Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Almer. It's a GM season, the time when shareholders here directly from the executives and boards running the companies they invest in, and can put their own questions to them as well. Importantly, it's also an opportunity for investors to vote on matters affecting the company. In many cases, shareholders don't attend or vote in person, instead appointing a proxy to do it for them, and that's where groups like the Australian Shareholders Association come in. As far as agms go, this is a big week. Telstra's holding it and you'll get together today. They've got more than a million shareholders Telstra Tomorrow's Commonwealth Bank. Stephen mab is the chair of the Australian Shareholders' Association. Steve and welcome to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Almer. It's a GM season, the time when shareholders here directly from the executives and boards running the companies they invest in, and can put their own questions to them as well. Importantly, it's also an opportunity for investors to vote on matters affecting the company. In many cases, shareholders don't attend or vote in person, instead appointing a proxy to do it for them, and that's where groups like the Australian Shareholders Association come in. As far as agms go, this is a big week. Telstra's holding it and you'll get together today. They've got more than a million shareholders Telstra Tomorrow's Commonwealth Bank. Stephen mab is the chair of the Australian Shareholders' Association. Steve and welcome to Fear and Greed.

You know, Sean, thanks very much for having me.

You know, Sean, thanks very much for having me.

Why is voting so important? So I'm a small retail shareholder, why should I vote?

Why is voting so important? So I'm a small retail shareholder, why should I vote?

Yeah, Look, it's a good question. And the truth is most people don't vote because it's pretty hard and it's pretty complicated, and I'm going to read this big, difficult report but why should you vote, Because if you don't, what happens is the chair of the meeting normally will vote your shareholding for you, and often that's not necessarily going to be in your best interest. If the chair or the board want to do something that maybe isn't great for you as an individual shareholder, it's probably better to go. And if you're not going to vote, to allocate your proxy to someone that would do that for you. All sounds a bit complicated, but basically it just means that you're giving someone else the right to vote for you on that particular day.

Yeah, Look, it's a good question. And the truth is most people don't vote because it's pretty hard and it's pretty complicated, and I'm going to read this big, difficult report but why should you vote, Because if you don't, what happens is the chair of the meeting normally will vote your shareholding for you, and often that's not necessarily going to be in your best interest. If the chair or the board want to do something that maybe isn't great for you as an individual shareholder, it's probably better to go. And if you're not going to vote, to allocate your proxy to someone that would do that for you. All sounds a bit complicated, but basically it just means that you're giving someone else the right to vote for you on that particular day.

So just go into that a little bit more.

So just go into that a little bit more.

So.

So.

Let's say I'm not going to turn up on the day and for some reason I can't do it remotely. That might be because I can't do it or the company's not providing those services, but I do want to have a say, and I do know that there are proxy firms and organizations that can help me out. So just explain how that works.

Let's say I'm not going to turn up on the day and for some reason I can't do it remotely. That might be because I can't do it or the company's not providing those services, but I do want to have a say, and I do know that there are proxy firms and organizations that can help me out. So just explain how that works.

Yeah, So there's the what we call the big proxy advisors, and they basically charge a fee and advise you big super funds or big fun matter which, etc. On how they should vote. If those folks aren't inclined to figure it out for themselves. It's a great service, but it's expensive. It's not something the average person can access. So that's really where the Shareholders Association comes in. We've got a couple of hundred volunteers all around the country that are individual shareholders themselves, and they'll dig into the annual report, they'll dig into the resolutions that are being put to shareholders at the AGM or the EGM and work out what is in your best interest as an individual shareholder. So from there, when you get your notice of meeting or the email or the letter in the mail that says hey, the AGM's coming up, it's time to vote, all you really need to do is write in Australian Shareholders Association in the proxy box and then the share Registry will get that information from you. We don't know who you are, it's all anonymous. We just get a big report at the end of the process where the share Registry says to us, this is how many votes you've been allocated or how many shareholders you've been allocated, and we go to the meeting. We'll vote accordingly, and also right up a report after the meeting as well and let everyone know how it went. And basically the way we're voting is figured out by our team of volunteers across the country and and our management team. And again they're really looking at is what's being put to you in your best interests as a small shareholder. Is it a good board, is it a fair remuneration plan for the management team if they're raising capital, have they treated you fairly? All those kinds of things. Sometimes it's gray, but most of the time a bit like flip Freer and greed. We try and make it black and white wherever we can.

