Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald"Do You Accept This Assignment?" with Mission Implausible
Ever wonder how the CIA gets an informant to trust them? Do you want to know which movies get the CIA right? Former high-level CIA operatives John Sipher and Jerry O'Shea walk Zach and Donald through how they would craft fake conspiracies to help solve real crimes. Learn what kind of person the CIA is looking for and how you could become a member.
Deb are you recording?
For Fox's sake? Just stop talking about your willies? Okay, I even talked about my penis yet, deb Wu Tang forever, Wu Tang forever. Yeah, all right, a given.
Are you ready to start the podcast?
We haven't started yet.
Well, this is it's probably started. Daniel always decides when he starts putting on the show. But I think this is all good. Content is great, so too.
How are you?
You know? What I realized is that you've got a big birthday coming up. I've been thinking I had. I just had a fucking genius idea what to get you, and I'm very excited about it.
Does it have something to do with that motion animation? Let's say, a motion control rig?
No?
Is that what you want?
No, I'm just saying it could be.
I don't think you'd use that.
You don't think I would use a motion control rig? Are you kidding me? Don't your light in magic? I know you guys are my friends. There's a mini motion control rig that you that everybody has except for me.
What is it called?
It's the mini rig?
Would you really set that up and use it?
Yeah? For sure, Like all of the stuff that I do.
If I spend some fortunate amount of money on this mini rig, and I come over your house and it's in fucking cardboard boxes, and you're like, bro, come on outside, I'm lighting a doobie. I'm gonna be so upset.
You would never have to worry about that with me. This shit's so expensive. Look, this ship is so expensivebout.
How are you talking about? Like twenty grand more?
Yeah? Like that?
Wow?
What's I want to look it up? Yeah, look it up, Daniel. It's it's the Many Many rigs. It's called Motion Control Mini rig for Donald. Anyway, Daniel's figuring out how much this rig costs. Because I love you and you are turning fifty. I didn't really have twenty grand in my budget for your birthday, but I do love you.
Well, you got Crystal horse.
I didn't get Oh that's funny, I got that conversation. We did get the horse. We did get her. Oh that's from our joint account. By the way, I sent her a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars horse.
Then, yeah, I'm going to need some of that back for this motion control rig.
All right, Well, Daniel's going to figure out how much it costs. I probably won't spend twenty grand on you, even though I love you so much. But what are you doing doing? What are the plans?
You know?
Joell Daniel Donald has a fiftieth birthday coming up?
Is that what it is?
Fifty?
Yeah?
What's the dream?
You know?
I don't really have a dream for my fiftieth. I thought the dream was a big ass party. I think my parents are coming into town, which is really cool and that'll be fun. But I don't really have a dream for my fiftieth.
Why did you turn melancholic over?
But you got to make a dream.
We got to get a whiteboard, Yeah.
You had a whiteboard. This shit. We got to create something.
I don't like this attitude.
I don't like the attitude you like your shoulders slumped, you got body?
Well, I don't got said. I don't got wifi's right now, but I definitely am. I don't know, man, I don't I'm I'm looking forward to turning fifty. I don't know how I want to turn fifty in because I don't know how. Uh, you know, anything's up for like after Christa's party, there's no party that can be thrown now.
But if you don't need to go like that. Why don't you do You couldn't. You couldn't make my party, But why don't you do something small like I did? I had twenty five people a meal at a restaurant. You got, you get a private room? Like, why not at least do that?
It's so not up to me.
I mean, Casey's planning it. You're allowed to weigh in on your fiftieth.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't know, man, you have a weird attitude about it. It's like I like to.
Work on my I like to work on my birthday. A lot of people don't like that. That's my goal is working on my birthday always. My birthday is on a weekend this year, so.
Okay, well that's not gonna happen. Is the only song need to plan something? Or is Casey planning something?
No, it's the onus. Isn't on anyone to plan anything?
Well, I'm your bestie and you got sad body when you talk about your fiftieth, so I need to step up.
Well you don't need to step up. I yeah, you guys, get on the phone. I don't think there's anything. I don't think anything's happening.
That's not acceptable. But she's a really good wife. I bet she might be cooking something up.
No, I know my family's coming in. She got, like, you know, my mom and dad are coming to visit and everything, Like.
Why don't we throw up at least, at the very least a dinner with all the people you love? What do you really want? If you could have anything? I don't mean, I don't mean an easy rig. We'll figure out how much a mini rig is. But like if you get for the party, what could the party be your.
Dream or you're asking me for a dream party. I don't have a dream party. But if I could really have something, yes, a budget for a stop motion short, that would be I want to be working.
Donald said, is to you put it to work? And okay, I feel the vibes.
You don't even want to party. You'd like everyone to contribute a budget for you to make a short film?
Why not? Fifty? I realized I don't necessarily like to get drunk, so when I get drunk.
Now, why is to be drunk? Bro I didn't want to get drunk either, So I had a brunch. I did a twenty five person brunch. No one got I mean there was booze for people that wanted mimosas or anybody. It wasn't a drunk thing, right.
I don't know, bro, I don't know why I got all melancholic. I don't know why I got all what about paintball? That's what I really wanted to do? See this so hot?
Man cares? God, you're such a fucking ere right now. I don't know who paintball? Paintball?
I would love to go.
I'm going to take your mom out with that.
I know, lace her. I don't think my mom would make it.
Would Shirley play paintball?
Hell no, she'd stay back. She'd be like, oh, you guys, go ahead.
What if what if we posted her up in like a sniper position?
She'd be like, you guys, go ahead, I'm mistake at the house.
What if we Sureley likes an occasional bit of ganja, Right, I don't know.
I caught my mom smoking weed once. It was the most awkward moment ever because she was like, she was smoking weed and she didn't want nobody like it was she was smoking, and it was at the end of a blunt and she was smoking. First of all, she was smoking a blunt and I was like, what the fuck is going on? And she was just finished.
