Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Almer. Vinyl Group is Australia's only ASX listed music company and it's a fascinating business. It's worth between one hundred and twenty and one hundred and forty million dollars and is on quite the acquisition spree. It now includes online record store vinyl dot Com, music credits business Jackster, music industry social network Vampa, vampr and web three collectibles platform Serenade. But it goes beyond music to publishing as well, for its ownership of The Brag Media, which is the local publisher of Rolling Stone and Variety and media industry website Mediaweek. Josh Simon's is the CEO of Vinyl Group. Josh, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Almer. Vinyl Group is Australia's only ASX listed music company and it's a fascinating business. It's worth between one hundred and twenty and one hundred and forty million dollars and is on quite the acquisition spree. It now includes online record store vinyl dot Com, music credits business Jackster, music industry social network Vampa, vampr and web three collectibles platform Serenade. But it goes beyond music to publishing as well, for its ownership of The Brag Media, which is the local publisher of Rolling Stone and Variety and media industry website Mediaweek. Josh Simon's is the CEO of Vinyl Group. Josh, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

What a hell of an introduction. I think we can probably wrap it up, can't we?

What a hell of an introduction. I think we can probably wrap it up, can't we?

Yeah? Yeah, I'm shore.

Yeah? Yeah, I'm shore.

Thanks Thanks for listening everyone, and tune in next week.

Thanks Thanks for listening everyone, and tune in next week.

How do you keep across all that?

How do you keep across all that?

You know? I spend much more time on the integrations than I do on the acquisitions, meaning and I didn't. I had to learn that the hard way, actually, because the Brag was the first acquisition that we did well. I suppose Jackster and Vamp coming together was actually quite a tricky deal that took about six months, and that's how I came into the business and became ultimately the guy who's running the thing. But then the brag Media was the first sort of third party acquisition that I did of any note and sort of sides, and you know, that was a hard deal. But then we spent much much more time on integrating it. And I realized that, and I've been told this by business mentors and you know, peers and stuff, that integrations were as important, if not far more than the deal itself, and I had, but I had to learn that firsthand, and so we take that side really seriously. What that means is, you have a lot of shared back office functions. You've got a lot of you know, shared sales resources that are working out interesting ways to bundle the various products across the multiple companies and sell far more compelling bundles for lack of a better world to our various partners. And it actually has quite a compounding effect because customers that might have spent fifty grand with us in the past now talking about you know, multiples on that because they're able to tap into all these different things that we can offer. So I really feel like our job is to make agencies life as easy as possible, and we can sort of say we can give you this, that and this, and then they go great, where do I say, that's kind of how we're doing this?

You know? I spend much more time on the integrations than I do on the acquisitions, meaning and I didn't. I had to learn that the hard way, actually, because the Brag was the first acquisition that we did well. I suppose Jackster and Vamp coming together was actually quite a tricky deal that took about six months, and that's how I came into the business and became ultimately the guy who's running the thing. But then the brag Media was the first sort of third party acquisition that I did of any note and sort of sides, and you know, that was a hard deal. But then we spent much much more time on integrating it. And I realized that, and I've been told this by business mentors and you know, peers and stuff, that integrations were as important, if not far more than the deal itself, and I had, but I had to learn that firsthand, and so we take that side really seriously. What that means is, you have a lot of shared back office functions. You've got a lot of you know, shared sales resources that are working out interesting ways to bundle the various products across the multiple companies and sell far more compelling bundles for lack of a better world to our various partners. And it actually has quite a compounding effect because customers that might have spent fifty grand with us in the past now talking about you know, multiples on that because they're able to tap into all these different things that we can offer. So I really feel like our job is to make agencies life as easy as possible, and we can sort of say we can give you this, that and this, and then they go great, where do I say, that's kind of how we're doing this?

Okay, So essentially the revenue model is on the broadly your a music business. The media week certainly pushes beyond that. But the idea though, is that via sponsorship or advertising, that's where your revenue base comes from. Across Vampire and Rolling Stone and vinylot Com, et cetera.

Okay, So essentially the revenue model is on the broadly your a music business. The media week certainly pushes beyond that. But the idea though, is that via sponsorship or advertising, that's where your revenue base comes from. Across Vampire and Rolling Stone and vinylot Com, et cetera.

I'd say more generally that most of the revenues really coming from advertising sources, and that would include some of the stuff you just mentioned. So that adds to sort of the name of the game, and it's the one that sort of business model that glues everything together across the various platforms. But as you pointed out, with a very specific music focus, there's a distinct lack of ad companies out there that just focus on the music industry, and so that's where we see the real opportunity.

