BHP says it underpaid workers more than 430 million dollars. Victoria Cross recipient, Ben Robert Smith, loses a landmark defamation case with the judge finding he committed serious war crimes, including murder, and why people are moving around the country more than ever. It's Friday the 2nd of June, 2023. Welcome to Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Aylmer.

BHP says it underpaid workers more than 430 million dollars. Victoria Cross recipient, Ben Robert Smith, loses a landmark defamation case with the judge finding he committed serious war crimes, including murder, and why people are moving around the country more than ever. It's Friday the 2nd of June, 2023. Welcome to Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Aylmer.

Good morning, Michael.

Good morning, Michael.

Sean, after the show, you are speaking today with Tim Lawless, head of research at CoreLogic.

Sean, after the show, you are speaking today with Tim Lawless, head of research at CoreLogic.

Yes. With those figures coming out this week about what's happening in the housing market and particularly the boom in house prices, Sydney primarily, but Melbourne as well. In fact all capital cities rose. We talk to Tim about what's going on, why that's the case, and most importantly whether it will continue. Now, Tim is certainly one of the preeminent judges of what's going on in the housing market, so it is well worth a listen if you're interested in housing.

Yes. With those figures coming out this week about what's happening in the housing market and particularly the boom in house prices, Sydney primarily, but Melbourne as well. In fact all capital cities rose. We talk to Tim about what's going on, why that's the case, and most importantly whether it will continue. Now, Tim is certainly one of the preeminent judges of what's going on in the housing market, so it is well worth a listen if you're interested in housing.

Yeah, absolutely. Well worth sticking around for. It's coming up a little bit later on, but the main story this morning, Sean, BHP says about 28 and a half thousand past and present employees have been underpaid 430 million dollars after conceding that it had wrongly deducted annual leave from staff entitlements for more than a decade.

Yeah, absolutely. Well worth sticking around for. It's coming up a little bit later on, but the main story this morning, Sean, BHP says about 28 and a half thousand past and present employees have been underpaid 430 million dollars after conceding that it had wrongly deducted annual leave from staff entitlements for more than a decade.

Yes. The company reported itself to the Fair Work Ombudsman and said the issue related to the accounting treatment of public holidays, which had been miscalculated since 2010. Thirteen years. That's a long time. Many reports say that BHP Systems didn't update sufficiently to account for new legislation at the time. It's a bit of a flashpoint issue at the moment because BHP has created an in- house contracting team called Operations Services. Most Operations Services staff are based in the Queensland coal fields, and they earn wages that are lower than those earned by workers at the same mine who are covered by a different enterprise agreement. That's the sort of arrangement that the Albanese governments, same job, same pay legislation, is looking to abolish. That legislation is still being negotiated and when things like this happen, BHP yesterday, it gives the government more ammunition to push what it wants. Yesterday, Employment Minister Tony Burke, jumped on the BHP news to push for the legislation.

Yes. The company reported itself to the Fair Work Ombudsman and said the issue related to the accounting treatment of public holidays, which had been miscalculated since 2010. Thirteen years. That's a long time. Many reports say that BHP Systems didn't update sufficiently to account for new legislation at the time. It's a bit of a flashpoint issue at the moment because BHP has created an in- house contracting team called Operations Services. Most Operations Services staff are based in the Queensland coal fields, and they earn wages that are lower than those earned by workers at the same mine who are covered by a different enterprise agreement. That's the sort of arrangement that the Albanese governments, same job, same pay legislation, is looking to abolish. That legislation is still being negotiated and when things like this happen, BHP yesterday, it gives the government more ammunition to push what it wants. Yesterday, Employment Minister Tony Burke, jumped on the BHP news to push for the legislation.

Sean, underpayment is becoming a really serious issue because we've talked about this on a number of occasions now. There's been a bunch of recent examples.

Sean, underpayment is becoming a really serious issue because we've talked about this on a number of occasions now. There's been a bunch of recent examples.

Sure has. The banks have been caught up in this, for example, the retailers have been caught up in it. Mostly, they don't deliberately try and underpay, it's just that the legislation is so complex and the need for good systems so important that they just don't get it right. Now, that's not necessarily an excuse for BHP. It's got a lot of money behind it. It should be getting this right. Mass underpayment by major corporates has soared during the past four years, particularly the Fair Work Ombudsman recovered a record 532 million dollars in back pay in the last financial year. More than half of that came from big companies that were forced to back pay 279 million dollars to about 267,000 employees. So as you say, Michael, it's a very serious issue and it's a growing issue.

