Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We talk a lot on this podcast about the need to get professional advice when making decisions about money. The same goes for business, most used accountants and bookkeepers, but in the case of small and medium- sized enterprises, could they be using them more effectively, and can accountants be doing more to advise their true value to businesses? Damien Greathead is the Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia, the makers of cloud accounting software, QuickBooks. He's also speaking at the Accounting Business Expo on the 14th and 15th of March in Melbourne, which is a supporter of this podcast. Damien, welcome to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We talk a lot on this podcast about the need to get professional advice when making decisions about money. The same goes for business, most used accountants and bookkeepers, but in the case of small and medium- sized enterprises, could they be using them more effectively, and can accountants be doing more to advise their true value to businesses? Damien Greathead is the Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia, the makers of cloud accounting software, QuickBooks. He's also speaking at the Accounting Business Expo on the 14th and 15th of March in Melbourne, which is a supporter of this podcast. Damien, welcome to Fear and Greed.

Yeah. Thanks for having me, Sean.

Yeah. Thanks for having me, Sean.

So recently you spoke about the true worth of accountant advisory services and the fact that many firms are actually offering premium services but don't quite know how to communicate that value. What is the value?

So recently you spoke about the true worth of accountant advisory services and the fact that many firms are actually offering premium services but don't quite know how to communicate that value. What is the value?

A really good question, and accountants and bookkeepers have a unique skill, and that skill is the ability to tell a story from a series of numbers, from a column of numbers. And those numbers come from the profit and loss, the balance sheet, the statement of cash flows, and they're able to tell a story about the health of a small, medium- sized business. Accountants and bookkeepers have that unique ability, whereas most small businesses, they love being a mechanic. They love being a baker. They love doing what they set their business up to do rather than the actual financial aspects of it, and so really the value that an accountant and bookkeeper can bring to a small business is helping business owners make better decisions based on those numbers. What are the numbers telling us about the business and how can we improve different parts of the business to bring about more revenue, more profit, a better statement of cash flows, for example. So that's where I think accountants and bookkeepers can really help their small businesses run better business.

A really good question, and accountants and bookkeepers have a unique skill, and that skill is the ability to tell a story from a series of numbers, from a column of numbers. And those numbers come from the profit and loss, the balance sheet, the statement of cash flows, and they're able to tell a story about the health of a small, medium- sized business. Accountants and bookkeepers have that unique ability, whereas most small businesses, they love being a mechanic. They love being a baker. They love doing what they set their business up to do rather than the actual financial aspects of it, and so really the value that an accountant and bookkeeper can bring to a small business is helping business owners make better decisions based on those numbers. What are the numbers telling us about the business and how can we improve different parts of the business to bring about more revenue, more profit, a better statement of cash flows, for example. So that's where I think accountants and bookkeepers can really help their small businesses run better business.

Do you think small business owners appreciate what accountants and bookkeepers can do or have the potential to do?

Do you think small business owners appreciate what accountants and bookkeepers can do or have the potential to do?

I don't think they know what they can do or what they have the potential to do, and that's where I think there's a bit of a gap in terms of accountants and bookkeepers really defining and better communicating the value that they can bring and what they can actually do. I think for the most part, accountants and bookkeepers are seen as that compliance side of things. Making sure the biz is done, making sure the taxes are done, the monthly bookkeeping, the monthly close, but I don't think they necessarily realize the power of an accountant and bookkeeper on their side, so to speak.

I don't think they know what they can do or what they have the potential to do, and that's where I think there's a bit of a gap in terms of accountants and bookkeepers really defining and better communicating the value that they can bring and what they can actually do. I think for the most part, accountants and bookkeepers are seen as that compliance side of things. Making sure the biz is done, making sure the taxes are done, the monthly bookkeeping, the monthly close, but I don't think they necessarily realize the power of an accountant and bookkeeper on their side, so to speak.

So I have a couple of, I'm ashamed to say I actually have a couple of accountants as opposed to one accountant because I have a couple of businesses. What I do find is I'm always, there's some trepidation, perhaps, in going to see an accountant, and maybe that's because of cost, but mostly it's because I fear I don't understand my business well enough. Every time I see them, I walk away feeling better about myself, is that typical?

So I have a couple of, I'm ashamed to say I actually have a couple of accountants as opposed to one accountant because I have a couple of businesses. What I do find is I'm always, there's some trepidation, perhaps, in going to see an accountant, and maybe that's because of cost, but mostly it's because I fear I don't understand my business well enough. Every time I see them, I walk away feeling better about myself, is that typical?