I'd say more generally that most of the revenues really coming from advertising sources, and that would include some of the stuff you just mentioned. So that adds to sort of the name of the game, and it's the one that sort of business model that glues everything together across the various platforms. But as you pointed out, with a very specific music focus, there's a distinct lack of ad companies out there that just focus on the music industry, and so that's where we see the real opportunity.

Okay, and say you're selling an audience, which are music lovers broadly, and I mean one of the demographics of that audience.

Okay, and say you're selling an audience, which are music lovers broadly, and I mean one of the demographics of that audience.

I'd say that's half the audience. So the whole thing that we do, if you sort of go to our website and read any of the invested materials that we've put out over the last or of eighteen months, is we talk a lot about creators and consumers. And really, there is no music industry if you don't have a vibrant creator economy and you know a healthy number of fans who are willing to spend money on that. And so everything that we do is an attempt to connect point A with point B. That's been connecting consumers with creators. And so I would say our audience thusly is split, right, It's not fifty to fifty, but if anything, we've probably got more creators hanging out. Obviously, some creators are consumers as well. I mean most, in fact, all creators are consumers as well. So there's a high cross over in that market in that demo. But that's broadly speaking who we target.

I'd say that's half the audience. So the whole thing that we do, if you sort of go to our website and read any of the invested materials that we've put out over the last or of eighteen months, is we talk a lot about creators and consumers. And really, there is no music industry if you don't have a vibrant creator economy and you know a healthy number of fans who are willing to spend money on that. And so everything that we do is an attempt to connect point A with point B. That's been connecting consumers with creators. And so I would say our audience thusly is split, right, It's not fifty to fifty, but if anything, we've probably got more creators hanging out. Obviously, some creators are consumers as well. I mean most, in fact, all creators are consumers as well. So there's a high cross over in that market in that demo. But that's broadly speaking who we target.

Okay, so I'm kind of interested in you, Josh, because you come from the VMP group VAMPR side of the venness. Yeah, VAMPA I'm sorry, I've said that's along the whole time of Vampire. But you're a musician by trade, is that right?

Okay, so I'm kind of interested in you, Josh, because you come from the VMP group VAMPR side of the venness. Yeah, VAMPA I'm sorry, I've said that's along the whole time of Vampire. But you're a musician by trade, is that right?

Yeah? So I'm i'd say entrepreneur by trade. I've done a lot of different things. So I started. I dropped out of school when I was seventeen and started a film production company.

Yeah? So I'm i'd say entrepreneur by trade. I've done a lot of different things. So I started. I dropped out of school when I was seventeen and started a film production company.

We made as you Do.

We made as you Do.

As you Do, I hired forty people before I turned eighteen.

As you Do, I hired forty people before I turned eighteen.

Did they know? No? I know.

Did they know? No? I know.

That's actually very funny, you asked, because there was an article that came the first ever of article about me came out in the Leader, which is like a news court local addition, and it was the front page and it said the real deal and still only seventeen. And when they found out, Noel was very happy. But it was the last day of production on the film, so it didn't matter, right, But you know, I dropped out of school. Did that that burnt me out? I was too young to have done any of that, but I probably also there was a baptism by fire, so I kind of cut my teeth doing that. Sold out of that, and then I started managing bands. But I was really frustrated with the bands that I was managing. They weren't commercially minded or good enough for my personal preference. I wanted to see them, you know, appearing on TV and getting their songs in movies. And so I said, well, screw it, I'm going to start the band and I'm going to make the music that I want to hear out there. Because I'd always played music but as a hobby, not as a I'd never thought of it as a as a career. And it worked like I wrote some songs with some musician friends and we put them on Triple J on Earth, and I think three months later we were touring nationally and playing festivals and it was pretty wild. And then that sort of went on for about five or six years, and we tried replicating that success in England and it just wasn't working very well, not because we weren't talented for or we didn't have the work ethic or anything, but we just didn't know anyone in a different territory. And we spent five years building up the momentum in Australia and then thought we could do it in five minutes in a bigger country. And it's a mistake that a lot of musicians make. Actually it's great when it works, but when it doesn't work, it's very expensive mistake. That's why I started Vampa because I wanted to have a technological solution to fast tracking networking in the music industry, and that's what Vampa does. So my sort of stumble in my music career ended up being hopefully, you know, for the benefit of the entire industry.