She was like.
Getting it out, like trying, and I'm like, what the fuck. You might as well just finish the ship now, like why are you trying to hide?
Funny?
So what she wanted to get that extra.
My wish for your birthday is that we give Shirley a blunt and a sniper position at the people.
No no, no, yeah, no no no no no.
No, Daniel, Daniel's in New York. Joelle, you would come to paintball.
Yeah, and take that sniper position with the blood if it's still being offered.
Let's right, that's all right. If your mom's not going to take the blunts niner position, can Joel have that?
Absolutely? But let's go play paper. I mean, let we could go play paintball.
That was all right. That's one thing I worked out good. That's on the list. By the way, Glendale, I passed. It has a laser tag still they got old school laser tags. So fine, it's a really cool. Have you been there with you Joey.
Sixth birthday party there in Glendale.
I just keep driving by it and I'm like, I can't believe someone's top.
How big is the one in Glendale, because there's one in Sherman Oaks that is uh, you take the kids for that one, and it's a lot of fun for the kids, but not necessarily for the adult.
I want to do.
I have been to multiple laser tags.
Oh all right, so wait, Daniel, did you find out how much the mini rig costs?
I still can't find exactly what you're talking about. There's lots of motion control rigs, but like, I don't know the exact model yourself.
Here's the thing. It's an old rig and there the dude that makes it only makes a few of them every year. Well, he's one of those finicky people too, so like when you get on the phone with them, even after you've you know, struck the deal, he's like, well, I'm making a bunch for this company right now, and if there's one left over for you, I'll call you. But I want to warn you. This is about thirty grand. And you're like, yeah, okay, I get that, Sure.
I still want to I know it's thirty grand, but here's my question. Thirty grand might be like the premiere version. What if you got like.
A Siah No, no, no, this is the only version of this. It's a ten it's not even ten feet. It's like a really tiny The track is like maybe four feet and it's up. You put it on a table. The rig itself is it looks old school. It comes with an arm and an arm comes out and you put your you mount your you know, your camera on it and it it's a tiny rig. It's like a table.
And for those that don't know, this would enable you to while you're doing stuff, have the camera move and Dolly and crane up in the world of your figures.
Right right, Well, what I could do is I could do a shot with the camera doing it, and then I would remove all of the figures and redo the shot with just the camera doing it. That way, I could superimpose it all or with spaceships do flybys.
But you're not open to accepting a lesser expensive version.
There is no lesser expensive version.
I'm sure there is. That's not true. You're saying like you're basically saying, hey, man, I want to Porsche, And I'm saying, hey, what if I got you, like a really sick Miata and you're like, no Porsche or nothing.
You must you must think I'm crazy. I would never say no to a Mayata. I would never say no to any car if it was offered to me. Like, that's what I don't understand.
So what I'm telling you is you're saying I want this thing, right and it's thirty grand, And I'm saying, bro, just let me finish my sentence. And I'm saying, I'll bet with my connections. If I knew Recon, I could probably find a sick version that's not everything you want, but maybe ten grand. And you're like, I don't want that ship.
I don't think there's a ten grand version of this is my point.
You're gonna Daniel's gonna spend the rest of the episode searching one. Al right here, all right, I'm gonna go a different route then for your president already, I have a good idea.
Yo. Do we really got the CIA up on the show today?
Yeah, we have two CIA agents. We got a lot of questions for them. But before we get to them, I wanted to tell you that I finally watched Dune too. I'm so embarrassed that I didn't go see this movie in the theater.
So good.
Yeah, it is a masterpiece. I mean, it is the most is that the prettiest sci fi movie ever.
Gorgeous. It's up there, bro, it's up there.
Maybe we should say spoiler alert spoiler alert skip skip skip like a couple of minutes, because we're gonna talk about Dune two for a second.
The only thing that I didn't like was the end when he's having the conversation with the emperor. It was weird how it was lit on him. But then you pan back and then there's a bunch of same type of situations all over, and it's like, well, how did everybody hear him and hear this conversation? If the whole you know, if not only not only the planet, but everybody's you know, there's a lot of people listening at the end of him taking control of it. Right.
Well, but okay, that's a that's that's a that's nippicking. Let's talk about the production design, the trustume design, the cinematography. I mean, my jaw was on the floor. I mean, every single costume is more mind blowing than the next. If that's how what movie could possibly come along and beat that movie for production design, cinematography, costumes?
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure you could find some simple movie that could do that. Also, though, meant with beauty and touch and you know what I mean, like visual effects.
There's not a there's.
Visual effects, visual effects.
I mean I never see a movie before where I went like it's because I'm in the business. I can spot the shots. I usually I go, wow, that's pretty cool for I know what they did, and that's cool. It looks good this movie. There's not a single shot that doesn't look real.
That's true. I think I had a big budget you render something.
It was one hundred and sixty five million dollars. Wow, but it looks like it.
Man, it looks like yeah, but you know it is.
By the way, let's talk about the actors for a second. Obviously I'm biased and flows beautiful and amazing. Every single actor in that movie. I was stating there going is the best at their type. They do it whether you're walking or your Chalomey or your Rebecca what's her name? I love her.
She's amazing.
Rebecca Ferguson, you are the best of that type that is the most ball or cast.
Yeah, you got Zendaya the best of that type as a single person. I'm just saying, Man, I told you about this before that movie's fucking phenomenal.
I really am embarrassed I didn't see it on a big screen. I hope that one day they reprojected so I can go see it, But I h I did have to turn the subtitles on at a certain point. I know, like the young kids do that these days, but I couldn't understand at certain points what the fuck anybody was saying? No it's and it's also like there's so much like grunting and yelling. You're like, wait, what did he just grunt? And there's also so many of the languages right, and you're like, wait was that English or was that in the language? And that was that a key plot point? That was just grunted? You know? So I realized like, oh dude, let me try subtitles. I really don't usually don't watch movies with subtitles, but for Dune too, it did help because you're like, Okay, that was just it'll just say, like nonsensical grunting, and you're like, okay, good, I didn't miss anything that.
