Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and DonaldOn this week's episode, we speak to the creator of One Year No Beer, Andy Ramage. Ramage, a casual drinker, woke up one day and wondered what life would be like if he stopped drinking for a year. And it did more for him than dieting, working out, or meditating. In fact, it changed the way he looked at life forever.
He's in that sweatshirt. Man, does he love that sweatshirt.
It looks very cozy. I don't play.
I know, and it's Disney, and I know you love Disney, But that dude rocks that sweatshirt almost every podcast.
At least some times. I imagine he goes to that sweater.
That is his go to. If people saw a video of this podcast, you well, they would see that we change our outfits. Yes, but Donald is almost always in a Mickey Mouse hoodie.
I'm gonna call it his podcasting sweater from now on. Yeah, it has cute little ears on the top of it.
You know, mister Rogers changes into his outfit of each show. Donald grabs his Mickey Mouse hoodie with the hood and for the audience who's listening, the hoodie has little ears on it, so it's very cute.
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
Yeah. I wonder if he sings that as he puts on his Mickey Mouse hoodie before.
Each show, it changes from his loafers to his inside shoes.
Yeah, he puts He takes off his Jordan fores and puts on some uggs.
Oh my god, what are the things we are allowed to talk about now.
I don't even know what to do. There's so much are you recording? Yeah, I got so much to say to you don't even know where to begin.
Yo, dude, Like, what are we allowed to talk about?
You can talk about, Well, you as just a SAG member can't really talk about jack shit. I, as a Writer's Guild member, can talk about how good of the movie A Good Person is and everyone should check it out. If they haven't got to see it, you should, as I want been meaning to tell people forever I could, I couldn't. It's on airplanes, it's on it's everywhere now, and please check it out if you happen to miss A Good Person. I have my lips have been duct taped. As a good member of my guild, right, but as the writer director, I am now allowed to tell you to please check out A Good Person. You can rent it everywhere. It's really good. If you want a good cry on an airplane, which is the best place to cry to a movie, I highly recommend it. Well, it's sorry, Donald, you're not allowed. Well, you can comment on the writing of it, Donald, I think right, I.
Can say I can say that it is well written, thank you well directed, Thank.
You sir, thank you. I love you, I miss you.
I miss you too.
I wish I could tell you a scrappiness.
Yeah, you know what. This weekend, I coached my son to AH championship at Grassroots sixty five at a Grassroo three sixty five championship and Anaheim and I yelled a lot. I did a lot of yelling.
But they won, and you were so stoked and it was your dream come true.
They won. He had a good championship game, which is great because the week started off a little iffity dippity, you know for him, and he played through it. And it was hard to coach him as a dad and get him to play through it because you know, I want to be sensitive to it. But I also got to play coach as well.
But you want me too hard on him because my dad was a little too hard on my sister in swimming and she eventually was like fuck this, I'm out.
Well, the great thing is that he loves it and so when I push him, it motivates him.
Well, were you stats, Donald?
His stats weren't great this weekend. So here's the thing. He's been having really good basketball tournaments at this spot where we go because he goes there a lot. He plays on the As of right now, they're the number one team in the West Coast region and they're ranked like eight or something like that in the nation as far as his age group goes now the Inglewood guard Dogs, right, but they didn't play this weekend. He played with his Sports Academy team, which is another team that's really good. It's an eleven U team and he's playing up with that one, and they went down there and they won the gold Chip. But his stats were just all right, and he thought he was going to go down there and do like, you know, because it was his home turf. He thought he was going to go down there and shake him, bake and everything like that. But it's a team game and he couldn't do that, and so, you know, it was just it was a rough weekend for him.
But he's still you want.
He turned up in the finals, and I'm proud of him. I'm proud of him, and I'm proud of the boys.
I hope if I have a kid there is into the thing I'm into as your son is with yours.
Well, that'd be really awesome if you had a kid who was in a musical theater.
Yeah, oh my god. If I had a kid that loves going to musicals and he was like, Dad, gotta see Dad, we gotta go see Merrily. We roll along on Broadway. It's fucking amazing. You know, it's you know, Jonathan Groffson, and we gotta go. I'd be like, I love your son, Dad. It's a Sonheim play and the story actually goes backwards in time. Shut up, son.
I really can't talk about anything else.
You can't, as a SAG member talk about promote any anything that you're enjoying watching. No, no, sorry, it'll be over soon. I think everyone seems to think it's gonna it's gonna end soon. I had the over on all of this. That's a sports betting term. Everyone. I really thought, good, thank you, thank you, my Google day. I thought this was going to go to the New Year. And I'm so happy that the Guild got everything they wanted and that they have a deal. And I think SAG is gonna follow soon. And Donald really it would be to be able to plug all his Star Wars shows.
It would go You could talk about it. Aren't you allowed to talk about it?
I'm sure you want to talk about a Shoka, but I don't watch it and I don't know anything about it.
What you call it?
What is it a shoka?
Lest for me? I can't say, but you can.
See the title. What's it called?
Asa?
I'm sorry, I don't watch Ahsoka. By the way, I gotta say something. Do you? You don't watch Black Mirror?
Right?
You don't watch anything I send you?
Do you so frustratedly watched dog? Listen?
Man, listen if I What frustrates me so much amongst the many things of you being my best friend is that when there's things I know that you will love, like, oh my god, this is so donald. He will love this like The Boys the show, for example.
Dude, you're so geeked right now? Hold on, cut the bullshit, because this is where we're going with it. Did you watch the Black Mirror thing?
No?
Did you watch the Boys thing?
The GENV thingug me?
Yeah, motherfucker, I know where this is going.
I know where this is going, Joel, did you see it?
No?
It's my on my next to watch list. I'm so excited. I've heard nothing but great thing.
You can't say it's on your next to watch list? Joelle, I'm not a member.
She's not a member of saying, oh my god, you guys are killing me. Right, so you guys, you gotta watch. If you love the Boys, you gotta watch gen G It's really good. It's kind of like X men ish to the boys, Like it's about like the young kids that are trained to be the new superheroes.
Yeah.
So, any I'm watching the show gen V and they like, give me the shout out. This girl is like, yeah, I got a part in a new show. It's a Marvel. It's basically like a Marvel. It's like a what's that show? But the sitcom is the Marvel show WandaVision. Yeah, it's like a shout out to WandaVision kind of show. And she's like, yeah, Zach Braf is directing. We're friends, and I'm just sitting here like, wait, what what did It was the weirdest thing, very surreal.
