Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature oh Michael Thompson. Electric vehicles are perhaps unsurprisingly back in the news after Tesla reported a thirteen percent drop in sales for the last quarter. Now, Tesla's facing a lot of challenges right now, part because of Elon Musk's politics, but largely driven by greater competition from companies like China's BYD, and we are seeing that here in Australia. Last month, BYD sold eight thousand, one hundred and fifty six vehicles. That's up almost three hundred and sixty eight percent year on year. It's enough to make it the fifth most popular car brand for the month, just behind Hyundai, but ahead of manufacturers like Kia and Mitsubishi Subaru. Tesla doesn't even make the top ten, which leads us to today's interview. Last year we spoke with Trent Nikolic, who is the managing editor of Drive dot com dot Au, about evs in Australia and some of the unique challenges that we have here that other countries kind of don't.

Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature oh Michael Thompson. Electric vehicles are perhaps unsurprisingly back in the news after Tesla reported a thirteen percent drop in sales for the last quarter. Now, Tesla's facing a lot of challenges right now, part because of Elon Musk's politics, but largely driven by greater competition from companies like China's BYD, and we are seeing that here in Australia. Last month, BYD sold eight thousand, one hundred and fifty six vehicles. That's up almost three hundred and sixty eight percent year on year. It's enough to make it the fifth most popular car brand for the month, just behind Hyundai, but ahead of manufacturers like Kia and Mitsubishi Subaru. Tesla doesn't even make the top ten, which leads us to today's interview. Last year we spoke with Trent Nikolic, who is the managing editor of Drive dot com dot Au, about evs in Australia and some of the unique challenges that we have here that other countries kind of don't.

Now.

Now.

When Sean Aylmer spoke with Trent, Trent was doing a lap of the map in an EV who was driving right around Australia to see just how difficult it is. It is a great chat. I hope you enjoy it.

When Sean Aylmer spoke with Trent, Trent was doing a lap of the map in an EV who was driving right around Australia to see just how difficult it is. It is a great chat. I hope you enjoy it.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure, Almam. Is the shift to electric vehicles losing momentum. Last week Australian ev charging company Tritium went into administration, just two years after the CEO stood alongside US President Joe Biden at a press conference promoting the technology is the future of Charging. Then in the March quarter, Tesla sales fell world short of expectations, around three hundred and eighty seven thousand supposed to deliver about four hundred and fifty thousand locally. There was a record number of vvs sold in March, but the electric share of the market actually went backwards. At the same time, the international Energy agencies forecasting electric car sales hit seventeen million this year. That's three million more than last year. So what is the outlook for electric vehicles right now? Could we be seeing some of the initial enthusiasm waning and maybe a longer term shift towards hybrid vehicles instead, particularly in Australia. Whenever we have a question about cars of any variety, we go to Trent Nikolic, the managing editor of drive dot com dot a. You the absolute guru of all things vehicles related. Trent, Welcome back to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure, Almam. Is the shift to electric vehicles losing momentum. Last week Australian ev charging company Tritium went into administration, just two years after the CEO stood alongside US President Joe Biden at a press conference promoting the technology is the future of Charging. Then in the March quarter, Tesla sales fell world short of expectations, around three hundred and eighty seven thousand supposed to deliver about four hundred and fifty thousand locally. There was a record number of vvs sold in March, but the electric share of the market actually went backwards. At the same time, the international Energy agencies forecasting electric car sales hit seventeen million this year. That's three million more than last year. So what is the outlook for electric vehicles right now? Could we be seeing some of the initial enthusiasm waning and maybe a longer term shift towards hybrid vehicles instead, particularly in Australia. Whenever we have a question about cars of any variety, we go to Trent Nikolic, the managing editor of drive dot com dot a. You the absolute guru of all things vehicles related. Trent, Welcome back to Fear and Greed.

Hello, mate, Thank you for the intro and it's a pleasure to be back. Now.

Hello, mate, Thank you for the intro and it's a pleasure to be back. Now.

I know we've got lots to talk about. You've been driving an ev around Australia.