Sure has. The banks have been caught up in this, for example, the retailers have been caught up in it. Mostly, they don't deliberately try and underpay, it's just that the legislation is so complex and the need for good systems so important that they just don't get it right. Now, that's not necessarily an excuse for BHP. It's got a lot of money behind it. It should be getting this right. Mass underpayment by major corporates has soared during the past four years, particularly the Fair Work Ombudsman recovered a record 532 million dollars in back pay in the last financial year. More than half of that came from big companies that were forced to back pay 279 million dollars to about 267,000 employees. So as you say, Michael, it's a very serious issue and it's a growing issue.

A question that you might not know the answer to, Sean, how do these things get discovered? Would it be a combination of internal audits or is it people just checking their pay slips and going, something doesn't feel right here?

A question that you might not know the answer to, Sean, how do these things get discovered? Would it be a combination of internal audits or is it people just checking their pay slips and going, something doesn't feel right here?

Mostly it's internal audits because this one, for example, has been going on for 13 years, so people get very used to it. There might be, in this instance I gather, I can't say this a hundred percent, there was a change in legislation around annual leave and how people were rewarded for that. They obviously didn't change their systems to take into account. No one noticed that at the time, and then at some point it's been audited and people realize what's been going on. Generally, the companies don't do it intentionally. In fact, almost never do it intentionally, though I'm not sure that's an excuse.

Mostly it's internal audits because this one, for example, has been going on for 13 years, so people get very used to it. There might be, in this instance I gather, I can't say this a hundred percent, there was a change in legislation around annual leave and how people were rewarded for that. They obviously didn't change their systems to take into account. No one noticed that at the time, and then at some point it's been audited and people realize what's been going on. Generally, the companies don't do it intentionally. In fact, almost never do it intentionally, though I'm not sure that's an excuse.

Now, and it also seems like there's not a huge amount of public criticism necessarily of companies that do this because it feels like any one of us could be next. Any company could be the next one to realize that actually there is a problem in the way that we've been paying people.

Now, and it also seems like there's not a huge amount of public criticism necessarily of companies that do this because it feels like any one of us could be next. Any company could be the next one to realize that actually there is a problem in the way that we've been paying people.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the retailers for years have complained about the number of different awards across states. It is a real problem. Obviously, the union movement gets very upset when it's uncovered, and they have every right to do that because these companies are very large and they should actually be able to get this right.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the retailers for years have complained about the number of different awards across states. It is a real problem. Obviously, the union movement gets very upset when it's uncovered, and they have every right to do that because these companies are very large and they should actually be able to get this right.

And of course today the Fair Work Commission will hand down its annual minimum and award wage decision.

And of course today the Fair Work Commission will hand down its annual minimum and award wage decision.

Yes, very, very big announcement. There's been plenty of argy- bargy around this. A large rise will influence the Reserve Bank towards lifting interest rates when it meets next week. Wages without productivity growth remains one of Reserve Bank Governor, Philip Lowe's, chief concerns. Now, Federal Treasury has assumed a 7% lift in the minimum wage. Probably more important is the award wage part of it. That's expected to rise somewhere between 4% and 7%. Be very, very interesting to see how that one turns out.

Yes, very, very big announcement. There's been plenty of argy- bargy around this. A large rise will influence the Reserve Bank towards lifting interest rates when it meets next week. Wages without productivity growth remains one of Reserve Bank Governor, Philip Lowe's, chief concerns. Now, Federal Treasury has assumed a 7% lift in the minimum wage. Probably more important is the award wage part of it. That's expected to rise somewhere between 4% and 7%. Be very, very interesting to see how that one turns out.

Yeah, it certainly will, and we'll hear your take on it this afternoon in the afternoon report. How did local markets perform yesterday, Sean?

Yeah, it certainly will, and we'll hear your take on it this afternoon in the afternoon report. How did local markets perform yesterday, Sean?

