Loving people is a gift—and a liability. The more we love, the more there is to lose. In this hilariously honest and deeply tender conversation, Kate talks with beloved writer Catherine Newman about the strange pairing of love and fear. Together, they explore how parenting, grief, humor, and hospice care shape us into people who laugh while crying and keep showing up anyway. If you’ve ever whispered “I love you” and immediately wanted to bubble-wrap your whole family, this one is for you.

Show notes:
Catherine Newman’s Work: Wreck (Novel), We All Want Impossible Things (Novel), Waiting for Birdy (Memoir), Catastrophic Happiness (Memoir), Crone Sandwich (Substack)


A Blessing for When Love Makes Us Afraid(as read on the episode)
Come hang out in our new favorite corner of the internet: Kate's Substack.

Loving people is a gift&mdash;and a liability. The more we love, the more there is to lose. In this hilariously honest and deeply tender conversation, Kate talks with beloved writer Catherine Newman about the strange pairing of love and fear. Together, they explore how parenting, grief, humor, and hospice care shape us into people who laugh while crying and keep showing up anyway. If you&rsquo;ve ever whispered &ldquo;I love you&rdquo; and immediately wanted to bubble-wrap your whole family, this one is for you.
Show notes:
<ul>
<li data-pm-slice="1 3 []">Catherine Newman&rsquo;s Work: <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/wreck-a-novel-catherine-newman/ece69625248d6a52?utm_source=google&amp;utm_medium=pmax&amp;utm_campaign=16243454879&amp;utm_content=&amp;utm_term=%7Bsearchterm%7D&amp;gad_source=1&amp;gad_campaignid=16243514117&amp;gbraid=0AAAAACfld41gzykKdCIRftUTq6V3LopT6&amp;gclid=CjwKCAjw3tzHBhBREiwAlMJoUuyrWL-RUoFTlDafOGlJ8rwSqu7vf90xTzHieX_BQIKC6qiY49xb6xoCj44QAvD_BwE">Wreck</a> (Novel), <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/we-all-want-impossible-things-a-novel-catherine-newman/312a9029abb2d018?ean=9780063230927&amp;next=t">We All Want Impossible Things</a> (Novel), <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/waiting-for-birdy-a-year-of-frantic-tedium-improbable-grace-and-the-wild-magic-of-growing-a-family-catherine-newman/89b75d7aa30391b9?ean=9780143034773&amp;next=t">Waiting for Birdy</a> (Memoir), <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/catastrophic-happiness-finding-joy-in-childhood-s-messy-years-catherine-newman/8e365862f80c63e0?ean=9780316337489&amp;next=t">Catastrophic Happiness</a> (Memoir), <a href="https://cronesandwich.substack.com">Crone Sandwich</a> (Substack)</li>
<li data-pm-slice="1 1 []">
<a href="https://open.substack.com/pub/katebowler/p/a-blessing-for-when-love-makes-us?r=4dul9&amp;utm_campaign=post&amp;utm_medium=web&amp;showWelcomeOnShare=true">A Blessing for When Love Makes Us Afraid</a> (as read on the episode)
</li>
<li data-pm-slice="1 1 []">Come hang out in our new favorite corner of the internet: <a href="https://katebowler.substack.com">Kate's Substack</a>.</li>
</ul>

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.

Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media https://lemonadamedia.com/

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.
Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media <a href="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-stringify-link="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-sk="tooltip_parent">https://lemonadamedia.com/</a>

Honest conversation about life's less-shiny moments.

Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

So Much Love, So Much to Lose with Catherine Newman

What do we do when the world feels unbearably heavy—and no one is coming to save us?

To kick off Season 16 of Everything Happens, Kate Bowler sits down live with beloved author and truth-teller Anne Lamott for a luminous, funny, and deeply honest conversation about shame, joy, faith, aging, love, and what it means to keep showing up anyway.

Recorded in front of a packed house at the historic Carolina Theatre in Durham, Kate and Anne talk about the shame that follows us from childhood, the relief of putting down our armor, and the small, ordinary acts of love that still matter. This is a conversation for anyone who feels tender, overwhelmed, skeptical of easy answers—and still hungry for hope.

