Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm suan Alma. While the votes in many seats are still being countered, the result, at least for the Liberal Party couldn't be more clear. The party is in serious trouble. Labor went from behind in the polls for chance of securing minority government to winning majority so significant that Anthony Alberanezi could well be Prime Minister for at least another six years. So how does the Liberal Party regroup when they've lost so many seats, including their leader? And how does the Labor Party make the most of a huge mandate from Australian voters. Charles Crutcher is the Chief Political editor for nine years. Charles, Welcome to Fear and Greeting. Congratulations on the campaign and Saturday and Night in particular.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm suan Alma. While the votes in many seats are still being countered, the result, at least for the Liberal Party couldn't be more clear. The party is in serious trouble. Labor went from behind in the polls for chance of securing minority government to winning majority so significant that Anthony Alberanezi could well be Prime Minister for at least another six years. So how does the Liberal Party regroup when they've lost so many seats, including their leader? And how does the Labor Party make the most of a huge mandate from Australian voters. Charles Crutcher is the Chief Political editor for nine years. Charles, Welcome to Fear and Greeting. Congratulations on the campaign and Saturday and Night in particular.

Thanks so much, Sewan. It's nice to be through all.

Thanks so much, Sewan. It's nice to be through all.

My what's it like? What's that campaign like? It must just be relentless, it.

My what's it like? What's that campaign like? It must just be relentless, it.

Is, it's such a like. It's so far removed from what any normal Dagan, any normal job is like. So you are largely in the hand of the parties when you're on the road, and in those circumstances you are entirely in their hands because they are they know where they're going, they know where the planes are going, the buses are going, and the reporters often don't. That's originally designed so that there's no protesters show up, or that information doesn't leak out to those who want to disrupt. But I think they just like being in charge, so you kind of have to just lay back like it's a water slide, and except igure it's in charge of where you're going, and I hope you merge the other.

Is, it's such a like. It's so far removed from what any normal Dagan, any normal job is like. So you are largely in the hand of the parties when you're on the road, and in those circumstances you are entirely in their hands because they are they know where they're going, they know where the planes are going, the buses are going, and the reporters often don't. That's originally designed so that there's no protesters show up, or that information doesn't leak out to those who want to disrupt. But I think they just like being in charge, so you kind of have to just lay back like it's a water slide, and except igure it's in charge of where you're going, and I hope you merge the other.

End fair enough. An election campaign that's a lot water slide. I do like that the Libs let's start with him where they go wrong.

End fair enough. An election campaign that's a lot water slide. I do like that the Libs let's start with him where they go wrong.

There's a lot that the campaign wasn't good. The coordination, the disparity between what was happening on the road and what was happening out of headquarters was there. I think the probably underdiscussed element of the campaign is just how controlling and how in charge Scott Morrison was in the last campaign, at last two campaigns. You know, he was a former state director and someone who liked to be in charge of what was happening where he was going would have been heavily involved. So I think whilst it was an experienced a campaign team. Once you remove Scott Morrison from that team, there was a bit of a vacuum there. Look, Donald Trump certainly didn't help with his tariffs and also the antics around President Zelanski and the lead up to the election campaign that made things bad. And then I also think they lost the debate over nuclear and so you know, each of those things individually is bad, but when you get bad plus bad plus bad, it equals very bad for Peter Dutton and that's what we saw as well.

There's a lot that the campaign wasn't good. The coordination, the disparity between what was happening on the road and what was happening out of headquarters was there. I think the probably underdiscussed element of the campaign is just how controlling and how in charge Scott Morrison was in the last campaign, at last two campaigns. You know, he was a former state director and someone who liked to be in charge of what was happening where he was going would have been heavily involved. So I think whilst it was an experienced a campaign team. Once you remove Scott Morrison from that team, there was a bit of a vacuum there. Look, Donald Trump certainly didn't help with his tariffs and also the antics around President Zelanski and the lead up to the election campaign that made things bad. And then I also think they lost the debate over nuclear and so you know, each of those things individually is bad, but when you get bad plus bad plus bad, it equals very bad for Peter Dutton and that's what we saw as well.

