Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Adam Lang. Music, theater, comedy, movies, books. They all feature creativity, courage and a lot of hard work, and they play a role in any business. There is good fortune in that mix too, as things outside our control can often conspire a challenge to help us and occasionally rock our world. I'm delighted to welcome Australian superstar Tim Minchin to this Fear and Greed Interview. Tim is a creative force. He's a composer, author, performer, comedian, musician and a very strong advocate for the arts. He has partnered with support Act, the music industry's charity, to promote OZ Music T shirt Day on twenty eight November. Tim Minchin, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Adam Lang. Music, theater, comedy, movies, books. They all feature creativity, courage and a lot of hard work, and they play a role in any business. There is good fortune in that mix too, as things outside our control can often conspire a challenge to help us and occasionally rock our world. I'm delighted to welcome Australian superstar Tim Minchin to this Fear and Greed Interview. Tim is a creative force. He's a composer, author, performer, comedian, musician and a very strong advocate for the arts. He has partnered with support Act, the music industry's charity, to promote OZ Music T shirt Day on twenty eight November. Tim Minchin, Welcome to Fear and Greed.

Good a Adam, thank you for having me.

Good a Adam, thank you for having me.

It's my sincere pleasure. Tim. Let's start with what draws you to this cause You've worked incredibly hard, been courageous enough to have had to go at many pursuits and from the outside looking in, it seems like you are a superstar and have earned great success. But I'm sure it's not always felt that way to you. What does it mean to you to support organizations like Support Act and how has their work impacted the people that you know well.

It's my sincere pleasure. Tim. Let's start with what draws you to this cause You've worked incredibly hard, been courageous enough to have had to go at many pursuits and from the outside looking in, it seems like you are a superstar and have earned great success. But I'm sure it's not always felt that way to you. What does it mean to you to support organizations like Support Act and how has their work impacted the people that you know well.

I mean, I don't feel the urge to support Support Act because of my own experience. In fact, it's kind of the opposite. Although I've had my ups and downs and I've worked pretty hard, I feel my overwhelming sense when I reflect on my career is of how lucky I've been. But because I've been lucky, I guess I have an insight into what it looks like to not be and therefore I want to leverage my luck into to the extent that I can helping people who are less lucky. I mean, my first proper interaction with Support Act was when my tour manager, Greg died and I was able to use the charity to parlay some charity stuff for his family through that organization, which made it very It was a really great structure through which we could make a contribution to Greg's faundly because he died very suddenly and he was a total legend in our industry. But also, yeah, I have enough experience in the industry to know that the arts brings particular challenges. It's not harder than other businesses or anything, but it's very specific and there's a few things that in our industry that make mental health perhaps more challenging than average. And so I'm I'm just keen. I just think it's great. It's great charity for.

I mean, I don't feel the urge to support Support Act because of my own experience. In fact, it's kind of the opposite. Although I've had my ups and downs and I've worked pretty hard, I feel my overwhelming sense when I reflect on my career is of how lucky I've been. But because I've been lucky, I guess I have an insight into what it looks like to not be and therefore I want to leverage my luck into to the extent that I can helping people who are less lucky. I mean, my first proper interaction with Support Act was when my tour manager, Greg died and I was able to use the charity to parlay some charity stuff for his family through that organization, which made it very It was a really great structure through which we could make a contribution to Greg's faundly because he died very suddenly and he was a total legend in our industry. But also, yeah, I have enough experience in the industry to know that the arts brings particular challenges. It's not harder than other businesses or anything, but it's very specific and there's a few things that in our industry that make mental health perhaps more challenging than average. And so I'm I'm just keen. I just think it's great. It's great charity for.

Anyone who may not know what is I was music t Shirt Day and how does it work? How can people get involved on twenty eight to November to show their support.

Anyone who may not know what is I was music t Shirt Day and how does it work? How can people get involved on twenty eight to November to show their support.