The S&P/ASX 200 closed up 0. 3% to 7, 111 points. Healthcare and tech stocks did best. Consumer staples and telco companies also outperformed. All those sectors are defensive. They tend to do better when times are tough. That pretty much illustrates the mood in the market at the moment. Among the large caps, CSL, Fortescu Metals and Woolies all jumped by around 1. 2%. Transurban was off 1. 3%. Woodside Energy, ANZ and Westpac all underperformed. Worth having a quick look at Paladin Energy, its share price jumped 11% yesterday after it said it wasn't aware of any imminent Namibian legislation that would affect its 75% owned mine. Remember earlier in the week, a Namibian government minister said the country should get equity in all mines in the country for free. That sent Paladin's share price down 20%. It regained half of that yesterday. It was the best of the top 200. Some of the gold stocks also outperformed yesterday. Market leader, Newcrest Mining, finished up 2. 7% while Northern Star was 3. 2% higher.

The S&P/ASX 200 closed up 0. 3% to 7, 111 points. Healthcare and tech stocks did best. Consumer staples and telco companies also outperformed. All those sectors are defensive. They tend to do better when times are tough. That pretty much illustrates the mood in the market at the moment. Among the large caps, CSL, Fortescu Metals and Woolies all jumped by around 1. 2%. Transurban was off 1. 3%. Woodside Energy, ANZ and Westpac all underperformed. Worth having a quick look at Paladin Energy, its share price jumped 11% yesterday after it said it wasn't aware of any imminent Namibian legislation that would affect its 75% owned mine. Remember earlier in the week, a Namibian government minister said the country should get equity in all mines in the country for free. That sent Paladin's share price down 20%. It regained half of that yesterday. It was the best of the top 200. Some of the gold stocks also outperformed yesterday. Market leader, Newcrest Mining, finished up 2. 7% while Northern Star was 3. 2% higher.

Did you expect to be talking about Namibia this much, Sean, this week?

Did you expect to be talking about Namibia this much, Sean, this week?

No, and it's a very hard word to say, Namibia.

No, and it's a very hard word to say, Namibia.

I know it's really, really hard. It looks so easy, doesn't it? And then you say it and you're like, nope, stumbled over that one.

I know it's really, really hard. It looks so easy, doesn't it? And then you say it and you're like, nope, stumbled over that one.

So I think we have Anglicized versions of country names and I think Namibia is the hardest of the lot. I'm sure in the local language I'd have no chance of saying a bunch of countries names, but at least in the Anglo side of things, Namibia. Find a more difficult one than that one.

So I think we have Anglicized versions of country names and I think Namibia is the hardest of the lot. I'm sure in the local language I'd have no chance of saying a bunch of countries names, but at least in the Anglo side of things, Namibia. Find a more difficult one than that one.

Okay, challenge accepted. I will do that and I'll come back to you. In the meantime, international markets, what's going on?

Okay, challenge accepted. I will do that and I'll come back to you. In the meantime, international markets, what's going on?

Big development yesterday, fears of the US defaulting on five June were alleviated, not dismissed, alleviated, yesterday morning, Australian time, after the House of Representatives in the US passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling. It's a major victory for Republican Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, and it now goes to the Senate. Now the house voted 314 to 117 in favor of the bill, but US politics is convoluted. No such thing as voting along party lines as occurs here in Australia. So the yes vote, those 314 yes votes included 165 Democrats and 149 Republicans, while there were representatives from both sides who voted against it. So it's like a Southern Democrat may well be more right wing than a northern Republican. I think I got that right.

Big development yesterday, fears of the US defaulting on five June were alleviated, not dismissed, alleviated, yesterday morning, Australian time, after the House of Representatives in the US passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling. It's a major victory for Republican Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, and it now goes to the Senate. Now the house voted 314 to 117 in favor of the bill, but US politics is convoluted. No such thing as voting along party lines as occurs here in Australia. So the yes vote, those 314 yes votes included 165 Democrats and 149 Republicans, while there were representatives from both sides who voted against it. So it's like a Southern Democrat may well be more right wing than a northern Republican. I think I got that right.

Can you imagine being the one doing the numbers? Trying to figure out who's going to vote. I mean I've watched the West Wing, so I know how this kind of thing works.

Can you imagine being the one doing the numbers? Trying to figure out who's going to vote. I mean I've watched the West Wing, so I know how this kind of thing works.

We know how it works.

We know how it works.

