Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure an Ailma. Today's interview is a little different. This is about business class flights, it's about luxury hotels. It's about building up frequent fly points using your business spending to do it. Mark Dawes is the chief executive officer of Reward Pay and joins me in the studio this morning. Mark, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure an Ailma. Today's interview is a little different. This is about business class flights, it's about luxury hotels. It's about building up frequent fly points using your business spending to do it. Mark Dawes is the chief executive officer of Reward Pay and joins me in the studio this morning. Mark, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

Thanks for having me give me the elevator pitch. Okay, the elevator pitch. On Reward Pay is that what we know is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of small businesses that, when faced with having to make a payment to whatever supply for whatever goods, typically want to be able to use a credit card. And because of the merchant fee being quite expensive for the supplier, you know, if you look at a typical merchant fee that's say two percent, you've got one hundred thousand dollars invoice, that's a two thousand dollars charge that's literally going to come off the bottom line in terms of the profitability for that supplier. And what we worked out was that you know, sure there's no value on the merchant side but on the card member side, there's loads of value and the card members really excited to be able to use their credit card because they have the opportunity to get up to fifty five days interest free credit which they can use to fund their business. They've also got the ability to earn credit card reward points and often for these businesses, when they're earning their credit card reward points, the business is helping them to earn them, but they're redeeming those points for personal benefit. Yeah, so that in a nutshell is what we do.

Thanks for having me give me the elevator pitch. Okay, the elevator pitch. On Reward Pay is that what we know is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of small businesses that, when faced with having to make a payment to whatever supply for whatever goods, typically want to be able to use a credit card. And because of the merchant fee being quite expensive for the supplier, you know, if you look at a typical merchant fee that's say two percent, you've got one hundred thousand dollars invoice, that's a two thousand dollars charge that's literally going to come off the bottom line in terms of the profitability for that supplier. And what we worked out was that you know, sure there's no value on the merchant side but on the card member side, there's loads of value and the card members really excited to be able to use their credit card because they have the opportunity to get up to fifty five days interest free credit which they can use to fund their business. They've also got the ability to earn credit card reward points and often for these businesses, when they're earning their credit card reward points, the business is helping them to earn them, but they're redeeming those points for personal benefit. Yeah, so that in a nutshell is what we do.

So just explain this. So I've got an MX card, yep, how does reward pay fit into the MS card?

So just explain this. So I've got an MX card, yep, how does reward pay fit into the MS card?

Yeah? So we are a merchant of American Express, right, and so what happens is that customer comes to us and we've got a portal that we built, and the customer will first of all, go on go through the registration process, enter their card into our digital wallet, and then they'll go about setting up the various pays that they want to make a payment to. And so you'll set up a payee to either make a payment to a bank account or to a b pay piller code. And so what happens is that they come on. And let's just say that you've got an invoice that's for I don't know, fifty thousand dollars. You then go into our platform, you process that payment, you hit pay, and essentially what then happens is that you're making a payment to reward pay. Because we're the merchant, we receive the fund's next business day from American Express, and then at about eleven thirty that next business day, we push those funds out to whatever the nominated bank account is or to whatever be pay biller code.

Yeah? So we are a merchant of American Express, right, and so what happens is that customer comes to us and we've got a portal that we built, and the customer will first of all, go on go through the registration process, enter their card into our digital wallet, and then they'll go about setting up the various pays that they want to make a payment to. And so you'll set up a payee to either make a payment to a bank account or to a b pay piller code. And so what happens is that they come on. And let's just say that you've got an invoice that's for I don't know, fifty thousand dollars. You then go into our platform, you process that payment, you hit pay, and essentially what then happens is that you're making a payment to reward pay. Because we're the merchant, we receive the fund's next business day from American Express, and then at about eleven thirty that next business day, we push those funds out to whatever the nominated bank account is or to whatever be pay biller code.