That's actually very funny, you asked, because there was an article that came the first ever of article about me came out in the Leader, which is like a news court local addition, and it was the front page and it said the real deal and still only seventeen. And when they found out, Noel was very happy. But it was the last day of production on the film, so it didn't matter, right, But you know, I dropped out of school. Did that that burnt me out? I was too young to have done any of that, but I probably also there was a baptism by fire, so I kind of cut my teeth doing that. Sold out of that, and then I started managing bands. But I was really frustrated with the bands that I was managing. They weren't commercially minded or good enough for my personal preference. I wanted to see them, you know, appearing on TV and getting their songs in movies. And so I said, well, screw it, I'm going to start the band and I'm going to make the music that I want to hear out there. Because I'd always played music but as a hobby, not as a I'd never thought of it as a as a career. And it worked like I wrote some songs with some musician friends and we put them on Triple J on Earth, and I think three months later we were touring nationally and playing festivals and it was pretty wild. And then that sort of went on for about five or six years, and we tried replicating that success in England and it just wasn't working very well, not because we weren't talented for or we didn't have the work ethic or anything, but we just didn't know anyone in a different territory. And we spent five years building up the momentum in Australia and then thought we could do it in five minutes in a bigger country. And it's a mistake that a lot of musicians make. Actually it's great when it works, but when it doesn't work, it's very expensive mistake. That's why I started Vampa because I wanted to have a technological solution to fast tracking networking in the music industry, and that's what Vampa does. So my sort of stumble in my music career ended up being hopefully, you know, for the benefit of the entire industry.

Stay with me, Josh, we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Josh Simon, CEO of Vinyl Group. A lot of the stuff that a lot of your assets are technology based. Media Week that's the one that seems to just sort of jump out me as a little bit different. Why did you And that's one of your more recent acquisitions to Brag Media, So what's the story there.

Stay with me, Josh, we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to Josh Simon, CEO of Vinyl Group. A lot of the stuff that a lot of your assets are technology based. Media Week that's the one that seems to just sort of jump out me as a little bit different. Why did you And that's one of your more recent acquisitions to Brag Media, So what's the story there.

When we did a review of the Brag Media, we looked at like, where are the holes in the business and we saw trade, Like we own trade publications already, so we were already in that business, we just weren't doing a lot with it. So we had the Music Network and we have Variety Australia. And the other hole that we sort of saw was events, but I'll focus on trade. So we had two shot choices really like are we going to shut down the things that we're not necessarily calling core competencies or are we going to try and fix those holes and kind of turn it into a little profit engine that can fund our technology vehicles. And we did the latter, So we thought, no, we'll double down on some of these areas. We'll get them more efficient, will improve the margins. We might do some smaller acquisition, smaller acquisitions to bolster the capabilities in that respect. If we can make those divisions profitable in their own right and that can help fund the R and D and marketing efforts on the tech side, it's a win win win. So that was the reason why we went down that route.

When we did a review of the Brag Media, we looked at like, where are the holes in the business and we saw trade, Like we own trade publications already, so we were already in that business, we just weren't doing a lot with it. So we had the Music Network and we have Variety Australia. And the other hole that we sort of saw was events, but I'll focus on trade. So we had two shot choices really like are we going to shut down the things that we're not necessarily calling core competencies or are we going to try and fix those holes and kind of turn it into a little profit engine that can fund our technology vehicles. And we did the latter, So we thought, no, we'll double down on some of these areas. We'll get them more efficient, will improve the margins. We might do some smaller acquisition, smaller acquisitions to bolster the capabilities in that respect. If we can make those divisions profitable in their own right and that can help fund the R and D and marketing efforts on the tech side, it's a win win win. So that was the reason why we went down that route.

Okay, you can't talk about Viral Group without talking about ownership in one of your high profile and more prominent owners is Wise Tech Global founder Richard White. He recent weeks has stepped down as CEO of WIS relegations about his conduct. No need to go into that. How much involvement though, does he have with Final Group and does it actually matter? And I'm not asking you for it. I'm not asking you to tell me anything about Richard White. I'm just saying as a distraction.

Okay, you can't talk about Viral Group without talking about ownership in one of your high profile and more prominent owners is Wise Tech Global founder Richard White. He recent weeks has stepped down as CEO of WIS relegations about his conduct. No need to go into that. How much involvement though, does he have with Final Group and does it actually matter? And I'm not asking you for it. I'm not asking you to tell me anything about Richard White. I'm just saying as a distraction.

Look, I read the same articles that you would have read, and I've filtered a lot of questions that the reality is we don't comment generally on individual shareholders as a rule, and I would say second to that that you know, he's not a director. You know, he's a shareholder in the business, and as such, we've sort of given the same privacy respect that we would give any other shareholder.

Look, I read the same articles that you would have read, and I've filtered a lot of questions that the reality is we don't comment generally on individual shareholders as a rule, and I would say second to that that you know, he's not a director. You know, he's a shareholder in the business, and as such, we've sort of given the same privacy respect that we would give any other shareholder.

Yep, the next ten years or so, what's the what's the plan, what's the play?

Yep, the next ten years or so, what's the what's the plan, what's the play?