You have people tallying, going, yeah, we've got the numbers to get this through. How on earth would you figure out where everyone stands on that?

You have people tallying, going, yeah, we've got the numbers to get this through. How on earth would you figure out where everyone stands on that?

I do not know. I do not know. It's quite incredible. Anyway, it goes to the Senate first and then it goes to the President, Joe Biden, for his signature, assuming it gets through the Senate. That news was calming for markets. Otherwise, oil prices are down again. Gold has risen in recent sessions and the Aussie dollar is trading just over 65 US cents.

I do not know. I do not know. It's quite incredible. Anyway, it goes to the Senate first and then it goes to the President, Joe Biden, for his signature, assuming it gets through the Senate. That news was calming for markets. Otherwise, oil prices are down again. Gold has risen in recent sessions and the Aussie dollar is trading just over 65 US cents.

All right, we'll be back in a moment with the rest of the day's business news. Sean, after 110 days in court, 41 witnesses and around 25 million in legal fees, Justice Anthony Besanko has found that The Age, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Canberra Times have proven some allegations of war crimes against Victoria Cross recipient, Ben Robert Smith.

All right, we'll be back in a moment with the rest of the day's business news. Sean, after 110 days in court, 41 witnesses and around 25 million in legal fees, Justice Anthony Besanko has found that The Age, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Canberra Times have proven some allegations of war crimes against Victoria Cross recipient, Ben Robert Smith.

It's probably the biggest defamation trial ever in Australia, and Justice Besanko found the news outlets had established the substantial truth of the key allegation in the case, that Robert Smith was involved in the unlawful killing of unarmed Afghan prisoners. Justice Besanko ruled that Mr. Robert Smith had committed murders of civilians, including a farmer kicked off a cliff in the village of Darwin, and a one- legged man dragged from a tunnel at the compound known as Whiskey 108. The finding pretty much ends Mr. Robert Smith's treasured reputation as an Australian war hero. Robert Smith claimed that the articles wrongly accused him of war crimes in Afghanistan and domestic violence at home. The newspapers stood by the articles, calling 26 witnesses, including former special air services soldiers and three Afghan locals to give evidence that the information it reported is true. I think it's a very sad story at the end of the day, Michael.

It's probably the biggest defamation trial ever in Australia, and Justice Besanko found the news outlets had established the substantial truth of the key allegation in the case, that Robert Smith was involved in the unlawful killing of unarmed Afghan prisoners. Justice Besanko ruled that Mr. Robert Smith had committed murders of civilians, including a farmer kicked off a cliff in the village of Darwin, and a one- legged man dragged from a tunnel at the compound known as Whiskey 108. The finding pretty much ends Mr. Robert Smith's treasured reputation as an Australian war hero. Robert Smith claimed that the articles wrongly accused him of war crimes in Afghanistan and domestic violence at home. The newspapers stood by the articles, calling 26 witnesses, including former special air services soldiers and three Afghan locals to give evidence that the information it reported is true. I think it's a very sad story at the end of the day, Michael.

Yeah, it certainly is an extraordinary one all round. Sean, business investment, which is a key component of economic growth, rose 2.4% during the march quarter with spending on equipment and machinery soaring.

Yeah, it certainly is an extraordinary one all round. Sean, business investment, which is a key component of economic growth, rose 2.4% during the march quarter with spending on equipment and machinery soaring.

Okay, time for an economics lesson, Michael. I reckon you really want one, don't you?

Okay, time for an economics lesson, Michael. I reckon you really want one, don't you?

Yes. No, actually I do. I enjoy your economics lessons.

Yes. No, actually I do. I enjoy your economics lessons.

Righto. If you think about the economy, you have consumption.

Righto. If you think about the economy, you have consumption.

See, whenever you say consumption, I think of tuberculosis.

See, whenever you say consumption, I think of tuberculosis.

Right. That's a really bad start in terms of being a economics lesson.

Right. That's a really bad start in terms of being a economics lesson.

Okay. All right, so all right, so if we just kind of rewind. I need to separate consumption and TB in my head and just, okay, I'm focused.

Okay. All right, so all right, so if we just kind of rewind. I need to separate consumption and TB in my head and just, okay, I'm focused.

That's a very old fashioned term.

That's a very old fashioned term.

I know, and I don't know why.

I know, and I don't know why.

My grandmother would've said that. Would've said you had consumption.

