Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Ailmam. We know the importance of getting culture right for a business, and particularly at a senior level. If leaders aren't able to come together as a team, then the company just doesn't perform as well as it should. So what do you do if it's not working? How do you reset it? And what needs to change? My guests today have a solution. It's not found in the boardroom either. Authentic Leaders Group is a terrific supporter of this podcast. Jack Revolt is the co founder of Authentic Leaders Group and my guest this morning in the studio. Jack, Welcome to Fear and Greed. Hello Sewan, how are you very well? We're also joined by your colleague, psychologist Kate Anderson. Kate, good morning, morning, Sean.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Ailmam. We know the importance of getting culture right for a business, and particularly at a senior level. If leaders aren't able to come together as a team, then the company just doesn't perform as well as it should. So what do you do if it's not working? How do you reset it? And what needs to change? My guests today have a solution. It's not found in the boardroom either. Authentic Leaders Group is a terrific supporter of this podcast. Jack Revolt is the co founder of Authentic Leaders Group and my guest this morning in the studio. Jack, Welcome to Fear and Greed. Hello Sewan, how are you very well? We're also joined by your colleague, psychologist Kate Anderson. Kate, good morning, morning, Sean.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

So Jack, I'll start with you. You'd be familiar to many listeners because of your incredible AFL career. Paint the picture for me, the team's working, what's it feel like?

So Jack, I'll start with you. You'd be familiar to many listeners because of your incredible AFL career. Paint the picture for me, the team's working, what's it feel like?

It's incredible. So I'm very lucky in my previous role as an AFL footballer that I've experienced really good culture and really probably culture that wasn't succeeding and when something is absolutely humming and everyone feels a part of it, everyone feels like it belongs. It is an incredible superpower. And to put that into perspective, you walk into whether that be a pitch or whether for my case, it was walking into a game of footy, over three hundred and forty seven of them, and the majority in the back end of my career is when I walked in with this sense of belonging and knowing that you were there to succeed and what winning looked like, but also what just the journey of success and learning to put a good culture together look like. And it is a fascinating feeling and it is a real superpower.

It's incredible. So I'm very lucky in my previous role as an AFL footballer that I've experienced really good culture and really probably culture that wasn't succeeding and when something is absolutely humming and everyone feels a part of it, everyone feels like it belongs. It is an incredible superpower. And to put that into perspective, you walk into whether that be a pitch or whether for my case, it was walking into a game of footy, over three hundred and forty seven of them, and the majority in the back end of my career is when I walked in with this sense of belonging and knowing that you were there to succeed and what winning looked like, but also what just the journey of success and learning to put a good culture together look like. And it is a fascinating feeling and it is a real superpower.

It seems so much more than just the technical aspect of being able to play the game like it's much bigger than that.

It seems so much more than just the technical aspect of being able to play the game like it's much bigger than that.

Yeah, it is. There's so many different aspects that come with the mental side of things, but footy is a game that you need so much to go right as sort of businesses as well. And I've never worked a day in business. I worked seveneen years. I got drafted as a seven and a half year old. I worked at sports Co and east Lands as my only other job. So I came out of AFL at the end of twenty twenty three and was sort of opened my eyes to what the outside world looks like or outside of football. And there's so many transitional skills that I've got and I've learned in sports people have that aren't prevalent in the rest of the world or in what I would call sort of the business industry. So it's just it's bringing that so like, it's an incredible feeling to bear part of a team, and I've been lucky enough to be part of a team and a really successful team if you just look at the result of premierships. But the fondest memories for me from a football and a sporting career come from the actual journey. And that's where that is where the real culture is built in any organization. It's the that's the trip there.

Yeah, it is. There's so many different aspects that come with the mental side of things, but footy is a game that you need so much to go right as sort of businesses as well. And I've never worked a day in business. I worked seveneen years. I got drafted as a seven and a half year old. I worked at sports Co and east Lands as my only other job. So I came out of AFL at the end of twenty twenty three and was sort of opened my eyes to what the outside world looks like or outside of football. And there's so many transitional skills that I've got and I've learned in sports people have that aren't prevalent in the rest of the world or in what I would call sort of the business industry. So it's just it's bringing that so like, it's an incredible feeling to bear part of a team, and I've been lucky enough to be part of a team and a really successful team if you just look at the result of premierships. But the fondest memories for me from a football and a sporting career come from the actual journey. And that's where that is where the real culture is built in any organization. It's the that's the trip there.

Okay, Jack, just before we get to UK, Jack, was there one moment that you walked into a change room a training session and you thought, Ah, this is what it's supposed to be.

Okay, Jack, just before we get to UK, Jack, was there one moment that you walked into a change room a training session and you thought, Ah, this is what it's supposed to be.