That is nuts. That feels good though, But.
Anyway, the show is very good.
Maybe you should be directing some boys.
I know, listen if anyone from the Boys is listening. I love the show. I love gen V. Please think of me. I love it. It's so well written.
They're directing. Slave might even be full this year or close to full this year.
I imagine they're done or they got to be done.
It's a new season.
But anyway, it's so good. Check out the boys. The other thing I watched I was gonna say about the Black Mirror thing. Donald, there's this episode, right, it's Anthony Mackie to what, Joelle, did you see this one with the guys who are going to the VR street Fighting Game and start hooking up. No, oh, my god, the guy actor from Moonlight who's genius and uh and Anthony Mackie right down, they're best friends, right, and one's about it's like you and me. That's why he's going to make you laugh because like they're like best friends. One's married and has kids, and he's his life is a little bit like he's a bit bored in his life. The other's bachelor still but he's sort of dissatisfied in his life. And it's like in the future, right, So they get like this street fighter game, remember like the like Tekin, right, but it's a VR. So when you play, you are the person and you feel the punches, right, and one one decides to be like this ripped Asian guy, right, and one decides to be like super hot Asian check like she's so beautiful, right, and they go, let's play do this the newest thing like we used to like when we were in college. We got to play. But it's full on VR. You feel the punches, you feel every sensation. Right, they go into the world of the VR game, right, and they start like fighting like this is so crazy, and you see them when they're in their VR state, they're like like the matrix. They're like shifting because they can feel the punches and everything. And then they just look at each other and they just start hooking up. They start making out because they're both so hot, right, like the ones like the ten they're both ten out of ten. Looks, Yes, he's incredible, and they just start like hooking up because they're both so attracted to the avatar. But they're feeling the feelings on their couches in their houses.
Yeah, so who's the bottom.
So then they start realizing like, oh my god, this is cheating. And the guy who's married is I can't do this to my wife. The actress, oh my god, she was so good. I got to give her a shout out. She's incredible. I never saw this woman before, but oh Joe, when you just look up.
Look, it's definitely cheating if you're having sex in VR with someone. If it's cheating, if you're texting someone, it's definitely cheating if you are having sex in VR.
But dude, they feel all the feelings and the dude's like, finally, he's like, this is fucked up. I got it. I can't do this to my wife. And they're like bros. And then finally they meet up. Sorry these are spoilers, I guess, but they meet up because they're like, dude, we got to see if we're gay or not because I need to know. So like they're like, we should probably kiss and see if it's like real life where it's just VR world, and so they so they kiss and there's like not anything. He's like no, he's like you know, he's like, fuck, it's just in the VR world that they because that's for the characters, right. But then he's like what does it feel like? Because one of them is I'm guy, and he's like, what does it feel like when I'm like basically when I'm fucking you? And he's like, dude, It's like so much more intense than being a man. Being a man and having an orgasms like a guitar soul having as a woman is like an orchestra.
This is amazing for the cast and Credibles, we already been Anthony Macki and y'all, y'all, Abdulah mate in the second Nicole Bahari, who is incredible, palm commentive plays Rosette, who I think is the woman.
No, no, the woman I'm talking about is is the African American wife she.
Oh Bahari, Oh, it's fantastic.
I know she is donald. She she's a wonderful actress. I haven't seen her. What else has she been in.
Jowel one second? In what would you know her? From Shame?
She was in the Last Fall, she was in did you see Miss Juneteenth? That she's so great and that.
That was like, I'm not going to know she is unless she was in Marvel or Star Wars.
So she was the lead in Sleepy Hollow.
Anyway, she's a wonderful actress and she she did such a good job in this. And Anthony Mackie is always good and what's.
The other falcon? From Falcon in the wonder So.
There you go. Donald's he is, Yeah, this guy is because he was in what's that show? Donald didn't say it, but the Watcher what's it called John Joel The Watchers or Watchman, Watchman, Watchman? He was in that, right, he's a blue guy.
Yeah, yeah, he played he played Uh.
Yeah, you saw his blue penis?
Professor Manhattan.
Yeah, Doctor Manhattan.
He's a really wonderful actor.
Was his penis bigger than the white guys?
Well, they didn't show in the In Black Marry, they don't show penis, but it.
Was so in in Doctor Manhattan. If you saw his penis, he do see his penis, don't me?
And I remember I don't remember its size, but I remember that it was.
Blue because in the movie he had a pretty big penis too. Man, they both like he's walking around and then they you know what they did in the movie. I can't talk about it, can.
I know you can't. I'm sorry. You're a segment friend. Dresser will knock on your door.
I don't mind that. When I come to kick it, we could totally kick it.
Frans like you know, like the bad Signal of fantasies, like that Sag comedy and tragedy signal, and she's like, I gotta go to Donald's house.
If that's what it takes to get her over here.
All right, listen, we've been trying to do fun things, smart things, educational things. We hope you liked our vagina episode, Joelle. Was it well received? Our vagina We got a lot.
Of funny comments on the social media? Is so how much people are loving he was a giant specialist.
I thought that was a really good episode.
We should have the vagina specialists and the penis specialists on at the same time.
Yes, And then they fall in love and they start dating.
That would be so dope if they could just and.
He's like, I love the way you talk about pussy, and she's like, I love you talk about like where do you live?
Don't talk that way, Joel, Joelle, you think when doctors get off of work, they're like, you're erect.
Organ Yeah, you talk in a freaking doctor turn how to talk dirtier than anyone, Joelle. They're like, I want to see you think when doctors talk dirty, they're like they use the specific please God, no, please, the nicest Menora. She's like, no, girl.
Lay, that's that's for all you young Jewish men out there. You want a good pickup line, Uncle Zach just gave it to you.
I saw the funniest pickup line on on an Instagram this real. This guy goes, I mean, you have to be so cheesy to do this, but it was funny. He goes the guy, He goes the guy over there. I thinks you're cute. And then he ran over there and like leaned on the counter and smiled back at her.
Oh my god, you like the Joel you rolled your eyes?
Dad. Joke can be.
Pretty No, but like it was so cheesy but funny, like the guy who did it made it funny. It was good.
That's how you at least get a drink.
That's how she's laugh just because it's so stupid, right.
M hm hm.
You gotta that, and it makes you seem harmless. That guys probably chill.
Yeah, all right, listen, guys, today we talked about Vagina's last week. We're gonna talk about alcohol today because this guy Andy Rammage I heard on a podcast and he is so smart and speaks so interestingly about alcohol, and uh, we are fake doctors, and we thought we should have an interesting episode since we can no longer talk about scrubs for now about alcohol. So is he here to him?