So what's the advantage to me in doing that and going through reward pay as opposed to just paying with my AMEX.

So what's the advantage to me in doing that and going through reward pay as opposed to just paying with my AMEX.

Well, a lot of the time with B to B payments, they just won't accept a credit card, so there's no option for you to use a credit card to be able to do that. And with reward pay, what we're doing is putting the power back in the card holder's hands, right. So, and it's what we refer to as a bor initiated payment, so a push payment as opposed to a pull payment where the merchant's you know, and control of the payment. They're saying, right, I'll process this payment, now you give me your card details and I'll pull the money from your card. So what's happening under our model is that the card members under control, and it's the card member who's to said what they want to pay and when they want to pay. And by virtue of being in control, they're also levied with the cost of being able to process that payment as well. Right, and in return for that cost, I eat the reward pay fee. They're getting their benefits as I mentioned earlier, So they're getting the up to fifty five days interest free credit, they're getting their membership reward points in the case of American Express, and they can also have the opportunity to elect to earn Corners points as well in addition to the credit card points.

Well, a lot of the time with B to B payments, they just won't accept a credit card, so there's no option for you to use a credit card to be able to do that. And with reward pay, what we're doing is putting the power back in the card holder's hands, right. So, and it's what we refer to as a bor initiated payment, so a push payment as opposed to a pull payment where the merchant's you know, and control of the payment. They're saying, right, I'll process this payment, now you give me your card details and I'll pull the money from your card. So what's happening under our model is that the card members under control, and it's the card member who's to said what they want to pay and when they want to pay. And by virtue of being in control, they're also levied with the cost of being able to process that payment as well. Right, and in return for that cost, I eat the reward pay fee. They're getting their benefits as I mentioned earlier, So they're getting the up to fifty five days interest free credit, they're getting their membership reward points in the case of American Express, and they can also have the opportunity to elect to earn Corners points as well in addition to the credit card points.

Okay, how does reward pay make money?

Okay, how does reward pay make money?

So we essentially clip the ticket between American Express and what our customers pay. So, you know, American Express love what we do because we're a natural extension of sort of growing their network right in a non traditional way. We're taking them to places that they can't get to on their own. So by virtue of that, they've said, Okay, well, we're actually happy to give you a wholesale rate to help us to get that coverage, and you know, because you've got that wholesale rate, we leave a little bit of money, only a little bit of money for reward pay to then go on to make our living.

So we essentially clip the ticket between American Express and what our customers pay. So, you know, American Express love what we do because we're a natural extension of sort of growing their network right in a non traditional way. We're taking them to places that they can't get to on their own. So by virtue of that, they've said, Okay, well, we're actually happy to give you a wholesale rate to help us to get that coverage, and you know, because you've got that wholesale rate, we leave a little bit of money, only a little bit of money for reward pay to then go on to make our living.

I can, so who's using you at the moment.

I can, so who's using you at the moment.

So typically our customers are small business customers, small to medium enterprises. So the people that would use would pay would typically be owner operated businesses where you might have anywhere from one to say three owners in the business.

So typically our customers are small business customers, small to medium enterprises. So the people that would use would pay would typically be owner operated businesses where you might have anywhere from one to say three owners in the business.

Sound like fear and Green here, you know, I'll show.

Sound like fear and Green here, you know, I'll show.

You how to sign up after the show. So yeah, it's typically sort of one to three owners. They really try to put through whatever business spend they can so that they can accumulate as many points as they can, and some businesses choose to use those points for business travel as their staff fly around the country or do whatever they do. Some will elect to buy a bottle of wine to give to an employee that's done a good job. Others will just get into this mode of saying, you know what, I love taking the family to Italy every year, and there's ten of us, so you know, I need to pump through whatever I can so that I can actually fly the ten of us business class to Italy Christmas.

