Thrones, there's there's like a villainous quality. Today, I imagine that'd be a bit of fun.

It's a lot of fun because if you're the if you're the dark side of a story, a you'll get tremendous dialogue, you'll get great lines. Everybody knows that, but the best lines of the devils. But but what you'll also get is you will get your moment in the sun because the story needs it, It needs the opposition, that's the drama. So if you're playing one of the guys who's just in the office in the background and you know is well meaning guy and he comes in and out and he's got quite a lot of scenes, you won't have as much impact on the story as if you're the dark force, because you could they've got to deal with the story has got to deal with it, and you're often there in order to make somebody look heroic and beautiful, like Kit Harrington is.

John Snow, do you know when you said yes to this part? I said to my boyfriend, I call him Boss. I was like Boss we're watching Game of Thrones. He goes, how much I go from the start again. So we every night we'd set it up and well it was it's He's like, we're really going to strap in. This is a commitment. But I guess there are so the thing that I love about your character in Game of Thrones, Aster Thorne. You get these moments of like you said it, you know that Henry the fifth kind of moment where you know you're all these even I love your last lines like it's it's I thought I lost.

And he accepts that. You know, he has an ethos that you can buy into because he is he makes the world very black and white. And those people are very very powerful. They may be lying to you, but they they're easy to follow, and they say to you, don't think, just feel and come with me. I know, and it's it's amazingly powerful. And everybody's in interview situations just like this will say, you know, how does it feel to be to be hated? But I don't, I can't hear. That's not what I guess I think.

But I think also your character died in honor. Yeah, because even at that stabbing moment, it was for the watch right.

For the watch. If there's three words I've had to say more in my life, then I have.

To ask this. And I like, as I asked this, I asked I reckon five of my closes. I said to my mom, my dad, my wofriends, like, can I ask this question? But I heard you share on a podcast the most the funniest story I think I've ever heard about a colon oscary. Oh, yeah, you don't have to be one of it's.

In the world, of course I will. Look, you've met me now for a few minutes. You you kind of know where we are. I don't really, it's all open. So yeah, it's a few years ago now, and they did this this kind of big wide sweeping program. Right, anybody over the age of fifty five, you've got to have a colonoscopy. We're going to, you know, improve the figures on this. So went yeah, because my dad had, yeah, colonic cancer. Absolutely, So off I trot down to the local hospital. And I've been once before for colonoscopy because of this worry about my dad, probably about five years previously, but it had been on a in a private, you know situation. So you have all the nice touches.

Did you get sedated for the first time?

Mildly, very mildly, lovely bit of something to take.

The edge of Yeah, because here you get knocked out, Just so you know, are you really you're completely okay?

No, I think I can remember it. But it was a very pleasant memory and got it. When you think about what's happening to you, that's amazing, of course, but on this occasion, of course, no. I tell them at the hospital next and it's like a cattle market. They're just opening doors, men going through, filing through, fighting through. And then they said to me, I'm sorry, but there's no more changing room space, but we've got this. You wouldn't mind, would you? And I thought it would be in the in the loo, never mind, And it was. It was a janitor's cupboard. It's a caretaker's cupboard, and there was a mop and a bucket. And I said, don't whatever you do, not at this point in your career start saying things like you realize who I am? You know? No, no, no, no, no, just do it. Just so I get undressed, to put on the funny the gown that you know, buttons up at the back and you put on these funny little sort of see through shorties and it's sold a bit. Okay, okay, here we go, so take me nothing, no hint of any sort of joke of what's going on. Very serious, serious, and I said, I mentioned the anesthetist, any chance of They said, oh no, we haven't got time for that. I said, oh, brutalless it's going to be brutally and they said, don't worry, you know, it's all right. We're professionals. And I said, yeah, yeah, of course. So there I am, and I can lie on the bed and his nurses going around and I adopt the fetal position, and his his nibs is standing at one end of me, and I'm taking a look at him and making sure I can see what he's up to. And then he says, okay, now this is this is all it is. It's long, you know, it's a wire. It's quite quite firm, and I'll be able to put I said, just do it, just do it, and he starts his work and I'm getting on with it, and it's deeply uncomfortable, and I'm thrilled that he's looking at a screen and every thing seems very clear. And then it starts to hurt really quite a lot. Now it's stun to her. And I said, oh, that's that's My eyes are wading now. And he said, yeah, well, here we go. I've just got to take one more bend. I said, hold on, you've got a body yard and a half of them already, know, so just just calm it now. And he says, I'd love to take this one last bend. And I said, all right, then, just this one last bend. And he puts a little pressure, shoves up a bit more and I go and he leans over and he says, that's for killing John Snow. I look up at him. I mean just shocked. I turn around. All the nurses are diving out of the way, they're laughing, they're running out of the room. And then he said, oh, answer, sorry, that was a bit unprofessional, wasn't it. I said, yeah, just a little, just a little, And he said, oh sorry, But anyway, good news is it's all clear. But can we have a photograph with you and me? Like a fool, says well yeah, well, what is there to lose now? Any dignity is gone, so I said, and I'm still in the super stupid shorts, and they're all now with their arms around me going for the watch.

