George Conway & Ryan Mac

Published Jan 15, 2025, 5:00 AM

The Atlantics George Conway Eamines Bidens final days and what he should do with pardons The New York Times Ryan Mac Details the tech bros rebellion against being woke

Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds, and Mike Johnson vows to hold federally hostage to the state of California after the deadly fires. We have such a great show for you today. The Atlantics George Conway stops by to talk to us about the Jack Smith report and Biden's final days. Then we'll talk to The New York Times Ryan Mack about Tech Bros. Fires and what's happening in California. But first the.

News, Smalie, have you been popping the popcorn while Pete Higgsith gets confirmed today?

No, I have been watching the Pete Hegseith confirmation and thinking to myself, they prepared him really well.

Can I play you a contradiction to prepared very well?

Yes?

Please, mister Higgs said, I do not believe that you are qualified to meet the Oldwhelm meet the band job. We must acknowledge the concerning public reports against you. A variety of sources, including your own writings, implicate you with disregarding the laws of war, financial mismanagement, racists, and sexist remarks about men and women. In uniform, alcohol abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment, and other troubling issues. I have reviewed many of these allegations and find them extremely alarming. Indeed, the totality of your own writings and elected conduct that would disqualify any service member from holding any leadership position in military, much less being confirmed.

As a Secretary of Defense.

Nonetheless, I understand that you reject many of these reports as they involve whistleblowers, non disclosure agreements, and are anonymous, although numerous sources the HECKSA.

What is the highest level of international negotiations that you have engaged in that you've led them? Because the Secrety Defense does lead international security negotiations, there are three main ones that the Secretary of Defense leads and signs. Can you name at least one of them?

Could you repeat the question, Sena, sure, what.

Is the highest level of international security agreement that you have led? And can you name some that the Secretary of Defense would lead? There are three main ones.

I have not been involved in international security arrangements because I have not been in government other than serving in the military, So my job has been you name one of the three main ones that talking about defense arrangements, I mean NATO might be one of the one that you're referring to.

Status of Forces agreement would be one of them, stead of.

Force status of forces agreement. I've been a part of teaching about Status of Forces agreement.

You don't remember to mention it. You're not qualified, mister heiseth. You're not qualified. You talk about repairing our defense industrial.

Complex, you're not qualified to that.

You could do the acquisition and cross servicing agreements, which essentially.

I thought he did a pretty good job. I mean, I'm not a head fan, and you know, there are definitely cabinet appointees that seem like they will sail through. I was sort of on the fence about whether he would sail through, but I actually think he's going to get through. And look, the problem with him is twofold, right, he's not competent to run a three million plus organization of more than three million people. And he's also clearly has some form of alcohol issue. Maybe he's not God, I mean right, I mean, he clearly has. He's clearly a person who should not drink. But I thought he did well. I thought they prepared him well. And the only moment where he really got flu mixed was when he couldn't answer that question to Duck Wars, I thought, what the mistake that Democrats made here was not coordinating better with each other. And I think that what would have worked really well. And I'm not sure why they didn't do this, and I know that they don't historically do this, but I think they should start was I wish they had had each member of the committee focused on a different aspect. I think they would have done better had they asked questions and then made him answer them instead of like I saw this a couple of different times in the hearings. You had someone like Senator Jillibrand, who's obviously, like, very passionate about this topic for obvious reasons as am I. But you know, she'd ask him a question he wouldn't be able to answer, and then she'd just keep going. And I wonder how much if these interviewers, if these senators would ask a question and push push push for answers, that they might get more Like I think that the moments of like a senator grand standing, and that we saw this on left and the right. We always see this, you know, that's kind of the joke about these committee hearings. I almost wondered if we could have more of the just like push him to try to get him to answer questions, because if you can't answer a question that says more than a senator saying stuff we already know they think.

Or they collapse like Kavanaugh did with the I drink beer, right.

I think that might have been a better way to do it than to just sort of keep going, you know, keep talking and talking and talking. We get it, we get it, And I think that would have been better. Look, I never thought that Democrats would be able to prevent hegseeth and I'm not sure how Like the ones that I the ones that keep me up at night are Gabbard and RFK and Cash Battel. Everyone else I think is sort of I just don't know how many people you can possibly filibuster. And I think he's going to get through.