What's really crazy is that you can see where you can see where George Luke is got Star Wars. You can see where like there's so many different things in this movie where it's like, Wow, a lot of people took from this novel and.
I would imagine that, and I would imagine George Martin. Right, there's a lot of Game of Thrones and this.
Dude, there's everything in it. Dude, there's everything in it.
Why are you laughing, Dannal, It's just George R. George Martin is the producer for the Beatles. So when you said that, I was like, oh, George, Yes, George George R. R.
Martin's books I assumed came out were written after Dune, well after Okay, well he was definitely inspired by this.
Yeah, the sandwriting, the sandworm writing scene, amazing, Just how that scene in theater?
It wasn't that in Jedi? Didn't he put a sand what's the Jedi writing?
What's the thing?
Isn't the starlac as total bite off?
This kind of where the bite comes in is there's a lot of a bite where the chosen one, you know what I mean. There's so many things that are I mean, all comes from you could say it's from prophecies from before, mythologies from before, of courses, but like a lot of the stories that come out of doom. You can see in the first the episode one through six, it's a lot of that.
Of course, and the Force, I mean it's the Force is all over this, like he can foresee the pass and he sees the way.
And he has control over people, and he can Jedi mind trick people, and he can do all of these things like one of the powers. In the first one, him and his mom are captured and she's like, Yo, we can't get away because this motherfucker right here's death. I need you to work it so that you can get all these other cats to talk kill him. They got to kill him.
What about Sorry, this one moment it's a spoiler. If you haven't turned off yet, skip thirty seconds. What about when they cut to the future and his sister is Anya tailored and she's got a teared fucking dripping down her face and you know she's gonna be in three Yeah, Oh, I was fucking.
Good, dude. This shit is fire man. The Dune goes even way further into the future than you ever would imagine, like light years into like this planet all of a sudden becomes habitable with fucking trains and shit on it. It's fucking crazy dude.
Well, I guess I know that Florence has a big part in three and uh, that's going to be so amazing. I'm in one ticket sold. I will not miss three projected. All right, Joelle, tell us about these guests a little bit before they come in. They are they are CIA agents retired, yes, and they have a podcast now and and explain to me exactly what they do. It sounds fascinating. I have so many CIA questions.
But yeah, So John Siffer and Jerry O'Shea are their names, And I guess their job at the CIA used to be that they would create fake conspiracies and like try to work backwards and break down and understand and how like a spread of conspiracies and how they I packed like cultures and stuff. And so now they started a company. They've co founded a company together called Spycraft Entertainment where they consult with they I think they also they developed their own films in house and stuff. But they are also consultants on big projects where the CIA's history is involved or people are trying to use agents and spycraft and so they sort of like good. Yeah, So I'm excited to talk to them. There I've heard, listened to a couple of pods. They've done their funny their guy friends. So I was like, I think these guys would be a good fit for zecond Donald.
So well, let them in. They're probably in already because they're CIA agents. They've been they've been there, ready to go, all right, bring them in. They've been in the they've been in this riverside studio the whole time. And Donald.
Made about a bunch of.
Stories.
So YadA, Oh there they are, Hey, John, I j Hello, gentlemen.
Hi Jens, gentlemen, you've made your first mistake. Man, we let you guys in the room.
Poor judge of character. Gentlemen. Oh god, I'm excited to see you. We have so many questions.
For Yes, we have so many question.
Like are aliens real? Or is that a conspiracy?
Give us the scoop on aliens. Let's just start off the bat.
Let's just start out with we can either confirm nor deny. Right, We're going to answer every question. That's going to be our response.
So let's real.
That's how you start, how you started conspiracy theory?
Obviously, Wait, are you guys when you go on podcasts? I know I want to talk about what you guys are up to, obviously, but people must ask you the questions, don and I want to ask you so badly, and you're going to say, we can't. We can't answer that.
No, you'll be surprised. Now we can talk a lot.
Okay, Now, during the pandemic, aliens seem like they were coming in hard. And I remember something. I remember. I remember some funny memes, some funny memes with people like not now, aliens, we really fucked with the pandemic, can you please come back in like a year? And then there was some stuff. Then there was some stuff in Congress like really looking at at any evidence. I saw this fighter jet footage. I'm sure everybody saw that was.
Increasing what they pulled out and uh was in Mexico City with the freaking uh.
Well that was clearly fake. But there was a fighter jet thing that really stuck with me. Where this where this fighter jet pilot was just freaking out about that he was seeing. And so I wonder what you guys. Sorry if this is our first question for CIA agents, but we wanted about aliens.
Well, first of all, John, do you want to say them right on? Agents? And they can talk a little bit the show why we're doing this and all that. I say that, yeah, that would be a good way to kick it off.
Yeah, FBI people are called FBI agents, but in the CIA were called officers. Our sources we run, So we are in an espionage business and we live overseas and run spies and sources and we call them agents or sources or assets.
And so assets.
Okay, so right, But yeah, in terms of of aliens, sure, let's talk about did we have the podcast Mission Implausible And we did an episode with Michael ian Black, the comedian who apparently is very into the whole alien thing. And frankly, I had no idea how many people truly are into the whole thing. And there are quite up to date on things. There is a office at the Department of Defense at the Pentagon who studies these things. The number of senators and congressmen have been pushing to provide money to get to the US government to put out what it knows about unidentified flying objects or they call them UAPs now whatever that whatever that is, unidentified aerial phenomenon.
Or something like that.
And so there's great interest in it.
