When someone you love is in pain—whether they’re sick, addicted, or falling apart—you show up. Again and again and again. You make the calls. You hold the line. You carry what you can. But what happens when love, loyalty, and devotion blur into something harder to name? When care turns into codependency, and compassion starts to erase your sense of self?

Kate sits down with best-selling author Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love; Big Magic) to talk about the toll and the tenderness of caregiving. Liz’s new memoir, All the Way to the River, chronicles her years caring for someone she loved deeply through addiction and illness—and what it meant to finally let go.

Together, they explore:


What it means to walk someone you love to the edge of life


How codependence disguises itself as devotion


The permission we need to be more than someone’s lifeline

This conversation is for anyone who has ever loved to the point of exhaustion. Who wonders if love is meant to cost this much. Who needs a blessing for the moment when helping means losing yourself.

🧡 Listen with care. Leave with permission.

Find Kate on Substack.
Grab your Everything Happens Merch.

Books by Elizabeth Gilbert


All the Way to the River – A raw memoir of caregiving, addiction, and release


Big Magic – On creativity, inspiration, and the discipline of making


Eat, Pray, Love– A bestselling memoir on desire, spirituality, and selfhood


The Signature of All Things – A novel of science, wonder, and the search for understanding

Resources + Mentions


TED Talk: Your Elusive Creative Genius – Liz’s viral TED talk on creative brilliance


Alcoholics Anonymous – A spiritual practice of surrender discussed in the episode


Sky Cave Retreats – Where Liz spent five days in total darkness

When someone you love is in pain&mdash;whether they&rsquo;re sick, addicted, or falling apart&mdash;you show up. Again and again and again. You make the calls. You hold the line. You carry what you can. But what happens when love, loyalty, and devotion blur into something harder to name? When care turns into codependency, and compassion starts to erase your sense of self?
Kate sits down with best-selling author Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love; Big Magic) to talk about the toll and the tenderness of caregiving. Liz&rsquo;s new memoir, <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/all-the-way-to-the-river-love-loss-and-liberation-elizabeth-gilbert/04a8ea9d6ec34666?ean=9780593540985&amp;next=t">All the Way to the River</a>, chronicles her years caring for someone she loved deeply through addiction and illness&mdash;and what it meant to finally let go.
Together, they explore:
<ol>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
What it means to walk someone you love to the edge of life
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
How codependence disguises itself as devotion
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
The permission we need to be more than someone&rsquo;s lifeline
</li>
</ol>
This conversation is for anyone who has ever loved to the point of exhaustion. Who wonders if love is meant to cost this much. Who needs a blessing for the moment when helping means losing yourself.
🧡 Listen with care. Leave with permission.
<a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/">Find Kate on Substack</a>. <a href="https://shop.katebowler.com/">Grab your Everything Happens Merch</a>.
Books by Elizabeth Gilbert
<ul data-start="1316" data-end="1646">
<li data-start="1316" data-end="1397">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/all-the-way-to-the-river-love-loss-and-liberation-elizabeth-gilbert/04a8ea9d6ec34666?ean=9780593540985&amp;next=t&amp;">All the Way to the River</a> &ndash; A raw memoir of caregiving, addiction, and release
</li>
<li data-start="1398" data-end="1470">
<a href="https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/books/big-magic/">Big Magic</a> &ndash; On creativity, inspiration, and the discipline of making
</li>
<li data-start="1471" data-end="1551">
<a href="https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/books/eat-pray-love/">Eat, Pray, Love </a>&ndash; A bestselling memoir on desire, spirituality, and selfhood
</li>
<li data-start="1552" data-end="1646">
<a href="https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/books/the-signature-of-all-things/">The Signature of All Things</a> &ndash; A novel of science, wonder, and the search for understanding
</li>
</ul>
Resources + Mentions
<ul data-start="1673" data-end="2188">
<li data-start="1673" data-end="1835">
<a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_creative_genius" data-start="1675" data-end="1789">TED Talk: Your Elusive Creative Genius</a> &ndash; Liz&rsquo;s viral TED talk on creative brilliance
</li>
<li data-start="1836" data-end="1942">
<a href="https://www.aa.org" data-start="1838" data-end="1881">Alcoholics Anonymous</a> &ndash; A spiritual practice of surrender discussed in the episode
</li>
<li data-start="2025" data-end="2126">
<a href="https://www.skycaveretreats.com" data-start="2027" data-end="2080">Sky Cave Retreats</a> &ndash; Where Liz spent five days in total darkness
</li>
</ul>

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.

Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media https://lemonadamedia.com/

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.
Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media <a href="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-stringify-link="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-sk="tooltip_parent">https://lemonadamedia.com/</a>

Honest conversation about life's less-shiny moments.