Yeah?
All right, Donald count Us, I'm not sure we made about a bunch of docs.
Said, he's a story natural.
So yea.
Yea lady and gentlemen, give it up for Andy.
What are you doing?
That's your thunderous applause?
Andy, that is a cool intro.
Thank you very much.
Oh look, Andy's got all the professional gear and everything too.
Well.
You're going to get a great recording out of him. And he Welcome to the podcast. That's my co host, Donald Faison, Welcome. I want to just give the audience a little context. I you guys know, I've spoken about Rich role on the podcast. I think he is just such an incredible man, has a wonderful podcast, and I'm lucky enough to be friendly with him. And I've been playing with my own relationship to alcohol. I've been trying drinking less and going on like two month breaks and three month breaks and just seeing how my body felt and how my mind felt. And when I told Rich this, he said, oh my gosh, have you ever heard my podcast with Andy? You should hear it? And he sent it to me and it really was life changing. I'm not blowing it up too big to say that to you, Andy, I really thought the way you spoke about alcohol and the way you talked about this sort of middle lane for people who are just curious about alcohol, people who are casual drinkers, people who maybe get drunk a few times a month or whatever. Not necessarily not necessarily speaking to people who would need a program like AA or something other than that, but that sort of middle lane of people who are kind of curious what would my life be like without alcohol? And you just spoke so eloquently about it, And I'm just I feel shy around you because you're so smart, and I wanted to have you on to share your knowledge without audience.
Thank you for such a wonderful intro.
I'm yeah.
The message of alcohol freedness with the world, that's what it's all about.
Yeah. Now, when I first found you, you were a part of something called One Year No Beer. I believe you have a different project now, but can you talk a little bit about, you know, how you got into this and how your life changed from experimenting with no alcohol.
Yes, originally I was a professional soccer player. I guess you'd call it over there in my early twenties, and then I got injured, traveled the world, ended up in the world of broken the guys in the bright jackets that scream and shout at one another, fast paced electric, high octane, high stress, a wash with alcohol. That's how we entertained. That's what we did. Fast forward ten years. I'd reached a certain level of success. I guess materially and in my mind I should have been blissfully happy. Only I wasn't. I was free stone, forty two pounds heavier than I am.
Now.
I just discovered I had early on set heart disease. I was starting to suffer from morning after anxiety. There was a bit of a dark cloud over my life. I didn't have the bump to get up and go that I used to have actually fought in this weird space it must.
Be middle age.
And then, like lots of people, I started to experiment with different ideas and concepts. I started to try and run a bit more, only I was really inconsistent. I tried to eat a bit better, yet I was inconsistent in my nutrition. I tried ice baths, diditation. I was too anxious to meditate. The last thing, which I think is so true of so many people that I ever questioned, was alcohol because it was a given right, that's what you did as a broker, and as an adult, we all drink. But I had this nagging feeling that maybe if I took a break, things might start to change. And I did, and it transformed my life. And I was a middle lane drinker, and I think that's really important to get that across to your listeners. So a middle lane drinker being someone that would drink averagely, someone that would drink heavily, someone that would drink not at all and moderately, which is probably about seventy percent of the adult population of the Western Wales. So there was no problem. There was no rock bottom. Was I drinking too much? Absolutely, but who isn't. So I removed it and got these amazing results. I lost that weight, That forty two pounds came off for me. My resting heart rate went from sixty eight down to forty two. I paused early on set heart disease. My business, my broken business, and everyone said it would foil because you can't be a broker and not drink. Grew seven times bigger in half the time. It was such a beautiful experience. I just wanted to share it. I didn't know how to share it. I wrote a little your book, put the book into the world. It got picked up by one of the world's biggest publishers, Pam McMillan. So I wrote another book called the twenty eight Alcohol Free Challenge. It started the one you Know Beer movement, which collectively with all the other initiatives that I've got involved in, have inspired hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people to take a proactive break. And it's been that message I've been banging on.
Yeah, can you do it so well?
Yeah? First of all, as someone who still drinks alcohol and delves into his vices, you look amazing.
First we should tell the audience that he's ripped and handsome.
Right, you said that you were a rugby player or a soccer play football player when you stopped drinking alcohol. Did that make it so that you went to the gym and that your diet changed because of that? Because you know, there are people that say, you know, no lost weight, I just stopped drinking and that's all they did. And I find that hard to believe because when I didn't drink I didn't just lose weight. I had to go to the gym and stuff like that. Can you speak on how your physique and fitness came back to you, because I've seen pictures of you when you were at the height of your middle ground drinking.
So true, and you're right. Well, some of the research, which is really interesting, says that for middle lane drinkers who take a twenty eight day break from alcohol, they on average lose about free kilograms, which is really interesting. But for me, you're right, the reason that the weight fell off wasn't just stopping drinking. It was actually then that I got consistent in the way that I was exercising. Because if we think about it, what is the number one thing that gets in the way of our consistency of exercise? I would say for most people it's a hangover all those few drinks at the weekend that means they can't quite be bothered to go to the gym on a Monday or a Tuesday. What's the number one thing that destroys our nutrition is invariably that stodge food that we crave after those couple of drinks. Again, this is middle lane drinking. So when you remove that suddenly my nutrition was much better, my exercise was more consistent. Plus I removed all those calories from alcohol. And you're right, the combination of those few things the white fell off on me. I got into the best shape of my life mainly because the catalyst was alcohol, but then it was the combination of all those other things.
Yeah, how old are you?
Forty nine tomorrow?
Happy birthday, same age.
Happy birthday, same age as Donald Faison. I think also too, when you do it, I've been just experimenting with not drinking for a while now, and you feel you automatically feel like proud of that the quote unquote health kick that you're on. So I think another answer to Donald's question is it goes Oh well, I do want to do that. I do want to get on the bike, I do want to go to that yoga class because I'm enjoying this health kick, and there is no there is no headache when you wake up, so you're more likely to go do the thing because you're not like the cloud and the fog of whether it's two drinks or too many drinks from the night before just isn't a part of your life.
That's certainly so true. I think that's what happens to most people. They get on this lovely role of health because the foundation for me is remove alcohol tactically for a period of time. Doesn't have to be for everything. But I think in that space, as you say, people feel better, they look better, which compounds in motivation to keep doing the things that they get results from, such as exercise and better nutrition.