But but but let me set the stage for this. So the Mission Implausible, which is the podcast we're doing. We John and I as former agency office. We've rolled our cover back so we can say that now we were conspirators. We did conspiracies, but little ones, like a conspiracy like I work for the State Department, or if you're going to approach you North Korean missile scientists, she can't say, hey, I'm a CIA guy. You have to come in and say I am. I am a German businessman and O vish to warcris you y'ah. You know, we will make money to guess, and so we make little conspiracies and we're looking at like big conspiracies, and we're talking about like we've done conspiracies. We know how they how they don't work, mostly because most of the times they fucked up. They're smaller the better, and so we're looking at bigger conspiracies. So we're probably going to talk now about aliens and you know, all these big conspiracies, and we'll give you sort of like what it's really like inside of the agency and like how like we see the world really working. So bring on the aliens. There are aliens, by the way, but they're they're Guatemalans.
Aliens always come to America. What's that about? Like, how come America as always the number one spot you don't have to hear about Russia and saying listen, we got the aliens over here.
Man, I'm sensing you guys. Obviously aliens are probably not under the purview of the CIA, but we just thought you might want to share some secrets with us.
If there's any stories that you have, we'd love to hear them.
We'd love to tell you, but there's no way we could kill both you and your audience. It's listening in if you tell the truth, right, you know.
Well, Tonny Donald, you bring that up, And that's one of the questions. We thought we were being clever, and we were asking Michael Ian Black because he's a big UFO follower. We don't know much about it at all, and uh I said the same thing, like, well, you know, why are they all come in here? Like if if this, if there's a phenomena out there that comes to earth, why what does the US government have to do with it? Why they'll come to the United States? And he schooled me like, oh, it's not true. They're all over and these other places have reported things, and so.
So we'll have to have Michael ian black On to ask about aliens. Yeah, let me ask you guys a question. I would imagine a lot of people in our audience would want to know. Is it seems like a very cool, exciting job. How do how does the CIA recruit people? What is what is the what are the criteria for becoming a CIA What did you say the term was an agent officer?
I mean obviously good looks and charm, right, I mean that goes without saying it's not true.
Yeah, well charm has definitely got to be a part of it, right.
Oh yeah, well it depends. So the CI, you know, that is the nation's intelligence organization. It's part of a larger intelligence community that includes the Parmer Defense and then essay in all those places. But so the CIA has a big analytic codre. So the people that are looking for there are almost like, you know, university professors or experts on things.
I mean, I mean people in the field undercover the cool part the James Bond shit.
Right, So that's what we did.
We spent our career overseas living in embassies undercover. In our cases, we pretended to be State Department diplomats while we're overseas, and what they're looking for. In fact, nowadays most people just apply online on to the website. But what they're looking for is a variety of things. Obviously, people who are interested in foreign cultures, that like people and like foreigners, and developing relationships, because that's what we do, is we meet people overseas and try to develop a set of trust with them so that they might actually have secrets that they're willing to share with us. So they're looking for, you, people who like foreign cultures, that are interested in living overseas, that are pretty good at speaking languages, that are interested in the issues of the day, that right well, but also that have you know, they're comfortable operating on the streets under potential surveillance. A spatial awareness to determine whether they're under surveillance. Used to be when the CI first started. There was from the OSS days in World War Two. The idea was you're looking for essentially a PhD who could win a bar fight.
That is what they used to say.
That's cool, So let's talk about the mission of the CIA, right, because you your people into what they need to do. So if the US government has a problem, right, or any democratic goverment it has an issue, it looks to this toolkit, right, and it's like, oh, this is an issue with the military should do this, or the diplomat should do this, or treasury should do this. But when it has an intractable issue that nobody knows how to solve, right, like you know, Iranian missiles or a North Korean nuclear program, or you know, how do you get inside the the Kremlin? Nobody knows how to do that, so they turn to the CIA. So we get the hardest jobs that no one else knows how to do. So we recruit people who are able to deal with ambiguity, able to deal with failure because a lot of what we do is like I don't know if you sposed to swear in the show, but really hard, right, it's.
Really fucking hard. We don't know.
And the thing is we don't know how to do it either, but we work to figure it out. So we're people who, like often are outside the box rule abiders, but we understand you know that we can't. We got to think outside of the box. So the FBI is law enforcement, they're cops, and we're essentially robbers, right. We spionage is a legal yea.
So it's all fair in love and war. Baby, Let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words that. So you're you're undercover and then you're trying to recruit just from watching TV shows, you're trying to recruit assets, right, So who will feed you information? Sometimes they know they're helping you for some reason, and sometimes they don't know they're helping you.
Right, Almost always know because what you want that person to be motivated to do what they want to do. What we want to do is develop a relationship of trust with a source of someone who has accessed the secrets that the US government can't get any other way, and then have that person work with us over time and maybe move up in their bureocracy so that eventually we have a very senior person who's providing us the secrets that presidents need to know. And so you know, there's occasions that would work on terrorism or something that the person might not know who we are, Like Jerry said, we might pretend to be a German or pretend to be something else, but usually our sources know exactly what they're doing.
Right, So I'll just give you my personal journey. Right, this might surprise your audience. Like I'm an ex hippie, right, you see my age, but like I was, even those hippies are anymore, I know, I.
Know, I know we do of a certain age, right, a certain age.
But I like I lived in Europe. I worked on a you know, it's construction site. I worked as a waiter in Germany. I smuggled cars into Iran. I got thrown into jail and around for smuggling cars. For a little bit. I was smoking dope in Afghanistan. I was a disciple in the Seguld and temple hiked in the Himalayas. I like hitchhiked through Africa, lived in the Middle East, lived in Mexico. And then I like I got to grow up, right, I mean, got a feed.
With this was all about being I thought this was before then I went.
Then then I showed up in grad school, like I got to you know, and degree in international business management. Right, I gotta feed myself. And and I got a letter in the mail and just said, hey, basically, you're a weird dude. We've heard about you from a professor I think narked on me and they said hey, and I thought, well, there's no way they'll accept me, right because like I was going to try meetings in Germany as a student and smoking.