Yeah, seems that way after today, so mally switching gears. Jack Smith's report dropped last night, and it seems like Trump would have been convicted as the analysis. What are you seeing here?

Well, with all this stuff, you know, the rules were made that like you can't convict a former president, you can't do this to a form, you know, they were at every point there were these rules that the Justice Department made that protected Trump from any accountability, and then they sort of tried to get him accountability and they couldn't. So I do think, like Merrick Garland, the fact that this even got released so far after Trump was in office is a really good example of how much these this was sort of a failure on the part of Merrick Garland, Like, this stuff should have come out right away. They should have, you know, gone all in unaccountability, They should have held Trump accountable. Now, this coming out a week before he's inaugurated, less than a week before he's inaugurated, he's a real sign that everything didn't go the way it was supposed to it. There's not a ton of new information though the forty fifth president inspired his supporters to commit acts of physical violence. That's a statement you really don't want ever written about you. He's spread a false narrative about election fraud in the twenty twenty race, he determined in the final report. So, I mean, those are serious, serious, serious allegations, which we also happen in real time. And then let's also add that Trump is so struck by them that. In response, he hits out at Smith at one am when normal people are sleeping, but he and Elon are on the internet, branding Smith to be deranged and a lame brain prosecutor. Look, it's a weird moment in Trump world, where you have he's won, he's about to be president again, and yet he's still really angry that Jack Smith is releasing this report. You know, it's funny. It's like, you think about it, it's like Trump knows deep down that he did something wrong. Right, People who don't think they did something wrong don't stay up all night tweeting about a report, right, they just go bad. I mean, I'm serious, Like there's like real telltale heart stuff going on here. By the way, the fact that this gets released a few days before the confirmation, it makes everybody look stupid, right. It makes the people supported Trump look stupid. It makes Trump look stupid. It makes the people who know that Trump did someling wrong. I mean, you know it under it sort of makes a mockery of everyone on the left and the right because it shows that the system doesn't work, that it didn't work, and that you know, Trump is now going back into office. So I think of it as like it really shows it on every point that nobody did what they were supposed to do, and that democracy, you know, it continues to be in real peril.

Yeah, speaking of things that are in peril. For as long as I can remember paying attention to the news would be sitting at the table with my family. I can remember Republicans wanting to cut SNAP. But I would say, right now, we're probably in the time where the crosshairs could be shot most effectively, and it's looking like that's where Republicans are aiming very early on in these first hundred days of the Trump administration.

So the central tension here is that Trump and Republicans want to cut the social safety net. They want to take away stuff like Snap, and they want to do it. That's food stamps. They used to be called food stamps when we were young. They want to do it in order to pay for these billionaire tax cuts, millionaire billionaire tax cuts. So the underlying tension of the election was always that these twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen tax cuts, they basically the only piece of legislation Trump was able to enact, would expire if Biden or Harris Scott elected, re elected, and so what happened instead when Trump won was that he wants to make the fiscal conservatives happy by giving them something. He wants to keep these tax cuts where they are, and so what he is planning to do is cut Social Security of Medicare. But that's very unpopular, and so Republicans are trying to figure out a way to cut Social Security and Medicare without getting political blowback for cutting Social Security and Medicare. And there's different stuff going around. Look, you know, Mike Johnson has a one seat majority in the United States Congress. He has now been told that he has to punish California for having wildfires, you know, even though they are the fifth largest economy in the world and pay into the federal government quite a bit more than any of the states that Donald Trump likes. Right, there's sort of the quote unquote good states. So hard for me to imagine that this will end well for anyone. I do want to just add the California if they decide they don't want to be a part of America, they could be their own country tomorrow. And so playing chicken with California on federal aid seems like a loser for them right, because, like think about it, there is no world in which this doesn't end poorly for Trump and for everyone involved. So I think that I think that that ultimately California will get as much eight as it wants. And I think that all this dumb grandstanding about woke won't serve anyone.

Yeah, except for Republican fundraising from the people who who cheer for that stuff.

George Conway is a contributor to the Atlantic and a lawyer. Welcome back, too Fast Politics, My best friend and also fellow dog owner, the one the only Papa Conway.

Welcome, Welcome, well, thank you for having me once again for the five thousand, six hundred and forty seventh time.

Look, man, you make good content.