Well, I think the campaign is really about buying T shirt. So a T shirt designed I think by Paul Kelly and Julius Stone a Stone and they're selling them to raise awareness of their work. And so on that day you can buy a T shirt, wear it around, spark conversations and encourage people to donate so that when artists find themselves in trouble, well not just artists, but people in our industry find themselves in trouble, there's some way they can go to. There's a fund.

Well, I think the campaign is really about buying T shirt. So a T shirt designed I think by Paul Kelly and Julius Stone a Stone and they're selling them to raise awareness of their work. And so on that day you can buy a T shirt, wear it around, spark conversations and encourage people to donate so that when artists find themselves in trouble, well not just artists, but people in our industry find themselves in trouble, there's some way they can go to. There's a fund.

And you can go to gigs at any time. I'm sure Support Act provides crisis relief for musicians and industry professionals. And as you said, Tim, sometimes we all face mental health, physical health, or other crises. Can you tell us more about the challenges the people in the music industry and your industry experiencing and how you see it and why support act's work is so important.

And you can go to gigs at any time. I'm sure Support Act provides crisis relief for musicians and industry professionals. And as you said, Tim, sometimes we all face mental health, physical health, or other crises. Can you tell us more about the challenges the people in the music industry and your industry experiencing and how you see it and why support act's work is so important.

I think it's for the arts that music especially. It's very hard to quantify the contribution it makes to society. You know, you hear a lot of people banging on about arts funding and stuff, and I'm really passionate about it that as well, But I'm also higher aware of how it might see to people outside of music industry for us to put particular importance on things like supporting musicians when there are so many people who struggle in the world. But I do think we as a society underestimate how important it is that we have a thriving culture. So firstly, on one side, it's important that we have thriving culture and that we support culture in our country through lots of different ways. But on the other side, people who work in our industry are particularly susceptible to mental health issues, I think because there's very little security. Like many people in the music industry, both on stage and backstage, are working week to week and when things like COVID happen or whatever, there's just no there's no security. You very rarely can get a loan or anything. It's a lot of passion goes into it, and so when people fall on hard times, there's less of a safety net than a lot of places that are more conventional employment arrangements, I guess. But also our industry loves to chew people up and spit them out. And there's this thing where we are artists, and especially artists musicians themselves are taught that their value is about like fame and success and adoration. And it's not great for people's brains to be pegging their sense of personal wellbeing to other people's approval. And so there are a lot of people who find themselves in a really bad emotional space because of the kind of fickleness of the game. Also, it's just that most people who strive to make art and contribute to culture don't make a great living, like the majority of people right often on the edge, you know. So I think I think if we want to thrive in culture, we need to understand that we in the industry we need to be collective, we need to help each other out, and this is an opportunity to do that. I think. Another thing that's hard about our industry is although there's a lot of collective, like we all a lot of people know each other and we play together and we it's quite a small world. There's also it's quite dislocated, you know that. There's often you don't feel like you're in an industry that has their arms around you because everyone's like trying to do their own thing. And it's also competitive, you know. So I think anything we can do and in the other industries I'm in too, in theater and telly, because it's quite competitive and everyone's trying to push out and do their own thing any opportunity. We have to have a sense of our collective identity to think of ourselves as a community. It's not always easy, you know, and I really believe in it. I think we do need to think of ourselves as a community and find opportunities to get together or to support one another.