I've seen Zach on two sides. I've seen Zach on the side where it was like, oh boy, you are gone, and now I see him where he's He's always been kind of the life of the party, but he holds court and is very clear and there's no there's no inebriation to it. As a friend, it's something to admire. And then when he meets people and then they try to push things on him. As his friend, I find myself step trying to step into like, yo, leave him alone. He's sober and this is and and it's really really working for him, you know what I mean. I need to get on this kick too. What is this twenty eight day challenge?
Well, are gonna get to all that, But I just want to say, like I actually, for me, the hardest part of experimenting with sobriety is the only challenging part for me personally, and obviously everyone listening you have a different story. I'm never speaking for you. I'm only speaking for myself. Is when I sit down to dinner and everyone orders a drink. It's that first drink at a dinner party a restaurant where everyone's like, oh, I'll have this, we will have that. You have that that I feel like, ooh, that would be nice. A wine buzz right now at the end of this day would be great. But the set like five minutes later, when their drinks arrive and they start that that has passed. For me. I'm now present. I enjoy when people get buzzed. That doesn't bother me at all. I'm whereas I would have started getting buzzed and not as present. I'm now way more present in the conversation and listening to people and contributing in this someone who likes to make people laugh, quicker witted, and all of the things that I was trying to be by getting drunk. I'm actually truly more of sober.
Yeah, this is so powerful, And I discovered that myself. It took me years to figure it out. I would drink to overcome that initial social anxiety, that uncomfortable feeling when people get together in a group. Recently, we had a big boat party on the Thames called the No Booze Cruise. Two hundred and fifty people got together on a boat, no alcohol, and the first fifteen minutes there was that natural sense of uncomfortableness getting to no new people, and then it went away. And then it dawned on me that for all of those years and how many people are in this bracket drink to overcome that social anxiety, when actually if they just sat with it for fifteen minutes, you described it goes and then you're sharp, You've got the banter, you can be that life and soul and then you feel incredible.
You can drive home.
Yeah, and you wake up at seven in the morning and you're like, yes, fucking awesome.
How long does it take really for alcohol to set into like about fifteen minutes right where you're like, oh shit, I'm drunk, right, And if you didn't drink and you just let the party come to you, you still be in the same state. You just wouldn't be inebriated.
What I find is that, and this is funny, You're just reminded me. And this is a random I wasn't playing some about this. But when we did the Garden State, the scene in the Garden State where there's an ecstasy party scene, and it was the second day of filming, and I was so nervous. I was a young director. I was like, how am I going to get thirty people to act like they're on drugs and drunk and axing? And I was had all these plans like, oh, let them drink. What am I gonna do? I go, No, that'll be a mess. And we just started acting it and being it, and within fifteen minutes everyone felt the feelings if you had twenty five people pretending to be on ecstasy and drug and I'm they just manifesting it, And I feel like that's a bizarre way of putting it, but also that's true when you're sober in a party setting, if you just manifest like I am present, I am interested, I am silly, it just naturally happens.
Yeah, and there's the placebo. Now, I think of the alcohol free drinks that didn't exist. You know when I got into this ten years ago, that wasn't an option. That wasn't none available really, so you have to stand there with, you know, a fizzy drink of cola. Yeah, And it was so obvious.
It's like a.
Beacon to say, I'm not drinking. Pickle me, pressurize me to drink.
Where is now? What are you not drinking? Bandy bud. Let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words. Well, Andy, I want to talk about that. I want to go into that because another thing I loved about what you said is and we're going to get into the challenge and stuff, but one of the things that I loved what you said is that you love using the challenge for the societal pressures because you can say to people, oh, I'm doing this challenge, and especially men, it's such a man a masculine thing. It just shifts people. They're like, oh, what's the challenge? What are you doing? And so it sort of takes the peer pressure out of it because people are curious of this challenge that you're on. Can you speak to that a bit.
Yeah, And that was really important to me because, as Donald just mentioned, they're there's social pressure, especially ten years ago, to drink was immense, especially if you've been that guy, and I was that guy. You know, if you're going to come out with me, I was going to entertain you, and it was going to involve alcohol. It's how I met my friends, met my wife. It was just quite ubiquitous in the way that I would socialize. If you try and switch that off, it's really difficult because you meet the same friends or you meet your clients and they're like, well, hold on a minute, almost as if that's a slight on them, So you don't want to drink around me, And of course my rubber arm would be twisted then really quickly, you know, and I'd be called boring and all those things that would often trip me up. So I couldn't get started. So I had to come up with a bit of a plan. So for me, making it a challenge and telling people that I was on a challenge brought me some time because I think in their mindset they were a bit like, oh, I'm going to get my buddy back in twenty eight days or ninety days, so I'll let you away with it. But secretly I knew if I could get on a roll with this, which I did, I might never go back. And here I am pretty much ten years.
Later, right, But didn't you say also that, like I thought you said this that the sort of friends and men react differently to the concept of a challenge.
Oh, completely, because I think we're used to that help me from triathlons to lion men and marathons. It's a bit like raw challenge. So they got that, oh, we can do a challenge.
Yeah, I get that.
I'll let you do that as a friend. But as long as you're going to come back right and drink with me at the end of the challenge, and I'll be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, You're.
Like and then after the twenty eight days you're like, you know what, dude, I gotta be honest with you, bro. Yeah, I don't want to go back, Bro, I don't want to come back, man, Like, I just feel good about myself right now. And let's uh, let's let's just we've been kicking it anyway. Let's just really ask you know.
One of the things I've been fascinating with. And I know this is obvious to everyone listening, but I really be aware of it as I as I play with sobriety that gosh. I said this to Annie in an email we are sold from our entire lives that this is how you have fun from high school to college to socializing as an adult. Whether it's advertising, whether it's just our culture, whether it's our friends, it's our parents, it's our big brothers and sisters. The way that you have fun and the way that you date and hook up and be sexy and be free is alcohol. That was like that, even that was never questioned in my life. That was the rules of the culture. And I imagine it's more intense in England, but I mean in America, that's what we grew up with.
I think it's the same. I mean, here's a great example. I've got seventeen year old daughter who will soon be eighteen, and the drink limit or age of drinking in the UK's eighteen. Try and buy a birthday card from eighteen year old that doesn't have a picture of alcohol on it.
It's almost it's.
