When someone you love is in pain—but can’t say the words out loud—what can you do? Kate speaks with beloved Canadian novelist Miriam Toews (All My Puny Sorrows, Women Talking, A Truce That Is Not Peace) about the silences that shape us: the kind that settle into families, into churches, into whole communities where mental illness is unnamed and suffering goes unspoken.

Together, they talk about the long shadow of religious shame, the courage it takes to tell the truth, and what it means to stay present with people we can’t fix. This conversation is tender, fierce, and unflinchingly honest.

This episode includes discussion of suicide at the beginning and end of the episode. If you're struggling, you can call or text 988 for the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

SHOW NOTES:

• 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline — Call or text 988 if you or someone you love is struggling. You are not alone.

• A Truce That Is Not Peace by Miriam Toews — her newest memoir and the heart of this conversation

• All My Puny Sorrows, Fight Night, Women Talking — beloved novels by Miriam Toews

• Join Kate on Substack — katebowler.substack.com for blessings, essays, and kind conversation