My grandmother would've said that. Would've said you had consumption.

TB has not been called consumption for so long, but for some reason every time you say it, there's this word association in my head and go, oh yeah, Sean's talking about TB. He's not. He's talking about the economy. Please go on.

TB has not been called consumption for so long, but for some reason every time you say it, there's this word association in my head and go, oh yeah, Sean's talking about TB. He's not. He's talking about the economy. Please go on.

That's right. Okay, so you have consumption. Retail spending's a big part of that. It's trending lower. You also have government spending that's mildly expansionary, and then you have investment. Thing about investment, it is much more volatile than the others. So as a result, when the economy surges or contracts, often it's because of business investment. That's why we watch it so closely. Figures from the Bureau of Statistics show that business investment is up 6. 3% compared to a year ago, which is actually pretty good. The bureau also asks businesses how much they're going to invest, and that's the one economists like to keep a close watch on. Yesterday's data suggests investment is moderating and certainly will in the second half of this year. Put all that together. What's it mean? The economy is definitely slowing, Michael.

That's right. Okay, so you have consumption. Retail spending's a big part of that. It's trending lower. You also have government spending that's mildly expansionary, and then you have investment. Thing about investment, it is much more volatile than the others. So as a result, when the economy surges or contracts, often it's because of business investment. That's why we watch it so closely. Figures from the Bureau of Statistics show that business investment is up 6. 3% compared to a year ago, which is actually pretty good. The bureau also asks businesses how much they're going to invest, and that's the one economists like to keep a close watch on. Yesterday's data suggests investment is moderating and certainly will in the second half of this year. Put all that together. What's it mean? The economy is definitely slowing, Michael.

Sean, just one term that I need clarification on. Having already cleared up the confusion around consumption. When you say mildly expansionary, what does that exactly mean?

Sean, just one term that I need clarification on. Having already cleared up the confusion around consumption. When you say mildly expansionary, what does that exactly mean?

Well, it's putting into the economy more than it's taking out. So Phil Lowe, the Reserve Bank governor, actually this week, when asked specifically whether last week's budget was adding to growth or detracting from growth, and you can detract from growth by taking taxes from people. If you have a really high tax take that might be contractionary, if you're spending lots. So during Covid, it was certainly expansionary with JobKeeper and things like that. He was asked what it was and he said " mildly expansionary". So mildly putting growth into the economy.

Well, it's putting into the economy more than it's taking out. So Phil Lowe, the Reserve Bank governor, actually this week, when asked specifically whether last week's budget was adding to growth or detracting from growth, and you can detract from growth by taking taxes from people. If you have a really high tax take that might be contractionary, if you're spending lots. So during Covid, it was certainly expansionary with JobKeeper and things like that. He was asked what it was and he said " mildly expansionary". So mildly putting growth into the economy.

Okay. God, I learn some stuff on this show.

Okay. God, I learn some stuff on this show.

Do you retain it?

Do you retain it?

I do. I welcome any pop quiz from you.

I do. I welcome any pop quiz from you.

Righto.

Righto.

At any time.

At any time.

Righto.

Righto.

They are big words and I don't know whether I'm going to be able to back it up. Now, last week, Commonwealth Bank Boss, Matt Common, mandated that staff come into the office at least 50% of the time. Yesterday it became clear how many people will be affected when Mr. Common said thousands of bank employees are currently coming into the office less than one day a week.

They are big words and I don't know whether I'm going to be able to back it up. Now, last week, Commonwealth Bank Boss, Matt Common, mandated that staff come into the office at least 50% of the time. Yesterday it became clear how many people will be affected when Mr. Common said thousands of bank employees are currently coming into the office less than one day a week.

No wonder he mandated it. Wow. So the bank has around 50, 000 employees and management want them to spend more time in the office. Common's argument, as he explained on Sydney Radio Station 2GB yesterday, is that certain types of work are done more effectively in person. There's greater opportunities for mentoring and people who are new to the bank are more successful when they spend more time in the office. The main reasons given by Commonwealth Bank staff for not coming into the office are parental duties and the cost of getting into the office, commuting costs. Anyway, Matt Common wants them back in there at least 50% of the time.