I know we've got lots to talk about. You've been driving an ev around Australia.

Is that right, haddick go, Yeah, it's going slowly mate. There's been a lot of sitting on the side of the road waiting for the vehicle to charge. And one of the reasons we did it so we're doing a series of TV episodes for a show that we do on Channel nine. But one of the reasons that we did it was just to have a look at some of the issues with charging in remote regional areas and have a look at some of the realities because plenty of people are out there, you know, speaking the virtues of electric cars and talking about all of the things that they do. Well, you find even when you speak to someone who owns an electric vehicle, they're willing, especially on camera, if we say we're going to interview them and ask them some questions. They have this remarkable tendency to tell us all the amazing and wonderful things and then when you turn the camera off, they say, oh, yeah, but we had a problem with this, but this chargeer didn't work, but we got stuck here.

Is that right, haddick go, Yeah, it's going slowly mate. There's been a lot of sitting on the side of the road waiting for the vehicle to charge. And one of the reasons we did it so we're doing a series of TV episodes for a show that we do on Channel nine. But one of the reasons that we did it was just to have a look at some of the issues with charging in remote regional areas and have a look at some of the realities because plenty of people are out there, you know, speaking the virtues of electric cars and talking about all of the things that they do. Well, you find even when you speak to someone who owns an electric vehicle, they're willing, especially on camera, if we say we're going to interview them and ask them some questions. They have this remarkable tendency to tell us all the amazing and wonderful things and then when you turn the camera off, they say, oh, yeah, but we had a problem with this, but this chargeer didn't work, but we got stuck here.

So is that the main issue is charging, the fact that you've got to plan your trip past the time to charge. It's not like you can fill it up in five minutes.

So is that the main issue is charging, the fact that you've got to plan your trip past the time to charge. It's not like you can fill it up in five minutes.

No, No, this is the big issue. Sean.

No, No, this is the big issue. Sean.

Absolutely, electric vehicles in isolation are fantastic. They're great things to drive. They're fast, they're quiet, they're refined, they're comfortable. They've got really good response in terms of how they react to you as the driver. They're really enjoyable things to drive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the driving experience of an electric vehicle. The two barriers to them in a country like Australia are one price, because they're still too expensive, especially when you compare them to an equivalent internal combustion vehicle, and then to the public charging. It's all well and good to say that I can charge it overnight at home, or I can charge it during the day at work. If my office or my you know, workplace provides charging for me, that's fine.

Absolutely, electric vehicles in isolation are fantastic. They're great things to drive. They're fast, they're quiet, they're refined, they're comfortable. They've got really good response in terms of how they react to you as the driver. They're really enjoyable things to drive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the driving experience of an electric vehicle. The two barriers to them in a country like Australia are one price, because they're still too expensive, especially when you compare them to an equivalent internal combustion vehicle, and then to the public charging. It's all well and good to say that I can charge it overnight at home, or I can charge it during the day at work. If my office or my you know, workplace provides charging for me, that's fine.

If you've got access to that, no problem at all.

If you've got access to that, no problem at all.

But when you're out on the road and you're relying on public charging infrastructure, we are absolutely nowhere close to where we need to be, even for the number of electric vehicles that we have on the road in Australia now, let alone what the projections would forecast that we might have in five or ten years.

But when you're out on the road and you're relying on public charging infrastructure, we are absolutely nowhere close to where we need to be, even for the number of electric vehicles that we have on the road in Australia now, let alone what the projections would forecast that we might have in five or ten years.

So that brings us the Tritium, which was focusing on manufacturing these charging stations that had sort of pushed into the US away from Australia. I don't know whether you know much about a Tritium story. You know, it's kind of what went wrong there. But is there a solution I suppose with a charging Is there a solution yet for that?

So that brings us the Tritium, which was focusing on manufacturing these charging stations that had sort of pushed into the US away from Australia. I don't know whether you know much about a Tritium story. You know, it's kind of what went wrong there. But is there a solution I suppose with a charging Is there a solution yet for that?