What about the female vote. Do you think that played much of a role?

What about the female vote. Do you think that played much of a role?

Oh? Huge, It may have been the biggest individual cohort to turn away from Peter Dutton unless you want to further divide, which I know is never a nice thing to do, but further divide the voting cohorts into young females. Certainly, from what the campaigns say their internals told them was that that was the biggest drop off. And I don't see at the moment, at least in the discussions there's any real acknowledgment that that problem needs to be fixed from the Liberal Party. Jane hum and Brian Locknane did a review after the last campaign and that was one of the key issues was that women abandoned the coalition in many situations they went to independence or to the teals. You know, it seems that lesson wasn't learned and there's very little to be learned from the second kick of a mule. And that's what the Liberal Party face right now. Whether they will learn that lesson, then whether there is a suitable amount of people that have been elected to actually fill those roles that perhaps they need to see.

Oh? Huge, It may have been the biggest individual cohort to turn away from Peter Dutton unless you want to further divide, which I know is never a nice thing to do, but further divide the voting cohorts into young females. Certainly, from what the campaigns say their internals told them was that that was the biggest drop off. And I don't see at the moment, at least in the discussions there's any real acknowledgment that that problem needs to be fixed from the Liberal Party. Jane hum and Brian Locknane did a review after the last campaign and that was one of the key issues was that women abandoned the coalition in many situations they went to independence or to the teals. You know, it seems that lesson wasn't learned and there's very little to be learned from the second kick of a mule. And that's what the Liberal Party face right now. Whether they will learn that lesson, then whether there is a suitable amount of people that have been elected to actually fill those roles that perhaps they need to see.

So who will lead the Liberal Party? It is very difficult once you have been absolutely smashed, like the Libs have federally to kind of have a united party because clearly everyone's blaming everyone and that's kind of human nature, I suppose. But who do you think emerges from this as a potential leader.

So who will lead the Liberal Party? It is very difficult once you have been absolutely smashed, like the Libs have federally to kind of have a united party because clearly everyone's blaming everyone and that's kind of human nature, I suppose. But who do you think emerges from this as a potential leader.

Look, the safest bet at the moment would be Angus Taylor. In many ways, he has the credentials outside of Parliament to be a Liberal leader, as a Rhodes scholar, someone that's been successful in business, He's from Liberal and national families. But then in the early days of this campaign he was the target of a lot of internal blind siding and broad siding that was going on. I think there is some that now have publicly said that I think he should have the job. The other two names that any time you mention it to MPs that still have their seats is Susan Lee, deputy leader would become the first woman to lead the Liberal Party. Or Dan Tien, who fought off a big challenge from Alex Dyson and his seat of Wannen, has worked in the trade field outside of Parliament, has come in, was the Trade Minister, has become shadow Immigration Minister, recently fleece the Brits with that Fleet free trade agreement that we got when Liz Trust was the British Trade Minister, and I think that would be part of his appeal. But the problem is bigger than that. It's not just a matter of feeling a leader and a deputy leader, because if you take any of those people out of their positions, you need to feel that position. And so when you look around the party room it is shrunk and that next generation of talent, people like David Coleman in Sydney, Michael Sucker out of Melbourne in particular, have lost their jobs, have lost their seats. Even someone like Zoe Mackenzie, who worked for Andrew rob the Trade Minister for a long time as his chief of staff, is seen by most as a rising star of the party. She's in the fight of a life in Flinders to hold that seat. If she does, she'ld be part of a leadership team. Tim Wilson this afternoon looks like he's back in the Parliament having unseated Zoe Daniel in set of Goldstein. I think he'll come straight into some kind of leadership team. Whether or not the next Liberal Prime Minister is among the names we've just mentioned is up to serious debate, because when you throw in someone like Andrew Hasty in Wa who says he doesn't want to be leader, that's probably a wise if he wants to be prime minister. And the other name getting kicked around is Phil Thompson, who's another veteran, quite a young guy from up in Townsville. Had a good result on Saturday night. So it's not quite a who's who of who's that, But it's a lot of names that will be new to Australians. Now they'll have time to get used to those names and to see them perform, but they've got an awfully large challenge ahead of them.