I think it's for the arts that music especially. It's very hard to quantify the contribution it makes to society. You know, you hear a lot of people banging on about arts funding and stuff, and I'm really passionate about it that as well, But I'm also higher aware of how it might see to people outside of music industry for us to put particular importance on things like supporting musicians when there are so many people who struggle in the world. But I do think we as a society underestimate how important it is that we have a thriving culture. So firstly, on one side, it's important that we have thriving culture and that we support culture in our country through lots of different ways. But on the other side, people who work in our industry are particularly susceptible to mental health issues, I think because there's very little security. Like many people in the music industry, both on stage and backstage, are working week to week and when things like COVID happen or whatever, there's just no there's no security. You very rarely can get a loan or anything. It's a lot of passion goes into it, and so when people fall on hard times, there's less of a safety net than a lot of places that are more conventional employment arrangements, I guess. But also our industry loves to chew people up and spit them out. And there's this thing where we are artists, and especially artists musicians themselves are taught that their value is about like fame and success and adoration. And it's not great for people's brains to be pegging their sense of personal wellbeing to other people's approval. And so there are a lot of people who find themselves in a really bad emotional space because of the kind of fickleness of the game. Also, it's just that most people who strive to make art and contribute to culture don't make a great living, like the majority of people right often on the edge, you know. So I think I think if we want to thrive in culture, we need to understand that we in the industry we need to be collective, we need to help each other out, and this is an opportunity to do that. I think. Another thing that's hard about our industry is although there's a lot of collective, like we all a lot of people know each other and we play together and we it's quite a small world. There's also it's quite dislocated, you know that. There's often you don't feel like you're in an industry that has their arms around you because everyone's like trying to do their own thing. And it's also competitive, you know. So I think anything we can do and in the other industries I'm in too, in theater and telly, because it's quite competitive and everyone's trying to push out and do their own thing any opportunity. We have to have a sense of our collective identity to think of ourselves as a community. It's not always easy, you know, and I really believe in it. I think we do need to think of ourselves as a community and find opportunities to get together or to support one another.

Stay with me, Tim, We'll be back in a minute. My guest this morning is Tim mentioned Tim, I need to gush about being a fan for a bit comedy, musicals, television shows, films, books. I'm sure you've done lots more. I loved the music you did for Matilda. We saw it as a family. There's part in Miracle where the lines are Mum says I'm an angel sent down from the sky. My daddy says I'm a special little soldier. And I can hear those melodies as I say those words. You know, we all might aspire to be angels and soldiers, but sometimes we need a hand, and we probably need to role model that more as adults, that it's okay to ask for a hand in work and in life. How do you do it? How do you stay well and supported?

Stay with me, Tim, We'll be back in a minute. My guest this morning is Tim mentioned Tim, I need to gush about being a fan for a bit comedy, musicals, television shows, films, books. I'm sure you've done lots more. I loved the music you did for Matilda. We saw it as a family. There's part in Miracle where the lines are Mum says I'm an angel sent down from the sky. My daddy says I'm a special little soldier. And I can hear those melodies as I say those words. You know, we all might aspire to be angels and soldiers, but sometimes we need a hand, and we probably need to role model that more as adults, that it's okay to ask for a hand in work and in life. How do you do it? How do you stay well and supported?

Well, I'm very lucky, As I've said, one way I'm lucky is once I got to about thirty, even though I'd been struggling, things started going well for me and sort of didn't stop. So a lot of the pressures that face musicians I'm not under because of things like Matilda. I have financial security, and you can't underestimate that. I think a lot of people get into music thinking they're going to be rich and famous. You don't want either of those things, but you do want stability. You do want to know where your rent's coming from and that you can get your kids through school and stuff. So I have on one side that very real security, and on the other side, I have this really really supportive family including a partner who basically gave up her own career to support mine, although I think maybe she just really enjoyed like tootling around the world. But I also have a very very strong extended family. You know, I'm a pretty conservative guy. I'm not a you don't see me out in the middle of the night at gigs very often. I live a pretty head down lifestyle. So the things I do, I've always been hyper hyper aware of the fragility of mental health when you're an artist, because you get these huge high hires and all this affirmation and love, and then suddenly it's all pressure and you're alone and you feel the weight of it all on your shoulders and you think I can't possibly be enough for these people. And then you get criticism, and people love to hate some forms of art, and you know, people, I say in my book, you know, people love defining themselves in opposition to stuff, and all of that is difficult. So I take it really really seriously by being very careful about the substances I put in my body and very careful with prioritizing my family and the things that keep me stable. And I bang on about that stuff a lot. So you know you don't need to hear another lecture from me, but I do think we as artists need to not think of ourselves as like special angels. I think we need to treat ourselves like workers, and we need to treat each other like workers. We need to build communities where we're like, this is just a job. We work really hard. We've got each other's backs. If someone's in trouble, we do what we can to help them out, and we value our work. But we don't you know, the highs and lows. I try to flatten them out as much as I possibly can, because it's very tempting to just go higher and higher, and then you just go lower and lower.