Yeah, So on one hand, your sort of patriotic way of looking at it is to be sad, you know that an Australian company or a largely rasing company hasn't worked out and hasn't succeeded. But on the other hand, I'm just left with a lot of these charging solutions around the world, thinking to myself that they were built largely on the premise of government incentives and injections of money to help them set up a business that may not have been either a planned particularly well or be profitable in real terms, because you know, if you and I go and start up a restaurant tomorrow with our own money, we're going to do it very differently to if we started up with you know, a million bucks that the government's given us, and we don't really care too much about what five or ten years down the road looks like. And I wonder with some of this infrastructure, and Tritium is probably a good example. It was just set up in such a way that they rushed it out, didn't really plan it correctly, and maybe it was never going to work from the outset.

Yeah, So on one hand, your sort of patriotic way of looking at it is to be sad, you know that an Australian company or a largely rasing company hasn't worked out and hasn't succeeded. But on the other hand, I'm just left with a lot of these charging solutions around the world, thinking to myself that they were built largely on the premise of government incentives and injections of money to help them set up a business that may not have been either a planned particularly well or be profitable in real terms, because you know, if you and I go and start up a restaurant tomorrow with our own money, we're going to do it very differently to if we started up with you know, a million bucks that the government's given us, and we don't really care too much about what five or ten years down the road looks like. And I wonder with some of this infrastructure, and Tritium is probably a good example. It was just set up in such a way that they rushed it out, didn't really plan it correctly, and maybe it was never going to work from the outset.

Are we very close to having a solution where I can pull into a charging station and fill up even in ten minutes rather than two and a half hours.

Are we very close to having a solution where I can pull into a charging station and fill up even in ten minutes rather than two and a half hours.

We're close in in terms of the technology being available, Like if you can access a three hundred and fifty killer what charger, you can put some real charge into your battery very quickly. But when I speak to engineers around the world, one of the barriers to charging them really quickly is heat. And the more often you do it, the more damage you're doing to the battery pack. They don't love it. They don't like being superheated when you do that, so that's an issue as well. But in real terms, are those three fifty killer what charges broadly available around Australia. No, will they be broadly available anytime soon?

We're close in in terms of the technology being available, Like if you can access a three hundred and fifty killer what charger, you can put some real charge into your battery very quickly. But when I speak to engineers around the world, one of the barriers to charging them really quickly is heat. And the more often you do it, the more damage you're doing to the battery pack. They don't love it. They don't like being superheated when you do that, so that's an issue as well. But in real terms, are those three fifty killer what charges broadly available around Australia. No, will they be broadly available anytime soon?

I doubt it.

I doubt it.

And then if you're talking about fifty killer what chargers and you've got a vehicle like the key to EV nine that we've been driving at the moment, and this is real basic mats, right, But if you're driving an EV nine like we are, with a one hundred killer what hour battery, if you've got that down to fifty percent, you are on that fifty killer what charger for an hour minimum. If you're down near ten or twenty percent, it's going to be closer to two hours. And for a lot of people in a lot of instances, I mean picture mum and dad and two young kids doing a road trip.

And then if you're talking about fifty killer what chargers and you've got a vehicle like the key to EV nine that we've been driving at the moment, and this is real basic mats, right, But if you're driving an EV nine like we are, with a one hundred killer what hour battery, if you've got that down to fifty percent, you are on that fifty killer what charger for an hour minimum. If you're down near ten or twenty percent, it's going to be closer to two hours. And for a lot of people in a lot of instances, I mean picture mum and dad and two young kids doing a road trip.

Do they want to be stuck on the side.

Do they want to be stuck on the side.

Of the road in thirty eight degree heat with two screaming kids for two hours?

Of the road in thirty eight degree heat with two screaming kids for two hours?

I don't think.

I don't think.

So stay with me, Trent, we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot com Dot au okay, So what is the future for evs in australiace, I mean, rather than going too broad to begin with. In the last couple of days, Tesla's come out, Elo Muscle's come out said he's going to pull forward production of cheaper evs. I mean, there's probably still a way to go, and presumably that happens in China and the US first, But do you think it will hit Australia and is that enough to make a difference or is this a hybrid country?