You how to sign up after the show. So yeah, it's typically sort of one to three owners. They really try to put through whatever business spend they can so that they can accumulate as many points as they can, and some businesses choose to use those points for business travel as their staff fly around the country or do whatever they do. Some will elect to buy a bottle of wine to give to an employee that's done a good job. Others will just get into this mode of saying, you know what, I love taking the family to Italy every year, and there's ten of us, so you know, I need to pump through whatever I can so that I can actually fly the ten of us business class to Italy Christmas.

I'm liking it more and more. What about stuff like government payments, tax payments, baths, that type of thing.

I'm liking it more and more. What about stuff like government payments, tax payments, baths, that type of thing.

Yeah, So the good thing with reward pay is that we can pay pretty much any business expense that you could imagine. So if you think about the ubiquitous expenses that business have, you know, paying your bads right once a quarter, you know, is absolutely something that people pay through award pay. If you think about utilities, everyone's got, you know, if you're in manufacturing, you've got you know, gas and electricity bills that you've got to pay. You've got business insurances that you have to pay. You know, any business expense that you might have, you know, you can pretty much pump through award pay.

Yeah, So the good thing with reward pay is that we can pay pretty much any business expense that you could imagine. So if you think about the ubiquitous expenses that business have, you know, paying your bads right once a quarter, you know, is absolutely something that people pay through award pay. If you think about utilities, everyone's got, you know, if you're in manufacturing, you've got you know, gas and electricity bills that you've got to pay. You've got business insurances that you have to pay. You know, any business expense that you might have, you know, you can pretty much pump through award pay.

Mark, stay with me and we'll be back in the moment. My guest this morning is Mark Dawes, CEO of Reward Pay. If you're in Green signs up to reward pay for example, is the primary benefit the loyalty factor.

Mark, stay with me and we'll be back in the moment. My guest this morning is Mark Dawes, CEO of Reward Pay. If you're in Green signs up to reward pay for example, is the primary benefit the loyalty factor.

I think it comes down to the industry. So you know, if you look at an industry like construction, where you have progress payments, you know, for that sort of business, the cash flow benefit is really crucial to their business. And you've got to remember that, you know, on some cards you're getting up to fifty five days, and some of these businesses are really savvy at lining up the card cycle cut to when they're actually going to put an invoice on the card. So, as I saying, construction, that's really crucial. But for all businesses, yes, the loyalty component, you know, is an absolutely huge hook, you know, for as I say, all businesses. And what we also find is that the loyalty value is is such a magnitude that not only are people electing to or not electing, but they're getting their credit card reward points, but they're also electing to earn Corness points on top. Right, So you know, we have the ability for you to obviously pay the fee to process the transaction, get your credit card reward points, but then on top of that you can say, well, yes, I'd like to earn Conness points with that, and we actually give the customers a choice as to how many points they want to earn, so you can earn say a quarter of a point per dollar all the way through to two points per dollar.

I think it comes down to the industry. So you know, if you look at an industry like construction, where you have progress payments, you know, for that sort of business, the cash flow benefit is really crucial to their business. And you've got to remember that, you know, on some cards you're getting up to fifty five days, and some of these businesses are really savvy at lining up the card cycle cut to when they're actually going to put an invoice on the card. So, as I saying, construction, that's really crucial. But for all businesses, yes, the loyalty component, you know, is an absolutely huge hook, you know, for as I say, all businesses. And what we also find is that the loyalty value is is such a magnitude that not only are people electing to or not electing, but they're getting their credit card reward points, but they're also electing to earn Corness points on top. Right, So you know, we have the ability for you to obviously pay the fee to process the transaction, get your credit card reward points, but then on top of that you can say, well, yes, I'd like to earn Conness points with that, and we actually give the customers a choice as to how many points they want to earn, so you can earn say a quarter of a point per dollar all the way through to two points per dollar.

And is that a relationship that you or MX have with quantas.

And is that a relationship that you or MX have with quantas.