We're just here, No, I just feel when you can't find anybody better. I'm the one you go to, which is fine, Which is fine. That's one role as your friend, it's my role.

That is an insane, insane thing to think, but I'll let you do if it keep if it keeps you humble. Let's talk about why it's a bad idea to issue preemptive pardons and make a complete mockery out of the justice system. You might not know where I stand on this.

I don't believe in making a complete mockery of the justice system. So therefore, if you believe that the preemptive Partners would do that, I support your position completely. No I understand the rationale for them or the motivation for them. I think there are a lot of people and have actually had this discussion on Michael Cohen's podcast and express this view, and he yelled at me, but he always yells, that's what he does on his podcast. But my view, you know, I feel bad for the people who could potentially be victimized by bullshit prosecutions by the next administration. On the other hand, I don't believe that people who have not done anything wrong should be tarnished with the suggestion they have done in something by being offered a pardon. And I think legally accepting a pardon does not actually constitute an admission of guilt, but it is commonly viewed as such. I think the best way to defend people who are subject to false accusations and trumped up accusations, so to speak, would be to defend them, and I, for one, will contribute money and I will contribute time to help these people I think there are going to be a lot of lawyers who will volunteer to help these people. And that being said, I don't you know, it's small consolation to having your life potentially turned upside down by bullsh investigation. But at the end of the day, I still think there is some justice left in our justice system. And you know, at the end of the day, you still have to prove of facts in a courtroom beyond a reasonable doubt that const due to crime in order to put somebody in jail, and with good lawyering, and I think that, you know, the risk that people are really going to be unjustly prosecuted is not high and convicted, I deeply, deeply empathize with people who might be subject to this. This is just the way we have to do it. I mean, I don't think the preemptive party really would be constructive. It would be used politically against the people who are standing up for democracy. I just think there's so many reasons that it's a bad idea. It shouldn't get off ground. And I think I don't think it's actually going to happen. I think what happened by now.

Yeah, And I also think part of it is that the people who are the very famous people like the Liz Chenese. It ultimately is actually worse to publicly take these pardons, is worse for democratic norms than to not.

Yeah, I am sure that Liz Cheney would never accept the party, she would not ask for one, and she'd be perfectly happy to engage in a fight over And they have so many defenses, these people who worked in the January sixth Committee, this is all going to end up being smoke by the chief lunatic. My new title for him is first Felon of the United States. And again that's ffotus all caps. It should be capitalized because out of respect, first felons should be capitalized. It should be capitalized because it's referring very specifically to an individual. So any English teacher will tell you that he is the first felon in multiple senses, the first felon to ever be elected president and to become president. He is the chief felon of the United States in the sense there are no other felons who really exceed his authority in power. And I was achieved as much as him, so I mean, he really is the first felon of the United States. And maybe I should raise some money for a billboard.

I think that's coming. There's no way that's not coming.

Billboard to go up and say, welcome to you know, to somewhere in Palm Beach. Welcome to mar A Lago, home of the nation's first felon. First felon, of course, would be really nice mugshot picture of the first felon.

That's wonderful.

This is and this is my announcement of this idea. I think people should do this maybe and I save this for your podcast.

It clearly seems that this is coming. So let's talk about the Jack Smith report that broke last night. It feels to me, and again I could be wrong, that were those two have dropped a little earlier, it would have been a little bit better to discuss.