No wonder he mandated it. Wow. So the bank has around 50, 000 employees and management want them to spend more time in the office. Common's argument, as he explained on Sydney Radio Station 2GB yesterday, is that certain types of work are done more effectively in person. There's greater opportunities for mentoring and people who are new to the bank are more successful when they spend more time in the office. The main reasons given by Commonwealth Bank staff for not coming into the office are parental duties and the cost of getting into the office, commuting costs. Anyway, Matt Common wants them back in there at least 50% of the time.

Sean, Trade Minister, Don Farrell says the government will reopen its complaint to the World Trade Organization over China's sanctions on barley if the restrictions are not fully revoked.

Sean, Trade Minister, Don Farrell says the government will reopen its complaint to the World Trade Organization over China's sanctions on barley if the restrictions are not fully revoked.

Farrell said the Albanese government wants China to comply with the provisions and the free trade agreement that both countries have signed. He went on, " If we find ourselves in a situation where having shown an act of goodwill to suspend our WTO application and we don't get the result we want, we have made it clear to the Chinese government that we will resume that application". Farrell described discussions with his Chinese counterpart in Detroit last week as warm and he's hopeful China will make a positive decision after its review into Australian barley imports. He also said that the Albanese government is about more trade, not less trade, and China is our biggest test to stability.

Farrell said the Albanese government wants China to comply with the provisions and the free trade agreement that both countries have signed. He went on, " If we find ourselves in a situation where having shown an act of goodwill to suspend our WTO application and we don't get the result we want, we have made it clear to the Chinese government that we will resume that application". Farrell described discussions with his Chinese counterpart in Detroit last week as warm and he's hopeful China will make a positive decision after its review into Australian barley imports. He also said that the Albanese government is about more trade, not less trade, and China is our biggest test to stability.

The federal government has announced an eight week public consultation period to consider AI regulation. That's its first step in overseeing the growing field since the release of ChatGPT in November last year. It feels like it's been around for a lot longer than that just because so much has happened in that time.

The federal government has announced an eight week public consultation period to consider AI regulation. That's its first step in overseeing the growing field since the release of ChatGPT in November last year. It feels like it's been around for a lot longer than that just because so much has happened in that time.

So much and an eight week consultation period. I mean, it's quite the task really given most of us have absolutely no clue how AI is going to change the world.

So much and an eight week consultation period. I mean, it's quite the task really given most of us have absolutely no clue how AI is going to change the world.

So it's essentially an eight week public consultation period that will spend most of its time peering into crystal balls.

So it's essentially an eight week public consultation period that will spend most of its time peering into crystal balls.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's probably being generous. So yesterday Science Minister, Ed Husic, said Australians need modern laws for modern technology and he wants experts and the community to come forward to contribute to what that actually means. Good intentions there, but I don't think any of us know what it means. Husic put the potential economic contribution of AI at between one and $ 4 trillion and the community needs assurance around how the technology is applied. Look, I don't think we've got any chance of regulating it at the moment, but plaudits for actually starting the process.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's probably being generous. So yesterday Science Minister, Ed Husic, said Australians need modern laws for modern technology and he wants experts and the community to come forward to contribute to what that actually means. Good intentions there, but I don't think any of us know what it means. Husic put the potential economic contribution of AI at between one and $ 4 trillion and the community needs assurance around how the technology is applied. Look, I don't think we've got any chance of regulating it at the moment, but plaudits for actually starting the process.

Yeah, it's a good thing to get on board with now rather than trying to stuff the AI genie back into the bottle, huh?

Yeah, it's a good thing to get on board with now rather than trying to stuff the AI genie back into the bottle, huh?

Yes, it would work its way out. You just say, AI Genie work out how to get out of the bottle.

Yes, it would work its way out. You just say, AI Genie work out how to get out of the bottle.

And away you go. Gosh, we're going down some odd places today, Sean. People are moving between capital cities and regions at the highest rate in five years, driven by employment opportunities and industry growth.

And away you go. Gosh, we're going down some odd places today, Sean. People are moving between capital cities and regions at the highest rate in five years, driven by employment opportunities and industry growth.

More people in the major cities of Sydney and Melbourne are heading for a life in regional areas, while the number of people moving from regional areas to the cities is also at its highest since 2018. The Regional Movers Index is a partnership between Commonwealth Bank and the Regional Australia Institute. It looks at trends in people moving around the country. While people are moving away from Sydney and Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane are the popular capital city destinations, at least. Across the board though regional Victoria and tropical Queensland are the key destinations for Capital City movers. They account for about 43 and 29% share of net outflows. In contrast, the number of people moving to regional New South Wales actually fell.