That's incredible.

My GP actually said to me, do you want to make a formal complain about it? I said, no, no, it's a great story, a great story I have.

I've listened to that pod. That's my favorite pard you've done, and I reckon, I've listened to it three times. Still it's the best. Sorry, honestly, thank you so much for sharing that. I was I was quiet. I was like, can I ask it? Can I not? Can I? And I haven't heard you talk about this before. What was the audition process like for Game of Thrones? Because it kind of picked up like it picked up, pa M because I remember you.

No. No, Well, so for me it was I hadn't been around when they were doing the pilot. I'd been doing something else. And famously there was a pilot and then they that's right, and they changed a lot of the characters, and mine was one of the characters they changed. So I didn't have very much time to think about it, which is probably good in retrospect. One of the producers had seen me in a doll's house. I knew that not David and Dan, the creators but Frank and he I think I thought I was pretty good casting. I don't really know, but they did anyway, the whole team very quickly. I did a test. They were already in Belfast. Yeah, they said, get him on a plane and I came out and I started to read it, and the time I got off the plane, I was I had so many questions which weren't really what they were hoping. I was going to say, such as, so it's got dragons in it? Is it for children? You thought this? And they said, no, no, it's not. It's not for children. Knowing okay, so how many different stories have you got running at the same time? And I can't remember how The answer was how many houses? How many things the wall? And it's like it's exactly, It's like saying something right, you've got to go back down and go to university and study europeandie, you know, pre Renaissance history, and then actually the last bit is going to be the whole Renaissance and you go, oh, it's a bit daunting, isn't it. So I when people ask me, I said, wow, I don't think it'll ever be mainstream because.

Niche Yeah, it was so like fantasy and a whole different people just they just did because I I.

Was still thinking, well, people want to come in a lot of working people work very hard. They may reach for a beer or something, they want to have a meal and and hopefully it goes well. And the family and the kids haven't you know, destroyed the house and and they want to chill. And yeah, they're like thrillers and that, but it's in short episodes things that they can go boom, yeah, oh I feel great, now, go go to bed or whatever you want to do. This you would have to watch it and then rewatch it in order to make sure that you'd miss anything. Otherwise, people, you know, whole storylines are coming up and going where have we gone now?

Yeah?

So yeah, I was a doubter.

Wow, my friend, what a fun What a fun thing to just be a part of. And just have you had such dark but fun moments like watching you like in the lead up to this, I was like, that would have been so much fun, aren't that?

Yeah?

And like great like scenes of camaraderie and like you you know, no matter what happened to, your character never lost honor, No, even when it was kind of chips were against you, and you know it's it would have been fun to sit in that. Yeah, energy will be it dark.

Well, I tell you what it reminded me of as well. He had an element to him is a character that pops up in politics a lot, and in terms of war and things like that. You know, there's a bit of Trump, you know that he that's what he puts forward, and whether that's true or not is a matter for debate, but that's what he puts forward. It's very simple. But the greatness of what makes us and not to trust too many liberal ideas, you know, And that's what he's saying to John Snow, you're going to get us all killed if you carry on like this. And a lot of people relate to that. It's a powerful So he's not a distant sort of baddie that doesn't exist in the world. He reminds them of people that they see on their television screens and they feel comfortable with somebody who was so assured that they've got the answer. And it's based on experience as well.

I imagine just sitting in that, I feel like it would have been so much fun, and even especially some of the latest scenes would have felt like being on a massive movie set, like protecting the Wall, like incredible, like so much fun, so much fun.