Yeah, So there's the what we call the big proxy advisors, and they basically charge a fee and advise you big super funds or big fun matter which, etc. On how they should vote. If those folks aren't inclined to figure it out for themselves. It's a great service, but it's expensive. It's not something the average person can access. So that's really where the Shareholders Association comes in. We've got a couple of hundred volunteers all around the country that are individual shareholders themselves, and they'll dig into the annual report, they'll dig into the resolutions that are being put to shareholders at the AGM or the EGM and work out what is in your best interest as an individual shareholder. So from there, when you get your notice of meeting or the email or the letter in the mail that says hey, the AGM's coming up, it's time to vote, all you really need to do is write in Australian Shareholders Association in the proxy box and then the share Registry will get that information from you. We don't know who you are, it's all anonymous. We just get a big report at the end of the process where the share Registry says to us, this is how many votes you've been allocated or how many shareholders you've been allocated, and we go to the meeting. We'll vote accordingly, and also right up a report after the meeting as well and let everyone know how it went. And basically the way we're voting is figured out by our team of volunteers across the country and and our management team. And again they're really looking at is what's being put to you in your best interests as a small shareholder. Is it a good board, is it a fair remuneration plan for the management team if they're raising capital, have they treated you fairly? All those kinds of things. Sometimes it's gray, but most of the time a bit like flip Freer and greed. We try and make it black and white wherever we can.

So, oh, excellent, yes of the tagline. So just to me with the Shareholders Association, So, how many agms do you cover in a year?

So, oh, excellent, yes of the tagline. So just to me with the Shareholders Association, So, how many agms do you cover in a year?

Yeah, look, it's a good question. We'd love to cover every listed company, but unfortunately most of our work's done by volunteers. So most years we cover around two hundred to three hundred companies in some format. Typically it's the biggest companies that we prioritize because that's where you have the most shareholders in the most amount of money invested. And then once we run out of volunteers, that's when it starts to cut off. But Basically that top two hundred to three hundred companies most years is who will cover and will vote, and we'll write reports on and they're all free to access on our website. You don't even need to be a member to give us give us your vote if you're not voting yourself, and you can also access those reports on the website and have a look at it all for free to make sure you're happy with how we're planning to vote.

Yeah, look, it's a good question. We'd love to cover every listed company, but unfortunately most of our work's done by volunteers. So most years we cover around two hundred to three hundred companies in some format. Typically it's the biggest companies that we prioritize because that's where you have the most shareholders in the most amount of money invested. And then once we run out of volunteers, that's when it starts to cut off. But Basically that top two hundred to three hundred companies most years is who will cover and will vote, and we'll write reports on and they're all free to access on our website. You don't even need to be a member to give us give us your vote if you're not voting yourself, and you can also access those reports on the website and have a look at it all for free to make sure you're happy with how we're planning to vote.

If you're inclined, I mean, you gave us a plug. I'm giving you a plug because it is definitely a fantastic service. If you're a retail shareholder, it's worth, if nothing else, just going to the website and having a look. So what are some of the key themes you're seeing at agms? What do you expect to see this year? There's been plenty about remuneration obviously in the last couple of years, to expect that to continue. What else do you expect to see?

If you're inclined, I mean, you gave us a plug. I'm giving you a plug because it is definitely a fantastic service. If you're a retail shareholder, it's worth, if nothing else, just going to the website and having a look. So what are some of the key themes you're seeing at agms? What do you expect to see this year? There's been plenty about remuneration obviously in the last couple of years, to expect that to continue. What else do you expect to see?

Yeah, absolutely, I mean remuneration is always a big one. Every year there's a focus on remuneration, and there'll be a handful of companies that maybe have remuneration plans that aren't fair or aren't being allocated fairly in our view, we'll probably vote against some remuneration reports at those companies where we don't think things are being done in the right way. That's always the thing. The directors are the other big one. You know, Shareholders get to vote on directors, whether you want them elected or not or re elected, and we look at that really closely every year because the way that a board works, and you know the role of the board is really important to an independent or a regular shareholder. You want to make sure that those directors are looking after all of the stakeholders, not just the management team or maybe the major shareholders. So we look at the director elections really closely, and of course we'll be doing that again this year.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean remuneration is always a big one. Every year there's a focus on remuneration, and there'll be a handful of companies that maybe have remuneration plans that aren't fair or aren't being allocated fairly in our view, we'll probably vote against some remuneration reports at those companies where we don't think things are being done in the right way. That's always the thing. The directors are the other big one. You know, Shareholders get to vote on directors, whether you want them elected or not or re elected, and we look at that really closely every year because the way that a board works, and you know the role of the board is really important to an independent or a regular shareholder. You want to make sure that those directors are looking after all of the stakeholders, not just the management team or maybe the major shareholders. So we look at the director elections really closely, and of course we'll be doing that again this year.