I think it would have been better for the report to have dropped earlier. I think it would even be better than better if the whole investigation had been conducted earlier. It led to this report. The report is, you know, absolutely a scathing condemnation of the first felon of the United States, but it doesn't add much to the public record. I mean I skimmed through it and I read the press reports because I figured that if there was something additional juice, that there was juicy that we didn't know before, the press would have seized on it. But I skimmed the one hundred and thirty seven page and then footnotes, and it doesn't appear that there is that much in there that is new, I mean. And the fact of the matter is, most of what we know about what Trump did on January sixth, twenty twenty one, we knew by January eighth, twenty twenty one, Okay, after we read the morning newspapers on that day, after a full day of reporting, knew what he did, what most of what he did was on the public record, and it certainly was you know, I think the January sixth committee did an excellent job investigating this, and I think I'm sure Jack Smith not only replicated that but exceeded that. But the truth of the matter is we've already seen basically what the material that would have prosecuted him and convicted him, you know, when after the Supreme Court's Community decision, it's all out there, and all of that information, most of that information, it wasn't necessary to conduct all of those other investigations of all the minions, the one thousand people, the Proud Boys, the whatnot and the other hooligans who were convicted. There should have been a parallel investigation starting champe Ey twentieth twenty first, twenty twenty one, the US Attorney's office. They should have handled the people on the hill, the jan sixers, the little guys, and there should have been a special council appointed then to handle what happened from the White House down and then could have them meet if there were connections, you have the people work together. But if they had done that, this case would have been tried two years ago or three. It wasn't that complicated. Knew what he did on the theories that Smith ultimately brought this case, and it was a streamline case because it was directed at one man, the man who, as the report says, instigated the entire event, the entire attempt to overthrow the Constitution of the United States, and the violence against police office, the destruction at the Capitol. It was all because of him. Now you cannot you can't say that he was conspiring with the individuals who conducted the physical violence. But he did try to pollute the electoral process. He tried to commit fraud on state legislators, on the Congress, all selectoral certificates, so many things that just basically were out there in the public, and the theories on which Trump was charged didn't require an investigation from the bottom up. Now, I hate to say this about Garland because I admire Attorney General Garland for his intelligence and his integrity.

Yeah, yeah, let's go. I love this, let's go, let's get this.

Report is effectively a significant condemnation of how he conducted himself in his four years. This information could have been obtained by twenty twenty three, at the latest of twenty twenty two.

Yeah, we saw it on television.

We saw it on television, as again or repeating myself. And the other thing is that what happened was because there was no ongoing investigation in twenty twenty one of Trump people forgot about his It should have been immediately framed as potential criminality, which it was potential criminality, but it wasn't framed as such because everybody was. The Justice Department went off and did what it had to do, which is prosecute the hundreds of hooligans and morons who conducted all the destruction on Capitol Hill.

Mayor Garland was a person whose whole life was about becoming a Freme Court justice, world's most careful person. Ever, that is not so one you should have leading the DOJ.

Well, it isn't, It isn't. I mean, I'm not second guessing him, okay, because I'm first guess. On the day after the inauguration, you may recall, I wrote a five thousand word piece argue that multiple special counsels should be a point to investigating Trump because there were so many different things that he committed that did that were potentially criminal, from his finances to the Stormy Daniel's case to Ukraine, the Ukraine extortion that was criminal. Also, this is first guessing, not second guessing. And I think history is not going to look well on Attorney General Garland. And I hate to say that because I think, you know, he was an admirable person. All You're right, he was in the wrong job. It was the wrong job. I mean that, I think really more than anything. I mean, I think it was important to have somebody a perceived integrity, which he has, right but in the end, but in the end, you needed somebody who was going to push this thing fast and he ultimately found the guy to do that. And you look at look at other criminal prosecutors, look at Menendez. He got convicted, and he was indicted after Trump.

And Menendez going to jail, correct.

And he was indicted. I think after Trump it was imperative to keep the thing going just because to move the thing quickly, not only because it was important that this was the most significant crime they have committed in public life ever, but because Trump could be depended upon to run again in order to avoid prosecution. Was pretty clear he was going to do that by twenty twenty one. And this notion, this self deceptive notion that both Senator McConnell had, that Trump would somehow go away, which it was shared by them by people in the Biden administration, a lot.

Of people on the Biden administration.

Yeah, this man is like a vampire.

Yeah. I also think these are the norms that he crushed. To think that those norms would somehow work to prevent him from bad and criminal acts is kind of nutting.

Well, no, the norms are fine, The norms were fine.

Well, they didn't work, right.

They can work, they do work, they should work.

They usually work on someone normal.

But the reason is there was a lack of energy.

This is a small point, but I'm going to make it because it's my podcast. Is that these norms work if you have shame or if you have some pause, and they work on literally almost everyone, but they don't work on Trump and to try and use them.

Okay, we're talking about different norms. You're talking about norms of behavior.

No, I'm talking about Justice Department norms. Right, Like, usually when you have somebody in a court case at some point that they sit for trials or they follow subpoenas. Trump doesn't do stuff like that.

Look, I don't agree in the following sense. Yeah, I guess he doesn't follow to me, yes, but you can, you can enforce things against him. There was nothing preventing Garland from getting all the evidence that he needed. The problem was that the norms were not followed by the Justice party. He was not treated like the criminal that he is. Okay, you know he complains that he was singled out. Yeah, he was singled out for special helpful treatment to him. Anybody else who did this, Okay, like the classified documenting the class would have been basically arraigned immediately.