Get a hair transplant? That was that myself.

Get a hair transplant? That was that myself.

No, No, you could speaking for me too. It's fine.

No, No, you could speaking for me too. It's fine.

No, Look, we've got this. We've put out our broad sort of mission statement of what we want to achieve broadly across all of our businesses, and I think it helps clarify what the company does to an extent too. What we've said is we want to connect to a thousand of the world's leading brands with one hundred million music creators and a billion fans, and that would be you know, market saturation globally of sort of seventy percent broadly of those fields that we sort of play in. So that's our plan. If we can do that in ten years time, will be a pretty bloody big company.

No, Look, we've got this. We've put out our broad sort of mission statement of what we want to achieve broadly across all of our businesses, and I think it helps clarify what the company does to an extent too. What we've said is we want to connect to a thousand of the world's leading brands with one hundred million music creators and a billion fans, and that would be you know, market saturation globally of sort of seventy percent broadly of those fields that we sort of play in. So that's our plan. If we can do that in ten years time, will be a pretty bloody big company.

Yeah, what about being a listed company? Is that a good or a bad thing?

Yeah, what about being a listed company? Is that a good or a bad thing?

Look, I think in the environment the last couple of years where it's been really tough for tech companies in particular to raise private capital because it happened to me even you know, one day you were valued at this and then a year later in twenty twenty two, you were re rated down to a quarter of the previous evaluation, and people having to do downrounds, et cetera. Being public right now is good because it's a different type of fundraise. Obviously you've got when you hit a certain scale and we're sort of approaching that size now, you have access to different kinds of funds that have a requirement to put money into vehicles, and so it's just it's it's probably, of course it's more liquid it's public, but it seems like there's more money going around than what you necessarily have access to in the private markets, at least right now. And it's also a great motivator to get up every day and do your best because the market's sort of judging you based on your performance, and it's a real fun part of the job, I suppose.

Look, I think in the environment the last couple of years where it's been really tough for tech companies in particular to raise private capital because it happened to me even you know, one day you were valued at this and then a year later in twenty twenty two, you were re rated down to a quarter of the previous evaluation, and people having to do downrounds, et cetera. Being public right now is good because it's a different type of fundraise. Obviously you've got when you hit a certain scale and we're sort of approaching that size now, you have access to different kinds of funds that have a requirement to put money into vehicles, and so it's just it's it's probably, of course it's more liquid it's public, but it seems like there's more money going around than what you necessarily have access to in the private markets, at least right now. And it's also a great motivator to get up every day and do your best because the market's sort of judging you based on your performance, and it's a real fun part of the job, I suppose.

Yeah, I mean your share price is doubled in the last year or so. So I mean that you take that when you can, because obviously when you have big shareholders jumping in and wanting to be part of it, it helps. So i'd Josh, I'd jump all over that and just say, have you noticed that share price is double in the last year. I think they's had a CEO supposed to talk, isn't he.

Yeah, I mean your share price is doubled in the last year or so. So I mean that you take that when you can, because obviously when you have big shareholders jumping in and wanting to be part of it, it helps. So i'd Josh, I'd jump all over that and just say, have you noticed that share price is double in the last year. I think they's had a CEO supposed to talk, isn't he.

Yeah, I mean, I'm probably being me being a bit humble, But certainly when I sold my company, when we first started talking to Jackson about taking over Vampa, one of the things that was appealing to me was with respect to the former management team, the share price wasn't doing very well, was stuck around two cents, and I thought, you know what, there's a real opportunity here. If I can come in and feel like I can add value and run this and bring together these vehicles. I've done it before in America, I can probably do it again here, and I can grow that share price relatively quickly. And like you said, a year and a half later, or really two years since I started having those conversations, it's you know, it's six x today where that was, So it's pretty impressive.

Yeah, I mean, I'm probably being me being a bit humble, But certainly when I sold my company, when we first started talking to Jackson about taking over Vampa, one of the things that was appealing to me was with respect to the former management team, the share price wasn't doing very well, was stuck around two cents, and I thought, you know what, there's a real opportunity here. If I can come in and feel like I can add value and run this and bring together these vehicles. I've done it before in America, I can probably do it again here, and I can grow that share price relatively quickly. And like you said, a year and a half later, or really two years since I started having those conversations, it's you know, it's six x today where that was, So it's pretty impressive.

Good on you, Josh, Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. Thank you as Josh Steimon's CEO of Vinyl Group. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode our Fear and Greed business news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Seane Elmer. Enjoy your day.

Good on you, Josh, Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. Thank you as Josh Steimon's CEO of Vinyl Group. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode our Fear and Greed business news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Seane Elmer. Enjoy your day.