Almost impossible to buy a birthday card for an eighteen year old that is not celebrating the fact that they can now drink alcohol. It's ubiquitous. We've got big alcohol pouring trillions into marketing, lobbying our governments. We've sold a story from a very young age that alcohol is fun, it's cool, it's sexy, and marketing works. That's why we spend so much money on it. But where I come along is to try and wake people up a little bit and just say is it really Is it really that fun for you? And I think a lot of people will flippantly say, of course it's fun and it's boring to not drink, And then I'll ask questions such as, well, have you ever not had fun whilst drinking? And I would probably argue that most people, some of the worst nights of their life have involved alcohol. Some of the things that they're shameful for and regretful about have involved alcohol. Many nights are very average, if not a bit shite after a few drinks. It spoils many great nights. And of course there's the old one that's a great night. But that can't be the alcohol, can it, Because if it was true it was alcohol, then every night would be a great night. So I think it's when you start to bring a bit of awareness to it, you realize, actually, I've just been sold this dream that I keep playing, and actually I don't think it's true for most people when they really pick it apart.
Yeah, that's so well said. It's a habit. It's a habit that we were just we're just so used to, and it's ingrained in the system, like the idea of the idea of going on I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, yeah, I might try that. I could try a month, but like, oh my god, going on a date, Like, how would I even do that? Like that's how ingrained it is into our culture. Like, wait, you want me to go on a first date and not drink? What are you talking about?
That's almost weird.
It would be like that.
I remember, this is genuinely true. One of my biggest fears about stopping drinking. My biggest concerns was this, How the hell was I going to dance at a wedding. I was like, that's impossible, middle aged ginger, man, I'm not even sure. So from middle aged ginger and dancing, what's that? And of course I did it and it wasn't pretty, trust me.
But yeah, but if you were on alcohol, it would have been ugly. I'm going to keep it very true.
And he talk about One thing you said on Rich's podcast that I really responded to was this idea, even if you're a casual drinker, you're having a few drinks two or three times a week, you may not feel the hangover the effects of it, but you are always having some alcohol in your system and under some fog of alcohol. Just talk about that, because I love the way you put it on Rich's podcast. You were saying that most people don't know this. They think when the nause is over, or a hangover's over, or even if they just had two glasses of wine at dinner, that like, it's all good. But actually, if you're doing that at minimum two nights a week, that alcohol is always in your system and your brain is still under some fog of that.
Yeah, and it's so true. That was my personal reflection. I suddenly realized even though I was in that middle lane and I was maybe out with clients during the week, and then I'd have a few more at the weekend, and I started to really think about the knock on consequences and effect in terms of my psychology and physiology. I realized that I was never ever out of its clutches in many ways. And then I started to broaden that and realized that probably one hundred percent of the time, I was underperforming in my job as a parent, as a partner, because I'm constantly a little bit tired, a little bit jaded. We know for all the research that it takes days, depending on how much you've drunk, to flush through your system. We know instantly that even those one or two drinks is going to destroy the quality of your sleep. And if you look at the research behind poor sleep and then performance and mental health, it's incredible. So I was doing that to you. It destroys the quality of your sleep. You've obviously got this process where you're trying to maintain equilibrium. Your balance is trying to your brain's trying to get back to balance. So when you start to think about it, you realize that even those couple of drinks in the week have got that slight knock on effect for two or three days. But then if you drink again at the weekend and there's another two or three days, you're never escaping that trap. Therefore, I believe alcohols like kryptonite to your dreams, kryptonite to your performance. I think most people in the Western world are underperforming in everything across the board, and they don't even realize it because of that middle Lane drinking here.
Isn't it actually poison?
But yeah, it's It's a carston genic I mean, there's no two ways about it. It's the same as asbestos, same as radiation, the same as tobacco. It's a number one castinogen when it breaks down into the body as a product called a catelde hyde.
No, it's nuts. And also it's just it's just so frustrating that it's it's it's just so part of the culture and accept it. It's just and I didn't really have this epiphany about it until I until I tried not drinking it, and then I was like, wow, it's just funny when you zoom out, like this is just something we do as a society. This is this is so promoted. I know you said, build big alcohols behind it. I'd love to hear you talk more about that. We know that just from growing up on Africais. I literally I was a teenager. And if you remember, this is how brilliant the marketing was. Absolute vodka had this amazing campaign for years and years and years where they would work the bottle into different forms of art and it was in all the magazines I collected them all not all because they're resilience. But I collected them and I would put them on a wall in an outside my bedroom. And my parents, you know, they were fine with it. It was like, oh, he's collecting cool art. I had like a wall of vodka ads on my wall because I was so successfully marketed to as a teenager that I was like, I didn't even know it. I was like, oh, this is just pretty art. It's so cool what they do with how they work the bottle into each even advertisement I was. I had a collush of booze art on my wall.
You know, it would have been really awesome if that's what your drink of choice is.
Vodka was, oh, I would drink vodka. Ginger beer was what they call the Moscow mule. That was my go to drink.
But it got you good.
And I don't even like vodka. The taste of vodka, I don't, you know, when you think about drinks, what are we doing for the most part. I mean, I know I'm not speaking for everyone, but for myself. You're disguising the taste of the booze, right, You're trying to give a delivery system to the booze, so it can get into your bloodstream with a taste, so you mix it with something right. For me, I like the taste of ginger beer, so I would mix the alcohol with ginger beer to hide how much I didn't like the taste of vodka.
Yeah, I don't think that's your story for so many people, isn't it? It's masks.
How do I get the delivery system into my blood? I have to put orange juice with it. I have to put cranbery juice with it. I have to put you know, whatever you know, make it, Make it a margarita. Don't give me tequila? Are you crazy? Making a margarita? The taste with all that shit in it?
Right? You want me to drink that shit straight?
Right?
I look like you want me to drink that all right? Well, put some sugar on the fucking rim.
Yeah, and then we bind to it. And then, you know, even our first you know, drink of alcohol is awful, isn't it. It tastes horrible. No one enjoys that, but we train ourselves and oh yeah, elves through it to be like out grun ups.
I remember the teenager being like, don't worry. One day this beer will taste good. One day you're gonna get past this hump.
Yeah, I remember. I remember thinking like that too, Like this will all one day be just you.
Hold your nose. Just hold your nose, bro because one day everyone says you get, you get, you start to like the taste. Just hold your nose.
One day you're gonna crave this. One day you're gonna quint This will quench your thirst. One day, I remember thinking that ship drinking forties of only with my friends, like this shit tastes nasty. We used to take grape soda and put grape soda in English to taste it, to make that ship taste good, y'all, I remember that Shiitish eight hundred.