They probably should, But in the end they.
Said no, no, we're looking for people with different backgrounds, who problem solved differently. And and I have to say, I I I love my thirty three years So what was it training like?
Then? Then they you know where where?
What is it? You got to become right, you've got to become a lethal and you got to become.
A legal agent.
You can't so John was a trainer. John actually worked out at the.
But there's no way you can go under cover and not be able to protect yourself.
Like, why would Well tell us about that?
Is it?
Is it bullshit that you have You said you have to win a bar fight. But you know in the movies obviously I know you guys advise on movies. Agents Sorry c A A fucking officers are always represented as being badass fighters. And do you go to training like that? You're shaking your head, John.
No, I mean, in fact, for the most part, I never carried a gun or needed a gun in war zones and things. Obviously we have to protect ourselves. Jerry is one of these guys riding horses in Afghanistan. I'm looking for and loud and in that case he was with special forces carrying weapons and things. But for most of our career is not at all. Again, we're trying to just develop relationships with people who have secrets and see if we can't get those secrets. So, you know, it's more mundane in that sense. I mean, obviously US government needs secrets from around the world, and there are dangerous places. So we if we're in a dangerous place, we are trained how to protect ourselves there, how to drive spin cars, jump out of planes, shoot things we need to. But that's not the basis of the job. Obviously, movies love that piece of it.
That's so, that's what the audiences love.
Well, yeah, exactly, and it's not so. But by winn bar fight, it's really more talking our way out of it, right, Yeah.
Out of a bar fight, you would be perfect. Don't get in a bar fight.
There you go.
I've made that mistake a couple of times where I've gotten where the fight's about to happen and I've found a way out of that thing.
And you're smart, So that's what they do. And they when they train us on weapons. For the most part, we're trained to what they call get off the X, which is another nice way of saying run away, like we were trained. You know, military they run to the fight. Their job is to use their weapons. Our job is the last resort if we have to use a weapon. But in general we're talking to.
Run out of the get out of the.
X of I like that.
I'm gonna try that expression.
I have a secret, Then what's your secret? Is it Putin?
We already know it, man, we already know your secret.
Is it Putin?
Is what Putin?
Is that Putin? Or is that somebody else is Putin? Putin? You know what?
Yes, it's Putin.
And I served in Moscow and Russia have dealt with Putin and a number of other KGB guys around him. But yeah, I think nowadays, when you become a dictator, you start being afraid of your own people. And so I think there are some body doubles out there now, which you know, like Sodam Hussein and other people like that when they worried about getting shot.
So I think I would do that if I had infinite money and so many people wanted to kill me, I would certainly say, go hire some lookalike, start with Dax Shephard.
Start with Dax, and then get see.
How much Dax costs, because that we can. You can do that right off the bat. He can.
And if it's not him, you got to go after.
Ray ram Monol you fucking asshole.
You're right, And how do you have character assassination?
So it's just as bad, right, Well, what about.
The what about the secret tools that we see in the movies? Are any of those real?
Like, uh, you know the screen or oil slick, No, that's fucking that's the video game. We love SpyHunter, Yeah, not Spy Hunter.
No, But I mean, like, is all that bullshit that when I think of the CIA, I think of them using cool secret tools? Is any of that accurate?
Cameras well?
Likeny Kramer's for surely? So what Jerry said is, you know, our job is to, if there's a problem, to figure out how to solve the problem. And usually we try to solve it by finding a person inside at an institution that we can suborn or work with or what have you. And if we need tools to do that, if you need to listen to their phones, if you need to take surreptitious pictures, if you need to surveil them. You know, we do have people who can get us the tools and fancy things we need, but for the most part, again it's just building relationships. We don't we don't need those things. And in fact, when we debrief a source, you know that we've we've made sure we're not under surveillance, and we meet them secretly in a place to get information, to share the secrets with us. You know, we often we don't record that. We just usually listen and remember it and go back.
Why because you're worried you'd be caught. I mean, why not record it? You're worried that they'll pat you down like they do in the movies and be like it depends where you're recording me U asshole.
Well, that's that's for sure.
If you're in Moscow and you meet someone and you know on their way back here, you know you're caught or something, that's certainly a concern. But also you know, just yeah, I mean, we don't need to train. We're trained to elicit information and remember what it is and write it down. So it's better not to have extra stuff.
I want to commit because it's a really good question. Sack on the high tech stuff. So, yeah, some of the high tech stuff exists, but increasingly and ironically, the more high tech there is, the more we go stone age, right, anything technical.
Like if I send you a coded.
Message that no one can break if you're my asset, what if ten years from now someone can break that, you're screwed. But if it's not recorded and it's not put on video anywhere, if nobody sees it, it didn't happen.
You have to sort of future proof everyone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like that there might be a code breaking app in five years in that person, going.
Back to the nineteen fifties.
Yeah, Like you don't want to use your phone drop to be tracked, but.
The CIA, you can't CIA get into anybody's phone, like if they want to.
That's more the NSA's job often helped by the CIA, so overseas, not anyone's phone. I don't think. I think there's a lot of very skilled people who can get into get into those kind of places. But we can come up with an operation. If we need to get into a Iranian scientist's computer, we would try to come up with a means to do that, and that's essentially what our job is.
And so yeah, we do that.
But it isn't as if there's some dude sitting back here like and nobody's clicking on his computer and they can't get into anything in the world.
And on a phone, if you do a phone tap, you're talking like huge resources to listen to somebody's phone and actually understand it, especially in a foreign language, because we're not allowed to tap us phones. So it takes like a team of like, sure you're not Jerry, Sure.
You're not Jerry.
We have.
Sure Jerry wink emoji.
Americans are boring. Who wants to listen to their freaking phones? It's all low porn and ship.
I think that it's possible for the CIA to get into anybody's phone, at least in the country.
Possible.
Why would you want to.
You're not supposed to operate in the country, right, You're all overseas.