Look, the safest bet at the moment would be Angus Taylor. In many ways, he has the credentials outside of Parliament to be a Liberal leader, as a Rhodes scholar, someone that's been successful in business, He's from Liberal and national families. But then in the early days of this campaign he was the target of a lot of internal blind siding and broad siding that was going on. I think there is some that now have publicly said that I think he should have the job. The other two names that any time you mention it to MPs that still have their seats is Susan Lee, deputy leader would become the first woman to lead the Liberal Party. Or Dan Tien, who fought off a big challenge from Alex Dyson and his seat of Wannen, has worked in the trade field outside of Parliament, has come in, was the Trade Minister, has become shadow Immigration Minister, recently fleece the Brits with that Fleet free trade agreement that we got when Liz Trust was the British Trade Minister, and I think that would be part of his appeal. But the problem is bigger than that. It's not just a matter of feeling a leader and a deputy leader, because if you take any of those people out of their positions, you need to feel that position. And so when you look around the party room it is shrunk and that next generation of talent, people like David Coleman in Sydney, Michael Sucker out of Melbourne in particular, have lost their jobs, have lost their seats. Even someone like Zoe Mackenzie, who worked for Andrew rob the Trade Minister for a long time as his chief of staff, is seen by most as a rising star of the party. She's in the fight of a life in Flinders to hold that seat. If she does, she'ld be part of a leadership team. Tim Wilson this afternoon looks like he's back in the Parliament having unseated Zoe Daniel in set of Goldstein. I think he'll come straight into some kind of leadership team. Whether or not the next Liberal Prime Minister is among the names we've just mentioned is up to serious debate, because when you throw in someone like Andrew Hasty in Wa who says he doesn't want to be leader, that's probably a wise if he wants to be prime minister. And the other name getting kicked around is Phil Thompson, who's another veteran, quite a young guy from up in Townsville. Had a good result on Saturday night. So it's not quite a who's who of who's that, But it's a lot of names that will be new to Australians. Now they'll have time to get used to those names and to see them perform, but they've got an awfully large challenge ahead of them.

Say with me, Charles. We'll be back in a minute to talk about the other side of politics. My guest this morning is Charles Croucher, chief political editor for nine years. Such a massive win for Anthony Abernezi, big mandate. What does he do.

Say with me, Charles. We'll be back in a minute to talk about the other side of politics. My guest this morning is Charles Croucher, chief political editor for nine years. Such a massive win for Anthony Abernezi, big mandate. What does he do.

That's a big challenge, right, there's a big win. But there's been big wins in Australia in the past. I think at John Howard in two thousand and four, who had both the House and the Senate and was out of his own seat and certainly out of leadership. Three years later, Campbell Newman had a stonking whin in Queensland and was gone at the next election. These things can have a great power and great possibility, but also high risk as well. Anthony Albernezi still faces and the country still face those same challenges that were there two weeks ago. Housing is a huge issue, the cost of living remains a struggle. Productivity is the biggest challenge that our economy faces, and without increases there things get worse. There is a large amount of debt and deficits still to come as well that need to be arrested at some point. And that's not to mention the bigger issues of trade potential trade wars between US and China, actual war in the Middle East, actual war in Europe, and great uncertainty around the world. So the thing the government probably has now is the confidence, the mandate and the certainty to move forward. A lot will depend on whether they can work with the Greens in the Senate, because it looks like that will be enough to get things through the Senate Labor plus the Greens, and if they need an extra vote then David called Jackie Lamby or Tammy Tyrrell or Fatima Payman or Lydia Thorpe. There's plenty of paths to get things through, so Parliament will be easier. It doesn't mean that the challenge is easier as well.