Like, Oh God, that's a really great question. I think I think if I was to pinpoint anything that would encapsulate why Richmond's culture was elite and why it was really different and unique to us, which is an incredible important piece of any culture, is that it has to be unique and retrofit for the business. It is is that on the eve of the two thousand and seventeen Grand Final, and Richmond was in a thirty seven year premiership drought and had been a relatively unsuccessful club on and off the field, we actually went down into the to the old change rooms at tiger Land, sort of derelict a little bit, and in there sat fifty bongo drums. Now you think, leading into the biggest game in arguably Richmond's history, and the last session that the twenty two plus the staff plus the players that weren't playing did was they sat around and played the African bongo drums to simulate the fact that everyone has a drum in life, and everyone has a drum in afl and you can beat the drum really bloody loud and make it about you, or you can learn to play it in harmony. And that was our sort of symbolic gesture of what we wanted to do when we went out and we're lucky enough to beat Adelaide in twenty seventeen, so if I look at that and anyone asked me to tell one story about why Richmond's culture was great, that is always one that comes to front of mine.

Like, Oh God, that's a really great question. I think I think if I was to pinpoint anything that would encapsulate why Richmond's culture was elite and why it was really different and unique to us, which is an incredible important piece of any culture, is that it has to be unique and retrofit for the business. It is is that on the eve of the two thousand and seventeen Grand Final, and Richmond was in a thirty seven year premiership drought and had been a relatively unsuccessful club on and off the field, we actually went down into the to the old change rooms at tiger Land, sort of derelict a little bit, and in there sat fifty bongo drums. Now you think, leading into the biggest game in arguably Richmond's history, and the last session that the twenty two plus the staff plus the players that weren't playing did was they sat around and played the African bongo drums to simulate the fact that everyone has a drum in life, and everyone has a drum in afl and you can beat the drum really bloody loud and make it about you, or you can learn to play it in harmony. And that was our sort of symbolic gesture of what we wanted to do when we went out and we're lucky enough to beat Adelaide in twenty seventeen, so if I look at that and anyone asked me to tell one story about why Richmond's culture was great, that is always one that comes to front of mine.

Kate, your career is very different. It's taking you all over the place. You've been a psychologist working in prisons right through to working with massive global companies. I mean, I want to hear about your experience, But what drives you to do that sort of work? I think it must take a lot from you, to be honest.

Kate, your career is very different. It's taking you all over the place. You've been a psychologist working in prisons right through to working with massive global companies. I mean, I want to hear about your experience, But what drives you to do that sort of work? I think it must take a lot from you, to be honest.

It does take a lot, but it also gives a lot. And I think that's the part that for me really drives me. And I think I see a lot of teams, so we work with a lot of teams now, but working in prisons, you're still working with a lot of people who are human beings. And I think a lot of the work that we do, and a lot of the work that I do, is about how do we build humans to be better versions of themselves or connect in ways that enable people to be their best? So how do you perform? How do you find success? How do you show up in a way for your people as a leader, how do you lead in a way that enables you to get the best from your people, But also, we spend so much time at work. How do we just enjoy that a little bit more? How do we play, how do we connect? How do we talk to each other? So in every single role that I've had, beat in prisons, beating corporates, beating consulting, it's really about how do we get people to be the best versions of themselves? And for me personally, I get such a buzz out of that.

It does take a lot, but it also gives a lot. And I think that's the part that for me really drives me. And I think I see a lot of teams, so we work with a lot of teams now, but working in prisons, you're still working with a lot of people who are human beings. And I think a lot of the work that we do, and a lot of the work that I do, is about how do we build humans to be better versions of themselves or connect in ways that enable people to be their best? So how do you perform? How do you find success? How do you show up in a way for your people as a leader, how do you lead in a way that enables you to get the best from your people, But also, we spend so much time at work. How do we just enjoy that a little bit more? How do we play, how do we connect? How do we talk to each other? So in every single role that I've had, beat in prisons, beating corporates, beating consulting, it's really about how do we get people to be the best versions of themselves? And for me personally, I get such a buzz out of that.

Are there similarities across all those areas, like more.

Are there similarities across all those areas, like more.

Than you could possibly imagine? You know, people are people are people, And when it's working, it's working, and when it's not working, it's not working. And there's some really fundamentals around that. And you asked Jack a really great question before, which was, you know, aside from the technical bit of making a football team work, what else is it? And that's true in any organization. We hire people for their technical skills, We bring people in because they can do the job, but there's always something more that makes it great. And that's true in prisons as well.

Than you could possibly imagine? You know, people are people are people, And when it's working, it's working, and when it's not working, it's not working. And there's some really fundamentals around that. And you asked Jack a really great question before, which was, you know, aside from the technical bit of making a football team work, what else is it? And that's true in any organization. We hire people for their technical skills, We bring people in because they can do the job, but there's always something more that makes it great. And that's true in prisons as well.