Show notes:


Anne Lamott on Substack


Pre-order Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler


Tour dates & tickets:katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch the live conversation on YouTube


Kate Bowler on Substack: katebowler.substack.com


Anne Lamott


Bird by Bird


Operating Instructions


Traveling Mercies


Good Writing (with Neil Allen)


Maggie Smith, "Good Bones"


Naomi Shihab Nye, “Gate A-4”


William Blake, “We are here to learn to endure the beams of love”

What do we do when the world feels unbearably heavy&mdash;and no one is coming to save us?
To kick off Season 16 of Everything Happens, Kate Bowler sits down live with beloved author and truth-teller Anne Lamott for a luminous, funny, and deeply honest conversation about shame, joy, faith, aging, love, and what it means to keep showing up anyway.
Recorded in front of a packed house at the historic Carolina Theatre in Durham, Kate and Anne talk about the shame that follows us from childhood, the relief of putting down our armor, and the small, ordinary acts of love that still matter. This is a conversation for anyone who feels tender, overwhelmed, skeptical of easy answers&mdash;and still hungry for hope.
Show notes:
<ul>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://annelamott.substack.com/">Anne Lamott on Substack</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">Pre-order </a><a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">Joyful Anyway</a><a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/"> by Kate Bowler</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/"> </a><a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch the live conversation on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Kate Bowler on Substack: <a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/">katebowler.substack.com</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Anne Lamott
<ul>
<li data-list-indent="2" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/bird-by-bird-some-instructions-on-writing-and-life-anne-lamott/7937cf657650025e">Bird by Bird</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="2" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/operating-instructions-a-journal-of-my-son-s-first-year-anne-lamott/5b9cd2e80ae8cbc9?ean=9781400079094&amp;next=t">Operating Instructions</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="2" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/traveling-mercies-some-thoughts-on-faith-anne-lamott/6d42353bd52d63fc?ean=9780385496094&amp;next=t">Traveling Mercies</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="2" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/good-writing-36-ways-to-improve-your-sentences-anne-lamott/921b9366b288f170?ean=9798217046959&amp;next=t">Good Writing</a><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/good-writing-36-ways-to-improve-your-sentences-anne-lamott/921b9366b288f170?ean=9798217046959&amp;next=t"> (with Neil Allen)</a>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Maggie Smith, <a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones">"Good Bones"</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Naomi Shihab Nye, <a href="https://poets.org/poem/gate-4">&ldquo;Gate A-4&rdquo;</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
William Blake, &ldquo;We are here to learn to endure the beams of love&rdquo;
</li>
</ul>

Anne Lamott on Love, Shame, and Being Human

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO’s Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom. 

In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss:
How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family
How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed
The unfinished ways people love us—reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another
How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace
The way Minka’s mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time

CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect

Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.

Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful.

This episode originally aired May 2023.

 

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on&nbsp;Friday Night Lights&nbsp;or as Samantha in HBO&rsquo;s&nbsp;Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom.&nbsp;
In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss:
<ul>
<li>How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family</li>
<li>How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed</li>
<li>The unfinished ways people love us&mdash;reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another</li>
<li>How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace</li>
<li>The way Minka&rsquo;s mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time</li>
</ul>
CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect
<hr>
Looking for the transcript or show notes? <a href="https://katebowler.com/podcasts/">Click here</a>.
<a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/" data-start="2069" data-end="2132">Subscribe to Kate&rsquo;s Substack</a> for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what&rsquo;s hard and beautiful.
This episode originally aired May 2023.
&nbsp;

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO’s Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom.   In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss:  How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed The unfinished ways people love us—reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace The way Minka’s mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time    CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect

Listen Again: Clear Eyes, Full Hearts with Minka Kelly

Author and Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor is no stranger to darkness. After experiencing devastating loss, Barbara explores our culture’s pursuit of the sunny side of life. But perhaps there are things we learn in the dark that we can’t learn in the light. Kate and Barbara discuss the two halves of our lives and how to practice courage even in the scariest of circumstances.

CW: Death of parents, tongue cancer

For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions, click here.

Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful.

This episode originally aired December 2022.

Author and Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor is no stranger to darkness. After experiencing devastating loss, Barbara explores our culture&rsquo;s pursuit of the sunny side of life. But perhaps there are things we learn in the dark that we can&rsquo;t learn in the light. Kate and Barbara discuss the two halves of our lives and how to practice courage even in the scariest of circumstances.<a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices"></a>
CW: Death of parents, tongue cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions, <a href="https://katebowler.com/podcasts/barbara-brown-taylor-life-after-dark-s2e2/">click here.</a>
<a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/" data-start="2069" data-end="2132">Subscribe to Kate&rsquo;s Substack</a> for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what&rsquo;s hard and beautiful.
This episode originally aired December 2022.

So Much Love, So Much to Lose with Catherine Newman

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