Right, let's have two seconds here, on the head Seth fight. So Pete headsets totally unqualified allegations of sexual.

I disagree that he's totally unqualified. The United States Department of Defense is probably I mean, it's the largest employer in the world, and it is probably the largest purchaser of alcohol in the world. I mean, you think about it. You've got px's all around the nation, you have officers clubs. There is no way that the Department of Defense isn't the largest booze purchaser on the planet. And that is something that heg Seth could manage.

Yes, very much.

In fact, I mean I think I'm sure the Joint chiefs will be happy to take him on a tour of all the officers clubs to keep him busy whilst they conduct the business of the other business.

So just to just to cut you off here for a second, as much.

As I well, you're you made the mistake of inviting you.

No, I'm happy to have you, but just for two seconds. There's a real pressure campaign going on. Heg Seth has sherpas who are very much good at doing that Maga thing of intimidating people and making them do what they want. Does he get the only sort of people who could possibly There was a piece yesterday in The New Yorker from by our friend Jane Mayer who said that basically Collins refused to meet with the with one of the alleged victims. So talk to us about one of the accusers. Talk to us about what you think. I mean, does he get through? And if he gets through, is he put in a little room where he can buy all the booze? I mean, where does this go?

I have said time and again and I repeat myself that nobody is ever going to go broke betting on the spinelessness of Republican senators. Okay, so that that's that's the thing. I mean, obviously, if if two or three break, that could be you know, that should be enough. But you know, unless they if Jony Earns caves, if these if these women cave, if Senator Collins won't even meet with some of the victim, I mean, you know, that tells you a lot. It tells you that that tells you that they're afraid that the cowards and they consider I mean, you know, I susant Collins. So how when is she up again for re election.

In two years?

In two years it's like, and how old is she?

And that's a purple state.

That is a purple state.

It's my point is like these people care less about their own reputation and integrity, and they're they're willing to debase themselves time and again for this mean even the better and Collins is a little bit better, not much, right, but but she is a little bit better. I mean, you know, I like to see what Murkowski's gonna do.

She's got some.

Cohmonists, Yeah she does.

And Joanie Ernst, who actually knows, you know, who is really good on defense issues and there's a good reputation on defense issues, and herself was an assault victim. If Trump gets her vote, it's over. The guy's going to go through. But it just shocks me that these people put there. I mean, why be elected to an office if you're going to debase yourself. I do not understand that. It's something that I will carry with me to my grave about Republican politicians and the spinelessness of Republican politicians, which is why we have Donald Trump today.

Yeah, exactly. The one sort of real piece of news from this report was this Pence that Trump while he was watching the riot rage. The TV where Trump was sitting show a rider saying that Pence was Trump's last hope, and then Trump issued a tweet directing the mob to target Pens Is that sort of I mean we sort of knew that.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, the exact timing of it is interesting, but we knew. We mean, he was pressuring Pence for weeks, okay, and they met and it wasn't a pleasant meeting. So of course he was going to say something about Pence of course, like we can't be friends. And good for Karen Pence for not even acknowledging Donald.

Trumps mother Beence. Welcome to the resistance, mother.

Pet Yes exactly.

George Conway the one, the only Thank you for joining.

Always good.

Ryan Mack is a journalist at the New York Times and the co author of Character Limit, How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Ryan Mack.

Thanks for having me.

Delighted to have you. So you are right now in California. You are where the fires are. You've been reporting about the fires. So can you get us sort of caught up on where we are now?

Sure? I'm typically a technology for the New York Times. I'm based in Los Angeles, but for the last week I've been turned into a full time fire reporter. You know, it's all hands on deck down here. It's kind of an unprecedented disaster. I've kind of lent my reporting help to where I can around the newsroom. You know where we stand right now. There's two major fires, the Palisades Fire which is still raging, as well as the Eton fire out in kind of the eastern part of LA and around a town called Altadena, which was devastated. I've been reporting largely in Altadena. I haven't been to the Palisades yet, but I can tell you what I've seen out there is just absolute destruction of whole neighborhoods. A lot of folks have used this metaphor of a bomb going off, and I've never been in a bomb zone or a war zone, but it looks bad. It's just horrible. So yeah, we have dozens of reporters around town. They're a measurable number of outlets here trying to understand what's happening. There haven't been a clear picture of how these fires started, but they have spread very rapidly given the weather conditions down here and terrible.