Fantastic, Look, I want to get further into this, but we'll take a quick break. We'll be back in a moment. I'm speaking this morning to Jack Revolt and Kate Anderson from Authentic leaders Group. Your leadership programs are a little different to others out there. You take groups to you know, rugged paths of Tasmania Northern Territory, trying to get teams to connect men coming to what we're talking about before the break. They're not technical skills, they're social skills almost. Why is it so important to take them outside the workplace environment?

Fantastic, Look, I want to get further into this, but we'll take a quick break. We'll be back in a moment. I'm speaking this morning to Jack Revolt and Kate Anderson from Authentic leaders Group. Your leadership programs are a little different to others out there. You take groups to you know, rugged paths of Tasmania Northern Territory, trying to get teams to connect men coming to what we're talking about before the break. They're not technical skills, they're social skills almost. Why is it so important to take them outside the workplace environment?

Look, I think the big thing for us is that what we provide in it seems very fundamental is environment and time. Like you can have the same experience in a boardroom and be delivered the same I suppose syllabus and it will have an effect for a period of time, usually around two weeks. But the element of going somewhere and doing something unique and ingraining it in people's mind with an incredible environment, which the places that you've mentioned are our classrooms we like to call them. It's this moment in time for a group to come together, and usually that is a group of workers or a group of friends or people that are looking to change a culture. And that is that pivotal moment in time where that space will be forever known as that what changed in their groups. So environment and time are two things that everyone wants. Time is the hard one, and actually committing to it is the biggest step. But once you get there, it is really relaxing, and that's when the work starts.

Look, I think the big thing for us is that what we provide in it seems very fundamental is environment and time. Like you can have the same experience in a boardroom and be delivered the same I suppose syllabus and it will have an effect for a period of time, usually around two weeks. But the element of going somewhere and doing something unique and ingraining it in people's mind with an incredible environment, which the places that you've mentioned are our classrooms we like to call them. It's this moment in time for a group to come together, and usually that is a group of workers or a group of friends or people that are looking to change a culture. And that is that pivotal moment in time where that space will be forever known as that what changed in their groups. So environment and time are two things that everyone wants. Time is the hard one, and actually committing to it is the biggest step. But once you get there, it is really relaxing, and that's when the work starts.

Some of the things things like cold water immersion and they just sound terrifying to me and lookin at heart, so you know, no issues there. But do you find when people have environment, have time, they're able to do stuff that they didn't think they could do.

Some of the things things like cold water immersion and they just sound terrifying to me and lookin at heart, so you know, no issues there. But do you find when people have environment, have time, they're able to do stuff that they didn't think they could do.

Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's one of the reasons that we use nature as our classroom is because you take people out of the boardroom, you take people out of their day to day and just by getting into nature, we know that it reduces cortisol levels, it increases our focus on each other, so we start to connect into personally. One of the things that we really notice, and you can feel it when we're out on walks or when we're in nature, is that people kind of have this real shift. So we're kind of on our phones and our laptops and worrying about what's going on, and we're in this kind of constant state of arousal or constant state of fight or flight, which is just our workdays. And once we start to take that away, people get a bit of space. Dopamine increases, serotonin increases, and doorphins increase, and we get this beautiful sort of snap back into what it means to be connected, and that allows people to problem solve better. Our prefrontal cortex, which is the front of our brain where our executive functioning happens, that switches on, so we make better decisions, we have better conversations, we problem solve. So we've seen teams and individuals resolve conflict that has been going on under the surface for ages within the space of an hour's conversation. It enables these really deep connections that you just don't get when you're sitting in the boardroom where you're doing your other work every single day.

Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's one of the reasons that we use nature as our classroom is because you take people out of the boardroom, you take people out of their day to day and just by getting into nature, we know that it reduces cortisol levels, it increases our focus on each other, so we start to connect into personally. One of the things that we really notice, and you can feel it when we're out on walks or when we're in nature, is that people kind of have this real shift. So we're kind of on our phones and our laptops and worrying about what's going on, and we're in this kind of constant state of arousal or constant state of fight or flight, which is just our workdays. And once we start to take that away, people get a bit of space. Dopamine increases, serotonin increases, and doorphins increase, and we get this beautiful sort of snap back into what it means to be connected, and that allows people to problem solve better. Our prefrontal cortex, which is the front of our brain where our executive functioning happens, that switches on, so we make better decisions, we have better conversations, we problem solve. So we've seen teams and individuals resolve conflict that has been going on under the surface for ages within the space of an hour's conversation. It enables these really deep connections that you just don't get when you're sitting in the boardroom where you're doing your other work every single day.

See you get back home and you're back in the CBD in Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane or wherever you are, and you've been through this incredible experience. Now, in Jack case, when you kind of understood culture and coming together, your reward was an AFL flag. What about corporates? What's their reward? Can they stick with it? Can they hold on to it? I mean at the end of the day. Is it the bottom line that wins.