We're gonna take a break. I'm sure a lot of people are asking I have questions, and I have some of the One is okay, Andy, I'm interested. How do I even try this?
Help me?
And I have another couple of questions. So we'll be right back after these fine words. All right, So Andy, I'm sure there's people listening who are thinking a couple of things. If I was listening, I would think, okay, I'm intrigued. I don't Let's just pick a person type a person type A says, I don't want to be necessarily sober forever. I'd like to have an occasional drink. I enjoy having a glass of wine here and there. But I am curious about your challenge and taking a break and seeing how I feel. How the hell do I do that? Andy, what is your advice?
First and foremost, if you look at the calendar, and that's what most people do, They're like, I can't do it. I've got the wedding, I've got the birthday, I've got the leaving do this is impossible, There's there's nowhere, there's no space for me to do this. So first and foremost, I think just start. Begin as long as it's safe to do so. You're a middle lane drinker and there's a little caveat there that has to come in. But this again exposes alcohol at it's worse. If someone is drinking too much, you can become physically dependent on howcohol. Therefore, to stop it to abruptly can be lethal.
All right, we should just clarify. We should clarify for safety. Here two things. One, if you you probably know if you're not what Andy's talking about, and you need a program and you need AA or the like, and that's not really obviously listen to this message as well, but Andy's really speaking more to the casual drinker who But by the way, this must, this must enlighten a lot of people, because if you can't do it, that's also enlightening.
Isn't it Exactly? It's almost an early warning system for many people.
This is.
But we're talking to the middle lane, the average drinker, the moderate drinker, the sometimes not at all drinker, the sometimes heavy drinker, is the middle lane. And I think the best thing to do is start. Start now what you're waiting for? Why would you wait for an opportunity to be fitter, faster, healthier, to get your time back, your energy back, for your skin to glow, to get your motivation back, to discover what it's like to be one hundred percent again imagine that, you know. That's my message, is what are we waiting for to get started to today? And equally, if you've got those big things in your diary which you've always got in there between the birthdays, between the Christmases, between the holiday seasons or the holidays, they are very often the best time to start because when you come out the other side of the wedding and you've done sober and you've ticked that box, or you've had that big weekend with your friends, and actually you realize you were way sharper, You had a better time. You felt amazing the next day, and you look incredible the next day, and people are starting to comment on how you look and how you are. There's some of the best motivational.
Reasons to continue in your journey.
So I think they're a great place to start. Join a community. You know, I'm biased. We have an appical Dry with an extra y.
Dry is an app they can get dry with an extra y.
Yeah, dryy. It's free to download. We have the most incredible, beautiful community that's global in I'm live in there most days. It's a live apt of beautiful people just inspire each other to take a break.
Right, And that's a community. And there's challenges in there where you can do a month or three months or whatever. Right.
Yeah, it's a really beautiful space. And I think what's important about that is that when you decide to take a break, very often it's a solo mission, isn't it. Because we're also beautifully different, Like my wife still drinks. Most of my best mates still drink, most people I know still drink. It was my personal choice to take a break, So I think what happens to a lot of people. They decide to take a break, and then none of their friends are doing the same, and then it's much harder.
So I think that's the same for me.
I mean, I go out with online buddies and again I don't I want them just clarify, I don't know that I'm sober for life. I don't want to be pasturing like I am. I'm enjoying playing with this and really and do notice all the changes he's talking about, feeling better, less depression, less anxiety. People come up to me and they're like, you look great. What's different. The only thing that's different is I stop drinking and feeling already not having any hangovers, like.
Not having whiskey Dick anymore.
I was about to say the ad villain, the advilla in my cupboard has dust on it, like, I'm so proud of the fact that advil is not a regular part of my life anymore.
And not having whiskey Dick.
I'm not. That might be your issue, Donald, but my penis is so strong.
That it.
Was able to I don't want to talk about my penis in front of Andy Donald. He's a very important.
And he was going to talk about that. When I said that, he was like, that's true. Once I stopped. I saw it in his face. He was going to be like, once I stopped drinking, my big got He's an Englishman.
They don't he's proper. They don't talk about something alright, so dry the app and I want to say, there's an app I used called I Am Sober. That's just a really a counter that's that's fun because you kind of there's this is a doctor Fader thing. I'm a cognitive behaviorist. I work with Andy who we had on the show, who's just very into the idea of a streak and the I Am Sober app or other counter apps, or you can really just mark off days on a paper calendar if you want to do it. The easiest way is just sort of showing you like your streak and you don't want to fuck up your streak. You know, it's like anything, you know, just like a little kid who's getting stickers on a calendar for using the toilet. You know, you want to you want to keep your streak going. You want your sticker, you want your you want your little the little thing that happens on I am sober when you reach thirty days and it does a dance. You know, it's just very you know, our brains love the affirmation and uh and that's been helpful to me.
Yeah.
And what I'd also say about that, I think I recommend streaking with a twist, not to be confused with naked twister. That's a whole different game. Yeah, streaking with a twist. And what I mean by that is, if it doesn't quite work out, market is a blip and.
Keep Yeah, don't stop, don't stop.
Yeah, because that snakes and ladders sometimes you go back today we have shoots.
And ladders, not snakes and ladders. But we do have a large English audience that will know what do you call it? Snakes and ladders?
Yes, that's a kid's board game, isn't it? Yes?
But in our country, Donald, you might know it as shoots and ladder.
Oh no, I remember shooting remember Candy Land.
Yes, but that's off topic, Donald, Okay, stay on topic.
Let's stay on topic. So what else can we do? Streak with a twist? Join an alcohol free community, and then I think, immerse yourself in the winds the benefits. This has been my approach for ten years. The message that I've been banging on about is celebrate the winds. There's nothing to give up and everything to gain. And I think if you keep that focus in mind, it's really important because there's periods throughout the year where people take a break from alcohol, and very often they do so begrudgingly. And it's like, right, I'm going to do a month off and I'm going to knock myself away and I'm not going to see anyone. It's going to be shut right, and I'm going to remind myself as to why I should be drinking because this month's been absolutely terrible. I'm the opposite, go and celebrate all the benefits of being alcohol free. What does it feel like to be up a bit earlier? What does it feel like to see your skin glow, to be a little bit less grumpy, to be more consistent in your nutrition, Maybe you lose some weight, maybe you perform a bit better. Keep your eyes on all those benefits. That's unbelievably motivational for people, I think incredibly important. So that's my approach. And then also the world has changed with the alcohol free alternatives. I think they're incredible for the middle lane drinker. You know, you feel grown up.