That's a big challenge, right, there's a big win. But there's been big wins in Australia in the past. I think at John Howard in two thousand and four, who had both the House and the Senate and was out of his own seat and certainly out of leadership. Three years later, Campbell Newman had a stonking whin in Queensland and was gone at the next election. These things can have a great power and great possibility, but also high risk as well. Anthony Albernezi still faces and the country still face those same challenges that were there two weeks ago. Housing is a huge issue, the cost of living remains a struggle. Productivity is the biggest challenge that our economy faces, and without increases there things get worse. There is a large amount of debt and deficits still to come as well that need to be arrested at some point. And that's not to mention the bigger issues of trade potential trade wars between US and China, actual war in the Middle East, actual war in Europe, and great uncertainty around the world. So the thing the government probably has now is the confidence, the mandate and the certainty to move forward. A lot will depend on whether they can work with the Greens in the Senate, because it looks like that will be enough to get things through the Senate Labor plus the Greens, and if they need an extra vote then David called Jackie Lamby or Tammy Tyrrell or Fatima Payman or Lydia Thorpe. There's plenty of paths to get things through, so Parliament will be easier. It doesn't mean that the challenge is easier as well.

Do you think they have the appetite and the wherewithal to actually be a reformist government of the kind of hawk keeping ilk.

Do you think they have the appetite and the wherewithal to actually be a reformist government of the kind of hawk keeping ilk.

Certainly there's the appetite, there is the desire to be that way. Jim Chalmers in particular has spoken about his desire. But I think that goes to probably the biggest challenge. If there is the bravery or the ability to take to the next election the idea of tax reform. You know we are and we all know, the challenge that we are increasingly relying on income tax at a time when that's making things harder for those that are voters. Is their energy reform that can come. It seems the nuclear question has been put to bed, and you know, we had reporting last night on the program of the first sitting Liberal senator to say they put it in the bin, that policy's done. So now that we have the certainty or at least the endorsement of the Australian people, can Chris Bowen or whoever becomes Energy Minister I assume it's going to be Chris Bowen, Can they get out and get things done? You know, does green hydro exist and can we make it viable as a base load power? Can we roll out batteries so that our amazing uptake of home rooftop solar can be valuable to the country. Is there the poles and wires to get the wind and the solar to people that need it? Because energy is the economy, and is there the opportunity to turn those natural advantages Australia has in sun and wind but also what's under the ground into more than just stuff we ship to China and India and Brazil. Can we turn that into a manufacturing sector that can actually provide jobs and create innovation and encourage Australians to take risks as well, because that's what's lacking at the moment, and that goes back to that productivity question.

Certainly there's the appetite, there is the desire to be that way. Jim Chalmers in particular has spoken about his desire. But I think that goes to probably the biggest challenge. If there is the bravery or the ability to take to the next election the idea of tax reform. You know we are and we all know, the challenge that we are increasingly relying on income tax at a time when that's making things harder for those that are voters. Is their energy reform that can come. It seems the nuclear question has been put to bed, and you know, we had reporting last night on the program of the first sitting Liberal senator to say they put it in the bin, that policy's done. So now that we have the certainty or at least the endorsement of the Australian people, can Chris Bowen or whoever becomes Energy Minister I assume it's going to be Chris Bowen, Can they get out and get things done? You know, does green hydro exist and can we make it viable as a base load power? Can we roll out batteries so that our amazing uptake of home rooftop solar can be valuable to the country. Is there the poles and wires to get the wind and the solar to people that need it? Because energy is the economy, and is there the opportunity to turn those natural advantages Australia has in sun and wind but also what's under the ground into more than just stuff we ship to China and India and Brazil. Can we turn that into a manufacturing sector that can actually provide jobs and create innovation and encourage Australians to take risks as well, because that's what's lacking at the moment, and that goes back to that productivity question.

Okay, so let's just move on to the next political party or cohortan on a party. The Teals they didn't quite do as well as I thought they might do.

Okay, so let's just move on to the next political party or cohortan on a party. The Teals they didn't quite do as well as I thought they might do.