Yeah, from what I understand, the Altadena fire and the Pasadena fire are now contained right or out.

No, the Altadena fire, which is the Eden fire, is still going. I think the last I checked it was in the thirty ish percentage containment is where they were estimating it at. The Palacies fires is less contained. That's on the west side of La. It's threatening communities in.

Malibu and Brentwood, right.

Yeah, it was stopped from going to Brentwood, which is another neighborhood, but it's kind of moving westward up into some more rural areas. But there are people up there, you know, into Panga, into Malibu, and they're continuing to go. You know, there's we're talking on a Tuesday afternoon right now. The winds are supposed to get continue to be bad through tonight and so we're just going to have to see where we end up tomorrow morning with the winds and if other you know, if this thing picks up. There have been other fires that have started as well in the southern California region, and there's one now called the Auto Fire, which is more towards Oxnard, which is kind of northwest. So you know, they're beyond the fires that are happening now, there's a lot of concern about other ones starting some of the inland Empire and what those could do to kind of already stretched resources.

Can you explain to us sort of what because I've been following them, because my brother lives there, my father. What I've had a really hard time sort of getting my head around is kind of like how this happened, because it seems like there are a number of factors that caused this, and I'm wondering if you could just talk us through that.

Yeah, I think at first I'd like to speak to like understanding how this is because you know, I haven't really lived through a fire like this in my lifetime, even though I've grown up in southern California, grew up in Orange County and fires are kind of always a threat. You know, I haven't lived in a neighborhood that's been devastated in this way.

But from Diddion to Nathaniel West, I mean this has been a It's yeah, it's part of.

The way of life done here. But I will say, like now, having lived through on I don't think you can understand the scale until you've been here. You know, it almost consumes your life. You wake up every morning, I now check this app called Watch Duty, which I wrote about recently me too, you know, to check the containment. You know, you're paying attention to very large aircraft these like water carriers and where those are going. You're paying attention to the press conferences that are happening every couple hours to get updates on you know, number of missing people, number of dead, and it just consumes you. Yeah, and now having that's been my last week, it's been it's been interesting because you know, I've read about disasters in the past, especially things like the hurricanes down in you know, the Southeast that happened late last year, but when you're living through it, it's it's a whole nother matter. It's just been devastating.

The problem was that it was so many fires. Just sort of get us up to speed on.

Yeah, there was a lot of concern heading into you know, last Tuesday, a week ago, there were these very high winds that were coming through southern California, known as the Santa Ana Winds. I know, winds are a part of life here, especially in this time of year, but there was already concern that if there was a fire event. These winds could spread embers very quickly. It could spread fires very quickly, and there's a lot of dry vegetation in these hillsides and on these mountains that could be consumed by an inferno. And on top of that, I don't think we had the resources to be prepared for kind of a two pronged attack in a way, you know, if I think, you know, if there had been one fire, it would have been more manageable. But because there were two fires that happened in quick succession, you know, the winds also prevented these aircraft from getting up in the air and being able to douse these blazes. So this thing just took off first in the Palisades and then in Altadena up in the hills and were kind of unmitigated, you know. I was I was talking to residents in Altadena who who got alerts about the wind, but by the time the fire was literally at their doors or they had no more service, the power was out in their area, They had no internet, they couldn't have communication, and they kind of just got up and left because they were smoking their homes, their trees were on fire. I don't know We're still assessing the causes and the failures here, but there seemed to be a failure of communication of significant warning, even though there was already concerns about the winds. And I don't think anyone expected that these fires could go into these neighborhoods in the way that it did. Became an urban fire in a way where it hopped from home to home. You know, we think about fires in southern California, you know, going through the brush and rural areas or non populated areas, But in Altadena, at the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains, like this fire moved miles beyond the mountains into the town, to the point where you can go for blocks and not find kind of an intact home.

So talk to me about misinformation, because it feels like there's been a fallod of misinformation here. It's hard for even me, like works in this business, to sort of figure out like what's real what's not real? Like and I know that the right has wanted to say this was fires started by migrants, that this was somehow the fault of homeless people. So can you just talk us through some of the misinformation going on?