More people in the major cities of Sydney and Melbourne are heading for a life in regional areas, while the number of people moving from regional areas to the cities is also at its highest since 2018. The Regional Movers Index is a partnership between Commonwealth Bank and the Regional Australia Institute. It looks at trends in people moving around the country. While people are moving away from Sydney and Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane are the popular capital city destinations, at least. Across the board though regional Victoria and tropical Queensland are the key destinations for Capital City movers. They account for about 43 and 29% share of net outflows. In contrast, the number of people moving to regional New South Wales actually fell.

Okay. One last one before we get to international news. If you've ever been frustrated by surge pricing implemented by Uber and others, there's a little bit of good news out of New South Wales, Sean?

Okay. One last one before we get to international news. If you've ever been frustrated by surge pricing implemented by Uber and others, there's a little bit of good news out of New South Wales, Sean?

Yes. So Uber prices during what they call black swan events and public transport outages will be artificially suppressed under an agreement struck by the New South Wales government. According to The Australian, after successive disruptions to Sydney's rail network saw Uber prices reach ridiculous heights under the company surge model. The state government has reached an agreement to limit prices skyrocketing in the affected areas. In the instance of public transport network failures, price surging will be capped at two times prices. In black swan events, terrorist attacks, natural disasters, stuff like that, price surging would actually remain at normal rates. Okay, it's not much, but it is a start, Michael.

Yes. So Uber prices during what they call black swan events and public transport outages will be artificially suppressed under an agreement struck by the New South Wales government. According to The Australian, after successive disruptions to Sydney's rail network saw Uber prices reach ridiculous heights under the company surge model. The state government has reached an agreement to limit prices skyrocketing in the affected areas. In the instance of public transport network failures, price surging will be capped at two times prices. In black swan events, terrorist attacks, natural disasters, stuff like that, price surging would actually remain at normal rates. Okay, it's not much, but it is a start, Michael.

It is a start. It's progress.

It is a start. It's progress.

It is progress.

It is progress.

All right. International news time now and the Earth has already passed safe limits for humans as temperatures rise, water system disruption and destruction of natural habitats have reached out of boundaries.

All right. International news time now and the Earth has already passed safe limits for humans as temperatures rise, water system disruption and destruction of natural habitats have reached out of boundaries.

Not a good news story, this one.

Not a good news story, this one.

No. It doesn't actually sound very positive, does it?

No. It doesn't actually sound very positive, does it?

No, no. Look, a study by a group of the world's foremost scientists published in the journal Nature, identified eight earth system boundaries, things like climate, biodiversity, water, ecosystems, land use, the effects of fertilizers and aerosols, and how they affect life, according to the Financial Times. Human activities had pushed seven of these boundaries beyond their safe and just limit into risk, the zones that indicate a threat to planetary and human health. It isn't very good, Michael. It really isn't. Researchers have traditionally focused on the effects of climate change or biodiversity loss on the planet itself, but the study from the Earth Commission group of scientists is an attempt by experts to identify the limits after which humans will suffer significant harm. Much more whole than just climate change and biodiversity. Includes things like a lack of access to clean water, low food security and displacement or loss of work because of temperature rise or flooding. Anyway, the upshot is that seven of the eight parameters we seem to have passed.

No, no. Look, a study by a group of the world's foremost scientists published in the journal Nature, identified eight earth system boundaries, things like climate, biodiversity, water, ecosystems, land use, the effects of fertilizers and aerosols, and how they affect life, according to the Financial Times. Human activities had pushed seven of these boundaries beyond their safe and just limit into risk, the zones that indicate a threat to planetary and human health. It isn't very good, Michael. It really isn't. Researchers have traditionally focused on the effects of climate change or biodiversity loss on the planet itself, but the study from the Earth Commission group of scientists is an attempt by experts to identify the limits after which humans will suffer significant harm. Much more whole than just climate change and biodiversity. Includes things like a lack of access to clean water, low food security and displacement or loss of work because of temperature rise or flooding. Anyway, the upshot is that seven of the eight parameters we seem to have passed.

