What if you started thinking really concretely about small, hard choices? That’s exactly what palliative care physicians do every day. They help us think about what we really want—knowing that we have limited time and limited resources. You’re going to love our guest today, Dr. Kathryn Mannix, palliative care physician and cognitive behavioral therapist. She offers practical steps to help people and their loved ones make sense of what limited choices they have, navigate any pain and fear they may experience, and gives the most comforting speech on what the end of a life looks like that we’ve ever heard. (I promise this is not scary at all. It is perfect.)

In this conversation, Kate and Kathryn discuss:

• Why we want to keep a lid on the scary things of life 

• What even is palliative care

• How palliative care-type thinking can help us live better 

• What happens to hope when facing end of life

This is a masterclass in walking right up to the edge with people, in the most gentle, compassionate way. 

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love: 

• Sunita Puri on living in uncertainty

• Rev. Tom Long on the importance of the rituals for death and dying

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.