I've always understood accountants to be incredibly empathetic. That's one of the reasons why I love working in the accounting space. I worked in an accountant business for a brief period of time before I realized I was a terrible accountant. I love the technology, I love the client relationships, but actually understanding legislation and being able to interpret that legislation incredibly difficult. So I think there is some trepidation in terms of talking to an accountant. I think there's fear of, " Oh, hang on. How much is this going to cost me?" So I think there's a trepidation there, but also I just don't think accountants and bookkeepers are talking to their clients in simple terms to help them understand the real role that they can play in a business. And for example, a perfect cash flow, cash is king or cash is queen in a business, and a lot of businesses will have great revenue or great profit, but there won't be any cash to pay the bills. And an accountant can really help a small business owner understand why and understand the different levers that they can pull so as to free up that cash to pay those bills to make payroll, to pay down that credit card, but without that sort of insight, it's sometimes difficult to know what to do and when to do it.

I've always understood accountants to be incredibly empathetic. That's one of the reasons why I love working in the accounting space. I worked in an accountant business for a brief period of time before I realized I was a terrible accountant. I love the technology, I love the client relationships, but actually understanding legislation and being able to interpret that legislation incredibly difficult. So I think there is some trepidation in terms of talking to an accountant. I think there's fear of, " Oh, hang on. How much is this going to cost me?" So I think there's a trepidation there, but also I just don't think accountants and bookkeepers are talking to their clients in simple terms to help them understand the real role that they can play in a business. And for example, a perfect cash flow, cash is king or cash is queen in a business, and a lot of businesses will have great revenue or great profit, but there won't be any cash to pay the bills. And an accountant can really help a small business owner understand why and understand the different levers that they can pull so as to free up that cash to pay those bills to make payroll, to pay down that credit card, but without that sort of insight, it's sometimes difficult to know what to do and when to do it.

Okay. So that's cash flow planning. What about areas which we're hearing a lot more about cybersecurity, fraud prevention, those types of things?

Okay. So that's cash flow planning. What about areas which we're hearing a lot more about cybersecurity, fraud prevention, those types of things?

I think internal controls and fraud prevention, I think this is one of the most important areas where an accountant and bookkeeper can help small businesses really protect their business. At the end of the day, a small business is probably the most important asset to the individual clients in terms of its ability to generate revenue, ability to generate cash flow and ability to generate income, and there are very simple things that can be put in place to help protect that. If we look at the biggest causes of fraud within a small business, yes, there's a dark web. Yes, there's phishing scams and everything out there, but actually the biggest sources and most common sources of fraud are actually closer to home. Time fraud, for example, if we don't have good systems and good tools to capture our team's time, are we overpaying them? Are we underpaying them? So that's a cause of concern for a business. Accounts payable, if we don't have systems and protocols in place, how are we protecting the cash at bank when those bills come into pay? And unfortunately, what we do find, particularly with fraud is it's too late. The fraud has already happened when the accountants get involved, but actually an accountant and bookkeeper can very proactively set up reviews of a client's business just to make sure there are simple things in place. Are we tracking time correctly? Do we have the right mechanisms in place to do that? Making sure that it says two signatures or two levels of approval for certain payments. Do we have these simple measures in place that will protect the business from these very common areas of fraud? In terms of cybersecurity, look, there's a lot to know about cybersecurity, but I think at least talking to your clients about cybersecurity and then partnering with an expert in cybersecurity, that's really where, again, accountant and bookkeeper can provide value. I think that sometimes there is this fear that the accountant has to be this all- knowing Oracle, if you will, for a business owner, but actually... I lived 15 years in the US so this sports analogy might not work for the Australian audience, but the accountant can be that quarterback and really connecting the business owner with different experts to make sure the business is corrected. The accountant's perfect to talk about internal controls and financial controls, but maybe they'll partner with somebody to help their small business clients really understand the risks associated with cybersecurity. So I can provide some of it, or alternatively, I can be leveraging my network to help my clients as well.