Stay with me, Steve, and we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Stephen mab chair of the Australian Shareholders Association. Okay, what about the way that agms changed during COVID They all went online and at the time I was winking for a big corporate and the running round we had to do to try and ensure that we could get the AGM out to shareholders. Has that remained that way? It just seems there's a bit of shift back to the in person agms.

Stay with me, Steve, and we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Stephen mab chair of the Australian Shareholders Association. Okay, what about the way that agms changed during COVID They all went online and at the time I was winking for a big corporate and the running round we had to do to try and ensure that we could get the AGM out to shareholders. Has that remained that way? It just seems there's a bit of shift back to the in person agms.

Yeah, that's right. Everyone had to go online during COVID obviously, and I know ASIK relax the rules a little bit during that period so that companies could do that even if it wasn't in their constitutions. But we have seen a return to in person meetings, which is great. We love in person meetings. We want to make sure that childers can still turn up and talk to their boards and their management teams at a meeting at least once a year. But what we've also seen is the company is dropping some of the online part of it, either only holding it as a webcast where you can just view what's happening but not actually vote or question in real time, or maybe getting rid of the online portion altogether and only having the physical meeting. We don't think that's great. You know, there's a lot of agms happening at the moment, as you know, so even if you're inclined to go to every AGM in person, sometimes it's just not possible because they're on the same day at the same time in two locations. And secondly, there's a lot of people that don't want to travel all across the country to an AGM for one or two hours. So we love the hybrid meeting. That's where you have the online meeting of course, but you also have the ability to join the meeting online, vote, ask questions online as well, and participate wherever you are in Australia. ASA runs those kind of meetings every year where and it's small, not for profit. It's not that hard, it's not that expensive. So we're really pushing the companies hard to continue the hybrid meeting and make sure that they allow our shareholders to participate all across Australia wherever they are, either in person or at home on their computers.

Yeah, that's right. Everyone had to go online during COVID obviously, and I know ASIK relax the rules a little bit during that period so that companies could do that even if it wasn't in their constitutions. But we have seen a return to in person meetings, which is great. We love in person meetings. We want to make sure that childers can still turn up and talk to their boards and their management teams at a meeting at least once a year. But what we've also seen is the company is dropping some of the online part of it, either only holding it as a webcast where you can just view what's happening but not actually vote or question in real time, or maybe getting rid of the online portion altogether and only having the physical meeting. We don't think that's great. You know, there's a lot of agms happening at the moment, as you know, so even if you're inclined to go to every AGM in person, sometimes it's just not possible because they're on the same day at the same time in two locations. And secondly, there's a lot of people that don't want to travel all across the country to an AGM for one or two hours. So we love the hybrid meeting. That's where you have the online meeting of course, but you also have the ability to join the meeting online, vote, ask questions online as well, and participate wherever you are in Australia. ASA runs those kind of meetings every year where and it's small, not for profit. It's not that hard, it's not that expensive. So we're really pushing the companies hard to continue the hybrid meeting and make sure that they allow our shareholders to participate all across Australia wherever they are, either in person or at home on their computers.

Broadly, do you think Corporate Australia is doing a good job looking after all investors? And I suppose my emphasis on all means retail investors rather than just institutional investors.

Broadly, do you think Corporate Australia is doing a good job looking after all investors? And I suppose my emphasis on all means retail investors rather than just institutional investors.

