There’s a particular kind of pressure that creeps in when we start measuring our lives—where we thought we’d be by now, who we imagined we’d become, how things were supposed to feel. The instinct is to fix it. Optimize it. Get moving.

But what if the invitation is something else?

Kate Bowler sits down with writer and speaker Suleika Jaouad (Between Two Kingdoms, The Book of Alchemy) for a conversation about living inside unresolved questions—especially the ones that ache. Together, they talk about ambition and exhaustion, chronic illness and uncertainty, and the quiet shifts that happen when nothing seems to change.

They explore the tension between momentum and meaning, the limits of self-improvement, and what it looks like to keep going without pretending everything is fixable.

SHOW NOTES


Suleika Jaouad’s Isolation Journals (Substack)


Between Two Kingdoms — Suleika Jaouad


The Book of Alchemy — Suleika Jaouad


Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway


Watch the live conversation on YouTube


Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent: katebowler.substack.com

There&rsquo;s a particular kind of pressure that creeps in when we start measuring our lives&mdash;where we thought we&rsquo;d be by now, who we imagined we&rsquo;d become, how things were supposed to feel. The instinct is to fix it. Optimize it. Get moving.
But what if the invitation is something else?
Kate Bowler sits down with writer and speaker Suleika Jaouad (Between Two Kingdoms, The Book of Alchemy) for a conversation about living inside unresolved questions&mdash;especially the ones that ache. Together, they talk about ambition and exhaustion, chronic illness and uncertainty, and the quiet shifts that happen when nothing seems to change.
They explore the tension between momentum and meaning, the limits of self-improvement, and what it looks like to keep going without pretending everything is fixable.
<hr>
SHOW NOTES
<ul>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Suleika Jaouad&rsquo;s <a href="https://theisolationjournals.substack.com">Isolation Journals</a> (Substack)
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/between-two-kingdoms-a-memoir-of-a-life-interrupted-suleika-jaouad/7b9b08059bab2526?ean=9780399588600&amp;next=t">Between Two Kingdoms</a> &mdash; Suleika Jaouad
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-book-of-alchemy-a-creative-practice-for-an-inspired-life-suleika-jaouad/1f7a561e34f2384b?ean=9780593734636&amp;next=t">The Book of Alchemy</a> &mdash; Suleika Jaouad
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Tour dates &amp; tickets:<a href="https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/">&nbsp;katebowler.com/joyfulanyway</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Watch the live conversation on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@katecbowler">YouTube</a>
</li>
<li data-list-indent="1" data-list-type="bulleted">
Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent:&nbsp;<a href="https://katebowler.substack.com/">katebowler.substack.com</a>
</li>
</ul>

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.

Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media https://lemonadamedia.com/

Are you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.  Find her online at @katecbowler.
Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media <a href="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-stringify-link="https://lemonadamedia.com/" data-sk="tooltip_parent">https://lemonadamedia.com/</a>

Honest conversation about life's less-shiny moments.