So stay with me, Trent, we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot com Dot au okay, So what is the future for evs in australiace, I mean, rather than going too broad to begin with. In the last couple of days, Tesla's come out, Elo Muscle's come out said he's going to pull forward production of cheaper evs. I mean, there's probably still a way to go, and presumably that happens in China and the US first, But do you think it will hit Australia and is that enough to make a difference or is this a hybrid country?

Look at the moment where a hybrid country. There's no doubt about that. I think if Australians had a choice right now broadly between an electric vehicle and a hybrid, they take a hybrid ten to one. I wouldn't estimate because it makes a lot more sense and it's a lot easier for them to use. I think what Elon Musk has said about more affordable electric vehicles absolutely uncategorically would have to happen if you're going to get more people to buy them, because the biggest barrier at the moment is priced.

Look at the moment where a hybrid country. There's no doubt about that. I think if Australians had a choice right now broadly between an electric vehicle and a hybrid, they take a hybrid ten to one. I wouldn't estimate because it makes a lot more sense and it's a lot easier for them to use. I think what Elon Musk has said about more affordable electric vehicles absolutely uncategorically would have to happen if you're going to get more people to buy them, because the biggest barrier at the moment is priced.

There's absolutely no doubt about that.

There's absolutely no doubt about that.

So I think more affordable electric vehicles on sale would make a difference However, the really interesting thing to sit back from the outside and watch is have we reached a point now where the initial take up from people who were genuinely interested in buying an electric vehicle has started to tail off a little bit, And now the companies are facing the hard cell. Now they have to go out and convince people who don't really want one, who an electric vehicle won't really work for right now, do the manufacturers now have to try to force them to buy an electric vehicle because the people who really want one have already got one.

So I think more affordable electric vehicles on sale would make a difference However, the really interesting thing to sit back from the outside and watch is have we reached a point now where the initial take up from people who were genuinely interested in buying an electric vehicle has started to tail off a little bit, And now the companies are facing the hard cell. Now they have to go out and convince people who don't really want one, who an electric vehicle won't really work for right now, do the manufacturers now have to try to force them to buy an electric vehicle because the people who really want one have already got one.

So in terms of the big sellers now, and these are the internal combustion, the forward ranges of highlights, etc. Is there an EV equivalent that's going to do the job for trades that needs to be done?

So in terms of the big sellers now, and these are the internal combustion, the forward ranges of highlights, etc. Is there an EV equivalent that's going to do the job for trades that needs to be done?

Yeah?

Yeah?

See this is the other great question, right. So when we say EV equivalent, yes, there is an electric vehicle that looks like a ranger or a high luck. So there's an LDV electric jewel cab. There is now a company in Queensland called oz Ev that's converting the F one fifty Lightning, which is a full size F one to fifty that's electric. They look like a regular pickup or a duel cab, but when we say equivalent, they don't perform anything like them, because if you load them up or put a caravan behind it or a big trailer, they're going to cut their range in half and you're going to be left doing two hundred kilometers or one hundred and fifty k's on a charge.

See this is the other great question, right. So when we say EV equivalent, yes, there is an electric vehicle that looks like a ranger or a high luck. So there's an LDV electric jewel cab. There is now a company in Queensland called oz Ev that's converting the F one fifty Lightning, which is a full size F one to fifty that's electric. They look like a regular pickup or a duel cab, but when we say equivalent, they don't perform anything like them, because if you load them up or put a caravan behind it or a big trailer, they're going to cut their range in half and you're going to be left doing two hundred kilometers or one hundred and fifty k's on a charge.

Plus you're spending.

Plus you're spending.

An inordinate amount more money on them to buy them in the first place. So I think the real challenge for any manufacturer anywhere in the world is to come up with, I guess, a believable solution for trade's and work vehicles because duel cabs, single cabs, with our alloy trays, vans, light trucks, they're the real challenge. To make them electric and to make them efficient when they're electric, that's the real challenge.

