As Holy Week arrives, Kate talks with theologian, poet, and former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams about joy that doesn’t erase sorrow. Together they explore longing, grief, music, gratitude, hope, and the strange, defiant way joy can sit right beside pain without denying what’s true.

SHOW NOTES


George Herbert, “The Pulley”


Nick Cave


Hannah Coulter by Wendell Berry


Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch the live conversation on YouTube


Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent: katebowler.substack.com

As Holy Week arrives, Kate talks with theologian, poet, and former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams about joy that doesn&rsquo;t erase sorrow. Together they explore longing, grief, music, gratitude, hope, and the strange, defiant way joy can sit right beside pain without denying what&rsquo;s true.
<hr>
SHOW NOTES
<ul data-pm-slice="3 3 []">
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44370/the-pulley">George Herbert, &ldquo;The Pulley&rdquo;</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.nickcave.com">Nick Cave</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/hannah-coulter-wendell-berry/173f40bc83390d48?ean=9781593760786&amp;next=t&amp;&amp;utm_source=google&amp;utm_medium=cpc&amp;utm_campaign=dsa_nonbrand&amp;utm_content=%7Badgroupname%7D&amp;utm_term=dsa-19959388920&amp;gad_source=1&amp;gad_campaignid=12440232635&amp;gbraid=0AAAAACfld43f-qCcOSINhBBx4Bt7a0c0k&amp;gclid=CjwKCAjwvqjOBhAGEiwAngeQnY5dakZxTq_qbs34NERV6j9bnHeesF-6XkDIs3T34EwD50zmmghfDBoCsr8QAvD_BwE">Hannah Coulter by Wendell Berry</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">&nbsp;katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch the live conversation on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent:&nbsp;<a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/">katebowler.substack.com</a>
</li>
</ul>

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.

Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media https://lemonadamedia.com/

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.
Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media <a href="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-stringify-link="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-sk="tooltip_parent">https://lemonadamedia.com/</a>

Honest conversation about life's less-shiny moments.

Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

The Strange Gift of Joy with Rowan Williams

Kate Bowler is joined by Nadia Bolz-Weber and Sarah Bessey for an honest, funny, and deeply tender conversation about what it means to be people of faith right now. When the world feels overwhelming—personally and globally—they explore small acts of love, embodied community, and “cozy faith” as resistance to despair. From knitting circles and prayer shawls to church, doubt, and the stubborn choice to keep loving the world, this episode is about finding hope in ordinary, human ways.

SHOW NOTES


Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch the live conversation on YouTube


Nadia Bolz-Weber


Sarah Bessey 


Evolving Faith Conference & Community


Sacred Harp singing


Braving the Truth by Rachel Held Evans (edited by Sarah Bessey)


Books by Nadia Bolz-Weber — Pastrix, Accidental Saints, Shameless


Books by Sarah Bessey — Field Notes for the Wilderness, A Rhythm of Prayer, Jesus Feminist 

Kate Bowler is joined by Nadia Bolz-Weber and Sarah Bessey for an honest, funny, and deeply tender conversation about what it means to be people of faith right now. When the world feels overwhelming&mdash;personally and globally&mdash;they explore small acts of love, embodied community, and &ldquo;cozy faith&rdquo; as resistance to despair. From knitting circles and prayer shawls to church, doubt, and the stubborn choice to keep loving the world, this episode is about finding hope in ordinary, human ways.
<hr>
SHOW NOTES
<ul>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">&nbsp;katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch the live conversation on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://nadiabolzweber.com">Nadia Bolz-Weber</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.sarahbessey.com">Sarah Bessey&nbsp;</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.evolvingfaith.com">Evolving Faith Conference &amp; Community</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://fasola.org/singings/">Sacred Harp singing</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.sarahbessey.com/books/braving-the-truth">Braving the Truth by Rachel Held Evans (edited by Sarah Bessey)</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Books by Nadia Bolz-Weber &mdash; <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/pastrix-the-cranky-beautiful-faith-of-a-sinner-saint-nadia-bolz-weber/90ecb864747637c7?ean=9781546012443&amp;amp;next=t">Pastrix</a>, <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/accidental-saints-finding-god-in-all-the-wrong-people-nadia-bolz-weber/77b65f079063c47b?ean=9781601427564&amp;amp;next=t">Accidental Saints</a>, <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/shameless-a-sexual-reformation-nadia-bolz-weber/4cd04fa8f16d16c7?ean=9781601427595&amp;amp;next=t">Shameless</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Books by Sarah Bessey &mdash; <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/field-notes-for-the-wilderness-practices-for-an-evolving-faith-sarah-bessey/6c7cbae61b0766cb?ean=9780593593677&amp;amp;next=t">Field Notes for the Wilderness</a>, <a href="https://www.sarahbessey.com/books/rhythm-of-prayer">A Rhythm of Prayer</a>, <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/jesus-feminist-an-invitation-to-revisit-the-bible-s-view-of-women-sarah-bessey/e03b026763c2b3d9?ean=9781476717258&amp;next=t">Jesus Feminist&nbsp;</a>
</li>
</ul>

How to Love the World Anyway with Nadia Bolz-Weber and Sarah Bessey

What if humor isn’t just a personality trait—but a survival strategy?