They've got that on my tails. It's funny. My go too is always just getting a ginger beer because I genuinely like ginger beer. I like the taste of it. Most bars have it feels like you're kind of having a drink. I save it for those times when I'm going out with people and it's like, oh, that's my that's my go to. And then in La especially, there's just so many people sober that they have now they have these whole drink menus that are like someone a waiter to me was like, you sure you want a ginger beer. You don't want this concoction. And I was like, oh shit, yeah, give me that. And it came and it was amazing, and it felt like a drink. I mean it was like had a honey in it and had all these ingredients in it. Because that you know, again, we live in LA and or New York where where there's a lot of that.
But they watched the sugar too, because that also has a lot to do with the concoctions that are made aren't like freaking fruit punch and orange juice and you know.
Right, But I'm saying, if you're having one, you're giving yourself, Like I think you can be proud enough that you're not not aboozing, that you can enjoy a little bit of sugar in your drink. Hell, I treated myself to a pine of Ben and Jerry's yesterday because that was my reward.
That's a whole different.
I'll call is the dumbest use of calories. Let's just be honest. It is. You know, it is so stupid. It is weightless, and it's just it's just drinking poison and putting calories on your body. It is the dumbest use of of of lots of calories.
And we have you know, pints in the UK or a strong pint of beer is the equivalent to a hot dog and fries.
Yeah yeah, and Guinness too. I remember I usually I was in a phase where I was drinking Guinness. Guinness has so many fucking CALORIESA like a milkshake, you might as well have a milk chick.
I fucking do want a milkshake right now. I'm not gonna lie about that.
Have a milkshake, that's the thing. Would you rather have a milkshake than a Guinness? Some people are like fuck no, now, Andy. One thing the Hubberman had on his podcast, this whole thing for those of you who don't know, he's like the top health kind of podcaster these days, and he had a thing that finally put to rest any of this notion that there was any health benefits at all to alcohol, because for a while people were like, oh no. On the web and in research it says that a glass of red wine is fine a day. Is that that's been disproven correct.
Completely, So the World Health Organization has come out clearly and said there is no safe limit. There can't be. It's a castnogen. But what you can imagine then, we've seen it with climate change, we've seen it with nutrition, we saw it with tobacco. Most definitely, it would be in the interest to promote certain studies designed to confuse people. You know, and you see it at the time people are con when they're confused, they continue to do what they've always done, which in this instance is drink. So you'll see something like a red wine study or a whisky a day or whatever it is on one drink a day. But if you peel back the layers of those studies the World Health Organization, it's very clear, so you'll see the sleight of hand. Then it will be less risky drinking because they can't say anymore that it is safe at these levels. Red wine is a brilliant example of that. And the way I look at it is this type of an analogy. There might be some benefits from the antioxidants in the grapes, but just drink grape juice, like why dance with the devil. It's a little bit like saying there's a swimming pool, and if you swim to the end of that swimming pool, it's good for you, right aerobic exercise. But by the way, in that swimming pool are loads of ravenu sharks. It's the same thing. You just wouldn't swim in it, would you. And that, I think is as similar with the red wine being good for you, or alcohol a certain level being good for you. Why would you ever get in that poll full of ravenus sharks? Just you exercise without it.
Sharks can't live in a pool.
He was talking about. He wasking about salinate a salinated fool Donald, it was a pool for sharks. It wasn't.
Let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words.
Too.
Well, do you have any questions while I'm thinking of any other good ones for him?
Yeah?
My questions were, so after you made this big change and it's changed your whole life, and now you're not just bringing it to people, but you're training other people on how to like dispense this information.
You do like life coach training, Right, how did you get into that? And then like.
To me, I think like I do a lot of run a mentorship program at iHeart, and it's been like one of the most fulfilling things of my life. Has completely changed how I cracked my projects. I find myself giving them lessons where I'm like, I need to document that for myself and do for myself. And I was just wondering, like teaching people how to life coach, how has that impacted your life?
Yeah, And that's a lovely question because a big part of what I do now is coaching and that all came from the experience of taking a break from alcohol. So I was a broker back in the day, and over the last ten years have gravitated away from that because I think when someone goes on this alcohol free adventure or spends time on the fun side of the island, like I like to describe it, there's essentially want to give it back, you know that real I didn't know what it was.
It was this tug to.
Give this thing back, which led me into training as a coach, which led me on this beautiful journey of now I train coaches, executive coaches, business coaches, life coaches, but then add the specialism of alcohol free performance coaching because what I've figured out is, over all these years and I've been so lucky, I've trained some amazing actors, actresses, some of the best in the business, athletes, and always the foundation of alcohol free performance training because what I figured out is if they're middle lane drinkers and they take a break, they're going to get amazing results.
Anyway, So I.
Look like a bit of a here. Oh they get incredible results really because they've just stopped drinking. Plus you know, there's a bit of coaching around it, but that helps people get great results. So it's a big part of what I do now is actually help other people and train them to do exactly the same thing. To share this message far and wide is the mission.
Well, I want to thank you because you really did make a difference in my life. I am one of those people who heard you, and I'm hoping all of the hundreds of thousands of people that will hear this within there, there's a group of people that are going to try this and it will make a difference in their life. And I really did feel I really do as I'm playing with this and taking on this challenge, I really do feel better, most importantly in my mental health.
That's really important.
And you, yeah, that's one thing I just want to talk about. We talked about the physical things, but I noticeably feel less anxious and less depressed as someone who battles those things. And I just want to acknowledge you for being an advocate for this because some people will hear this and go great. Not for me, but there are that are going to hear it and go let me try, let me, let me see what they're talking about. And I just want to thank you for being so vocal about it all.
Yeah, and that's that's lovely to hear. And what is wonderful for me is more people like yourself with your incredible profile sharing a new message because it is a fresh message about taking breaks from alcohol as more of a middle lane drinker. And I think that's such an important message to share because for years we've had that one story. It's been very black and white when it comes to alcohol. You've ever got a problem or you have.
I think you were the first person I ever has speak on it so eloquently, and that's exactly what it was. And you just did it again, because that's what it was. It was in my life, it was you either have a problem and need AA or another program, or you don't drink or whatever, and then and then or you're just a middle lane person. And there was no there was no message for the middle lane people ever.
And now even when you go to your doctor, your doctors even like how many drinks do you have a week? Two? You're good, don't worry about it.
Yeah, everyone's lying when they say two too.
Yeah. Truth.