No, they can operate anywhere. It's as long as it's it's just.
But is it is it foreigner related?
Like?
Where do you not overlap?
We are foreign intelligence operation. Our job is to collect foreign intelligence from China and Russia around.
So you can't do it. You can't you can't get Okay, thank you there.
So, yes, So we operate overseas. Our job is to recruit foreigners to collect foreign intelligence. However, we do have people in the United States who work with the FBI. So the FBI's job is to track foreign counterintelligence counter intelligence operators that are in the United States, and so we often work with them, and we sometimes work with the US companies that have relationships overseas to collect foreign intelligence. So we do have people in the United States that work on They're not we're not looking Americans. We're looking to cru If there's an Iranian scientist studying nuclear physics at cal who might go back into that thing, it would be nice to meet them before they go back.
Right, let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words. I have a question, would the CIA ever hire a forty nine year old actor? Because this sounds very exciting? Is it too late for me?
I bet you, I bet you. There are actors in the industry that are already working for the CIA.
Zach Okay, Well, I would like to audition. I'll do a monologue, I'll do whatever.
You're very smart to make your money first and then join the CIA.
I'll tell you you got good benefits.
Is that if you're like really in deep and you and you and you get some bonus. If you're like in deep and you do something amazing and then you come back or they like hear ja, That's what.
I was going to ask you. That was my question. Has anybody ever gone into deep?
Like?
Is anybody Donald Joson to Jerry? I do like to go deep, but as have you guys? Ever do you know of anybody like well, do you know anybody's like Yo, Sally went too deep man, she fell in love with fucking the dude. And or Jim went too deep he fell in love with her. Did that ever happen? Yes, but please tell us yes.
Yes, no, no, the yes is and this is this is actually serious and tragic. Sometimes this job can be like an addiction, right. I mean, we have a lot of failed marriages, We have a you know, alcoholism is an issue because people are like you, just you work at your job and you believe in it, and I think you give up. You know, we miss we miss the birth.
Of our kids.
Sometimes we miss things and so yeah, I think I think we also have a very low attrition rate, like people never leave the agency once you're in. Once you people are like I love this by and rug.
What Donald's asking is, have you guys seen real, real life experiences of people falling in love or getting too close to the person that they're tailing.
So in general, we don't. It's interesting if you see movies and stuff the ideas we use sex to compromise me.
John, you're handsome. I bet you used how many I bet them?
Russian girls was all over here?
How many.
Get John to tell you his Russian girls story?
John, I don't see a Russian girl story? And does it have anything to do with going too deep?
John's like, how do I answer this question? How do I get So?
We do not use sex because or compromise, because the problem is we're trying to develop relationships with people that they trust us and their supports so they e spy for us for years. If you compromise someone, they're looking to get out of it, or they're looking to screw you with the first opportunity. And I'll tell you my Russian it's a little it's a little long. I'll tell you real quick. I'll try to do the quick version. When I was in Moscow, I was at ciaf S, I was undercover working in the embassy. And I met this beautiful girl at a party. It was a German diplint was having this party, and we are not allowed to date Russians because the Russians use people against us, They try to run sources, they try to make us have sex with people so that they can then.
Yeah, use that must be hard because they they seduce you.
And so I was single and I met this woman and she was a concert pianist and she was just stunning. And we were't allowed to date Russians at the time. And I met her at a party and I said, well, you know, maybe she's Ukrainian. So I said, let's meet try work, trying to work tomorrow for brunch. And so I drove home that night from the party, not with her, and and I had my surveillance that followed me everywhere. I'll explain that to you later, like Russians follow you and they have audio and video in your house where they watch everything you do. And so I got home and I realized, yeah, this is stupid, she's Russian. This thing. So the next morning I went to the brunch with her. My surveillance cars followed me this fancy hotel. I had this brunch and I said, listen, I'm really sorry. My embassy discourages us having relationships to the Russians. You know, I think it's really nice to meet you and have brunch, but I'm going to be unable to see you again. And she got really like upset, like what's wrong with your embassy? The Cold War is over. This doesn't make any sense, you know, why can't young people meet each other? I said, listen, I'm sorry, I understand. Fast forward about a week later, I get a call in the embassy and it's snowing. It's the embassy is writing an old downtown Moscow, and she called, can you meet me outside my conservatory? I have something to tell you. And I was like, oh, Christy in Moscow. I was going to set you up a side. I said, oh, what's happening here? So I did so I have to. At the end of the day, I was like seven at night, it's dark, I'm driving home, it's all snowy, and my surveillance cars are following me into the old part of Moscow and she's standing out in front of her conservatory and on the sidewalk in a big, long fur coat. And so I got out to see her and I'm like, Okay, what's going on. This could be weird, And she said, listen, I just want you to know that I won't date you either. After I met you, the cage came to my house. They threatened my parents. They told me I had to date you, I had to sleep with you, and they told my parents they would lose their jobs unless I continue to do that. And I now realize you're right. Your country is right. My country is still thinking in the old way. And uh, you know, I understand why you did that now. And I was like, no, man, I like you more now.
But having to sleep with John right, good point.
So that's to give you a sense of how the Russians are, the intensity of them trying to stop what American diplomats, American intelligence officers are doing. They're willing to use anybody, their own citizens included.
I am, that's that's incredible. Yeah, I'm sure that a lot of officers must fall to that, even though they've been briefed on it. You know, the powers of sexual attraction can are can be very.
That's why we don't use it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm saying that they must.
Jerry's married to a foregner. So if we meet a foreigner, not Moscow is unusual because they use it the Intelligence Service, Security Service against us. If we meet a foreigner. We can date foreigners, but we have to report it for counterintelligence purposes or can't be used against us. So if I meet am single and I meet a foreign woman and I start dating or I just have to write to Washington and tell everything about her and they look and to see if there's any information on them or whatever. And so that's that's the process there. And so a number of agency people and also Stayed, Parma, Tiplants and other people marry foreigners.