Kate Bowler sits down with writer Jenny Lawson and entertaining YouTuber Rhett McLaughlin to talk about the strange, often dark roots of comedy. From childhood anxiety and taxidermy-filled homes to lifelong creative friendships and faith that evolves, they explore how silliness, honesty, and absurdity help us live with what hurts. This is a conversation about being “too much,” laughing at what’s not funny, and finding connection in the weirdest parts of being human.

SHOW NOTES


Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch the live conversation on YouTube


Let’s Pretend This Never Happened— Jenny Lawson


Furiously Happy— Jenny Lawson


Broken (in the Best Possible Way) — Jenny Lawson 


How to Be Okay (When You’re Not Okay)— Jenny Lawson 


Rhett & Link / Mythical Entertainment


Good Mythical Morning 


James and the Shame (Rhett McLaughlin’s music project)

What if humor isn&rsquo;t just a personality trait&mdash;but a survival strategy?
Kate Bowler sits down with writer Jenny Lawson and entertaining YouTuber Rhett McLaughlin to talk about the strange, often dark roots of comedy. From childhood anxiety and taxidermy-filled homes to lifelong creative friendships and faith that evolves, they explore how silliness, honesty, and absurdity help us live with what hurts. This is a conversation about being &ldquo;too much,&rdquo; laughing at what&rsquo;s not funny, and finding connection in the weirdest parts of being human.
SHOW NOTES
<ul>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">&nbsp;katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch the live conversation on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://nowherebookshop.com/book/9780425261019jl?ic_referral=xWg7mZ7ues77Gmqe5wHg9HMvLsZIChQdQ6fPeCMqZdEwMzcsENX9o1JcXo7x6fJ7QzMj62KKStm7CA9pYIEh93hpnPrx4_su5VldxDA">Let&rsquo;s Pretend This Never Happened </a>&mdash; Jenny Lawson
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://nowherebookshop.com/book/9781250077028jl?ic_referral=_8ycVA8R-Z1mU04BOlqORfKUKpvz3VnHm98g1WMgyfUwM1q7BSjgvjcFiWO6OWR3xBqHfgRWG1eOk5X_W-5I6khdDauI-6lzHq3vII0">Furiously Happy </a>&mdash; Jenny Lawson
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://nowherebookshop.com/book/9781250812483nb?ic_referral=wzOvWtQhh8CDizRK3Cx6-bI7qHo1u7UW2qtLou8pLr4wMxqzheN6dVfVTnEqAdMQFM48MQXWmoCDWak5Hq1da04q1tx_te0Bg4d2hkM">Broken (in the Best Possible Way)</a> &mdash; Jenny Lawson&nbsp;
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://nowherebookshop.com/book/9780593833216nb?ic_referral=3uOkFQMQ10a0n2RRidkBo4mp00th532B62WlV3yKdJcwM9WKpC_e1hyAfPZq-Tz_7oyCAbO4_hmAJux25UULbvnrhVQopdtnjEKBYcU">How to Be Okay (When You&rsquo;re Not Okay) </a>&mdash; Jenny Lawson&nbsp;
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Rhett &amp; Link / <a href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&amp;rls=en&amp;q=mythical+entertainment&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8">Mythical Entertainment</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@GoodMythicalMorning">Good Mythical Morning&nbsp;</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/6Ezyyu77f1fqfuYmwaogfe?si=_SUyxfjXRRKoE4fn6cusMw">James and the Shame</a> (Rhett McLaughlin&rsquo;s music project)
</li>
</ul>

Joy, Absurdity, and the Weird Ways We Survive with Rhett McLaughlin and Jenny Lawson

On the day her new book Joyful Anyway releases, Kate pauses before the interviews and travel to reflect on a harder question: what does it mean to talk about joy in a world that feels fractured, exhausting, and uncertain? In this short, personal episode, she pushes back on the pressure to optimize our way into happiness and instead explores a stranger, sturdier kind of joy—one that shows up alongside grief, ordinary stress, and lives that don’t quite match the ones we imagined. With a reading from the book and a few honest reflections, this is an invitation to consider what might be better than happiness—and how joy might still find us anyway.

SHOW NOTES


Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler — Available everywhere books are sold.


Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch on YouTube

On the day her new book Joyful Anyway releases, Kate pauses before the interviews and travel to reflect on a harder question: what does it mean to talk about joy in a world that feels fractured, exhausting, and uncertain? In this short, personal episode, she pushes back on the pressure to optimize our way into happiness and instead explores a stranger, sturdier kind of joy&mdash;one that shows up alongside grief, ordinary stress, and lives that don&rsquo;t quite match the ones we imagined. With a reading from the book and a few honest reflections, this is an invitation to consider what might be better than happiness&mdash;and how joy might still find us anyway.
<hr>
SHOW NOTES
<ul data-pm-slice="3 1 []">
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler &mdash; <a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">Available everywhere books are sold.</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">&nbsp;katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
</ul>

The Strange Gift of Joy with Rowan Williams

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Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

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