But no one ever addressed like to to me like, hey, I never had it, I never digested it until I heard you in such a way that was like, why don't you see what happens after a month? Then see what happens after two months, do this experiment. What if you're you're on any depressants, or you're battling anxiety, or you're battling your weight, what about just doing the easiest thing you can do, which is an experiment, remove alcohol for a month, three months, just see how you feel. Just clock it.
Yeah, it's so powerful and that is the message. I genuinely believe it. We look at people that are suffering from anxiety, a depression. Of course, it's not a panacea for all those things, but it certainly cleared it up. For me. I was suffering from anxiety, full blown panic attacks at time. I removed alcohol. That disappeared out my life. And you know, someone that's experienced that, it's stabilitating and it went, it vanished for me. I see that all the time in our relationships. There's research out of Ireland that suggests fifty percent of all relationship problems are down to alcohol. You know, our relationship counsel's the first thing they should do is have you tried taking a break from alcohol? Someone that's suffering with their mental health? Have you tried taken a break from alcohol? Someone that wants to perform better in their job? Have you taken a breakrom malcol, be a better parent, be a better partner. Let's just take a break from alcohol. I genuinely could list everything.
I heard a guy who said the reason he stopped drinking was I wanted to be the best parent I could be. And I knew that if I was going to do that with occasional hangovers and fogginess and grumpiness, that wasn't going to be me. And I didn't want to be that at all. I wanted to just show up one hundred percent. And I thought that was really cool thing he said.
So powerful, and it is so true, be an even better parent, even better at the job. I just think it's this foundational thing that benty anyone's talking about.
I know, and you are, and I really that's why I wanted to share your mess sage. It's funny you say about I've been watching this really stupid reality show that that I'm obsessed with. It's called below Deck right.
Oh now it's stupid. The other day below it's below Deck.
They feel bad I feel although I'm during the strike, I'm all, they would prefer I promote a reality show than a scripted show. So I will just say but here's and it's just it's just fun. It's it's it's it's a stupid reality show. It is. It's a but but here's one thing I saw, just from someone who's experimenting with not drinking. You're watching this show, right, and granted it's a heightened reality. They're meant to drink and party and and get into hijinks, but every I'm laughing. I'm sitting there laughing to myself, going, every single one of these problems that these people are having is related to alcohol. They go out, they get hammered, they make bad choices, they hook up with someone they're not supposed to, They get in fights. The next day, they're hungover, they have to work, they're grumpy, they're crying, they're calling their mom, they're sad, they're homesick. The captain's mad at them because they're not performing. And I'm sitting there laughing, going, you realize this wouldn't even be a show if they pulled out the alcohol like they're they're there's no show.
No show, and there have a dream brow they are.
But I'm saying, like all of the drama and this is just in a heightened reality reality show, obviously, but all of the drama and all of their crying and all of their fights and all of their shame is solely removed when you pull alcohol out of the show. That's just a microcosm of society, right, Bachelor and.
Paradise, Bachelor in Paradise without that bar, real talk.
And this is the thing, isn't it? That is a reflection of real life, rightave it. People are suffering on a huge scale and they've got no idea that actually it's alcohol. They're looking in all the wrong places, their ice, barfing, and they're trying to do all these other beautiful things while still you know, colffing veno collapso like it's going out of fashion and wondering why they feel a bit down, a bit deflated.
They're as.
Just remove our final message and thank you so much for coming on is just if you, if you're curious, try this out. You can go to the dry app, dr y y or very simply. The way I used to do this when I would take a month or two off is just get a paper calendar and I would buy stickers and every day I didn't drink and put a sticker on the calendar and that's a very simple way to do it, and and just you know, try it for a month and just see how you feel. You'll feel better. There's there's no way you're not going to feel better. That's that feeling. There's not an option. I don't think that you wouldn't feel better.
Yeah, and it's it's so true, And that's my message. It's just try it. Imagine if all of those results and benefits that we've all shared tonight are waiting for you, you won't known to try.
You know what this is really for. This message is really for a person that's out there. It's like, but dude, I barely drink. Yeah, that's who this message is for right now, you listening right now? That thought that immediately when you heard this, Dude, I barely drink. I think the message for you.
I think the message is also for someone who I guess what I wish someone had said directly to me, and you did in a lot of ways, Andy, but the tailor made for me would be you're trying all of these things. You're trying therapy, you're trying exercise, you're trying cold plunge, you're trying sauna, you're trying meditation, all of these things to feel better. You're forgetting the thing, the depressant that you're drinking several times a week. You're forgetting the poison that several times a week you're injecting into your bloodstream. Why haven't you tried removing that?
Yeah?
There is That's it, and I think that's the big message. Do it for a while and if you feel great, keep going.
Andy, we are you're trying to pitch freaking advertising campaign slogans for you, Zach and I here, you know who this message is, for this message, for this persion, Zach, sit you tried this, You tried.
That's honest.
I'm not pitching anything.
I don't have any fucking thing to gain other than hopefully helping other people in a way that Andy on the Ritual podcast helped me. That's my only hope. So dude, thank you so much, Andy for coming on, and we appreciate you.
Thank you, Sane for having me.
All right, thunderus applause, Donald's.
Daniel Daniel is getting married right now. I'm sorry you missed us.
Daniel's getting hammered right now, is right now? We speak as we speak, all right, Anie, thank you so much, thank you, brother.
A great guest's grateful, very inspirational.
I know that's why I wanted to share. I wanted to share him because because he speaks so eloquently on the topic and h and he's just a really wonderful person. All right, that's our show. Everybody, Joelle, anything we need to tell them, we love them.
We do love you guys, and we'll be back next week.
Oh and and we're gonna get a sex therapist, right Joel. That was part of sex Tober.
We are doing a pre interview on a couple who are both sex therapists.
Oh, I love that. Is there a way since we're doing sex Tober, is there a way that we can get the sex therapist on This might be not what they want, but the sex therapist on what the the couple that was cock.
Holding, No, that's first of all, it's not cock holding. It's cuckolding.
Cuckolding.
But they don't that couple doesn't want help. They they're fine, that ship's worked out.
So he's not happy. I'm gonna put it out.
Well, you don't know that. I think we we don't know that he might be turned on by it. Everybody has their thing. Donald just like you're turned on by fucking Darth Vader. He might be turned on by his wife.
By Darth Vader.
Yeah, would you watch Star Wars porn?
No, it'll ruin Star Wars for me.
All right, Donald, count out.
You're not sure. We made about a bunch of dogs and said he's the stories. So YadA
Yeada h