I think internal controls and fraud prevention, I think this is one of the most important areas where an accountant and bookkeeper can help small businesses really protect their business. At the end of the day, a small business is probably the most important asset to the individual clients in terms of its ability to generate revenue, ability to generate cash flow and ability to generate income, and there are very simple things that can be put in place to help protect that. If we look at the biggest causes of fraud within a small business, yes, there's a dark web. Yes, there's phishing scams and everything out there, but actually the biggest sources and most common sources of fraud are actually closer to home. Time fraud, for example, if we don't have good systems and good tools to capture our team's time, are we overpaying them? Are we underpaying them? So that's a cause of concern for a business. Accounts payable, if we don't have systems and protocols in place, how are we protecting the cash at bank when those bills come into pay? And unfortunately, what we do find, particularly with fraud is it's too late. The fraud has already happened when the accountants get involved, but actually an accountant and bookkeeper can very proactively set up reviews of a client's business just to make sure there are simple things in place. Are we tracking time correctly? Do we have the right mechanisms in place to do that? Making sure that it says two signatures or two levels of approval for certain payments. Do we have these simple measures in place that will protect the business from these very common areas of fraud? In terms of cybersecurity, look, there's a lot to know about cybersecurity, but I think at least talking to your clients about cybersecurity and then partnering with an expert in cybersecurity, that's really where, again, accountant and bookkeeper can provide value. I think that sometimes there is this fear that the accountant has to be this all- knowing Oracle, if you will, for a business owner, but actually... I lived 15 years in the US so this sports analogy might not work for the Australian audience, but the accountant can be that quarterback and really connecting the business owner with different experts to make sure the business is corrected. The accountant's perfect to talk about internal controls and financial controls, but maybe they'll partner with somebody to help their small business clients really understand the risks associated with cybersecurity. So I can provide some of it, or alternatively, I can be leveraging my network to help my clients as well.

Stay with me, Damien. We'll be back in a minute. My guest this morning is Damien Greathead, Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia. Just the other area I wanted to talk about, in my experience, things like scenario planning and modeling, not that I went to the accountant to talk about it, but if you have a good relationship with your accountant, they don't necessarily tell you where to go, but they're always giving me ideas about how to think about the future.

Stay with me, Damien. We'll be back in a minute. My guest this morning is Damien Greathead, Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia. Just the other area I wanted to talk about, in my experience, things like scenario planning and modeling, not that I went to the accountant to talk about it, but if you have a good relationship with your accountant, they don't necessarily tell you where to go, but they're always giving me ideas about how to think about the future.

And I think that's really interesting as well, Sean, because again, they can look at those columns of numbers, and they can talk through different ideas of levers to pull, so I was up to free up cash. For example, they've got all the financial information and a tool like QuickBooks will certainly help in terms of doing some of this what if planning and what if scenario. So for example, what if our cost of goods are continuing to increase? So if the last 18 months we've seen our cost of goods increase by one and a half percentage points as an example, what's the impact between now and the end of the year if that trend continues and we don't make any changes to our pricing? That's going to impact our bottom line if we don't make any pricing adjustments. That's a really robust conversation, and the accountant's perfectly positioned because they have the data, they can understand the data. They may not know the answers, but they can certainly start asking the questions, and as you said, Sean, flagging a couple of ideas.

And I think that's really interesting as well, Sean, because again, they can look at those columns of numbers, and they can talk through different ideas of levers to pull, so I was up to free up cash. For example, they've got all the financial information and a tool like QuickBooks will certainly help in terms of doing some of this what if planning and what if scenario. So for example, what if our cost of goods are continuing to increase? So if the last 18 months we've seen our cost of goods increase by one and a half percentage points as an example, what's the impact between now and the end of the year if that trend continues and we don't make any changes to our pricing? That's going to impact our bottom line if we don't make any pricing adjustments. That's a really robust conversation, and the accountant's perfectly positioned because they have the data, they can understand the data. They may not know the answers, but they can certainly start asking the questions, and as you said, Sean, flagging a couple of ideas.

Yeah. You mentioned QuickBooks. Of course, Damien Greathead, that's where you are from. The use of technology in accounting SME land, that's changed enormously even in recent news, even in COVID times.

Yeah. You mentioned QuickBooks. Of course, Damien Greathead, that's where you are from. The use of technology in accounting SME land, that's changed enormously even in recent news, even in COVID times.

I think technology's a great leveler, and a lot of the AI and machine learning enabled tools that are here today that they were out of reach of small business three years ago, five years ago, and they continue to grow and improve week in, week out now. I think that's the really exciting thing that wherever you choose to do business, you have access to the same tool set as the big players. The key thing now is to make sure you've got the right people and the right partners, the right advisors to use those tools effectively. And again, I think accountants and bookkeepers play an important role in that, and again, I do think it's a really exciting time for small medium- sized business because they haven't had that access to the data. They haven't had access to the insights like they have before.