Well, I'm very lucky, As I've said, one way I'm lucky is once I got to about thirty, even though I'd been struggling, things started going well for me and sort of didn't stop. So a lot of the pressures that face musicians I'm not under because of things like Matilda. I have financial security, and you can't underestimate that. I think a lot of people get into music thinking they're going to be rich and famous. You don't want either of those things, but you do want stability. You do want to know where your rent's coming from and that you can get your kids through school and stuff. So I have on one side that very real security, and on the other side, I have this really really supportive family including a partner who basically gave up her own career to support mine, although I think maybe she just really enjoyed like tootling around the world. But I also have a very very strong extended family. You know, I'm a pretty conservative guy. I'm not a you don't see me out in the middle of the night at gigs very often. I live a pretty head down lifestyle. So the things I do, I've always been hyper hyper aware of the fragility of mental health when you're an artist, because you get these huge high hires and all this affirmation and love, and then suddenly it's all pressure and you're alone and you feel the weight of it all on your shoulders and you think I can't possibly be enough for these people. And then you get criticism, and people love to hate some forms of art, and you know, people, I say in my book, you know, people love defining themselves in opposition to stuff, and all of that is difficult. So I take it really really seriously by being very careful about the substances I put in my body and very careful with prioritizing my family and the things that keep me stable. And I bang on about that stuff a lot. So you know you don't need to hear another lecture from me, but I do think we as artists need to not think of ourselves as like special angels. I think we need to treat ourselves like workers, and we need to treat each other like workers. We need to build communities where we're like, this is just a job. We work really hard. We've got each other's backs. If someone's in trouble, we do what we can to help them out, and we value our work. But we don't you know, the highs and lows. I try to flatten them out as much as I possibly can, because it's very tempting to just go higher and higher, and then you just go lower and lower.

I just ordered your book. You don't have to have a dream advice for the incrementally ambitious. I loved the title alone. Then I read it. I loved the book even more. But tell me why did you write it? How did it come about?

I just ordered your book. You don't have to have a dream advice for the incrementally ambitious. I loved the title alone. Then I read it. I loved the book even more. But tell me why did you write it? How did it come about?

Well, one of the things I do a bit of is speaking, and a few you know, three universities have given me honorary doctorates, you know, fake degrees, but they are an honor. But the quid pro quo is they'll give you a they'll give you a floppy hat and a doctorate that you're allowed to call yourself doctor only within confines of the university that give it to you, and the quid pro quo as you make a speech to graduates. And so I've made three of those speeches. One of them particularly went very very viral, and then a publisher said, do you want to make your speeches into a book? And I thought, well, sure, but I'm going to write a bit more. So it's a collection of speeches and essays that kind of talk about my worldview and try to sort of give a bit of wisdom, such as it is, especially to young people, about the things I've learned since I left university about life and art and respect and critical thinking. You know, I bang on a lot about critical thinking because that's my educational basis. So yeah, I just I really believe in sharing your ideas and finding lots of interesting ways to share your ideas. Obviously do it through my work, but as I get older, I'm like, I might as well just tell them what I think, let it out.

Well, one of the things I do a bit of is speaking, and a few you know, three universities have given me honorary doctorates, you know, fake degrees, but they are an honor. But the quid pro quo is they'll give you a they'll give you a floppy hat and a doctorate that you're allowed to call yourself doctor only within confines of the university that give it to you, and the quid pro quo as you make a speech to graduates. And so I've made three of those speeches. One of them particularly went very very viral, and then a publisher said, do you want to make your speeches into a book? And I thought, well, sure, but I'm going to write a bit more. So it's a collection of speeches and essays that kind of talk about my worldview and try to sort of give a bit of wisdom, such as it is, especially to young people, about the things I've learned since I left university about life and art and respect and critical thinking. You know, I bang on a lot about critical thinking because that's my educational basis. So yeah, I just I really believe in sharing your ideas and finding lots of interesting ways to share your ideas. Obviously do it through my work, but as I get older, I'm like, I might as well just tell them what I think, let it out.