Yeah, So we've got a direct relationship with Quantas, which we've had for several years now, and it's something that a large population of our customers really enjoy just because of the value that they can derive by earning those points.

Yeah, So we've got a direct relationship with Quantas, which we've had for several years now, and it's something that a large population of our customers really enjoy just because of the value that they can derive by earning those points.

Okay, I want to go on about the points in member, but this is something that you mentioned a moment ago around and come back to. So in a sense, one of the big benefits, it's a cash flow benefit to small business, because cash flow seems to be the biggest issue of all.

Okay, I want to go on about the points in member, but this is something that you mentioned a moment ago around and come back to. So in a sense, one of the big benefits, it's a cash flow benefit to small business, because cash flow seems to be the biggest issue of all.

Yeah, well it's interest free cash flow, right.

Yeah, well it's interest free cash flow, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, So you're not going to an army draft.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, So you're not going to an army draft.

Yeah, that's just working it out.

Yeah, that's just working it out.

Okay, So what sort of reward I mean, you mentioned Quantus, but in the intro there was a bunch of different awards there. What sort of rewards of people taking up?

Okay, So what sort of reward I mean, you mentioned Quantus, but in the intro there was a bunch of different awards there. What sort of rewards of people taking up?

Yeah, you know what, I can answer that question in so many different ways.

Yeah, you know what, I can answer that question in so many different ways.

Okay, I'll ask you again, what sort of awards should I take up? Personally?

Okay, I'll ask you again, what sort of awards should I take up? Personally?

Well, what we know is that the redemption for business travel, particularly for business class travel and first class travel from a getting great value for your points is a really good way to redeem. So to give you an example, you know, one dollar is roughly worth one point, right, whether it be for Quantus or for your credit card. And what we know is that it costs about three hundred and fifty thousand points for a return trip to Europe for argument's sake. Now, if you are to come and do that on the reward pay platform, the cost of acquiring that three hundred and fifty thousand points is going to be about six and a half thousand dollars. And as I say, that will get your return flight to Europe. Now, if you were to go and pay for that trip, that's about twelve to fifteen thousand dollars of cash if you're buying that. So you know, immediately you can see that you've kind of got a trip for half the cost.

Well, what we know is that the redemption for business travel, particularly for business class travel and first class travel from a getting great value for your points is a really good way to redeem. So to give you an example, you know, one dollar is roughly worth one point, right, whether it be for Quantus or for your credit card. And what we know is that it costs about three hundred and fifty thousand points for a return trip to Europe for argument's sake. Now, if you are to come and do that on the reward pay platform, the cost of acquiring that three hundred and fifty thousand points is going to be about six and a half thousand dollars. And as I say, that will get your return flight to Europe. Now, if you were to go and pay for that trip, that's about twelve to fifteen thousand dollars of cash if you're buying that. So you know, immediately you can see that you've kind of got a trip for half the cost.

Yeah, okay, And is it mostly travel that people redeem it for?

Yeah, okay, And is it mostly travel that people redeem it for?

You know what, we have people that redeem for all sorts of crazy things. You know, in some cases you can call up your card issuer and they will convert your points into cash. So we've had people that we've known have called up American Express and they've said, look, I'm at the Ferrari dealership and I just want to know how many points I need to convert to get you know, whatever Ferrari they're looking at. We had a pharmacist who called up American Express and said, look, I'm just doing some renovations at my house. I want to get a pool in the back garden. So you know what have I got to convert to pay the guy that's building the pool. So you know, there's just such a huge range. You know, you can, as I say, redeem for really pretty much anything that's got a cash value. You can redeem for flights, you can redeem for whatever product that may be in whatever particular store, for whatever credit card you've got. You know, it's really unlimited in terms of what the redemptions are.