The Battle of the War. Yes, the camera that did three hundred and sixty degrees sort of inside the battle and was able to go round and round round, and we were all fighting, you know, at the same fun. Amazing.

Okay, I would talk to you all day long if I could. There's one more quote that I think. This one I've heard on a different really deep dive view in case you can't tell, but this was a different podcast. You must equally distrust the opinions of others and also enjoy them at the exact same time, in a heartbeat, say thank you, even if somebody is slagging you off, say thank you so much. And if you can do that, then you've probably made the right You're probably made of the right stuff to be an actor.

Yes, that's very true.

It's like that water off a duck's back, right.

It has to be water of for ducks back, but it also has to be put away. It's not that you ignored or said because even though it may be coming from a rather vindictive place. That's a strong word, but it could be rather really nast a little bit of an edge to it. You have to be able to take it, but to think about the content because it's they're unrelated sometimes who is saying it, whether it's your greatest ally or your champion or your enemy and to some degree or somebody who somebody's so damaged themselves that they want to just make you unhappy. I've had had quite a bit of that in my time, people sort of distrusting and not liking the fact that I'm quite easy going really and they want you to they want to bring you down.

Wasn't there an expectation that you would follow in your dad's footsteps and go still works? And was it your aunt that was like like this is a hobby. This acting, it's a hobby, and look you've just what.

Are you going to do when you come back? Because you might not get into the steelworks. It was a huge employer. It was the sort of mothership that was feeding all these homes in South Wales. It was at one time the largest steel works in Europe.

It was so seene as a great opportunity.

Great opportunity, Why would you? And then the thing was as I left and went to drama school, Margaret Thancher came into power completely dismantled. Oh there you go, took it apart and there was more unemployment. There was record unemployment. There you go.

My final acting question is you would bury the Bear?

Yes?

Was that a pleasure park?

It was Barry Island. Come on, I was Burry the Bear. Did you get it? Yeah? Got it. He's the eponymous bet, he's important, he's big, and is it true?

You were like, oh, bit over this town, I'm going to jump on the ferris wheel.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, come down.

Eventually got fired and your mates, the dog and the rabbit, were like that, you can't fire him. And they're the ones that inspired you to go to drama school.

We had solidarity. Yes, yeah, they said no one out, all out, all the animals.

And that was kind of your first taste before drama school.

It was I didn't really understand what drama school was. I knew people studied at university, but I didn't understand about vocational training that you could go away and there was you could train how co in acting And they said, but you've got all the right material, You've got to go and do this. So I had to say goodbye to Barry. You know, because I'd really become one with Barry. But we've been through so much together. I don't know where I ended and Barry began. You know. It was it was like that moment when I was fired. There was a guy screaming at me, you're fucking fir in your neck, and there's loads of children seven or eight years of old age around me, going, why is he shouting at Barry? Why is the man shouting at Barry?

The happy bear?

Happy bear?

I heard as well, you had a trick Like if a kid like tried to like play a trick on you, knock your head.

On him, and you've really done your work, you really don't.

I love knowing where people come from, Like I love the I'm here for the journey. So I think we should wrap this up with a little bit of something Christmas y. Yeah, I love the word oil.

Oil well said, Did I say it right? I did?

Can you teach the listeners what that's all?

Right? Well, hoile is the spirit that is engendered when you get together. You can't have hoil on your own. It's it is a bit of camaraderie, it's a bit of the crack. Is the Irish when people start spontaneously singing, and usually there's a fair amount of alcohol involved, but it's the collective we go back to that. It's about being part. So when we sing the national anthem that is oil, that is you are part of something much much greater than your than yourself. I love it. You tap your tapping into the spirit. And yeah, it's a wonderful word. Very old. The Welsh language is much much older than English.

It's such a beautiful dialect. And and I feel like we got to feel that last night.

Yes, at the play that was Hoil.

It felt real, especially when everything was going on to give too much way to the listener, So to the listener, please go and see Christmas. Carol absolutely wonderful in it. And I feel very honored to have you on this podcast. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lola Berry. This potty my word for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe rpe and comment, and of course spread the love

Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry

This is a podcast about failure with author, nutritionist and yoga teacher, Lola Berry. Here we wil 
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