And you did that on tour too. You did a speaking to her about the book.

And you did that on tour too. You did a speaking to her about the book.

Had to go, Yeah, that was really interesting. I mean you know, you talk about the insecurities of being an artist. I'd get on stage and just get interviewed in front of, you know, a couple of thousand people, and I had a real overwhelming sense of that not really being enough. Like, obviously, I've worked very hard over a very long period of time to get good at what I do, which is play piano and talk fast about big ideas, and so just doing an interview sort of felt like is this enough? But people found it interesting? I think. I mean, I'm off social media now, which is another thing I do for my mental health, which means I don't get all the immediate feedback. But I've heard secondhand that people really enjoyed it. I like tackling big ideas, and I do have a tendency to be honest when people ask me questions, and I think that's reasonably unusual in our industries. So I'm a freak show of just saying what I think.

Had to go, Yeah, that was really interesting. I mean you know, you talk about the insecurities of being an artist. I'd get on stage and just get interviewed in front of, you know, a couple of thousand people, and I had a real overwhelming sense of that not really being enough. Like, obviously, I've worked very hard over a very long period of time to get good at what I do, which is play piano and talk fast about big ideas, and so just doing an interview sort of felt like is this enough? But people found it interesting? I think. I mean, I'm off social media now, which is another thing I do for my mental health, which means I don't get all the immediate feedback. But I've heard secondhand that people really enjoyed it. I like tackling big ideas, and I do have a tendency to be honest when people ask me questions, and I think that's reasonably unusual in our industries. So I'm a freak show of just saying what I think.

Please carry on doing that. Tim. Finally, before I let you go, what would you say to anyone listening and considering donating or buying a shirt and wearing it proudly? On OZ Music t Shirt Day on twenty eight November.

Please carry on doing that. Tim. Finally, before I let you go, what would you say to anyone listening and considering donating or buying a shirt and wearing it proudly? On OZ Music t Shirt Day on twenty eight November.

I think we should be very, very proud of our arts in Australia. I think we punch way above our weight where it's a country full of brilliant creatives, and I think we should be proud of our music industry, proud of the creative diversity within it, and aware that although it just looks like a whole lot of fun, it is not an easy place to be and we definitely lack some of the infrastructure that more conventional workplaces have. So anything you can do to raise awareness and give a bit of money, I think be great. I think it's I think it's a good cause and something we can all get behind because we all consume music and that's a really big part of our national identity.

I think we should be very, very proud of our arts in Australia. I think we punch way above our weight where it's a country full of brilliant creatives, and I think we should be proud of our music industry, proud of the creative diversity within it, and aware that although it just looks like a whole lot of fun, it is not an easy place to be and we definitely lack some of the infrastructure that more conventional workplaces have. So anything you can do to raise awareness and give a bit of money, I think be great. I think it's I think it's a good cause and something we can all get behind because we all consume music and that's a really big part of our national identity.

I think Tim, thank you so much for joining us and sharing this message.

I think Tim, thank you so much for joining us and sharing this message.

Huge pleasure, Adam, thanks for having me.

Huge pleasure, Adam, thanks for having me.

OZ Music t Shirt Day is happening on Thursday, twenty eight November and you can learn more at Ozmusic t Shirt Day dot org dot au about the vital work that Support Act does for our music community. Please support the arts as much as you can. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and greed. Daily business news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Adam Lang. Have a great day.

OZ Music t Shirt Day is happening on Thursday, twenty eight November and you can learn more at Ozmusic t Shirt Day dot org dot au about the vital work that Support Act does for our music community. Please support the arts as much as you can. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear and greed. Daily business news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Adam Lang. Have a great day.