Yeah, I thought we'd come back with more Teals. It looks like we're going to come back with fewer now. Given it was a standing start, that's a difficult challenge. I think a lot of people sort of reverted back to the parties or back to labor. Perhaps there wasn't the anti Scott Morrison sentiment that was there by the end of his time as Prime minister. It's still that the Teals are still occupying seats that the Liberal Party would consider tried and tested Liberal seats. You know, Tom White over in Wa and Curtain where Kate Cheney won again Columbinet. Tommy he was the next Liberal Prime minister. He thought it was a great candidate and he's lost there. So more talent gone wentworth you know, it's blue blood Liberal area Malcolm Turnbull's old seat. Wringer Tony Abbotts old, you can do the rounds mckella, it's still there's still Liberal Terry Tree that as long as the Teals are there, I think it becomes too hard for the Liberal Party to govern because you've got to fight so much harder for seats in the outer suburbs while still keeping a message for the inner suburbs. What it means for the Teals now that once again they don't have the balance of power that perhaps they sought, can they apply the pressure. A Legra spender was saying there wasn't much opposition last time. The Teals could be the opposition and the Independence and the cross Bench. Maybe that's true.

Yeah, I thought we'd come back with more Teals. It looks like we're going to come back with fewer now. Given it was a standing start, that's a difficult challenge. I think a lot of people sort of reverted back to the parties or back to labor. Perhaps there wasn't the anti Scott Morrison sentiment that was there by the end of his time as Prime minister. It's still that the Teals are still occupying seats that the Liberal Party would consider tried and tested Liberal seats. You know, Tom White over in Wa and Curtain where Kate Cheney won again Columbinet. Tommy he was the next Liberal Prime minister. He thought it was a great candidate and he's lost there. So more talent gone wentworth you know, it's blue blood Liberal area Malcolm Turnbull's old seat. Wringer Tony Abbotts old, you can do the rounds mckella, it's still there's still Liberal Terry Tree that as long as the Teals are there, I think it becomes too hard for the Liberal Party to govern because you've got to fight so much harder for seats in the outer suburbs while still keeping a message for the inner suburbs. What it means for the Teals now that once again they don't have the balance of power that perhaps they sought, can they apply the pressure. A Legra spender was saying there wasn't much opposition last time. The Teals could be the opposition and the Independence and the cross Bench. Maybe that's true.

You see then on that the Greens. Not a good election for the Greens certainly in the House of Reps.

You see then on that the Greens. Not a good election for the Greens certainly in the House of Reps.

No, not a good election in the House of Reps. I think in the Senate they'd say they've done all right and the actual share of the vote wasn't too bad. But I think that really pivoted around the fact that the Greens under Max Channelmayer, who was the Housing spokesperson who's lost his seat, became this party of renters and they were on a winner there. They seem to be tapping into a really angry part of the electorate and then international events intervened and the Greens this is callous and I don't know took their eye if the ball sounds wrong because of how serious what they were looking at in the Middle East was. And it's not like it was a distraction, but it got away from a message that resonated with a lot of the voters and with the majority of voters, and they probably paid the price with losing two, if not three seats on Saturday. We wait and see with Adam Bant, but the signs aren't looking good for the Green's leader.

No, not a good election in the House of Reps. I think in the Senate they'd say they've done all right and the actual share of the vote wasn't too bad. But I think that really pivoted around the fact that the Greens under Max Channelmayer, who was the Housing spokesperson who's lost his seat, became this party of renters and they were on a winner there. They seem to be tapping into a really angry part of the electorate and then international events intervened and the Greens this is callous and I don't know took their eye if the ball sounds wrong because of how serious what they were looking at in the Middle East was. And it's not like it was a distraction, but it got away from a message that resonated with a lot of the voters and with the majority of voters, and they probably paid the price with losing two, if not three seats on Saturday. We wait and see with Adam Bant, but the signs aren't looking good for the Green's leader.

Charles, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed anytime.

Charles, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed anytime.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was Charles Croucher, chief political editor out for nine years. This is the Fearing Greed, a daily interview. Joined us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Seane Elmer. Enjoy your day.

It was Charles Croucher, chief political editor out for nine years. This is the Fearing Greed, a daily interview. Joined us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Seane Elmer. Enjoy your day.