Yeah. Look, we've got around two thousand listed companies in Australia, so of course with a number that big, you're going to have some folks that are doing it well and then others that maybe aren't. Obviously, the bigger the companies get, generally speaking, the better their governance gets, the better they communicate, the better that they treat their retail shareholders where we tend to see, you know, some of the biggest gaps. So when you've had a small company that's growing very quickly, maybe it's product or its service has got pretty hot and it's rapidly shot up the market cap, and then you'll start to get some more coverage and we'll maybe cover them for the first time, and there's often a bit of work to do there where they're boord or their ammuneration or the capital raising process hasn't been great. But we find most of the companies are pretty responsive when the ASA starts to engage with them. They at least are willing to listen and hear us out and where it makes sense for them to make those changes over time. So even with those kind of midd or smaller cap companies, I guess you'd say we do see progress when you start to engage with them. It's not always intentional that they're not treating their retail shareholders as well as they could. Sometimes it's just that they haven't really engaged them, and we understand it hard. If you've got a million shareholders like Telstra does, for example, you can't sit down and speak to them all individually, and that's where the Shareholders Association can come in as a bit of a voice and a centralized voice to represent that group with the company.

Yeah. Look, we've got around two thousand listed companies in Australia, so of course with a number that big, you're going to have some folks that are doing it well and then others that maybe aren't. Obviously, the bigger the companies get, generally speaking, the better their governance gets, the better they communicate, the better that they treat their retail shareholders where we tend to see, you know, some of the biggest gaps. So when you've had a small company that's growing very quickly, maybe it's product or its service has got pretty hot and it's rapidly shot up the market cap, and then you'll start to get some more coverage and we'll maybe cover them for the first time, and there's often a bit of work to do there where they're boord or their ammuneration or the capital raising process hasn't been great. But we find most of the companies are pretty responsive when the ASA starts to engage with them. They at least are willing to listen and hear us out and where it makes sense for them to make those changes over time. So even with those kind of midd or smaller cap companies, I guess you'd say we do see progress when you start to engage with them. It's not always intentional that they're not treating their retail shareholders as well as they could. Sometimes it's just that they haven't really engaged them, and we understand it hard. If you've got a million shareholders like Telstra does, for example, you can't sit down and speak to them all individually, and that's where the Shareholders Association can come in as a bit of a voice and a centralized voice to represent that group with the company.

So Telstra's the biggest one, I suppose and come off bank will is to be pretty big. I mean, which are the biggest agms in terms of people who use the Shareholders Association?

So Telstra's the biggest one, I suppose and come off bank will is to be pretty big. I mean, which are the biggest agms in terms of people who use the Shareholders Association?

Yeah, they are. I mean Telstra's got hundreds of thousands of retail shareholders, as do the big Bangs, as does BHP, as does Rio Tinto. You know, the bigger the company gets, generally, the more retail shareholders they have. And it is AGM season, so there's lots of those meetings going on at the moment. You know, if you go to one of those really big agms, you'll often see hundreds and hundreds of people in the audience. Most people don't ask questions, so that's where the ASA jumps in again and tries to ask questions at the meeting to get get the answers on record and represent retail shareholders that have both given us their proxy, but also other retail shareholders that maybe aren't either there or confident enough to get up and ask a question of the chair.

Yeah, they are. I mean Telstra's got hundreds of thousands of retail shareholders, as do the big Bangs, as does BHP, as does Rio Tinto. You know, the bigger the company gets, generally, the more retail shareholders they have. And it is AGM season, so there's lots of those meetings going on at the moment. You know, if you go to one of those really big agms, you'll often see hundreds and hundreds of people in the audience. Most people don't ask questions, so that's where the ASA jumps in again and tries to ask questions at the meeting to get get the answers on record and represent retail shareholders that have both given us their proxy, but also other retail shareholders that maybe aren't either there or confident enough to get up and ask a question of the chair.

Final question, Steven, which AGM has the best food afterwards?

Final question, Steven, which AGM has the best food afterwards?

That is a great question. I haven't been to them all. I would say Nick Scarle's is pretty good. I was small size, small to mid cap furniture retailer. They put on a fantastic spread. But I haven't been to every AGEM in the country, so it's not a not a fully quite qualified answer.

That is a great question. I haven't been to them all. I would say Nick Scarle's is pretty good. I was small size, small to mid cap furniture retailer. They put on a fantastic spread. But I haven't been to every AGEM in the country, so it's not a not a fully quite qualified answer.

Fair enough, Stephen, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Fair enough, Stephen, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

My pleasure. Thanks very much for having a Sean.

My pleasure. Thanks very much for having a Sean.

That was Stephen mab Chair of the Australian Shareholders Association. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business Views for people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.

That was Stephen mab Chair of the Australian Shareholders Association. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business Views for people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.