You know what, we have people that redeem for all sorts of crazy things. You know, in some cases you can call up your card issuer and they will convert your points into cash. So we've had people that we've known have called up American Express and they've said, look, I'm at the Ferrari dealership and I just want to know how many points I need to convert to get you know, whatever Ferrari they're looking at. We had a pharmacist who called up American Express and said, look, I'm just doing some renovations at my house. I want to get a pool in the back garden. So you know what have I got to convert to pay the guy that's building the pool. So you know, there's just such a huge range. You know, you can, as I say, redeem for really pretty much anything that's got a cash value. You can redeem for flights, you can redeem for whatever product that may be in whatever particular store, for whatever credit card you've got. You know, it's really unlimited in terms of what the redemptions are.

Presumably make you get a pretty good view of how the SME sector is traveling then, because you are seeing what they're doing, where they're spending. How is it traveling? I'm just sort of so moving away kind of from reward pay Ye, the SME sector itself, how do you think it's traveling?

Presumably make you get a pretty good view of how the SME sector is traveling then, because you are seeing what they're doing, where they're spending. How is it traveling? I'm just sort of so moving away kind of from reward pay Ye, the SME sector itself, how do you think it's traveling?

Or you're right because we are right at the point end in terms of people processing big business payments. You know, we can literally see on like an hour by hour basis, you know, and maybe that's a bit extreme, but certainly on a day by day basis. What's happening in the economy with business, and the first thing that we see is just you know, the downturn in terms of traditional spend. So if I go, you know, to an industry like restaurants, you know, we can see when the volume from restaurants comes off, you know, as I say, literally on a day by day or a week by week basis. So that's the first indicator that we get. Second indicator that we get is that the card issuers start to cut the limits. So you might have a customer that pumps through fifty thousand bucks a week and he gets up to thirty K, and you know, after thirty K, the card starts to decline. And that's because the card issuers, who I think, have you got some crystal ball that can see well into the future, decide that their risk is getting too high and so they know the way to manage that is they cut their card limits. Yeah. So to answer your question, at the moment, business is actually holding up really well. You know, we're not seeing any of that, you know, despite a lot of the talk in the press at the moment that the economy is you know, perhaps a little bit jittery. I've got to say, you know, in terms of B to B, we don't see that. And maybe it is that we don't see it because it's retail that really gets hit, you know, more so good it.

Or you're right because we are right at the point end in terms of people processing big business payments. You know, we can literally see on like an hour by hour basis, you know, and maybe that's a bit extreme, but certainly on a day by day basis. What's happening in the economy with business, and the first thing that we see is just you know, the downturn in terms of traditional spend. So if I go, you know, to an industry like restaurants, you know, we can see when the volume from restaurants comes off, you know, as I say, literally on a day by day or a week by week basis. So that's the first indicator that we get. Second indicator that we get is that the card issuers start to cut the limits. So you might have a customer that pumps through fifty thousand bucks a week and he gets up to thirty K, and you know, after thirty K, the card starts to decline. And that's because the card issuers, who I think, have you got some crystal ball that can see well into the future, decide that their risk is getting too high and so they know the way to manage that is they cut their card limits. Yeah. So to answer your question, at the moment, business is actually holding up really well. You know, we're not seeing any of that, you know, despite a lot of the talk in the press at the moment that the economy is you know, perhaps a little bit jittery. I've got to say, you know, in terms of B to B, we don't see that. And maybe it is that we don't see it because it's retail that really gets hit, you know, more so good it.

Flows through to the B to B the I think, yeah, But.

Flows through to the B to B the I think, yeah, But.

At the moment, I can tell you it's it's looking pretty solid.

At the moment, I can tell you it's it's looking pretty solid.

Fantastic, Mike, Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Fantastic, Mike, Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me.

That was Mark Doors, CEO of Reward Pay. This is a Fear and Greed business interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed. Daily business news but people who make their own decisions. I'm John Elma. Enjoy your day.

That was Mark Doors, CEO of Reward Pay. This is a Fear and Greed business interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed. Daily business news but people who make their own decisions. I'm John Elma. Enjoy your day.