All right. One last one, Sean. A drinks company owned by Sean Combs, known as Diddy, of course, has sued Diageo for alleged racial discrimination, arguing the global conglomerate has not adequately invested in brands associated with the rapper.'

All right. One last one, Sean. A drinks company owned by Sean Combs, known as Diddy, of course, has sued Diageo for alleged racial discrimination, arguing the global conglomerate has not adequately invested in brands associated with the rapper.'

In court documents filed in New York State and reported in the Financial Times, the musician's company, Combs Wines and Spirits, said Diageo has treated Mr. Combs and his brands worse than others because he's black. The DeLeon tequila brand, co- owned by the two groups, and Diageo's Ciroc vodka brand in which it collaborates with Combs, have been typecast and treated as black brands that should be targeted to urban consumers, according to the legal suit. Diageo characterized the group's differences as a business dispute adding that, " We are saddened that Mr. Combs has chosen to recast this matter as anything other than that". It said it categorically denied the allegations, will vigorously defend itself and had a steadfast commitment to diversity. I think this will be a very interesting case to watch.

In court documents filed in New York State and reported in the Financial Times, the musician's company, Combs Wines and Spirits, said Diageo has treated Mr. Combs and his brands worse than others because he's black. The DeLeon tequila brand, co- owned by the two groups, and Diageo's Ciroc vodka brand in which it collaborates with Combs, have been typecast and treated as black brands that should be targeted to urban consumers, according to the legal suit. Diageo characterized the group's differences as a business dispute adding that, " We are saddened that Mr. Combs has chosen to recast this matter as anything other than that". It said it categorically denied the allegations, will vigorously defend itself and had a steadfast commitment to diversity. I think this will be a very interesting case to watch.

Yeah, certainly will be. All right. Up next is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Today, Sean, you're speaking with Tim Lawless, head of research at CoreLogic, one of our favorite people when it comes to talking about real estate.

Yeah, certainly will be. All right. Up next is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Today, Sean, you're speaking with Tim Lawless, head of research at CoreLogic, one of our favorite people when it comes to talking about real estate.

Yes, all about what's happening in house prices and whether the boom can last.

Yes, all about what's happening in house prices and whether the boom can last.

Indeed, it's coming up next in the Fear and Greed playlist on your podcast platform or at fearandgreed.com.au and Sean, two days have now gone past and I have not mentioned How Do They Afford That?, and I should have done that two days ago.

Indeed, it's coming up next in the Fear and Greed playlist on your podcast platform or at fearandgreed.com.au and Sean, two days have now gone past and I have not mentioned How Do They Afford That?, and I should have done that two days ago.

You need to, yeah.

You need to, yeah.

Because it was Wednesday two days ago, which is when the new episode came out, and this week's episode, which is our sister podcast, focusing on personal finance. It's actually all about life insurance, which sounds a little bit grim, I know, but it's quite an important topic in terms of figuring out how much you need, who you talk to about it, and the processes that you need to be putting in place. It's an important conversation. Well, worth a listen. You find that one wherever you listen to podcasts. How Do They Afford That? is the name of the show. Sean, thank you very much.

Because it was Wednesday two days ago, which is when the new episode came out, and this week's episode, which is our sister podcast, focusing on personal finance. It's actually all about life insurance, which sounds a little bit grim, I know, but it's quite an important topic in terms of figuring out how much you need, who you talk to about it, and the processes that you need to be putting in place. It's an important conversation. Well, worth a listen. You find that one wherever you listen to podcasts. How Do They Afford That? is the name of the show. Sean, thank you very much.

Thank you, Michael.

Thank you, Michael.

It's Friday, the 2nd of June, 2023. Make sure you're following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. Stay up to date on all the business news with Alexa and your Amazon Echo Smart speaker as well. Simply say, Alexa, play the Fear and Greed podcast. To catch the latest episode you can grab yours now at Amazon. com. au. I'm Michael Thompson and that was Fear and Greed. Have a great day.

It's Friday, the 2nd of June, 2023. Make sure you're following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. Stay up to date on all the business news with Alexa and your Amazon Echo Smart speaker as well. Simply say, Alexa, play the Fear and Greed podcast. To catch the latest episode you can grab yours now at Amazon. com. au. I'm Michael Thompson and that was Fear and Greed. Have a great day.