I think The key to understand any disaster is that there's always going to be fear. There's real fear among people who aren't getting high quality information because we simply just don't know. And in those you know, minutes, in those hours, in those days where there is a lack of good information, you know, there there is bad information that's going to permeate, and there are people that are going to try and take advantage of that situation and spread bad information. Whether that's because they you know, are trying to mean well and they're trying to you know, help others, or they're maybe trying to you know, advance some position politically. There was a lot of blame on versity, equity and inclusion initiatives in city government for example. You know that is a kind of favorite right wing argument that DEI is destroying the world. I mean we saw it when, for example, the doors were falling off Boeing planes. You know, right wing influencers and kind of high profile and high profile individuals we're pushing this idea that you know, Boeing is woke and it's affected by DEI and therefore you know, pilots are bad and planes are bad.

Yeah, Yeah, is greed whoa now.

And you know that that became an argument, and immediately after the fires, you know, people just looking for things to blame, organizations to blame, and yeah, and that environment causes certain misinformation to proliferate, and it's hard beating back those essentially lies in those moments because you know, as a reporter, you're trying to report accurately. You know, you're trying to check everything, whereas someone who is you know, spreading information only has to hit their re tweet button or has to put some unverified claim online and it spreads. So, yeah, I saw the DEI stuff. There's a you know, discussion about migrants for example, kind of your play the hits kind of from right wing members. Yeah.

Yeah, and there's a lot of blame, you know, towards elected I get, I completely get. I have to say part of the problem, from what I understand, is that the fact that they were multiple fires meant that even though there was quite a lot of water, the water pressure ended up dropping and that was why some of the hydrants were empty. Is that correct or Am I wrong there?

Yeah, there are a lot of concerns about about water, and I don't think we've ascertained what exactly happened here. But I mean, oh.

Really, so you think it might be the reservoirs, because I know there's one reservoir that was offline.

You think about your home, right and this is a firefighter put this to me. You know, think about your home. Let's say you turn all your all yours. You know you're not going to get the best you know in your home, you're not going to get the best shower pressure water pressure from your shower. Similar kind of thing happened here where people are all drawing from the same source. You know, you have firefighters trying to link into hydrants, you have people trying to use their garden hoses to spray down their rooftops. You know, everyone's trying to save their homes, and it's drawing from this resource and preventing sometimes emergency workers from getting the best possible use of water.

Okay, so you think it was water pressure.

Though, h yeah. And I mean I've talked to some firefighters in Altadena, for example, who said, you know, above a certain above a certain street, they would tap into a fire hydrant and wouldn't get any water at all. A thing that we have to think about as well, in which we also saw in Malle for example, with that kind of horrible fire. Is that when you turn the power off, it prevents the pumps from going and pumping water through the system. And so there's always this trade off of turning off power.

Explain why you why they turn off the power.

They turn off the powers to prevent these lines from being electrified. You know, these above ground lines which could you know, fall in high winds and spark a blaze. So utility companies are always weighing this kind of trade off of do we keep the power on and run this risk you know of potentially a power line going down and sparking a flame, but you know, maintaining power to people who who would be unhappy if their power went out, maintaining the water because you know, water pumps rely on on electricity, or do we turn this thing off and you know, maybe piss off residents, but you know, prevent that fire risk from happening. And I think it's a really tough call because you don't know when you when you've made the right decision, when you turn off the power and everything goes right and then no fire happens. It's not like you get a pat on the back and be like, yeah, you stop that fire, because you know no one, no one knows that you stop that fire. Right, there's no reward for that. And actually, some some utilities here we've understood like don't even have a power shut off plan, Like they it's not in their emergency plan to shut off the power. There's other mitigation techniques. That's kind of the trade off there with electricity.

So let's talk for a minute about preparedness because this is the new normal, right, probably not five fires going at once, but certainly we will see more fires, more dry cartments, more fires. This is where climate change is going. This is where we're heading. Since you are in California, since you are in southern California, you're seeing the discussion move towards. For example, we know that in Pacific Palisades a lot, you know, a state farm dumped like twelve hundred policies in July. So here you have a scenario where people can't get insurance, which means they can't get mortgages, which means they maybe can't rebuild, so or they get the money, but they rebuild, but they can't they can't insure the value. So do you think there's an eye for what a new California can look like? Or do you think too soon? And what's the conversation around that.