But when you.
Propose to marry them, you have to then break the news to them where you really work, that you work in the CIA, and they have to become they have to agree to become American citizens, and they have to take a polygraph, so you have to if they.
Can't being able to tell a woman that you're like, I have to tell you something, and she's like, like, I work for the CIA. I'm a CIA officer, and I mean I just feel like Donald we should use. We should be using that line anyway in our own line.
So a big care careful bro, be careful bro, counter intelligence.
Listen. You might think that I'm an actor. I understand why you would think that about the.
Actors are.
Actually work for the CIA. I'm undercover as a as an actor.
A friend of mine he was in Germany. He was dating a German woman and he wanted to, you know, he filled out the paperwork. She was fine. It's just you know, she wasn't a spy except to get him. And so he takes her through these this romantic evening. Uh, the son's going down and they go up to these all these vineyards are bottle wine, some cheese and bread, and I think she suspects that he's gonna like propose, and he sits down and he says, I need to talk with you. This is really serious, he says. So the first thing I need to tell you, he says, is I work for the CIA, and I want you to marry me. And she faints like God, and she's like, He's like, oh my god, you know the CIA thing it like, and so he like wakes her, wakes, she comes, she comes to and he goes are you okay? He says, I'll resign from the CIA if you want, and she goes, no, I thought you were gonna tell me you were gay.
And just like what he says, well, you always put palmade in your hair and you dressed nice, and I thought maybe you were bye and like.
She's like, I was so certain that was what it was.
And and he says no, and she goes.
Oh, you just I just work with this.
And she's like, oh, that's no problem right there, still married. She's like, no, no issue.
That's funny. I'm fine that we could get assassinated. I just don't want you to be fine.
That's a good question. Have you ever seen someone get Have you ever been like next to the dude that got caught and looking at him like, shut the fuck up, Shut the fuck up, shut the fun up, say my name.
Well, no, we're usually because we work in embassies overseas under the diplomatic cover. If we're with a source and get caught, you know, we get kicked out of the country. So to us, people say, oh, it's brave or whatever. You know, the brave people are the sources that work for us, because those guys are committing espionage and they get arrested, they go to prison, they get shot, their family gets arrested. And so our job is to protect those people.
What's their incentive? You give them? You give them money? Is that their incentive?
No? Rarely?
Sometimes why why did these why are these brave people put their lives on the line.
I'll give you one story that covers both what they're facing and why. But I'm sort of mixing two stories. But I won't say the country. But one guy was a real patriot of his country, loved his country. I'm not going to say where. He loved his country. And he and Yeah, he would meet, He and I would meet, and eventually he says to me, I need to borrow a thousand dollars and I'm like, okay. He knows I'm CIA, by the way, and I know he's an intelligence officer with his country and we're working together on a common thing, but we don't trust each other, which is another weird angle on this. And he says, look, you know what you're thinking, because you're a CIA guy, You're not going to fucking recruit me, right, I'm not recruitable, but I need the money. And I said sure, but I can ask why, and he says, well, my daughter needs an operation. And in the country where it was, the medical care isn't very good, and I want to get a doctor with more training. And I'm like, okay, but why don't you borrow like fifteen hundred dollars and get like a real, you know, decent medical care. He goes, no, no, this is good enough. It's it's just a basic thing on you know, it's a stomach operation. It's it's pretty run of the mill because his country's health care industry had sort of broken down. His his insurance didn't really work because it was all corrupted in this country. And so later I met him, and I have daughters too, and I brought him some beanie babies and you know, a video from a Disney film. And I see him and I say, hey, you know, how's it going. And he's got a bag with him and in the bag he's on the top of it or some beanie baby I'd given him from before for his daughter and who was five. And he hands me the bag and he says, no, no, this is for you. I said, no, no, keep on until she gets better. And he said, my daughter died on the operating table. She bled to death. He says, because we don't have medical care because the president and my boss stole all the insurance money and I can't get And he said, he said, that's it. He said, I am a patriot, I love my country. My government has betrayed my country. You know, this is pretty serious shit. This is like wrong. And he says, I'm in right. I'm going to use you CIA as my weapon of revenge, like making it right. There's shit you need to know. And he says, we're all over you, like people you know who are working with you, they work for us, and I'm going to tell you who they are. So fast forward, sort of a blend in the story. But we're driving through through the night at nighttime. I pick him up at a place and we're driving along and we're talking and there's a surprise checkpoint in front of us. So there's militia, guys wearing the sun you know, the mirror, sunglasses at night. Weapons, they're high. And we ride into this thing and I'm like, oh fuck and go. I don't smoke, but I've got a carton of cigarettes. Ride into this checkpoint and I give the head. I'm like, hey, man, you know, nice night. Here's some cigarettes American diplomat and they let me through and he's sitting next to me, this guy. And as we drive through, I look at him and I'm like, that was that worked? He pulls out a maker off and he says very serious. He says, they wouldn't take us alive, and I'm thinking, fuck us, Like I got diplomatic community. All they do to me is like throw me out of the country. But he would be executed, right, So so it's a it's a serious thing, and it's a it can be, but it's.
It sounds like the CIA and other country is what we're talking about, Zach. The they're the ones that are freaking like, I'm gonna sleep with you, I'm gonna shoot you ass, I'm gonna do all the things that y'all aren't willing to do. Y'all are like Batman and fucking you know what I mean, or like Superman and everybody else is like the Vigilanti that's willing to do anything in everything.
Yeah, James Bond, you know, keep in mind he was English, so.
That's why he was able to sleep with all these women.
Yes, maybe the id English and I five has different rules they're allowed to have, Like.
You can fuck and you can shoot anybody you want.
That's what you learn. That's what you learn on day one. Hey, guys, before we start stretching and doing some exercises, you guys are allowed to fuck whoever you want.