I think technology's a great leveler, and a lot of the AI and machine learning enabled tools that are here today that they were out of reach of small business three years ago, five years ago, and they continue to grow and improve week in, week out now. I think that's the really exciting thing that wherever you choose to do business, you have access to the same tool set as the big players. The key thing now is to make sure you've got the right people and the right partners, the right advisors to use those tools effectively. And again, I think accountants and bookkeepers play an important role in that, and again, I do think it's a really exciting time for small medium- sized business because they haven't had that access to the data. They haven't had access to the insights like they have before.

Damien, one final question. I have to mention it because it's where I started. It's about pricing. How can you be confident that there's transparent pricing, that you're getting value for money? Because I'm sure a lot of people don't use accountants and bookkeepers for that very reason, probably to their detriment, but still the accountants themselves have a job in convincing SMEs to come to them.

Damien, one final question. I have to mention it because it's where I started. It's about pricing. How can you be confident that there's transparent pricing, that you're getting value for money? Because I'm sure a lot of people don't use accountants and bookkeepers for that very reason, probably to their detriment, but still the accountants themselves have a job in convincing SMEs to come to them.

I think accountants and bookkeepers and lawyers, and those folks that have typically charged by the hour because they've typically charged for time, which is for their brain power, if you will, and so I think then that type of a model becomes very challenging for me as a consumer, as the business client because I don't know how long something's going to take. So this is where it's really important to bring in that transparency. So for example, that internal controls audit, that in theory is replicatable across businesses, so whether you're a baker, whether you are a mechanic, whether you're a dentist, that actual process should be fairly similar inside each and every business. And in theory, it shouldn't take any more than 90 minutes just to review everything. Recommendations and all that type of stuff, that'll be a different part of it. Same thing with the cash flow forecast, it probably takes 90 minutes to review the data and talk with the clients about some of the options. What comes from that, that's a different conversation, and so I would contend that accountants and bookkeepers can be better at helping clients understand the process, helping clients understand what they're doing, how long it's going to take, what's included in that quote. And I would feel confident pricing a service for 90 minutes to sit down with a client and talk about the internal controls, protecting their most valuable asset, protecting their income and cash flow, and that's going to cost you $ 450. I would feel very confident sitting down and having that conversation with clients and putting a price upfront because I know what I'm looking at, I know the questions I need to ask. What comes from that, that's the next side of things and the different projects to implement. But this idea that, " Oh look, we charged by the hour and it depends on how long it's going to take," that's not going to cut it in today's business environment.

I think accountants and bookkeepers and lawyers, and those folks that have typically charged by the hour because they've typically charged for time, which is for their brain power, if you will, and so I think then that type of a model becomes very challenging for me as a consumer, as the business client because I don't know how long something's going to take. So this is where it's really important to bring in that transparency. So for example, that internal controls audit, that in theory is replicatable across businesses, so whether you're a baker, whether you are a mechanic, whether you're a dentist, that actual process should be fairly similar inside each and every business. And in theory, it shouldn't take any more than 90 minutes just to review everything. Recommendations and all that type of stuff, that'll be a different part of it. Same thing with the cash flow forecast, it probably takes 90 minutes to review the data and talk with the clients about some of the options. What comes from that, that's a different conversation, and so I would contend that accountants and bookkeepers can be better at helping clients understand the process, helping clients understand what they're doing, how long it's going to take, what's included in that quote. And I would feel confident pricing a service for 90 minutes to sit down with a client and talk about the internal controls, protecting their most valuable asset, protecting their income and cash flow, and that's going to cost you $ 450. I would feel very confident sitting down and having that conversation with clients and putting a price upfront because I know what I'm looking at, I know the questions I need to ask. What comes from that, that's the next side of things and the different projects to implement. But this idea that, " Oh look, we charged by the hour and it depends on how long it's going to take," that's not going to cut it in today's business environment.

Damien, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Damien, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Sean, absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Sean, absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

That was Damien Greathead, Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia. Damien speaking at the Accounting Business Expo in Melbourne on March 14 and 15, which is a supporter of this podcast. Just search Accounting Business Expo for more, you'll find it. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.

That was Damien Greathead, Head of Marketing at Intuit Australia. Damien speaking at the Accounting Business Expo in Melbourne on March 14 and 15, which is a supporter of this podcast. Just search Accounting Business Expo for more, you'll find it. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.