I know those discussions are happening. I've been so close to the ground and paying attention to you know, just people sifting through their rubble and trying to say what you know was left people trying to figure out where they're sleeping tonight. You know, I've been in Altadina more than the Palisades. I haven't been in Palisades at all, but Altadena is not as wealthy of a neighborhood as the Palisades, and so you have people sleeping in their cars and you know, packed into the surviving home of the family. You know, you have people thirteen fifteen people sleeping in a home now because all these families are crammed in there because homes are lost. So yeah, I think that discussion is being is happening. It's certainly being had, and there's wondering about how LA will rebuild. It's just not something I've really been in tune with because you know, I've been out in the field.

In the field, though, are people talking about rebuilding their houses? I mean, how are they sort of processing this loss.

Yeah, it's tough. Alta Dina for example, these some of these families have lived there for decades, many generations within their homes. Altadena is a pretty diverse community. Black Hispanic families. There are you know, white families some like that have moved in recently as property values have gone up and has become kind of a more desirable place to live. You know, Altadenas is somewhat more rural than your average Los Angeles county town. People keep horses, for example. You get a lot of space, and it's on the east side. But these families that have lived there for decades have seen their home values go up astronomically. You know, some people have talked to you know, their parents bought their home for one hundred thousand dollars and now it's I think the average home values anywhere from one point two to one and a half million dollars in the area, and so that was kind of everything for them, right that was that was their generational wealth. And so now that that's gone, that's taken from them. They're not sure because like it's going to be expensive to rebuild. Even if they do rebuild again, Like we talked about you, you're not clear if they're going to be ensured. So what happened if another event like this happens again, Because it's very likely, you know, we're not in a situation where we are reversing the effects of climate change. Yeah, it's super tough. And there are people in those neighborhoods whose homes have survived, and you ask it sometimes. You know, it's also very random where the fire hits, right, because I've been on blocks where there's one or two homes that have survived and the rest of like completely been you know, incinerated. And you talk to those people and they're like, I'm lucky my home survived. But am I really lucky because I'm going to live in this neighborhood where there's nothing around me and it's going to be under construction for years, if under construction at all. So yeah, it's just it's such a tragedy.

Here you are covering this place where you grew up, basically like you're breathing the air, you're watching the sort raine from the sky. How are you handling it well?

For when I want to underline that I'm extremely lucky, Like my home was not affected. I was out of an evacuation zone, and my way working through this is and helping others is kind of reporting on it the best I can. That being said, as a resident of LA with you know, La County, with some ten million other people, I'm concerned. You know, I don't know if they are on breeding is okay, you know, I don't know if the water supply is going to be okay. I'm concerned about people finding housing in a in already like kind of stretched housing market. You know, on a personal level, I've I thought of living here for a long time and buying a home eventually and kind of settling down. I don't know if that's feasible anymore, or if that's even a reasonable thing. And that's really sad to think about when you know you've finally, you know, I've moved around a bit in my life and finally find the place that you want to come back to because this is where I'm from and in a way, and I don't know if it's a long term option.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ryan Matt.

Thank you, thanks for having me.

No mor.

Jesse Cannon Smelly.

We have an update on a thing we've talked a lot about a continuous bit of fuckera down in North Carolina with former guests of the podcast Justice Riggs. Seems that she got a pretty great victory here.

Yeah, Justice Riggs, guest of this podcast Judge in North Carolina, so they won't be able to toss and North Carolina Judge denies Republicans' request to toss sixty thousand ballots. Look, Republicans did not win this Judge ship, but they really are mad. And when Republicans don't win, they cheat, and that is what we are seeing here is they want to cheat. They want to throw out with Justice Riggs her victory in order to win and keep control over North Carolina. You'll remember that North Carolina they ran a really terrible candidate for governor, a guy called Mark Robinson. He lost, which is probably the best thing we can say about him. And Republicans are really just trying to keep control over North Carolina. But they're doing it by trying to cheat, which is really just app absolutely should not be surprising to anyone. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense. Of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.

Fast Politics with Molly Jong-Fast

Join noted author & pundit Molly Jong-Fast for irreverent humor that cuts right to the heart of our  
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 389 clip(s)