Democracy start allow that and we're gonna.
Give you an Aston Martin. Right, Hey, guys, just try out your Asston Martins and then meet back here for stretching.
All right, That sounds that sounds I'm sorry, Jay, but that sounds like the most dangerous thing ever. Man, I'm sorry. I Like, it's great to be an actor and to tell lies in front of a camera and everything like that and get paid to do that. Ship, but to go into a foreign country and then make up a completely new identity and have to stick to the bible that you've created so that you don't get caught out there, or to go there and nobody else can know that you're CIA, but trust one person to tell them. Listen, I'm CIA, hook me up. That sounds like the most dangerous thing on the planet to me. And I don't know why anybody would ever want to do that without some form of protection and or you know what I mean.
Yeah, but most CIA officers take a cut in pay to do this, right, I mean, with our backgrounds and things like that, we could have gone into banking or Wall Street and they.
Just four five times. It's the thrill, right, No, it's the mission.
Like you know, we feel that we're working on the issues that matter, right, so whatever. Right now, you can imagine what's happening in Israel, what's happening in Ukraine, what's happening in Iran, and North Korea is developing nuclear weapons. We're trying to find the answers the questions that the administration needs to make smart policy. Now, they don't always make smart policy, even if you bring them good information. That's a different thing altogether. But you know, we feel like you're doing something that matters, and the people who are helping you are risking their lives because they believe in the United States. They believe the United States can help them because their country is either greedy, corrupt, you know, or violent or what have you. And they're working with us to try to fix things for their family and their country. And that's that's pretty heavy stuff.
It's fun and I know your audience is going to think like, oh, it's CIA, so CIA, let's get up to the front. CIA has got skeletons in its closet, right, it's a It's an organization made up of people. So we have fuck ups, we get things wrong, we make mistakes.
We're not perfect.
You know, you can look back in history and there's all sorts of things that, like back in the forties, fifties and sixties that we shouldn't have done that I think are immoral and wrong. But you know, like that's sort of the way it is.
What is the podcast that you guys do. As we wrap up, tell us about your show.
It's called Mission Implausible. And the notion was, like Jerry said, you know, we do. You know, we were in a certain sense where conspiracies oversea, we were trying to hide our real intentions from those that were tracking us and following us, so we did small sea conspiracy. So the idea is we're going to look at conspiracy theories and try to dissect them and interview people. And you know, it's similar to your programming. It's mostly lighthearted and sort of banter. And we've looked at Bill Gates microchips, we've looked at Kem Trail's Jewish space lasers. We've done Hunter Biden's laptop. We've done Vana Syndrome, We've done UFOs, We've done the deep State, under dead, Illuminati, living under.
Have you done Ken John un Is that really him? Or is he dead? And somebody else is running the country? Like what's going on?
If you know something, we can have you on to talk about.
I don't know anything. All I know is what I hear in the media, and this it sounds like it sounds like the media is part of this whole conspiracy machine that's going on. Click.
Thank you guys. The podcast is called Mission Implausible. You guys are so interesting and and thank you for you.
Love to have you back for a part too.
At some point if.
You guys should go do a little recount on aliens and come back, it would be great.
We weren't too helpful on that.
No, it's all right. We appreciate you. Thank you so much.
Let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words. That was great.
That was they were actually great, man, they were you know. I wish they would have answered the alien question.
Well, they don't know anything about that, because I don't think you know, for some reason, you and I both thought the CIA would have alien information, but I think it's not their department.
Well then we need to find out who does have this, Joelle.
Can you book the guy the night manager of Area fifty one the interview? Are you kidding me?
Let me see what I could do.
I wish you could book the fighter jet pilot that if you got you know the thing I'm talking about, the dude just look on YouTube with the guy. If the audience, if you don't know what I'm talking about, just look up, like what's it called?
He tracked it?
Oh yeah, look up UFO tic tack on YouTube and this fighter jet.
But I have a question. How big was the Actually it's not the size of a tic tac obviously, but him trying to pin it with it right.
The size of a tick tack. He sees it, and he's he's following it, and.
Nobody doesn't see it outside the window. He sees it in the computer, I thought, And then he locks.
On you know, he's just on the and no, it's not a computer. It's his goggles with night vision, I believe.
And then he locks onto it with the goggles.
Right, and he's freaking out. He's like, look at this thing. Look at this thing's moving. He's freaking out, and he's like.
I wonder how I wanted to the size of that thing. I wonder what the.
Side I think in your mind you were like you questioned whether it was the actual size of.
A I knew it wasn't the size of a ticktack, because that wouldn't make sense.
How would funny would it be if aliens finally invade and they're like they come in the size of a real tick tack. They're like, we're here to take over.
And but it's but it's kajillions of them.
Right, but they all like they land their little tik tak and they're like, we're getting out, getting out.
We'd win for a little bit, but it would be like Gulliver's travel away. We'd be fucking stuck on the ground and everything they can get us eventually.
I gotta tell you, I think I would really love to ride one of those dune.
Snakes, the worm, the sandworm.
Yeah, the sandworm. I would love to I would love to fucking get my clippers in there and ride it. You're that's what it must be for Like Casey when she has sex with you.
Wait are you calling? You're calling my penis sandworm?
Yeah, she like has this case you have giant like clippers that she clips in to ride it. Yeah, you should role play, Lisa, guy, you should role play that you're right that she's riding your sandworm and have her yell about it like that. That's not gonna get you for your birthday. I'm gonna get casey two of those fucking extender claw clicking worm riding.
Things to click onto my sandworm. Yeah right, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know how well to.
Get her a thumper. I'm gonna get a little thumper that you put in the vision. All right, everybody, that's our show. Thank you for tuning in. We love you, we appreciate you. Be safe out there would be kind five, six, seven, eight.
Stories show we made about a bunch of times and nurses.
He said, he's a story next.
So yea here, yea here Arts for Freehobies and Dano