An inordinate amount more money on them to buy them in the first place. So I think the real challenge for any manufacturer anywhere in the world is to come up with, I guess, a believable solution for trade's and work vehicles because duel cabs, single cabs, with our alloy trays, vans, light trucks, they're the real challenge. To make them electric and to make them efficient when they're electric, that's the real challenge.

Okay, try and I've asked you this question a few years ago because I am again in the market to buy a car.

Okay, try and I've asked you this question a few years ago because I am again in the market to buy a car.

I know what you're going to ask me.

I know what you're going to ask me.

Well to we actually, Jackie, my partner has a hybrid, a RAB for hybrid, which I think is about as good a car as I have ever driven. To you in that price range, what are the best hybrids, What are the ones I should be.

Well to we actually, Jackie, my partner has a hybrid, a RAB for hybrid, which I think is about as good a car as I have ever driven. To you in that price range, what are the best hybrids, What are the ones I should be.

Looking at look at the moment, and it's really quite interesting that Toyota really still is setting the standard in terms of how a hybrid works and how you integrate a hybrid into your life. The other one that I'd recommend you and your partner have a look at is the Nissan X trail ePower. So it's a hybrid, but it's a little bit different. It's got a small petrol engine that works as a generator. The generator charges a battery pack, which then drives electric motors, so the petrol engine never drive the car, which with your rav four it does. So I think Niss and Z power system is a really good one, and it's a new solution and a new alternative to have a look at. He under hybrids tending to be quite efficient as well, but I still think the Toyota systems really do set the standard.

Looking at look at the moment, and it's really quite interesting that Toyota really still is setting the standard in terms of how a hybrid works and how you integrate a hybrid into your life. The other one that I'd recommend you and your partner have a look at is the Nissan X trail ePower. So it's a hybrid, but it's a little bit different. It's got a small petrol engine that works as a generator. The generator charges a battery pack, which then drives electric motors, so the petrol engine never drive the car, which with your rav four it does. So I think Niss and Z power system is a really good one, and it's a new solution and a new alternative to have a look at. He under hybrids tending to be quite efficient as well, but I still think the Toyota systems really do set the standard.

Okay, it does sound though that the Nissan is a little bit more hybrid, more a little bit more ev than internal combustion.

Okay, it does sound though that the Nissan is a little bit more hybrid, more a little bit more ev than internal combustion.

Yeah, it's a little bit more of a step towards an electric vehicle because what you get with that is you get the sort of sensation and feedback of driving an electric vehicle without the issues of charging because you just fill up a petrol tank as you would be accustomed to. So I think it's one that people should have a look at if they want to make a half step towards an electric vehicle. And I certainly think if you live in the city, if you never do long road trips, if you don't toe anything, or if you're a two car family, I certainly think you could consider an electric vehicle.

Yeah, it's a little bit more of a step towards an electric vehicle because what you get with that is you get the sort of sensation and feedback of driving an electric vehicle without the issues of charging because you just fill up a petrol tank as you would be accustomed to. So I think it's one that people should have a look at if they want to make a half step towards an electric vehicle. And I certainly think if you live in the city, if you never do long road trips, if you don't toe anything, or if you're a two car family, I certainly think you could consider an electric vehicle.

There's no doubt about that.

There's no doubt about that.

But I think for a lot of Australians they're just not practical yet.

But I think for a lot of Australians they're just not practical yet.

Trent, thank you for talking to If you're and greed pleasure mate.

Trent, thank you for talking to If you're and greed pleasure mate.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That was Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot com dot Au and keep an eye out for that show on nine Network, Trent driving around the country in an ev This is a Fear and Greed business interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed at Daily Business Us. For people who make their own decisions, I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.

That was Trent Nikolic, managing editor of Drive dot com dot Au and keep an eye out for that show on nine Network, Trent driving around the country in an ev This is a Fear and Greed business interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed at Daily Business Us. For people who make their own decisions, I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.