See you get back home and you're back in the CBD in Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane or wherever you are, and you've been through this incredible experience. Now, in Jack case, when you kind of understood culture and coming together, your reward was an AFL flag. What about corporates? What's their reward? Can they stick with it? Can they hold on to it? I mean at the end of the day. Is it the bottom line that wins.

Well, I think it's a whole range of facets as well. Like every great organization is built off the foundation of trust, So going through something like this reinstills that, establishes it, empowers it, and from there that's when I mean the gold really happens. And so many different areas of your business, whether that be a retention of the people, whether that be your bottom line, which a lot of businesses solely focus on, or whether that just be the harmony within your group, It all comes out of something like an authentic leader's immersion stronger and growing as well, and that's when the really good conversations, remarkable conversations actually happen and the acceleration of your people. And your people are your most important resource, so investing in them is critically important. That's when they start to shine and they start to act like authentic leaders, and they start to live a culture that is theirs, and they actually harbor it within this within themselves to then add to that as well. It's never growing organism a culture. As people come and go and as people start to grow and succeed, is that they continually add to it. So it's making sure that that keeps filtering through for the rest of the journey of that business.

Well, I think it's a whole range of facets as well. Like every great organization is built off the foundation of trust, So going through something like this reinstills that, establishes it, empowers it, and from there that's when I mean the gold really happens. And so many different areas of your business, whether that be a retention of the people, whether that be your bottom line, which a lot of businesses solely focus on, or whether that just be the harmony within your group, It all comes out of something like an authentic leader's immersion stronger and growing as well, and that's when the really good conversations, remarkable conversations actually happen and the acceleration of your people. And your people are your most important resource, so investing in them is critically important. That's when they start to shine and they start to act like authentic leaders, and they start to live a culture that is theirs, and they actually harbor it within this within themselves to then add to that as well. It's never growing organism a culture. As people come and go and as people start to grow and succeed, is that they continually add to it. So it's making sure that that keeps filtering through for the rest of the journey of that business.

One final question off air, Jack and Kate, you were laughing with alot each other. I'm not sure one or the other. You've got a great rapport. You come from such different worlds to this business. Did you find a lot of similarities notwithstanding your backgrounds?

One final question off air, Jack and Kate, you were laughing with alot each other. I'm not sure one or the other. You've got a great rapport. You come from such different worlds to this business. Did you find a lot of similarities notwithstanding your backgrounds?

I think we have a really similar value set and one of the key parts about Authentic leaders is that we also are very playful because we really believe in that. I think we probably play a lot.

I think we have a really similar value set and one of the key parts about Authentic leaders is that we also are very playful because we really believe in that. I think we probably play a lot.

Actually it's funny where our kids actually go to the same daycare as well, so that help deliver.

Actually it's funny where our kids actually go to the same daycare as well, so that help deliver.

To the pickup.

To the pickup.

But we're no different to any organization. Our people are where our strength live. So there's obviously myself and a Nick Randall who started. My wife has a master's in organizational leadership, so she's the general manager and we moved it from Tazzy when we were seventeen, so she's seen every part of corporate life but also seen every inch of AFL life and understands how compatible they are. And it goes onto our facilitators too. Are a lot of ex sports people that have great skills and have been successful in their own chosen industry, but are looking to in parts and wisdom, but also learned from our clients as well, because every client is unique, every culture is unique for our clients, and we're just here to take people along the journey and be a part of seeing people succeed because we've both seen that in many different facets and it can be really addictive when you see a group come through and have that shining moment on the top of Mount Beauty when they basicly you saw a twelve months worth of board meeting issues out in half an hour in the middle of the bush.

But we're no different to any organization. Our people are where our strength live. So there's obviously myself and a Nick Randall who started. My wife has a master's in organizational leadership, so she's the general manager and we moved it from Tazzy when we were seventeen, so she's seen every part of corporate life but also seen every inch of AFL life and understands how compatible they are. And it goes onto our facilitators too. Are a lot of ex sports people that have great skills and have been successful in their own chosen industry, but are looking to in parts and wisdom, but also learned from our clients as well, because every client is unique, every culture is unique for our clients, and we're just here to take people along the journey and be a part of seeing people succeed because we've both seen that in many different facets and it can be really addictive when you see a group come through and have that shining moment on the top of Mount Beauty when they basicly you saw a twelve months worth of board meeting issues out in half an hour in the middle of the bush.

Fantastic, Jack, Kate, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Fantastic, Jack, Kate, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

Sheldon That is Jack Revel and Kate Anderson from Authentic Leaders Group, a great supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed daily business news that people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.

Sheldon That is Jack Revel and Kate Anderson from Authentic Leaders Group, a great supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed daily business news that people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean alma Enjoy your day.